Melinko
Melinko
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@Raccoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537819#Comment_3537819
The game counts 4 bleed outs as a win for killer and raises their MMR accordingly.
The game counts any death as a loss for survivor and decreases their MMR.
If the killer bleeds out 4 survivors, what do YOU think happens to the killer's MMR? What do YOU think happens to the survivor's MMR if they die via bleed out?
I think several people have already answered this question for you now.
So, care to revise your standpoint.
Bleedouts don't count for achievements or pips nor do they impact MMR. The MMR side I have seen and I'm not going into too much detail because I don't want to promote this person or these cheats. However, you can find people on youtube who are using cheats in DBD and one of those cheats allows you to see the mystical "MMR" of any player in the lobby. There has been videos of people showing MMR being impacted by kills vs hatch vs bleed out.
The Devs may never comment on the mystery that is MMR, but videos with illegal cheats have shown MMR not being touched by a bleedout.
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@AchlysShadeslayer said:
I mean, aside from balancing changes making it overall more skill based for survivors anyways, there's the whole fact of the game being about the killers. Think about the fact that people get excited for new killers but rarely get hyped for survivors. Survivors are effectively just skins after you prestige them once. No reason to be hyped for a new skin except for it comes with some cool perks sometimes.
And if it does come with a cool perk, it will quickly catch the attention of the killer mains and will promptly be nerfed.
See Made For This and it's upcoming nerf.
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@Raccoon said:
Feel free to tag a developer/mod and ask them if a 4 man bleed out counts as a win for the killer and a loss for the survivors.
This topic may also help:
Just because you wish it wasn't so doesn't mean it isn't true.
Accordiing to Wiki...
yup we are now quoting wikipedia.
Meanwhile on this very forum, there is a thread where it was confirmed by the devs that bleed outs don't count for adepts/challenges. It was changed, because they realized killers were using it as a way to get it done and it wasn't the purpose of the timer.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537781#Comment_3537781
I don't have to hook anyone to win or complete my objective of killing all survivors.
I can win every game by slugging exclusively for bleed out if I really wanted to play that way - I don't, personally, but the option is there as are the mechanics to allow it.
If you're saying a hatch escape is an 'out play,' what would you call preventing said 'out play?'
See this is where you are just completely wrong.
Your objective is not to kill all the survivors. Your objective is to SACRIFICE them to the entity. Can't sacrifice them via bleed out.
The bleed out timer was placed in the game just to prevent killers from being toxic and taking an entire lobby hostage. They get upset, they down all 4 and without the timer they can hold the game hostage forever. The only mistake the Devs made (and one it seems they are starting to change) is awarding anything to killers for bleeding people out. They've already changed it to where you can't complete an adept or any 4 k challenge with a bleed out. Wouldn't be surprised if in time they take away the ability to gain rank or anything from it. Which again, would be the best thing for the game since the objective is to sacrifice the survivors via hook, or use a Mori.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537708#Comment_3537708
Agree.
God forbid the killer try to get a 4k or complete an adept or a challenge or maximize point gain or grade gain or MMR gain...etc
FORBIDDEN.
As I said earlier:
Seems like a lot of people just aren't mentally equipped to play matches to completion.
LOL..
Seems like some people aren't "mentally equipped" to handle someone out-playing them and getting out via the hatch.
So, the survivor should just lay in place and do nothing so you can maximize your points or grade gain... so you play out to completion but you expect them to sit in once place for 4 minutes and go AFK so you can do your thing.
If you want the game played out then play it out. That means complete the killer objective...hook and sacrifice. Not bleed out.
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There is a thread in the bug report about it. Hopefully it gets patched up soon.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537654#Comment_3537654
that is just a straight up bad mentality you have there.
just awful.
How is it awful?
It literally is an achievement and meant to be a challenge. Taking a short cut by slugging is kinda lame and as I said, I'm super glad the devs took away the ability to get the achievement via bleed out. Seems the devs also agree that it isn't appropriate.
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@Raccoon said:
If you see the killer is playing for the 4k and you're concerned about time being wasted, you can always run up to the killer as the last survivor and offer yourself up, ending the game immediately - no hatch, no slugging, no egc.
I don't see this becoming a popular choice, though.
No one should ever reward toxic behavior.
It's why I love that the Devs don't count a bleed out for a 4k achievement. Again, earn it. Play smart. Keep track of your hooks. If you are that desperate for the 4k, hook everyone twice except for one person. Start eliminating those on death hook. When you have two left, down the one that can be saved. Hook that one and you have plenty of time to look.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537589#Comment_3537589
Yeah but you are asking your opponent to trade one inconvenience for another. "Just play another match for the adept rather than try for it in this match." Maybe you can excuse them if they have been hunting for a long time but you have no idea and simply want them to make that trade for your personal convenience.
Why, because I don't want to lay here.
You are right at that point you have already won but there is nothing wrong with going for the 4k, because it's the goal of the game after all. Calling people pathetic because they want to get the max goal, achievement or otherwise is just... well... an example of toxicity.
Just play another match for adept... you mean like the survivors that have to do that because they get tunneled out? Or make the final trade on a face camping killer and lose it even though they played a great match?
It's an achievement. It's supposed to be difficult. Slugging is just trying to take a short cut to the achievement.
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The real blessing to any adjustment to MFT is that it will make it that much easier to pick out the speed cheats. I played against a Mikaela running made for this, and anytime she would vault or turn a corner she would cover such distance. I had "I'm all ears" equipped and watched her sprint burst away after the vault (while injured so no exhaustion perks).
It's sad and having seen videos on Youtube of streamers running the cheats and knowing press all you have to do is press"x" and you get your bonus speed.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537591#Comment_3537591
One would think that the Entity would really view bleedouts as a waste and punish rather than reward the killer for them.
In terms of lore, it would certainly seem that way. The entity punished the Trapper for not wanting to participate, seems there should be punishment for failing to sacrifice.
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I'd like to see the Devs change the way the game ends on a bleedout.
The killer is supposed to sacrifice the survivors to the entity, hence why you need a special item or situation to actual kill a survivor. Letting them bleed out is a failure of that objective as they die and have not been sacrificed.
Perhaps an animation of them turning into an angel and escaping the trial that way and reward with escape like bloodpoints. When the bleedout option hurts the killer side and helps the survivor side, there would be no more slugging and that would be healthy for the game.
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@indieeden7 said:
At that point, they do it to try and prevent you from getting points. If you're going to make them sit there fir 4 minutes, they're going to try and make sure you don't get many points for it.
@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/390815/slugging-cannot-be-that-toxic
A lot depends on context, but often times what you're describing is a "if you're gonna waste my time, I'm gonna waste yours" mentality from the slugged surv.
It's one thing if you down the next to last survivor and the last one is right there to chase, but if the killer downs you and then scours the entire map for minutes because they are thirsty for that 4K, it becomes kind of an FU situation.
I usually won't move, but if I know the other surv is no where near and the killer goes off on an expedition to find them, I will often just crawl to the most well hidden spot I can find and then go get a snack or something.
Why? Because slugging for the 4K like that is lame as hell.
All of this.
Sure, you down me while I'm getting healed and go after the healer, I get that. However, if you down me and run off to find the last other survivor that tells me you just don't know what it feels like to get a 4k. So, yeah I'm going to crawl somewhere and waste your time. I can always tell when I'm playing against a good/skilled killer. They down and they hook, usually not the first hook they see, you can tell they are planning to not leave deadzones.
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@Crowman said:
FNaF is pretty huge for what it is. There's a movie coming out later this year for the franchise.
No reason to avoid the license completely when it's likely just a small vocal minority hating on the idea of FNaF coming to DBD.
Biggest thing is this, if you don't like the DLC then don't buy it.
I had no interest in Alien, haven't bought it, never plan too.
It really isn't a big deal if they add a chapter you hate.
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@Snowball777 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536394#Comment_3536394
They need to remove self unhook attempts, it's just bad for the game and besides Deliverance it is almost never worth doing in terms of actually playing the game.
Rework slippery meat, rework luck based items/addons and stop letting people just toaster bath themselves on hook because they get pissy.
They are no closer to removing the unhook attempts then they are to removing tunneling and camping or fixing MMR, which if they removed tunneling, camping and fixed the MMR there would be much less of the opt out on hooks happening.
Everyone wants to remove the undesired behavior but it doesn't actually fix any of the real problems and the reason why a large majority of the opt outs happen. You remove hook opt outs without fixing the real issues and people will just find new ways to get themselves eliminated from a match.
And yes, I know some people will still opt out when they see Nurse or Blight or even Xeno now, but to fix some issues with the game would eliminate most of the opt outs
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@CatnipLove said:
If I die but my teammates survive it, was a good game.
If a killer goofs off for a couple of seconds cos I threw a pebble at them, and then I die, it was a good game.
If I boop a snoot, it's an amazing game and I get clips to share with the We Love Pig Fan Club.
If you can't have a good time without winning then there's something wrong on your end. Fortunately most players don't feel the same way that you do.
The part at the end about "if you can't have a good time without winning" is literally the entire problem with things currently.
Tunneling and slugging and camping. All hated but not against the rules and the only defense you ever hear from killers about those strats "It's the easiest way to win" "I let them bleed out so I wouldn't give them hatch."
The entire issue with the game is it has become so competitive. So much so that saying "gg" now upsets some people.
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@Krazzik said:
Ultimate Weapon is literally THE strongest information perk on every killer, to the extent it makes most other information perks completely useless because you'd almost always be much better off just running UW.
Not to mention that Oni is completely busted with it AND Dead Man's Switch and Hexes in general are especially strong with it as well.
As mentioned before it's an on-demand bubble around you that makes survivors scream, requires only a locker-check and has a relatively short cooldown for how amazing the effect is. It's also ONLY counterable by running an otherwise-useless perk that actually makes you WEAKER at certain things.
Exactly.
Compare it to other perks, say "I'm All Ears" from Ghostface. That only triggers if a survivor fast vaults and then it only shows the aura of one survivor. Oh, and it has a CD of 40 seconds so it already triggers less often then Ultimate Weapon.
The CD needs to be in the 60 to 90 second range at least with how strong it is.
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@jamally093 said:
Listen I still dislike Wraith you can say "he's just an m1 killer" all you want but here's the problem I have HE'S CLOAKING not the power itself I like it but how the game registers it. So I can have a stand off at a pallet simple I slam it down he gets stunned while cloaked end of story. He's uncloaking more then likely trying to fool me into pre-dropping okay I'll wait done this before he's full uncloaked I see the smoke effect he gets when he fully uncloaks and so I drop it and what's that...oh the game registered that he never uncloaked because he let go a nonexistent inch from a full bar so nope doesn't count. I basically have no way of slow him down/stunning him because it's either see him break a pallet extremely quickly while cloaked or basically accept having to take a hit no matter what. So how can I counter him because you can say use windows and I try all it does it gets me killed faster.
I've tried looping and out running him but guess what he hugs me so if he uncloaks that speed boost causes him to get a massive boost to me also yes I've tried using windows while he has the speed boost guess what hit detection won't allow that.
If he hugs you, like stays on you while cloaked and waits to uncloak? I mean... keep running, keep looping around things forcing him to stay in cloak and on you while your team does gens??? If he wastes time on you "hugging you" and not uncloaking to hit you, then he is losing.
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@OtakaChan said:
We prob won't see this till Xmas or New Year's lol
of 2028
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Anytime someone starts a post off with "This is not OP" it pretty much tells me the opposite. It screams that this is a perk that suddenly has turned into something that the poster realizes they have a serious advantage with and don't want to see it changed.
Same thing all the Survivor mains screamed about MFT or the original Dead Hard.
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@mca240 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3535761#Comment_3535761
People pay for Prime to get the rewards amongst other things. So no, it isn’t free.
Also, how long have you been playing the game? Take a look at their older rewards (hint: one whole new exclusive outfit per month)
I get it, you have to pay for Amazon Prime, but when I said free I feel like most people had Amazon Prime for Music and Video or even free shipping before the Prime Game thing was even a thing.
I literally just logged into Prime and was offered the reward never even knew about this, of course I avoided the forums till recently.
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I feel like certain killers attract a certain type of player and that has resulted in people hating certain killers not for the killer themself but the people that tend to play them.
For me, it is Trickster. I've never met anyone that plays Trickster that doesn't come off like a pre-teen that got banned from Fortnite.
And I've certainly seen a few Wesker players that are kinda...not toxic but certainly annoying. When that happens over and over, people start to dislike the character as they anticipate the match is going to be miserable.
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So wait... you get a free reward and you are upset that it isn't good enough?
I play on Steam, I've never gotten a reward for having the game other than being able to play it.
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I watched a bot self heal during end game collapse. One gate was open and two people were out. The bot could have gone for the open gate or even tried to open the other. Instead, it did the self heal till the timer ran out and death lol
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It isn't hidden at end game.
But again, the easy fix to all this is simple. Your perks and items are locked once you enter the lobby. Both sides see the other or neither side sees the other (perks and items locked so no reason for anyone to see anyone actual). If you leave the lobby, it is treated like a DC.
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@SleepyLunatic said:
I only play solo survivor and definitely understrand the frustration if you get terrible mates but i still make it out most of the time.
Its important to understand WHY you lose.
Many solo players instantly assume that the killer side must be op when in truth it msot of the time just their mates being extremly inefficent.
So many times the killer instantly starts chasing me and he goes after me for like a minute or two and my mates still havent even touched a gen for some stupid reason.
This is the reason solo q is so bad.
MMR is certainly an issue as you'll have a pretty big skill gap at times or hours played gap.
The other thing I've noticed in solo cue that is specific to what you just said about people not touching gens. The killer comes and finds you and most of the time survivors are spawning somewhere close to each other. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I have certainly had times in solo cue where I start a gen and the Nic Cage in the group gets chased and runs the killer directly too the gen I'm working on to drop aggro.
My suggestion is if the killer is chasing you first, run across the map. Get far enough away (yes you will probably take a hit doing this) that your team doesn't hear the terror radius and they will feel safer coming out to work on a gen. That has worked for me in several matches. Let's the rest of the team know I'm not going to dump the killer on them.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3534561#Comment_3534561
Survivors playing against Blight: "what a dogshit OP killer I'd rather play against 20 skull merchant than this"
Survivors playing against SM: "what a boring trash killer I'd rather play against 15 BMing xenos than this"
Survivors playing against Xeno: "what an overtuned BS killer I'd rather playing against 12 blights with alch ring than this"
I can say this with 100% honesty. I've defended Nurse on here, I've defended pretty much any killer on here. I will not defend Xeno.
With any killer in this game, if you have a really skilled player (even a skilled Trapper) you are going to feel pressured and they are going to make the game a challenge as it should be.
With Xeno, it's run the right two add-ons to make the turrets irrelevant and then you have baby Xenos getting 4k's without a challenge.
That's a problem. I get it, killer mains are like "yay we can face roll" but that isn't healthy for the game. It used to be if you faced a skilled killer you were going to get smoked. This gave reason to practice and pick a main killer and really grind on them. Xeno doesn't take a grind, it just takes having the right combo and just kitty trot around the map with tail strikes. How is that fun?? Where is the challenge?
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Eh, there is a simple solution. If every single survivor that is camped/tunnel and all their teammates report the killer that does it for say "griefing" that killer's account will end up being reported so often that the devs probably take notice and probably give a 24 hour timeout to start. It continues, might be a little longer. Again this would take the entire community to get together and start doing but it would certainly end the camp and tunnel days of the game and then nothing has to change from a development side.
I think if camping and tunneling was the exception not the rule, people would be less bothered by it. However, at this point in the game it is shocking when there isn't a tunnel or a camp. Hell, I saw a Xeno face camp to preserve a 3 k because the xeno can apparently fully block the hook. It is becoming a problem.
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@LordGlint said:
Did you crawl to a corner to hide? I feel like if you put yourself there so the killer can't find you or so you were too far from the closest hook... that's kinda on you, at least in part.
Last time I got bled out (over the weekend), I literally crawled to a hook. Killer never came back to where I was, just stayed with the other two that he downed after me.
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If they do nothing else, if they don't change add-ons or the tail or whatever, this needs to be done:
Xeno can not be allowed to play any indoor map, be it PD, Game or Silent Hill. The turrets are absolutely miserable to set up in there and the AoE is too small with all the walls. I'm not sure how they can do it, but there has to be some way to classify Xeno as a type of killer and not allow them to be on those maps.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533295#Comment_3533295
Yet, it is how the game is played because of their bad design. If you want to get a 4k, you have an incentive to slug to reduce the game to a lucky 50/50. However, the game doesn't give you a tool to finding a slugged survivors after, so if they want to waste your time and your points as killer, they totally can. This would be somehow fixed by adding the endgame mori, but the devs haven't mentioned it in a long time.
It does give you a tool for finding a slugged survivor, there is actually a perk that you can run to find them called Deerstalker.
When Nic Cage was released every killer was running this to find the plot twist.
As for "waste your time and points as killer" - So, it's totally fine for you to waste the survivor's time for 4 minutes as they bleed out so you can get a 4 k and run around and hunt for the last survivor but if they crawl away because you refused to hook them, they are the bad person??? Nope... this is why the change is perfectly fine. You want to slug and hunt safely without the risk of a hatch, then there should be a consequence.
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@Viktor1853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533416#Comment_3533416
Xenomorph are fine if you know how to use the flame turrets
No, this is just wrong.
Xenomorph is fine, if you are in a group of people that all know how to use turrets and the killer isn't running the add-ons that allow them to basically ignore the turrets.
Again, if you are talking about SWFs vs Xeno then sure there is balance and no issue but if you are talking solo cue where one person wasting a turret on bad placement or not knowing to use them tanks the match... not so much balance.
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@Steakdabait said:
im like 3/7 or something. Xeno isn't op but the power is just not fun to play against
That last part is where I am at.
This is a game, this is supposed to be fun. I play the game to take a break from stress and such in the real world at work.
This game is no longer fun 7 of 10 matches since it will be Xeno.
So, now I play less and have to find a different game for fun. I still wish the Devs would give the survivors the chance to see the killer just like the killer sees the survivors. Perks are locked for both sides before you see who you are up against (so all the people saying perks can hard counter certain killers) but it would give people a choice. I think it would be an interesting experiment much like the hiding prestige experiment. Be interesting to see how the player base as a whole feels about certain killers. If I'm a developer of this game, I would want to see what killer is dodged constantly and try to figure out why.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533314#Comment_3533314
Pretty easy fix actually, just make it so when you get into a game, you cant back out. That way killers cant lobby shop, and back fills cant happen either
Killer DC rate/AFK rate would sky rocket if they couldn't lobby shop.
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@BlueRose said:
Last night as Xeno I had 3 p100 and one 57. It wasnt a very fun match at all and I was competely owned. The match was competely one sided. I got one single hook in the whole match.
That is easy to explain. The killrate for Xeno is high, you probably had match after match of 3 or 4 k and your MMR went up. So you got placed correctly in a higher MMR and got smoked by an organized group. Xeno is only balanced against SWF's it eats solo cue up like it is nothing since there is no communication on turrets and placing them.
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@biggybiggybiggens said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530623#Comment_3530623
BHVR have never been experts in this area unfortunately. They should really put more work into skill shot attacks and not just on the Killer side. Keep testing it over and over until every angle is perfect on both sides. Then you have the 'each individual person's latency' problem and that's a whole other thing they still can't seem to fix.
Which is why this killer should never have been given this ability lol.
They can't even fix the vaults but now we have a killer that shoots it's tail through solid rock to hit people.
I get the idea they were going for but master the small stuff (vaults) and parts of the core gameplay before adding a killer with a gimmick that becomes a problem because of failings on development side.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3532103#Comment_3532103
1. The adept challenge incentives you to slug, since it is a required 4 kill. If you don't, then you're put into a coin flip, which is not efficient for the purpose of this challenge.
2. "Simply not slugging" does not contemplate end game situations where exit gates are already opened, which was what happened in my case. In that case, I was required to slug because otherwise the survivors would get distance and escape.
3. If there is a hook dead zone, it is beyond the killer whether or not the survivors bleeds out, since survivors can just keep going to that spot which makes you unable to hook them.
4. If BHVR wanted to just punish killers who let survivors bleed out on purpose, then they would have also give the Deerstalker effect at the end of the game, in case some survivors goes to a corner to be petty.
Adept is meant to be a challenge, if it was easy it wouldn't be an achievement.
It means you have to probably lose a few to figure out the best plan to be able to get all 4 people dead on hooks or simply bring a Mori which gives you the achievement but again, you have to get all 4 on hooks to do which goes against the "slug" mentality.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3531789#Comment_3531789
You can see turrets as survivor. No coordination required. All thats needed are semi competent teammates.
And before you start, i refuse to believe that "all survivors" are bad. Otherwise the kill rates would be through the roof.
I'm curious if the opt out on hook shows up as a normal kill or something different. If it is a normal kill, I would imagine the Xeno kill rate is spiking rather quickly.
The hook opt outs now will not only be annoying to people in the lobby but will end up resulting in a killer nerf.
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Shouldn't get the tail attack.
Myers in his Tier 1 mode is held back a ton because of his lack of lunge and speed.
Giving a character undetectable with no sacrifice isn't good balance. Undetectable and walking upright, no tail and no fear of flames is an interesting idea.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3532090#Comment_3532090
Yes, it is very smart to make survivors who already lost the game and just want to be petty feel rewarded to sabotage the killer.
Because there is no way to avoid a bleed out??? Don't slug, down, then hook. It really is that simple.
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If they changed it to where bleeding someone out doesn't give an achievement, it might be the smartest change they've ever made.
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It depends on the killer. Some killers in a 3 v 1 situation at 4 gens you can make a match out of it, still probably will lose but might as well try and have a match.
Other killers, as was stated above, I too will just stay on the gen and force the killer to make a decision. Some killers you just know they are going to be super excited for the easy 4k. Had a Trickster (no surprise at all) get an opt out on hook at 5 gens, then chase and down the next person who also opts out. I sat on the gen and was like I sense. Dude knives me down and slugs to find the last survivor who was hiding in a locker. Good times.
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Well it is past the point of complaints at this point.
Yet to finish a match against the crawling tank without 2 bots minimium.
The DC rate is getting crazy high against Alien. If that trend continues, have to imagine the Devs are going to step in sooner then expected with a nerf.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530727#Comment_3530727
Day 1 complaints don’t deserve to be heard
Made For This complaints were on the test server, day 1, and day whatever we are on now.
Sometimes, things are actually broken and people can see it and don't want a huge advantage to one side of the scale. Survivor mains don't want MFT touched, just like Killer mains don't want Alien touched, both sides are wrong. Alien was okay on the test server but what they brought to live is not okay.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529802#Comment_3529802
You do realize that the turrets don't instantly get the xeno out of runner mode right? Its fast but not instant.
Don't expect instant, but when the killer can ignore the turret and get downs while running a loop, that is a problem.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529748#Comment_3529748
Ehh I've seen people able to constantly have the turrets up constantly meanwhile able to get gens done. I think the flame turrets are in a good spot where they are.
Last 10 matches (all against Xeno..what a shock) and it's been the same thing. Running higher add-ons that make the turrets almost useless against them. I watched one stay in crawler while on fire and just down a person at a loop with the tail.
If the turrets are supposed to be the defense for the survivors, they need to re-think what they've done with the add-ons that make them ineffective. They already made them more cumbersome to deal with then the EMPs which is a good thing, but then adding to it by giving add-ons against them was a bad move.
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The flame turrets really do need a little more aggression.
It's very easy for the killer to stay in crawler mode and be hit by one. The slow down of carrying one and setting it up is already a hindereing effect to the survivors. Just seems dumb to slowly carry it to a crossroad, set it and then loop the killer to it only to have the killer run through it, on fire and still tail down you like nothing happened.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
The new vaults are pretty sad, but last patch's vaults were extremely obnoxious and should stay gone. They need to find a middleground.
After multiple years of vaults being so bad that you could land, take 2 steps and still get hit, I think the killer side could have dealt with the vaults favoring survivors for more than a few weeks.
It's not something that is an easy fix obviously or it would have been addressed.
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Candyman would be amazing.
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@Raconteurminator said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526914#Comment_3526914
1) You're not making an argument, you're repeating what you previously said. You're not psychic - you don't know what motivates people, what they're thinking. Yet you speak so matter-of-factly. You're taking how you play and deciding anyone that plays differently must be wrong. You're happy to settle for less than is asked of you, so anyone that doesn't must have an ego problem. They don't.
2) As for my last point, I did not butcher anything. You're pushing for the happiness of the many at the expense of the few because you only have concern for the many. Because you are one of the many. It was an intentional phrase to illustrate a point you clearly missed - you're so hellbent on making the many happy, you've actually forgotten the few are also real people, or simply just didn't care in the first place - you don't care about one half of the player-base, and that's the problem. Everyone that's ever advocated Killer players be punished for playing the game has done that - you're no different. Utilitarian ideals don't exclude harming people, they simply advocate for the greatest amount of good for the greatest number of people. Utilitarian sociopathy is the greatest amount of good for the greatest number of people -- always the side the person making the argument happens to be on -- while being acutely aware that you're achieving that good by directly harming others (see: your what's good for business argument - Survivor players create more income so the needs of Killer players are a distant secondary concern). That may even be the intention in some instances.
If you paid attention, in the slightest, Killer players aren't exactly having fun either - maybe even less. If you'd been more keen to sit and think about what the words meant in the context they were used rather than try to gotcha me with the googled definitions of both words (utilitarian certainly has more definitions and nuance), I wouldn't have needed to explain anything. Also, no, I didn't say hooking was the actual point of the game - I said killing the Survivors was the objective, which it is. We're not talking lore reasons, we're talking mechanics and win conditions. Hooking, mori, bleeding out, time over; they all achieve that. I didn't advocate making any of those choices on anyone else's behalf.
3) And yes, forcing Killers to hook Survivors will hurt the game. Taking autonomy away from players will do exactly that: where they can stand and how long, who they can chase and when, when they have to hook. Yes-no, stop-go, red-light-green-light. If you want to play against someone locked into a binary series of choices, go start a petition for Killer bots. No human actually wants to play that game.
This isn't philosophy or world history.
This is a business.
More players will be upset if they don't fix the issue than the tiny handful of killer mains that will be upset they have to use hooks.
Think the devs don't know that, look at what happened to gen regression and look at the fact that the Devs have said they plan to install an anti-camp mechanic. An anti-tunnel and anti-slug will certainly be on the way as well at the current rate.
The world evolves, so do games. Players have to change their playstyle all the time. Any good long running game does this by keeping the largest portion of it's client base happy. Sure a few killer mains will be upset and leave, but there will always be the players who play both sides and don't care about these changes and new players who come in and only know these changes.