Langweilig
Langweilig
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Singularity is easier to play, but is weaker. I would prefer the older version.
I don‘t know about Knight, but his guards are very strong in soloq and my soloq mates constantly die through them.The duration buff is very strong.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3769934#Comment_3769934
Fair, though at this point there's like 60+ perks that need serious buffs and they'll only pick a couple to slightly tweak every six months, then introduce more bad ones every chapter.
It‘s so sad that this is 100% true. They introduce too many trash perks and nerf too many good perks.
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The funny thing about this is that I loose on both sides very badly. On survivor I almost always die and we don‘t get any gens done and on killer we get half to 3/4 of the hooks, but only one or two kills.
Usually I get consistent 3-4ks in normal matches.
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Pig was still a nerf and it made her less interesting. I still wish they would buff her traps for once. They are so useless
I don‘t know about Knight and what you are talking about with alien.
For Sadako I wish they would return her first version, but the current version is at least better than the second version.
Trickster/Huntress/Chucky changes were so unnecessary and two of them were never seen after those came out.
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👎
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768339#Comment_3768339
You should change meta by buffing under picked perks, not nerfing already working things...
Nerfing top perks only creates exactly stale meta just worse.
100% this, but I doubt the devs will ever learn this.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768669#Comment_3768669
if you needed to find someone, you could check all gens very fast. From my survivor perspective this part was far more engaging than it was in version 2 and is v3.
I am not entirely sure what your talking about because it already exists in V3.
they could have just decreased the tape insertion speed to 1,5s.
They already did decrease tape insertion time. It is bigger then 1.5. They decreased it to 1 second.
If she camped the TV you could simply stay condemned until you see a opportunity.
When your fully condemned, Sadako is granted Killer instinct.
If she chased you the condemned didn’t fill up via passive condemned and it‘s not like the ability automatically kills you like with pig.
If your fully condemned, the passive build-up doesn't matter. Your going to be chased until you die.
I never played her for the condemned back then, so I didn‘t really see that as an issue, but it took more skill and was a cooler mechanic that you could work for
BVHR was changing the killer for player that were min-maxing her ability. There shouldn't be much of difference between V1 and V3 If you weren't using the mechanic in the first place.
I don‘t see slugging (except of bleeding out while everyone is downed and watching them) as an issue. There are so many perks, that work against it and even without them, it‘s incredibly risky. Slugging can either win you the match or cost you the match. In my opinion this is balanced. But changing ring drawing to no longer work on slugged survivors like they did, would have solved this too.
BVHR did see this as issue therefore decided to change it.
1.I found the old system fairer, because you couldn‘t just focus one person after another out by distroying their tape multiple times, which they were forced to grab immediately again.
This is what i am talking about with whole Pig head-trap problem. Sadako tunneling condemn was as much of a problem in original version as it was in V2. They didn't change the tunneling problem, they changed how you tunnel condemn. How you tunneled in v1 was slugging people and teleporting onto survivor that just healed off the floor and proxy camping tape holders by interrupting the tape insertion television mechanic. in V2, Tunneling occurred by breaking the tape multiple times onto one survivor and denying the ability for player that lost tape from picking up another tape. Both versions Involved funneling Condemn onto one person through different methods.
.I also started to slug every game since mobility wasn‘t viable/ available anymore in v2
The mobility was available VERY frequently. I did not feel like my mobility was impacted at all. The player the change affected were player that played character badly.
I would not say we got v1 back, because this version is closer to v2 Sadako than to v1 Sadako.
This version is closer V1 without any of the condemn strengths of V1.
Disagree there were enough ways to fix her:
No there weren't. BVHR simply does not agree with her slugging design and does not like V2 design. that is all there is to it. I have accepted this and moved on.
I am not entirely sure what your talking about because it already exists in V3.
Since v2 survivors are encouraged to shut down all TVs, which denies to find survivors and instantly being in chase.
They already did decrease tape insertion time. It is bigger then 1.5. They decreased it to 1 second.
I meant this for her first version, but 1s is too little.
When your fully condemned, Sadako is granted Killer instinct.
That does not mean that she finds you.
If your fully condemned, the passive build-up doesn't matter. Your going to be chased until you die.
Why shouldn‘t she, it‘s her ability? Survivor have to get rid of condemned in time otherwise this happens. That‘s her kit regardless of which version.
BVHR was changing the killer for player that were min-maxing her ability. There shouldn't be much of difference between V1 and V3 If you weren't using the mechanic in the first place.
There is a huge difference, because survivors weren‘t forced/meant to grab tapes back then and therefore the TVs weren‘t shut down all the time.
This is what i am talking about with whole Pig head-trap problem. Sadako tunneling condemn was as much of a problem in original version as it was in V2
Fair I guess. For me it wasn‘t really a problem in v1 since it wasn‘t easy to condemned that fast and survivors also weren‘t forced to always hold onto a tape.
The mobility was available VERY frequently. I did not feel like my mobility was impacted at all. The player the change affected were player that played
character badly.Simply no. Survivors did shut down all her TVs constantly, which means I don‘t have TVs to tp to and her 10s cooldown made it even worse by not allowing to switch targets very fast and to find people by going to multiple TVs. The only viable way to play her became condemned, which was not the case in v1 and I‘m not bad, because I don‘t like to play the way she got changed (to spam every 10s and hitting tapes out of their hands). I did play her the way she was meant to be played, but I didn‘t like this way more.
This version is closer V1 without any of the condemn strengths of V1.
She works almost the same as a nerfed version of v2. She still has global condemned in the form of all TVs condemned, shure this is a mix of both versions. Survivors still have to grab tapes all the time, which was the opposite in v1. And she has no downside for tapes/has TV auras/turning off TVs while carrying a tape, which are neither of both versions.
No there weren't. BVHR simply does not agree with her slugging design and does not like V2 design. that is all there is to it. I have accepted this and moved on.
Disagree, there are always ways, but they didn‘t even try and just removed the version I liked. It‘s just sad that I‘m no longer able to play her like I wanted, because some people played like that.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768335#Comment_3768335
It allowed you to be immediately chase someone and to immediately switch targets, which basically allowed you to chase multiple people at the same time.
I mean hillbilly could already do that with his chainsaw back before he rework and had the overheat mechanic. That did not make him a good killer. Mindlessly pressuring survivor is not time efficient for the killer if the killer does not get decisive downs. Survivor will hop on generators back fairely quickly. Organization is faster for SWF, slightly slower for soloq as dispersion effect is stronger in soloq.
The same way you wish there were attempts to save the second version I feel about the first version. They just scrapped it, but all they needed to do were the buffs they gave her until today without the actual reworked parts.
Well they did not really scrap the kit. rather they were solving problems in original kit design. Here list of 3 problems in my opinion that they were tackling that lead to version 2 Sadako.
- Tapes are not worth picking up, Picking up the tape created what I will call as "Pig Head-trap problem". The pig head-trap problem is that killer can proxy camp survivors in order to build-up a mori. This problem was compounded by problem #2.
- Condemn build-up was very slow in version 1. The local condemn televisions promoted staying in 1 area and the map that were bigger with larger gen spread made it less efficient to spread condemn. The absolute strongest form of condemn build-up survivors picking up a tape but due to how the penalty of picking up the tape created Pig head-trap problem. Survivor did not want to pick up a tape. In order for to enforce survivors to pick up a tape, the most optimal way to spread condemn was to have mutiple survivors bunch up with each other. This lead to a particular strategy being effective, one in which survivors dislike playing vs.
- That strategy is slugging. This strategy revolves around grouping survivor by downing teammates and since a teammate required one player to pick another survivor up, this meant that within 16 meter television, you build up 2x amount of condemn from a single teleport. Not only that, an add-on called Ring Drawing would spread condemn every time the survivor completes any healing action. Picking up survivors from dying state to injured counted as completing a healing action. So now we're at 2.5x condemn build-up that one single teleport would acquire in condemn. survivor hated this strategy very much so and this created an opportunity for BVHR to change these complaints about Sadako's Kit.
So their solution was Sadako version 2. Not to go through ALL changes, I will just highlight how they solved the above 3 problems with the following 3 solutions.
- Tapes no longer granted condemn build-up. Instead they protected the user from condemn build-up. This eliminated the "Pig head-trap problem". Survivor instead would take 2 condemn stacks upon being hit by Sadako curse M1 attack breaking the tape.
- Television condemn build-up was changed from 1 to 0.75. Television condemn build-up was made global addressing slow condemn build-up
- Ring drawing no longer spread condemn upon completing any healing action. instead condition was changed to only spread 1 condemn stack upon completing a healing action from injured to healthy.
These changes promoted more healthy gameplay interaction with the killer power. Sadako would no longer rely on cheese tactics with tapes however tapes were still part of his interest to keep them off survivors hand by winning chases. Condemn being global meant that Sadako was effective in all maps, not just midwich and Gideon. Ring drawing was made weaker to not reward heavy slug play-styles but still provide a beneficial effect to the killer that selected this add-on.
By no means was rework flawless. it still had some rough edges. some rough edges in my opinion were following:
- Sadako received 10 second cooldown on teleporting. This limited her teleport mobility slightly. It wasn't huge deal however some player took great issue in this change.
- Survivors were extremely upset in playing against Sadako. They found her kit frustrating and oppressive with the ability to instant kill a survivor with 0 hooks.
- In order to protected against condemn mechanic of Sadako, survivor had to keep hold of a tape. When Sadako would hit the tape off their hand, they would be tasked to find another television. Survivor had no information or aura where televisions were located. Further more, Sadako could turn off 5/8 televisions by constantly teleportation to them further limiting survivors options of picking up a tape.
Instead of BVHR polishing rough edges of 2.0 Sadako, we get this 3.0 version of Sadako. So obviously speaking, they nerf the heck out of condemn by making TV local from global due Survivor Complaint #2 and the tapes. They also granted survivor 16 meters of aura reading on all television, halve the insert time of the tapes and remove completely remove ring drawing add-on. So what we get is 1.0 Sadako with none of strength of original Sadako because they were allegedly too oppressive and unfun.
So to answer your question after this long explanation, No, the 1.0 had many issues and wasn't easily fixable because of the extend of what they were trying to change/solve. to this day, they still dislike/disapprove of slugging killer, just look twin rework so in that sense. nothing changed. Sadako in original iteration is part of these slugging killers, slugging mori killer to be exact and as such, she remains bad from condemn power perceptive.
Pressuring people via tp wasn‘t bad back then. One thing that was 100 times better, were that TV auras didn’t exist, which actually allowed you to make surprise attacks, but since they added it, survivors always know where you are. It also wasn‘t mindless pressuring: If you remembered which gens survivors were, you could instantly switch targets and get surprise hits, because the TVs were always near gens and if you needed to find someone, you could check all gens very fast. From my survivor perspective this part was far more engaging than it was in version 2 and is v3.
- Survivor were not supposed to grab tapes, which was the best about this version ever since. The drawbacks were not really a problem. You just needed to play a bit more careful and if there was too little counterplay (which I don’t think) they could have just decreased the tape insertion speed to 1,5s. Keeping track of the TVs to know where survivors would deposit their tape was a big part of her skill expressing, which wasn‘t too difficult to deal with as survivor, it only required a tinny bit of thinking. If she camped the TV you could simply stay condemned until you see a opportunity. If she chased you the condemned didn’t fill up via passive condemned and it‘s not like the ability automatically kills you like with pig.
- I never played her for the condemned back then, so I didn‘t really see that as an issue, but it took more skill and was a cooler mechanic that you could work for. It was not as free as in v2 and was not that much on the survivors to mess up (v3).
- I don‘t see slugging (except of bleeding out while everyone is downed and watching them) as an issue. There are so many perks, that work against it and even without them, it‘s incredibly risky. Slugging can either win you the match or cost you the match. In my opinion this is balanced. But changing ring drawing to no longer work on slugged survivors like they did, would have solved this too.
1.I found the old system fairer, because you couldn‘t just focus one person after another out by distroying their tape multiple times, which they were forced to grab immediately again. Survivors had more counterplay in v1 in my opinion, because they could still deposit their tape in chase while in v2 your only way to remove it, gets instantly distroyed through hits and punishes you even more.2. Now every Sadako spammed the teleport, which resulted in the most boring gameplay ever for both sides. I also started to slug every game since mobility wasn‘t viable/ available anymore in v2
- That pissed me off so much. I really hated this cooldown
- Agree, she was frustrating and boring for both sides. Also her only viable way became condemned, that wasn‘t the case before and therefore everyone spammed tp and focus one person out.
I would not say we got v1 back, because this version is closer to v2 Sadako than to v1 Sadako.
About Sadako slugging…. almost nobody played her like that. It was completely unnecessary to ruin a character, so that 2 YouTubers can‘t play like that anymore.
Disagree there were enough ways to fix her:- If they decreased her TV cooldowns, her whole power would have been drastically stronger and the issue where survivors were not able to grab tapes would have been gone. Or they could have removed the TV cooldown after tps. Both ways would have lead to better condemned spread, mobility and more counterplay.
- Slugging while I don‘t have a problem with it would have been fixed easily by just changing ring drawing to what they did after the first rework +
- Less slugging and stronger condemned could have been archived by their condemned look in mechanic, which encourages hooking
- Condemned could have been buffed by making the radius in which condemned spreads bigger (24-32m)
- Of course the other buffs she got would have helped a lot too. (The things I don‘t like except of the reworked parts are that you can turn off TVs while carrying a tape and the TV auras. Those are bad ways to fix her, because it makes her really frustrating )
Those changes are some ways to fix her problems and there are more even more. They did not need to rework anything.
Overall Sadako 1 with some buffs and todays QOL changes would be very strong, a lot better than the current version and far more fun to play against.
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At the very least make it 150% and revert undying.
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My que took around 11-13min as I tried it last time.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767217#Comment_3767217
the killer lacks ability apply pressure on the team. One of aspect that global condemn did is made all survivors do a secondary objective because of passive on condemn build-up. This gave Sadako map presence and map pressure. that is why slugging wasn't needed in V2.
In Version 1, Sadako lack ability to have map presence and map pressure because of local televisions. This was ok because the killer would slug players. Slugged survivors cannot do generators thus slowing the game down. This version lacks global condemn build-up in regular sized maps and Slug pressure. It has neither of map pressure tools for killer to succeed.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767231#Comment_3767231
I agree.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767354#Comment_3767354
there was no attempts to weaken the 1st reworked version. as result, saying something is difficult to balance with 0 attempt to balance it is invalid complaint.
I liked that you could pressure people back then (first version) with your tp, instead of condemned. It allowed you to be immediately chase someone and to immediately switch targets, which basically allowed you to chase multiple people at the same time. This was the form of map presence I liked.
there was no attempts to weaken the 1st reworked version. as result, saying something is difficult to balance with 0 attempt to balance it is invalid complaint.The same way you wish there were attempts to save the second version I feel about the first version. They just scrapped it, but all they needed to do were the buffs they gave her until today without the actual reworked parts.
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@Backmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768292#Comment_3768292
And why not Oni he is much more op and annoying than both of them combine? Also Huntress main problem not her buff but how her hatchet hitbox works
I don‘t mind oni personally and like playing against him. Wraith on the other hand is always tunneling and when he chases you there isn‘t much you can do. He either blocks the window with bambuzle or forces the pallet drop immediately, then breaks it insanely fast and is directly behind you again. Huntress camps most of the time and her buffs made it only worse. In chase dodging 7 hatchets is also not very interactive and fun (it‘s far too much). Shure her hitbox can be really frustrating, but I don‘t expect that this will ever change.
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The funny thing about it is I got 2 kills max with a friend and we all died as survivor. I can‘t decide to say which side it favors.
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I agree with wraith and huntress. Wraith should get light burn back and other killers too and huntress should get her buffs reverted.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767469#Comment_3767469
You couldn't tunnel people and smack tapes out of their hands multiple times. If you're tunnelling them, they didn't have time to pick up tapes.
Mindless TP spam also didn't work unless survivors ignored tapes. All you did by spamming TP, against teams that picked up tapes, was turn off your own mobility.
When it comes to problematic addons, I'm mostly thinking of the… Mother's Comb? I think that's what it's called. A green addon that gave you a loud noise notification when someone grabbed a tape, as well as turning TVs yellow when they're inactive. It still does this, and right now it's… fine, it's okay. When hitting someone with a tape applied Condemned, though, it was way too much free information that made Sadako kind of an autopilot killer.
I'm also reasonably sure her Iri Tape was problematic in that version too, but I may be misremembering there.
The thing about her counterplay before is that it had back-and-forth. They could protect themselves from your mobility + the Condemned it brought, but left themselves vulnerable if you ambushed them. They could be safer from being ambushed, but left themselves vulnerable to the mobility + Condemned.
I will say that changing her Condemned from global to just in proximity to an active TV was basically the single good thing about her latest rework, though, so it's the one major thing I'd keep if she ever did get reverted.
Doesn’t tunnel just mean you focus one person out?
This is also the case if you just wait until they grab a tape and if they don’t, keep spamming the tp.
I remember that every Onryo I played against tped non stop and I did the same as her. If they got tapes I just hit them and keep going.
I found this addon very boring and not really helpful back then, so I didn‘t use it.
Her iri tape only made that everyone had to deliver their tape to the furthest TV. Literally everyone played it like currently bloody fingernails is a 100% must pick for her.
The thing about her counterplay before is that it had back-and-forth. They could protect themselves from your mobility + the Condemned it brought, but left themselves vulnerable if you ambushed them. They could be safer from being ambushed, but left themselves vulnerable to the mobility + Condemned.
That is what I loved about this version. You were only meant to grab tapes if you either want to remove condemned or when you are scared from her TV and don‘t want her to crawl out of it. This is how it should be in my opinion. Survivors should not be encouraged to shut down her power all the time like in the last two versions.
I will say that changing her Condemned from global to just in proximity to an active TV was basically the single good thing about her latest rework, though, so it's the one major thing I'd keep if she ever did get reverted.
Why that? I thought you want her version completely how she was before back.
My hope is that they change her back to her first version, but make a addon for either global or all TV condemned. I suggested this before the last rework as well. -
@Skitten56 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767422#Comment_3767422
I also don't think slugging itself is wrong, however a lot of the playerbase does not support or like anyone who slugs. While many are okay with strategic slugging like to bait flashlight saves or when a hook gets sabo'ed, going into a match with slugging from the start as a strategy is heavily frowned upon. I doubt BHVR will return any mechanics which encourage such behavior.
I want my loud noice back that turns half the TVs back on (old iri tape). This addon was the coolest one in th whole game.
Old Iri-tape was so fun. That noise is just nostalgic for me and I'd love to have it back myself. I was so sad when they took it away from us and still miss it.
Current iri tape is terrible. It should be a grey meme addon without the longer cooldowns.
Going to have to strongly disagree with you there, though they should remove the cooldown debuff. I assure you this add-on is nowhere near trash level. I see so many other Onyro mains repeat this over and over, but how many of them have actually given the add-on and honest chance with a build that supports it?
The current Iri-tape is actually one of her stronger add-ons. It is not on the level of Iri-Remote Control, Bloody Fingernails, or Videotape Copy. A good condemn build will of course be stronger due to the nature of condemn and her power. However in spite of that, Iri-tape is still better than at least half of her other add-ons if you know how to take advantage of its strengths. I think many just say it is trash without giving it a chance due to the downside of having no condemn pressure and survivors being able to use the add-on against you if you fail to keep the pressure on them.
It is a challenging add-on to adapt to if you are not used to it, and is certainly not for newer Onryo players. It is also not an add-on for those who find non-condemn playstyles boring. However if you love her teleport mobility and macro play, while also enjoy playing hit and run, I think you will find it to be a very fun and strong add-on. Take advantage of that insanely boosted mobility and map pressure to destroy survivors. I 3-4k consistently with it and I believe any experienced Onryo main will also get the same results if they know how to play her as such.
I challenge you and anyone else who says iri-tape is trash now to actually use it in a few matches with Bloody Fingernails and a hit and run build. Learn how to use the add-on to its strengths while having fun with it, and if you learn to use it properly I believe you will find it to be much better than you expect.
Actually I did not try iri tape, because if someone runs around and just turns off TV after TV …, there is basically nothing I can do against it. So I refused to play it. I just don‘t want to have even longer cooldowns and of corse the los of condemned. Maybe if this addon hadn’t replaced my beloved iri tape, I would feel differently. I will try it the next days and tell you how it went.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767356#Comment_3767356
I firmly disagree, I don't think her first rework (specifically the last version of it, so after they made the change to holding tapes) was particularly unbalanced, nor do I think it required coordination or a high skill level to counter. It's not as though it's particularly difficult to grab tapes and hold onto them, people just didn't think to do it and acted like that meant Sadako was wildly too strong or something.
I would also argue that the current and original versions of her power, the ones where tapes are an afterthought and her power doesn't mesh with itself very well, are far more restricted than the version I'm talking about where you actually had tools to use and everything worked together cohesively.
I would also argue that the current and original versions of her power, the ones where tapes are an afterthought and her power doesn't mesh with itself very well, are far more restricted than the version I'm talking about where you actually had tools to use and everything worked together cohesively.
The current version got still almost the same design as her first rework and works almost the same.
The only real thing they really brought back was that they removed the tp cooldown.
Survivors still have to grab tapes to shut down all of her power, she still has a form of global condemned (all TV condemned) and Onryo still has to tp spam, but a bit less.
The design of the first version, was all about don‘t touch the TVs and tapes, which is why I will always prefer this version.
In my opinion Sadako 1 was fun and good, Sadako 2 was unfun and strong, Sadako 3 is only strong against people who don‘t know what to do and a bit more fun compared to Sadako 2.
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@jesterkind said:
What Sadako needs is to go back to her most recent version before this one.
That was a power that actually functioned, had clear and coherent counterplay, and had reasonable versatility to allow different builds and tactics from the killer. The elements actually meshed together, the survivors had an actual reason to mess with tapes, and she wasn't really all that strong— but to be fair she never has been and currently isn't, so that's not all that much of a concern for any version. It also didn't really have anything to abuse, save for a few problematic addons that would need to be reworked.
I don't usually go in for this kind of rhetoric, because it isn't usually reasonable, but in this case I really feel inclined to: There was no reason to actually rework her and it seems a lot like BHVR only thought to because of complaints, many of which were extremely questionable in their validity.
I disagree, butI respect your opinion. Shure she got a lot stronger, but she also lost her character and what made her fun.
The counterplay was always easy and clear, but not really fair in the first reworked version. It was incredibly easy to tunnel people out of the game by just hitting them the tape out of their hands multiple times.
„survivors had an actual reason to mess with tapes“ That’s the first thing I don‘t like about that version and the current version, which passive condemned did a lot better. It‘s incredibly frustrating that survivors constantly shut down my whole power. The other things were her tp cooldown and the mindless tp spam (+some other things)
What problematic addons are you talking about? Her addons became trash ever since they remove passive condemned, because most of them were based on that and the only controversial addon I know about: would be ring drawing.
There was no reason to actually rework her and it seems a lot like BHVR only thought to because of complaints, many of which were extremely questionable in their validity.
I completely agree she never needed the first rework, but the third one was necessary, while it is not perfect, it is better than the first rework.
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@Skitten56 said:
I'd love this myself. Having survivors actually avoid cursed tapes and be punished would be great. Not having teleport spam be the viable strategy and instead require strategic single target teleports would be great.
However old Ring Drawing can't return, at least not without the nerf to make it not work on slugged survivors. No one really wants the slug condemn strategy to come back. With the QoL buffs she has gotten across the board though she shouldn't really need to rely on such a playstyle anymore to be effective for the average player.
I doubt they will bring old Iri-tape back though, and I am okay with that if they keep the current Iri-tape. However if they did that, they would need to give her a few more condemn buffs so she could have some of the power comparable to old Iri-tape. I think instead of 16m, 18m or 20m condemn range basekit would be important.
Having said all of that, I personally am perfectly fine with the current Onryo we have. I don't trust BHVR to not mess her up again if they tried to rework her so I am content with what we have. Her current state plays fine and is fun while still being pretty strong when played well. We are fairly lucky when compared to the reworks other killers have received, and I'd rather not try our luck again.
However old Ring Drawing can't return, at least not without the nerf to make it not work on slugged survivors. No one really wants the slug condemn strategy to come back. With the QoL buffs she has gotten across the board though she shouldn't really need to rely on such a playstyle anymore to be effective for the average player.
They could give it a debuff like other addons have for slugs. For example survivors get unbreakable or recover faster from the dying state around a TV. I never faced a Sadako that slugged all the time back then. Most of them played her like me for mobility and condemned was secondary. Sadako is also not that strong, that she would need this nerfed again. When you look at huntress and twins that are different story strength wise. Overall I would be happy to get the version without slugs back too.
I doubt they will bring old Iri-tape back though, and I am okay with that if they keep the current Iri-tape. However if they did that, they would need to give her a few more condemn buffs so she could have some of the power comparable to old Iri-tape. I think instead of 16m, 18m or 20m condemn range basekit would be important.
Current iri tape is terrible. It should be a grey meme addon without the longer cooldowns. I want my loud noice back that turns half the TVs back on (old iri tape). This addon was the coolest one in th whole game.
I think it would be good to increase the range of condemned to 24m, 28m or 32m basekit too
I don‘t understand what is wrong with slugging. It is perfectly fine as strategy and slowdown. The only thing that is not fine for me is bleeding someone out while having everyone slugged and standing in front of them. -
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766302#Comment_3766302
they over-kill made for this too. the perk needed more drawbacks like dh but they remove accessible speed and as such, the perk vanished. in general, bvhr is not really known for reviving killer perks but they are known for reviving survivor perks so maybe MFT gets Decisive strike, Iron will etc. treatment where they change it again to be usable.
I really hope they revert more killer and survivor perks.
MFT, undying, ruin, COB, OC, DH, COH,….
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@Ohyakno said:
Climb on wall. Get stuck inside wall for entire game.
If behavior would do it right, then this won’t happen
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@Laluzi said:
I think they said they considered this when creating Alien, but their concern was that the power would be highly inconsistent across maps - it'd do next to nothing in Rotten Fields while having tons of utility on indoor maps, and so on.
They could make it blight like, but different. You can jump from wall to wall or just clim or crawl on the wall and from there you can also attack like victor with a jump.
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@Barin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766304#Comment_3766304
I don't know either but when I edited my post, the post was reviewed
Ah maybe, because of this. This happens when you edit stuff too often and when you have something like 200 posts this function disables. It is something against spam or so, but normally all comments appear again.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
I find him using stealth and getting revealed near a hooked or downed survivor to be fair. Thats just camping. What i dont find fair is if theres a really good runner just following you everywhere you go to ensure you cant stealth at all.
Agree with you.
I wish he wouldn‘t loose the stalk on people and his ability on hitting people. An addon for making all forms of revealing him slower would be cool too (instead of only when someone is hooked/downed)
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Why did my comment get removed/deleted?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766203#Comment_3766203
i thought the nerf they were going give it is that perk deactivates upon first person that screams. so for example if you open a locker and 2 people around, both survivor scream. if you open a locker and nobody screams, the first person to enter your TR screams.
Unfortunately they didn't nerf it in respectable way. they just murdered the perk downright. Judging from Pig rework and Onryo changes, I'd say the ultimate weapon was exclusively Pig targeted nerf.
Someone probably faced Michael Myer's tombstone →Head pop pig → Onryo Mori in one day and decided that there is too many mori's in the game so we should delete 2 of them.
Your idea would also been good, but no like you said behavior always has to murder perks. They did the same with MFT, where they could have tried 2% speed when not exhausted.
Maybe the UW nerf came for pig. I suggested in the past, that when people get interrupted at boxes the search progress regresses over time, but no they butchered both instead of an easy fix.
I‘m scared what they will do to Myers. They will probably do a really bad rework, which nobody likes and call it a day or it will be busted. I really want that they revert Sadako and her addons back to her first version, but keep the buffs and pig should get her auras back.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766178#Comment_3766178
yeah but you don't hit them. your too slow and too far away. another slugging killer nerf.
It‘s not even the speed for me, but my power always runs out right before the pallet hits me.
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@Skitten56 said:
Most concerning thing for me is that in their Reddit AMA they seemed to say that they were happy with the Haddonfield rework, when it is one of the worst and least balanced maps now in recent memory.
I also wish when they did map reworks they would keep the old variant in rotation if it wasn't horribly broken at least. It would have at least helped balance things out in the Haddonfield situation where if someone brought an offering it would either be survivor sided or killer sided, instead of just one.
I hope they don't ruin what makes the Swamp maps fun and unique in their reworks.
I still hope they make a classic mode, but just keeping maps if they are not too broken would probably be better.
I hope they don't ruin what makes the Swamp maps fun and unique in their reworks.
I can already tell what they will do, they will remove most of the vegetation, move the things from the corners in the middle, make all loops terrible or remove most of them and shrink it to a very small size.
I don‘t understand how they can call haddonfield fine.
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@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766225#Comment_3766225
Well said. Do they even consider listening to survivor feedback at this point because I doubt they do, they stripped any form of safety from the map, added tons of junk, more deadzones, unsafe tiles, nerfed any places to hide in, WHILE adding one god pallet which is the only good thing to use on the map, that's it.
The game has been going on for 8 years and the developers seem to can't balance maps right which is really concerning if they are going to continue changing maps. I really hate the direction they're going in as well.
They listen to survivors if they complain enough, but not in regards of maps. They often nerf perks then, but that is the case for sides. I really don‘t like that they don‘t nerf them reasonable, instead they always gutt them. Sometimes they also nerf killers or make extremely easy counterplay for survivors. They ruined blight in my opinion and I still don‘t like what they did to Sadako (her first version was decent, fun and good).
The devs way of balancing things is weird in my opinion.
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I‘ve been saying this for a long time. You can expect all 5 Badhams to join the list of bad reworks. The problem is that they listen to map feedback, but from killers, which just makes the newer/reworked maps miserable for survivors.
What I really dislike is that most of the newer tiles aren‘t even playable, when there are even any windows or pallets. Then they also add too many shortcuts, make them too small and remove all bushes/ vegetation you could hide in.
I really dislike the direction they are going for the last year.
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The nerf went in the wrong direction like always nerfs aren‘t reasonable. They only needed to increase the cooldown a bit or/and make it‘s duration shorter/longer.
The only killer that can use it now is pig. Wow.
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@Laluzi said:
On the one hand, Badham has been one of the most obscenely survivor-sided maps in DBD for as long as I've played, it's the worst one remaining since Haddonfield's first rework, and it's about time it got balanced.
On the other hand, BHVR's reworks this past year have been atrocious and their new philosophy seems to be spamming weak or downright unusable tiles and putting convenient holes next to every vault, so I'm afraid it'll get switched from a survivor-sided mess to a killer-sided mess.
I have zero faith in the map balancing department right now and I don't want them to do any more damage than they already have.
On the other hand, BHVR's reworks this past year have been
atrociousand their new philosophy seems to be spamming weak or downright unusable tiles and putting convenient holes next to every vault, so I'm afraid it'll get switched from a survivor-sided mess to a killer-sided mess.I have zero faith in the map balancing department right now and I don't want them to do any more damage than they already have.
That is exactly what I think and I really don‘t trust in behaviors balancing skills.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3765434#Comment_3765434
imagine thinking that garden of joy is killer sided.
It has one of the most broken god loops in the entire game that a killer can literally do 0 things about. And when they "nerfed it" by reworking the map, they somehow made it stronger.
You ignored everything I wrote and said.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
in a way he got weaker because he no longer has 5% haste and overclock scaling.
his basekit got stronger overall, but he became less consistent in terms of getting hits, as overclock runs out fast & you have to make survivor get out of safe position to hit them with overclock.
it's not a big deal, but it's something you need to consider now, you cannot just m2 m1 people like you used before, unless they're really not very smart.
I never played the soma family photo, but man does his ability run out fast. I wish they didn‘t get rid of his overcloak scaling.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3765434#Comment_3765434
No way you just called Garden of Joy killer sided, or? How is that even possible?
Haddonfield is surely killer sided, but most other maps you mentioned are fine. Rancid Abbatoir is the only coldwin farm map that is killer sided, and the Borgo maps have enough usable tiles and loops for survivors, and I also don't see how they are too small.And then there is Garden of Joy, which is too big and has an extremely safe main building. That map is survivor sided.
Garden of joy is terrible outside of these 3 areas (shack, car park, main). If you don‘t get to those, you are screwed and the killer can just ignore them. The map is not automatically good for survivors only because of main. The strong main doesn‘t make any difference when you can‘t reach it.
I don‘t like the generell changes to coldwind (mainly corn and the light), but the one with shack and rancid are besides that also terrible.
Shattered square is just a square, which makes it very easy to patrol. If it would be a rectangles or a circle, it would be better, but I don‘t know whether that would help much with the size. The loops on both Borgo realms are just terrible and not enough. Vecnas new map is a huge mess, but looks good. The maze tiles on both Borgo realms are terrible (often without or with a bad window and weird pallet placement).
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@HolyDarky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3765422#Comment_3765422
Iron Will is not healthy for the game but I guess you miss the experience to understand it - even though you explain it -, especially when I see how you think back to your discussion about maps in general.
What even is this?! Someone got a different opinion: Ahh you lack experience. Wowwwwww
In general I want a game to be fair, but nothing in this game is fair. This game is incredibly killer sided, which makes it very boring for me as killer player. I don‘t like to have it that easy in games, where I win the majority of my games by default. Shure the devs want it to be like that, but I don‘t like that. Now you could say play survivor, but it is literally only frustrating to play survivor. You get constantly bad maps and bad teammates, that show you constantly how bad the game is for survivors
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3765059#Comment_3765059
100% agree. It's a nightmare for killers, as anyone who actually plays killer can attest to
I main killer and got rarely any problems on the map, but there is not really a map I got problems with as killer.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3765061#Comment_3765061
What killer favoring maps?
Haddonfield: I don‘t need to explain why
Cinema map: Only trash pallets and trash loops and terrible gen placement
Garden of Joy: Almost nothing good outside of car park, shack and main.
Temple of purgation: Nothing outside of main and main isn‘t even good.
Both Borgo realms got Terible maze tiles, are far too small and have terrible/almost no loops
Coldwind: The one with shack and rancid abattoir lack in almost everything. Overall old coldwinds were far better.
There are other maps that I got problems with, but that are the worst ones.
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@HolyDarky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3765323#Comment_3765323
The newer maps are much better - at least only need tiny adjustments. They also announced that they will rework Haddonfield and even Midwich because they see the issues with these maps. We also have so many other maps, so just to focus on one or two where the developers made a mistake (that they agree on) is a little bit harsh. It's also not only about the killer but also the interaction with your SoloQ teammates.
I've never said that I hate this Perk. All I suggest is that Perks that enable a selfish playstyle is not healthy for SoloQ. So don't distort the realities here.
I did not say that you said you hate IW, but it feels like it.
Almost all maps got changed to the worse or released bad for 1 and a half year:
Cinema map: Only trash pallets and trash loops and terrible gen placement
Garden of Joy: Almost nothing good outside of car park, shack and main
Temple of purgation: Nothing outside of main and main isn‘t even good.
Both Borgo realms got Terible maze tiles, are far too small and have terrible/almost no loops
Coldwind: The one with shack and rancid abattoir lack in almost everything. I don‘t like how they changed all aspects of coldwind, the lights and more closer corn was better, there weren‘t so many useless tent loops and less weird structures. Overall the old cooldowns maps were far better.
There are other maps that also lack in a lot of things, but that are the worst ones in my opinion.
I don‘t even have issues with Midwich and Hawkins, that most people call killer sided. Shure they are, but I find them fair. Midwich got a lot of good loops in my opinion.
IW is a very good perk for the games Health in my opinion. It helps against tunneling in some way by making healing easier/less noticeable and sometimes the killer overlooks you, because of this. It is also one of the few perks that can actually help you losing the killer. It helps with flashlight saves. If my teammates would run, it they might at the very least die less often. That means I might be able to do more than healing the whole match and running from hook to hook. I also like looping with it more, because it doesn‘t give the killer constant wall hacks by letting him hear me through walls, which gives me an actual chance for mindgames.
Did the devs actually say that current haddonfield will get changed soon, because I thought they were very happy with it?
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All reworked or new maps, that came out for one and a half year. I like Nostromo and toba a bit, but one got bad and the other not enough loops.
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Why should I want to „interact“ with the killer when all newer/reworked maps either have 0 loops or only got trash/worthless loops. At this point there is nothing else left.
I also don‘t understand your hatred for this perk. It is completely fine.
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@legiondoctor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3765053#Comment_3765053
badham isnt fine its actually the most unfun/ survivor sided map in the game
Shure it is compared to all the other bad/killer favoring maps (haddonfield…) better for survivors, but am I rich when I have 10$ and someone else got 1$. Nope. Most maps currently are so easy for killer. Badham is a fair map and is not difficult as killer. I rarely struggle there.
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I hope they don‘t. Every reworked map is incredible unfun to play on. All they do is shrinking them, removing most pallets/windows/bushes and make that the killler can take 20 shortcuts. They also look bad afterwards.
Badham is fine. They should revert a lot of their map reworks. At this point I only believe, that they only care about killers by making them easy mode for them, when it comes to maps.
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Chucky lost everything, that made him fun (scamper). Slice and ice is such a boring ability.
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Do you think this is a test for a new mechanic?
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764665#Comment_3764665
The reassurance version on the ptb paused the hook progress for 30s and was on a 40s cooldown. There was no limit of 1 per hook stage.
So, in theory, if 2 survivors ran around the hook using reassurance on cooldown, and the killer just let them, they could pause the hook state indefinitely. It could've been a hostage situation for the survivor on hook, and was easily avoided by letting the survivor on hook cancel the effect.
But people cried and got it changed into what it is now: one use per hook stage. It's just a striking coincidence that the change also made it so useless against camping that they had to put in an anti face camp feature later on as well.
But don't worry, people were just really, really worried about 3 players, including the killer, holding someone hostage. It had nothing to do with making a camping solution ineffective before it went live, oh no. Never that.
Even though the hostage issue was, again, completely resolved by letting the hooked survivor cancel the effect.
They should have kept it as it was. It would just be funny and effective, but no. The killer could have just chased someone else and if not, the guy on the hook would have to wait a bit. What would be the problem?!
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Yeah I had this too. It‘s extremely frustrating. Sadly it only happened when I played killer. It never happened as survivor for me :(.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764661#Comment_3764661
If we are talking about the anti-camping, two reassurance can protect a survivor for two minutes, I believe those time is enough to basically guarantee a gate open even before the survivor dies
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764663#Comment_3764663
Probably, I'm not sure which side is faster when it comes to hook timer and wiggle meter
You don‘t have to keep them on your shoulder. Just carry them to the hook, drop them and keep face camping behind the slugged person. Depending on how close the slugged person is you can just stay behind them or you can go before them and the anti camp fills up very slowly. If the slug crawls away I can just bring him back to hook.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764607#Comment_3764607
Overall this feature did more harm than good and made this game more boring in my eyes.
I've been saying since the weaker ptb nerfed reassurance into uselessness, that reassurance should be put back to it's ptb form.
The only reason it was changed was 'to prevent hostage situations' which required at least two survivors and the killer to work together to keep someone on hook.
That problem is 100% fixed by "press E to cancel reassurance". Revert it with that change and let people have a useful anti camp tool.
Cause let's be honest, reassurance being viable to combat camping is the real reason people wanted it nerfed in the first place.
What exactly did they change in the Wesker PTB?
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764607#Comment_3764607
That's more like your teammates abusing mechanics to make killers facecamp hooked person, as they can just slug away from the hook
I‘m the killer in that situation and it works very well to just carry someone to a hooked person.