Khroalthemadbomber
Khroalthemadbomber
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- Khroalthemadbomber
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Once again I ask what was the point of posting that then if it does nothing to aid the situation? Because, and not to sound rude, it almost comes across like trying to self-advertise one's channel by making it seems relevant to a discussion when in fact it's not.
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@Clockso said:
it is actually possible to drop survivors who have d-strike active, however there are rules for this to work:
this only works if you grab them from a generator or grabbing them while they're unhooking someone, and the last rule is that the skill check success zone is to the left side so that the skill check arrow has to spend more time spinning to reach it, giving you time to drop them. it is impossible to drop them when grabbing them from a locker or picking them up after downing them, once the grab animation happens and u know the survivor just got unhooked spam the R button and you'll drop them, also if you down them EXACTLY under the hook, pick them up and immediately hook them giving the game no time to react to the skill check.
Ok that's all fine and dandy but how does that help this situation besides promote that video clip? Because as you stated; you can't do it on locker grabs.
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You know I'd be down for a token based perk that allows you to reconstruct a pallet for each token you have for over a period of time. Say like 5-10 seconds of uninterrupted M1 progress and 1 token per rank
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@Clockso said:
i actually like this "nerf" i've been able to down my obsession with 8 stacks and it feels so good when i do it, and in general, remember me stacks can be gained by just uncrouching and smacking them, same with dark devotion, i never ambush someone at a generator, instead i uncrouch and get a chance to pull them off.
In some regards though, you're proving my point. The Ambush itself had little point to begin with and was merely used to get up close, but never in turn activated except in certain cases. While YES you can now kill your Obsession with Ambush and keep all your STBFL stacks, that's literally the only good thing to come of this. That and it requires you to land not one but two Ambushes on said Obsession to drop them in the first place and repeat the Ambush tunnel until they're dead. This is also assuming that no one else brought D-Strike to take the Obsession role and now apply it to themselves, which does happen frequently in matches. Should this happen, you're once again needing to Ambush the NEXT Obsession down repeatedly while the remaining survivors crank out generators.
And that's only the use of one perk. The change to Ambush has now rendered NUMEROUS perks almost obsolete. I've posted this list around a few times, but here's the full run down:
Does Work:
Anything that offers 'Exposed,' and Sloppy Butcher.
What Does Not:
Save The Best For Last (can not gain or lose stacks), Hex: The Third Seal, Remember Me (can not gain stacks), Dark Devotion, Franklin's Demise, Mettle of Man (can not gain stacks as survivor)
What shouldn't even be tried:
Play With Your Food. You lose tokens the moment you activate the ambush, whether you fully charge it or not.
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I would much rather my teammates break the Ruin totem next to me then instantly yank me off hook ^_^
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@Ksoni said:
Aimbush attack isn't considered as basic attack so it doesn't remove your Save the best for last stacks.
Ambush also doesn't give Remember Me stacks, add stacks to STBFL, apply Dark Devotion, Third Seal, Franklin's Demise, give stacks of MoM to survivors and will apparently soon no longer apply Sloppy Butcher.
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So final confirmation: the reason Pig got nerfed is because they decided to change game mechanics again and once again, Pig got caught in the crossfire.
Basically if the killer's power scoring sequence does not end with you using M1 to hit the survivor, it will no longer be eligible for perks that require basic attacks.
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@Kerbert said:
Well thats bullshit
What I'm taking from this is that they decided to change game mechanics AGAIN and because of this, Pig gets nerfed. AGAIN.
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From MClean on his Discord:
"@Khroal the Mad Bomber We're slowly formalizing the basic attack system. Things like bear traps, hatchets, vomit, chainsaws and the ambush attack are not counted as basic attacks
We can't go on a case-by-case basis for every interaction between every attack type and every attack-triggered perk
It's a big cleanup, since there are a lot of perks that trigger off attacks, and there are quite a few different attacks in the game
Deciding whether an attack is a basic attack or not should be based on whether it satisfies the criteria we expect from a basic attack ("is it pretty much just a regular ol' lunge?") rather than the perceived power level of the character
I expect Sloppy Butcher will be updated to trigger on basic attacks."
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Ok I doubt my question is going to get answered. With that in mind, I THINK these two answers to other posts are the closest I'm going to get to WHY the Ambush got changed:
"Hi -insertnamehere-, we will be looking into her add-ons at some point, and we have other changes coming. We started this year by buffing her crouch/ uncrouch timings and recently changed the crouch speed curve to make it much more smooth."
"The Pig just got a tiny adjustment in the recent mid-chapter patch to make her crouch work a bit smother. On top of this, there will be another change coming at a later stage that will affect her stealth ability. More info soonTM."
So SOMETHING is going to happen to her Stealth. Whatever that is, is warranting this premature nerf apparently...
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Well I've posted to the Reddit AMA about this so if I get a response I'll post the answer here.
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@Ham_Lord said:
I think she is fine, and I play a ton of pig. She is the only killer in the game with set and forget mori's. Granted, against good survivors you will need to run the deadly trap combo (extra box + short timer) to get them consistently.
This is the same arguement made by a few Old Freddy Players. YES you may be able to get people with the killer but that does not in turn mean the killer is good.
With the Ambush nerf she's hurting quite a bit. Tack on the fact that survivors can EASILY remove RBTs without them ever becoming a threat and the unfortunately neccessary EGC nerf to her, suffice to say she's heading to a pretty sad place.
While YES she did receive a VERY minor buff recently in terms of crouch and uncrouch speed, it doesn't change the fact that too many of her add-ons are synergistically too reliant on one another where in many regards it's difficult to mix and match like you can on other killers. You're either going for Ambushes or RBT kills. Tack on that she also has some of the worst add-ons in the game (by that I mean some of her add-ons are the worst in the game not all of them), and she needs a LOT of love.
Sadly though the Year of the Pig is becoming Year of Putting the Pig into a Pit of Nerf Bats.
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Save the Best for Last was generally one of my go-to perks but due to the Ambush change I've found it a tad bit harder to build up the stacks.
Whispers is good. It clicks on and you've got basic map awareness, you can go crouch and quite easily catch people off guard.
I've taken to enjoyment of I'm All Ears as well. Yeah there's a cooldown but you can do a LOT with Ambush and the given information.
Other notables are the obvious Ruin, Brutal Strength, Pop Goes the Weasel, Thrilling Tremors, etc. More or less stuff that'll help you in chases, locating survivors, and manage generators.
As for add-ons, stay away from anything that alters skill checks on the Jigsaw Boxes as those are worthless, Amanda's Secret is the worst add-on in the game, and the mangled/hemorrhaging add-ons don't do much either. Looking at the add-ons themselves it's clear which ones mesh with others better, so feel free to experiment and go nuts ^_^
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@Ham_Lord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/606211#Comment_606211
Huh? Jigsaws sketch + tampered timer ups the lethality of the traps by like 2x. Normally you get 4 boxes and enough time to search all 4 boxes. With that combo you get 5 boxes and enough time to search maybe 3-4 boxes. It's just an instant free kill if you are unlucky with the RNG.
To be fair, we Pig players DO have the worst add-on in the game in the form of "Amanda's Secret."
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@Liruliniel Infectious Fright works. Just tested it. But there is no auditory, only visual. You can't hear them scream.
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Amanda's Letter and Video Cassette and I main Pig as well ^_^
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Oh certainly needing at least a quarter of them reworked but the whole Ambush thing my bitching would cease lol.
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@Liruliniel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/607210#Comment_607210
I could understand if it was Ghostface fast at least it would start as a makeup for all of these.
If it were Ghostface fast I would drop ALL my complaints and call it a valid balance.
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@HatCreature said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/606520#Comment_606520
@Khroalthemadbomber This list is depressing, the fact it even exists is ridiculous. I've been using Ambush more and more, trying to make it useful and this just makes using it even more of a pain and actually encourages you NOT to use it.
Oh you have Remember Me? Better hope your Obsession isn't on that Gen when you use your Ambush? You have anything that helps you at all then never use your Ambush because it WON'T WORK. Good job Devs good job, I remember them saying that if Pig needed a buff of some kind of because their changes then they would do it so I hope they get around to doing it because they keep screwing her over.
Pig and Freddy don't need add-ons to be effective and now they're making perks just completely unusable with her already tainted ability.
But didn't you read? Pig crouches and uncrouches faster now! That TOTALLY makes up for this right?!
Me: ........
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@Liruliniel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/606520#Comment_606520
I wish Franklin's and Remember me worked with the dash sadly. Does infectious fright work or not btw? I'm getting better with her Dash, but not good enough to test these in actual gameplay yet.
Infectious Fright is based on Terror Radius of the killer at the moment the survivor is dropped to the ground. As your TR reactivates as the Ambush is occuring, I can not think of a reason why it wouldn't but I've not yet tested it. I'll be sure to try that out when I get home and let you know ^_^
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Updated List thanks to Chi here on the forums;
Does Work:
Anything that offers 'Exposed,' and Sloppy Butcher.
What Does Not:
Save The Best For Last (can not gain or lose stacks), Hex: The Third Seal, Remember Me (can not gain stacks), Dark Devotion, Franklin's Demise, Mettle of Man (can not gain stacks as survivor)
What shouldn't even be tried:
Play With Your Food. You lose tokens the moment you activate the ambush, whether you fully charge it or not.
So survivors are unable to gain MoM stacks versus Pig ambush.
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OH did not know that! Allow me to add that to my list! Thank you @Chi !
Updated List;
Does Work:
Anything that offers 'Exposed,' and Sloppy Butcher.
What Does Not:
Save The Best For Last (can not gain or lose stacks), Hex: The Third Seal, Remember Me (can not gain stacks), Dark Devotion, Franklin's Demise, Mettle of Man (can not gain stacks as survivor)
What shouldn't even be tried:
Play With Your Food. You lose tokens the moment you activate the ambush, whether you fully charge it or not.
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So basically what happened was I was running Ruin and Haunted Ground. All round they left the two Haunted Ground alone until they popped the gens and green decided to break the totem and I claimed three people because of it lol.
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I'll let this speak for itself lol
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@Ark_the_Bonsai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/605578#Comment_605578
They even purposefully side stepped it on the Q&A stream lol. One of them assumed they'd be talking about it on the stream but immediately had that thought cut off
Oh I know I saw it...
Look on his face: BULLET DODGED!
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@Talmeer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/605555#Comment_605555
This made me giggle^^, but I can fully understand your reaction, had a pretty similar a while ago.
All I can do is laugh because it's obvious I'm not going to get ######### from the devs as to why they've done this despite my numerous attempts.
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Me: ...
Devs: "So yeah! We nerfed Pig's Ambush, but hey! She crouches and uncrouches faster and that's a good tradeoff, right?"
Me: ...
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Doc's OPness comes from the right map with the right add-ons and the right perks to coincide. You put that same build on virtually ANY other map and you will not see the same results.
He's honestly not that powerful once you learn the range of his base zaps, and even his green add-on zaps aren't that bad to dodge once you get a handle on it.
And before people point out "Well so-and-so just made a video showing how powerful Doc is" don't... People tried to do the same with Freddy and were wrong too. No, Doctor is nowhere NEAR as bad as old Freddy (it's amazing how actually being able to hit your opponents right off can do that), but he certainly needs a new prescription to handle Survivors that know how to play the game now.
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Is it going to be a Nurse nerf? I know they said add-on rework but I don't think they said ANYTHING about nerfing her baseline abilities.
As for Doctor, maybe making the brown chess piece add-on by default so there's no doubt the range on it for killer side, and get rid of the zero zap zone by giving him a big ol' hug.
His skill check bit I feel is a nice change of pace but I feel as though could be shifted more for a greater added effect of madness. Like say adding sideways skill checks or backwards or upside down ones. Hell maybe even randomly give a skillscheck noise with no check to follow up on it. Give the survivors a true feeling of really going insane.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/601784#Comment_601784
"What shouldn't even be tried:
Play With Your Food. You lose tokens the moment you activate the ambush, whether you fully charge it or not."
What.
Oh yeah. I went through EVERYTHING during my testing of the new ambush. You even TAP that ambush button and you lose PWYF stacks.
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@Liruliniel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/601898#Comment_601898
That's true, but I just realized how many topics of it there are when I looked at the page. You think people might look at one of those instead of creating a new one.
That requires people actually looking with their eyes and doing work based effort lol.
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@Liruliniel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/601784#Comment_601784
Getting Pig topics a lot as of late.
Well I mean when they nerf her for no real reason and then act as though they intend to skate around questions, giving no real clarification as to why things were done, that's going to lead to some topics lol.
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As I posted in my own topic and a similiar topic to this, the EGC changes were neccessary due to baseline traps have a ticker of 2.5 minutes and with add-ons it knocks it to a flat 2 minutes.
The issue I CURRENTLY have are the changes to the Ambush Attack as only five perks work with it now and four of them are all based around a similiar effects.
Does Work:
Anything that offers 'Exposed,' and Sloppy Butcher.
What Does Not:
Save The Best For Last, Hex: The Third Seal, Remember Me, Dark Devotion, Franklin's Demise
What shouldn't even be tried:
Play With Your Food. You lose tokens the moment you activate the ambush, whether you fully charge it or not.
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@SpacingLlamas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/601191#Comment_601191
RBT's timers are 2 minutes 30 seconds, not just 2 minutes
Read my post again. I said with Tampered Timer. That takes 30 seconds off it dropping it to two minutes.
@Liruliniel said:
No I understand why it is for EGC, but I still think it should affect the game like it used to before EGC. When all 5 gens are done and gates are powered I still wish it would activate. It gets rid of a lot of pressure she used to have unfortunately.
Oh I agree I feel like it should do SOMETHING but definitely not a full game of "Head Go Boom."
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This'll give you my thoughts on State of Pig: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/77092/a-question-of-clarification
That said, if you don't want to read it, WHOLE bunch of stuff no longer works with Ambush anymore;
Does Work:
Anything that offers 'Exposed,' and Sloppy Butcher.
What Does Not:
Save The Best For Last, Hex: The Third Seal, Remember Me, Dark Devotion, Franklin's Demise
What shouldn't even be tried:
Play With Your Food. You lose tokens the moment you activate the ambush, whether you fully charge it or not.
Personally I'd like a add-on rework for PIG more then I would Nurse but that's just me.
@Liruliniel the EGC change was done because it takes two minutes to kill people and RBT timer with tampered timer is two minutes. While I don't LIKE the change as a Pig main, I DO understand why it was done. Now this AMBUSH B.S. though...
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While we're ON that subject, Ghostface has a new cosmetic coming...
BHVR: "Come here! Come here! Get the cosmetics boy! Come get them!"
-takes tentative step forward-
BHVR: -proceeds to beat senseless with nerf bat-
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@Avilgus said:
Next time be careful if they make skins for Myers, Bubba or Freddy. 😀
Ain't that the god damned truth...
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
I dunno why they didnt address it in the live stream..... like it slid under peoples radar... like I know pig is niche but damn....
Like I said they obviously figured people were going to be pissed judging by the quote on stream but seemed grateful that no one brought it up.
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Yeah the MOMENT a survivor goes into stage two while hooked, dc's, or kills themselves on hook, odds are there's no point in going for the Adept in that match anymore.
As others have said, while resets seem like the best time to do this, you tend to get more dc's THEN than just about any other time in game. You get a dc and... well... see above paragraph.
That's something that's truly irritated me since this change to killer pipping. I can ANNIHILATE all four survivors before a single generator gets done, but I only get rewarded with Brutal Killer because I didn't let ththe survivors attempt to do enough in the match for myself to gain points from stopping them. The system seemingly penalizes good gameplay survivor AND killer side as totally wrecking face rewards you with next to nothing in terms of ranking.
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Oh yes they do lol. Popped into the VoD of a streamer after I nixed them and they said "How does he keep getting his power back so fast?!"
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So OBVIOUSLY the devs expected people to bring up the Pig changes but seemed grateful that no one did as was noted with the quote of "Let me guess, it's about Pig?"
I want to know why these changes were made please.
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SO! The final tally for WHAT works with Ambush and what does not:
Does Work:
Anything that offers 'Exposed,' and Sloppy Butcher.
What Does Not:
Save The Best For Last, Hex: The Third Seal, Remember Me, Dark Devotion, Franklin's Demise
What shouldn't even be tried:
Play With Your Food. You lose tokens the moment you activate the ambush, whether you fully charge it or not.
Once again, I would like to know, why was this changed?
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The issue with the snares is how awkward it is to set them. I've still not yet tried Freddy (been busy seeing what stuff actually WORKS with Pig's ambush now...) but have watch NUMEROUS videos and streams of higher level players all thinking they've set the snare down only to discover that, despite the animation playing, nothing actually happened and they're forced to step backwards to ensure the snare gets put in place right.
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Ok THANKFULLY Rancor seems to work so I PRESUME that all Exposed effects work as well but that remains to be seen as I've not tested yet.
Remaining to be tested: NOED, Sloppy Butcher, Haunted Ground, Dark Devotion, Play With Your Food (want to see if the ambush causes you to lose tokens.)
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Confirmed Things that Do Not Apply: Remember Me, Save the Best for Last, Third Seal. I will add more as I find them...
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@PigMainBigBrain just confirmed it in a match. 3rd Seal did not apply on a successful ambush attack so ANY on-hit perk effects no longer work with Amanda's ambush attack.
I want to know why this was done.
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
- The Pig's Ambush Attack is no longer considered a basic attack.
It better be just for scoring purposes.. if I log in and can't apply sloppy butcher or thano or noED....im uninstalling....
Well Thana would just be injury so it wouldn't matter where it came from.
But yeah after the neccessary, albeit ANNOYING, EGC nerf that had ZERO compensation for the loss of a playstyle, I'm going to be ticked if this is a nerf as well and wonder who at BHVR has a hate-boner for Amanda.
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I mean I'm a frigging PIG main who frequents the red ranks. A "cheap killer. She's impossible to counter. Effing camper (only if you're dumb enough to be in eyesight when I hook). Etcetera." All stuff I hear regularly when playing her lol.
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Ivory I feel is fine same with Cyprus.
But yeah Ebony is too powerful. Don't get me wrong. It was even worse before but I hate it when I decide to play a couple survivor games to mix it up, have a "secret offering" show up, and then get tunneled into oblivion by a Leatherface who will break off whomever he's currently chasing just so he can track me down across the map and mori me. I personally never understood the point of the "4 Man One-Hook Mori Playstyle." How is that even fun to repeatedly do? What SHOULD happen is either every survivor needs to be hooked, the person needs to be death hook, or something else.
I also feel like if the EGC is active, a killer should be able to trigger a mori to kill the last person in style irregardless of being hooked or not. Sort of like in Deathgarden when Scavengers are scrambling to leave. You want to be cocky and t-bag? Be wary of the consequences.
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This might be SLIGHTLY sarcastic but the most difficult killer I generally face are my own teammates. Nothing, besides my own occasional mistakes, kills me faster then the action or inaction of my own teammates. Generally, P3 Claudettes are the worst offenders of this fact.