MDRSan
MDRSan
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I think what's getting skipped here is that in order to prevent her from having her power be able to down wounded survivors, survivors have to play wounded. That's not inconsequential.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4072961#Comment_4072961
Blood gens are faster than regular ones also the progress is more explosive because one full blood can fills like 1/3 or 1/4 of blood gen and all i depends on blood pumps which can still spawn near blood gens.
Hooks are more in corners or missing because blood pumps spawn instead of them so sometimes important hooks are missing like near mains ect., survivors move more so it can be harder to find them than its in normal mode.
I had done in 5 games 3 adepts with ease and escaped a lot latter because of howthis mode is bit essier than regular one. On killer I played both modes and even when I got sweatier teams and swf in regular mode I had more wins there than in this mode because bloodgens are harder to stop.
Blood gens are faster than regular ones also the progress is more explosive because one full blood can fills like 1/3 or 1/4 of blood gen and all i depends on blood pumps which can still spawn near blood gens.
They're really not unless you ignore all the time spent getting the blood into a can and carrying that can back to the gen. It only feels faster because the bar moves faster when you're on the gen and you aren't thinking about the 10-20 seconds you spent getting that blood can filled and to the gen. After the novelty of blood gens wore off I spent the rest of my survivor time in this event wishing for normal gens.
Hooks are more in corners or missing because blood pumps spawn instead of them so sometimes important hooks are missing like near mains ect., survivors move more so it can be harder to find them than its in normal mode.
That has not been my experience in this event. Scourge hooks maybe but generic hooks - there's always one nearby. Survivors moving more is a double edged sword. They might not be on a gen but they're more easily spotted just walking out in the open between blood pumps and gens. Catch them in the open and guess what happens to all that blood gen progress they're carrying in their hands - poof!
From a survivor perspective, between sticking my neck out and walking blood back and forth from blood pumps to blood gens and sitting nice and comparatively cozy in a jungle gym with a regular gen I'll take the jungle gym and regular gen.
On killer I played both modes and even when I got sweatier teams and swf in regular mode I had more wins there than in this mode because bloodgens are harder to stop.
If you get the common spawn pattern of 3 blood pumps super close to each other then blood gens are very easy to stop. Camp the pumps. Its obnoxious but there's not much anything other than coordinated teams can do about it.
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I imagine it shares rarity with blood moon eye ball and map offerings so every time I see an eye or map that's something that otherwise could have rolled the dice into a party streamer. I have noticed I'm getting them comparatively more frequently on killer blood webs so that's why I'm assuming the maps are in the same pool since they're not there to compete for space on killer.
Similar to you, I have noticed I'm getting close to none on my survivors' blood webs even when I manually go through spending blood points rather than the bulk spend.
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It really hasn't been my experience that this event is particularly survivor sided.
Blood Gens aren't that great and certainly aren't as efficient as some make them out to be. Once you include the time spent finding and running to a blood pump, filling a blood can, and running back to the gen then it can easily take as long or longer than if you were just doing a regular gen. Get caught by the killer while you have a blood can in your hand and all that 'progress' is suddenly negated because as you're chased you're losing blood which which makes filling the can wasted time.
Now add to that the fact that it greatly extends the area in which you CAN be caught out by the killer while doing a single gen from just the gen to a whole path between the gen and a blood pump.
Blood Pumps and their habit of spawning in clusters frequently gift the killer a 3 gen setup from the start of the match. There are not enough regular gens to just do them and not blood gens so you can't really do anything about it besides accept that it's going to suck if the killer figures out that they should hang around the blood pumps.
Is it killer sided? I don't know - between the mechanics, the fact that MMR is all over the place, and the frenzying effect events seem to have on killers I can't say WHY more survivor matches are miserable than usual but I can say that they ARE more miserable than usual (in my experience). Either way I do feel confident in saying it's at least NOT survivor sided.
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I feel like it would be less of a problem had they not downed him to 4.4 - he's feeling pretty rough on maps with lots of LOS blockers when the survivors play well.
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The irony here is face camping Bubbas are exactly why the anti-face camping system exists.
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This entire event has been like a 7:10 match ratio where a killer plays super aggressively right at 5 gens and stomps us in solo queue, 1:10 where it seems to be a baby killer, 1:10 where we're equally matched, and 1:10 where the killer wants to farm. Over all, 7 in 10 matches teach me to stop wasting pies on this dumpster fire of an event.
Get your own stupid blood points - you're not getting a percent modifier out of me. 😋
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Wouldn’t that just make him a better stealth killer than any other actual stealth killer?
I don’t usually engage with the camera system not just because the rewards aren’t that good but also because the coverage is so spotty that I’m not getting line of sight on anything anyway so what’s the point? Meanwhile I’d be leaving myself vulnerable while my face is shoved in a camera to a killer that could be behind me as easily as he could be across the map.
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Slugging for the 4k is just an obnoxious experience most of the time. I get it if the other person is literally in eyeshot but if the killer has no idea where the other survivor is - just freaking hook. The whole point of the hatch is that there is supposed to be a last ditch, possibility for escape for the last person present in a match. Intentionally avoiding a phase of the match that is intended to be there is a cheese.
I had a match the other day where the killer went through 3 rounds of a cycle where he'd down the other person, I'd run in and get them up once I had an opening from them going off to look for me, then they'd come back and down me, then repeat. The desperate need to dominate us rather than risk the possibility of a freaking normal 3k win was ridiculous.
There was another one where after a night of wasting one pie offering after another on killers playing the event like their lives depended on minimizing any blood points the survivors could earn that I got absolutely sick of it and hid in a locker. It's not like I could get to them anyway - the killer was guaranteed to see me based on where the slug was and their patrol pattern. I legitimately stopped caring about the match at that point and made it my goal to be as obnoxious as I could possibly be right back at that player. It takes 2 to tango - I wasn't the one who left them on the ground without hooking them.
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@Nazzzak said:
I think I'm one of those rare folk who doesn't mind Badham as either killer or survivor, but miss me with Nostromo. It's an eyesore and I get it way too much.
I'm similar on Badham - I don't mind it regardless of what role I'm playing. People look at me like I'm crazy when I say that though. Nostromo I don't hate but I definitely don't want to get it constantly and can't really describe why. I do feel like I've seen both of them a lot over the past day or two.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
I don't think its just xeno, ive seen weskers/clowns/doctors and even a krasue get force dc'ed mid animation out of several matches, not even effecting the survivors
Yeah, I've been cycling through killers and just had it happen to Twins too. Annoying that it eats your offering - I've been bringing anniversary offerings but I don't want to burn them for nothing.
I guess I'll switch to event eyes if it's going to be chewing through my rare stuff.
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I'm not necessarily worried yet. As soon as it sinks in to killer players that this change means survivor perks are going to get buffed numbers since they don't need to be artificially lowered to account for stacking anymore the forum outcry has a good chance to make this go the way of anti-tunnel/anti-slug mechanics. I mean, can you imagine if some survivor perks were actually as strong as their convoluted setup suggests.
That said, it doesn't personally affect me - I run a more generalized, multi-purpose build anyway (Stake Out, Lithe, Botany, Kindred).
How will the outrage farmers who set up custom matches with complicated and unrealistic pre-setup conditions to get crazy speeds on a single gen farm their community's rage now? They have families to feed!
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If I'm in the mood to farm and someone doesn't want to play along I just leave them alone. They can do gens if they want, I'll just go play with one of the other survivors that do want to farm. I don't really get the need to specifically target them - honestly I usually just assume they don't realize what I'm doing.
I don't really purely farm that often though because I've noticed it seems to get me stuck in a cycle of lobbies that only want to farm and then I feel bad for eventually wanting to play normal against someone playing a tambourine for me.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/465851/bloodmoon-meta
Every single event someone complains about killers doing the objective and killing. This is DBD. No killer is obligated to stop killing and no survivor is obligated to stop doing gens. This isn't a problem This is doing the objective
I don't see anyone here complaining about killers doing the objective and killing. I see people complaining that they're doing it in a way that is oppressive and overkill. They're 2 different things. It's not a matter of doing the objective vs. not doing the objective. It's playing like a jerk vs. not.
When I switch to killer I don't avoid killing survivors, I just don't play as if they're NPCs whose gameplay experience is irrelevant. If I have half the team on death hook at 4 or 5 gens then it's a pretty safe bet I can dial it back a bit and still get a 4k. No need to steamroll before they can accomplish anything other than ego and a total disregard for how miserable I'm making the other side's game. Not steamrolling gets more blood points anyway.
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My personal experience has been that yes, killers are playing noticeably more aggressively in this event mode. I have seen way more hard tunneling and several person slugging right off the bat than I've seen on regular matches. I also have yet to see a single match where someone has the opportunity to but doesn't slug for the 4k even when they have no idea where the other remaining survivor actually is. I've seen basement hooks being camped just outside of anti-face camp range, a bubba slugging 3 team mates across half the map before bothering to pick 1 up, killers completely disregarding anyone but the person who was just unhooked - all at 5 gens.
From the perspective of at least this one person who plays a bit of survivor, blood gens are not all that. Unless you get real lucky with a blood pump being near one then it's not faster when you consider the whole process. Half the time I'm annoyed that I can't find a regular gen.
I've routinely got to the point where I'm like - you know what, if you think you're getting another cake out of me then you can suck it.
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My issue with the current way the system works is that it incentivizes the wrong behavior for people who are legitimately having connection issues.
Say someone has their internet flake out during a match. They figure it's a fluke and the next few matches go fine until their 8th match and boom - another outage. They haven't gone their requisite 20 matches for that first DC to be forgiven so now they have a 5 minute penalty. How do they get rid of that penalty? By trying to queue up again knowing full well their internet has been spotty. If it was just time based then people who were having legitimate connection issues and make the correct decision to just quit trying for the moment would be rewarded by not having to deal with a penalty for something that isn't something they're intentionally doing.
That said, I do think they have reasonable buffers built in that they don't necessarily tell us about for obvious reasons - I've had a couple times where my connection was being flakey for an evening and I don't remember seeing a penalty.
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It's really tempting to just stop wasting cakes or party streamers after some of these matches. I've seen more instances of hard tunneling right off the bat at 5 gens since the start of this Blood Moon than I recall seeing anytime recently in the normal game.
I've been dialing it back a notch on my killer matches so everyone can get blood points and I'm not just railing on the survivors. Other than a couple of pure farming killers I've run into I have not experienced any sort of modulated intensity from killers I've faced in my survivor matches.
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@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4068311#Comment_4068311
Not just this. Everytime time comp survs team together against Momo he loses with 3 to 4 man out. When its comp killer vs comp surv on the same level, the Swf takes advantage. The issues is that there are very few survivors who can compete on the same level as Momo playing Blight.
Too bad it needs almost 1900 matches to get one where the odds are more even for both sides.
I think this is a good demonstration of just how common super coordinated teams that use voice comms, synergize perks, play sweaty, etc. really are. To hear some on the forum complaining about survivors you'd think they were going up against seal team six who blow through gens in seconds every other match, not every couple thousand matches.
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I mean, they also could have just tuned the milestones down if they were that worried about attainability. :P
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I wish more event blood point bonus items would stack as well - they can keep the stipulation that they only work during the event if they're really concerned about runaway bp bonuses the rest of the year. It just feels wrong that the objectively 'best' offering to bring for blood points during an event is never the offerings you get during the actual event (aside from anniversary events obviously).
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4038505#Comment_4038505
If you meant what you said, then tunnelling might not be as prevalent as everyone says.
The perk is going to be free, so there's no reason not to bring it if tunnelling is such a common thing. And if you choose not bring it, then you have no one else to blame but yourself if you do get tunnelled. That's the risk you'll have to accept.
DS is a powerful perk, even if it doesn't get activated.
I have no idea why it doesn't seem to happen directly to me as much as it does to others but I do see it happen frequently to people I unhook. If I'm not the one getting tunneled then all I've done is reduced myself to playing as if I only have 3 perk slots.
Just because a survivor isn't psychic and doesn't want to waste a perk slot on something that counters a situation that hasn't happened to them in more than a handful of matches doesn't make it their fault if they get tunneled. If you insist on painting it as someone's fault then you might want to start with the player who chose to tunnel.
I can't imagine killers actually want to see all survivors start to run DS. With as much as they doom posted when the last PTB made hard tunneling slightly more inconvenient I'm pretty sure this is just about shifting the blame onto survivor players as if they were asking for it.
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I'd say the fact that I'm not psychic and I don't know if I'm going to be tunneled prior to a given match is a perfectly valid reason to not mindlessly run DS in every build.
Perks are not valid counters to things you need to be clairvoyant to see coming.
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@Wezqu said:
This just shows how badly game licenses is handled by licensing companies. Like would it not make more money to let licenses to be able to be used by more than one company. That is not going to make you more money in the long run.
I have no idea what the specifics are for anything in reality here but I could imagine a scenario where this is the optimal play:
Say license x was in DBD for years now as a DLC, earns 5% of each $10 DLC sale, and requires renewal every year. Now imagine there's a new game coming out that offers 15% of each $60 full game price sale but requires exclusivity. If the estimated new game sales are anywhere near even 60% to 70% of the estimated DLC sales for that particular year then it's a better financial decision to go with the full game. Sure, the new game might not be around in a year but that's fine - they can just go right back to licensing property x as DLC in DBD once the renewal is up. It's not like BHVR are going to tell them 'nope, we don't want property x anymore'.
It's not good for the games, not good for the fans, and I don't like it but if you're looking at it from a financial/don't care about the property other than money perspective then exclusivity agreements can make sense.
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As surprised as I am that Meyers is no longer going to be purchasable, I'm more astonished Haddonfield is no longer going to exist. I know conceptually that's been a possibility since that's what happened with Stranger Things and Hawkins but it just feels weird that Haddonfield is not going to be a thing anymore.
Maybe we could get a generic suburb slasher map.
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@iOverSpray said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036107#Comment_4036107
You mentioned "maps" being spoon fed to killers. I simply named just 1 that isn't even playable for most killers and you defend it.
No, I questioned if killers are so used to maps being designed around spoon feeding them survivors that any time there isn't one that does that it's considered a big problem. Then, as if to prove my point for me, you trotted out killer's favorite boogeyman map - Badham.
I didn't defend anything - I just mentioned that I personally like the map whether I'm playing survivor or killer. That's not a defense, that's just saying I like it. If you want a defense then here - It's been my experience that it's perfectly winnable as killer. You have to actually think about where survivors would go and have some map sense - but that's just how maps that aren't designed to funnel survivors straight into your weapon work. My personal experience on that map tells me that anyone who says they literally can't ever win are being disingenuous or on copium regarding their own skill issue.
Sometimes I swear I'm the only person who plays killer in this game that isn't terrified of that map.
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Personally I'd imagine it works the same way at least for stat tracking and MMR gains or losses since it's basically the same as a regular 1v4 match. The only difference is you're guaranteed to get a specific map which you still could have otherwise gotten anyway so there's not really any reason to calculate things differently.
Whether the queue uses the usual MMR matching though I could see them wanting to broaden the pool of players for each side and making that work a little more loosely.
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@iOverSpray said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035774#Comment_4035774
We must not play the same game if you think badham holds killers hands. In 2025 there should be a clear understanding of what makes a map fun and or fair for both sides. Obviously, there isn't.
Who said anything about Badham? We were talking about Ormond. Personally I like Badham on both killer and survivor but I know that's not a common opinion.
I prefer maps that feel like they have actual buildings rather than randomly generated patterns of rocks, debris, and stacked junk.
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Have killers gotten so used to maps spoon feeding them survivors by now that any time there's a map that doesn't blatantly do so it's some huge problem? Personally I don't mind Ormond Lake Mine as killer or survivor but I haven't played it since this last update. Given that 9.3 was another big gift to killers that nerfed pallets, buildings, and jungle gyms for survivors I sincerely doubt it was made more difficult for killer players if it was changed at all.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035456#Comment_4035456
I've actually been doing surprisingly well as survivor. I think it's cause I already sucked at looping and there might as well be no pallets anyway lol
What's trash though is I've seen an uptick in anti-looping perks like Blood Favor. Like really guys, how easy must it be?
Maybe it was just the Gas Heaven maps or a bad string of random tile selection then. I was mainly playing those map showcase modes and really wasn't even seeing tiles that were particularly loopable besides just running around a stack of cars to squeeze a few more seconds out of a chase. I guess I could give things another chance but I'm dubious.
Blood Favor is ridiculous though. Killer complaints got most pallets turned into unsafe, stun only, party pallet equivalents and they can't even deal with that. A killer can literally just walk around them and get a hit, and they're still not worthless enough for them. Is there any survivor mechanic or resource a killer will not cheese, wait out, or otherwise negate via perk to where it may as well not exist in the game in the first place?
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I myself haven't really played much since the day or 2 after the patch dropped. After seeing the results of pushing those untested tile changes to live I'm pretty much done bothering with this game until the Winter event starts. Even then, it's just FOMO and not really wanting to play that'll be bringing me to matches.
With this new change they just didn't remove pallets, they changed the remaining ones to be completely unsafe and even updated tiles and buildings without pallets to be less loopable. I'm feeling very discouraged from playing any survivor matches after 9.3. Meanwhile I'm still 4King every killer match I've played. No one has even gotten hatch against me since the update dropped. Basically every match either has me feeling like I'm being steamrolled as a survivor or punching down as a killer. How am I supposed to find either scenario fun?
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If you have a killer that can zoom around the map as quickly as Kaneki can but has zero other powers, they're already going to be very powerful. Closing distance is itself an extremely strong ability and with the amount of distance Kaneki can close very quickly it gives him an immense amount of map pressure.
Now add an easy to land, guaranteed hit to wound ability that can be triggered at a distance that also holds a survivor in place while it lands. Now they're even stronger.
Now tack on all the other techs and cheeses people use with Kaneki and he's easily oppressive.
A problem with Kaneki's design is that while he's fun to play, he's only not oppressive provided the killer decides not to play him like a jerk. How a match goes is mostly up to the killer's skill and temperament - it's their game to lose. I don't know how he could be fixed since being able to zip around so freely is both what makes him so fun and what makes him so broken.
People like to claim his counterplay is looping but running around a rock a few extra times doesn't actually affect matches when he makes that time up by immediately spidermanning off to his next chase as soon as he's hooked someone. It also doesn't help when the killer realizes spending some time chasing people off gens rather than committing to each and every chase can be effective in keeping the survivors from making any progress (especially given that he can get from any gen to any gen very quickly).
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Plenty of survivor perks and mechanics get disabled if survivors are doing well with their objective and get gens done. It makes sense that some killer perks or mechanics could use some disable conditions tacked on if they're already doing really well in the match.
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@YaBoi0215 said:
The gen rushing and bullying is so bad, there's no reason to even play killer
If they are unwilling to dissuade survivors from garbage tactics then they should put the last nail in the coffin.
Do you see how idiotic and childish you sound? You survivor mains are so used to being spoon fed wins that when you can't 4 out in 2 minutes will running the killer around for an additional 5 you just complain the game is dead and unplayable. Why not actually get some skill and stop complaining when killers play the optimal way. Always double standards with survivor mains.
It certainly can’t be that some of us play a pretty even 50:50 split of survivor and killer and have first hand experience of how easy it is to 4K as a killer and how much effort escaping in solo queue takes in the vast majority of games now could it?
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Not that killers really need to worry about looping much now that map tiles have been reduced to a few trees and a rock. I’m sure we’ll be seeing YouTube videos about how the rock is ridiculously overpowered here shortly.
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@grumpelfox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4032149#Comment_4032149
they havent made a good update in years . do you know what the world record for 5 gens + opening the gates and escaping is … 2 minutes… and 45 seconds. tell me how is that healthy . the devs want to "respect the players time " right but how is a killers time respected ?
A world record that required a lot of setup, tries, luck, a favorable map configuration, and a misplaying killer who leaves the whole team alone to do that doesn't have anything to do with how matches actually play out for the vast majority of players. Meanwhile, killer streamers face roll their way into 4K kill streaks on a daily basis.
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@grumpelfox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4032148#Comment_4032148
explain to me how the game is killer sided when you can do 3 sprint bursts in a row . if the game was killer sided surely the devs would be asking our opinion right ? tell me .. where in the last survey did they ask killers about their opinions .. your a survivor so im gonna have to help you here .. they didnt.
Tell me, where in the last 2 patches did they actually do anything about survivor opinions? You see, it doesn't matter if they ask someone's opinion if they don't do anything about it.
Killers managed to nuke 2 patches all without a survey. (unless you count the surveys that did actually ask killer opinions. but we don't acknowledge those do we?)
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@BlackRabies said:
You mean they just made the weaker M1 killers more viable now? That's nice getting tired of playing only Xeno and Singularity.
It's funny how people try to frame buffs to M1 killers as if they aren't buffs to all killers at the same time. The only killer who can flat out ignore pallets is nurse - that's it. So everyone but nurse got a buff with these tile downgrades.
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@Royval said:
how about how killers felt when they were all god pallets and chainable to shack, main building?
They were never all god pallets nor were they all chainable to shack and main building. That was all just killer propaganda on YouTube played over footage of them 4King at 4 or 5 gens anyway.
Most pallets were trash that a killer could literally just walk around. Playing as killer, I only ever found the additional pallets mildly annoying, if I even noticed them at all. They certainly never stopped me from winning.
This patch is worse than just removing pallets. The jungle gyms seem worse and more rare, tiles overall are crap, there's frequently nothing to run to over most of the map that isn't basically just a rock to run around, etc.
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Every match I've been in today as survivor has been a complete steamroll except for 1 where the killer was just bad and another where the killer was obviously taking mercy on us. I look forward to the smug pricks of YouTube taking their victory lap (provided they can take a break from finding new things to whine about when it comes to survivors).
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I've been pretty evenly split between playing survivor and killer in the past but based on how frustrating the matches I've played so far today have been I'm done. I can face roll my way to a 4K on killer so I might hop on to play that when queue times aren't too bad but survivor feels pretty miserable and hopeless right now.
I'm leaning toward just being done with this game. Between the whining killers who can never get enough survivor nerfs to be satisfied, the constant killer victim complex, the content creators that stir the whole thing up - I've had about enough frustration. This is supposed to be a game that's fun for everyone. Maybe it's time to clear out some space on my hard drive.
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I've mainly been on the Gas Heaven map showcase since the update dropped today and thought it was just the map or it was just the rng of the tiles I've gotten. So far the tiles I've experienced today have been pretty crap for survivor. They're basically all the last thing you loop in order to get just a few more seconds out of a chase, only now that's all there is.
If they've done something to all maps then that's a bit concerning if they still plan on taking a de-palletification pass on next patch. It's basically a way to sneak reducing pallets to even worse than before they touched them in the first place.
On the plus side, the worse they make the survivor experience the longer killer queues will get. The longer those get, the more likely they'll be to implement a play while you wait feature to 1v4. If they do that, maybe killer players will experience just how miserable they're making the game for their counterparts.
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4031579#Comment_4031579
The strongest part of this perk is when paired with Sprint Burst/Dramaturgy, which makes it braindead to play. Go and use this combo for 10 matches, and see just how easy the game becomes.
Countering status effects are just bonus effects, and they're very strong too. I don't think a single perk should be this strong.
So it sounds like you don't like the exhaustion reduction and you don't like the status effect reduction even if they were isolated from each other. Since that covers everything it does, would you like it to do nothing but take up a perk slot and look pretty? How pointless of a perk would you like it to be?
Tell you what - we can do that if we also, at the exact same time, take a look at how oppressive certain status effects can be at their basekit levels and nerf those down as well. That work? No? We just cripple survivor perks around here? Ah yes, I forgot.
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Personally I miss the blue tint. I don't know why everything needs to be dusty, grungy, and shades of brown, yellow, or green. Cool blue feels like night time, even if the map isn't as dark as it used to be.
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Did they actually change anything with pallets this update? I've only played a few matches in the Gas Heaven showcase mode so far and the tiles have been pretty buns but I was just chalking that up to rng.
I thought they were waiting until next PTB to mess with pallets.
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@Carth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4031590#Comment_4031590
If we want to compare "bad perks" and perks with tons of "limitations" tinkerer is the poster boy for a perk that has a meh effect combined with limited activation effects that doesn't combo well with most of the killer roster. Moreso pointing out this "woe is survivor perks that could get nerfed", there's many perks that have been consigned into the garbage can for far less than a perma 30% effect reduction with no other stipulations
And just in case you are confused compare OG tinkerer that could proc an infinite number of times to it's current incarnation that only can proc once per gen. If you will picture a vigil that has the same effect but a cute little one liner "you can only help reduce one effect per survivor per trial with this perk equipped"
The thing with Tinkerer is that it just activates over the natural course of a match. The problem I have with most survivor perks is that they frequently have convoluted activation conditions that have absolutely nothing to do with their effect. Most killer perks just activate because of things that are going to happen anyway during a match.
Killer perks activate because you hook a survivor, hit a survivor, kick a generator, vault a window in chase, stand still and breathe for longer than .5 seconds, etc. These are all things you're going to be doing regardless of if you have a perk that demands it equipped.
Survivor perks activate because you open x number of chests, cleanse x number of totems, take x number of protection hits, are cool with your aura being shown to the killer, are wounded + in deep wound + it's a full moon, etc. The reason so many survivor perks are meta has as much to do with the fact that other perks are a pain in the ass to activate as it does their actual effect. That and if you aren't in a SWF coordinating your actions over Discord then most of the perks requiring team set up to either activate or provide value are pretty much a waste. Teamwork: Throw Down, Teamwork: Toughen Up, etc. - good luck with that in solo queue.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4031579#Comment_4031579
It's not 30% though, it's more than double that.
It is way too strong right now.
I don't agree with removing status effects from it completely, but the numbers should be reduced and it should not affect any killer's base power (ie. such as Freddy's snares)
Outdated wiki strikes again. Personally I don't really run it so off the top of my head I didn't have the exact number. I'd still say it's not game breaking but what do I know - I only play 50:50 and am looking for balance, not supremacy. So lets open it up to some direction. I say direction, not discussion since killers are designing survivor perks for them now. How useless would you all like this perk to be? How much would you like to hear the survivor saying to themselves 'Well that was a waste of a perk slot' after they see 1 second get knocked off their hinderance in the middle of chase?
After all, the killer rulebook for survivors clearly states if a perk actually helps a survivor escape, progress towards their objective, or god forbid extend a chase longer than a single second then it's unfair and killing the game.
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/460939/so-after-2-cancelled-ptbs
This went from a patch to help Survivors to an immediate flip to helping Killers
This. It's extra insulting to see 2 patches worth of anti-tunnel/anti-slug mechanic changes being dropped while keeping the anti-tunnel/anti-slug perk nerfs that was originally paired with those changes. Next patch killers are getting all those spooky pallets taken away.
As much as they complain about t-bagging in exit gates they're sure doing the same thing when it comes to the last 2 patches. The fact that some killer biased posters and content creators act like they're some sort of poor beleaguered underdog is ridiculous at this point.
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@OmegaXII said:
It's definitely too powerful.
A single perk that renders all Status Effect Perks useless, while making Sprint Burst / Dramaturgy extremely powerful, all without any downsides. Not to mention it gives Aura to nearby survivors too.
IMO it should only work on ONE status effect at a time, not everything. And it shouldn't work against Hindered/Exposed.
30% faster recovery hardly renders all status effect perks 'useless'. If you insist on calling it useless though, how many downsides would the killers like? Maybe it should only activate once a trial. How about it requiring totem cleansing or chest opening to activate - that old chestnut never fails to make survivor perks useless.
Since the game is being designed around the killer's rulebook for survivors these days I figured we should just cut to the chase here.
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030754#Comment_4030754
I would argue people start complaining about tunnelling ever since the constant nerfs to killers, like gutting every single gen-defense perks, so killers are more prone to tunnelling to win.
I still remembered many posts saying killers will tunnel more because of the change, but apparently many people think those are doom/threaten posts at that time. And here we are, everyone is surprisingly complain about it.
Btw, while I agree they should buff fog vials a bit, the PTB and release version was literally 'press to win chase' button, which is not healthy at all. Honestly I feel there's just no way to balance this item, either they're too powerful that wins the chase, or they're too weak that they don't do anything. It's either 'Visible', or 'Not Visible'
I would argue people start complaining about tunnelling ever since the constant nerfs to killers, like gutting every single gen-defense perks, so killers are more prone to tunnelling to win.
I still remembered many posts saying killers will tunnel more because of the change, but apparently many people think those are doom/threaten posts at that time. And here we are, everyone is surprisingly complain about it.
Tunneling has been a tactic killers crutch on since the game's inception. It didn't get any better or worse because of changes killers decide to gripe about. Just because one side says give us what we want or we'll play oppressively like jerks doesn't make giving in to them the right thing for overall game health. It's just a threat they trot out like 'we'll just play ghoul or blight' as if they aren't already playing them in the first place.
Btw, while I agree they should buff fog vials a bit, the PTB and release version was literally 'press to win chase' button, which is not healthy at all. Honestly I feel there's just no way to balance this item, either they're too powerful that wins the chase, or they're too weak that they don't do anything. It's either 'Visible', or 'Not Visible'
My experience as a killer with fog vials was that they were far from 'press to win chase' items. They rarely actually helped anyone escape me unless they specifically set them off in the middle of an area where they both broke line of sight with me and had multiple possible exit routes. Setting them off to pre-run just confirmed there was someone there and escape routes are usually fairly predictable.
They were something fun and novel to bring into matches but killer whining took care of that problem so when I'm playing survivor now it's back to my stupid, boring med-kit. Woo, such fun.
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It's not useless but not particularly useful either. In practice it just means killers will face plant holding their swing on your back for 15 seconds rather than 10 seconds if they want to tunnel. If they don't want to tunnel then it doesn't matter one way or the other.
It might make a difference in escaping the basement - that's about it.