MDRSan
MDRSan
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Judging by some of the more killer oriented responses here I'm not sure we weren't watching completely separate livestreams with completely different announcements.
Anti-Tunnel (If it can even be called that)
It effectively doesn't matter how they define tunneling because they're doing absolutely nothing to discourage it. There is no penalty to doing it. You get a minor buff for unique hooks but that doesn't leave killers worse off than they are now. If you use hard tunneling as a crutch now you can use that exact same crutch after the update.
They're giving survivors limited time tools to locate and avoid the killer immediately after being unhooked so that in situations where they're being tunneled they can have a bit more of a fighting chance. The horror. 😒
Anti-Face Camp
Yes, they're increasing the radius of what is considered being face camped. This just acknowledges the reality that there's little difference between face camping and standing a little bit away from face camping. They're also reducing the speed at which the self unhook meter fills by 50% but the panicked masses seem to be ignoring that part.
Anti-Slug
This one is actually going to do something compared to live right now. If you leave someone slugged for 2 solid minutes they can get themselves up. If you slug multiple people simultaneously the 2 minutes are reduced. Unless someone can explain why they would want to leave someone slugged for that long beyond just wanting to play like a dick then I don't see what the problem is here either.
Add-Ons
They're also nerfing some big scawey med-kit addons (probably into uselessness) further advancing killers' desire that all survivor items be cosmetics that have no bearing on the match.
But please, continue telling me how this is a big, unfair, survivor sided patch before it even hits the PTB.
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This is probably so confusing because it's frequently a killer player contending that survivor players are the only ones who have any comeback mechanics, have their hands held, or are able to 'abuse' mechanics. The fact that they've been living in a glass house this entire time has never even occurred to them.
This is why I try to avoid calling every mechanic I don't like 'hand holding' and a player using things I don't like 'abuse'. Both sides have items, perks, and tactics I'd rather not have to face - that doesn't mean it's all unfair. I think things like killers slugging to avoid DS or waiting out OtR while face planted into a survivor's back are cheap tactics that miss the whole point of them existing to serve anti-tunnel purposes but I don't whine about it on the forums. I also don't complain about survivors using syringes and styptics for the one purpose they're there for as if it's some cheat and not just something intentional in the game.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018143#Comment_4018143
yes 100% easier…dont have to deal with hooks or hook stages and only need to do it to 1 or 2 survivors to get a bot then its easy street because bots are useless. when theres a couple of bots in the match its pretty much game over unless the killer seriously misplays it. i say this as survivor and killer, i know how easy it is to kill bots. faster they become bots easier it is
You already had to down the survivors twice anyway to get to where they even could abandon. You already expended most of the effort you would have had to if you had just played normally. Now you want to tack on additional effort to have to down bots all over again. Doesn't matter how easy it is - it's additional effort. Plus, all on a gamble - you have no idea if the survivors will actually abandon. If they don't, you've wasted your entire match with zero hooks. You lose.
If you think that makes for a faster or easier match than playing like a normal person then you're just wrong. That has nothing to do with this thread though.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018124#Comment_4018124
so killers could try to force abandon by downing people twice? why hook or slug when they could just do that to pick up the win? its not just the bug that needs fixing its the abandon option as a whole that needs fixing
That's a completely different situation you're lumping in because you just don't like the abandon system. Forcing survivors to abandon doesn't end the match - it just replaces them with bots. Do you think downing each survivor twice, banking on them abandoning, and then downing their bot alter-egos again for hooking is easier than just playing the game normally?
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If using a key or map to view auras caused the match to no longer be counted in stats or used for MMR calculations the solution wouldn't be to remove keys or maps.
Just fix the bug.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016646#Comment_4016646
Because its not MEANT to reduce the effectiveness of camping. It's mean to reduce the effectiveness of FACE camping aka standing RIGHT IN FRONT of the hooked survivor. IF you hook trade you buy your team more time compared to someone whose already been sitting for a while. It's better to get the person off before they hit the next hook stage and give your fresh 70 second stage than to put so much more pressure on your team. You get more time to reset, work on gens if the killer is actually sitting by hook and less pressure for the killer in general. If a killer is literally sitting by the hook you get either the most free 3 out of all time when played correctly (which isn't that hard) or the game is already in a losing state for the killer.
If you can get back to the hook so fast you may as well have been face camping then it's a distinction without a difference. The 'face' in face camping isn't the problem - if it was then you may as well just call it an anti-bubba/anti-billy mechanic because that's all it's good for.
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@runningguy said:
i been saying this since day 1 lol last survivor almost always abandons instead of watching the mori or hook animation and it just makes no sense to allow this to happen.
Weren't you arguing killers should be able to abandon and just end the match for everybody rather than potentially have to watch survivors t bag at the exit gate in another thread?
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There's nothing wrong with the abandon function. The system doesn't need scrapped because of this, they just need to not dump matches from their data sets if abandon was used when no other outcome was possible but a killer victory. They should also not exclude it from MMR calculations. Problem solved.
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There's also a new quest in week 2 to craft void crystals so if you still need to get your 15 hooks I'd do it now before most survivors get that one done.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016338#Comment_4016338
As opposed to just using your own personal experience and the (completely unverifiable) anecdotal experiences of others you see positing on TikTok and other forums to draw broad conclusions about game balance?
Some people love to dismiss the stats because they don’t support their preferred narrative. But these same people never suggest any alternative or better way to draw conclusions about game balance other than “solo queue is not fun for me and also I saw some people on TikTok say that they don’t have fun in solo queue either”.
Personal experience is a valid data point to consider for anyone. If someone has an absolutely miserable experience playing solo queue they should what, tell their brains to stop lying to them because some black box data analysis says balance is fine? They're actually having a great time and totally not being steamrolled?
Assume a situation where the stats showed a perfect 40/60 split on escape/kill rates. What if those escapes required the survivors to fight tooth and nail to achieve their escape and those kills were a killer face rolling their way to victory - would you still call that balanced? What if 60% kill rates were a result of high mobility killers having 80-90% kill rates being averaged against low mobility killers having 5-10% kill rates? The game would be balanced by coincidence because of which killers people chose, not by design.
I do think if anyone wants to be a data/statistic devotee to these stats then they need to be that way for both sides. If someone thinks a 40% escape rate means survivor is fine, no further questions needed then they really don't have a leg to stand on if they want to argue killer is 'weak'. You don't get a 40% escape rate without a 60% kill rate.
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As someone who has been playing a bit of survivor in this event I agree that it would be nice if there was some reason for survivors to actually go in there. As it stands it's just a death trap that doesn't reward you with anything particularly fun or powerful for risking going in there.
Kicking pumpkins is basically the only thing this event has that doesn't actively discourage survivors from engaging with it.
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Counterpoint, aside from the matches I've been intentionally playing friendly in because it's supposed to be a fun event, not a sweatfest - I've been doing alright. I'm maybe noticing the pallets a little bit but they really aren't impacting my matches all that much.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015786#Comment_4015786
I played one survivor match, got tunneled, and we switched back to normal mode. Maybe I'll go in solo to have a look at the void as a survivor and just be ready to die. Too bad the killer knows I'm there immediately and will just down me while I'm staring at the sky.
As killer, I've been playing normal, sadly. I don't have time to go into the Void to make these pointless Haunts. I smash a few pumpkins at end game while I wait for everyone to fly up into he sky. It's a sad state of affairs.
Honestly, don't play killer in this. I feel like a villain but I'm also tasting that winning addiction these 80%+ KR people have and I don't like the feeling at all, yet I'm struggling to stop. Turn back before it's too late. I'm kinda hoping a meme team will approach me and bust out instruments and I will calm the hell down. But for now, too many sweaty teams are making me sweat too. The whole event is just overly sweaty.
It's funny you mention the instruments. I don't really play much Wraith but brought him into an event match yesterday and we almost had a full band between me, a Mikaela, and I think a Vee. I've been trying to limit my friendly matches to killers I don't play much - I hate the kind of monster that stat tracking website has turned me into.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015755#Comment_4015755
Maybe they did it to gather data on some of the more slanted maps with the new pallets? That would make some sense. It does seem to be maps that lean towards one side or the other.
There was also that map survey a couple of weeks ago - they might be using the results from that to target testing on live.
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@cogsturning said:
I have no idea why survivors are playing this mode. It needs a bigger bonus. Someone going into the void, especially injured, has been a pretty much guaranteed down for me every time. I've played probably 40-50 killer matches. I recall losing two. Had maybe three ties. Everything else has been a win, almost all 4Ks. A few people have been smart and gone in to distract me then come back out again, but it hasn't done them much good, and it should be more interactive as it's own thing than as a cheap trick.
As much as I'd like to go kick pumpkins and make void crystals and whatnot, I'm not touching this as survivor unless friends want to do Quests.
I've been playing it because stomping pumpkins gives a little bit of extra blood points plus I have dowsing rods to burn. I guess I'm also waiting for that magic match where a killer doesn't play like their life depended on it. Other than that I'm just interacting with things as if it were a normal match. Completely ignoring event mechanics seems to give better results and it's not like are themselves inherently fun or novel.
That said, the majority of matches I've been in have either been complete curb stomps by the killer or I end up dying anyway because I tend to do stupid things like try and drag the killer away from people on gens even if I know my only other option is a dead zone.
Yeah, I don't know why I'm playing this event anymore. Hell, I don't know why I'm playing this game anymore. lol. I suppose killer queues aren't terrible right now - I could just hop on there and ignore the irony of me taking my frustrations out on new groups of survivors because I just want to win a few matches and killer is the only way to reliably do that.
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@Roco45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015698#Comment_4015698
It's required to pickup a tape when playing against her and being locked out of going into the void until the tape is put into a tv across the map is circumventing the entire event. Everything else can be put down by Survs, her tapes cannot be, this is very simple logic.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015700#Comment_4015700
Doesn't matter, everything you just listed can be put down while her tapes cannot be.
Doesn't matter, everything you just listed can be put down while her tapes cannot be.
All I'm asking is if anyone noticed them doing the same thing. I was curious if it was tied to the mechanics of all killer items or just Sadako's. Not sure where the instant dismissiveness comes from.
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Do other killer items do the same thing? Like EMPs, Nemesis syringes, or Wesker's med sprays? Odd if it was just Sadako's video tapes.
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015648#Comment_4015648
The last iteration was almost perfect, good enough looping where a survivor could mindgame and still buy time, but not so much that it would cost the killer time. The killer would want 3 portals open, survivors would want ALL portals open (which, costs time). The killer item was stronger than the survivor item already as you could effectively instadown if timed right.
Legitimately the only problem was that you could slug in the void even stronger than outside the void. This void is one you only want to use if you do challenges or know the killer is tunnelling to close distance. In fact, right now I dont even know why survivors are exhausted. The reason exhaustion needed to be added was Balanced Landing, but since the center piece is gone, there is nothing you can do to "abuse" exhaustion perks there.It's been a couple of years since I last played the event so I don't exactly recall what the middle pillar was like. What made it so balanced landing's use was considered abuse and not just using the perk for the purpose it was designed for? Was it just because it would allow people to get to a portal? The killer could just follow them, yeah?
It seems like they swung way too much in the other direction making it so chases practically guarantee a down instead of chases potentially being extended.
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I thought I remembered past haunted events being more enjoyable than this. I was actually looking forward to this event.
The void is a death trap and fog crystals aren't worth a fraction of the risk or effort required to get them - they don't even have fun, novel, but useless mechanics. They're just a thing that exists.
Killers get an audio notification and an icon showing them who is currently in the void. It's like ringing a dinner bell. They're not even risking you maybe not being in there anymore because they have real time info on who is in the void.
The way the void's laid out, if a killer gets a hit on a survivor and they aren't already near an exit portal (or they're already wounded) then the survivor is going to go down in there unless the killer really misplays. I've experienced this personally as a killer - every time I've found the person in there, they've gone down in there (unless I was playing friendly and just getting some BPs for depositing void energy).
The risk to not being able to complete the killer quest to hook 15 survivors in the void isn't that you might not be able to down them there, it's that survivors will stop going before you can get your 15 because it's obviously a death trap.
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@Massquwatt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015140#Comment_4015140
I think for the purposes of EGC I think it could also be perfectly acceptable to program the end game collapse to function without a killer. An afk killer bot won't really do anything other than generate a miniscule amount of points from standing in the terror radius. Just have it so the killer can abandon during the EGC if they wish and the match continues until the timer runs out.
I agree, either way is fine by me. I was just guessing as to the comparative difficulty between swapping in an AFK bot controller versus whatever adjustments need to be made in order to allow a killer-less match to continue. I don't know how much the match's blueprint/code references and assumes the presence of a killer.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015124#Comment_4015124
i would much prefer the match just ended when survivors abandon. who wants to go round hooking slugged bots? at that point killer won, get it to end screen and move on. if you want to play with bots play custom matches. but when players abandon thats it, match over.
if a bot was to replace the killer when all survivors are at the gate, then what? people would walk an inch to exit the match anyway. why implement a bot when people wont hang around to t bag the bot? based on the fact killers dont farm survivor bots for BP survivors wouldnt use the killer bot for end game BP like they do with a real player so it makes no sense to create a bot for survivors to have no interaction with.
I would prefer a player not be able to dictate when a match is over for other players just by quitting. If you're done - great. Abandon. You're out. Whether someone else is continuing to play has no effect on you. If they're done then, well, they'll leave too. If not then that's up to them.
You know killers earn BP for hooking or performing a mori on the last downed survivor even if that survivor abandoned, yes? That said, I don't think it's about farming BP from the killer anyway.
Like I said though, I'm kind of over even entertaining this as a possibility. No, killers don't get to abandon. I was on board until it became part of the design spec that it absolutely needs to affect other people too.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015114#Comment_4015114
Why not? Because it was super unfun and a huge waste of time for killers chasing survivors through the void in past events. Don’t pretend that all survivor teams treat this as a casual, fun mode.
You forgot to mention that fog crystals auto-repair gens which seems awfully strong to me. I’ve had several times already where playing as survivor I was able to finish off gens by putting a crystal on them and running off to distract killer or save a teammate.And maybe you might consider not pretending many killers aren't going full, curb stomp, try hard mode at 5 gens during this event.
The auto-repair is balanced with the killer's version speeding up regression. That function already has a counterpart.
Additionally - you know what would be easier and less risky than finding a portal, opening it or just going in, running over to the center, depositing your void energy, picking up your crystal, running back to a portal, running to a gen, and activating the crystal? Just staying on gens in the first place.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015092#Comment_4015092
i dont care if there is a bot or not im just saying its not needed because when the match is over its over so the argument of denying killer the abandon option purely on the basis that there is no killer bot isnt valid. just like in stalemate conditions, its time to end the match, not prolong it by using a bot to chase people out instead.
as a survivor i dont hang around the gate so bot or no bot makes no difference to me, when the gates are open im outta there. besides, survivors taking 10min to do gens isnt a stalemate because either they avoid gens and get the afk crows or they do the gens slowly and carefully which means the killer will eventually run out of gen kicks. There are mechanics already in place to stop these stalemates happening so the abandon option isnt for that purpose.
So lets go for experience parity then. The moment the last survivor abandons everyone is removed from the match and shown the end screen. Wanted to watch that mori animation? Wanted to actually hook those slugs? Nah, we got places to be and since the last survivor decided the match is over then the killer doesn't get a say.
I was willing to entertain the possibility of a system like this but if asking that it be implemented in a way that doesn't just kick everyone out of a match is too much then no.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015099#Comment_4015099
Because it shouldn’t be a safe haven to take killers on minutes-long wild goose chases between portals like it has been in past events?
Why not? I didn't realize this was comp mode and not an optional fun seasonal event mode where survivors spend more time kicking pumpkins than doing gens.
If we're looking to balance seasonal mechanics how about we make fog crystals heal instead of that useless cloud since killers get an attack with theirs?
The void is a guaranteed down unless you hit someone immediately next to a portal. It's not just not a safe haven, it's a death trap.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015017#Comment_4015017
true but my point is the argument of "we need a bot if the killer abandons so survivors can do hatch challenges and other end game stuff" is redundant because this situation of instant match ending already exists. 2 v 1 being perfect example where 2 survivors both know they cant do gens especially if they are close together. they hide or do gens very very slowly…10min later…abandon, match over….technically after 10min it could trigger egc but it doesnt. it just ends the match if killer decides to do that.
If survivors want certain challenges such as hatch, totems or whatever else, they wouldnt be waiting at the gate would they? someone going for hatch escape is going to be near a hatch spawn, not the gates. The proposed abandon option for killers is when ALL remaining survivors are at the gate, not hooked, not slugged, not roaming around for the hatch, not in the middle of the map doing a totem. even challenges like escape however many times, why wait at the gate when the challenge is escape? killer abandoning in these situations makes no difference to the survivors or challanges. At most it would put a dampener on the heal x amount of times. But that alone isnt enough of a reason to justify killers being forced to endure tbagging at the gates every time, just heal during the match like normal.
A stalemate abandon function intentionally doesn't include a bot because if it did the stalemate could just continue. The design expressly calls for the match to just end.
A system designed to let the killer skip the ECG does not expressly require the match to suddenly end. All it requires is that the killer player can exit the match.
Why do you care if there's a simplistic AFK bot or not? Do you want something more than just being able to leave the match? Why?
Personally I think matches just suddenly ending is an awkward, clumsy, and jolting experience in a match. We shouldn't scope creep the amount of scenarios where this can happen without there being a good reason for it to need to be that way.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014987#Comment_4014987
is the killer replaced by a bot when they abandon after 10min of no gens being done?
That's arguably a different situation. The EGC is a normal phase of a match that is intended to happen (provided a 4k doesn't happen beforehand). 10 minutes of the game not progressing isn't the same as 2 minutes of end game collapse which is inherently the game progressing.
Also, consider that the 10 minute, no activity abandon feature is partially there to prevent stalemates from dragging on into hour long matches. It would kind of defeat the point if it didn't end the match in that instance.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014973#Comment_4014973
Given that you NEED video evidence if someone is say….flying around the map and instantly downing someone, I doubt it.
It's probably 100% likely that players can be framed and, unless you're recording all of your games, you're potentially out of luck.
My phrasing was not what I intended there - I agree, I don't think they log things with the fidelity needed to determine whether someone was cheating. You wouldn't need video evidence if you have a data point saying a killer downed someone in one corner of RPD and another one saying 4 seconds later they downed someone in the complete opposite corner.
I could also see them forgetting to turn that off or adjust it during events that give everyone effective teleports like the rift portals in this Halloween event so maybe it's a blessing and a curse that they don't have automated systems like that. :P
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I would hope they log things like actions taken, duration of action performed, health state transition events, stun/blind events, etc. Then again if they did they wouldn't need video evidence to catch cheaters. A situation like you're describing is kind of concerning - I don't know that they could tell the difference if someone other than the cheater recorded and reported you without realizing you're not the one causing it.
Best case I see is that they can tell if you're causing it based on what animations they see your character play at the time an observable event happens. I don't think they actually log much of anything when it comes to gameplay.
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They said they were going to come back and provide the community with an outline of what their guidelines are for when a killswitch is warranted right? Did they ever circle back around on that? I don't recall seeing anything.
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If anyone is having trouble locating the e-mail but you think you've signed up for the newsletter try searching for [email protected]. Gmail had mine buried somewhere.
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So long as they made it so that it works similar to how it does when a survivor abandons then I don't see the issue. Replace the killer with an effectively AFK bot that does nothing, that way the same bot can be used for any killer. It doesn't need to understand different powers - the game is over. Abandon is conceding the match - not tagging in a bot to play the rest of the match.
This will allow things like trying to complete rift quests for getting hatch to still be accomplished since the survivor has to wait to be the last person on the map in order to accomplish what they need. It would actually be a buff to that but if the killer wants to quit then that's their decision.
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I think it would be neat if the fog crystals would fully do a gen as if there's a person on it but maybe at reduced speed and cause a beacon to show for the killer indicating that there's a fog crystal working on whatever gen it's on (like with maps but the killer can see it).
That way it's actually useful for something and opens up some different situational plays that aren't just more of the same you get in normal modes.
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@Abbzy said:
Just be friendly or dissapear with instadown killer they will look for you and they will find you, which gives you few hooks per game better than nothing and if you feel bad at loosing i think this even has no mmr because Im getting survivors that are way bellow my level but hard to say if its luck or no mmr or bhvr moment.
I don't have a source for this but I vaguely remember reading somewhere that MMR isn't enabled for event lobbies. I could be misremembering something though.
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@[Deleted User] said:
The "funny" thing is, that by now most event games for me look like this:
- 4 survivors just run around kicking pumpkins, obviously just doing event quests, not tryharding at all. Gens? Nah. Rather clickediclack that fancy Halloween flashlight. And kick pumpkins of course.
- 1 killer sweats his buttocks off in the lobby like it is a freaking tournament.
The fun thing is, that the event games count towards the official DbD stats and probably also the MMR then (?). I do not know if that is a good idea, because some of these survivors staining their shoes with orange right now might play "normal" in normal queue again when the time has come. But well.
After a few frustrating survivor matches I queued up as a friendly Skull Merchant. I don't care if I screw up her stats since I don't really play her anyway and figured I'd try and pay it forward a little bit.
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@[Deleted User] said:
One must add tho, that it is only if you play the event itself.
The presets/builds in the normal queue are still there.
But yes, it is annoying and it was happening in past events as well.
I did not even think to check that; yeah, normal mode is still fine thankfully. I've never noticed that before but then again I just came back from a break before this year's anniversary event so I haven't gone through many recent events. That is slightly less frustrating.
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@cogsturning said:
Oh that sucks. Cosmetics too or just perks?
Oddly the cosmetics seem fine - bunny feng is still her usual self appearance-wise. At least there's that, lol.
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The first match I had in this event was fun only because the Huntress was goofing around with us. Second match I quickly found out why it's better to avoid event mechanics as much as possible. I filled up the soul thing in the void, killer downed me before I could pick up the crystal I just paid for, and killer took whatever it is killers get based solely on my efforts and not having to deposit a single bit of void energy themselves. No idea if I even got any bloodpoints for any of that or if it was all just lost.
I'd rather just do gens myself - it's not like i can accidently buff the killer by doing that.
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@chatgiraffe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013933#Comment_4013933
What single Killer addon can swing a match as much as a brown medkit with a styptic. One endurance hit can do so much, especially against M1 killers with all the pallets there are now.
You know you can just wait 5 seconds and then smack them right? That endurance doesn't last forever. Or just smack them twice. A 5 second endurance effect is almost never going to swing an entire match. Is that now much of a robotic flow chart like play style we're optimizing this game into now? The match not going your way for a handful of seconds and you're boned?
I'm not going to research every killer add-on in the game for a forum argument but a few off the top of my head that are more powerful or better time wasters than a med-kit: Krasue's Chicken Head, Wesker's Oroboros vial, Pig's Jigsaw's Sketch
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The community likes to optimize and counter their way out of having to engage with mechanics that are meant to be engaged with. God forbid a hatch spawn and a killer can't leisurely get themselves a 4k. Can't have them risk only getting a 3k victory if they don't win the race to find the hatch.
Sarcasm about entitled killers aside, I wouldn't call it holding the game hostage. It's playing like a jerk, but not holding the game hostage.
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For me survivor queue time is instant with several minute long killer queue times for all but about 3-4 hours after midnight.
Yesterday was an odd anomaly - pretty much all day had killer queue times hovering around 10 seconds even when survivor queue times were low as well. Not really sure what was happening there - maybe Sundays are just like that and I've never paid attention.
Right now it's back to a 7:1 killer:survivor ratio.
There's no killer exodus - just people doom posting.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014160#Comment_4014160
You mixing it up and making it more complex than it is exposed and endurance are both tools that help each side to progress their objective and slowdown other sides objective. Endurence is in survivors favor it wont get you downed when the killer should down you and help you by buying you and yours teammates precius time you both need to make progress in your objective and slow killers objective, same goes for your m1 reduction cooldown and loop resources (paletts and walls) which help survivor too but they arent as specific as endurance effect same goes for exposed effect its something that comes in specific situations or is created by specific powers,perks,addons its not common as paletts. Exposed effect just makes killers chase time shorter, saving his precious time and helps him progress the game and his objective to create preasure on survivors snd killing them faster then he would with m1 (taking just one health state).
Bloodlust isnt more fitting its just speedboost and endurance is having one health state more and exposed is just dealing one health state more damage than just m1 or simular attack that just deals one health state damage so they are more connected then the other things like bloodlust or m1 cooldown you mentioned.
Just so I'm clear, you think the outcome of being on the ground, unable to do anything for a survivor player is the same as the outcome of having to chase the survivor a little longer and hit them again for the killer? Flat out ending a chase on hit is the same as extending a chase on hit? Do you think shortening and ending feel the same for the players involved?
I'm not arguing for or against either mechanic - I'm just saying they aren't the opposite of each other when you consider the outcome having them in play produces.
From my personal experience, I am cautious and comparatively paranoid when exposed as a survivor and as a killer I'm maybe a little annoyed but otherwise couldn't give a crap if someone has endurance. That doesn't strike me as equally powerful or impactful opposite effects operating in the same space. It certainly doesn't strike me as usable in a 'imagine if the other side had…' argument the OP is making.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014111#Comment_4014111
The whole point of chase is killer will eventualy down you without endurence effect and bodyblocks so your whole job in chase is last as long as you can so your teammates can do gens, its 1v4 not 1v1 and down is in killets favor but lasting longer in chase is in survivors favor and only for the one who is being chased but for whole team.
This is a discussion about whether endurance and exposure as mechanics are 2 sides of the same coin. It doesn't matter if one is in the killers favor and one is in the survivor's favor - that's an extremely simplistic interpretation that makes everything the equivalent of everything else. By that definition dropping a pallet or hiding your scratch marks would be a survivor version of exposed mechanics.
Shortening a chase is the opposite of extending it. Ending a chase in the killer's favor is the opposite of ending the chase in the survivor's favor. They're not the same thing.
Bloodlust or M1 cooldown reductions are arguably more fitting for consideration as the opposite of endurance when it comes to chase outcomes.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013976#Comment_4013976
Its same because exposed just skips that one hit you have to get later in chase and endurance just makes chase last longer by extending it with that one hit that would put you into dying state and giving you one more so technicaly they are the same one helps one side to end chase faster (exposed effect) and other helps second side to extend chase when you should go down (endurance effect).
The mirror of ending a chase in the killer's favor is ending a chase in the survivor's favor. Getting downed does end it in the killer's favor but taking an extra hit doesn't end the chase in the survivor's favor. They didn't escape the chase - they're still in chase. I don't view them as equivalent outcomes.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013979#Comment_4013979
So you aren't going to comment on the fact that I was replying to someone that said…
"Enough with the survivor item nerfs already.
Remember when BNP's used to instantly pop a gen?"
Correct, I am not - It's irrelevant to the question.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013791#Comment_4013791
Then enough with the killer nerfs already.
Remember when mori offerings used to work when survivors at 0 hook states?
And self-healing with a medkit still saves way too much time, considered that the healing time for altruistic healing needs to be doubled if it involves two people. And the altruistic healing cost also includes the extra time players take to travel to each other (if it's not being healed after being unhooked), that doesn't exist in self-healing.
That was around the time brand new parts flat out completed a generator when used. Want to go back to that too?
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There's differences between endurance and exposed mechanics.
Hit a survivor when they're exposed and it's over - chase done, survivor loses. Hit a survivor when they have endurance and it's not over. They don't automatically win the chase - you CAN just hit them again. It extends the chase - sure, but that's not an equivalent outcome to just ending it.
There's killer powers, a good number of perks, and killer add-ons that apply exposed effects in a variety of circumstances. Not precisely on demand, but pretty close? Yeah if they build for it.
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I was wondering what the issue with the rift was so I scrolled through it and wow - there is practically nothing on the free track. Like a couple of banners or badges, one survivor outfit and the spooky sheet ghost Dredge cosmetic - that's it? I'm currently not in a place where I can blow disposable income on the paid track so other than noticing it seems pretty packed I didn't really look through it too much beyond seeing what the Trickster skin was.
Don't get me wrong - I love the sheet ghost concept and all but for it to be the only thing I care about in this rift and practically at the very end makes the whole thing a very 'meh' experience.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013563#Comment_4013563
Think of it as nerfing S-tier survivor items.
People seem super fine with asking for S-tier killers to be nerfed, so asking for S-tier survivor items to be nerfed should be ok too.
Tier lists are meaningless except to compare relative power of the items listed within them. Something being S tier doesn't tell you how powerful or impactful it actually is.
Remove every killer in the game except Ghostface, Trapper, and Skull Merchant. Congratulations - you still have an S, a B, and an F tier. That doesn't suddenly make Ghostface overpowered and it doesn't suddenly translate to him needing a nerf.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013543#Comment_4013543
Then that needs to be nerfed to, so other items feel more useful. Maybe the self-healing speed can be nerfed.
But whatever it is, the problem are the medkits and tookboxes. Because buffing fog vials won't change the fact that the maps and keys are also underused because they aren't considered as useful as a medkit.
Maps and keys aren't comparatively useless, they're just useless - no adverb needed. You can't make them useful by making other items equally useless - the only thing that does is make everything useless. Items aren't meant to just be cosmetics.
I think the rarity of styptics and syringes justifies their power but I can at least understand people who argue otherwise. Arguing that a common rarity med-kit with common rarity add-ons needs a nerf is a completely nonsensical argument to me.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
Fog vials should never have been introduced before medkit and toolbox reworks, because it's not fair for items to compete with overpowered addons like syringes.
The actual problem are the medkits and toolboxes, which needs major reworks like the maps and keys did, so that the medkits and toolboxes are closer in power to the other items.
I usually run a common camping aid kit with common butterfly tape and common bandages as addons. They're more useful than post-nerf fog vials and I'm far more likely to encounter a situation where I'm guaranteed to get more value out of it.
It doesn't take a syringe or a styptic to out compete what fog vials were nerfed into. The only time I've used them post-nerf is when I've had literally nothing else in my hands and I found one in a chest.