KingFrost
KingFrost
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- KingFrost
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I know this is a joke, but man that sounds way more useful than NoED. Stack with STBFL and you've got a 70% quicker cooldown in endgame?
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Idea:
Only hide hex totems better. Dull totems can be found anywhere, including in the middle of the open or next to a generator. No change to NoED.
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Survivors:
-Don't teabag a killer unless they've camped or tunneled needlessly.
-Don't bring Keys.
-If you're in an SWF, limit your team to two items. You already have a huge advantage. No need to make that advantage greater.
-If you bring Bloody Party Streamers, make sure the killer gets some blood points too. Don't go around denying them hooks unless they're a camper.
-Don't save someone while in the killer's terror radius unless you have Borrowed Time
-Don't use the hook tech. It's an exploit.
-If you're in a SWF, none of you should offer a map offering unless it's a killer favored map. Again, you already have a huge advantage. Facing a full SWF on Hadonfield with everyone having balanced landing is not going to be fun for most people.
Killers
-Don't camp.
-Don't tunnel. Go for the person unhooking over the person who was unhooked. If you want to punish them for an unsafe hook, down the saved player, but leave them on the floor to be picked up by their team.
-Don't hit people on the hook, and don't nod your head at them on the hook unless they teabagged you. Nodding at them anywhere else is fine. (And let's face it, its adorable when survivors and killers nod at each other)
-Don't punish survivors because your LAST match wasn't any fun. The survivors you'll be facing aren't responsible for the actions of the people who came before them.
-Don't Mori people straight off their first hook.
-Only bring a Mori if everyone's got an item
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They want people to play both roles. Problem is, this only encourages survivors to play killer -- which is good, but what encourages killers to play survivor?
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I've literally had games where I CRAWL TOWARD THE KILLER hoping they'll hook me, and they BACK AWAY. It's pretty annoying.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1229758#Comment_1229758
Exactly this. Otz is a good player but he literally just went in circles around the hook.
We’ve seen him play hard and only just beat them on the last gen after a lightning fast genrush and then we see him circling the hook and winning more comfortably. There is something wrong with that. The way that is more fair, fun and requires more skill should offer the greatest benefit.
I think that's something a lot of killer mains don't take into consideration. They're okay with it because they hate the survivor base SO MUCH that they want them to suffer, and they don't consider how it's unfair to other killers who actually put in effort to get fewer kills, despite a lower skill discrepency between survivors and killers. The animosity between the two sides is very unhealthy for the game.
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Wonder how many killers who say "Mori's are fine!" are perfectly okay with Keys.
I think they need to either have a gen completion requirement, or require all survivors hooked once before you can Mori.
"But what if the last survivor is really hard to catch?"
Git Gud?
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Teabagging is pretty annoying, especially when you go out of your way to play nice. I do tend to remember those survivors, and don't play so nice with them the next time. I don't think they should do anything about it. It's not unfair in any way. But players should try to play nice with other players who also play nice. If a killer camps and tunnels, then by all means teabag them. You earned it.
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Pretty sure they're working on that for the pip system already.
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Wonder how a topic that said "Hey Survivors, you want to annoy killers? ANd make them have boring games? I have the build for you!" would go.
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@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1233032#Comment_1233032
...then stay out of threads like this? LUL Again, not greedy. ;)
Pretty sure he's just a troll.
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Claudette. They're impossible to see most of the time.
Of the killers, Wraith. "Oh look at me, I'm clever! I can go invisible and camp and literally do nothing else."
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Just disconnect when that happens. Killer gets no points from you, and you go get something to eat or take a bathroom break. Eat the 5 minute penalty.
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Her add-ons need some serious reworking. A lot of them benefit the survivor, and others do very little. Her dash attack could be improved. Crouch speed should be higher. And she should get more points for RBT related things. The RNG screws you over way too often, too. Somehow survivors often get their traps off at the first box pretty often. That doesn't work well for a slowdown mechanic. She's definitely my favorite to play, though.
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I've quit listening to anyone who mains one side or another, and everyone else should too. If you don't play both sides, you really shouldn't talk about balance.
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Oof. I remember going against a ghostface who was camping me. This Nea came for what I thought was the rescue. Instead, she pulled me off, blocked me from leaving, he downed me and put me back on the hook. Then Nea pulled me off, and he did it again. This repeated once more. I spectated afterward, and saw her lead him to the other survivors. Never have I regretted not bringing DS more than that time.
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Because keys, while very powerful, do not change the game dynamic in the way Mori's do. A Mori basically turns the game from 5 gens vs 12 hooks into 5 gens vs 4 hooks.
5v12 = Survivors have 41% of the objective that killers do
3v12 = Survivors have 25% of the objective that killers do. BUT only if the killer has completed 50% of his objective already.
4v12 = Survivors have 33% of the objective that killers do. BUT only if the killer has completed 25% of his objective already
5v4 = Survivors have 125% of the objective that killers do. Even if the survivors haven't completed any of their objectives.
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I've had servers do this to me a lot, too. On Switch. Too many games where the game just crashed out of nowhere, and I can't even send a report because there's no option available. I don't think they should get rid of DC Penalties. But they shouldn't let them escalate so fast.
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Both are perks that can be very useful, but also completely useless.
Corrupt does a decent job of slowing the game down, but if the survivors just hide for the first couple of minutes, you won't get a whole lot of use out of it. It can make finding your first survivor much more difficult. Depends a lot on where the survivors spawn. If you get lucky, they won't know you have corrupt intervention.
Discordance helps find survivors working together, but if they work separately it won't get you anything. If you use DIscordance, definitely don't use the offering that separates the survivors at the beginning. (Actually don't use that anyway, its useless.) Potentially can help you find your first survivors easily though. A lot of times, when it could be useful, you can't get much use out of it because you're mid-chase with another survivor. With the upcoming nerf to repair times, this perk won't be quite as useful.
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Criminal Profiling
After breaking 3/2/1 Totems, you will be notified if the Killer has the perk No One Escapes Death or not.
Bulletproof
After recovering from the dying state without being hooked, any damage taken that would put you in the dying state for 15 seconds will instead apply a Deep Wound. You have 10/15/20 seconds to mend yourself. If you take damage while affected by Deep Wound or its timer ends, you are immediately put in the dying state.
Fidelity, Bravery, Integrity
For every survivor you safely unhook, you decrease the Exit Gate Opening time by 2 seconds up to a maximum of 6/8/10 seconds. This decrease only applies to you and not the other survivors. Increases the chances of being the obsession.
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I don't mind people bringing flashlights, but if you bring 3 -- be prepared to lose it.
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@xRem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1230871#Comment_1230871
Keys are the same idea, get 2-3 gens done? Immediately escape for rng.
The hatch doesn't spawn until at least 3 gens are done. If 3 survivors are alive, it doesn't spawn until 4. And if all 4 survivors are alive, it doesn't spawn until all gens are done. So definitely not, get 2-3 gens done.
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- If the killer has no luck in hooking many survivors before the doors are activated, then the survivors should have been able to cleanse totems without feeling pressure, thus, not giving the NOED edge to the killer. It's on them if it activates.
- If survivors allow the killer to get a 4K with NOED in the end game, I would argue that survivors made mistakes during their end game plays or didn't prepare for the potential NOED activation.
This argument fails because if the killer camps one survivor, it creates pressure on the others to do generators, because if they don't -- they turn a 4v1 game into a 3v1 game. They can get one hook, do nothing else, and then survivors have to do gens immediately if they want to get out. They can't stop and do totems, because as soon as they do it's giving the killer free time to camp. And survivors can play very well, but ultimately they still have to open the exit gates. Of which there are only two, and often very close together. Meaning the killer can easily guard both of them before survivors can get them open. The game is literally designed to make sure the killer will eventually catch up to the survivor. NoED rewards lazy play. If the Devs don't understand that, it's really no wonder why the game is in the state its in.
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They'd have to have such a minimal effect, otherwise you'd see everyone playing the same survivor every game.
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@emptyCups said:
Wow the best streamer used camping and tunneling to kill players ??? Wowza better nerf monstrous shrine
Proved nothing, wasted read, do bones
He's a great player, but it's not like he was busting out sick moves in these games. He was doing what any player with at least 50 hours in the game could do. He put forth minimal effort and got 4K against survivors he thought were pretty good. Some were VERY good (and were good sports about it, too. While others weren't, but he understood that.) One semi-good chase, camp, win.
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Here's how to tell if you need to camp or tunnel without waiting 30 seconds:
Are you good at the game? Then you don't need to camp/tunnel.
Are you bad at the game? Then you should probably get better instead of camping or tunneling. But hey, enjoy your boring wins against overly altruistic survivors while you can. Eventually you'll run into a coordinated SWF that'll make you want to quit because you chose to camp and tunnel instead of getting better.
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Because Mori's aren't meant to be a balanced mechanic. They're meant to be something fun and OP, like Keys.
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I think the way to fix camping is this:
-If a Survivor is on the hook, gen speeds are increased 25%
-When the killer is in chase, gen speeds are decreased 25%
Having multiple survivors hooked does NOT increase the speed time past the initial 25%.
When a survivor is on the hook, the killer needs to go find another chase to put gen speeds back to normal. When there are no survivors hooked, while the killer is chasing someone, gens get done a little less fast as a trade-off. There might be a few issues with the numbers, but I think something along those lines would help ease camping.
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Madness would be broken. It's basically a stronger pop with no hook requirement. And it'd be a nightmare in 3-gen situations. You'd have periods where survivors couldn't repair a SINGLE generator.
Inspection sounds good. But I think it'd be healthier if it were just seeing the aura of the survivors for the first couple seconds of the trial.
Discourage is absolutely broken. It rewards camping heavily too. Camping should not be rewarded.
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@xXNurseXx said:
easy and healthy change
- add another surv objective or something
- expand the time survivor are on hooks so more chasing is more efficient than camping
Therein lies the problem.
Adding another objective means that even if you expand time survivors are on hooks, the killer can just spend equal time camping. And for killers who play fair and don't camp, they lose time because survivors can stick to objectives longer before the survivor hits their next hook state. A good survivor won't save right away, they'll wait until it's not only safe, but so as not to waste a survivor's hook state time.
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The problem with NoED is that the Devs have basically green-lit camping as a legit strategy. Without NoED, if killers camp they get gen rushed--as they should--but with NoED as backup they're free to face camp the first survivor they find and then end up with at LEAST 2-3 kills. Possibly even 4. Against a GOOD team. Meanwhile, you can have a GOOD killer playing normally, making limited mistakes, and they end up with FEWER KILLS despite playing better. I'm not sure in what world that's fair in.
Player #1 - Red Rank Killer with 800 hours. Face Camps the first survivor he downs. Camps the second survivor he downs until the last gen is done. NoED pops. He goes for the last two, slugs them both with one hit -- not having hit them the ENTIRE GAME -- and gets an easy 4K.
Player #2 - Red Rank Killer with 800 hours. Leaves the first hook right away. Chases another survivor. Gets another hook, then another, and another. He gets a total of 8 hooks, but only gets 1 kill. His NoED doesn't pop because survivors took time to do totems as well as gens.
Player #2 probably pips, while Player #1 might not (or he might safety pip), but Player 1 walks away with 4 kills and Player 2 walks away with 1 despite playing better and harder). Player #1 probably feels like he won, while Player #2 might not. And that's a problem. In situation #1 Noed is a problem because Survivors don't have TIME to do totems. Because a 4v1 game became a 3v1 game, and doing totems while a killer is camping is a BAD STRATEGY because killers don't see the auras of totems. So you do gens instead.
Player #1 probably had fun. He enjoys camping. The survivors did not have fun. They spent most of the game holding M1 and/or getting camped.
Player #2 probably didn't have fun. He sweat much of the match, and ended up with 1 kill. But the survivors probably had fun.
Throw in things like SWF, and you've basically got a recipe for killers needing help against coordinated teams which in turn makes solos suffer because they can't counter things the way an SWF can. Both sides should be able to have fun. The killer's fun should be important to survivors, and the survivors fun should be important to killers. I think the whole game could use some reworks to make it overall more fun for everyone (except campers and toxic survivors who run straight at the killer with DS and BT and taunt them because they're untouchable)
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Killer - Legion or Pig would make the most sense, I think.
Survivor - Ash. I mean c'mon. Chainsaw Arm? Yes please.
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@csandman1977 said:
Zarina. When she first dropped i had like 7 escapes in a row with her. Took it as a sign. Shes my only p3 50 character either killer or survivor. Am planning to get all the perks but Loris as hers are the only ones i don't have unlocked.
I've had luck with Zarina too. Only played two times with her, trying to get the exit gates. But both times I got the hatch. Can't complain about an escape though.
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@SpicyTopRamen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1227278#Comment_1227278
You can break out of tier 2 now, but you have to hit tier 3 first and 'snap out of it.'
You literally described the problem. You can't 'snap out of it' in Tier 2. You have to get up to tier 3 first, which means you can spend a long time in Tier 2. Which is the problem.
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Meg. I've got all the perks on her. Hoping to do the same with Nancy eventually though.
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I think they just need to slightly decrease the timer for being broken. Instead of 110/100/90 maybe 90/80/70 seconds.
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Wraith isn't fun to play against a lot too, but that's more because the people who play him tend to be campers. And that's more a player thing than a killer thing.
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Ahh yes, let's nerf pig. She should be a 110 killer. Also let's remove her stealth mechanic. And while we're at it we might as well make it so that her blades can't hurt you either. Game perfectly balanced!
When you get a party hat put on you, prioritize taking it off. Taking time to do literally anything else, and its your fault if you die to it. I've seen survivors jump on that LAST GEN with an inactive RBT and just pound away at that last gen. They manage to get it, and then run for the exit gate where their head explodes because they just HAD to do that gen. (Their teammates teabag them for being so dumb)
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Not counting add-ons and stuff? Doctor. Stealth is useless, and you can't break out of tier 2 madness.
Counting add-ons, then it's Iri Head Huntress with Infantry Belt, NoED, and an Ebony Mori. (Actually faced one of those once... hope never to ever again) She might not have had an infantry belt, I can't remember.
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Moris definitely need a nerf. The popular idea to hook every survivor once is pretty fair. Or they could make it so that people can only be Mori'd when all 5 gens are done (for Ivory) or 4 gens (for Ebony). Then change the hatch spawn so that it only spawns when either two survivors are left alive and 4 gens are done, or only when all the gens are completed, or when one survivor is left alive.
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5 minutes is nothing.
I've had my game crash multiple times in day, and got a much bigger penalty. That's where the problem lies.
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Killer Perk:
It Begins
At the start of the trial, see the aura of all survivors for 3/4/5 seconds. Movement speed increased by 5% until you perform a basic attack or special attack.
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@BigTimeGamer said:
Im gonna paste my reply from the other thread before the "Bringing in line" argument pops up here too:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/145651/why-do-i-lose-my-add-ons
" To bring survivors in line with Killer addons "
This doesn't work either as Killer earns VASTLY more BP.
Think of it like this:
As Huntress, lets say I run Infantry Belt and Begrimed Hatchets - 12k Loadout
As Survivor, I run a Purple Flashlight, Green Battery, and Low Amp - 15k Loadout
Now, as Huntress with BBQ, I can earn around 50-60k, a 38k Profit minimum
As Survivor, average games net around 18-25k assuming no WGLF and I escape with my flashlight, thats still only a 9k profit on the low end, 3k if I die.
The concept of "bringing in line with killers" doesn't work when you factor in logic
Its just math folks
Why do you assume BBQ+Chili, but NOT WGLF? That doesn't seem fair. Or hey, IDK. Ace in the hole?
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If you're at Rank 5 I'd say you're doing fine. That's about when the game starts taking a turn, and games become more difficult as you face fewer survivors who don't know how to deal with whichever kill you're playing. Losses are more memorable than your wins because losses feel much worse than wins feel good. Especially with survivors who teabag you at the exit gates after you avoided tunneling them to death because you wanted to play fair. Just do your best, and know that you'll get better the more you play. Chances are you're much better now than you were a month ago.
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Styptics are just as gamechanging as most iri add-ons for killer.
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I like the idea, but it seems a bit too exploitable. And reconnecting to a match would take some time. I think a killer should be allowed to reconnect, and avoid the DC penalty. (Survivors would be able to get boldness points from going into the basement or standing in the killer's terror radius unless it was a wraith). But survivors? Just seems to exploitable.
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Not sure if a husk would help you in this scenario or not. Depends on how fast after the first guy DC'd that the other guy found the hatch. If it was immediate, a husk wouldn't help. But I'm not opposed to killers being allowed to hang a husk.
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The problem with NoED is that it rewards the lazy killer who camps their first hook, and then 4k's because the exit gates spawned next to each other and the survivors had to "Just do gens!" because the killer was camping, and to punish a camping killer--you "Just do gens".
I don't think NoED needs a strong nerf, but like DS it's in need of a slight nerf. One that makes it a little more bearable for the other side.
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@HellDescent said:
Gates spawn when game begins
Yes, and perks are chosen before the game begins.
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I like the idea of a bonus for a rotation of perks that encourage using them. Something like the shrine/dailys, but you get bonus bloodpoints for using them. Bonus applied after the game.