MeltingPenguins
MeltingPenguins
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@Firellius said:
The time it takes Deathslinger to raise and lower his gun (combined) is still shorter than the time it takes Trickster to ready his knives. If Trickster can get a hit in, so can Deathslinger.
trickster has more than one shot, and it spreads out a bit. AND a longer range. It's not comparable in practice.
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@Phasmamain said:
Just like nurse I imagine they regretted making him so they’ll just keep him this way
well, nurse now gets 3 blinks if i saw it correctly... I expect a lot of Lethal Pursuer Nurses now
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@Phasmamain said:
I think he needs a lullaby but make it only 28M. This means even if he has moniter you still have time to react but it doesn’t effect him too much normally
Mhnn... not a full fledged lullaby like huntress' humming, but a clear (mocking) whistle when you get into range?
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@Aneurysm said:
Okay I don't play slinger but I do play some huntress, they said his time to be fully ADS'd and able to shoot is 0.4 seconds which is not very long. When aiming with huntress survivors usually start weaving back and forth so I wait til they end up back in their original position before releasing, is there some reason slinger can't do that?
miniscule hitbox and limited range. Huntress' hatchets have a hitbox about the same diameter as that of survivors, whereas slinger's is more of a hitDOT. you know the shot that goes over zarina's shoulder in the DLC's trailer? that is how easy missing a shot actually is. Plus he has a max range of 18m and then needs to reload which each time takes about as long as huntress reloading at a locker. while he can move during it, he's also slowed down a little.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
Probably the same situations, it is just way more clunky.
From experience no. Not withstanding people purposefully faking making use of survivors not zigzagging when running, all situations except these 4-5 spots needed shooting from the hip and/or being able to hit quickly and/or a 24m tr to get close enough to land a shot
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@JetTheWaffleCat said:
I think the best thing they could do after the changes is remove the reduced camera sensitivity when aiming. It's the main reason why so many Slingers resorted to quick scoping.
That way he can still kinda flick shots like a Huntress can.
I'm not sure what else they could do with him after this.
naw, the quickscoping DID make use of survivors basically stopping and running in a 90° angle instead of zigzagging when in a chase. the sensitivity doesn't affect anything.
But the shooting from the hip could save his butt in loops and at pallets. Now the only spots where he can actually use his ability are three spots on his map (which is still not available) and potentially one or two on haddonfield depending on gen spawns.
that's it. 4-5 spots across ALL maps.
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@adirgeforthedead said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2526578#Comment_2526578
The way the notes are described it says Decreased the movement speed penalty while aiming down sights and it no way it seems to hint he is getting faster when aiming, but just less slower instead.
yeah. which... You know, on his own map these changes are maybe OK because it's small, open with a lot of points where shots are the go-to? but on literally every other map he's screwed.
@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2526574#Comment_2526574
Any killer that denies a survivor options is considered oppressive by their standards. Even Nemesis despite all the free health states he hands out like candy. Albeit, I feel Nemesis is top tier contrary to most people. But you know, that is not the point. The point is I could say, "survivors would hate a ranged attack even if it did no damage and gave them a speed boost just because vaulting wouldn't be as safe" and it wouldn't be a joke. It would be reality.
seriously. The thing complained about most with Slinger was *checks notes* he's strong in chases and can't be looped.
The 'oh no ALL slingers fake ADS to get close enough for a m1 hit' is NOT slinger's fault. He can only make that distance by faking if survivors stop pressing W and strife with A or D instead of W+A or W+D OR suddenly crouch. faking shots slowed him down, and now he gets punished for survivors not being able to break the line of sight (just wait till they get the devs to bar myers and ghostface from stalking while in a chase)
Basically this nerf rewards everyone who whined about having to change their ridiculous loop-juke-teabag playstyle. Because no quickshots also means no more dragging clickbagging survivors out of the gate the moment the EGC ends and punishing them for their hubris
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@adirgeforthedead said:
One thing that actually surprises me is how some people are celebrating this nerf like he was one of the best Killers in the game when data shows he has a 6% of overall use across all Killers in the game. I'm fully expecting this nerf to reduce that to less than 3%. He wasn't used, he wasn't overpowered and still got this very bad treatment.
But he got a speed boost!
Bloody hell, that's nothing on him unless they actually increase his mobility to that of a non-ranged Killer.
With my rant over, I think the tripwire would probably cause more complaints than he already has, but I agree in all other ideas you presented. I've been wanting to use some perks based in Terror Radius on him, but generally it didn't seem they'd be feasible since he does need the stealth factor to be functional.
I will still give a try to the PTB and provide as much useful feedback in hopes they reconsider some of these changes. I do have a strong feeling it's going to be a rough few hours of gameplay whatsoever.
He'll only get a speed "boost" when aiming. Meaning his base speed is still 110(without bloodlust) but he'll now be marginally less slowed down when aiming, meaning he'll still be slower when aiming?
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Someone please test the following on the PTB:
Can this work for items you picked up, because if yes, then, yeah, it will be a pain, especially in swfs on coms
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@Momentosis said:
On your environment indicator point, I wish the environment decayed near PH.
That'd be nice, but also a strain on hardware if you'd want it to be more than just a texture on the ground that fades after a moment (similar to how blood works in the game)
@Dehitay said:
The terror radius should never be short on a ranged killer. I don't know what the hell they were thinking when it came to Deathslinger. They seemed to fully understand that point when they made Huntress. And what's worse is that his terror radius audio is actually significantly more quiet than average which means he can get even closer before you can truly hear it. It was only natural that M&A would be used with him being perfectly setup for it and essentially turn him into a near stealth ranged killer.
He's a bounty hunter. He was meant to be a stealth ranged killer (limited range killer, mind you, with many more setbacks than huntress or tricksters), which is fine, but M&A takes it too far. His strength is cutting chases short once he gets close enough. That's it. He needs the lower TR because he has literally nothing else. The chain has a max range of 18m just 6m below his TR.
Him being a stealth ranged killer is fine as he has a limited range. with a bigger TR it's unlikely you'll even get the time to aim and shoot, as people will long since be away. With simply barring him from M&A you give him a chance to use his ability. With the planned changes you quite force him to be an M1 killer.
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@ukenicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2525726#Comment_2525726
Okay but I still don't get how it makes sense for a tall, non stealth killer with ranged capabilities to have a reduced terror radius and get the jump on survivors the way that he currently does lol
Why not remove that and improve other areas of him? Again idk why they're nerfing SO much about him but so sorry got having that one gripe with him since it really makes no sense thematically
He's a ranged stealth killer. Thematically he's a bounty hunter, tracking down outlaws etc. So, as he was it made sense that chases are his one strength:
Once he finds you, you're toast. Your best counter isn't trying to run, it's trying to not have him find you in the first place. But people don't want to play stealth (against ONE single killer) they want their chases. So he now gets changed to something that thematically makes no sense for him.
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@ukenicky said:
I'd honestly be fine with just the TR change. I'm not sure why they went so overboard with all these other nerfs like who even was complaining about him lol
That being said good riddance m&a deathslinger
Because that is what people constantly complained about with him: How unfair M&A makes him and how chases with him are so 'boring and unfun' because cutting them short was his one strength.
Now he has nothing going for him anymore. They basically went down the checklist of complains made be people who refuse to change their playstyle when facing him and insisted on one O for ALL killers:
Killers they can enagage in long chases, loop and juke endlessly, who can be genrushed with gen's popping before the first hook etc. And... that's what they got. Wow...
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@Midori_21 said:
So Deathslinger is being nerfed, despite the fact that he has almost no map control. Here's an idea to help him with that since his 1v1 is being nerfed:
What if Deathslinger could use his gun like a sort of grappling hook? Where he can press a different button than normal to shoot at an obstacle, latching onto it and pulling him across the map?
With the collision checks in this game? good luck.
But snark aside, that's not the solution. Just cut the change to his TR and the longer cooldown, but give him the means to trap stuff with tripwire or something
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2523980#Comment_2523980
It's actually 0.4s. The animation isn't any longer than before, it just requires the full animation to play out before you can fire. To get an idea of what it's like, you can jump in game and see how long it takes right now.
The thing is sometimes you need to shoot from the hip (aka shooting before the animation goes through, usually on loops, so... can't we have quick shots when we're within a certain distance?). People abusing ADS to gain ground because survivors try to evade in ways that costs them ground shouldn't be a reason to take away his one strenght.
Now, if you'd build up on him being an engineer and give us the ability to trap pallets and windows with tripwire pulling pallets down and stunning the survivor, respectively having them stumble, then we can talk.
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@Taingaran said:
Will there be positive changes to the harpoon? For example, increasing range and / or durability. Will the Iridescent Coin add-on be updated?
P.S. Also, I do not understand the terror radius of 32 meters with a harpoon range of 18 meters.
For all we know: No changes to the harpoon, really. Because the nerf isn't to make him more 'fun' and/or challenging for both sides, it's there to satisfy people that can't stand the idea of one single killer existing that cuts chases short.
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Let's face it:
The changes to Slinger are there to satisfy the people who keep crying bloody murder because there was one (1) killer out of now 25 who cut chases short. And we can't have that, as chases are THE ONLY FUN THING in the game.
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@vacaman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2523480#Comment_2523480
"No one says DS is an OP killer". If you have a peek in these forums or the reddit you will see a lot of posts crying about this B tier killer. I really don't understand why they are nerfing his chase power wich is the only thing he has going on.
Because there's constantly people complaining how OP he is in chases and how unfair his quickscoping is... because they don't know how to evade him well. These changes made holding W an effective counter... Just wait, with the Pig changes, she'll fairly soon get a nerf that will only activate traps if she's near a survivor exactly when a gen pops and activates the trap manually
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@Bran said:
We get to move faster in exchange for the world's slowest reload that you can't cancel. My man is almost useless at windows now. My man is an m1 killer
funnily enough that is exactly how those that gave him a bad name usually play him. These changes only punish those that tried to play him well
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Going be the updates since.... blight... They will likely push through these whims with minimal changes (if any) and then try to fiddle with it for the next 3-5 chapters because he has become unplayable
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@indieeden7 said:
Can we please just wait and see how he is? For all we know he could move at nearly full speed while aiming.
Going from experience:
That's irrelevant if you take away the quickscoping and give the M1 hits a bigger delay. These two things were (plus his smaller TR) what made him strong in chases.
Now he has nothing, even if the addons bring him up to his full speed (110). Not to mention if you MUST use such addon something is badly designed.
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@calorictrack391 said:
they change his ADS and increase his terror radius and then they think making him walk faster was a good exchange??? they act like the speed will still make him a strong killer but now he really is a weaker versions of huntress
Weaker version of release-state trickster, rather. The increased TR in combo with the still low speed and the aiming delay made holding W a legit and super effective counterplay.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2523590#Comment_2523590
No. Also, being BHVR such a thing would constantly break or have bugs.
Okay, so... let me get this straight:
You really deem Myers with NO TR AT ALL on two tiers fair?
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@Squirrel_Thicc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2523505#Comment_2523505
Well how would you suggest giving deathslinger reliable counter play in chase without removing quick scoping? I can't really think of anything considering that was my main issue with him.
The issue there was more how survivors run away against slinger: Strifing instead of sidestepping and dodging. Also, looking back. The thing they need to change is the mechanical whirring to make that clearer, so survivors know when to wiggle, not strife.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2523345#Comment_2523345
So make it useless on Myers.
yes.
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Define 'healthy'.
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Y'know.... part 1 started out so good... And now this
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@Squirrel_Thicc said:
He's a ranged killer with great anti loop that's why. Same reason huntress and trickster have a massive terror radius/lullaby.
not anymore. The anti-loop came from the quick-shots. While it will still possible to spear a survivor in loops or stop them from reaching one, it will be significantly harder. And on some maps impossible. So, yeah, we might have our first genuine case of 'these changes made the character unplayable'
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@Tr1nity said:
whats a lullaby?
You know the humming you hear when playing against Huntress? That's not her TR, that's a lullaby not affected by any TR addons. Huntress' lullaby is there to give people a heads up they are up against her, as a decent huntress can throw a hatchet from far outside her TR and hit.
Deathslinger however has a maximum range of 18 meters AND has to reel in survivors. With a bigger TR (or a lullaby) plus the delay in aiming now successfully aiming and shooting will become very hard if not impossible on some maps.
Also, taking away the insta shots rewards the BMs of some survivors.
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Said it in other threads, but:
Please just alter M&A to not drop TRs to lower than 20.
The aiming delay is fine for Slinger, but in combo with the other changes this won't work. Talking from experience you sometimes have to be able to hit quickly after cancelling a shot. And in order to even aim and shoot successfully you need to get close enough to survivors, which with an increased TR (addons or not) will be tricky if not impossible on some maps.
The people who gave slinger a bad name ALREADY use him mainly as M1 killer, so these changes won't affect them, but the people who tried to play him genuinely.
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They should just change M&A to be unable to decrease a TR below 20 or 22m.
These changes will likely bring slinger down to release-level trickster in terms of uselessness.
The 'you have to aim for a bit' change itself is fine. but in combo with a bigger TR it won't do anything. If they want people to aim for longer, you have to give them the chance. The main complains about slinger were about people faking shots to gain distance. Which in practice meant that survivors either strife too far to the ide or quick-crouched, actively losing ground.
With these changes Survivors can just press W and get away, because you can't make ground while not aiming, and as aiming takes time they'll easily will be outside your TR by the time you can shoot.
Keep the aiming delay, but throw out the other changes.
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A lullaby would have a similar issue, unless they massively increase the chain length.
If you want people to aim more, you have to either give them the chance to (meaning TR and music stay as it is) or you increase the chain and it's charges.
The main issue IS that people abused M&A (hah!) the same way they abuse it with Myers (eradicating his TR on T2, as stated) to lower the TR below that of the chain length.
Likewise a lot of people complained about ADS and 'faking' which they changed now... But it isn't actually a problem, it's more that people strife too far and quick-dodge, losing ground, instead of breaking the LoS.
By experience the change to ADS might not matter much, but the M1 delay after cancelling paired with to bigger TR might bring him to release-trickster levels of bad
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@Toxicboii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2509598#Comment_2509598
Let's see that get put to the test when it releases. I'm betting if Otzdarva plays it and gives it a good viewing, I'd say lots of Dbd's players will flock over to the game like moths to a brighter flame.
The potential VHS has for DbD might, as cynical as it sounds, be that it might draw away a lot of toxic players due to higher bullying potential. I'd not be surprised if around 2-6 months after vhs' release we'll have threads being all 'I hate swfs but at least in dbd they can't do X '
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@DawnMad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2517429#Comment_2517429
The posts says "before they engage you" which is why I counted these. But fair enough if you don't wanna count them.
might edit the wording when I find a better one
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@DawnMad said:
Some I would like to add;
- Doctor with static blast or screams and madness effect on survivor icons.
- Ghostface if a survivor gets marked.
- Myers when they tier up.
- Clown if you hear screaming and no survivor is in madness, though not 100% of the time.
- Deathslinger with the gun sound, Legion with the mending with no gun sound.
- Oni if he gets his power or gets pallet stunned.
Honorable mention: If a survivor gets one shot without any other indication, it's an Iri Head Huntress. If they scream first it's most likely a clown with Pinky Finger addon.
Eh, as said, they are off the list because while they are very distinct, they do need to be near the survivors to do these things. Near enough to attack.
Doctor is an either or, as he might set off his blast far away from survivors.
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I just hope it's a survivor NOT from modern times
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@Aneurysm said:
You'll generally know it's either legion or slinger when they first encounter a survivor, even if not you.
Spirit, maybe.
But doctor, legion and slinger are killers where they are close enough to hit the moment you know it's them.
I'm rather talking about being able to take precautions as far as possible
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'his ability to bodyblock a window has no counterplay'
you mean you can't see the wobbly air and hear the grunts? Have you tried turning your monitor and sound on?
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@Apexgnifrums said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2516033#Comment_2516033
So spirit mains now, right? Who just want to continue winning by existing (and standing still).
People saying Spirit will be unplayable and that it will be impossible to get any kills etc in right now... What are they basing that statement on exactly?
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2515876#Comment_2515876
The same could be said for people who constantly scream for nerfs...
It wasn't that hard to play against spirit but she couldn't be looped in the typical braindead manner that most player want all games to go so scream for nerfs.
Is she ruined probably not but its a win for cry baby whiners not the game as a whole sadly.
Yeah. At bottom line the loudest complainers are people that want to win by virtue of existing
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@Play2fast4u said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2515863#Comment_2515863
Thank for the help. they just dced
just don't forget it COULD have been a genuine bug that e.g. locked BOTH of you in the pick up/carry animation
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@Bluebird said:
I don't get why everyone says Spirit's dead now? All they did was add counterplay to her, something that ANY good Spirit can negate. This will just weed out the good Spirits from the bad...
...I'm one of the bad Spirits. :(
Keep in mind, whenever people mourn something in the game being 'dead' due to changes, it usually means people are unwilling to actually develop skills with that something
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- record the game if you can.
- it's a game of patience. they might easily be a hacker trying to force a dc to feel good about themselves.
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Spirit has, in a way the same problem as Trickster:
They are BOTH killers in sub-categories that already have killers that exhausted what the category has to offer, at least for the current game mechanics.
Spirit (Invisible/Ghost Killer) came after Wraith and Nurse, thus a lot of the working killer mechanics had already been done. So something new was needed for her, but to balance her out we'd need either new mechanics in the game, or overhaul how her powers work (e.g. give her a longer phasing, and a 'stalking' ability that allows her to get glimpses of nearby survivors if she's looking that direction, either at the cost of her phasing meter or a weaker attack)
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I'd say let them recode the entire thing first (which they are seemingly doing in the background). THEN balance out perks and maps, make them more dynamic for 1:4. and then it will need a long testing phase of how killer abilities synergies or counter each other. Would you want blight to consistently step into trapper's traps? Doctor waking up people from the dreamworld?
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2512718#Comment_2512718
"Skill level" is designed to be hidden so players can't game the system.
"To so many people Grades and SBMM/MMR are the same, when they aren't."
To put it simply, those people are wrong. Correct them, problem solved.
what others and I are trying.
As for the skilllevel:
As said, it is technically possible to prevent 'gaming' the system by using the games mechanics to recognize bad playing. it's fiddly, sure and of course as basically everything that could improve the game it requires ironing out the code, BUT it is possible to have a system in place that can tell between a player playing genuine bad or genuinely losing out on points out of being nice, and one that plays badly to fool the system to get easier matches.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2512463#Comment_2512463
Are you confusing Grades and SBMM?
Grades are literally what you see. 20 levels, 3-5 pips per grade, reset on the 13th of the month. Can't de-grade, can de-pip, earning/losing pips is the same as always. Done.
It's like saying "prove to me what a perk does", when the perk literally tells you.
I get mike, though, and it's the core of the issue:
To so many people Grades and SBMM/MMR are the same, when they aren't.
What might work well would be having the GRADE on the survivor/killer pages etc, and the actual SKILLLEVEL ONLY on the individual character portraits. And heck, maybe even show that. The game apparently CAN tell if you are playing bad on purpose, so trying to de-level could lead to facing players much stronger than you. It's technically possible, and would help with a lot of confusion
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isn't 28k+ BP impossible if you hook only 1 survivor?
Even with chases and a camped sacrifice?
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@miketheratguy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2512252#Comment_2512252
...If I don't know how the grade system works then it hasn't been proven as fact to me, which is why I asked. I would like to know how and when these facts came to light and what they actually say. All I see are people going on about what liars the folks at BHVR are.
That's mostly cause some people confuse the GRADES with the MMR system. The MMR, no one knows for certain how it works (also apparently the codedive that CLAIMS to have found how it works was for the GRADES not the MMR). It might even be that the code for the matchmaking isn't even in the game's code (which IS possible in some cases).
The Grades however are very much
'play a decent game, play fair, and play a lot' That's it to the Grades.
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It would help the meatplant A LOT if they'd turn off tile randomization or at least have it only be minorly random with a clear layout. when the concept art for the rework dropped people where happy about the adventure line, give us back the adventure line, devs (aka a clear path to the stairs and droppoints)
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Thank you, mike.
This matches with other things I have read when it comes to who has good and who has bad experience with MMR:
People who played to their best skills before (whether they were better at stealth or at chases), and who were decently fair to survivors as killer, and who generaly stayed around green ranks seem to have the best average mmr experience in terms of matchmaking. While people who were dead-set on humiliating wins at all costs (including being red ranks come what may) seem to have the worst experience.