Krazzik
Krazzik
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The change to Spine Chill didn't really do much to help stealth killers, it's still really strong against them.
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Survivors can be stealthy but still productive. So long as they're still doing gens, still getting unhooks and stuff I'm fine with it. Infact, if they're on death hook they definitely should be being stealthy at all costs.
If they're letting go of gens the moment spine chill flashes on and are always crouching on a corner whenever you see their aura then yeah obviously they're being a bad teammate.
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The 'Haddie hive mind' on twitter have turned some people against her but other than that it's simply because a lot of people didn't like her character model and made a bigger deal about it than neccessary.
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You can still proxy camp, which is usually more efficient anyway. You can also still facecamp at endgame and you can still defend the hook when there's other survivors going for the save.
I really don't see what the issue is.
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They really need to put a hook down there if basement is in shack. Easy fix.
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To be fair the ONLY legendary survivor skins I see even slightly often is Sheva and rarely Claire. Jonathon, Chris, Carlos, James, Lisa and Cybil are all incredibly rare.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431520#Comment_3431520
OTR by definition is to give you a long timer of deep wound. The basekit BT also gives you endurance and 110% movement speed, and you get a speed boost when getting hit. If you can't get to another loop with 10 seconds of moving at 150% movement speed for 3 seconds and then 110 for 7 more, you are doing something wrong. During that time you should be able to move a full 50 meters of distance. Based on that you should be able to move to any place you want on the map if you are in the middle of it before the killer can reach you.
Correct but if you aren't a good looper it doesn't really matter. Most survivors aren't good loopers and so hate getting tunneled and want something to stop it completely.
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I mean facecamping was never a good way of getting pressure unless they were close to next stage. Proxy camping was always far better and wont be affected.
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Borgo is definitely up there but Garden of Joy is almost certainly the most hated map for killer. Borgo, Eyerie and Badham probably under that.
That said to make it better they'd need to shrink it slightly and add more walls so you can't see the killer coming a mile away.
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If the killer is tunneling and proxy camping then OTR and DH don't actually help you. The killer will hit you right after the unhook so you're in deep wound and now those perks aren't gonna do anything.
DS is certainly better but you HAVE to go down like AT a safe loop because otherwise the killer will just down you again right after.
Also I do still see people using exhaustion perks about as often as before, it's just now there's more Lithe and SB and much less DH.
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They either don't like the killer they're going against, don't like the survivors they've been paired with or realised they can't get their archive done.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430994#Comment_3430994
Most simple way to fix it is 4 survivors alive have 75% Gen strength, while 3 have 150%, 2 have 300%. Everyone would find its the best to keep 4 of them alive until 8 hooks, because Gen goes slower if 4 survivors alive.
Then unhooked survivors would bodyblock and teabag the killer to go after them.
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I saw a lot of DBD streamers move over to Decieve Inc for a while, and while some still play it, after the new-game-novelty wore off most are back to mainly playing DBD again.
It's a cool game and I myself played it a bit during the free weekend but it's not gonna kill DBD and from what I've seen even with all the streamers playing it it's still struggling to get that many players.
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@MrPsych said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430500#Comment_3430500
This is the least practical and most useless guard use and can very easily be defeated. Get noticed by the guard and then go for the rescue. If you unhook a survivor while being hunted, the hunt stops.
At most this lets the killer know 1-2 seconds ahead of time an unhooking will take place. But the guards themselves in this situation are completely harmless.
So many survivors don't know that unhooking cancels a hunt it's crazy. Dumping a guard at a hook and running off is a terrible use of them.
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@IWasLeft2Die said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430361#Comment_3430361
He did say he had an archive to chase someone for so long and needed a handful of seconds. Didn't need to kill me
Then why make this thread at all? He literally gave you a legitimate reason for it. Yes he -could- have let you go free after but he doesn't need to.
More us vs them.
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DCing because you're 'not having fun' is looked down on because if everyone did that then DBD would be completely ruined because people would be DCing from most games.
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Coulda been a high-MMR survivor left the lobby and the matchmaker grabbed a baby survivor becase backfilling doesnt take into account anything. Or inversely the baby killer dodged the lobby and so it grabbed a really good Blight.
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If they say "nice tunnelling/camping" and I did actually tunnel or camp I just say "ye".
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Most people I've seen seem to agree that healthy hook grabs shouldn't be a thing, simply because they promote a weird, unintuitive and frankly boring playstyle of playing the 'grab game'. Even putting latency-issues aside it's just plain bad game design.
I don't remember BHVR commenting on hook-grabs at all.
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I'm guessing they're saving any news for the anniversary.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428231#Comment_3428231
I'm j saying if a killer like wraith became the or one of the best killers in the game that'd be completely awful
I've never once said Wraith should be the strongest killer in the game or even high up there. Even with the removal of lightburn he's STILL not that good, calm down.
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I think the big reason that many killer players get defensive is because a lot of survivors outright demonise killers who tunnel. They don't just complain about tunneling as a method, they outright hurl abuse at the killers who do it. The whole "baby killer needs to tunnel to win" mentality is pretty prevalent and so it's no wonder when someone complains about tunneling, killers are gonna defend themselves.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428171#Comment_3428171
uh yeah it kinda does, good reason for him being one of the weaker killers
I'm sorry but I disagree.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Nearly everything about this is problematic.
- This implementation is 'win more' and nothing else. If the killer can get 2 hooks in before 2-3 gens are done the game is over, killer wins. If 2-3 gens are done before first hook, the debuff does nothing to help that.
- If anything you'd want it backwards, a reduction to gen efficiency that goes away with more hooks. Killers want the start of the game to slow down, survivors need time later in the game. Although, since it's always part of the discussion, ask yourself why survivors are being punished for tunneling with this solution? Because you can still tunnel the first survivor out and keep the 20% gen speed debuff forever.
- 20% gen speed is ludicrous, 40% is obscene. That makes base gen speeds 112.5s and 150s respectively, and even the 20% number is exactly why they nerfed Thana. At 40%, it's 30s faster to hang on hook for both stages (120s) than it is to finish one gen. Which leads to the next issue:
- This gigabuffs camping. Stand in front of your first hook and one of two things happens: 1) survivors leave them to die, but gens take 112.5s permanently. A single gen takes as long as the survivor dying on their first hook. Or 2) a survivor comes to trade at the hook, which now makes gens take 150s instead. It's a literal win/win for face camping, that it doesn't need.
- If you really want to give a reason not to tunnel, you'd have to make it less efficient than removing 25% of the survivor team. If you're taking the approach of buffs and debuffs, you'd have to buff survivors by more than 33% gen repair speed when one person dies. That works out to 3 survivors doing the work of 4 survivors, and the killer gains nothing for tunneling. I don't think I have to elaborate why that's also a terrible idea.
I think you misunderstand my suggestion. If a survivor gets hooked, they have one hookstate, only THAT single survivor will have a slower gen speed. It isn't some global debuff, it's ONLY the survivor that has hookstates, gets that debuff.
If the killer tunnels and camp then the three other survivors who have zero hook states will be doing gens at regular speed.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427410#Comment_3427410
hes also the easiest killer tho, doesnt rly need buffs either 🤷
It doesn't really matter how hard or easy a killer is, Wraith is on the lower end of killers and having a big weakness to flashlights and flashbangs in the game wasn't really fair. Even without it he's not suddenly an amazing killer.
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It's weird because even if you remapped you key binding it would just show the new binding so if you are hammering space, and your space bar is functional there's no reason it shouldn't work.
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If you had Deliverance you could have gotten the killer's attention before the game was over. Then you'd have been able to use it.
If you're the only one left in the match you don't really need to use it because either:
1) You're near an open gate and it's an easy, guaranteed escape due to basekit BT and Haste
2) You're not and you're just wasting the killer's time by stretching out a losing game.
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Either they cherry pick questions they -can- answer and people get annoyed because they're not the questions they wanted, or they pick the questions people really WANT answered and they give non-answers because they don't know, have no plans to add something, or can't promise something that may not end up happening for certain. Honestly a lot of developer Q&As go the same way and it's pretty rare to get much actual juicy info regardless of who the developer is.
Also as abrasive an answer as the "was it really a skilled play?" was, it -did- actually make sense. If you're looking at individual games then yeah, sure, kills vs escapes seems like a terrible idea because it doesn't really measure how useful you were in a match. However, if you play 100 games, a more skilled survivor is going to overall escape more than a lesser-skilled survivor. This of course doesn't work as well if you play super-altrustically and ALWAYS go for dangerous saves and are quick to sacrifice yourself for the team, but for how most survivors play the game, it's really the best way of measuring skill in an asymetrical game like DBD.
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@Heytherebigguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427558#Comment_3427558
I bear that in mind as i play killer as well.
If survivors do the things you've mentioned, I punish them as well cause they think they can get away with everything, which they can't. I told it to another user here on this post as well. I'm talking about the bread n butter wesker situation haha, you know what I mean :P
Yes there are certainly killers that hard-tunnel the first person they see and it does feel pretty ######### for that person if they're not a great looper. Unfortunatly there isn't really anything BHVR can do to stop it without completely reworking how hooks and hookstates work. They already added a basekit 10 seconds of Endurance and 10% Haste to almost always guarentee the unhooked person can reach a window/pallet/loop so they have something to work with. If the person is a good looper this is incredibly powerful, but if the person isn't a good looper then yes it's not gonna help much and they'll just go down pretty fast and get hooked again.
Incentives could help a bit, but they wouldn't stop someone being able to tunnel just as effectively if they ever felt like it, so it doesn't solve the issue really. If someone wants to win and doesn't care about extra BP or whatever then they'll tunnel.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427011#Comment_3427011
It doesn’t need to be altered in anyway that weakens it, because it was recently nerfed with the wiggle escape mechanic change. I haven’t seen someone escape with Boil Over since before then. I’ve tested it myself and it seems that unless you’re incredibly lucky with hook spawns you won’t escape with it alone. As killer I’ve noticed it doesn’t really affect sway like it once did. But I get that the impetus for many killer mains is to ensure survivors have 0 utility with their perks.
I mean yeah if you just throw Boil Over into any old build and play normally then it's useless. Hooks are scattered around close enough to each other that Boil Over normally doesn't do anything.
The issue is when they bring a combination of perks and offerings to force areas of the map where they are literally unhookable. They don't need teammates to bodyblock or sabo or run Breakout, they literally are unhookable all on their own, and that's a problem.
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Bear in mind a lot of the time the killer 'tunnels' is completely the survivor's fault:
The survivor got unhooked and then tries to bodyblock for someone, it's completely their fault if the killer goes after them.
The survivor gets unhooked and runs to the nearest gen or the gen they were working on before they got found last time and then are shocked when the killer quickly finds them and downs them.
The survivor gets unhooked and then runs right through the middle of the map, gets found and then downed.
I don't deny that there are obviously killers who purposefully go out of their way to tunnel a survivor but most of the time I see 'tunnelling' happening in games it's because the survivor didn't play defensively or stealthily in any way after they got unhooked. If you don't wanna get the killer after you again you need to actually -try- and not get found.
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It wasn't really fair for an already-weak killer like Wraith to ALSO have a weakness to flashlights.
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@Skill_issue said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426319#Comment_3426319
just remove the hit box after the first hit on the hook
Okay but why? Like it literally doesn't do anything for the game. It would just be a clunky, weird, unintuitive mechanic that doesn't really achieve anything. If the killer hits you on the hook, why does that annoy the survivor, it just doesn't make sense to me.
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People tend to mainly run winter/festive skins in winter.
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Wraith is actually really strong against low MMR survivors, he requires specific knowledge to counter rather than just playing against him like every other killer.
That said, he falls off -very- quickly against better survivors because he's easy to punish once you know how.
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@Jejune said:
You would have to fix camping first... Imagine basement hag, but her traps immobilize you.
I mean a Trapper can already hook you in basement and have three traps on hand -and- have shack/main building trapped up as it is.
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Boil Over needs an entire rework. Wiggling out without help from your teammates should not be a thing, the game isn't balanced around it.
As said earlier in the thread, you pretty much HAVE to play in a scummy way to get value out of it by running to an unhookable spot and that's clearly not something that should even be a thing.
I've seen squads bring Badham offering and Basement-in-Killer-Shack offering and just running to main building's basement whenever the killer was nearby. Coupled with No Mither there's no way of dealing with them except standing over them and downing them every single time they pick themselves up. Oh, and they had Soul Guard so they had endurance each time too.
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@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426842#Comment_3426842
This is a widespread problem. If you are "baffled" by this then you are just not playing survivor. I was watching Skermz just yesterday (3000 viewers) and he DC'd to not get slugged.
https://clips.twitch.tv/SincereDiligentCiderPoooound-1aHnmOAW85fV6mnf
Unbreakable does not fix anything in this situation. You burn it, what now? The game is still lost, you'll get downed, and slugged again. The only thing you have achieved by getting up is to pause the timer which makes you stay even longer in the match.
Almost every game nowadays one survivor gets slugged for several minutes. Either because the killer wants 4k or because they are angry with life. This is not fun and should be addressed. If the game is over then everyone should be able to quickly leave regardless of someone's personal issues.
There were two survivors still up, I don't really understand why he DCed.
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It's weird they haven't done this because even if he DID start with all his traps he'd still be one of the weaker killers.
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Mainly because he's the second-weakest killer in the game so it's not a huge deal that he has one OP-busted addon. If they ever get around to buffing him they can ditch TP.
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Not evil but they are problematic. If a gen pops while a trapped survivor is on hook and they end up needing to check 4 boxes it can quite easily put the survivor in a literal unwinnable situation.
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A filter for certain words is fine but they need to make it waaaay less strict than it currently is.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426265#Comment_3426265
Yes, regularly tunneling the first person you see out is reflective of a skill issue. Or at least low confidence in being able to win any other way.
But for people who are being driven crazy by the matchmaking, you might as well just pack it up, because that's not gonna change.
I wouldn't say using the most efficient method of winning is a skill issue.
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@saym said:
Agree with you.I don't understand BHVR not working and showing MMR.
Most video games don't show MMR. Most do show some sort of rank that is loosely tied to a player's MMR I guess, but I can't think of many that actually show you your MMR rating.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426647#Comment_3426647
The problem is that the Finisher Mori is also a way for a quick victory, which incentives killers to play for a slug victory. You potentially end up with more slugging overall, not less. Killers load in with Knock Out and play for a Finisher Mori from the start. Sure, the game ends when all 4 are down, but there's a whole lot of whack a mole going on before that.
This is exactly why they were testing it alongside basekit unbreakable, because it they didn't it would just mean most killers slug. Unfortunatly basekit Unbreakable was busted.
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They can be fun if survivors play along. I've tried to play as a gardening Nurse in Haddonfield, blinking around and fixing up the hedges. Unfortunatly most of the time the survivors just do gens and leave and then hurl abuse at you in endgame chat.
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Sex in dbd?
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I mean it wouldn't make much sense for the killer -not- to be able to hit someone on the hook. Like what would they just get some shield around them? Yeah it doesn't really add anything but it would just be weird if it was specifically removed.
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@Dogma_loki said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3425122#Comment_3425122
Then you're fine with killers being removed from the match for 4 minutes by the survivors whenever they decide, I assume?
No, because killers are the 1 in a 1v4.
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@sulaiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3425416#Comment_3425416
While tunneling and camping have been around, they really rose after the patch. And thats what was new, that next to every killer was doing it.
People say this literally all the time. Whenever a new patch is out, whenever a new meta forms, whenever a new event is released, tunnelling and camping are more prevalent than ever.