Kebek
Kebek
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- Kebek
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Ace, he still has many casinos to bankrupt.
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@Freudentrauma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/666340#Comment_666340
Yeah the heal effect should work like Adre for Deep wound. Only heal that effect and keep you injured. But I'm glad that the terror radius condition is gone. When I read the description the first time, I realized how overcomplex the perk is. Keep in mind, that you already need to heal another survivor completely before beeing hooked to even be able to use it in the first place as well. Combined with the terror radius condition it limits the use in play in general.
Now with the change, it can be used much more, but also got the necessary nerf with a longer timer.
Yeah now that I know it doesn't heal from deep wounds to full health I don't mind it. It has really cool design so I hope it makes the cut into some fun builds.
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@Ihatelife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/666396#Comment_666396
Nope it doesn't heals you to heatlh state. You will be still injured.
Oh thank god, you're my saviour sir.
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@Ihatelife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/666340#Comment_666340
It heals you buddy yep.
Does it really really heal you from deep wounds to full health ? If so it's time for a break from playing killer since it's gonna get abused as hell.
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@Ihatelife said:
They buffed also a Second Wind. You don't need to be outside of terror radius anymore, but it's now 30 seconds.
Oh no, I hope it doesn't heal you fully from BT effect since if it does then it's absolutely broken. I really really hope they put back the terror radious condition.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/665759#Comment_665759
Well again I have to state that the other 3 survivors are under no obligation to work as a team. The game is designed around the risk that the other 3 survivors shouldn’t always be relied upon.
Yes but you've started a match with intention of playing it so leaving right at the start has nothing to do with playing as team, it's you giving up on suriviving which is the main goal you should work towards.
We've recently gotten match cancelation system to prevent 3v1 games but DCs and suicides still manage to loophole this amazing new feature. Even if others play greedily I want them to work towards at least their own survival by not letting go instantly they get first hooked and leave everyone benind only because they don't like facing specific killer for example.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/665742#Comment_665742
What kind of abuse though?
Giving someone the hatch?
No no, ofc not that's completely fine as is suiciding in some edge cases where it makes sence to do so. What I want resolved is suiciding early in the match from reasons like facing strong killer or I got donwed first so now I'm mad so I'm leaving and such. Situation where you would ragequit via DC but you decide to suicide insted since it's not punishable in any way but equally harmful to normal gameplay by leaving your team in basically 3v1 or even less if one suicide encourages another one to do so as well.
Lately I've had far too many games where first person instantly suicides on the hook especially in games vs Spirit or Nurse so I felt like bringing attention to this issue.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662898#Comment_662898
Yes, as long as @Crazewtboy or anyone else is wanting to move onto the next game, suiciding on hook is perfectly fine.
The survivor side of the game is designed so that players shouldn’t 100% rely on other survivors to escape. There’s no hard and fast rule that survivors are obligated to work as a team.
But there is a rule that says if you abuse DCing you might get in trouble. Yet suiciding that can be abused in the same way is not punishable in any way. I find that quite problematic so I made this thread to suggest reworking the main issue which is the struggle phase or at least to learn why is abuse of suiciding not punishable from someone like Peanits.
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@chieftaco I still don't know where everyone got the idea I want people to be banned for suiciding. As I said before, I want preferably rework for bad design of hook stages (which is my opinion ofc) or give some kind of punishments like time outs for example and only to players who abuse suiciding meaning you do it like 60% or more of your matches. Players like that don't have much room for improvements since they don't want to try to improve when things get a little more diffictult.
Problem here lies (at least from my experience) in that suiciders are people who actually don't give you time to be alturistic. Believe me I would LOVE to go save them but they just decide to not even give me a chance to do the save. You still talk that suiciding is ok when your teammates are all doing literally nothing or trying to farm you but what about the situations where you play well and want to go for the save asap but the hooked person suicides extremely early (like DCers do) before you get the chance. Those are the scenarios that I want to see changed.
Actually it's the exact opposite, we were doing progress and I timed my saves to be soon enough before they would hit the struggle phase but they suicide sligtly before I would have saved them. Or even worse the instant second they got hooked. If I was playing around rank 15 then fine it's a new player who doesn't know any better but I play around rank 7 where people should already know what they are doing. And it's really weird that I get suiciders far more often when I face nurse or spirit.
Again, I can understand your frustration from playing with people who do nothing and subsequent desire to end the match early for yourself but I that's not why I made this thread. I made to to bring attention that suiciding can be abused in similar way that DCing is. I just want to stop seeing people who use hook as a way to leave match early from personal reasons that don't have a foundation in your teammates positioning or behaviour (mostly) but rather personal grudges against some game features like facing powerfull killers or possibilty of beiing downed first and thus getting angry with the game and wanting to ragequit which is not normal gameplay. I don't want anyone to be banned, I want to find a way to prevent possible current and future exploitation of this (in my opinion bad that should be changed at least sligtly) game design. There are legitime times where suiciding is kind of fine but also times where it ruins match for everyone involved. I want the cases where it shouldn't be happening resolved preferebly be reworking the main problem which is the struggle phase (like for example removing the constant pressing of space and just let player hang there for 1 min without any intrusions).
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@chieftaco So you basically just assume whatever everyone is doing is wrong in that situation and decide that your time isn't worth giving them even a chance. Pity that solo survivors don't share psychic link so that they can always know if someone is going for the safe, right. Maybe you shouldn't play solo survivor if you always assume the worst about your teammates and just play SWF where your time is properly invested with teammates that fit your idea of correct gameplay.
Once again pity that I as solo survivor can't always know if someone is going for the safe or not. I should just always assume that if I hit the first struggle phase that my teammates are bad and don't know how to play and just suicide insted of realizing that non-SWF survivors can't always know who is closest to the hook and it's possible to hit the struggle phase even without killer's influence unlike in SWF where it's almost impossible.
By that logic each time survior is hooked all solo survivors should stop doing gens and rush to the hook. Then killer camps the hook since nobody is doing gens and without proper coordination (like SWF has) you can't really do safe unhook in that situation. I'm not asking anyone to martyr for me. I want people to not abuse possiblity of suiciding and give their teammates a chance since they lack a lot of information that SWF has and they can't always send out perfectly timed rescuses. I even get teammates that suicide after the killer leaves them and I head towards them for the safe, they suicide mere seconds before I would save them. As stated many times before, my main problem is with people who abuse suiciding to do legit DCs at the start of the match. Don't throw me in the box of punish everyone who dares to let go of struggle phase or attempts to kobe. I just want matches without someone leaving outright.
Tbh I'm almost tempted to just always go down first just so that I can avoid people who decide to suicide because they went down first. But that would be contradictory to my main belief to always do your best no matter the circumstances. It's just so frustrating to get game after game where first survivor instantly suicides without any real provocation. I just want a normal match with 4 survivors doing gens while unhooking each other as often as possible. Is it too much to ask for normal match without someone leaving ?
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@Warlock_2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/664349#Comment_664349
Yes, I am aware, but you don't seem to fully understand the policy. Going into a match and just going afk can be punished, but a short afk in the middle of a match where you actually participate, but then go afk for a few minutes, is not punishable.
Bottom line is the devs have mentioned before that there is no concern about suicide on hook, so it will not, and should not, be punished. Furthermore, it is not out of control and does not need addressing, especially when compared to bigger issues.
And yes, I know what the hush system is, but last I heard it was barely at conceptualizing, nowhere near being put into game. Not sure they will keep it if they did put it in game. There is too many ways to exploit such a system.
I did say abuse of AFKing didn't I ? So I actually do understand it very well. Ofc nobody is gonna punish you if you have to leave the keyboard a few times for a moment once in a while but if you abuse this to the point that it ruins other people's matches consistently then you can be in danger of punishment.
It's not out of control ? We don't know that. For me every third match has first minute suicider. You may have never seen one. Someone else can be that kind of person who does it every match they face nurse/spirit. Once DCs get their appropriate attention suiciding will only get worse since it's a non-punishable DC. It not beiing as spread now doesn't make it any less problematic. It's one of the worst things that can happen since 4 people have to deal with it if they wanted fair match. I don't know about you but match cancelation system was put in place to prevent games with less then 5 people. DCers and suiciders still manage to get around this and that makes it very important problem.
Even if it will be exploited (husk system) it's a step in right direction. With coming servers this may come out sooner then we realize. It would still be better to have new system that can be changed to be less exploitable then not having any at all like it is now.
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@Warlock_2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/664242#Comment_664242
So, let's say you punish suicides, which virtually impossible (see below). What's next? Survivors who either want out or don't feel like feeding points to a tunneling/camping killer, or realize their team is doing nothing will just go afk. Now we punish afk? Eventually you will be screaming over killer que times because many of the solo survivors will be playing other games or killer.
Why is it impossible to punish suicides?
1. Kobe off the hook is a real thing. Every survivor has the right to try
2. Lag, lack of attention, outside influence can all cause you to not jam your struggle button fast enough to avoid death.
3. My wife avoided struggle phases one night because her carpal tunnel was acting up and her brace made it physically irritating to struggle. (Physical disabilities can play into it)
4. It is a strategy. If the killer hooks a survivor and the survivor sees the last one is near the hatch on the other side of the map, it may make sense to suicide to give the hatch. Killer might not like it, but too bad.
5. Furthermore, survivor may see the others are all hiding around the map doing nothing while the killer is camping. Why should the hooked survivor be forced to hang around? Nobody doing gens, nobody coming for rescue, and killer is camping. Try for Kobe and let it go, next match pls.
Did you know that abusing AFKing is already punishable offence ? You probably don't since sound like you didn't know. Also killer que times become horrible by themselfs randomly since that's how DBD has been since 2016. Sometimes they kinda work, sometimes they don't. Punishing abuse of suiciding actually helps solo survivors since that's why I made this thread. Beacuse in almost 6 games in a row I got a random entiteled childish survivor who either didn't like the killer we faced or got downed early and just suicided. It ruins the fun from playing survivor so much more then it does for killer.
So now to the second part.
- I even stated that I don't really mind first hook stage, it's the struggle phase that needs serious rework. I wish people would actually read what I wrote and stopped making stuff up
- That's why I suggested to rework the struggle phase so you don't have an option to do anything = no pressing any buttom, no suiciding. Just hanging there for 1 minute.
- Same reasoning as 2.
- If killer really wants to 4k he just slugs and goes to close the hatch. Also did you hear about possible new feature coming called The Hush system ? If that gets implemented then even DCing won't be able to give last survivor the hatch so yet another way to deny this "strategy".
- If the killer camps it's even more important to not let go since if you do, you encourage killer to camp even more since you make him think that "it works". I think that hanging there for one little minute isn't that much of a sacrafice especially to prevent abuse of this "feature" to ruin matches like DCing does in early minutes of the match out of spite from facing something you don't like.
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@Zixology said:
Alright. By your own twisted logic, we should just remove the ability for survivors to suicide.
Therefore, survivors would have unlimited escape attempts. Yep. There ya go. Problem solved.
We did it boys! Suiciding is no more!
Did you even read what I wrote ? I said to rework it even stating that first hook stage is kinda fine the way it is but that second stage should be at the very least remade so it's less obnoxious and to not allow suiciding.
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@DAMNFASTDEAD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/84565/suiciding-should-be-treated-as-dcing
I always find that interesting when they say someone quits the game and ruins the game for the other players.
I find this arrogance to see it that way incredibly audacious. But it's quite simple from my point of view:
The quitter is gone, so it's up to the other players to make the most of the game and if that doesn't work because of people's inability, then it's the quitter's fault?
If the Devs actually introduce such penalties, then I don't care.
Well DBD is designed as 4 survivors vs 1 killer so reducing the survivor amount by 1 in the first minute by someone quitting actually does ruin the balance of the match thus ruining it for those who stayed.
Devs already punish abuse of DCing so why should suiciding that can ruin the match in the same way should be treated differently ? Current rules are beiing loopholed and if dedicated servers help with the DC issue then suiciding will only become the new way to DC without penalties. I want that to be fixed so it can't be abused now or in the future.
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@Mochan said:
And how you do you determine if a person is suiciding?
There is way too much potential for false positives.
Removing ability to suicide at hook does nothing. If a person doesn't want to play you cannot do anything about it. Can bring a horse to water but can't force it to drink and all that jazz.
A person who is not willing to play will ruin your game regardless.
You are just trying to treat a symptom, but not addressing the real root of the problem: why are survivors not feeling engaged enough to play the game properly?
That is what you should focus on, instead of bandaid fixes like this which serve nobody.
You don't need to determine it. I've said I want it reworked so that it can't be abused/loopholed to do "legit disconnect" as it is now.
Not giving them the possibilty to suicide makes them usefull to their teammates for the minimum of those 2 minutes so that they can do gens while killer is worried about the hooked person. It also gives them time to cool off if they are in ragequitting mood so they might even decide to continue playing.
They are free to ruin my game by their dumb playstyles as much as they want as long as they obey the rules. My problem is that the rules punish DCers but don't suiciders who do the same thing but "legitimately". Current rules are beiing loopholed by this stupid design that I want to be reworked.
Why they aren't engaged to play properly ? Well maybe because they think that as long as something doesn't suit their personal rules they don't have to face it. Facing viable killer = leaves, gets downed early = leaves, teammates don't rush to save me = leaves. Any dumb reason really, is good enough for some people to just give up. If the rules didn't say you can't cheat then everyone would be cheating. That's why that rule is there. Similar rule is there to punish people who abuse DC buttom too much and constantly ruin other people's games by leaving. That's why I don't undrstand why there is "legit way to DC" via suiciding. It either needs to be included into the rules or reworked so that it can't be abused and punished in some way (like time outs for example).
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@Warlock_2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662898#Comment_662898
That's an empty argument. How many killers have bragged about camping/tunneling and said they don't play for other people's enjoyment? Same goes for a survivor who is stuck in a crap match with a toxic killer and potato survivors.
Main difference here is that if killer does these things he's throwing the game against competent survivors and will lose if survivors react appropriately, maybe not even getting that 1 kill he wants so much.
While if the survivor suicides he's ruining the match for his teammates and killer alike if they want fair match and there is nothing that can be done about it. You can counter camping/tuneling in at least small way. What you can't counter are stupid teammates who are childish and can't handle facing viable killer, getting downed early or some other dumb reason why they would suicide within first few minutes.
I can't do anything as survivor if my teamates decides to do "legit disconnect" by suiciding since he's not feeling like playing. Why even start the match if aren't even willing to play it out. I find this to be loopholing of the DC issue and it should be threated the same since it ruins the match in the same way.
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@chieftaco Good reason ? You think that there is a good reason to suicide in first minute of the match ? People who do that are ragequiteres who can't handle getting downed early or face viable killer. But maybe me doing gens without any information what my teammates may be doing is actually encouraging the hooked person to suicide since it's obviously my fault that I didn't instantly rush to save them and prioritized the main objective. Or maybe they are just satly and impatient.
Obliged in a way that devs designed hook stage to last for 2 minutes and when you willingly suicide within first few minutes of the match on your first hook then it should be treated the same way DCing is since you're doing the same thing = ruining the match for everyone because of your childish behaviour. Why should one way of leaving the match prematurely should be punished while other is considered legit when they ruin the match in the same way ? Suiciding this early is nothing more then loopholing current disconnecting system.
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And only proof for that claim is your word. I hope you have twitch so that we can bathe in glory of your skill and admire you.
Also you can try playing blind(with your monitor off), that should make it pretty hard to 4k.
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@antgnstea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/663103#Comment_663103
What I see here we both want the same thing. A compensation for their actions. We just look at it from different ends. I think any punishment won't fix the underlying issue, and want something else from developers. And you want these kids to behave well and fear the authority. Same discussion, different approaches.
It seems so. Well it was fun discussing with you and I'm glad we found mutual understanding. Let's look forwad to devs resolving this issue in some reasonable way.
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@bigbeefynacho said:
I have a friend whose controller does a lot. This sometimes results in her inadvertently "suiciding" on the hook. Should she be punished? (And, yes, she has ordered a new charger and controller if ur wondering).
No since she's not abusing the system to get "no pushment disconect" as I stated in precious posts.
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@Xelaranger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662898#Comment_662898
What about the time I played with these 2 German playera who never did a gen on the game (post lobby they said it was the worst map so why try) I literally am the only person in this game doong gens so of course ghostface does nothing but tunnel me (not even mad he is playing properly at least even though being tunnled can be annoying sometimes)
. To my suprise this lasts for 15 minutes before anyone dies still no gens done I find one of the German players running around in a circle but every time anyone gets hooked he sprint bursts and saves even with killer still there.
after about 25 minuets I have only managed to complete 1 generator and the ghost face will not let me do them so he finds me and I stop running. Let him hook me and kill myself.
Finally I spectate and the ghostface has bodyblocked the player in a corner and they are just having a tbag dance party until end game collapse. After which German player says he was the worst ghoatface ever (clearly not true if only 1 gen was completed)
But let me ask you something would you rathet let me suicide when I want or quit playing this game app together because of how you feel? i know there is a time and place for buying 1 whole minute on hook because "obligation" (bs btw no one owes you anything) but there also is a no punishment for not doing gens and only doing altruism. In my opinion my time in a match is a valueable rescource to my team but MORE IMPORTANTLY MYSELF, if I dont think your worth my time, a good teammate, or i just don't care about you it is my choice to choose to die or if my teammates deserve those precious seconds.
I'm getting really tired from all this posting so let's make it short. It's not matter of gameplay but loopholeing the DC issue. Suiciding can be abused to be a bad behaviour and bad behaviours need sufficient punishments.
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@antgnstea said:
@Kebek I have problem with people who suicide at the start of the match to ruin the game for everyone since they want to ragequit without any punishments.
This ruins your game, cause you probably depip because of them, all the offerings, items addons go wasted, and you couldn't earn much of a bloodpoint. Am I wrong?
I am saying they should compensate that as a new system. And I am saying, this actions wouldn't matter that much, if we didn't have to suffer the consequences . That is what needs to change. You can not enforce good behaviour by threatening to ban.
Well I've had pretty decent matches even if they leave. Maybe even some of the most legendary ones but that happened only once. About 60-80% yes it results in very bad experience for everyone that was left behind.
I never said to ban them. I said punishment. That can be anything, like time out for 1,2,3,5 or even 10 minutes. Depening how often they misbehave. My main issue is how to lessen the consequences for those who are left behind without it beiing abuseable. Probaly best solution would be to give everyone minimum of blackpip and some BP compensation for the DCer or suicider.
Dunno if just forcing someone to just sit there for 2 minutes is really that much of a problem. The new reworked hook stage would only make minimum time to ragequit 2 minutes. That's not even that long if you just wanna play another match. You wouldn't have to press anything, just wait it out so that killer can be fooled to think that you are still there and you can still be a threat if saved by teammates. It's all just for the sole reason to give other surviros time to do gens and not screw them over by someone's childish behaviour.
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@twistedmonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/663013#Comment_663013
That is why I think the devs need to look at doing something with the husk system so in the scenario of that leather face the survivors could then see the survivor was no longer in the game and dont go for the save. SWF already have that option afterall.
Insidious is one perk which I think promotes a way of playing the devs are trying to discourage along with some others like dying light so overall it could do with a rework.
Personally I dont see many suiciders on the first hook and it generally only happens when its met with a reason. Dcing is the bigger issue but once that is dealt with who knows if suiciding may increase in theory it will as you say. I think in part the increase possibilty is why the husk system is also being implemented but until we have more details on it we cant really comment if its going to help.
I have never really agreed with removing someones game for using something which is available, esculating temp bans sure but never a perma. The only reason I think a perma ban should be issued is for hacking/cheating. I thought in the past serial DCers should be put in a lobby much like GTA V where you wear a dunce hat but time out is certainly a much better option.
I look at punishing for usng what is a feature and think about those that ask for a punishment for campers/tunnelers as they can also ruin the game for the person hooked but imo its always better to disuade people from doing so and for the devs to make it beneficial not too.
They can make it so it shakes it's hands and make official DBD tutorial that says that shaking hands mean killer is hard camping don't come for me. Then even the husk could possible fool the killer into thinking it's a real player.
Agreed, together with other pretty much useless perks.
True, if husk system solves suiciding this thread was very much pointless.
I think people would actually pay for dunce hat tbh xD, maybe even I would (depends for which survivor).
Yeah but how do you dissuade someone who wants to rage quit via suicide. They don't really think about sicne they are mad. I think that giving them those 2 minutes could cool them down and if nobody saves them during that time they get their much desired death.
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@BloodyNights said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/663020#Comment_663020
Well you mentioned the whole gen rushing thing so I was weighing in on it. To me I don't think survivors have anything in their kit that compares to Mori's. Also I find that most killers who use Ebony Mori's do so because they probably had a bad game, the game before. So they are looking to ruin survivors games. Usually they are accompanied by their strongest add-ons, like Iridescent Hatchet Huntress, Prayer Beads Spirit etc.
Most people don't take them normally. Usually pride says no to it because it's seen as a cheap and easy way to win, or because they don't get very much bloodpoints, and tend not to rank up. However Ebony Mori killer is still way more common than a super coordinated SFW Teams all carrying Insta heal medkits. lol
Yeah we just see things differently and that's fine. But ebony is not as gamebreaking as people claim it to be. Ofc it's very strong but why couldn't it be. Not like DBD right now is in perfect state of balance. Both sides have broken stuff and opinion regarding which is has more broken stuff differ.
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@antgnstea said:
And if they do suicide againt that LF they give him exactly what he wants. Free instant kill so that he can go hunt another poor soul and he'll keep on doing it since he will think that "it works". What needs to happen in that situation is that nobody comes for the poor souls while he heroicly keeps the beast at bay and allows them to do gens. If they run into him they'll learn the hard way what the right call was.
So just to be clear you are fine with hook suicide as killer in the beginning of a game. They couldn't or shouldn't fix that. But you have a problem if you can't get the last guy because of it.
And as survivor how much of a good teammate do you think that suicide guy will be, if he forced to be in the game? Do you think he help you fix gens or unhook you when needed? Yes it sucks I am right there with you, but it can not be punishable.
What ? I despise it as every role at any point of the match, even if the said survior wants to give me hatch. I think that each survivor should stay on the hook for their 2 minutes no matter what excepnt when everyone is hooked and it's a waste of time.
Why would I have problem with getting the last guy because of suicide when I could have left him on the ground. If he DCes he'll get punished if he does it too many times. I have problem with people who suicide at the start of the match to ruin the game for everyone since they want to ragequit without any punishments.
That said survivor will be haning before the killer keeping him there so that others can do gens. If he suicides he'll allows that camping killer to go for someone else. He's a hero who used his time for the right thing and I respect him for not ending it early.
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@BloodyNights said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662989#Comment_662989
It does take a lot of mistakes. But you know some killers also make mistakes. Most of the time when I do get genrushed it's because I took too long chasing a survivor in areas I shouldn't have been chasing them because of the loops/strong pallets. When I should have been protecting my gens, or at least pushing the survivors towards a certain part of the map. Too many killers see 2 to 3 gens pop off at once and go...here we go again. Without realizing that the survivors had free reign to repair them due to their own placement on the map.
Now it's not always the killers fault, I'll recognize that, you get unlucky at times. Perhaps at the beginning while patrolling you didn't find anyone before it was too late. But those are so rare I think in over a thousand games, I've only had like 1 game that, that has happened. Anyways, I do think that they should have different gen times depending on the killer. Nurse = faster gen speeds, Wraith = less. Call it a stat difference. That would help with the time issue for the lesser tiered killers.
This is getting carried away from my original idea to show that surviors have strong stuff too xD. I agree that such matches are rare but the same can be said about mories. Everyones experience is different, I for example didn't see a mori in a while but that can change really fast.
Overall even if they can be still a little overtuned I don't find them too problematic. Maybe it's just bias or lack of matches facing them.
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@twistedmonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662821#Comment_662821
Then why do you think suiciding for the hatch will be fixed with the husk system? Surely it just means they are then left in game on the hook so them leaving at anytime won't have the same impact as the killer won't know and it hurts those who wish to camp. We don't know enough but it would be good to let a survivor know if it's a husk of real.
It's not abusing a feature it's doing what the devs allow you too. There is a major difference between that and dcing as dcing removes the chance for bbq stacks for just one example and allows the killer to freely go after the others while suiciding has legit benefits and strats.
Take a camping leatherface with Insidious or any other killer with 1 down or make your choice etc do you think it's fair for people to be punished for seeing someone running in a deciding to not let them have the same fate?
Just because a few people use it for reasons unintended does not mean they should ban for it as that removes the legit reasons also. This is probably why the husk system is coming so the players can combat certain playstyles the devs are trying to discourage.
Dcing has only one legit use which is real life, dcing is not a feature of the game to combat certain strats it's abuse of the system.
The only other time a player can be excused from dcing is due to them being caused by internet issues or bugs (not intentional) and why a time out system is better rather than banning imo as it gives time to try and sort anything out at your end.
Dedicated servers should help but they will not be perfect even for dcing.
Sorry my mistake, I've meant DCing for the hatch. Suiciding for the hatch can already be prevented by not hooking said survivor.
Disadvantages of suiciding farr outweigh the benefits. I wouldn't be making this thread if I didn't get constant streak of baby players ragequitting via hook suicide. I find this way of leaving the game problematic and in need of fixing.
And if they do suicide againt that LF they give him exactly what he wants. Free instant kill so that he can go hunt another poor soul and he'll keep on doing it since he will think that "it works". What needs to happen in that situation is that nobody comes for the poor souls while he heroicly keeps the beast at bay and allows them to do gens. If they run into him they'll learn the hard way what the right call was.
Even in killer games it hardly ever matters if survivor suicides to give another one hatch. But whenever I play survivor I matter really a lot if the first person decides to suicide since they got downed early and they don't want to risk DCing so they suicide to they can "DC legitimately".
And loopholing this DC feature is what I'm trying to argue about here.
I wish time out system was implemented. It would be at least something but no luck here yet. I hope that dedicated servers will help with DC issue but mark my word if they do, surviors who abused DC feature before will only switch to instant suiciding which is almost the same but without punishments.
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@BloodyNights said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662964#Comment_662964
Ehh I mean it's possible for both sides to end the game in less than 8-10 minutes. Had games were a Hillbilly just wrecked 3 people in less than 2 minutes in. He just happened to chainsaw right on top of someone at the start, chainsawed the other right after. Hooked them both, and then the third got chainsawed when they went for the save and I was the last one left, got spotted and it was GG
As killer I've also ended matches within like 5 minutes. I watch Monto and he somewhat frequently ends matches in less than 5 minutes especially with basement builds.
It happens for both sides. Gen Rushed, or just happened to catch survivors in bad spots. Majority of games don't go like that for either side though. There is a middle ground, and that's where I believe the game currently is.
If you are really that afraid of SWF, dodge lobbies that are obviously SWF. There is no punishment for doing it.
Ofc but that takes incredible amount of mistakes from surviors. Killer can still play decently well and still get genrushed if he's not part of the meta. Making games last longer for both sides only makes them more enjoyable. Mori can be a problem yes but there are other problems more major imao.
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@antgnstea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662749#Comment_662749
Did I say everyone should DC or something? No. Also I did not say you should dc or suicide on hook every single game. You can not categorize these things by simple putting them in white or black, That's why they have options to end these stages quickly. It is player's choice. Also that's why they have and will have a limit for disconnects. I come across many sandbagger teammates on daily bases. They ruin your game by blocking you, hook farming you, bringing killer to you, etc. Personally I wish those players would just dc and leave the game. But if they don't I might. Or at least I could suicide on hook and move to another game.Also sometimes lags in a game become unbearable so they might wanna leave the game.
I am not encouraging dc, I am just saying you can't enforce a game on someone by threatening to punish them. If they wanna leave they leave. What I would like to see from developers would be a new ranking and blood point system including matches like these. Because the real frustration comes from not the dc players, but cause you pay the price for their actions.
Yes you can't enforce the game on someone who doesn't want to play it. But you can prevent them from leaving early since they want to ragequit. If they had to chose between sitting on the hook for 2 minutes or DCing, they can ragequit and DC like before. If they do it far too often they get punished. But if they go on hook and suicide they face no punishment for almost the same thing.
If they at least were haning on the hook for those 2 min they can give their teammates important time to do gens. I just want ragequitting people to be treated as the should be, with punishemnt for their childish behaviour.
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@BloodyNights said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662911#Comment_662911
So you're saying that one survivor is chasing me, chasing someone else, and is waiting to bust out the insta heal. Like a survivor who makes a ton of noise that you can hear with a proper headset trying to come for a flash light save. While two others are always on gens during this little tussle, between two friends who want me to smack both of them and get rid of their insta heals super early. This is also not considering what killer I might be, and if I have the ability to insta down, or not.
This is a pretty crazy hypothetical for sure. I mean I guess it could happen. Will it? 99.9% chance says no it won't but that 0.1% maybe less, sure it could. I still have a way to combat it by playing smart and using my ears for when the person goes for the insta heal, especially knowing all of them have one.
I'll still trade you, you can have all rarities of insta heals, and all purple and pink keys. For the Ebony Mori's to be gone from the game. They are not fun for me as killer, and not fun for me to go against as survivor. It's usually a slaughter fest as survivor, and a ridiculously easy game as killer.
That example was one of many that can be done about powefull surff survivors could potentially use. I think that strong toolboxes are by far the worst you can face.
I'll make you a better deal. Let's change survivors main objective in a way that it can't be done sooner then at least 8-10 minutes or add second objective to achieve this goal. If we'll ever get any feature to make games last longer I don't really care about any item or offering killer or survivors have. Actually I love all of them, they make matches more diverse which is what I enjoy.
What I don't enjoy are matches that can last 6 min and less. Then we can rework mories to work for example for only death hook.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662883#Comment_662883
"Obliged"
What kinda entitled nonsense? I ain't obliged to do a goddarn thing for anyone in a video game.
Actually you are. You have to play by the rules or you'll get punished. Participating in normal gameplay is part of the rules. Problem is that current rules don't push enough emphasis on the part of suiciding being treated more like DCing or getting a rework that prevent the current abuse of that mechanic.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662873#Comment_662873
You just described a situation where there is a 4-man SWF team so coordinated that one of them is always in the right place when the killer goes down, 2 people are always on gens, and then entire team dumps their insta-heals into one person to troll the killer..... yeah you're right. That has never and probably will never happen XD
Nice hypothetical though
And you're saying that moris are instant win which is not true. You can still get looped for 5 gens mori or not. You can not find the person you want to mori until you've one hooked everyone and then all gens can be already done. People alway claim how broken mories are but never take into consideration how inconsistent they can be.
Mori only makes matches more tense since survivor's death proces is halved but that doesn't take into consideration so many variables that actually decide the result of the match.
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@BloodyNights said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662891#Comment_662891
In that case, those survivors are not doing gens, and I don't really care now do I? Since one is down, and the other just lost their insta heal med kit from the swing, and have to pick it back up, which I recover first from btw. So that means it took 3 survivors on coms, all not on gens with an ultra rare add-on, to stop me from taking down their friend. No wonder I've never not gotten at least a 3k with an Ebony Mori.
Did you even read what I wrote ? I said that only 1 survior is following and other 2 are doing gens until you go down and then they switch. Meaing that your FD only forces the current first instahealer to go pick up his friends instaheal so that other don't have to waste time switching so you helped the to be more efficient.
You won't get to pick up anyone until all instaheals were used so before you get your first hook you need to go through 10 health states and almost all pallets on the map while at least 2 survivors are constantly working on gens. Yes that is very unlikely but still possible if survivors play their part perfectly.
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@Crazewtboy said:
Nope. Suicide for hatch still exists. Plus, you shouldn't force people to stay in a match that they don't want to be in. As someone who plays this game to just chill out, I don't wanna play against Captain Von Sweatsalot late at night. So I kill myself on the hook and move on to the next game.
Aaaaand you'll possibly ruin the game for 4 other people. But as long as you're having fun it's ok right. I wonder how you feel about your teammates that DC instantly when they get downed each match you start 3 times in a row.
You probaly really like them since you share same philosophy that they were not having fun and so they left you and other teammates behind. So much fun really.
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@BloodyNights said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662873#Comment_662873
I'd trade all of those insta heals for an ebony mori's to be gone, and as a killer I'll take them SWF's with insta heal med kits. If I'm gonna be a toxic killer with an Ebony Mori vs a SWF group who all brought insta heal Med kits into the match, might as well bring Franklin's while I'm at it. And that's only if they can do the heal before I pull the Mori off. Especially with me smacking it out of their hands with each hit they take.
You know there is a cooldown before any action after you hit a survivor ? During that time any other survivor with red instaheal can come around and fully heal them without giving a damm about your Franklin's demise. In situation I described you'll get to use your mori only on that 11th down you know, since each time before that survivors have time to fully heal the downed person with the insta heal.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I usually only kill myself when I really have no chance to get unhooked. Or to give the Hatch.
But the thing is, suiciding on Hook is part of the game. You have the Option to attempt Unhooks. And you have the Option to not press Space to struggle. This is all Part of the game and intendend. DCing on the other Hand is not intended, the "Leave Match"-Button only exists because games need something like this as an option (every game has it).
I mean, Dedicated Servers will solve nothing with DCs. People will still DC and even if they dont DC, they kill themselves on their first Hook. And I fear there is nothing to be done about it, but it should not count as a DC. I would not like to get punished for giving the other Survivor the Hatch.
Actually there is something that can be done about it. If not the self unhook stage, we can at least rework the struggle phase so that you can't let go. That way you'll at least give your teammates that 1 minute you're obliged to give them if you decide to ragequit suicide.
Letting go because of the hatch work only because killer allows it to work, so that not real argument.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662843#Comment_662843
Woah now, let's not go crazy. There is absolutely no balance to an Ebony Mori. After getting hooked ONCE, the next time you get found, you're basically dead. No amount of insta-heals, keys, or BNPs will ever be equal to that
Are you sure about that ? What if you play in SWF with 4 red instaheals and each time you get downed 1 of your buddies runs to you and fully heals you. If killer really wants to kill only you then he has to go through 11 health states before he can kill you with a mori while there can always be at least 2 survivors working on gens whole that time.
Now you'll say how that never happens and yes you are right that doesn't really happen but that doesn't mean it can't happen. So no there is something more broken then mories and it's extremely coordinated SWF of goo players, playing with red instaheals and not making mistakes.
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You're new so it's understandable that you don't like them but consider this. Can you balance these offering without balancing what other side has also ?
Survivors haev eaqully powerful stuff if used correctly like keys, instaheals, strong toolboxes. If killer with Ebony memento mori faces really good survivors each having one of these thing he will still have really hard time and can just as easily lose and not kill anyone. Especially when they are Survivoe with friends group.
Also if you nerf every powerfull thing in DBD then there will be nothing left and you'll have boring same match each game.
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@RakimSockem said:
Yeah... no. If I don't feel like being in a match and that's my only out besides disconnecting, I'm gonna struggle on my first hook and let go. Some games aren't worth struggling for 4000 points
You could try to survive ? maybe. That's the point of playing survivor. I've once with luck survived even 3 DCs right at the start with 5 gens when the hatch would only spawn after 2 gens done since I played that match really well and was extremely lucky.
People just give up too easily. I wonder why do they even play game like DBD if they don't want to even try.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662808#Comment_662808
A lot of survivors wouldn't just leave a teammate just die on the hook if the killer isn't camping. They would at least attempt a save. And in that case it's possible they get seen.
I haven't seen too many suicides - at least no where near as bad as DCs. If suicides skyrocket once DC bans are in place we can re-evaluate but until then I don't feel it's necessary.
Ofc they wouldn't but some very smart survivors think that if nobody is going for them on their first hook instantly then their teammates are evil and are "letting me to die", so they suicide. Sometimes in solo play you just want to finish the gen and you don't know what other 2 survivors are doing and if by chance they also do gens and nobody goes for the save, hooked person assumes this and suicide.
Well not like this thread will make any real impact on the issue. I've just had so many of them today that I felt like I at least need to make a thread about it since imao it's a serious issue that everyone overlooks. I hope that servers will lessen the amount of people like this so that I can enjoy solo play at least a little bit without constant suiciders and DCers every 3 matches.
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@twistedmonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662760#Comment_662760
Then there is no issue and no need for this thread if the husk system sorts it all put since the player still need to be hooked twice.
What's the point in punishing people when an system is coming to make it less impactful?
The leave button is there for real life issues and why it takes many dc's to be banned this has been explained numerous times. It's the abuse of it that is the issue not it's function.
An in game mechanic is entirely different and a choice they gave. Much like the leave button but it was being abused so the fact they have banned for a long time for abusing that tells you all you need to know about how they see a difference between dcing and suiciding.
We don't know how the husk system will be implemeted and how easily it can be abused from killer's side so this is still legitimate problem. I higly doubt they will created the husk that is able to stay alive during the struggle phase.
Depends on how well the system will handle it. Right now suicing is legit way to DC every match without ever getting any kind of real penalty. I find that to be a problem.
I fully know why it's there. What I don't know is why abusing that system is bannable yet doing the same with 10s delay via "game mechanic" is not.
Problem is that only real difference are those 10 seconds it takes to suicide. Maybe you don't encounter suiciders as much as I do but it's really not good experience and it happens far more then it should. Devs want to promote healthy gameplay and suiciding is definitively not healthy gameplay. Especially since surivors do it from spite and not because of real life problems.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662778#Comment_662778
Or you're on the hook and the last survivor is being chased - I suicide to give them a chance at the hatch. As much as it's annoying early on it has gameplay in endgame.
I get what you're saying but consider this. Your sacrafice is great and all but killer can easily prevent this by not hooking you and finding the last survivor or by already knowing where the hatch is or by moving very close to the said survivors so when they both reach the hatch killer's animation is faster so they win. Also when you get hooked and last survivors gets found earlier before you die then they are really dumb and should be ashamed of themself since they could have hidden anywhere.
Even if there are some good reasons why the way it is now should stay, the negatives by far outweigh the positives since your situation is far rarer then some dumb teammate suiciding.
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@MonsterInMyMind said:
These threads🤦
Yes lets punish someone for a mechanic in the game hey while we are at it camping should be ban worthy literally the type of vibes i get from your thread.
Bodyblocking other survivors either by killer or surviors is also a mechanic in DBD yet it's bannable or DCing every match you play is also bannable. Griefing (sandbaging, AFKing) is also bannable if abused far too much.
All I want is fair match where my teammates have at least decency to give me those 2 minutes they are supposed to at least hang on the hook. That way killer will at least no be 100% certain that they already left and they have 1 less survivor to worry about. Survivors just far too often suicide for stupid reasons or because they are salty.
Either way suiciding and DCing impact the game both in extremely negative way and I don't understand why one is bannable when the other way is considered legit when olny real difference is that suiciding takes 10 seconds longer.
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@RepliCant said:
No its apart of the game as it should be and If I remember correctly they said they do not plan of getting rid of the struggle concept.
As for the mechanics of the button mashing being changed or having the option to be has never really been something they've been keen on giving us.
It beiing part of the game is not important. What is important is how it affects fairness of the match. I really don't know why would anyone who wants fair match support the idea of suiciding on the hook. Hook are designed to give other survivors at least 2 minutes of time where killer is uncertain if someone is going for the rescue or not and some random survivor just suiciding tottaly breaks the balance of this concept.
Only real reason to suicide is because you're salty about something. Either you face viable killer, you go downed too early or your teammates don't rush to the hook to save you. All of there reasons are stupid and with how consistent the hook suiciding every few matches is I doubt that it should stay the way it is now.
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@venom12784 said:
So I a scenario where I would suicide. I'm playing solo survivor. I get hooked. The Meg on my team immediately runs up and unhooks before the killer walks away. She is obviously farming me I now go into struggle. She does it again. At least with the way things are now the second hook I can kill myself so she can't farm me a second time. Also when you dc your denying the killer all the point of the kill. When you suicide the killer gets all the points .
Then she's ruining her alturism emblem and she robs herself of a lot of points from safe unhook. Also you can use descisive strike and unbreakable to couner this so there actually was something you could have done to avoid this besides not getting found and hooked first.
Also also if you think you've gotten some amazing self proclaimed victory by DCing and denying killer the points then you're wrong. I have never seen in my 1800 hours a killer would be mad for survivor DCing after the DC bonus points for killers were added. Only thing you're giving them is a good feeling that they got under your skin.
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@twistedmonkey said:
For a few reasons.
They can't determine why someone stopped struggling and lag can be a major factor so to punish would not make any sense.
Suiciding to give the hatch is fine so where would the line be.
It's a game mechanic and they gave players this choice so to remove that choice wouldn't sense.
It's not abusing any feature it's a game mechanic which allows you to let go and leave the match.
Unless the devs change the mechanic it's no where near the same as dcing as the devs themselves set this up so players can decide if they want to stay or not.
- As I hinted we can rework stuggle phase so it doesn't require pressing anaything.
- Suiciding for hatch will be resolved by the husk system with dedicated server so that won't be a problem soon, if it actually happens. (but good idea nevertheless)
- They also gave us buttom to DC from the match but if you do it far to much it's punishable and since suiciding on hook is very simmiliar and ruins the game it the same way, it should be either reworked or treated the same.
- And I think this "mechanic" is incredibly dumb and exists far longer then it should. It still promotes bad behaviour and screws over your teammates and even the killer if they want fair match. It needs rework so that players can't abuse it like they do now.
- Devs also stated that infinites required skill back in the day. It actually is pretty much the same as DCing. Designed time for dying is 2 minutes you are obliged to give at least this amount of time to your teammates and act as bait/diversion. It needs reworking so you can't ruin other's matches and get away with it so easily.
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@antgnstea said:
If people wanna ruin your game they will one way or another. And you shouldn't be forced to play in a game where you don't wanna play for some reason. You can't make good teammates by threatening them by punishments.
From what you're saying you sound to me like you actually encourage disconecting.
"You shouldn't be forced to play in a game where you don't wanna play for some reason"
Like whenever you get downed in first minute or when you face viable killer or when your teammate does gens and doesn't stupidly rush hook. Yeah let's not punish ragequitting people who "don't want to play beacuse of this and that ". If you hate something in DBD so much that you litterally have to DC against it every time then you shouldn't be playing in the first place.
You really can't make good teammates by threatening them by punishment but you can lessen the amount of bad teammates that do these things until you have healthier playerbase. And no, people can't ruin your game whenever they want since there are rules and those rules should include suiciding or the hook stages need to be rework so it's no longer possible.
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@justarandy said:
Let's change the struggle mechanic first before punishing people for suiciding because they have health issues and can not press spacebar repetitively like an ape, or people who have room mates sleeping and don't want to annoy them to much with pressing spacebar like a machine-gun, or people who bought an expensive keyboard and don't want to break it faster in the long term run... OR People who just simply don't want to be a like an ape.
First fix that mechanic. After that we can discuss that again.
Tbh I didn't specifically say so but I hinted that I want the hook stages to be reworked. That includes the stupid pressing spacebar part.
Also I wonder how do you make it so that you can't ######### but you still have to press spacebar ? You sound like you think that if we made it impossible to ######### you would still somehow be forced to press spacebar.
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@[Deleted User] said:
So they will just AFK and die anyway.
That's fine since AFKing is actually in the punisable behaviours if I remeber correctly. Problem right now is that they can just kill themselfs and get away with it without any punishment.
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That doesn't even matter. Some problems just have to be solved no matter what (like old DS, MoM or machine gun build, old nurse). You can say that if you just play better they could have stayed the way they were since you've made mistakes and that's why you lost to them. Problems like that still exist.
Also every game is extremely different just based on RNG of what map you get and what layouts it has. If you get favorable map and it's layout for your killer/build, your chances of winning skyrocket.
Overall DBD right now isn't in a bad state but we still need fresh changes to mix it up and while we're at it, we might solve current problems by them.