Johnny_XMan
Johnny_XMan
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@Labrac said:
Isn't Lullaby counter productive on Freddy? Survivors missing skill checks will be awake all the time.
The whole idea is that they will be missing so many skill checks, they will be forced to spread out and look for totems.
So while in theory they might be "awake" all the time, a missed skill check on a gen with increased regression penalty via Green/Blue Dress (the add on I opt to bring instead) is much more valuable for the goal I am going for, than a survivor who is awake. Because as I pointed out, you are not meant to patrol gens so much as you are to hook players. Meaning you'll spend more time chasing and wasting resources.
Alternatively if you don't want them to be able to wake up, you can bring Paint Brush and missing skill checks will not wake them up. It's literally up to you and how comfortable you feel dealing with awake survivors as Freddy. For me, I have no issue with a survivor being awake and wasting more of their resources, because again, it is just making sure that when they get to a point to where they might have found Lullaby, their resources will be wasted by then.
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Everyone's experience is going to be different, the reason you might think it is exxagerated is because it happens to multiple people. Yeah it might not be back-to-back, but on the broader spectrum it becomes more common than not.
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@StarLost said:
I'm a little confused why you'd run it on Freddy, yeah. But I'm really warming up to Plaything and include it on several killers.
My build is usually BBQ (the grind is real)+Plaything+Retribution+Discordance/LP/Surge depending on killer. My priority is always info.
I generally don't run other hexes (other than Ret) with it as it often gets cleansed because they are searching.
Lullaby...I struggle to really get working unless I'm playing Doctor and running Overcharge. It feels like it shouldn't be a hex, as the benefits it gives are sort of mediocre.
Basically the reason I run it on Freddy is because many survivors will choose to stay asleep so that they don't have to deal with the oblivious status. Because their choices are to look for the totem and waste time or stay asleep and deal with the dream effects.
More than anything I am using Plaything as a support to Lullaby. It confuses survivors because they do not know which totem is lullaby. Unless they are affected by Plaything and can see their own totem. One thing I have noticed playing killer is survivors OPT to cleanse anything that looks like a hex totem in the beginning because it is the more optimal thing to do. Plaything allows those regular totems to stay "camouflaged" until you start hooking people and those totems now become important to survivors.
All in all, this build is really meant to force survivors to look for totems. Because the thing is by the time they have found their own totems + Lullaby most of the time they are sitting at 3-4 gens, with several hooks in between.
That sounds like a cool build you have tho!
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@[Deleted User] said:
why use plaything on freddy? that only does something if survivors are awake
Basically Plaything poses as the "Lullaby" totem, causing survivors to waste time looking for it. Think of the way that Undying worked as a time waster.
So more than it's effects you are using it to have multiple hexes throughout the map, without needing to bring an all hex build.
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Me saying "I'm working on a gen in the butt-xxxx room"
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I mean, some of us are still having fun in the game and actively participating on the forums. 🤷♂️
You know the reason you think people "pretend" some of the trolling is a part of it? Because they don't see it the way you do.
Some of us don't take the game that serious.
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It is sad to see that new players won't be able to have access to him.
IMO that demo pupper in the pic represents all those new demos that could have played with us and now they can't.
Demogorgon mains, just know you have something special and how lucky you are.
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I don’t find it fun to slug everyone but sometimes survivors aren’t careful.
However, I am not going out of my way to slug. Meaning down someone and leave them on the ground for no reason. That is just boring to me.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2642766#Comment_2642766
The perk doesn't have enough restrictions, because it's supposed to be anti-tunnel but hooking someone else doesn't deactivate and opening an exit gate doesn't deactivate it. If those things are happening, then how is that person being tunneled? It's just abusing a defensive perk to use it offensively against the killer.
I am saying that even if the gate is on the other side of the map from the hook, once that person is unhooked and has DS, they get out. They'll get hit through BT and get a sprint burst, or you wait out their BT but also give them more distance in doing so, so they're guaranteed to get close to the exit even from full map away, and that's without teammates body blocking. They can also be recovering on the ground and get picked up by teammates and be body blocked when you try to slug. That, or they could have Unbreakable and/or Soul Guard.
We want to be able to pick up the survivor and hook them a last time instead of having to use moris, Rancor, or Tombstone just to get them out. Unless you're hard tunneling one person, which will cause you to lose everyone else, you're not even gonna have anyone on third hook most of the time, so you usually have to respect DS twice even in late game.
And no, most of the time the team isn't gonna leave the easily saveable survivor. We've seen a rise in people straight up leaving because they didn't even want to try, but that's the exception and not the rule. Unless survivors throw the match or are facing a Leatherface, they can guaranteed get someone off hook and out the exit. "But what if they don't have BT or DS?" Then that's the silver lining. But a majority of the time they'll have both BT and DS, because we're talking about high level here, and they get out for free because they equipped perks.
See now you’ve added even more “variables” without considering there is also variables against survivors.
Also ask yourself why the majority of survivors have BT and DS. Many people would like to play other builds but the moment they start to get tunneled they go back to DS. That has been my experience anyway.
So forgive me if I lack sympathy for what you think is abusive about DS still. When nothing was changed mechanically about a play style that in 2021 is still considered a “strat”.
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Bad match huh ?
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2642671#Comment_2642671
DS can be used in the early game as well. Just because it would be disabled late game changes nothing about it early game, so why would tunneling need to be disabled?
DS is not situational. It's doing something every game. It has changed the way most killers play. If the killer wants to tunnel because he feels like it, he gets DS'd, fair. But most of the time killers are forced to tunnel to play catch-up, because the gens go too fast. So they either tunnel and have a chance at winning, or they lose. So they take that chance and they get stunned, after chasing that person again and picking them up, and get nothing for it except that stun meanwhile everyone else is pushing gens. But if you don't take the DS early, they have it late game and it makes them have a guaranteed escape once they get unhooked.
So it's anti-tunnel and then some, because if it's endgame and you have to camp the person, you're not really tunneling them because they're the only person you can get, but you still get stunned by it anyway.
The killer has to respect it too, even if they don't have it. The stun punishment is too much. That's what makes it OP, because you have to assume everyone has it, and chance it thinking they don't have it when you're forced to tunnel. So no, it works in every situation.
There is absolutely a chance to escape when the survivor is hooked far from the gate. They just use their sprint burst and DS to guaranteed get out. If they can't even do that, that's their fault. Once that person's off hook, then maybe if their unhooker didn't give BT and nobody body blocks, that person can't get over to the gate before DS runs out. But survivors will do those things to save that person, so that's not a possibility. And if you go for the unhooker, they sprint burst away and everyone blocks for them instead, even the hooked guy because he has the crutch BT/DS combo so he's invulnerable in taking the hit for that guy.
And this argument about slugging to avoid DS has been done to death, and it never works. If you slug to avoid DS early in the game, they still have it the next time they get unhooked, so you have to wait 60 seconds twice while standing over their body in order for it to work. Yeah, that's not happening. The team will rush gens and/or pick that person up and body block them. It's just as detrimental as taking the DS because it wastes too much time that you don't have. Slugging to play around DS doesn't give much advantage at all, because the others will either rush gens because you're hanging around their body, or you didn't hang around and they instantly get picked up and run away to hide, killing your tunneling strategy right then and there.
You should probably find the comment where the guy's telling the OP to bring Rancor to counter late game DS. That's needing a perk just to counter something, not DS which counters tunneling but is also a guaranteed escape card in endgame.
It doesn’t change early game but you are restricting an already heavily restricted perk.
One that half way gives you 5 seconds should a killer choose to tunnel at any given time during the trial. So my philosophy is that if one perk can have that many restrictions to the point of making it a pointless perk, then so should the very mechanic it intends on countering.
You are only presenting one outcome of where DS shines during endgame. Because in reality if (as I pointed out before) the gates are far, you can chase that same survivor down them again and slug them. But if you wanna get technical about it, and you are concerned about 1 kill you can always trade off.
There are plenty of perks that allow you to secure the kill (STBL, NoEd, NWO, BW etc) not to mention killer powers (99% Michael, Bubba, Plague, Trickster etc)
Again, I feel like you are only focusing on one scenario where The hook was close to the gates. Though I think the point you are missing is how much this perk doesn’t need any more restrictions, when that one scenario isn’t guaranteed. Sometimes people have been left on hook too because there was no way in hell they would get to a gate in time.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2642658#Comment_2642658
Because perks and tactics are entirely different. Hooking someone one after the other is not even the same as someone getting unhooked, running to a gate, and then stunning the killer guaranteed because you had 45 seconds left on your perk. There is absolutely nothing the killer can do to stop that person from getting out if they get unhooked and have DS, but survivors can do so much to make sure that tunneling 1 survivor costs the killer 5 gens and the other 3 survivors. And even then that tunneled survivor can still get out.
You said it yourself perks and tactics are different. So why do you have a problem with a situational (at best) perk? A perk is suppose to be a power-up/bonus provided the right situation presents itself?
As I explained earlier, if the person is far from the gates. There is no chance they get out. Unless the killer makes a mistake. Because in the realm of “tactics” you can also Slug them to give YOU the upper hand and prevent their stun.
Its just very comical when you think about the fact that the person had to bring a perk that has been nerfed to death, to counter a built in tactic.
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At this point I honestly don’t even care if the devs change or don’t change No Ed.
One thing is for certain, the perk feels cheap and it is very obvious who has it. Which is the reason I have never ran this perk. I would rather keep learning ways to better my gameplay than use a cheap perk.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2642058#Comment_2642058
That makes zero sense. Tunneling should be "disabled" in the first part of the game because DS can't be used in the last part of the game? And btw, if someone gets tunneled out at 4-5 gens still up, the survivor team is throwing. You should be doing way more gens than that if the killer's really tunneling like you say.
Yeah I mean if there are hard restrictions on survivor perks why not on killer tactics?
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@BabuDweet said:
Omfg, so ds has been nerfed into the ground and balanced beyond belief yet you STILL want another change because you can't secure a kill earlier in the game?
Honestly, that's just ######### dumb.
Some of these killers will never be happy until a perk is introduced that basically spawns all 4 survivors on a hook.
I really wish I was exaggerating but some of the comments on these forums against survivors is just as you said plain dumb.
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@JPA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2642102#Comment_2642102
I toggle between the two all the time. Solo Queue is not 50% as stressful as Killer.
Not even 10%.
According to who?
SoloQ survivor gives you less control of the match. You can’t force others to be team players and that is precisely what you need to complete your objective.
I would rather play killer than SoloQ. This is why many people start playing survivor and quickly switch to killer.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2642269#Comment_2642269
If the perk is actively designed to disincentivize tunneling, then intentionally forcing its activation is absolutely playing into it.
I mean if survivors didn’t unhook that survivor with DS, that killer would have only had 1 kill anyway.
So the best thing to do is to force a trade. Which is equivalent to securing a 1k. Sometimes that can also turn into a snowball.
I don’t know how they would change that considering the alternative when survivors don’t run DS is just to die. Because survivors do not have built-in counters.
So my opinion is that at that point it becomes very situational on both sides. Because even when you have DS if the door is not close enough, there is no way they are getting out.
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I agree, but only when tunneling is disabled within the first part of the game. Because there is no reason to tunnel at 4-5gens. Yet people still do it.
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Yep.
I generally don’t care what perks people bring Survivor or Killer. The only thing I really complain about is the bugs and overall game performance. Simply because it becomes hard to enjoy when you tack on the fact that it was a bad map (for that trial) or you were playing against optimal builds. It is then when I take issue with the game.
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I mean you are allowed to be wrong.
Many of us have been playing killer in this game for a while and do not share the same experience as OP.
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@Exxodus21 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2639166#Comment_2639166
I think you meant by 3 "gens".
If Dead Hard cost you 3 gens, I would highly question your ability or lack there of as killer.
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Im just gonna say this.
Imagine if killer hexes were as loud as boons. That is all I am going to say.
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It's not necessary.
Change the solo survivor's playstyle (I.E. Stop crouching hiding 90% of the time, do gens, do totems, take a hit for a teammate in need, save before second hook, stop farming WITHOUT Borrowed Time... the list goes on)
You got a perk for that? Cuz then we can talk about the communication part.
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Funny thing is even if there was one I wouldn't use it.
They are very easy to find.
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@I_am_Negan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2633084#Comment_2633084
Job? Yes
Competitive or party game?
win or have fun.
It's just how you want to look at it.
I'm not telling anyone to relax play how you want but, I'm tired of players saying that their forced to camp and tunnel when nobody is forcing them they choose to camp and tunnel.
But, if you would relax and not take it as a job you will see that you play a lot better more focused then taking it so seriously and getting stressed out.
I think some of these people will never be happy until they 4K every single match honestly.
Usually if survivors are good camping will have negative effects rather than be used as a strat. So I understand what you are saying about playing better while remaining focused.
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I agree.
However, sometimes when I play SoloQ I need to go see if the killer is actually camping, then I will hop on a gen or trade if I must.
These days you have to trade at least one more time, if you want to get 3 out.
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I would like more resources just so the game feels more interactive. At that point they can balance pallets if they want.
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@Kalinikta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2631662#Comment_2631662
What does the killers fun have to do with it... god... read my very first post again. That is the hypocrisy of the situation. You claim to not want to derail the topic, yet fail to understand what is stated in the very first post. I even quoted it for you again. Literally you are ignoring the topic and trying to twist it into your narrative.
Camping isn't fun for the survivor, great... now what? Let's get rid of it as many suggest and go do the challenge. Which means you avoid these unfun tactics all together.
That is what the challenge is about. The hypocrisy of this attitude that killers have to consider the fun of their opponents. Yet survivors don't play that way either, even when it is blatantly obvious that the killer isn't camping or tunneling.
People act all high and mighty, you don't want to force it upon survivors and yet... you condone it at some point in the game. However is it ever fun for the survivor? If they did 2 gens or 3 gens and then land on the hook. You might only be bothered by at 5 gens, but that isn't the only time people have grievances.
You state that most people play both sides, my challenge is open for all.
Geez, read what I said. What does killer's fun have to do with it when they are Camping not because "they had to do it" but when they do it without reason. You talk about people not reading, you are clearly the worst.
I am not ignoring the topic, I am educating you in what you are clearly missing. You think "I have to camp because if you play nice you lose".... which is what an amateur would say. Because those of us who know, know that you can camp as a strat, but you can also LOSE when you camp, because experienced survivors will not fall for that bait. Camping can be a strat IF used right, doesn't mean you have to do it in every single match, let alone do it at the start of a match.
I don't keep track of how many gens where done when there are 4 death skulls tallied towards my results. If gens fly for you, you might be doing something wrong. Which is the point I have been trying to get across and why your post is cringe level at best.
You condone Camping because YOU have to do that, whereas some of us don't. Relying on camping is not relying on skill. If you need evidence look no further than within your own thread (I'll give you a hint, some of them are right above this comment).
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@Kalinikta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2631537#Comment_2631537
I need to research your track record, yet you fail to read the posts and clarification in this very thread, but you believe I should have done research on your 4.5k posts to know where you stand. This is why I call you entitled, you engage in a conversation with me and comment on me 'if you did research' while you don't even bother reading the actual thread you choose to participate in.
I am challenging people, because it showcases the necessity of these tactics and the fact that it is part of the actual game design. Naturally as with all of these things, people will use it to the largest extend or in incorrect manners. Yet that is no different than what you see in survivor gameplay.
Since you have difficulty following the conversation, let me showcase it point by point:
My ego is to big and I cannot handle the actions of survivors:
Let me quote it directly from the very first post... we starting out great here.
"It is hilarious that people are so dead set on the teabagging aspect of the comment, while not understanding that it is about the hypocrisy of those that dislike tactics because of the argument 'it is not fun for the other side' therefore do not do it!Teabag away, click away... I really could care less about it. It is about the idea that killers need to conform and consider the 'fun' of the opponents while clearly that is not the same for both. All these arguments I keep reading on: camping isn't fun for the survivors, tunneling isn't fun for the survivors. These people are those that I challenge to play nice and see how that feels. I play both sides as well, I understand the frustrations of both and I personally see no issues in people tunneling and camping when they feel the need to do so, just as I understand that survivors focus on gens and camp pallets, etc."I also specified in further discussion in this very thread that it is not about the end result or ones ability to handle the actions, but the intent behind them. I have been playing games for many years, the act of crouching or clicking the flashlight has nothing to do with my ego. Even the final result of me losing and getting zero kills at times, is a totally acceptable outcome in my books. My entire argument is that the request and demand that other people play differently is hypocritical based on what they face consistently. You can be the nicest killer and there won't be any change on the actions of the survivors, frankly usually these are the games I get the most provoking end-game chats.
Somehow my inflated ego cannot handle playing nice, yet I still try? The gens flying and all that is when I start up the game and try to play 'nice' and not when I utilize the tools of camping and tunneling.
You camp and tunnel, they are strategically to be used:
Congratulations you are showcasing the fact that it are valuable tools in our belt to be used. Even you as a 6k hour player use them, but is trying to tell me off.
Here have another quote where I specified and clarified, before you even made your first post:
"I am also not claiming that these strategies are the end all be all of killer gameplay and need to be used mindlessly. Doing that can be punished, just as much as spreading the pressure amongst the other survivors."All you have done here is actually validate my point.
My parameters would suggest that people complain about camping do not play killer...
I make no such claims and it is once again you filling it in to suit your narrative.
The challenge is simple:Pick a killerPlay the killerPlay nicely, never camp, never tunnel
You yourself admit that you use tunneling and camping when you play. It isn't simply about playing killer, it is about the playing nicely and see how the survivors respond.
If you want to address the tactics used, while they by your own accord are to be utilized strategically as well... now that is the dilemma now isn't it. You claim that many people know what I am stating, yet somehow even you make statements like:
"Do I force it upon survivors so that I can barely get my 1k? Hell no."So... you are against end-game camping as well as 5 gen face camping? Is the fun of the killer at all in this consideration of gameplay or is only the survivors enjoyment important?
If you want to address the ability of camping and tunneling, you have to be able to replace it with something else. If you try playing nicely as I challenged people to you, maybe they would understand the flaws of getting rid of it all together and it would create a better conversation? Though nah... lets ignore all the legit strategical usages like in every other post and just suggest broken mechanics or the removal of it all together. Your claims that many people know it doesn't seem to make its way onto the forums and the discussions.... so maybe people should actually accept my challenge.
Oh I read your post. I also read the parts that you added after the comments.
I never said you should research my track record, I offered it after you assumed that I only recognize one form of Camping, which is untrue.
Point is. I wasn't trying to derail your post, in fact I was trying to bring light to the fact that many people who already complain about Camping... ALSO play killer and understand it's unbalance. That's it.
You find it to be a necessity, and I disagree with that also. Because I understand that much of the results of a much weigh on Map RNG, and also set ups. We don't have to get into those details, but what I am suggesting is that many killers (not all) Camp because that is what they know. Meaning that rather than learn the game (Hiding stain/Mindgames/ Drop chase/ Etc) they would opt to that playstyle because it's easier.
Sorry that I didn't follow your entire thread through it's entirety, I am not going to read every single comment you reply to.
Also, when I said I "don't force it upon survivors" I never said Endgame, I don't know where you are getting that from. What I meant was I don't down my first down and roam within a 5 meter radius around the hook to get my next target. Like your next sentence "Is the fun of the killer important?...." What kind of question is that? What does that have to do with the Camping that I am referring to? If a killer face-camps there is only one person who is not having fun: The survivor on the hook.
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@Kalinikta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2631401#Comment_2631401
I am not clear? I did not specify any type of specific camping, you however try to pigeonhole it into your conformity! All I stated is that before you complain, go play the killer, act as you request and do no forms of camping, no forms of tunneling and experience that aspect of killer.
You act like asking people to walk in the shoes of those that one demands to not tunnel and camp, go experience it yourself and then come back to discuss it is a wrong thing to do? It creates a better understanding and the fact that you mister 6k hours feel so entitled to tell me a 500 hour player, to just get good and that there is no reason for it. Showcases the exact behavior that I mean, you want me to see your point of view, yet you claim all the knowledge and fail to speak to me on the premise I setup. You are just derailing the entirety of the premise that I setup to fit your Facecamp at 5 hooks scenario.
You come into the topic I created and ignore the majority of my parameters. Know your track record... man you ignored the posts in this exact topic that I made myself. I have specified in a post 2 above your original one and others, camping with a 3 gen, end game and all the likes and not specifically and only face camping at 5 gens.
Get your entitled 6k hours and stop trying to twist the topic to suit your agenda. I at least ask people to play as they preach and to look at their own gameplay... you however believe it is suitable to demand others to change how they play. With your infinite knowledge... why do you think I use these tactics and many others?
Keep calling people entitled but let’s not forget that you are challenging people to go play killer because you yourself lost and because your ego is too big that you can’t take it when survivors t bag you and click their flashlight. 🙄
Sure I’ll go do what I have already been doing I guess 💅 Please. Many people who have complained about camping (like myself) have and are still playing killer, and do not need to rely on those playstyles to win.
Do I camp? sometimes Yes.
Do I tunnel? Sometimes Yes.
Do I force it upon survivors so that I can barely get my 1k? Hell no.
Playing nice and strategically using those playstyles are two different things. You don’t have to “play nice”, but you also can’t complain if gens fly and you are heavily relying on playing like that.
Your parameters would suggest that people who complain about camping do not play killer which isn’t the case. NEWSFLASH Many people play and are equally invested in both roles already. They also understand that Camping and Tunneling can be a strat but that they can also be a form of BM. Period.
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@Kalinikta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2631073#Comment_2631073
If you want to speak only about one aspect and scenario of camping, then you are trying to derail the conversation I am trying to have here. This is a topic I brought up and the fact that you deny every other form of camping and tunneling, where they are viable tools to be used. I am not trying to make up my own reasons, this is the topic I brought forth based on the experience I have when playing 'nice' and why I apply tactics as camping and tunneling after usually two games of trying to be nice. I express that those that want to complain about these things should try doing it, because I do understand the frustrations as a survivor.
In my 500 hours of playing with most of it being on the killer side, though most likely a good 100+ on survivor I have not face camped at the beginning of the match because frankly it would lose me the game. Yet I am called a camper, tunneller, baby killer, noob, etc. because guess what... I do use these tactics when suited. Those that actually would play the killer and try to play nice at any decent level while maybe not at your 6k hour mark will know why and get far more understanding of why killers do it. The less experience the killer has the more likely they will do so, the harsher they are losing and getting destroyed, the more likely they will do so.
You claim to know the game that well, yet fail to empathize with those that don't have the hours you do. The survivors are the poor sods here?
No, actually it is you who think survivors out to just try out killer simply because you excuse “whatever” type of Camping. When in reality many of the instances where a killer is camping is due to poor skill/just want to BM (see post about idling at the hook).
I never said there was only one form of camping, in fact if you knew my track record you would know that I have also defended killers who played against survivors who flock at the hook. You weren’t clear in your message (OP) and that isn’t my problem.
Maybe next time don’t pigeonhole every survivor who complains about Camping (you know the type you yourself wouldn’t like) by telling them to go play killer. As if some of them don’t already.
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@Kalinikta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2630808#Comment_2630808
Change the way someone else plays instead of changing the manner in which you play... very solid advice. Tell me how does that work out? I try playing nice... and yet meet only the sweat, trash talking and most BM in those games that I do. So... why would I be motivated to learn to play without these playstyles while they have proven to be powerful tools.
You have 6k hours in the game, yet are struggling to face players that use these tactics or can you outplay them? How many full teams with individuals with similar hours do you meet or people that have 4x the time spent. It is a common occurrence for me to see multiple survivors with literally 4x the amount of hours I have in a single lobby and they would still be on one third of yours.
You state that good luck pressuring them while camping and tunneling, yet the whole reason people apply these tactics and it gets complained about is because they work. If you tunnel at the correct time and do it quickly enough, there are enough generators still up and running that warding the other three survivors off them before they complete them becomes significantly more easy. When you get a camp in the middle of a 3/4 gen area creates a pretty decent area in the map to defend and ward them off the gens.
The argument that one should just play as a 6k hour veteran seems detached from reality, people keep claiming this is a casual game. Yet to play killer you have to match the equivalent of multi year veterans? I play both roles, I face people that camp and tunnel often enough, frankly I am not even that good of a survivor... yet I manage to protect my teammates in many cases as a solo queue survivor. Sure I have matches where we royally throw the game, but it has little to do with the tunneling or camping and more our lack of coordination.
The grand speech of a veteran, knowing the mechanics through and through... yet fails to comprehend why less experienced players feel the requirement to apply these tactics. Mind you I also do not believe that mindlessly doing so and by default deferring to them will make you successful, yet they are powerful and required tools to use at times.
Didn’t expect you to answer the question about the killers who (again) IDLE at the Beginning of the match. Just shows how disconnected YOU are from the issues that are brought up on here.
You basically don’t understand the why survivors have an issue with Camping and find it Unfun. You just want to apply your own made up reason. Got it.
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I play both roles, and at 6k hours I understand the mechanics enough that I don’t have to rely on those two playstyles to get kills.
I’ve also been very vocal when it comes to Camping because I believe there is room to improve the hook mechanic surrounding it.
Maybe the challenge you should be aiming at is those killer players who for no reason idle at the hook at the beginning of the match. Because instead of actually chasing and defending gens (you know.. playing the game?) they would rather not learn how to play the game.
Also, your job is not to protect generators, it is to pressure survivors off of them. So if you are camping and tunneling, good luck pressuring them. Kind of ironic how you talk about the two but seem to understand very little about them.
Last thing I will say is, the reason survivors complain about Camping is because they virtually cannot play the game on a hook. Since the counter to Camping (currently) is to do gens, one can understand why that might be classified as UNFUN. You don’t have to accept it, but if you play killer (as I presume you do) then you would know how easy it is to do it.
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@vacaman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2630452#Comment_2630452
You mean a specific scenario that can be reproduced every single game just by being in a SWF group? Oh yeah very specific.
Again. Anyone can act pretentious and think that just because a perk is strong, their match is going to succeed. This isn’t exactly reproducing when you aren’t doing gens because you’re spending too much time blessing totems and healing.
Bottom line is your skill and the killer’s skill matters just as much.
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@yougotexposed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2628948#Comment_2628948
Exactly. People(both sides) like to paint the worst case scenario on the book just so it seems like either side needs a sledgehammer nerf.
Aka all the vids and outrage about 4 survivors spam healing on a single totem with the best medkits and healing perks. It just doesn’t work in a real setting. Or some streamer posting a vid pulling off insane hex builds that destroy swf.
I’m starting to think no one really wants balance, they just want either side to be garbage so it’s a steamroll.
I agree with you.
There is a segment of this community that loves to use very specific scenarios to fit their own biased opinions.
Like in the OP for example, I just wanna ask “who is doing gens?” Because it sounds like the typical flashlight altruistic squads except with boons. Normally those are the teams that in my matches die at 1-2 gens done.
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I like it. I think it’s only going to be useful in specific scenarios. (I.E. boost to an exit gate, or against a camping killer)
Sprint Burst is far better, because you don’t have to wait to get hit.
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Personally I find the totems “potent” but not OP.
I think there is definitely room for changes. Like, for some reason part of me feels like the survivors should not be able to see the totem from anywhere on the map.
This would make it more interactive in trying to find its location and feel like you are rewarded for doing so. Just as an example.
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Tell me you’re bad at surviving without telling me you’re bad at surviving.
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The more survivors experience Camping and Tunneling, expect to see DS/UB/BT in their arsenal. It has nothing to do with SWF and everything to do with people being tired of bringing chill builds only to have to deal with those two playstyles.
Because there is no guarantee what type of killer let alone type of playstyle is going to take place. Unlike DS (A perk which is easily avoidable via not camping) You can’t really avoid being the player who has to play sacrificial lamb for the day while the others snooze holding M1.
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For years there has been a request to buff solo and for years, time after time solo players have proven how terrible they are making decisions.
Reliability is not found in solo Q, even with kindred they stand around crouched looking at each other. No gens done, no saves… farming off hook without BT doesn’t count.
So if Kindred can’t force them to take action I don’t know what can. No type of buff will change selfish playstyles which many solo players choose to follow.
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Sluzzy’s reaction:
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I mean… I 4k as pallet Freddy on this map.
So you do you I guess. 🤷♂️
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@Mandy said:
The problem with what you are suggesting is that by seeing the Killers profile you can work out a lot about the player in advance. For example from a Steam profile with their achievements you can usually work out which killer they're the most likely to play and change your build accordingly.
It used to be that you can see the Killers profile a long time ago (on Steam), and this led to players being effectively "blacklisted" because they were known for being a fantastic Nurse player for example, so they were dodged. That led to a lot of queue hopping, which affects matchmaking as well as players waiting an extraordinary long time for a match, just because they chose to play a character or that they were good at that character. So it was removed for very good reasons.
Why was it only the killer taken into account when it came to this decision?
Since you know, killers lobby hop as well. Just curious.
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So a totem is always going to be available on the other side of the map opposite of where you get hit?
I didn’t know this is how boons worked.
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@dallasmedicbag said:
iron will is something to complain about? maybe for spirit but really, just follow scratch marks and blood pools and a lil bit of your brain cells
For some folks it is VERY hard to do that apparently. I.E. They are horrible at tracking.
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Controversial but one that many share. Certainly I have no issue with either when I play killer.
Both are strong, but we can say the same thing about Ruin/Tinkerer.
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@Brokenbones said:
Thanks to the big man otz, we have a vid to demonstrate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFUIRwi0IxY
In the time it took Charlotte (who was in the same building as jake) to walk over and pick him up, he had almost recovered to 50% and that's only with unbreakable. Can you imagine this but with Charlotte at more of a distance + with the new boon perk and so on
So are we saying that the perk's effect will be available:
- Near very single down?
- Anytime anyone goes down?
- Everybody will have that exact build?
Only dumb killers would fall for it, and it is obvious that people who wanna use PS place themselves just right. I've played Twins and if that was a REAL scenario, I would first of all hear the boon totem ( as it is so obvious through the survivor sound). The door is blocked, so I would move Victor away from that room and block the door with Charlotte to block Jake in. So he can go ahead and get up, he won't be able to get out either way.
It is very easy to frame a 'demonstration' when in reality it doesn't always work out that way and isn't guaranteed.
Boon totems in effect could have been on the opposite side of that downed survivor, let alone a pallet being nearby. This is why power struggle is a very weak perk. So saying it is too strong because you have to pair it up with 2 other perks is insane to me.
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Just make sure that when they do "nerf" her, that you aren't claiming survivors asked for it, when you yourself are making a thread about how you can't "wait".
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Just gonna point out that in the 3 pages worth of responses the OP never once responded to 1. Not 1.
This post that rattled so many cages shouldn't even be taken serious. It not only shows OP is clearly inexperienced, probably heard someone else say "Dead Hard OP" so they made a thread, or maybe they just wanted to get people rattled up.
It's always these types of people creating these meaningless threads.
