KayTwoAyy
KayTwoAyy
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3134590#Comment_3134590
I wasn't much into sports, especially because of my knee problems, but regardless I don't remember that using a certain formation in football was considered toxic, nor hitting the ball a certain way in baseball. It's only when you spike the football or shout slurs at the other team.
In recreational sports, when a team has established a significant lead over their opponent, they will substitute their top players for their benchwarmers.
In competitive sports, a mercy rule is instituted for similar situations, so as not to humiliate the opponent.
In both scenarios, the practice is considered a show of good sportsmanship.
Whether it is to be considered poor sportsmanship to continue beating your opponent is neither here nor there. The fact of the matter is that showing mercy, and allowing inexperienced players an opportunity for growth and development, are behaviors of a good sport.
The gaming community as a whole (not just in DBD) should be pushing to practice better sportsmanship.
The lack of accountability in our anonymous online environments, paired with the attention-seeking attitude of the younger generation has facilitated too much toxicity for far too long. If we are going to continue coexisting in this virtual environment, we should be asking more of our peers, and hold eachother to higher standards.
It is not virtue signaling to want to live in a better world.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3134511#Comment_3134511
Those are made-up rules and virtue signaling. The sportsmanship part comes from saying GG, or at least not being toxic like tbagging or head nodding when you're winning. You don't lose sportsmanship for playing in a way that you have to in order to win.
Tell me you've never played a sport IRL without telling me you've never played a sport IRL
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3131170#Comment_3131170
Killers camp and tunnel when it's not at 5 gens. What makes it extra offensive when it is at 5 gens?
It is poor sportsmanship to camp and tunnel very early in the game.
And, before you or anyone else suggest I'm one-sided in my opinions about this game...
It is poor sportsmanship to continue cranking gens when the killer has zero downs with 2 gens left.
In either case, I stand on the side of "recognize when you've establish adequate pressure, and take your foot off the pedal so everyone can play the game."
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@lemonsway said:
SoloQ does not need a buff, SWFs will benefit from SoloQ improvements just like Nurse benefitted from the general killer buffs. You always end up buffing the strongest end of the spectrum...unless you touch the strongest aspect of the spectrum aswell.
You don't give BAD players more tools, you teach them how to play. Thana just got nerfed yet Survivors still want to waste time healing and do random ######### instead of doing gens which means the nerf to Thana is non existant because people just refuse to do gens... IT's amazing how manny people will t-bag at you to signal for a heal instead of getting on the gen and shave off seconds from it's completion...
The problem about survivor gameplay is BAD PLAYERS. People refuse to learn and to bring information perks, instead all they want is attention from the killer. They bring killer to teammates, they stay around whenever a Doctor has Static Blast ready and give their position away meaning Doctor won't get away from the hook, they step on Torment on purpose when PH wants to camp someone, they stay in Myers's line of sight and then go towards someone else and Myers pop a Tier 3 and insta downs or TB Piece Mori's them....
BAD players are killing each other more so than killers are opressive.
It's the same ######### for killers aswell, Killers are all using Pain Res, Deadlock, DMS, those Perks would be fine before the update since killers didn't get enough of an opportunity to apply pressure BUT DH IS GONE, Endurance Meta never happened, gens got increased time, survivors make it less far away when hit and killers break things faster and recover faster from successful hits. You have POWER now!
Yet so manny killers are still using Pain Res, DMS, Deadlock. WE got what we needed, we got a fairer game in it's most basic aspects, yet those perks are still very unreasonably strong.
Those Perks are as they are for three reasons, number one, the most important, to make people buy the killers that those perks belong to, it's a business and BHVR needs money, number two is to help BAD killer players and third they still exists because there's another layer of bad game design called Maps. Sometimes on some maps you will definetly need these Perks. The only issue is whenever you don't need them you're still using them...
Want to fix it? Improve Maps, remove RNG from Maps, this way everyone on both sides can study Maps and learn efficient routes, which at least in theory will help everyone become better at the game, prediction game improves, thus you're less realiable on busted Perks.
In practice? People will abuse their knowledge and double down on Slowdown just because...But then you can change the Perks and make them not busted.
And if a killer is overperforming because of their kit and not the skill of the people playing then adjust the killer kit...
I love how this started as SURVIVORS ARE BAD, migrated to KILLERS ARE BAD, and then ended with MAP DESIGN IS BAD! 🤣
I've been on the "get good" train for a long time, and all I can offer to your comment is the fact that this will always be a problem.
Dead By Daylight is far and away the easiest online PvP game I have ever played, but that doesn't change the fact that most people don't want to use their brain when they play video games.
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I recently encountered the same cheater twice in one night.
He broke every totem at the start of the match, but did everything else normally. It was like the dude just had a vendetta against hex perks and wanted to play the game without them.
These are the kind of hackers I am most worried about, because they're capable of cheating without creating tangible evidence for people to submit in a report. While the hostage-taking is a crisis now, these silent hackers will always be quietly disrupting the flow of play without anyone ever knowing.
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Happy Birthday OP!
Here is a gift I think you might like...
%PDF-1.5 % 2588 0 obj > endobj xref 2588 9 0000000023 00000 n 0000000473 00000 n 0000001865 00000 n 0000002074 00000 n 0000002163 00000 n 0000002715 00000 n 0000003587 00000 n 0000011053 00000 n 0000000641 00000 n trailer ]/Root 2589 0 R/Info 2587 0 R/Size 2597/Prev 12065435>> startxref 0 %%EOF 2589 0 obj >/Pages 2521 0 R>> endobj 2596 0 obj > stream xiPe_%A2+pr$}~w]dWTgJust jump straight to Book II (PDF Page 58), it picks up at the perfect spot--Glaucon basically be like "yo Socrates, my man, we had a pretty good talk about virtue back in Book I, but like... we're not really convinced, so imma need you lay it on thick my man, you feel?" Then Socrates be like, "right right, I gotchu homie, lets get into it. I'mma tell you why it is better to be just than unjust."
...and basically, just read from there and you'll find all the answers you're looking for.
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On top of it all...
I can't even reach 20k BP in my games anymore because every killer is playing like their lives depend on a 4k.
Half of all my games are 15-16k bp, and the unfortunate few times I'm first chase its a whopping 5-9k bp for me!
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I really want them to reintroduce Hawkins Lab without making any announcements.
I just want to load up a game one day, thinking its going to be an average DBD experience and then find myself spawning right in the middle of Hawkins Lab.
I'd be so freaking happy, I miss that map so much.
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Nah mate, didn't you get the memo?
Camping & Tunneling are dead--you have a built in 5 second BT now.
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Pretty neat idea.
Just to bounce off this...
I think it would be super cool if they managed to keep a design like this as 4 seperate characters, with a passing-of-the-baton type power.
Say for example, you are Frank and you want to change to Susie, you press the ability button to switch to Susie. Susie is immediately spawned in within X meters of you, in a position the game recognizes no survivors to have LOS on. Susie would then run up beside you (Frank), and relieve Frank of duty, and his model would then despawn somewhere else out of LOS of all the survivors.
From the Killer POV, maybe it just looks like you blink. From the Survivor POV it is this whole dramatic entry and exit of another person.
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I'm more concerned with the fact that their most effective solution to camping to-date is locked behind a paywall, rather than the fact that multiple meta perks are held within paid DLC.
The former feels like a cheap tactic to take my money, while the latter is simply a byproduct of an ever expanding multiplayer game
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Hag.
She doesn't chase, and when she hooks someone she'll spend the next minute placing all of her traps around the hook.
My disdain for her is only made worse by the fact that she pub stomps solo queue, and there is absolutely nothing I can do to stop it from happening.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/340974/why-is-tunneling-considered-bad-form
Tunneling, to my mind, refers to basically going for one person the second they are unhooked, and focusing them out.
It's not finding that person by accident, having them run into you, hooking them after you hook someone else.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3131138#Comment_3131138
Here's the issue.
You log onto Trickster. They bring an Eyrie offering, fat toolboxes with 4x BNP, PTS and you get unlucky on spawns. They split up, with 2 to a gen.
By the time you reach them, even if you start moving towards the correct gen immediately, it's easy to lose both gens.
Those are the games where, yeah - I'm not going to play nice. Because you know what you did.
The issue is that some people will tunnel on a stacked Nurse, on Midwich, on the first down.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3131119#Comment_3131119
Survivor BP does need a buff...sort of. I've suggested that time spent on a hook works the same as a chase, where you get credit for stuff that is done while you are occupied.
That said - survivors can quite reliably get completely free addons via chests and chest addons. I know I'll sometimes run PI for this exact reason, I'll almost always find at least 1 useful item in every match, and if I escape 1 in 2 matches, I can build a decent little collection as I go.
Killers don't have that luxury. Which is something to also consider.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3131135#Comment_3131135
Unless the killer is literally tunneling you off the hook (see: camping), your team should be coordinating to bodyblock, interfere and save.
The only time I'll get sub 5k is when I get hard camped. And yes, camping needs a bit of a fix (hopefully Reassurance will help to discourage it).
The scenario you described is a design flaw, and I'd advise killers with a bone to pick against such strats spend their time and effort fighting for change with BHVR, rather then settling their score against random survivors in future games.
...because i'm tired of getting roflstomped as a solo surv because killers are camping and tunneling first hook at 5 gens.
4 games today this happened, and in all 4 the surv on first hook had kindred. The info provided wasn't enough to help anyone escape in those 4 games.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3130560#Comment_3130560
Make tunneling out generators less rewarding. If survivors don't tunnel gens then killers might not tunnel survivors.
Patrol gens, instead of tunnel survivors, and your survivors wont tunnel gens.
If your complaint is that too many survivors "tunnel gens," then you're complaining about a problem that you have created yourself.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3130641#Comment_3130641
Have any of you even seen a woman without makeup, or is it just TikTok and anime?Many haven't, I think. I got a good laugh out of a recent example where some basement dweller was aghast that Aloy (from Horizon) had facial fuzz visible in 4K and was like "wHy duZ sHE haVe a BEARD?!"
Sadly I don't sort of ignorance/unrealistic expectation is uncommon. We have a whole segment of the population who think that a woman's primary purpose is to look a certain way, for the enjoyment of others.
The gaming community is predominantly developing young adults who have been taught that comedy is a shield from which you can hide behind to make extremely insensitive comments.
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I played a ton of Haddie, until I ran out of all my puddings. Now I'm back to my A 1 Day 1 Yui Kimura--especially following the release of her Mikasa AOT cosmetic. You won't catch me playing any other survivor, now that they've implemented the new progression system and I've dropped $$$ on a Yui cosmetic.
I think Haddie looks badass, tho.
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I really wish the tome challenges were more perk-value achievements than scavenger hunts, because they absolutely encourage players to throw the game right now.
BHVR has the opportunity to manufacture perk diversity by making challenges like "loot a chest while running Plunderer's & Ace in the Hole and escape through the exit gates with a plundered item X times," instead of "loot 3 chests in a single trial."
Then in the same tome give the killers a challenge like "use Franklin's Demise to prevent a survivor from leaving the trial with an item in hand X times."
Bam! Now you've created a mini-game, without detracting either side from prioritizing the objective.
I would love to see more tome challenges that shake up everyone's perk loadout. It is healthy for the game, and it would be helpful for the devs to understand where perks over/under perform
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To echo what others have said...
The problem is the people who play Nemesis.
I can always count on a Nemesis to camp and tunnel the first survivor.
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No one will ever run this perk.
Solidarity is better than this perk, and no one ever runs Solidarity.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3128975#Comment_3128975
They very well could play in comp leagues... you just have to put a team together around you and anyone can be a comp player!
But if they honestly think that double recharge "makes no difference" then they are either trolling you or don't understand the killer they supposedly main.
its just gaslighting 101.
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@Pulsar said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5QLQJ8HH9CDS/nurse-283-29.png
Nurse took us to Coal Tower.
Tunneled a Nea out at 5 gens left.
Claims to be on a comp team. Very cool.
I just faced a self-proclaimed comp killer today, who said they main Dredge.
They were playing Dredge, tunneled me the entire game, and only just managed to 2k with the help of NOED.
I think anyone could be a comp killer.
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What would y'alls thoughts be if they reversed the stacking of Thana?
Gen speeds debuff by 20% when all survivors are at full health.
For each injured or dying survivor, the gen speed debuff is reduced by 5%
Essentially, the perk would be designed to help provide pressure to killers severely lacking it, and then deactivate when the killer already has immense pressure. This would in turn make it weak on Plague, but I've never understood why a killer who has everyone injured needs EVEN MORE pressure. Everyone being 1 health state away from death should be pressure enough, no?
This could stack really well with Sloppy, so that survivors can't 99% heal themselves as they crank gens.
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She has always been my least favorite killer to face as a solo survivor.
I could spend the first 4 gens of the game harassing every trap she places, but as soon as she downs one survivor the game ends.
If I had to guess, I probably have under a 5% escape rate against hag.
Reassurance will do wonders against her, for solo queue.
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@Kaitsja said:
I don't see reassurance becoming a meta perk, since it still doesn't solve the core issue that being camped isn't fun and actively prevents one person from participating in normal gameplay.
Non-participation is part of survivor gameplay, but is clearly intended to be temporary, hence why hook timers are quite generous and why face-camping was changed.
I can't imagine being the poor survivor downed at 5 gens by a camping basement insidious monstrous shrine bubba who's then forced to just hang there on the hook for the entire game because nobody's going to attempt the rescue and instead just use reassurance every 30 seconds.
Survivors on the hook will enjoy this "stick it to the man" ability in the beginning, but I agree with you.
After a while, being condemned to hook limbo for entire games will feel just as bad (if not worse) than being camped and tunneled out of the game. At least dying early has the benefit of immediately finding a new game where your experience could be better.
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To be honest, it is a tad disheartening to see a "fix to camping" released alongside franchise DLC in an update set to release immediately after a health patch that was intended to "fix camping."
Either BHVR knew their mid-chapter patch was not a solution, and tried to promote it as one...
or BHVR believed they would be able to fix camping with the mid-chapter patch, and designed a perk no survivor would need then had the audacity to charge money for it.
Regardless, we're back to square one in the fight against camping & tunneling--relying on paid DLC perks to ensure our game isn't miserable.
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@bm33 said:
Do you need to remain within 8 meters after activating or can you activate then go work on a gen? If you have to stay within 8 meters that's guaranteed 30 seconds of 2 survivors off gens.
You do not need to stay near the survivor. I have been pairing it with Breakout, Dead Hard & Saboteur, and I activate Reassurance the moment the survivor is hooked (whenever I fail to help them wiggle off) then take the killer on a chase elsewhere.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
If? This perk is a dead lock to become meta.
If it stays as is, I would expect so.
Don't want to assume too much, however, because I do think it has heavy griefing potential.
This perk is one patch away from "camping is dead" to "lol, people actually use Reassurance?"
I don't actually see many people using it in the PTB
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I've played VHS twice, and I didn't enjoy it.
...but I wouldn't write it out just yet.
If the devs of VHS nurse their game, it can easily grow into something far more popular.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3125380#Comment_3125380
Nope, I've been playing on the PTB for a while and haven't experienced any lag (I've played on most maps). I play on ultra as well.
I assume you experienced rubber-banding before it was patched in 6.1?
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Like once a game, my entire computer starts chugging for a solid 3 seconds.
The game freezes and then suddenly I'm teleported to wherever I was originally heading.
Anyone else been experiencing this in the PTB?
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3124411#Comment_3124411
Isn't that just gaming? Sometimes you do better than average and sometimes you do worse?
The nuance that I'm talking about is not present in DBD.
At its core, high level DBD is just a bunch of human computers executing a series of 'if-then' command sequences.
Have you ever seen the movie War Games?
Balancing DBD (in its current state) around the highest levels of play would turn it into tic-tac-toe. Every game would end in a draw at the highest levels, because there is simply not enough mechanical skill involved for players to actually influence the outcome of their game.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3123484#Comment_3123484
"Games other than DBD provide players with an opportunity to perform above and below their skill-level over the course of a match, because of the mechanical skill involved."
What does that even mean?
In any shooting game, a person's accuracy will constantly fluctuate above and below their average accuracy.
For example, a player who averages 40% accuracy may end their first game of the day shooting 20% accuracy, while their fifth game of the day might see them shooting 70% accuracy.
This in turn enables players to see variable success even when competing at their proper skill level.
---
In the context of our conversation, it is relevant because the human inability to constantly perform at peak physicality has bigger implications with respect to game balance.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3123386#Comment_3123386
Players who are weak are generally not able to do much vs. players who are strong in games overall anyway. As for the Killer vs. Survivor thing, that is mainly due to Survivors requiring better team coordination to win. Bad Survivors can sink a team.
Players who are weak are generally not able to do much vs. players who are strong in games overall
...but they can. Games other than DBD provide players with an opportunity to perform above and below their skill-level over the course of a match, because of the mechanical skill involved.
Anyway... i'm not sure how best to explain myself at the moment, so I'll drop the conversation for now. Perhaps I'll follow-up if I can find the right words to convey my thoughts
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3123288#Comment_3123288
It's both. My point is that the idea of "the gap between low skilled and high skilled players is huge" is just a thing across video games and not just a DBD thing, so the idea that DBD shouldn't be balanced around high skilled players because of that doesn't make sense to me because that's not how other games do it when in a similar position.
Right, so that is what I tried to explain with my response.
It largely boils down to the lack of mechanical skill in DBD. It creates a disparity in which players are either good or they are not, and a player who is not can't do much about that during the game. And by nature of the game a not skilled killer is at less of a disadvantage than a not skilled survivor.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3123210#Comment_3123210
It's not a "DbD vs. other competitive games" thing. That's just the nature of games in general. The gap between skilled players and non-skilled players will always be pretty wide if the game doesn't have anything that actively mitigates how much skill factors in. Players who aren't skilled will not be able to meaningfully do anything about it in most games if they are paired up vs players who actually are skilled.
Oh, I agree. I'm not sure if that is what you meant with your initial comment about disparity, as that is not how I read it--it sounded like you meant between tiers of players, not match-ups between individuals of varying skill.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3121342#Comment_3121342
- That's a weird way of saying "The people who claim nurse is too prevalent/easy to get good at" don't need to provide additional proof, but those who use the kill-rate statistics actually provided do.
- My examples make use of commonly understood norms, especially when considering competitive play. Your example erroneously assumes everyone plays Nurse once, and immediately loses and doesn't do anything with it again. We have; Dailies, people who enjoy Nurse casually, people who enjoy Nurse competitively - but don't sweat, people who only play Nurse, and people who only play her once. You've created an unrealistic scenario to support your point. Hell, some of those one game only Nurses will actually get a kill or two (Edit: Gasp, they may even win!) because they'll be playing on fresh Nurse MMR against potatoes.
So, no, Nurse isn't being piggybacked by the entire population playing and losing on her, allowing the 'good' nurses to run rampant. Good nurses are losing all the time, too. To good or better survivors.
That is a weird way of saying...
I initially typed up 2 paragraphs explaining why you can't make that comment. I find it insulting that you'd take the opportunity to make a snide remark, because I chose brevity over patronizing.
Your example erroneously assumes...
My example exists only to show you how infinitesimal 1,000 4k's are, with respect to a killer's global kill rate.
You don't need to come at me with an attitude, just because I can poke holes in your declarations.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3121074#Comment_3121074
Unless a game is so luck-driven that it doesn't matter, there's always going to be a big disparaty in what high-skill players are capable of and what low-skill players are capable of. Dead By Daylight is not unique at all in this regard. Many games opt to balance for the skilled player, not the less skilled players because game devs don't want the game to be too easily broken in half balance-wise by people who know what they're doing.
I don't hang around the RTS scene, so I can't speak on how games like Starcraft are balanced between Pubs and Comp, but I can say with certainty that Dead by Daylight's skill-gap disparity is very unique with respect to every popular competitive FPS and Moba on the market.
In competitive sports there are the 3 pillars of mastery:
- Mechanical Skill/Ability to Execute
- Game Sense/Strategy
- Coordination/Team Work
A player's overall skill level is derived from how proficient they are in each of these skills.
Players who lack in coordination or game sense can make up for their performance with great mechanical skill, and vice versa.
In DBD, the mechanical skill ceiling is so low that it has virtually no impact on the outcome of an average game. This means that a player with poor coordination and game sense cannot depend on their mechanical skill to pull enough weight. They either know how to play the game, or they don't.
This creates a scenario in which players plateau until they learn how to play the game, at which point they see dramatic gains in performance. Players in DBD don't improve inch-by-inch--they either improve in leaps and bounds, or they don't improve at all.
This creates a far greater skill-gap disparity than you'll find in other sports.
This wouldn't be problematic if DBD was a symmetrical game. The Killer being the defacto power role means that if the game is balanced around people who know how to play everything optimally, players who lack that knowledge will be unable to influence the outcome of their match until they learn how to play optimally.
In its current state, balancing DBD around "skilled play" means every game is the Killer's game to lose, and survivors can all but hope they stumble into the right strategy every time.
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For the record, I for the longest time have wanted the game to be balanced around skilled play. Even right now, I believe the game is incredibly survivor-sided. I'm constantly left dumbfounded by players inability to grasp basic concepts, like seriously... how hard is it to recognize that looping the killer back to, or around, a hooked survivor is a terrible idea? ffs.
Unless BHVR found a way to raise the skill ceiling in DBD, I don't believe it is in the best interest of the game to balance around the top players.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
The ones that cuck survivors. Lightborn, Iron Grasp and Bamboozle are my absolute favorites. The survivors in my lobbies are not having fun, bro. I literally run over those troll squads.
Between the Bubba profile pic, and your first sentence, I was really expecting to see Franklin's on your list 🤣
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Anything with the potential to reverse a snowball or clutch a tough situation is my favorite.
Whether that is using Breakout and Mettle of Man to help a survivor wiggle out, or pairing For the People with Dead Hard to pick your teammate up the moment they are downed.
Some perks just give passive buffs or abilities, but its the ones that require skilled play and the right opportunity that speak to me.
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@DoritoHead said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3121210#Comment_3121210
Can we stop with the “can we stop stopping others can we stop comments on can we stop with the can we stop” threads?
This feels like Brennan Lee Mulligan's bit on the Game Change where he acts out a Subway Announcement becoming self-aware
Brennan is too good at this.Watch a few full episodes of Game Changer here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuKg-WhduhknsLFxK4K5YDtGVJuCf51kY -
@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3121131#Comment_3121131
If her killrate is indeed still negative, neither the mastery nor the prevalence exists in the frequency that Nurse haters claim. That's the point.
Show where the statistics lie, instead of referring people to a book about statistics. If 1 God-Tier Nurse player exists, as a hypothetical, and he wins every damn game he plays, as Nurse haters claim, and he plays 1000 games, that means there is more than 1000 games where every Nurse lost in order to yield that negative kill rate.
Just how many games do you think new Nurse players are trying, losing, and still trying before giving up completely to make your scenario a reality?
We all know what the reality is when looking at this. Nurse isn't a monolith, just like every other killer, and her winrate exists on a bell curve where the grand majority of the Nurse players avg to 2k.
Neither the mastery nor the prevalence exists in the frequency that Nurse haters claim
We have not been presented the data to support this claim.
I know you just walked into this conversation, but I've already addressed how and why the statistics are misleading. The comment you've replied to even contains one possible theory about how Papi is misrepresenting the data.
If [a nurse 4k's] ... [in] 1,000 games, that means there is more than 1,000 games where every nurse lost in order to yield that negative kill rate.
Earlier this year, DBD boasted a record 50 million total players.
If all 50 million players played nurse at least once, and nurse's kill rate was 12.5% after those 50 million games, it would take just under 40 million 4k's to bring nurse's kill rate above 50%.
So yes, it is entirely possible that Nurse has accrued a massive kill rate deficit from unskilled players.
1,000 4k's would still leave the nurse with a 12.5% kill rate in this scenario.
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3121074#Comment_3121074
The upper echelon are the Nurses people have an issue with lmao
So nerfing Nurse is creating a double standard, as I said.
If her killrate doesn't prove it, how about her pickrate combined with her killrate? Nurse has one of the highest pickrates, but the lowest killrate. Why do you think that is?
Because either way your argument is proven wrong. Either Nurse is getting 2ks in the majority of games, or Nurse is losing the majority of games and top MMR Nurses bring her killrate up. In the first scenario, it proves that Nurse isn't an issue for the average player. In the second one, it proves that Nurse isn't an issue for the average player if MMR were working correctly. So which do you think it is?
Nurse has one of the highest pickrates, but the lowest killrate. Why do you think that is?
Because she comes free with the game, and is played most frequently by new players with little-to-no experience with her (or the game).
If Nurse's player count/play time graph looks like this, it explains why her killrate is so low despite her lethality. Her stats have been tanked by the fact that she is played most frequently by players who don't know how to use her kit.
You are assuming there are an equal number of good nurses as there are bad nurses, and that is simply not true. There are significantly more bad nurses than good (or even average) nurses.
This doesn't mean that an average nurse is bad, it means that the average nurse is bad.
There is a distinction (mastery v. prevalence), and that is why she needs to be nerfed.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117782#Comment_3117782
This seems contrary to how most games are balanced. That isn't to say that Average Joe should never be considered, but most games are balanced around what players at their peak are capable of, not people who are only capable of basic-moderate skill.
The issue right now is that there is such great disparity between what the average player can do, and what the upper echelon of players are capable of. You don't want to alienate any part of the playerbase when creating an update, but that is not always possible.
From a business standpoint, the end goal of each balance update is to retain players (and hopefully even bring in a new audience).
What will make most players happy? Answer: Balancing the game around most players.
If BHVR's business model put heavy importance on entering and establishing the competitive scene, then yes... they absolutely should balance around the best players. But seeing as this game is only competitive to those who wish to make it so, BHVR should continue to focus on balancing the game around its largest population of players.
@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3120896#Comment_3120896
Nurse's killrate literally proves it. The average Nurse is bad. So bad that they lose the majority of their games.
Her killrate doesn't prove it.
Go read How to Lie With Statistics, i'm sure you'll find it fascinating and informative. Maybe even a little eye-opening.
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3120148#Comment_3120148
Yup. So you want to balance around average survivors, who are bad. But not average Nurses, who are...also bad.
That's my issue here. You want to create a double standard in balancing, and that's not gonna work.
No, I disagree with your conclusion that the average nurse is bad.
The data you are relying on to reach that conclusion is misleading.
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You see this here? This is supposed to fix homelessness.
What does the above image have in common with your post?
They both don't address the root of the problem.
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3119008#Comment_3119008
And where do you stand? For the past 12 hours, you've been denying what you said even though I have proof you said it. I'm not even trying to prove a point anymore, you just don't know what you're talking about.
A summation of my comments in this thread so far:
- If nurse is balanced, then every other killer is under-powered
- Competitive DBD is a Joke
- DBD should be balanced around the average player
- It is not worth either of our time to engage in a dialogue, because we fundamentally disagree in our conclusions based on data released by the developers in the past
- The statistics with which you have formed your conclusions are misleading; a.k.a your conclusions are built upon a weak foundation
- The average survivor is bad--so what?--we need to balance around them
- You are putting words in my mouth
- You are jumping to conclusions
- Don't put words in people's mouth
This is everything I've said in this thread. I haven't denied saying any of these things.
In fact... I should have left after saying "it is not worth either of our time to engage in a dialogue," because you proved me right tenfold.
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3118813#Comment_3118813
Whis putting words in your mouth? You said these things, not me.
You've been having an argument with yourself for the past 12 hours.
You probably don't even know where I actually stand on this topic, because you're more concerned with trying to land hip mic-drop 'gotchas!' than engaging in a dialogue.
Talking to you is like pulling teeth.
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3118300#Comment_3118300
It definitely does sound like you want easy wins if you're balancing for bad survivors but good killers. I'm not even trying to be passive aggressive, it's just that you literally can't justify your argument with anything other than "I want easy wins". So it's either that, or you just don't know what you're talking about.
Just a word of advice...
Putting words in other people's mouth has never been an effective means of communication
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3118248#Comment_3118248
Over-simplifying? Let me go back a bit and quote what you said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3118110#Comment_3118110
"With that acknowledged, we know need to balance the game around trash survivors."
So did you mean that we should balance around trash survivors but good killers? If so the conversation is over because you've made it clear that you want easy wins.
"You don't acknowledge the possibility that the data the developers have provided is negatively skewed"
You mean like Nurse getting free kills every other game because at least one person tends to DC against her now? If anything, Nurse's killrate is RAISED unfairly.
If we balance around trash survivors, we have to balance around trash killers. So in other words, buff Nurse because trash killers can't play her. See what I mean? Your logic doesn't work.
you've made it clear that you want easy wins.
Why so presumptuous? Why so divisive?
I posted this in another thread recently--does it sound like I want easy wins?
I'm trying to talk to you about statistics and youre jumping to conclusions about how I play a video game.
Do you want to have a conversation, or would you prefer to continue being super passive aggressive?
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3118219#Comment_3118219
You said that most survivors are bad so we should balance around bad survivors. In that case we have to balance around bad killers.
You think I'm trolling because you don't understand why there are several huge issues with your logic.
No, you're over-simplifying because it fits your narrative.
You're misrepresenting the data that has been given to you, either to intentionally mislead me or because you don't know any better.
I am trying to explain to you that your argument is built on a weak foundation, because the data from which you've formed your opinions lacks sufficient context.