MDRSan
MDRSan
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@Vishlumbra said:
Clearly you haven’t played killer enough then. Once you leave the comfort zone mmr things become rough. Anyone who plays killer enough can testify for this.
Talking to survivors or forum players is a waste of time, that’s why I direct my criticism directly to BH.DBD: The “horror game” where the most iconic killers play by a rule book, get penalized for killing so survivors don’t feel bad.
Changing a winning formula is most of the time a dumb move. Game needs balance. 95% of the killer roster needs buffs and they keep implementing nerfs that factually make the mid / low level killers unplayable. This is like changing the flavor of coke. Historically dumb move.
Fact: Good survivors have everything to win every match. This is not a debate. Proven by:
1- Competitive. Every match is played the same way. Face camp and tunnel is needed even with top tier killers.
2- In pro play they have to implement nerfs to survivors so killers have a chance unless they are playing nurse or blight.
3- 90-95% of the killers are considered weak and more like a novelty with a lower tier power compared to the S tier killers. Game is not balanced correctly.
4- Survivors lose games when their team is just chilling, messing around or new to the game. If all 3 survivors are playing to their objective while the fourth is getting chased, they will complete 3 gens in the first 2 minutes of a game. There’s a plethora of second chance perks and now they get base kit overpowered perks allowing even more efficiency.
5- BH doesn’t play their own game. The laziness is astonishing. A huge metal bar during the whole walking dead patch proves they didn’t play a single game before release, creating the worst patch to ever go live with game breaking bugs.
6- Adding the “remove this rules” in custom games proves they know that when survivors play with half a brain cell it would kill competitive.Really this is not a healthy update. It’s a mess guided by feelings instead of what’s possible to achieve, without a sense of progress, players quit. My god.
You realize there's also plenty of banned killer perks, killer add-ons, killer tactics, and even whole killers in competitive DBD leagues, yes? Both sides get things turned off in competitive DBD.
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@CleanseThis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992852#Comment_3992852
Oh thats rich… Let's handicap you as killer by imposing rules you have to keep track of or be punished and limiting your agency as killer but then turn around and tell you that "yOU hAVe plentY oF oPtionS". lol
These mechanics don't block you from tunneling if you still wish to do so. They make it less efficient so that it is no longer the optimal tactic in most situations. Your agency is not limited.
This isn't like blocking a vault the survivor has jumped too many times in a chase. You can still do whatever you want - it just doesn't help you win in as many scenarios as before and can now be detrimental. That's the point.
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Sadako doesn't need to tunnel, kill survivors immediately when their Condemned meter fills up, or Inexorable Stare them to death before she has gotten 6 hooks in order to win or have fun. I don't know where people keep getting this idea that she is broken if she's discouraged from using her mori early on.
What if the survivors know how to counter her power - does she just lose those games since she can't build up condemned stacks early in the game? Of course not.
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I do think a perk that makes crouching in and within x meters of a powered exit gate cause the croucher to stumble and make themselves exposed and hindered for a few seconds would be hilarious. They got so caught up in the moment, I guess they just let their guard down and started falling all over themselves.
If I wanted to be really petty, several crouches in a row would trigger a celebratory couple second mini-bloodwarden since who would want to leave mid-celebration?
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For your trapper scenario, I would either slug the freshly unhooked person who stepped in a trap and move on, commit to the lithe user regardless of the distance they made, or go pressure somewhere else. It depends on whose positions I know and what mood I'm in. If it's later in the match I might just re-hook them anyway - I don't care if they get increased gen speed or locked regression on 1 remaining gen.
For Sadako I would hook to lock in condemned stacks. I would wait until I have 6 hooks before I start killing people. I would make sure the first person I condemn isn't the last person I hooked. It's how I usually play her anyway right now except I usually go off gens completed instead of hook count to determine if I'm being too sweaty and should dial it back.
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I would agree at least when it comes to releasing things to the PTB for testing. They should never feel like they can't even test something because the community freaks out over an outline of what they're planning to test.
If I were to suggest something to them it would be to reinforce and communicate that the PTB isn't a fast track to live - it's literally for testing and gathering data and feedback from actual played matches.
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@Skeleton23 said:
There literally the same format.
Tunneling is Killers doing there Objective fast
Gen Rushing is Survivors doing there Objective fast
The problem with Gen Rushing is that depending on the map, Killer and player Skill in a match determines the match results.
With tunneling no longer being able to be done (depends on the patch notes Numbers) will make matches much more difficult. Gen Rushing should be next on the anti list QOL because now there will barely be any way to counter play it sense killers can't rush there Objective anymore.
It amazes me how both sides argue over the same topic of Rushing Objective when Tunneling and Gen Rushing can basically counter both playstyles.
It only depends on how the match plays out.
I do think this Patch is BS because some Killers can't use there power the way it was intended to be used because of the 6 hook requirement. Like there are Killers who have abilities that kill survivors instantly regardless being hooked or not. Meaning them Killers will never be able to be played properly unless these changes are Ajusted for them killers.
There's differences between survivors and gens you're ignoring. Just a few off the top of my head:
- There are 4 survivors and 5 generators.
- A generator is an inanimate game construct that can't have a frustrating gameplay experience. A generator didn't load into a match hoping to accomplish something other than being tunneled out within the first few minutes.
- Killers argue that they should be entitled to skip hooking survivors if they have a base-kit mori mechanic. Survivors aren't arguing they should be able to skip generators and just go straight to having the exit gates powered.
- Killers can win the game without tunneling. Survivors can't win the game without completing generators.
Killers can still rush through the survivors as a group. What this patch does is make it less desirable to rush through a single survivor.
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I'm kind of hoping she doesn't just look like a normal person most of the time. I'm not a big fan of killers that look like they could just be some random like Wesker or Skull Merchant. That and that she walks like a normal person and not Skull Merchant with her weird glide.
The skinless face in the trailer was kind of neat. I'm curious to see if they do the floating head with dangling organs thing - I feel like that's the sort of thing that works in stories or illustration but maybe looks a little goofy in motion. Seems neat though.
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992534#Comment_3992534
And? That’s always been the game. Learn it. Learn to chase. Hold the tunnel. Buy your team time. If an opponent on equal skill tunnels you: take the fight. Fight back. Especially when a bad killer tunnels a bad survivor — that survivor learns a lot about the map, the resources they have, and how to actually use them.
That’s literally how everyone started out in DBD. Back then I even ran the old Object of Obsession for a long time — where killer and survivor could see each other permanently, no cooldown. And yup, I went down. I went down a lot. But I kept going down until I finally learned how not to, how to extend a chase, how to improve.
Getting better is part of PvP games. Staying stuck in the ‘but that’s not fair’ mindset, refusing to improve, and then demanding changes from your own unwillingness to learn
Getting better is part of PvP games. Staying stuck in the ‘but that’s not fair’ mindset, refusing to improve, and then demanding changes from your own unwillingness to learn
Maybe killer mains might want to try considering that advice when it comes to this update.
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@drag27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992118#Comment_3992118
I mean look at all the comments by these survivors mains, their not even making an effort to see things from our light but like you said most (if not all) never touched killer and if they have it was only at low mmr. trolling or entitled responses. It would be hilarious watching them all lose their minds if the devs decide not to go live with this 🤣
You mean if the tantrums and collective pity parties killer mains are all throwing each other based on untested text in a forum post gets us sent back to the same lame survivor experience we've had for years now? You finding that funny is exactly why tunneling can't just be fixed with a carrot, it needs a stick too.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992329#Comment_3992329
I don't think, at this point, there's any way that it works out well.
BHVR is breaking some longstanding rules of the asym genre. We'll see how it works out for them. I'm thinking it's going to tank survivor queues, but we'll see. Or, you will. I'll be skonging.
You keep threatening that and yet here you are, on these forums.
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@Slan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992203#Comment_3992203
BBQ, when expected, can be played around. The point of it is survivors being caught offguard. Now they will always be on guard because they know you see them. And it's a fact. Once a survivor team, especially a swf, deduces BBQ is in the trial, they play around it. And the aura reading is easily avoided. And not only by being in lockers, but also behind generators to conceal their auras. So they do not need to leave a gen to hide the aura.
Haste for free with a killer like Sadako is useless. But for a nurse or a blight does make a little bit of a difference. Depends once more on the numbers, but if it ends up being like devour haste...it will be nothing. To use de pop you actually need to arrive before the gen is done, and for killers with less movility (all that ain't blight, ghoul, nurse) that is going to be very difficult if there is a large distance.
And also, based on your last comment, you seem to be turning this into a "us vs them". Refrain from it. I am only exposing facts, not complaining. Yes, killers get those things not for free, because to earn them you gotta play a certain way and hook in a certain order, and even then, these things have the potential to be of little to no use based on how efficient survivors are countering them with strategy and coordination.
I run BBQ on most of my killers - it is extraordinarily rare that I don't get at least 1 aura for each hook, typically due to range. You can usually see survivor auras around generators - it doesn't completely conceal them most of the time. The likelihood that they'll either have the perfect angle on a gen to hide behind or be in range of a locker to slowly enter is just not that high across most hookings for the vast majority of matches. For those that run BBQ, now you have a free perk slot.
They're explicitly turning the bonus haste down on highly mobile killers. I doubt they would bother introducing this new tuning method for something as weak as 5%. Aside from that, calling any haste useless is a bit of an exaggeration. Sadako does hold w from time to time.
Yes, Pop might not be useful in every situation - that doesn't make it worthless. The reason it has a high pick rate as a perk is that it's generally useful. For those that do run it - now you have a free perk slot to run whatever you want.
The whole point of these new mechanics is to reduce the efficiency of tunneling so yes, the idea is to change player behavior. It would be kind of pointless if it wasn't. It does it in a way that is harmless and offers benefits to anyone that doesn't tunnel.
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@Slan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992020#Comment_3992020
The problem is that SWFs are sooo coordinated that they will find a bypass for thiese things. They always do. The moment someone goes down, the survivors will go into a locker or hide behind a gen to prevent their auras from being seen. Because now they know you can see them, and they don't have to speculate. The pop will for sure be 10% or less, knowing BHVR. The fact they hid the numbers is a bit…concerning to say the least. And haste will surely be around 5%, which weaker killers won't be able to use. Pig with 5% haste is not a big deal. Nurse with it is. And the pop won't do much if the gen is far unless the killer is one with high mobility. The bonus now becomes a useless feature since it has counter. And every value you can get out of the BBQ and aura reading, basekit or with perks, after hooking has the potential to be negated or drastically reduced.
The problem is that SWFs are sooo coordinated that they will find a bypass for thiese things. They always do. The moment someone goes down, the survivors will go into a locker or hide behind a gen to prevent their auras from being seen. Because now they know you can see them, and they don't have to speculate.
Then they're not on gens. As someone who plays Dredge and uses Darkness Revealed when I play ranged killers that reload from lockers I can say from my experience that there aren't that many lockers on maps and if there are then survivors aren't spending that much time near them. If you disagree - see how it plays out on the PTB. I would be shocked if survivors were consistently and successfully locker dodging the aura read. It would have to be their #1 priority above gens and they're not getting gens done very quickly if that's the case.
The pop will for sure be 10% or less, knowing BHVR. The fact they hid the numbers is a bit…concerning to say the least.
Numbers might be part of what they're wanting to test on the PTB. Why should they release numbers before the testing even starts? It's not like the doomposting is actually going to be affected by numbers.
And haste will surely be around 5%, which weaker killers won't be able to use. Pig with 5% haste is not a big deal. Nurse with it is. And the pop won't do much if the gen is far unless the killer is one with high mobility. The bonus now becomes a useless feature since it has counter. And every value you can get out of the BBQ and aura reading, basekit or with perks, after hooking has the potential to be negated or drastically reduced.
Killers are getting haste for free, Pop for free, and BBQ for free and still they're complaining. Literally none of the downsides of these new mechanics come into effect if a killer just doesn't tunnel - all they get are buffs. The complaint of "They're not getting strong enough buffs." is a little premature.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992092#Comment_3992092
Oh wow. Are you okay?
Let me break it down for you, math style.
If you tunnel someone out at 5 gens, that's 450 seconds of gen repairs that survivors will have to do while in a 3v1.
If you tunnel someone out at 2 gens, that's 180 seconds of gen repairs that survivors will have to do while in a 3v1.
Sure, you could technically get the bonus for LONGER, but by the time you finish FIVE gens in a 3v1… let's just say it's no longer a 3v1. Now it's a 1v1. Or a 2v1 if you're lucky and someone was cracked in chase. Or a 0v1 because you didn't even get all the gens done. Either way, the killer is almost certainly going to win the game. Remember, the killer wins the game if they get a second survivor out and down a third. Or they can try to slug their way to a snowball victory if the survivors are injured.
But finishing TWO gens before the killer gets someone else out or snowballs his way to a win? That's doable. You might lose a guy, but you can probably get all three survivors out. Play it safe, pre-run early, and split up on gens. Make him commit to a chase, hope that he picks your best looper, and slam the remaining two gens. If he gets the chased survivor on hook, that's fine. Open the gates and body block train your way to the W, or tie if you're unlucky.
You can keep insulting me all you like, it really doesn't change the fact that the math is on my side here.
Let's give it a value so we can actually math it out. Let's say they give 5% faster gen progress in this new mechanic.
If you tunnel no one out, 5 gens take 450 seconds.
If you tunnel someone out at 5 gens, those gens will take 22.5 seconds less at 427.5 total seconds instead of their normal 450 seconds.
If you tunnel someone out at 2 gens, those gens will take 9 seconds less at 171 total seconds instead of their normal 180 seconds.
9 < 22.5, therefore your statement of "Lol. This isn't about hard tunneling and you know it. These nerfs hit just as hard at 2 gens as they do at 5." is provably false.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992087#Comment_3992087
Lol. You keep trying to use this "gotcha," no matter how many times I clearly explain it to you. Maybe I should use smaller words?
Against good survivors, mid killers need help. Perks no help. Perks go boom! Daddy Behavior make perks baaaaad. But game too fast. Mid killers not get downs fast. Mid killers get survivor out of game when gens go pop! Mid killer now get in trouble when they do that, which makes mid killers sad. Now mid killers no want to play no more. Mid killers still beat bad survivors. But lose when survivors no play like potatoes.
Did that help, or should I start drawing pictures?
No gotcha - you're the one who keeps positing that some killers can't win without tunneling and then pretending like that's not what you said.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992068#Comment_3992068
Do you want me to actually explain it to you? Okay.
If I'm playing freaking Nurse and tunnel someone out at 5 gens, I'm not going to give two rats about not having gen regression or the survivors having boosted gen progression. The game is as good as done. It's all over but the crying. You're not going to come back in that scenario.
But if I'm playing Dredge, trying to hold a shaky three gen with 1 or 2 gens left, and I'm forced to try to get someone out of the game or lose… well then that lack of regression is probably going to mean that at least 2 of the three remaining survivors escape. Because by the time I get the survivor out, those gens will probably be nearly done. My only hope to not outright lose is a quick chase and hope the survivors mess up the endgame save
That wasn't your argument - how about we compare oranges to oranges.
If you're playing a Dredge and tunnel someone out a 5 gens then that's 5 gens of faster repair speed that you can't regress.
If you're playing a Dredge and tunnel someone out at 2 gens then that's 2 gens of faster repair speed that you can't regress.
5 gens going n% faster is more impactful than 2 gens going n% faster in a match.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992075#Comment_3992075
The irony. Instead, you want them to balance around 20k hour Blights and 20 hour solo queue.
Are you suggesting every killer except cracked blights going against baby survivors need to tunnel to win? That's pretty ridiculous.
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@Blueberry said:
The average player in dbd is very bad. This is why kill rates mean very little. They aren’t very representative of balance. The only reason you don’t see win rates as high on survivor is because of those same bad teammates pulling you down. IE if you made a 4 man swf you’d see the same win rates.
The context of wins for either side is more important than just if they won or lost. This is how statistics get misinterpreted.
Sure, and Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
They have to balance the game around the player base they have and the way matches actually play out in reality - not some theoretical edge case where all the survivors are perfect and the killers mediocre in every match. Saying a kill isn't a kill is ridiculous - the killer still won and the survivor still lost.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992056#Comment_3992056
Lol. This isn't about hard tunneling and you know it. These nerfs hit just as hard at 2 gens as they do at 5.
I'd say faster gen progression and blocking regression hits quite a bit harder at 5 gens than it does at 2 or 1. In what way could it possibly not?
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Interestingly, we've hit the "bargaining" stage.
Denial and anger is still where most of the community still seems to be currently though.
Never thought I'd see people going through the "stages of grief" over hard tunneling, but here we are.
And it's not even out yet - it's like pre-grief brought on by pre-mass-hysteria.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991988#Comment_3991988
That's funny. I see a lot more bully squad content creators than slugging content creators. When will those bully squad creators be getting their nerfs? Oh, wait! I forgot, they're actually getting BUFFED this patch. Because killers have to worry about survivor satisfaction, and survivors are allowed to be as mean spirited and toxic as they want.
Are you incapable of getting downs or wining games without tunneling or slugging longer than 90 seconds? Because this patch really doesn't affect you in any negative way unless you tunnel or slug longer than 90 seconds.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991939#Comment_3991939
No, they haven't. They've said the opposite. Mandy said about a month ago that if killers start losing games, they'll eventually find themselves at their "appropriate" mmr after losing enough times in a row.
You're misinterpreting her words.
She was talking about individual killer players, not all killers in aggregate. Just because one killer player has a lower skill level doesn't mean that killer type or all killers need a buff. If they see an aggregated drop in kill levels across a particular killer type or all killers then that's something they can act on.
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The killer's objective is to kill survivors, not tunnel a single person out. You can kill the survivors without tunneling.
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Of course not. The doom posting is ridiculous.
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I doubt it does but IF it does, by the time any stacking would be in play you're down to 2 survivors. Kill 1 more and it's a hatch game - you're not losing.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990876#Comment_3990876
"Hell, I usually run Pop & BBQ - now I have 2 free perk slots to fill with whatever the hell I want"
I dont run Pop but I use BBQ on Freddy because nothing sucks more than wasting a teleport on a gen that no one is touching lol I'm thrilled about having this basekit so I can use something else
One of the things that fills me with the most glee in this game is faking a teleport and watching them immediately fail a skill check on the gen. I have no idea why that's so amusing to me.
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I just hope they lock Evil Incarnate. I didn't suffer through old Myers and a sea of locker hopping, jerk survivors to have my achievement trivialized by some base-kit mori.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990941#Comment_3990941
Actually, they buffed Fog Vials from PTB to Live. Base obscurity went from like 30% to 40% or something. The Iri addon got nerfed, to 10%, but the total of base + iri from PTB to Live was, iirc, a two percent nerf.
There was no functional difference of PTB to Live with base FV + Iri, and the base FV were much stronger than PTB.
The radius was nerfed as well.
See, I tried to save you some time but I guess you needed to type the longer version of 'but they didn't nerf it enough' yourself.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990803#Comment_3990803
Broken survivor stuff doesn't get modified from PTB to live lol.
Provably false - they literally nerfed values on Fog Vials from PTB to live. Then killers whined more and they nerfed them again. And then again.
Now they're just blood web trash no one wants and killers still whine about them as if anyone's actually using them anymore.
Let me go ahead and predict your response: 'but they didn't nerf them enouuuuugh!'
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990586#Comment_3990586
Until a survivor bringing a luck offering 'goes next" or you are playing a killer with an alternate killing method like Pig or Sadako and you end up getting punished for a death before you got a full 6 hooks.
They could easily add a condition that kills only count for this mechanic if done because of mori or freshly hooked when on death hook. For all we know it already does that - it's not even out for testing yet.
Alternate killing methods don't entitle a killer to anything. No one is meant to completely ignore the hook mechanic and if you do in this new system it's still not the end of the world - the survivors still need to do gens and I doubt the buff is going to be massive enough to compensate for there being a whole person missing.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990768#Comment_3990768
Lol. "Buffs." Unless it's like 40% regression on kick and a minute of 25% Haste, those "buffs" are useless for most of the cast.
Casual killers aren't going to keep playing if they get punished for playing the game. Whether you think that's "right" or not, it's just the facts. They're already struggling as it is. Haven't you seen all the posts about how killer is feeling "harder" and "less fun?" Killer queues have dropped dramatically since the anniversary, and I'm seeing BP bonuses for killers quite often. If this update goes live, the script is going to flip. You'll see large swathes of survivors sitting in queues for a long time, only to get yet another sweat lord Nurse or Blight.
Lol. "Buffs." Unless it's like 40% regression on kick and a minute of 25% Haste, those "buffs" are useless for most of the cast.
At those numbers it sounds like you want a buff that will just win you the game. Base-Kit Pop Goes the Weasel, BBQ & Chili, and haste on hook aren't meaningless no matter how much you turn your nose up at them. Hell, I usually run Pop & BBQ - now I have 2 free perk slots to fill with whatever the hell I want.
Casual killers aren't going to keep playing if they get punished for playing the game. Whether you think that's "right" or not, it's just the facts. They're already struggling as it is. Haven't you seen all the posts about how killer is feeling "harder" and "less fun?"
I've seen some posters parroting the party line after some content creators and influencers posted their 'killer is hard' complaint videos (usually over gameplay footage of them continuing their win streaks on the very killers they're complaining are weak). This doesn't negate my own personal experience of killer not being that hard where 3K + hatch and 4Ks are the majority of matches.
Plus, haven't you seen all the posts about how tunneling is unfun?
Killer queues have dropped dramatically since the anniversary, and I'm seeing BP bonuses for killers quite often.
I've seen killer queue with a blood point bonus ONE time right after TWD's release and it has since gone back to a permanent BP bonus for survivor and long queues for killer in all but a couple of hours in the middle of the night. Killer queues are miserable - not 2v8 miserable, but still longer than I'm usually willing to wait for.
If this update goes live, the script is going to flip. You'll see large swathes of survivors sitting in queues for a long time, only to get yet another sweat lord Nurse or Blight.
I disagree. I think that's little more than fearmongering designed to protect a tactic that killers have come to overemploy to the detriment of the game.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990644#Comment_3990644
That ain't good...
I'm kind of surprised it works that way but I do think it's the sort of thing we need to see play out in some matches to see how ridiculous it is in reality. I don't know if in an actual match you're going to need to keep the same survivor down on the ground multiple times for longer than their recovery timer that time + 60 seconds overall (since recovery takes 30 seconds and runs concurrent to the pick yourself up timer: 90-30=60)
Also, mechanics are comparatively hard to change but numbers aren't. If 90 seconds seems too short they could easily up it based on PTB data.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990313#Comment_3990313
Here's a fun fact for you… it's better for game health for there to be too many killers than too many survivors.
You need four survivors for each killer player, which means, optimally, there should be a 80-20 ratio. Everyone gets a match, and queues are quick for everyone.
Now, let's say there's too many killers, and it turns into a 75-25 ratio. That means that out of the 100 players, 6 killer players will have to wait for a match, while all 75 survivors and 19 of the killers get a match right away. 6 players will have to wait until more survivors come available.
But what if there's not enough killers, and we have an 85-15 ratio? Well, then 15 survivors will have to wait for a match, while 60 survivors and all the killers get a quick match.
So while being short on survivors isn't the best outcome, being short on killers means more than double the amount of people will have to wait.
And I could easily see 20-30% of killer mains dropping the game over these changes. Especially casual players using mid to low tier killers. I know, because I'm one of them. My top 3 killers are Knight, Xeno and Spirit, and only one of those killers will be viable come Tuesday.
And I could easily see 20-30% of killer mains dropping the game over these changes. Especially casual players using mid to low tier killers.
Or, they could try not relying on tunnelling for cheap, easy wins at the expense of someone else's gameplay experience. That's always an option. Heck - now killers are even going to get buffs for not doing that. Give it a try!
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@drag27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990586#Comment_3990586
thats not as much of a flex as you think it is, cringe if anything
What part exactly?
If you're going to troll or rage bait, at least try and make a modicum of sense.
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@drag27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990567#Comment_3990567
survivors do the same thing whenever killer buffs come out. we'd be less worry if they reverted some gen regression perks back like Pop or pain res otherwise we have no way to pressure, the fact that you dont realise that is whats horrifying.
I play killer - I don't tunnel, I don't slug, and I do just fine in my matches. This patch is nothing but buffs to me. I going to get free BBQ & Chili, Pop goes the Weasel, and temporary haste for playing no differently than I usually do.
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@SoGo said:
I feel like they shouldnt do the passive recovery.
Especially not the speed up with time version.
Personally I feel like the passive recovery is fine - having to M1 the whole time is just kind of annoying and pointless.
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@drag27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990539#Comment_3990539
he says it'll save the game, not if a lot of killers stop playing if this goes live.
It's not even on the PTB and we don't have concrete numbers for anything yet. Right now it's just killers whining about how they're worried changes to make tunnelling and slugging less effective are actually going to make tunnelling and slugging less effective. Gasp - the horror!
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@KingOfGhost said:
With the new patch we can all see that the devs eant to force a play style to the killers. Now i don't say if it's good or bad but should the same be happening to the survivors as well.
For example if 2 gens are completed with in 60 seconds of each other all gen are block and can't be repaired for some time.
Or
After the survivors vault a window in a chase the killer gain bamboozle for that window
Do generators get frustrated when they're tunneled out of the game? Did a generator load up into the match thinking they'd do something other than get worked on? Is fairness important to a generator's experience in game?
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990120#Comment_3990120
… Right anyway the devs literally stated that the game is biased in favor of killers and they aim for a 60% kill rate minimum. The can bee seen as balanced in the simple fact that any killers who didin't rely on tunneling now get basekit buffs like extra gen regression, free bbq, and other stuff. Simple fact is that any killers who were actually good at the game will likely do better and any that never actually had any skill and just tunneled will be left in the dust and be forced to actually learn how to play the game.
I don't think I'm some amazing killer player or anything but the vast majority of my matches are either 3K + hatch, or 4Ks. I intentionally don't tunnel and don't really resort to slugging unless I've got a swarm of flashlight wielding bees around me. This patch is nothing but killer buffs for me.
- Free BBQ & Chili
- Free haste after hooking someone
- Free Pop goes the Weasel
Survivors get nothing because I don't tunnel or slug them.
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@FabledSpider said:
Ok so my mechanic to help me find other survivors is undone by using lockers… and the only thing that shows me who I have hooked before is a hud symbol that indicates the previous survivor I have hooked. So I will query this.
Survivor A gets hooked
Survivor B gets hooked
Survivor A screws up and gets hooked again (not tunnelling because it was their mistake and you hooked someone in between), They get annoyed and give up, now there are 4-5 gens that I cannot kick at all.
Also why do miserable survivor games get developer intervention, but there is a trend at the moment (bully builds on new killers) and they aren’t doing anything about this to solve miserable killer games.
If every survivor goes into a locker every time you hook someone then no one is on a gen are they? Use that haste buff you got from your hook and start patrolling. I think you're overestimating the number of survivors that will notice you're hooking someone, think to hide in a locker, and have easy access to a locker right when they need it though.
If you 'unintentionally' tunnel someone out early on you've still turned the match into a 1v3. The match isn't exactly going in the survivor's favor.
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@Jay_K said:
- If a Survivor dies before 6 total hook states, all remaining Survivors gain a repair speed bonus for the rest of the Trial.
- If the Survivor that was last hooked is Sacrificed or Killed, generators cannot be regressed or blocked.
These 2 things are going to ruin the game for killersBefore anyone wants to comment "just don't tunnel" think about it. Killers are now FORCED to play by the survivor handbook and hand free wins effectively to them.
If you kill a survivor too fast then boom free gen progression for everyone. This means your damned if you do and damned if you don't. you kill someone because its the optimal play at the time then woo you got a kill but now all gens are gonna fly a little faster on top of whatever buffs it already has.
Then the way this reads sais that every time you kill a survivor and you find a gen near by thats nearly complete then uh uh uh you can't regress that gen to hopefully stop it popping meaning you have to just sit and wait for whatever timer BHVR decides to put on this (because in classic form no figures are released) and while your waiting other gens are flying.
Now im not saying that tunneling is fine and i agree with the masses that any killer who goes into a game and hardcore tunnels a survivor needs to maybe find another game to play because clearly this isn't the game for them but i can tell you from experience that sometimes you end up tunneling someone just because its the person you find. Not because you have gone out of your way to hunt them down or because you have gone back to hook to tunnel them. Its just the natural way that game has gone..
On top of this killers can no longer see the hook state of the survivors. So if your not taking notes you could end up tunneling without realizing. Even now I will hook someone and think Damn how are they dead what happened. not realizing i had multi hooked them because im just chasing whoever is around.
So please behaviour you need to do 2 things.Firstly you need to give more information because right now assumptions have to be made, and they are made based on previous changes made
secondly more thought needs to go into anti tunnel because based on the dev update these will really harm killers who don't tunnel intentionally and suffer from survivor induced tunneling.If you kill a survivor too fast then boom free gen progression for everyone. This means your damned if you do and damned if you don't. you kill someone because its the optimal play at the time then woo you got a kill but now all gens are gonna fly a little faster on top of whatever buffs it already has.
Well there's your problem right there. It's no longer the optimal play - this is by design.
Now im not saying that tunneling is fine and i agree with the masses that any killer who goes into a game and hardcore tunnels a survivor needs to maybe find another game to play because clearly this isn't the game for them but i can tell you from experience that sometimes you end up tunneling someone just because its the person you find. Not because you have gone out of your way to hunt them down or because you have gone back to hook to tunnel them. Its just the natural way that game has gone..
Killers get free aura reads now whenever they hook someone other than the person they last hooked. It's now very easy to find anyone else to chase.
On top of this killers can no longer see the hook state of the survivors. So if your not taking notes you could end up tunneling without realizing.
They're introducing an indicator that shows you the last person you hooked. Tunneling without realizing will be impossible unless you're just ignoring the status indicators on the HUD.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989979#Comment_3989979
by not finding another survivor before running into the death hook survivor?
why would you instantly assume malice?
They're also handing out a free aura read that works similar to BBQ & Chili - I find it unlikely they'll frequently be unable to find another survivor. Stealth or being able to otherwise hide is facing a pretty strong nerf in this patch.
Aside from that though, intent doesn't really matter - it isn't less frustrating for the survivor if they didn't mean it maliciously.
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@tuttoinunavolta said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989867#Comment_3989867
- Am I complaining about gens being completed too fast? No, I've never done it either, what are you on?
- Did you read my post or did you come on here just to flame? My post is almost solely about killers who have alternate kill conditions like Sadako, getting a Condemned kill before 6 hooks could happen (and happens!) very frequently even when the match has been going on for a while. I would get punished for playing HER POWER well even if the match is reaching its end.
The further in a match you trigger the proposed effects the less impactful they are. Faster gen progression and not being able to trigger blocks or regression means a lot more at 5 gens than it does at 1 or 2. The proposed changes simply won't be as impactful in matches that have been going on for a while.
Being discouraged from focusing on and killing a single person early in the match - yeah, that's kind of the point. Do you think it's somehow less of a crappy experience for the player you're doing it to just because you're playing a Sadako and not a Billy?
Sadako is not incapable of getting 6 hooks in a match. She doesn't need to kill the person she just hooked in order to win. These are things you might WANT to do, but lets not confuse the two.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989867#Comment_3989867
I think you answered your second hypothetical with your first question.
Killers typically tunnel one out to make the game last longer in order to get the other 3 survivors.Tunneling one out right off the bat has nothing to do with making a match last longer and everything to do with drastically swinging the balance of a match to the killer's favor. No one tunnels to extend a match - they tunnel to win.
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Killers: Matches go by too fast - why are the survivors rushing gens?
Also Killers: Why am I being punished for eliminating players from matches as quickly as humanly possible?! I want my win to happen fast!
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988790#Comment_3988790
I don't think that's necessarily true, I think Legion could fit into an entirely different niche- the counterplay to Legion is only not to heal because there's no other killer and because that lowers the effectiveness of Feral Frenzy. They can undo the heal quickly, so in the mode with no other risk it makes sense not to heal against them.
If, though, we're meant to understand Legion as explicitly an injury machine that sets up for the other killer, and if the only barrier to undoing their threat is the very accessible healing (both because there are more players to heal you and because Medic is very strong), then the counterplay to a Legion team would be to heal.
Losing Mending would put them in this position. Healing wouldn't be that much of a timesink and 2v8 goes faster anyway, so the point of Legion would be to set up for your teammate and the counterplay to Legion would be to undo that setup.
I don't think that's necessarily true, I think Legion
couldfit into an entirely different niche- the counterplay to Legion is only not to healbecausethere's no other killer andbecausethat lowers the effectiveness of Feral Frenzy. They can undo the heal quickly, so in the mode with no other risk it makes sense not to heal against them.I think your analysis of the counterplay to Legion is misinterpreting its relationship to there not being another killer. The counterplay being not to heal is because there's no point - they're just going to quickly injure you again making it a waste of time. It doesn't necessarily lower the effectiveness of Feral Frenzy because full health or half health - in both cases the survivor ends up wounded with deep wounds.
Now add another killer. Healing is still a waste of time - they're still just going to injure you again in the exact same amount of time as before. All you've done is made the counterplay a lose-lose situation. Heal and a few moments later you're back in deep wounds making all that time spent pointless. Don't heal and best case everyone's playing like they have no mither, worst case you're feeding an Oni.
The problem with Legion is they're built to quickly ping pong across a lot of survivors and wound them. This makes them disproportionately more powerful as a team mate in 2v8 than other killers.
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I get where you're coming from but my recent experience in 2v8 where I've accidentally hatcheted my partner Nemesis's zombies as knee jerk reactions more times than I'd care to admit I think we might be surprised how well it works.
The trick would be to center the play around the initial confusion. It wouldn't hold up for long but it would buy you a moment or two of not realizing what's up.
That said - it would be a miserable experience for survivors. Like what would the counterplay be for anyone not on voice comms - just avoid your teammates at all costs?
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@SadLegion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987586#Comment_3987586
You want less players to queue up for the killer role so you can have better queue times.
Yes, queue times, you know that primary thing everyone was complaining about, which wasnt fixed by this new band-aid system. Instead it was made worse for a trade-off being able to play survivor role. Stop pretending like people who wanted didnt have an ability to play killer previously. They did and things established with lesser killer q times than they are now. Significantly lesser. Lesser = better. Your third point doesnt matter since its totally made-up and doesnt represent how things end up in the game.
But yeah im an awful egoistic guy who wants everything better for myself, you got me!!
Ok, lets try some basic numbers and logic.
100 killers and 400 survivors queue up on the old system where they just have to sit and wait.
vs.
100 killers and 400 survivors queue up on the new system and 20 killers play a couple survivor matches while they wait.
Which scenario do you think will have a lower queue time for the killers? Obviously the second one. The play while you wait system is adding to the pool of survivors, thereby getting killers in matches faster.
The only things that will get you the result you want are to either lower the number of killers or increase the number of survivors. Play while you wait increases the number of survivors.
But yeah im an awful egoistic guy who wants everything better for myself, you got me!!
At least you're able to admit that now so I feel we've made some progress.
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@SadLegion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987575#Comment_3987575
The alternative for people who wanted to play killer was there all the time. It was to PLAY KILLER and have SIGNIFICANTLY LESS QUEUE TIME. Its that simple. That system balanced itself out better than the current band-aid fix. And thats the end of the story. But you can keep twisting my words to make me look "bad" instead of arguing all you want.
You are simply incorrect.
- Right now people who want to play killer are queuing up to play killer.
- Right now some of those people are using the play while you wait system to not just sit and stare at a queue screen.
- Right now, if those people were still queuing but weren't helping to compensate for high killer queue times by playing survivor while they wait then you'd have - say it with me now - LONGER QUEUE TIMES THAN YOU ALREADY HAVE.
The only balancing mechanic a plain queue system has is being frustrating enough to get people to just quit. Period.
I don't need to twist your words - your meaning is clear. You want less players to queue up for the killer role so you can have better queue times. My issue is that you're trying to disguise it as a complaint about a system that actually makes the game better for many people.
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If it's the same video I'm thinking of they never go on to elaborate on why that is a bad thing in the first place. They mention a few examples of features that were incorrectly implemented in the past and have since been corrected but that's with the free version - they didn't need to upgrade to fix anything. They don't actually mention any limitations the free version has that would otherwise be present in the paid.