MDRSan
MDRSan
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@Rogue11 said:
And they all conveniently forget to mention the main building nerfs, maps shrunk, and jungle gym tiles replaced with new trash loops. All changes to help killers but the only thing that is ever mentioned is the few extra rock loops. Who wants to bet they remove the extra pallets and keep all the other map nerfs? Another QoL for killers only!
Pretty much. They've made maps the size of postage stamps compared to what they used to be like, handed out aura reads like candy, brightened everything, swapped a good amount of jungle gyms with unsafe trash, made generators spawn in the middle of nothing but maybe a tee-pee or a couple of barrels, and bunched all survivor spawns together in a spot so predictable that lethal pursuer is purely redundant and only useful for aura time extension.
Some killers just forgot there was a point where they had do something more than hold W for a 10 to 20 seconds to get a kill.
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Look at that - we're already ahead of schedule. I thought it would at least be another day or 2 of coordinated YouTube releases parroting the same complaint before it spilled over onto the forums.
I've seen a thread or 2 but thought there was still a bit more time before everyone jumped on the echo chamber bandwagon.
Killers are still winning matches, just like before, pallets are fine.
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@Rickprado said:
You are saying like all content creators are people who just play killer without ever touching survivor ever, LOL.
The pallet density wasn't just Quality of Life, it was a straight up buff in maps that didn't need that. Adding more pallets to already strong maps like Crotus Asylum is madness as the map were strong enough.
Now maps like Haddonfield did deserved that change. But applying that to almost every realm in the game was a lazy solution and created more problems than it solved.
Who cares if the phrase 'quality of life' is used or not? That's labeling or phrasing used on a patch note - it doesn't mean anything. The change is the change regardless of what they call it. What if they didn't call it quality of life - would that make any difference whatsoever? AFK crows don't have anything to do with being AFK anymore.
Eliminating dead zones - yes, that is one thing they mentioned. That doesn't mean it's the exhaustive list of things they intended to affect with this change. They are not obligated to give us the entire string of reasoning behind every change they make.
The only point these 2 'arguments' make is that they should release the most dry patch notes possible with zero explanation for anything because unless they can completely explain everything then the community is going to use their incompleteness against them in meaningless arguments. I mention both these things together because they're another thing YouTubers are bring up as 'gotchas' that actually mean nothing.
Who says certain maps are strong enough - a Ghostface playing on them? Great - does the community pinky promise to never bring a Blight, Kaneki, or Krasue to them?
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I played one match with him just to see what the changes felt like a day or so ago. It was kind of slow going at the start of the match until I just stopped stalking altogether and stayed in pursuit mode. I'm not practiced with the new version of him so with time this might change but my initial impression is that using his power is frequently less effective than just running around and hitting people twice.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011341#Comment_4011341
Yes. What matters is the immediacy of them. Allowing someone to DC from a match and instantly requeue encourages this lobby-shopping style of gameplay. The penalties getting aggressively worse is meaningless if the first ones are free because these people are avoiding reaching those stages. 20 matches is not that much for someone whose main or only game is DbD. The first few DCs are the crucial ones to target. There needs to be an immediate penalty that delays the requeuing. Even if it is just short like 60 seconds or a couple of minutes.
When DCing and requeuing is quicker than naturally playing out the rest of the match, people have no incentive to stay. If anything (or nothing) happens that they dislike? They just DC and find a match they deem "better" (which is an abitrary metric these days but still) in record time
Both of the examples you give are shorter than playing out the rest of the match and re-queuing (1-2 minutes). I suspect if those were actually implemented on first disconnect you would then make the same argument arguing they should be made higher.
You ignore why there aren't immediate punishments for someone's first or second DC - DCs aren't always intentional. There being no way to tell the difference between someone's internet having a momentary issue and someone rage quitting means there needs to be some leniency or else you end up punishing too many people for something that is out of their control.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011351#Comment_4011351
I promise you, if the devs are smart and work with competent people within the dbd community they can make everything bar soft griefing able to penalized.
If people over 50 hours of game time are overall going down in less than 15 seconds reputedly, suspension. This negates griefing by walking up to the killer or suicidal body blocking while protecting new players. It would record that behavior over many games as to not hurt people having a funny interaction with the killer every 5 games. Same with afking, the system can be tuned to after a player has a decent chunk of time for them not to afk under hook without suspension. Luck offerings can be joutright removed. There are ways and they are truly necessary for this games long term health.
As others have said, survivors griefing each other actually leads to a repetitious cycle of survivors getting more frustrated. You can address the issues but the mentality will remain, one that's been around for a decade. With the communities current mind set you could outright remove tunneling, camping, slugging, every S tier killer and add the ability for survivors to ban 1 killer each, there would still be a 15%+ dc/suicide rate. So both things need to be addressed.
They don't log enough to know a killer is cheating when they're flying around the map and downing everyone within a few seconds of each other without the players taking video evidence and submitting it to them via YouTube. I sincerely doubt they have the tools to tell the difference between legitimate griefing and just having a bad match and I doubt they're willing to take the patch or 2's worth of dev time to get there.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010809#Comment_4010809
Because the tunneling reduction PTB had a very large amount of video evidence of people getting punished unfairly, because the PTB changes actually were giving an extreme amount of false positives.
See how that works? People were super easily able to get video evidence of the tunneling reduction problems, because it was happening often enough to be a problem.
There wasn't a single false positive on the PTB - a false positive would be if generators were blocked from regression if a killer killed a survivor at 9 hooks or if it mistakenly gave endurance to someone other than the person just unhooked. No, it did what the patch notes said it was going to do. If you're going to complain about what the change was called then AFK crows would like to have a word with you.
Still waiting on your video evidence that there's a go next epidemic right now. Or does that not matter when it comes to your assertions?
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010816#Comment_4010816
I guess I just get the deranged ones, though I probably get more suicide attempts than DCs. It happened to me at least twice in my session two days ago and I was Wraith.
I'd rather people DC than throw the match though. Bots at least try. Had a recent survivor match where someone DCed after a double hook and it ended up a 4-out. Even the bot got to leave. We might not have made it if they'd just killed themselves.
I mean, I usually do see more DCs than that - it was just kind of weird because it was so few and it was with Krasue.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010709#Comment_4010709
I don't know about you but I'm not seeing anyone going next in my matches.
I'm actually kinda surprised you don't. If I play 10 killer matches in a session, two or three will always have people trying to get me to kill them, particularly the one that was hooked first, or if I get three or more hooks before a gen gets done. I had a match recently where someone brought a luck offering and my first two hookings went second stage trying to kill themselves. That sort of thing isn't a rare occurrence for me.
But that highlights another point. If it happens that much in my matches, yet the warning rate appears to be low, the system doesn't work. And that's because—as just about everyone has deduced—it's time based. I usually swerve on people trying to die, at least until I get tired of them spamming lockers, pallet slamming, or chashing me around the map. I don't tunnel, so they're not dying a minute into the match, yet they're still sandbagging and trying to go next.
I see a fair amount of DCs but can't remember the last time someone tried to feed themselves to me. I even played an entire evening of Krasue the other night and had like maybe a couple of DCs. I pushed my luck with a few rounds of Kaneki and somehow managed to not get a single DC.
I have seen salty lips and chalk pouches as offerings a few times in survivor matches but no one really used them as far as I could tell.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010763#Comment_4010763
I certainly don't appreciate you trying to get an entire part of Go Next to be fully reverted, even though Go Next helps the game way more often than it has false positives.
Survivor ragequitting is a major game problem, and it deserves Go Next to be fully functional. If Go Next is having false positives, the proper solution is to try to identify why the false positives occurred, to try to reduce the number of false positives in the future. It doesn't make sense to say "oh, I personally saw 1 false positive, so let's just scrap the entire auto-penalty feature instead of trying to improve it".
You do realize how ridiculously ironic your entire response here is, yes?
You say 'I certainly don't appreciate you trying to get an entire part of Go Next to be fully reverted … '. I challenge you to show me a single place I said that.
In fact, I've been pointing out things that I've experienced that might be responsible for false positives and yet you've done nothing but argue with me.
Shall we turn this evidence table around now? You say people going next is some sort of epidemic despite hook changes. Prove it. None of this 'well everyone knows' or 'watch any streamer' tomfoolery - nope, I'm going to need some actual proof. Proof of people going next. Not DCing. Going next.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010741#Comment_4010741
I’m claiming you don’t know enough about QA testing to draw solid conclusions out of your one example.
Just because you personally can’t think of other variables that might be involved, doesn’t mean there were zero other variables involved. It might be the short game time AND one or more other variables combined, that causes the warning. With this logic, the “one of more variables” would not cause a warning by themselves, but would only cause a warning in combination to the short game time variable.
We’re not even sure if each game is being evaluated separately, or if Go Next builds a profile on a player based upon previous games.
Actually I'm a software engineer, I'm not ignorant about QA testing (nice assumption about my experience there btw). This isn't a court of law. This isn't a meeting of the QA or prod support teams. The amount of proof you seem to need in order to stop telling other people to ignore their own experience is unrealistic for a discussion forum.
Just because it's remotely possible that some mystery variable is at play doesn't mean I should shut my brain off and figure it's just unknowable. It shouldn't have given me that message. Period. Full stop. I didn't go next that match. I didn't go next the match before that. I didn't go next the match before the previous match. I DON'T GO NEXT. The only possible thing that could have happened there is that it misidentified me as going next - because I wasn't.
The fact that I did part of a gen, unhooked someone, and it still gave me the message tells me it ignored those events. The only alternative is that it didn't ignore them in which case I ask - how the hell is that evidence of me going next? Yet you argue I can't possibly posit that it just ignored them.
You haven't gotten it before? Great - good for you. Those of us that have when it wasn't warranted don't really care and certainly don't appreciate you coming in here an telling us how we should think and feel about it.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010721#Comment_4010721
No, you don't know for a fact that everything else was ignored. You have one example, and that's it. You don't even have examples of other times you lost that quickly, which means you're not even sure if the warning would happen again if you lost that quickly.
And DCs are a big part of Go Next, because if the penalties themselves are too light, then people won't take them seriously. From the screenshots people have shared, I'm assuming they need to get flagged multiple times before there is even a penalty, and even then, the first few penalties are so light that a lot of people aren't taking them seriously.
No, you don't know for a fact that everything else was ignored.
So your suggestion here is what - it didn't ignore it and considers doing part of a gen and unhooking a survivor as something someone does when they're going next? Remember - it gave me that stupid warning at the end of that match. It either considered those actions or it didn't. If it did consider them then it must have considered my doing part of a gen and unhooking someone to be evidence of me going next. It's one or the other here - either it ignored it or considered it. Arguing that it considered it makes zero sense therefore I feel absolutely confident in saying it ignored it.
You don't even have examples of other times you lost that quickly
Probably because this is the fastest time in my memory that I've lost this quickly. There are no other examples. That being the case and the fact that this is the only match that has given me this message tells me that the one aberrant thing about this match is probably what triggered the message. Otherwise what the hell else would have triggered it - the numerous other things that I've done in numerous other matches that didn't leave me with a 'suspicious behavior' message at the end screen? I don't need to review the code or pour over hundreds of videos to make educated inferences about what it's doing or triggering off of.
I guarantee you the sky isn't on fire right now but I'm not looking outside. Do you want to argue with me about that?
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@SpringMyTrap said:
I think the only big change trapper truly needs is some kind of a mechanic that brings back his 2016 gameplay identity when survivors ACTUALLY had to be super paranoid about traps being anywhere bc they couldnt see them.
Like making them transparent and explain it with some entity magic or make them outright INVISIBLE unless survivor is in close proximity (like 1-2 meters so they'd be able to reasonably react to them if they walk or crouch but if they're running it would be very difficult).
One of the biggest issues with trapper is his identity loss and flanderization with traps progressively becoming less and less useful over the years for anything but area denial / bottleneck camping. It's more consistent, sure, but it took away what made trapper so fun.
I dont think he needs to be "viable", he is conceptually unviable and inconsistent because that's the nature of "high risk high reward" trap power that can instantly win you a chase if survivor gets into the trap. He just needs to do his job properly and he's been unable to for years.
That sounds like pretty miserable gameplay for the survivors.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010709#Comment_4010709
I don't think anyone said the only solution is to disregard all actions taken in a match and just go off how quickly you die. We don't have any video evidence, saying that is even occurring. People learned "correlation does not imply causation" in high school, and it still applies here. You don't actually know what caused the warnings or penalties.
And no, I don't think the hook changes fixed the problem. And I have absolutely idea idea how you aren't seeing any ragequitting, because when I watch streamers, I'm seeing A LOT of it happening, where the survivors either DC, or they purposely throw themselves at the killer to ragequit without DCing.
The thing is, the one time I've seen the 'suspicious behavior' message is in a match where I was at least momentarily on a gen and the down that ended up being my death was in a hook trade. I know for a fact that the system has to ignore the things I did because if it didn't then I wouldn't have gotten the message. It's also the fastest I think I've ever died so that tells me it's likely just going off speed to death since it clearly ignored the actions I did take in the match.
I don't have infinite storage space. I don't stream. I don't want to wear out my SSDs by constantly writing and deleting video files I don't want in the first place just in the off chance I might capture evidence to use in a stupid forum argument.
I did say I've seen DCs. Those are a measured and handled by a completely different system - not what we're discussing here.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010687#Comment_4010687
Getting the message isn't anywhere near as annoying as having a teammate ragequit early.
Survivors ragequitting early is far more annoying, and far more damaging to the game as a whole.
Who are you arguing with here? Who is saying rage quitting is fine?
Do you think the only solution to going next is to disregard all actions taken in a match and just go off how quickly you die? Doesn't matter if you were on a gen? Doesn't matter if you unhooked someone? You died quick so you must be throwing? You think that's a good system?
Do you not think the hook changes already fixed the problem? I don't know about you but I'm not seeing anyone going next in my matches. I'm seeing DCs but that doesn't have anything to do with this - DCs are a different system.
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The penalties for DCing and dying too fast are 2 different things. DC too frequently and it can result in a time out before joining another lobby. Die too fast, too frequently and it gives you a grade reduction.
I've never had a grade reduction but I have seen that obnoxious 'suspicious behavior' warning one time. I know for a fact I wasn't going next nor had I died that fast in any recent matches. If it can erroneously trigger the warning to occur I don't find it unbelievable that it could erroneously trigger the grade reduction. Less likely, sure - you'd have to experience the same level of bad match multiple times in close proximity, but not impossible.
If someone is having that terrible of luck the last thing they need is to have salt rubbed in their wounds. I know getting that message once annoyed the hell out of me and that wasn't even a grade reduction.
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@runningguy said:
ye even after update, killer still broken and survivors are still going next and dc pretty much every match
What region are you in? I'm North America and I really don't see her very often. When I've played as her I haven't seen many DCs. The last one I got was ironically during a match where I was mainly playing her as an M1 killer and staying in her human form for a majority of that particular match.
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I don't know about you guys and your internal organ arrangement but I don't think I'd survive being hooked through the chest once, much less twice.
Being smacked with some intestines - yeah, pretty gross but also pretty survivable. Maybe that's why it does no damage if she hasn't already covered you in leaching gland parts. The intestinal whip never really downs you - it's just a coincidence that aligns with when the leaching gland's blood drain hits a dangerous level.
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So based on the reduction in the number of active mushrooms, is the intent behind the leaching mechanic that it mainly be used in active chase and not something to really go out of your way to try and apply to more than one survivor at a time?
That's kind of how I've been playing her but I'm curious if that's the intent. Like the whole broken mechanic is kind of a 'nice when it happens' thing but not really not something to shoot for intentionally.
Also, were her vaults slower than base killer vaults on the PTB? Normal mode vaults are 1.7, yeah? Granted that's just windows. Another .3 seconds and it would be more worth it to just destroy the pallet depending on how the loop is going and what form you're in originally.
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I was kind of avoiding her myself since I didn't want to add to the assumed long chain of frustrating Krasue matches my survivor opponents would have faced. Then I played some survivor over an evening and realized - not many people seem to be playing her. Over a night of matches I saw her maybe a couple of times. Given this, I played a string of matches on her to knock out the chapter quests + a little extra.
I'm honestly not sure where I stand on her. I've had interactions where she seems to intestinal whip her way around a corner to hit me. I've also played as her and have never once had something like that happen so I have no idea how they pulled it off.
I've had matches where the survivors seem to be coordinated and I only ended up with 1 sacrifice. Others, were pretty smooth 4Ks at ~2-3 gens. I do handicap myself a bit so that could also be why my experience with her isn't quite the steamroll others seem to describe - I don't kill survivors early, I don't camp or tunnel unless the exit gates are powered, and generally play in a way that I feel wouldn't frustrate me if I were on the receiving end. I could also just still be learning her I guess.
She probably has the biggest gap between what it feels like to go against her versus playing as her of any killer I've played in this game.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4008004#Comment_4008004
Well, ask yourself why pre-nerf Dead Hard was so popular and powerful, even at the highest levels of play.
Even a single extra health state can decide the outcome of a match, particularly against Killers that already struggle to get hits in a timely manner. When you're playing Killer, every second counts.
Pre-nerf Dead Hard was more for making distance. If anything, it's new Dead Hard that's more centered around endurance. Aside from that the circumstances around OTR's activation are a little different from Dead Hard.
My argument isn't that it's useless or anything, just that it's not the state of invincibility that some seem to portray it as. It only protects against one hit - that doesn't qualify it as 'god mode'.
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@Anti051 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007654#Comment_4007654
(Gets unhooked), (OTR activates), (gets healed by rescuer in under 10 seconds).
"Wow, I've still got 70 seconds of invincibility! I'm gonna go screw with the killer for perk value!"
(Body-blocks killer in another chase), (Gets exposed by Ghostface), (purposely takes the hit but doesn't go down due to OTR god-mode).
Killer ends up getting significantly punished by the abuse of a so-called "anti-tunnel" perk.
OTR isn't 'god mode' any more than a survivor being at full health is 'god mode'. Just hit them twice. Seriously, why do people treat endurance like it's some unbeatable thing?
Annoying sometimes? Maybe. God mode? Ridiculous.
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I feel like if they just reverted whatever they did to her intestinal whip that made it less able to be dodged and made mushrooms spawn like they did originally in the PTB that would go a long way to help.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/457494/suspicious-behavior-warning-is-obnoxious
honestly have no idea how people are getting this. i have never had that once. never even had a penalty for DC. what are you people doing in your matches lol
The exact chain of events in that match per my perspective. The map was Rancid Abattoir and the killer was Huntress.
- We all load in in one corner of the map.
- 2 teammates head to the closest generator, 1 heads off somewhere else, and I run to a corner across the back of the main building.
- I know killers know where survivors spawn in whether they have lethal pursuer or not so I'm not hopping on the closest gen. Thank you small maps and predictable spawn logic.
- By the time I get to a gen to start, the huntress has 1 of the 2 who started that first, closest gen down and is in case with the other one. She downs the other one and then starts hooking them.
- I forget that they didn't roll out basekit BBQ so I hop in a locker that was thankfully close to the gen I was on while the hooking takes place.
- I see she gets in chase with the only other person up and wounds them.
- I figure I need to get someone off the hook now before it's just down to me so I run over.
- The chase the Huntress and other survivor is in spills out of the main building and puts me in eyeshot of the killer as I'm approaching the closest hooked survivor. She breaks that chase and comes over to me.
- By now I'm positioned to where I can just accept that it's going to be a hook trade or try to loop her in the immediate area of the hooked people which would prevent anyone from getting unhooked anyway. I chose the trade.
- Standard hook trade plays out. I start unhooking, huntress hits me, I restart unhooking while she wipes her axe and finish just in time for her to down me.
- She leaves me on the ground, goes and downs the person I just unhooked as well as the person she was originally chasing.
- She goes around hooking everyone she's slugged, starting with me. Once everyone's on hook and sacrificed, I get that lovely little nastygram from BHVR.
Now I think I made reasonable decisions and performed reasonable actions given the information I had available to me at the time. Even if that isn't the case, I obviously wasn't giving up, going next, or otherwise throwing. If I made a bad call, it was just a bad call - not go nexting.
The system must just look at how fast you die and not care about anything else, and that's complete frustrating BS. It makes me paranoid in subsequent matches. I'm not playing to further the match, I'm playing to avoid that stupid message. Risky save early on - nope! I guess I'm supposed to screw over my teammates to try for hatch. It's like back when you'd get crows erroneously - the goal becomes 'avoid crows' not 'play the match dynamically as things happen'.
Sometimes the stars align to give you the perfect, terrible solo queue match. The last thing you need is salt rubbed in an already frustrating experience.
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Lets be honest with ourselves, making them consistent across maps almost certainly means taking the map they're weakest on and applying that to every map - not finding some middle ground and certainly not going with the strongest effect. Survivor players aren't allowed to have anything new if it turns out it might actually be useful - nothing that actually affects the outcome of a chase or match is allowed.
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@brewingtea said:
Were you having impure thoughts while playing? WERE YOU?
No, it wasn't a Trickster match.
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@cogsturning said:
I'm kinda shocked I've never gotten one of these even after being the first to get hard tunneled.
It was the first time I've ever seen it myself and my personal experience is it was annoying enough to make up for all the times I haven't. I am so disproportionately aggravated about this right now. lol.
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@bleep275 said:
I see a lot of tiktoks of people getting tunneled out so fast they get this warning.
Crazy how they wimp out of an anti-tunnel update but keep in a system that reduces a survivors grade for being tunneled and destroys the ONLY "free" anti-tunnel perk.
Had they rolled out the anti-slugging portion of the update then that would have fixed this too since she just left me on the ground while she slugged the other 2 for a 5 gen 4k. She really missed that killer queue I guess.
Honestly though - I unhooked someone immediately before getting downed. How freaking hard is it to make the system recognize hook trades aren't throwing. I couldn't even just let them sit there for a while because she was about the get the 3rd person down and then what the hell am I supposed to do? I needed to get at least one other person up and by the time I knew she was just going to break chase and go for me I was already committed.
I could have hid and played for hatch like a jerk but I doubt that's the behavior this system is meant to encourage and I don't actually want to play that way anyway.
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@Jog_Og said:
Big BHVR is always watching you champ be careful
They can't be watching that closely if they called what I did in that match 'suspicious'. I'm pretty sure I was the only one that caused a measurable event to happen other than being in chase - the unhooking. No shade to my teammates though, the huntress was literally on them before they could have done anything and was very liberal with the slugging.
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No. They might as well just remove the ability to post images - keeping up with approvals would either require someone be dedicated to monitoring the forums 24/7 or just create a situation where posts with images simply don't exist for extended periods of time while the system waits for someone to get to it.
The fact that this behavior has been possible since the beginning of these forums and has only very rarely been an actual problem tells me it's not a big enough or widespread enough issue to dedicate resources to correcting. Sometimes people are going to behave grossly. It sucks but you don't break everyone else's experience just because one day someone decides to act like a jerk.
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They’ve shrunken and brightened up the maps and introduced enough aura reads now that trying to hide is kind of pointless. I’ve had killers head straight to me when I’m trying to stay out of sight enough that I’ve given up on trying to avoid being spotted.
It’s almost to where I don’t care about loud noise notifications either. It’s not like they can’t x-ray see me from across the map anyway.
Really the only thing you can do is get gens done as fast as possible. Trying to avoid the killer is no longer as viable a strategy as it used to be so you only have as long as it takes for them to ping pong between your teammates and yourself to get gens done.
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@Raccoon said:
There are literally hundreds of videos and thousands of posts demonstrating, with concrete evidence, why the current iteration was not good.
This wall of evidence was so thick that BHVR made a statement a couple of days into the PTB indicating as much.
Objectively, it should not be going live until these issues which, again, have hundreds of captured examples, are addressed.
The foot stomping and whining from some users is simply wild, particularly when no effort is made to refute the very real evidence that exists.
The system is going to be tweaked and brought back in a better form that presumably addresses its current issues - there is no need to be upset or descend into histrionics.
There were not hundreds of videos.
And what evidence? Opinion videos with hypothetical scenarios narrated over a match the killer is still obviously winning isn’t evidence.
I’m not going to say all the changes were good or all the changes were bad but acting like the pushback to them was anything more than panicked, frequently evidence-free doomposting is just ignoring the truth.
I played on the PTB and know for a fact the sky wasn’t falling.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997275#Comment_3997275
Idk your MMR, your opponents could just be ass. Survivor is easily better than killer, just because public stats that include all players (including bad ones) says otherwise does not mean survivor isn't stronger. The devs had stated themselves that changes are kften motivated by pick rates and kill rates. They probably saw that and assumed that survivor was struggling, when in reality its just bad players struggling.
That's a lot of copium in that post there.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997237#Comment_3997237
Its factual information that survivor is better, and its in the stats too for the most part. BHVR caters far too much to bad survivor players, and these changes would've been the mother load of unbalance. I have a 75%+ escape rate, thats not supposed to be happening according to BHVR's target killrate.
That's not factual at all. The latest aggregated stats BHVR have released show every single killer wins greater than 50% of the time and most are at or above their 60% target. Killers literally win more than survivors.
Your personal stats aren't relevant to game balance beyond their contribution to aggregated killer/survivor win/loss data. Past 30 day combined data shows I have greater than 60% kill rates on 16 of 19 played killers - still think we should go off anecdotal, player by player data?
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/456090/once-again-killer-wins
Calm down buddy your preferred role is still stronger.
Killer mains get what they want and still act like they're weak victims.
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@TheGoone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997096#Comment_3997096
Or tunneling and slugging is fair and your using your made up survivor rulebook to think it's not. Tunneling and slugging will always exist and there's no amount of crying you can do to get rid of it.
Didn't take long for smug killers to start doing their victory lap, did it? Enjoy your queue times there buddy.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997024#Comment_3997024
I think so too. Killers will get to keep their new basekit perks and survivors will get one extra second added to their basekit BT or something lame like that.
To further the prediction, I predict they'll still act like it was some survivor sided change.
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@Shinkiro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996958#Comment_3996958
And here comes the us vs them.
People on BOTH sides that are actually capable of rational and objective thought were agreeing how god awful and game breaking all these changes are, because they are. That's how you know how bad this was.
Your second sentence is literally what you are trying to do to killers right now, forcing unfair and aisine gameplay.
There's nothing wrong with taking the time to get this right for both sides. Anyone moaning doesnt want that.
People on both sides were saying the changes sounded fine, just needed some number tweaks, or seemed fine in actual PTB matches as well. You seem to ignore them in your analysis of how bad this was.
The simple fact is no anti-slug, anti-tunnel mechanic will never be considered 'right' by people who only care about the killer gameplay experience. This is clearly evidenced by the actual dialog that has taken place regarding these changes over the past week or 2 - their arguments have been as much against the mere idea of anti-tunnel/anti-slug mechanics as against the specifics of these mechanics.
Having played on the PTB myself I know from my own experience that matches using these new rules are simply not unreasonably difficult for killers nor are they unwinnable for killers. In fact, they weren't really any different for me at all because I don't slug excessively or tunnel.
This was always going to get the same treatment anti-face camping and fog vials got when killer players started complaining - nerfed into uselessness. I'm surprised it took less than a week on the PTB to get there but some influential killer players were running around with arms flailing about like panicked Muppets so I suppose that helped.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996873#Comment_3996873
Which would just be like any OTHER anti-tunnel protection. This was the entire reason for conspicuous actions to begin with. You ended up with an awkward situation where DS was essentially granting every survivor 2 minutes of free gen time if the killer tried to avoid eating it. That has nothing to do with tunneling anymore.
I would point out that the OTHER anti-tunnel protection methods have failed to correct the problem. That's why we are where we are. You can still down them. You can still death hook them or mori them if you want. It's just not as efficient to do so with these changes depending on how many gens remain.
The key phrase in your statement about DS is 'if the killer tried to avoid eating it'. Granting free gen time to a survivor because you don't want to just eat a stun and re-down them is the killer's choice.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996859#Comment_3996859
What do you mean handing out the benefits of tunneling someone out without the need to actually do it?
The survivors would be in a situation where they would have to chose between having a teammate that can not do anything without losing their anti-tunnel protection or having one that does help but makes it as if there's no anti-tunnel system because they helped. So either they contribute nothing or they do and cause the anti-tunnel protection to turn off.
Either way, there may as well not be any anti-tunnel system at that point. The only time it kicks in is when the survivors turn the match into a 3v1 themselves by having someone who is intentionally useless to keep the protection active.
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@LordGlint said:
Found another one
MAYBE the penalty shouldn't be a thing if someone is cranking the gens...
https://youtu.be/EWvyko3y4lU?si=ebGF7Se9A7M91393
The Taurie here definitely never got tunneled and is just blatantly gaming the system.
I get the thinking behind making conspicuous actions cancel the protection but isn't that just handing out the benefits of tunneling someone out without the need to actually do it? The survivors would be in a situation where they can either act as if they're playing a 3v1 or it can just be made a 3v1. The other survivor may as well not even be there.
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It looks like it's the same with survivors - before entering the blood web on any given survivor they're in a fresh, nothing unlocked, nothing but the basic item, level 1 state. Entering the blood web unlocks every perk for that character (including other character's perks) but needs to be repeated for each survivor you want to actually play as.
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@MDRSan said:
I had a match in RPD where my partner was playing friendly. It was kind of early in the match so it had only just started occurring to me that I'm the only one who has hooked anyone. Then 3 gens popped practically simultaneously. Chasing a noise notification I ran into that open office area in RPD East and saw my partner watching a group of 4 survivors on a gen. I hit one before I realized what was going on because they weren't really scattering and he was just kind of looking around. I just gave up - get your gens done, get out, and let me requeue.
An Ada and Leon tracked me down after the exit gates were powered but I wasn't in the mood for whatever they were trying so I just led them back to a gate and smacked the controls. Just get out.
I'll play friendly sometimes in 1v4 if I feel like it and the survivors seem chill but not after waiting 20 minutes in the freaking queue and not when I have a partner depending on playing like I'm supposed to. So frustrating.
Anyone care to explain what the down votes are for? I'm actually, genuinely curious.
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I had a match in RPD where my partner was playing friendly. It was kind of early in the match so it had only just started occurring to me that I'm the only one who has hooked anyone. Then 3 gens popped practically simultaneously. Chasing a noise notification I ran into that open office area in RPD East and saw my partner watching a group of 4 survivors on a gen. I hit one before I realized what was going on because they weren't really scattering and he was just kind of looking around. I just gave up - get your gens done, get out, and let me requeue.
An Ada and Leon tracked me down after the exit gates were powered but I wasn't in the mood for whatever they were trying so I just led them back to a gate and smacked the controls. Just get out.
I'll play friendly sometimes in 1v4 if I feel like it and the survivors seem chill but not after waiting 20 minutes in the freaking queue and not when I have a partner depending on playing like I'm supposed to. So frustrating.
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@XDgamer018 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993874#Comment_3993874
Neither does genrushing...
Why, does a gen not have fun if it's completed before it can accomplish anything in a match?
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I wish the tunnel/slug mechanics had their own PTB release. I can see how the tunnel/slug updates need to go together because otherwise just slugging is the easy response to the tunneling changes but with the new killer, Myers rework, random other things then it's going to get a little muddled.
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@brunohvs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993521#Comment_3993521
the speed a killer downs a surv, depends on who is better, your argument ignores the fact that the killer can be looped or even lose chase
My argument doesn't ignore that at all. The killer was always able to be looped or lose chase - that's not a new thing. I'm not comparing one player to another so skill level is irrelevant - I'm comparing the state of the game 2-3 years ago to the state of the game now.
I don't see how you could possibly argue that smaller maps, brighter visibility, more aura reads, and knowing where all the survivors spawn in doesn't affect how quick any given player can burn through the survivor team compared to that same player not having those things.
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They've been shrinking maps, eliminating areas of shadow and darkness, handing out aura reads like it's candy, and changing spawn logic so the killer can head straight for the survivors on loading in even without lethal pursuer. The more they shove survivors straight at the killer and reduce the ability to use stealth the faster gens have to go in order to not all but guarantee killer wins.
It's one big cycle - the faster killers can find and down survivors the faster gens need to be able to be completed. The faster gens are able to be completed the faster killers need to be able to find and down survivors. The more they focus on chases at the expense of stealth the more they're putting a hard cap on how slow anything can go in a match without completely favoring one side or the other.
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This might come as a shock to some on the forum but there are matches where the survivors successfully juggle tapes to where they never get full condemned and Sadako still manages to win. It's almost like she's totally viable even if she can't kill someone right off the bat. Crazy.
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992594#Comment_3992594
Anyone who actually runs into the really strong groups knows this change is insanely bad, and vs some teams you basically click ‘ready to lose’ with most killers in the roster
So yup: we’re compressing the meta even more into ‘top killers only. For me its nurse then at this point.
And then I’ll slug and tunnel on her—not that I even need to on her, still doin it then) —because this community asked for it. You wanted fewer options and less killer variety? I’ll use the one that ends games clean and fast.
So unless there are no consequences to playing oppressively in a way that is unfun for one side then you're threatening to what - just do something that you think is the same thing anyway? Let me tunnel people out at my leisure as killer x or I'll tunnel people out at my leisure as killer y?