MeltingPenguins
MeltingPenguins
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All the 'anti-X' perks in this game are very useless, by all means. They work on paper, but not in practice once the human factor is added in.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2543615#Comment_2543615
Imho basekit Billy was more fun to face pre-overheat. The only thing that needed to go was insta-saw, everything else was wonderful.
with billy (and bubba) they should maybe have it that the insta down only works if you run straight into a hit from a certain distance away (with billy) and have been going for a certain amount of time (with bubba). No more of the mowing people down through BT
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@Kira4Evr said:
I mean. The majority of Deathslinger I get already play in a really scummy way. So it wouldn't make much of a difference for me if this is the case.
yeah, but the minority that tried to play fair might easily be gone for good till the devs do something worthwhile (and there have been good ideas in the community)
And for those saying they didn't nerf hag: just wait, it's likely gonna be her turn soon. Cause we can't have it that her traps mess with survivor's glorious chase-loop-juke-skills, right?
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The game has the mechanics to recognize bad behavior, tell it from regular flashlight use, staying near the hook because you are looking for someone etc.
It's complicated, but the mechanics ARE there. They could be used to discourage and outright punish bad behavior, but that would 1. require cleaning up the code, and 2. Be willing to lose a chunk of the community who'd throw a temper tantrum over these things suddenly being called by what they are, namely bad, skill-deprived nonsense.
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I can tell you what that would make: 2 hour Qs
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@Masterninja said:
Me too, your dead man switch and gear head are not original.
I'm not intending to make them 'original' I'm intending to make them useful and challenging.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2540390#Comment_2540390
Did you mean to quote someone else? I feel like this is only tangentially related to my post.
It was originally related to your post, then I changed a lot of stuff and forgot to remove the quote.
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@JohnWeak said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2540342#Comment_2540342
Toxicity is possible only (mostly) because a game is unbalanced. DbD is full of situations where the balance is off.
- As a killer, camping and hard tunneling a non SWF squad is way too rewarding and bring toxicity
- As a survivor, if you play in SWF, you can be super toxic
Also many perks induce frustration for the other team : DH, DS, Unbreakable, Noed, Devour Hope, hex perks when they are cleansed in 10 seconds etc... All those garbage perks that are just patches to compensate a terrible game design.
Problem is you can't really balance DbD without essentially rebuilding it from the ground up:
Be it rewarding different playstyles against the differetn killers, having dynamic maps, having some perks become basekit, etc.
Instead dbd is looking like a frigging JENGA tower
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2539907#Comment_2539907
"Whenever a survivor complains they get nothing but support."
You have only 22 posts on these forums and it very much shows.
not a good argument, but:
LBR, the entire game seems to get skewed for people who don't want to adjust their playstyles. Survivors more so than killers.
Killers get nerfed to allow survivors to not change their tactics, then killers get some really absurd pseudo-buffs to allow killers to be all played the same with only their abilities being slightly different.
And that is the issue.
When people say 'killer has never been easier' it's usually because they (as survivor) have become utterly predictable in how they'll go about every match, regardless of killer. To the point that even new players who only watched matches before know how to bait Dead Hard etc.
So, of course killer is 'easy' when survivors have only one MO. Easy, but no fun. for either side.
Thus, bhvr listening too much to survivors is not entirely correct. Bhvr catering too much to the wrong kind of survivors however, is.
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@AnneBonny said:
I'd bet there are a lot of secrets in the game people just haven't found. I remember seeing a post about weird black, semi-transparent figures people would just find in-game and I don't think anything ever came of that.
I'd not be surprised if those where connected to the whimpers, sighs, etc you sometimes hear that are NOT other players.
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@Madjura said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2540342#Comment_2540342
VHS might be good, but it also (mainly due to some 'fight' mechanics from what I've seen) seems to have a lot of potential to attract toxicity. This however might draw toxic players away from dbd, which would be good (though I don't wish it on VHS)
The Killer / Monster has fight mechanics in both, so I think you are not talking about that (<-- just explaining how I read your post, if I am wrong please correct me!)
The Survivors / Teens (I think that's what the human team is called in VHS) also kind of have fight mechanics in both games already. In Dbd you have flashlights and stuns, which I think are not actually that different from the weapons in VHS. Of course in VHS if you get hit often enough the game ends which is a major difference but I think it's actually really important that the fight mechanic is how you win in VHS.
What is often considered toxic in Dbd is not exactly flashlights themselves, but spamming the clicking sound. There is no in-game reason to do so, it's done just to annoy the Killer. While in VHS you have a reason to use your fight mechanics, because that is literally how you win (as human) or lose (as monster / killer).
Instead I think the biggest problem will be that VHS is F2P. That (probably) makes it easy to just create a new account when you get banned for being an awful human being (insults / death threats / using hacks). Having to buy the game doesn't stop people from doing this in Dbd for example:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CGVN3BJ95PI5/dbd-rage.png
That's from yesterday. I fear that VHS being F2P is going to attract a lot of those nasty people. Hopefully the report system is actually good so that these kinds of people can be dealt with quickly.
yeah, pretty much what I meant. Like in dbd you already have people who only play to get people to DC, and people who try to purposefully get matched with new players to feel grandios about steamrolling them.
You already (on dbd's killer side) have a lot of gamestart slugging that get's justified as 'legit tactic'... now imagine those mindsets in a game where ganging up on the 'other' side can be justified as 'just playing the game', even though you purposefully seek out less experienced players.
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Question is: Do the licenses really make DbD better (personally I think they are actually hindering DbD due to how the costs/obligations influence how new content is handled)?
VHS might be good, but it also (mainly due to some 'fight' mechanics from what I've seen) seems to have a lot of potential to attract toxicity. This however might draw toxic players away from dbd, which would be good (though I don't wish it on VHS)
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Ignore the brats that cry bloody murder over 'holding a game hostage'. they are pathetic losers who really need to do some soulsearching. 'Cause lbr: had you 'played to win' they would have thrown a tantrum over how bad you are that you need a DC to win blahblahblah
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@DawnMad said:
Well it's actually pretty self-explanatory if you look at what those perks do.
- Borrowed Time so the killer doesn't tunnel/camp your teammates and they can actually play the game.
- Decisive Strike so the killer doesn't tunnel you and you can actually play the game.
- Iron Will so in case you get a Spirit you can actually play the game. Also lets you do some plays you wouldn't be able to do otherwise, which adds to the fun.
- Dead Hard/Sprint Burst because exhaustion perks are both very strong and very fun to have because they lead to longer chases. These aren't as necessary as the others but it's just so set in stone that you should always have one of these at all time.
- Also Unbreakable in case the killer decides to just slug, but it's not a common strategy these days so less people run this perk compared to last year.
If the developers actually gave survivors a way to counter tunneling/camping instead of tying them to perks, people wouldn't have to constantly use the same perks (mainly DS and BT) every game just to play the game.
With the result that things have become so predictable that these perks are just annoying on both sides by now, cause killers either learned to play around them or will just BM making the perks useless and/or you'll have survivors that rely so much on these perks that they don't know what to do when the killer knows how to play around them.
I mean, have you ever seen red ranks panic and start running around like headless chicken and getting into each others way just because you managed to bait a Dead Hard (y'know, the perk some killers cry bloody murder over because it is presumably unbaitable and OP?)
People playing around with builds would make things much more interesting and 'fun' for both sides.
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Has anyone checked if ALL gates have the small extra door in the big gate? Maybe it's not just as plain decorative as we're led to believe
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2537948#Comment_2537948
I mean, he was always being able to shoot through gaps in walls etc., but only some tho, so it was also kinda skill thing, when you need to learn those spots and use them.
yeah. and that was another aspect the shooting from the hip was good for: If you tried to play him with skill (compared to M&A users who barely ever use his ability to begin with) it did reward you for showing skill.
For example: the stairs in The Game. narrow and steep before, now with the cage, but if you got a feeling for them you could land nice trickshots. Or the hole in badham.
It all rewarded quick reactions and practice. Now that aspect is gone because those that complained the loudest consistently refused to learn how to genuinely counter them.
Now you got a situation that will drive away people who tried to play slinger with skill, and bring forth a lot more scum that couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from two feet away, and won't even try because survivors still don't know how to do anything but looping and juking.
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What the map pool needs is a frigging overhaul in total:
The saloon has shown very well that badham does NOT need 5 incarnation (The tiles outside of saloon, gallows and shack are random, occasionally there's a bordello. good luck spotting it), yet the devs keep insisting badham does need 5 nearly identical versions.
autoheaven has a massive lighting problem on any setting not ultra, rendering the maps in some solar-eclipse like light that makes it really hard to see anything (seriously, those are the only maps where I'm grateful for freddy)
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@burt0r said:
To the topic, probably blocked by your teammate or getting pushed away from the sweet spot. They changed something about triggering the pull to compensate for the hit validation if I am not wrong.
It's quite likely the screwed up the general hitboxes of stuff instead of fiddling with the hit validation as such, will bring us more of this fun in the future as well as more uncleansable totems
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2537625#Comment_2537625
Oh no, so you are just saying Deathslinger is add-on dependant killer. Since when is that good thing?
So speed is not an issue for him? Since when. Holding W is a thing and that will work even better with bigger TR, so it definetly is an issue.
Zombies are RNG, but they can be really annoying sometimes, mainly with Ruin.
It's not 3 hits per hook It is 8 extra hits overall, which to me is not an issue. You have faster recovery with it and can still move while using it. He has probably best pallet destroying power in the game, well we have Nurse who just ignores them, but not sure how to count that...
So Nemesis is best at least in something...
Stop trying, new Deathslinger feels really clunky and only way how to make him work is with add-ons, where you just zone survivors ADS walking, so much fun to do...
BTW: I've seen a few complaints about him being able to shoot through stuff now like PH's ability. If that isn't a bug then, gratz, all the people crying bloody murder about being unable to run in diagonal lines instead of 90° angles when running away now nerfed him to a point where he's both pointless yet requires genuinely zero skill. amazing.
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@Madjura said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2536731#Comment_2536731
I don't know if that's included in your "all the pain he went through in his lore and by the devs" but in case not: I want to point out how bad his cosmetics are. I feel like he definitely has the worst selection out of all the Killers.
Especially his default outfit is so bland. He doesn't have interesting features. Make his arm a gun, or his leg, his teeth could be bullet casings, his eyes crosshairs. Go maximun gun. He is just a grandpa with slightly weird eyes and some kind of leg brace.
I think it's okay and even interesting to have a more mundane looking killer but his cosmetics are all just so boring too.
Compare him to Huntress, who is basically just "woman with mask". Visually she is much more interesting and she gets some funky cosmetics too, like that bloody deer / elk outfit. Deathslinger mostly gets different shirts and pants and hat or no hat.
TBH, that steampunk-cyborg look would be boring. The leg brace could be more steampunk-y absolutely (think Svetlana Tsiolkovsky in 'Murdoch Mysteries'), that'd be cool. But otherwise I agree. There's so much they could do with him, but he doesn't even yet have a poncho
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whoever design boontotems like this NEVER tried to get the red glyph challenges done as killer. especially low map pressure killer
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@dednark said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2535266#Comment_2535266
I'll say it again - there is no point to play slinger if he can't quickscope. I can predict with huntress, she has more room for mistake and actually damages survivors if you land a nice shot.
Said it before, saying it again:
Designwise Deathslinger was never meant to be engaged in chases. He's a bounty hunter, so you hide and try to avoid him, sneaking from task to task till you have the means to escape him for good. People get this concept with F13 and other games where being caught be the monster/killer means game over, so why can't they do the same in DbD? There are so many killers because each should call for a variety of playstyles, but instead the killers get nerfed in ways that allows to counter them all in the same way: Engage in a chase and loop and juke while they others do gens.
As long as this mentality prevails in a loud part of the community, and as long as the devs listen to it, we won't get any actual improvement in the game.
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Iri addon, really?
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@Phasmamain said:
Where’s he going?
Well, bhvr doesn't want him, obviously.
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@stvnhthr said:
So Deathslinger can now shoot through walls, pallets, rocks, and most "solid" objects. What objects actually are solid solid where they can stop hatchets and Deathslinger's bolt gun?
is that a bug or did I miss this in the patchnotes? Because, wow.... way to tell those people that tried to show skill with him they are not welcome here.
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@Pirate said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2534379#Comment_2534379
I am sorry but with this mindset people would not build planes because of the fear of falling.
Progress needs sacrifice. Toxic people can be reported or individually muted. Doing nothing will not change anything.
Well spoken, Icarus. Go on, fly.
The easier solution would be to plainly mark the people already in a swf. plain and simple. It's the difference between building a plane cause you have a vague knowledge that planes fly, and building one because you know why and have a decent understanding of aeronautics.
Also, seriously, you name one of the most toxic gamecommunities (CS:GO) as a positive example? Really?
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Good idea, with one fatal flaw:
All forced voicechat would do is open the game up to more toxicity while taking away a lot of accessibility (which the game already has little off)
So. No.
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they can't even give Deathslinger a poncho...
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@R2k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2534098#Comment_2534098
Perk reword won't help him at all. Killers play Deathslinger mainly cause of his power. If anything needs to be changed it's his power and gameplay around it.
His power is/was fine. But as stated, dynamic maps, killer-specific tasks for survivors like finding genparts etc could help greatly.
also: fcl increase the score for evading him all together to encourage stealth. so many complains about him stemmed from 'i can't loop and juke him'
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2534070#Comment_2534070
Bounty system that causes exposed or something else if they don't deal with it would be better since his entire shtick is that he is a bounty hunter.
Or like, change one of his perks to expose everyone within a certain range to the gen if a gen's fixed. I mean, if they can have pinhead block the gen furthest progressed and give trickster something exposing everyone in his tr when he's carrying someone, they can have Gearhead or Dead Man's Switch work like that.
Or change the hellshire iron to everyone within a certain range loses healthstate if you hit a speared survivor from more then 15m (or something like that)
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@ObscurityDragon said:
Ill be honest, i play killer à lot, but Spirit needed à balance for à LONG time and deathslinger some tweaks (even tho i dont like the way they tweaked him)
But they should buff weaker killers and add some objectives for survivors to slow down the game à bit without needing slowdown perks
anything that makes the game more complex would just get the crybabies to go hogwild.
Like, you could OF COURSE have it that you'd automatically have something with slinger that would bar survivors from repairing gens for a bit. Slinger's an engineer fcl, just have it you have to find parts for the gens first before you can repair one.
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@R2k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2533975#Comment_2533975
What do u understand by *more dynamic map*? More vaults and more pallets to play around?
U can buff Slinger by not making him busted. It all depends on how devs want to see him playing. It's all about is his shotgun is main weapon or alternative. Cause if it's main, then add some additional effect to reward being good at aiming. If it's alternative and more for zoning and fear element, then work around TR and movespeed and rework his shotgun into wired traps.
More dynamic maps in Slinger's case would mean e.g. smaller versions of the maps, more drop points, but more means to hide/dodge behind. That way stealth is an option for both sides, you can shoot survivors off of stuff/shoot them from above etc.
All playing into Deathslinger having been a bounty hunter.
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@R2k said:
Probably the main idea is to give both sides fair chances to win without being steamrolled. Spirit was a train that crush average survivors, so they nerfed her. Mb too strong, but something had to be done because everyone hated stand still guess play. Deathslinger hit was huge, but instant aim+shot wasn't actually something interesting to face. I hope they don't revert his change, but buff him in some different way. For ranged killer who could hide his TR it was busted.
I'm currently wondering why do they even think that Nurse needs a buff and whos great idea to give her 3 blinks.
As for survivor side, yes, it's currently relatively easy to escape, but mostly i think that cause efficient survivors with items are very very powerful. Even if u run full meta build 4 man squad, it's incomparable with same squad but with 4 items fully addon equiped.
Buff him in what other ways?
Yes, the spamming was an issue, but everything else people complained about was either due to their unwillingness to alter their playstyle or the dev's unwillingness to give us more dynamic maps.
But now...
- His max range is STILL 18m, while his TR is now about twice that.
- His aiming now needs to go through the full cycle, meaning you can hardly get close enough to get a shot in.
- His basespeed remains unchanged.
You can't 'buff him in other ways' without making him unfun in other ways.
Because now running M&A is pretty much a requirement if you even want to use his power, because the addons that lower his try and increase his speed aren't very common or helpful.
Said it elsewhere, the better way would have been to not change anything about him but making the whirring clearer AND adding a mechanic that would punish faking shots, which is possible.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
They just want the counterplay to be more accessible. I do not agree with it, but I get it.
Let's get philosophical:
Is there counterplay if there's no play at all?
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@Superyoshiegg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2533912#Comment_2533912
There's a difference in wanting something to be changed because it is too powerful and wanting something to be changed because it's not fun to go against and is unhealthy for the game.
Deathslinger falls into the latter category. He's not OP by any means, but he isn't fun to go against for many players because there's a lack of engaging counter play to his ability.
What Bumbus said, will going against him be fun now?
And if you say yes, please explain why.
Playing AS him is already frustrating on the majority of maps when you try to play fair(-ish). Because on e.g. Yamaoka you are just screwed if you don't run the dreadful 'M&A, ruin, undying pop/noed' build or similar. Likewise, on indoormaps you often have to do what looks like ads spamming, but is simply trying to get into a better position for a shot or giving up on a shot as a whole because there's just no clear LoS.
Also, if 'no fun to go against' is a reason, then why does bubba not have an overheat mechanic? why can he still get double-downs through BT with one attack. How is going against Bubba fun? Because all the arguments I heard about that are arguments you can apply to what people complain about with slinger all while slinger does not get rewarded for the shoddy playstyle bubba gets rewarded for.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2533912#Comment_2533912
No I just dislike the #########
Karu, one day they'll do the same and worse to your fav, so you have to decide now if you want to be mocked off the forum then or not
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2533675#Comment_2533675
Maybe they'll get it fixed by live release?
I hope not I don't wanna play on Badham for a long time :)
'maybe they'll get it fixed by live release' Karu, you play this game longer than I, do you really believe that?
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Because unlcleansable totems weren't enough, we've now decided to make killers have the same issue
-someone at bhvr somewhere, maybe if you squint
let's see if they disable badham till approximately new year's eve now
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@KillerMain4Ever said:
Game starts, 30 seconds later a gen pops, what do u do?
Nerf corrupt intervention and reduce the killers base speeds if I'm a dev
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@ElusivePukka said:
Of course they "play the game", but they don't play well and they don't play often enough to have a real grasp on typical play. Their play pool is also both lesser and corrupted, as a lot of their internal play wouldn't be representative of online games moreso than a smallish pool of custom lobbies.
So no. While they obviously do play the game, they don't play the same game the rest of us do.
yeah, that's what I meant. it's a rotten shame
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With how bonkers the game is right now... sometimes you just load into a map and you know you won't have any chance, left alone fun. When it's no use trying, would you rather the killer lets you get some points in, or have them DC so you can have fun
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Are we going to talk about how Kate looks like she's got well...
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@Aneurysm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2529683#Comment_2529683
Slinger was literally my least favourite killer to face even after spirit, hag and twins, but I don't think I'd be opposed to unlimited range if these nerfs go through. I mean it'd be harder to hit across the map than huntress anyway.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2529703#Comment_2529703
Oh stop with the self-pity, I whined about slinger more than any other because he was miserable to face. I'd rather go against spirit or hag and both those killers ######### me up regularly but I eat slingers for breakfast because I genrush outside of chase to get into a better game ASAP and in chase I hold W with objects kept inbetween us. Both counters, both dull as hell. I don't care about escaping I don't want to be able to counter every killer by running around in circles I just want killers I get some input in chase with.
Honestly he currently feels like an extreme version of clown and clown is easy to beat and boring af to verse.
So, are you happy with the changes now? Changes that make him entirely frustrating to play AS?
Good balancing should have made him fun to face for both sides, which these changes don't. And there have been suggestions on how to do it better. But this... They might as well remove him from the game entirely now.
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These changes feel as if picked by throwing darts. By all means, they seem to be there solely to satisfy those very loud survivors that refuse to learn how to counter killers.
It's sad.
Oh, I guess he'll be 'fun' now for the players who get off to looping and juking and holding W to 'win' a chase, but to everyone who remotely knows how to play he'll be just frustrating.
Not to mention the changes to his iri addons really speak to the devs not knowing what they are doing
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2529567#Comment_2529567
You hashtag exposed them! Luckily they do not need to deal with that oppressive mechanic any longer, so who is truly the winner?
Taking into account people already tested and holding W now is a legit counterplay against slinger... do you wanna edit your sarcasm?
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@dallasmedicbag said:
A lot better than slingers spamming the ads on you
you know that 'spamming ads' only 'worked' when you literally stopped running away to press a or d or crouch?
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@Dehitay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2526747#Comment_2526747
His advantage over Huntress is obviously the ability to reload without having to break chase. Also, have people actually paid attention to how long it takes him to fully aim down sights? It's almost negligible if you're not trying to insta shoot. It's definitely way shorter than the Huntress' windup.
He also has the same ability to reload in chase advantage over Trickster. While their windup is closer to being the same, Deathslinger usually gets the hit faster once he has line of sight.
once he has line of sight
and that's one part of the issue. Now getting that will be absurdly hard unless you have a big open map.
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@Dehitay said:
Deathslinger being a stealth ranged killer was something that should have never happened. Now people have gotten spoiled about it. Also, how do you have any practical experience with changes that haven't been made? I don't see any reason people can't hit shots in a chase, loop, or window with the new changes. Especially at windows when there's an animation lock. I actually have more of a problem hitting the survivors when I instantly fire after right clicking. I actually need to spend time aiming in order to hit them.
as someone pointed out in another thread. What is his selling point now? what makes him stand out form other killers? I'm not saying the longer animation is an issue, that on itself would be fine-ish.
Heck, I usually take time to aim as well. But I know when shooting from the hip was the only thing that gives some leverage, and in combo with the other changes it's too much of a nerf
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2526704#Comment_2526704
That's not what this is about.
You complained that Deathslinger's ability now has no situations in which it is usable anymore. I point out that if you can get a hit in with Trickster (which you can because I can and if I can then you definitely can) then you can definitely get a hit in with Deathslinger.
This is a .15 second nerf. Folks are acting like he takes a full second to raise his gun.
'if I can get a hit in with killer X you can get a hit in with killer Y' is a bit of a broken comparison. I've played trickster and deathslinger, and it's quite a difference.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2526700#Comment_2526700
Yes, but Trickster's shots also don't practically guarantee a health state, and at this 'longer range', it's pretty much a guarantee that you won't get any value out at all.
If Trickster can get a hit in, Deathslinger has more of an opportunity to get that same hit in.
Not as much as you might think: The limited range means you miss you'll have to choose between reloading and giving chase. Which with the added delays now means you'll have to pick not just between reloading or giving chase, but reloading and aiming and trying to hit a shot or giving chase.