Iron_Cutlass
Iron_Cutlass
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@typervader said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3866634#Comment_3866634
Licen was removed because it was way too strong with Hex builds. Thats the only reason
Lichen was not nerfed because of Hex Builds.
Lifeguard Whistle and (Sealing Time) addons were nerfed because of Hex Builds in a Patch with a bunch of Killer buffs and changes, with the intent of moving away from Devour Hope Demogorgon. Keep in mind that Hex Builds on Demogorgon were only an issue because of Lifeguard Whistle, it was the only problematic addon. This was Patch 8.4.0.
Leprose Lichen was nerfed (not removed, like you suggest, it was nerfed) in Patch 7.2.0.
Leprose Lichen was nerfed was before Demogorgon even came back to the game, and they were still a removed character as well, so it's not like Demogorgon's were running rampant doing Hex Builds to begin with. Since, if you dont know, Demo came back to the game shortly after the release of Patch 7.4.0, aka the release of Xenomorph.
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I really do hope they make it so you can access them in Custom Games.
On top of that, I also hope they give us the ability to play various Gamemodes in Custom Games since Id love to do some Lights Out or Chaos Shuffle with friends.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
We'll have to see if Paint Brush is balanced or not on the PTB, but either way, I don't think it's really comparable to Leprose Lichen.
Paint Brush can be avoided by waking up (which is going to be easier now since you can use any alarm clock) and comes with a penalty to the microsleep timer as well, which makes the direct counter even more effective.
Leprose Lichen gave you consistent and on-demand lingering map-wide aura reading for no real downside, yes your portals could be destroyed but not until you had already used them and gotten the aura reading, and even if they were destroyed you could always just place new ones. The only real restriction was the teleport cooldown which is short enough that it almost never matters anyway. For how easy it was to trigger and how often it could be used, it was far too powerful and was stronger than most aura reading perks.
And keep in mind: Leprose Lichen was powerful enough to get nerfed during a time when Distortion was a meta perk - it would be even stronger now that Distortion has been nerfed since.
Leprose Lichen gave you consistent and on-demand lingering map-wide aura reading with no real downside
- Knight has Iridescent Company Banner which gives you infinite Blood Warden and re-useable Bamboozle for free. But that's perfectly fine to have in the game.
- Plague has Black Incense which gives free Aura Reading on sick Survivors just for being sick, which is the thing she already does anyways, and it gets better if you use Lethal Pursuer.
- Clown has Cigar Box which gives you on-demand Aura Reading on any nearby Survivors with quite literally no downside whatsoever since you can reload and practically have infinite bottles.
- Chucky has Rat Poison which is literally just free on-demand Aura Reading for using your power, can be used in a chase, and is complained about infinitely more than any other addon in the game because of how busted it is, and it has received little to no changes and can also be extended with Lethal Pursuer. All of this while being a Rare Quality addon making it easier to get.
I really dont understand why a Killer that is often regarded as being mediocre cant have a solid Aura Reading addon if they lack the tangible mobility to really use that Aura Reading to great effect.
Leprose Lichen was powerful enough to get nerfed during a time when Distortion was a meta perk.
I quite literally never saw complaints about Leprose Lichen before it got nerfed, and I saw a lot of people upset that it get nerfed. You can look up "Leprose Lichen" on the DBD Forums and there are no threads asking for it to be nerfed and a ton of people complaining about the nerf to it.
During that time as well, whenever I would find a Demogorgon, 95% of them would run Barb's Glasses and Black Heart, because those are objectively their best addons, especially after Lifeguard Whistle (deservedly) got nerfed.
Leprose Lichen did have a strong effect, but it wasnt strong enough to be meta, especially when it was always better to run BBQ so you can teleport to where a Survivor actively is versus teleporting and hoping you just so happen to go near a Survivor's Aura.
There are just better Aura Reading addons that are more useful than Leprose Lichen that still remain as is but Leprose Lichen got nerfed before the others, which is where my main issue comes from, inconsistency in how they handle addons.
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Brutal Strength.
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Finesse itself is fine. You have to be healthy to use it which is a massive drawback in current DBD. Nor is it even meta either, since it's a dead perk slot if you get tunneled (since you cant be healed).
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It could be a visual update? Outside of that Idk what it could be.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865946#Comment_3865946
It wasn’t even only a 2% for a single addon:
- Upside Down Resin:
- After: Increases the Sealing time or Portals by 20% (was 28%)
- Before: Increases the Sealing time of Portals by +40 %.
The devs own description differs by 12% from what they say in the patch notes to what was in game.
Oh I thought you were talking about Viscous Webbing.
For Upside Down Resin, I really have no idea why there was such a massive difference between the ingame effect/description and Patch Notes. My only guess is that they could have confused it with something else when making the Patch Notes.
Keep in mind BHVR is a large team of people, there are bound to be occasional mistakes, errors, or jank in the process that sometimes slip through the cracks (or, depending on the update, like the UE5 update, be an actual flood gate of issues).
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865796#Comment_3865796
That’s so messed up. So they had the wrong values in the game for a decade before the update and then nerfed the already weaker wrong values. Wow
Yea. Im guessing it just wasnt a priority fix for Demogorgon since there were just more important things, especially when it's only 2% for a single addon.
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865796#Comment_3865796
Hmm... fair play, pretty much all of that makes sense to me.
It's not like Demo at base it overly oppressive, and you can only get 1 of these add-on effects, not all of them... you seem to have to commit one direction, or take a halfway house of two of them... and none of these add-on combos stick out to me as being grossly unfair with the combos I can see.
Outside of the Devour Hope build ofc, all of this seems fine to me.
As I've though about numbers, having Resin at 25% (16s) or 30% (17.11s) and Webbing and 15% (14.11s) respectively and 40% (20s) or 45% (21.81s) for both results in what looks to be reasonable numbers to me. Decently strong without being unga bunga silly.
Demogorgons ~3s place and use time on a portal to block an attempted closure seems reasonable. Having a 18s window to detect an attempted close sounds plenty to me
Devour Hope on Demo was oppressive but in the same regard Lifeguard Whistle already got nerfed (deserved) but them nerfing the Sealing Time addons in the same patch makes zero sense when Lifeguard Whistle was the only issue.
Granted we also did have Hex: Thrill of the Hunt buffed so I guess you could maybe make the argument that "they can just manually check now since they have plenty of time," but at that point there are just far more engaging builds that dont require you to do an entire rigamarole to keep your gimmick up the entire game.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865754#Comment_3865754
Just cause I like DBD history, a plebian Demo and am confused but also interested, would you guys mind explaining why your numbers differ to the patch notes, and why you want some of those changes?
The Demogorgon - Addons
- Viscous Webbing:
- Increases the Sealing time of Portals by 10% (was 16%) (You reckon 14%? Why a drop of 2%? Are both the wiki and patch notes wrong? https://deadbydaylight.wiki.gg/wiki/Viscous_Webbing)
- Thorny Vines:
- Increases the Area of Effect of Active Portals by 1 meter (was 1.5 prior to 4.7.0, and you want 3m? Why?)
- Increases the Sealing time of Portals by 8% (was 11%) (was 14% prior to 4.7.0, understand this, but thoughts would be interesting)
- Upside Down Resin:
- Increases the Sealing time or Portals by 20% (was 28%) (I dunno where this 28% number comes from, was this a 50% nerf to this add-on? I think the wiki alkso contains an error… https://deadbydaylight.wiki.gg/wiki/Upside_Down_Resin :S)
- Leprose Lichen:
- While traversing the Upside Down, the Auras of all Survivors are revealed to you.
- After emerging from a Portal, the Auras of all Survivors within 16 metres of an active Portal are revealed to you for 3 seconds. (changed in 7.2.0, originally was global. Why would auras and longer auras of far away survivors be useful after emerging? There is an argument for "why not?", but even if it were changed, the primary effect and immediate value doesn't seem to alter much, or am I wrong?)
- Eleven's Soda:
- Shows the Auras of Generators being repaired in yellow while traversing the Upside Down. (Prior to 4.7.0 - Reduces the Power Recovery Cool-down by -2 seconds after traversing the Upside Down. Basekit for this is 10s. Hmmm… seems fair enough… bouncing between portals more in the event you take a bad portal?)
You reckon 14%? Why a drop of 2%? Are both the wiki and patch notes wrong?
Yes but no.
The ingame values they actually provide has never matched the description when doing speed checks for the addon, when lining up videos perfectly it always amount out to around 14% instead of the original intended amount.
Unironically though, they fixed this when tweaking the addon since they had to change the description and percent to match up, so at the very least it saves time on bug reports.
was 1.5 prior to 4.7.0, and you want 3m? Why?
This Im aware of, it use to have only slightly more range, being 1.5 meters, and not 3 meters.
I think it should be tweaked to 3 meters since the Killer Instinct from Portals could definitely have their addons buffed since they are overall lackluster and awful.
(I dunno where this 28% number comes from, was this a 50% nerf to this add-on? I think the wiki alkso contains an error…
It was 40%. The wiki is straight up wrong in the values since it relied on an error in the Patch Notes, the ingame value was 40% and was listed as such in the ingame description.
changed in 7.2.0, originally was global. Why would auras and longer auras of far away survivors be useful after emerging? There is an argument for "why not?", but even if it were changed, the primary effect and immediate value doesn't seem to alter much, or am I wrong?)
Your viewing perspective is locked into going the direction of the teleport. Meaning you get limited value from seeing Survivor's auras during the teleport itself. The main appeal of this addon was seeing the Auras of Survivors after completing the teleport since you get a full 360* view to take advantage of the Aura Reading.
Keep in mind as well this effect also worked on short teleports, so you could just place two Portals close by and quickly teleport to them to basically get BBQ without using a perk slot, which seemed to be something BHVR didnt like for whatever reason.
Furthermore, the effect isnt even that strong, but BHVR nerfed it for being "too powerful" meanwhile they keep other addons, that are significantly stronger, unchanged.
(Prior to 4.7.0 - Reduces the Power Recovery Cool-down by -2 seconds after traversing the Upside Down. Basekit for this is 10s. Hmmm… seems fair enough… bouncing between portals more in the event you take a bad portal?)
You could stack it with Unknown Egg to get a 5.5 teleport cooldown.
Unknown Egg would eventually get nerfed (and reverted back), and Eleven Soda was changed to overall have a different effect, killing these utility items. Granted, there are still better addons, I personally loved to use them to abuse the global teleport audio to bait Survivors into thinking I left when I didnt, or using it for teleport heavy hit/run playstyles with minimal downtime.
It doesnt help that the current Eleven Soda is just an objectively worse version of Leprose Lichen, since it requires Survivors to actively be working on a Generator in the same direction that you are teleporting to as opposed to it just being a generic Aura Reveal… which frankly it is just better to bring an information perk at that point.
While I dont take wrong teleports with Portals, since I have thousands of hours on Demo, they also served as new player friendly addons that encouraged them to use Portals since they wouldnt be punished as harshly for doing so, which I think is a positive thing to have for Demo.
- Viscous Webbing:
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@Shinkiro said:
Lol what? Killers complaints are actively ignored 99% of the time, hell they usually make things worse. Meanwhile (reasonable) survivor complaints are dealt with promptly. Survivors have practically all the say in game balancing and you all still try and gaslight killers.
Dealt with promptly
Dealt with… but not promptly. Also we do get ignored.
- Endurance on Unhooks took us several years to get, and upon release it was so horrible that it was basically useless. In the same patch they also gutted anti-tunnel so tunneling was super easy. They did later buff it to be more effectively but it is still lackluster on it's own and you still need to bring anti-tunnel builds to avoid being tunneled.
- We still dont have any way to Bleed Out faster so Survivors can still be slugged to death for 4-minutes because the Killer actively refuses to hook/mori Survivors out of pettiness or toxicity, this has been an issue for years and nothing has been done about it.
- Anti-Camp is laughably bad and can be ignored in most cases; it unironically made camping worse since Killers now proxy the hook which was the optimal way of camping anyways. Also ranged Killers can just sit in front of the hook from a distance with their M2 pulled up which just completely ignores this system anyways.
The only good/impactful change they have done recently.
- The only meaningful change they have made was increasing the duration you can remain on hook since the extra time allows Survivors to have more time to prepare for save or to finish a Generator/heal before going in for a save. Unironically I dont think people appreciate this single change and how meaningful it is.
Survivors have practically all the say in game balancing and you all still try to gaslight Killers.
Objectively wrong, BHVR listens to both sides.
We've recently see massive buffs to Killer powers:
- Demogorgon buffed.
- Twins buffed.
- Bubba buffed.
- Unknown buffed.
- Dracula buffed several times over.
- Houndmaster buffed several times over.
- Nemesis buffed.
- Myers buffed.
- Clown buffed.
- Huntress buffed.
- Deathslinger buffed.
- Dredge buffed.
- Knight reworked, and in many cases, just better now for the macro game.
- Wesker nerfed.
- Chucky nerfed.
- Skull Merchant gutted, but BHVR has stated that they are being reworked.
- Freddy has a planned reworked but has received minor buffs/changes to their addons.
Safe to say BHVR is trying their best to listen to the community as a whole. Granted, they sometimes make panic decisions that are horrible, like they did with Skull Merchant and Machine Learning, but I really dont think BHVR is strictly listening to Survivors when they have buffed more than they nerfed recently.
None of this is to be "woah Survivors have it bad" but Im tired of seeing posts/comments acting like BHVR "only" cares about Survivors when it is very clear that they are trying to appeal to both sides.
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As a Demo main, I really dont understand why they nerf his Portal addons so often, when most of the Portal addons dont even get used and it just further shoehorns players into running Rat Liver, Black Heart, and Barb's Glasses every game. Why use Portals addons or alternative playstyles if they are just going to get nerfed anyways?
- Revert Viscous Webbing; Increases time required for Survivors to seal Portals by 10% (should be 14%).
- Revert Thorny Vines; Increases time required for Survivors to seal Portals by 8% (should be 14%), Increases range of Killer Instinct by 1 meter (should be 3 meters).
- Revert Upside-Down Resin; Increases time required for Survivors to seal portals by 20% (should go back to 40%).
- Revert Leprose Lichen; After emerging from a Portal, the auras of all Survivors within 16 meters of a Portal (should remove the range requirement) are revealed for 3 seconds (should increase the duration to 5 seconds).
- Eleven's Soda; Shows yellow auras for Generators being repaired while traversing the Upside Down (should be reverted back to the original effect).
Leprose Lichen is the weirdest of the nerfs since it was nerfed because it was basically like a "free map-wide BBQ" but Knight can have infinite Blood Warden and free Bamboozle with his Iridescent Company Banner because that's fine apparently. Yes, Im still salty that they nerfed Leprose Lichen.
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A-Tier seems decently fitting, though you could also probably go with B-Tier as well, some where around that rough range.
Huntress, as a character, isnt bad, their chase power can be decent if used right but comes with enough drawbacks to make the character balanced. Huntress's perks are horrible and/or gimmicky, and have been longer overdue for buffs/reworks.
David as a character is really damn good. Their perks are really good (outside of No Mither), acting as a free way for players to access anti-tunnel and anti-slug perks (which is something new players are really lacking) through Dead Hard and We're Gonna Live Forever.
Mother's Dwelling, while a large map, is actually not as bad as people make it out to be, in my opinion. The main building is decent and most structures are fair to play around for either side. Outside of the map size itself, I think of it as a really balanced map since the structures as really well designed.
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She moves really slow while crouched and she has her Reverse Bear Traps significantly nerfed from using this addon. There is no reason to nerf it when it already nerfs herself for an effect that is (in most cases) not worth the downside.
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Flashlights already have limited charges, they will eventually run out.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3864479#Comment_3864479
This is the purely emotional criticism of the state of the game... that has led to this state of the game, because the devs take this as gospel. Surely it couldn't be that players are just playing killer normally, trying to win, and are being interpreted as toxic. 🤦♀️
…Because when any complaints arise from the Killer's perspective is entirely founded on the basis of science and objective facts because Killers can never be emotional or wrong, they are, in fact, just machines that do not feel anything and can only think using logic and reason unlike those smelly human Survivors.
Anyways, have you seen that "Windows of Opportunity = OP" thread from the other day? Weird isnt it.
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@TWS001 said:
The ones I'm resigned to never getting are:
- the Left Behind one (do the last gen and escape through gate as the last survivor)
- Triple blink grab off a gen as Nurse (I'm bad at nurse and not even attempting it! )
- Skilled Huntress (I'm on PS5 and you need 100 downs with hatchets from 24m or more instead of 20 on PC. I have 8 in over 3 years and that was during this event by snowball fighting survivors during this event and them letting me hit them from far away in the gates at the end!)
I do have a lot of the annoying ones though where I've got lucky. Did the 4 tombstone Myers one after about 5 attempts, The RPD one is long since done and did the eye of Vecna one the very first match against them on the release day. And the one genuine escape I've ever got on Forgotten Ruins, I did the dungeon generator.
Left For Dead took me hundreds of hours to get, very rarely do you get a situations when you can get it, and even if you do get a situation where you can get it, there are so many factors working against you to where you are really unlikely to get it.
It's luck, just pure luck.
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Perchance. Idk who this is on the Forums though. Was playing Huntress (in fact the same game that I got the Skilled Huntress achievement on) and Idk how I got noticed but I did.
I think this is the 3rd time over 2 years that Ive been noticed as "someone on the DBD Forums" which is really surprising considering how small the Forums are compared to other social media platforms.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863759#Comment_3863759
Dredge in the main building of Eyrie is what I've mostly seen
Wouldnt Dredge be slower due to the teleport cooldown though? At least with Nurse you can fall during the fatigue/recharge and keep a more consistent pace.
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@UndeddJester said:
Deadly plunge is denying me my 100%, I've learned that apparently on average I fall 10 meters a game... each game I go up by maybe 1%
I'm at about 63% currently, and gettimg there slowly, but getting on for 100 games is a little rough xD
From what Ive seen, people just use Nurse, send themselves to RPD or Ormand, and just constantly fall of ledge and teleport back up to the top. You can easily get 100-200 meters per game, just make sure to bring passive slowdown like Corrupt, Deadlock, etc.
I just havent gone out of my way to do it since I rather clip away at other achievements and get it passively.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863141#Comment_3863141
It is a custom icon pack called Nostalgia, my friend!
You can find it on NightLight.
Alright, Ill look into it. Tysm!
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@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/435647/im-really-tired-of-toba-landing
How would you suggest Toba Landing be changed to better fit your disability? Apologies if this is something you can't know, but is there a way they can tweak the colors of the map or the colorblind settings to help you see better?
Using neutralized colors and making Scratchmarks significantly more saturated and bright (avoid mid-tone or neutralized red) would be an amazing change to help prevent the two from easily blending in; Alternatively, bringing in more purple and less of the pink-ish red.
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Finesse only works while Healthy, it does a good job of making unsafe loops significantly safer, specifically window loops. It's good for more greedy playstyles since you can get more from a loop and conserve resources.
Dramaturgy works like old Dead Hard, you can use it to avoid a hit and/or to get distance, it also allows for greeding loops more. Since it also requires you to be Healthy, it makes good sense to pair it with Finesse
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@GeneralV said:
I give up and go play survivor.
Meanwhile, the survivor experience:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CGJK8T2JKOR1/image.png
Awesome event.
Sidenote; do you know where someone could get perk icons like that? I miss the older look and the larger border around the icons.
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Ngl Ive been playing Huntress to work at the Skilled Huntress achievement and it's been a massive pain.
Snowmen bodyblock loops or obstruct LOS so I cant hit Survivors.
Hits just dont count sometimes, I get the SQUISH from a long distance hit but they dont lose a Health State.
Servers are generally more laggy and players consistently have higher ping; I constantly get into lobbies where players have +200 ms, and it's not just me, it's everyone in the lobby.
Rubberbanding is fairly common as well from what Ive seen (Twitter clips and personal experience). Id line up a shot and get rubberbanded in front of a wall as soon as I let go of the hatchet.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3862119#Comment_3862119
We're wasting our time. These guys are opposed to killer buffs on principle. They'd argue against buffing Burger King Myers because "it would make him too strong." If people are having fun playing a killer, because they're winning, then it must be a bad thing.
These guys are opposed to Killer buffs on principle
What are you even on about? I literally said that their issue is their macro-game and that they need buffs to their macro play. I literally even proposed buffs.
They'd argue against buffing Burger King Myers because "it would make him too strong."
Burger King Myers has not existed in a long time since BHVR made changes to the addons of Myers. Even if, you could consider it a buff anyways since you dont move insanely slow with the addon combo that made BKM exist to begin with.
If people are having fun playing a Killer, because they're winning, then it must be a bad thing.
What does that even have to do with this thread? This is about buffing or reworking a character, not about playing or having fun.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3862117#Comment_3862117
yeah? it is not making his power anymore reliable to land. that is what anti-loop is. it's buffing reliability for killer land hits.
Okay, but in this case, it would turn a chase that would take two hits into a chase that takes a single hit, and it would change how Survivors play against his Redeemer shots since Survivors will be less inclined to take distance, fundamentally changing how their power is played against.
That is objectively a buff to their anti-loop.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3862071#Comment_3862071
i didn't buff his anti-loop. the dev are clearly poised to not give him his instant-scope back. i am suggesting that he gets better snowball pressure by allowing him to down survivors quicker for the purposes of slugging people on the floor to slow the game down.
to counter-act said idea, survivor will not want to heal and rush gens even further because healing is pointless so to introduce a pressure element to his gameplay, His TR is being reduced back to 24 meters to mirror 4.4 m/s of other killers. he will have more opportunity to sneak up on survivors that are injured and choose to brute force generators over heal.
at least from my observation for about year and half, i have low faith in them changing slinger because he's clearly on the "unfun survivor list" and dev are unlikely to buff him to have any relevancy in the game.
I didnt buff his anti-loop
You want Iridescent Coin basekit… that is literally buffing his anti-loop by giving them the ability to insta-down where as before they wouldnt have it.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861987#Comment_3861987
read 2nd change. all your redeemer hits will be exposed hits. starstruck is pointless perk. you get base-kit exposed. it would set him apart from other 2 ranged killers.
Deathslinger already has one of the strongest anti-loop abilities in the game, I dont think the anti-loop itself needs a basekit buff, I just think they need better tools to deal with the macro-game/4v1 as opposed to the 1v1, which is where they tend to suffer.
Id love to see his Redeemer get some interesting QOL changes; maybe shooting Generators could break them instantly from a distance (with the downside of needing to reload) and them being tweaked to be 115% if their gun isnt reloaded could help a lot with it.
It also would be cool to have alternative ammo types considering how (lore-wise) his Redeemer is a modified Rail Spike Gun; It could be a good idea to give them some ammo that provides information, like Trip-Wire Spikes or Aura Reading Spikes that can be applied near loops, important structures, or Generators.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861991#Comment_3861991
Thanks for the explaination, but wouldn’t it be 1.25 c/s (500%) regression?
100% (basekit) + 100% (call of brine) + 300% (overcharge) = 500%
Edit: Sorry wrote 400% for overcharge, I meant 300%.
Yes you are correct; I messed up a tiny bit when doing the math, so my apologies.
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@Langweilig said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/60EWHJL4EWG8/image.png
https://youtu.be/w261iaE-Ois?si=Plvx3cnEMAItIYOC
Can someone explain me the math behind it?
If I do the math, I only come to 400% (200% x 200%). I really don’t get how some say it was 600% or 500%.
What do you think of the old regression speed?I think call of the Brian was perfectly fine before the nerf and overcharge was much stronger, which you can see in the next video. They should have only nerfed overcharge and not call of Brian, which is a pretty much useless perk now.
The regression you gain increases the charges per second lost.
PTB Overcharge increased regression by 400% and Call of Brine increased regression by 200%; keep in mind that this would be 600% combined.
Regression from kicking Generators is 0.25 C/S (Charges Per Second) with 90 Charges (360 Seconds); Survivors repair Generators at 1 C/S with 90 Charges (90 Seconds). With Overcharge and Call of Brine, this is increased 1.25 C/S with 90 Charges (72 Seconds), or in other words, it would regress the Generator at a faster rate than it could be repaired.
Keep in mind you would also get the passive effects of both perks on top of the regression, youd get the difficult Skill Check and regression from Overcharge and youd get the information on hitting Skill Checks from Call of Brine; but there was this weird synergy/bug where the difficult Skill Check would always proc the notification from Call of Brine.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
i feel like i recognize this name from some youtube channel. a deathslinger main.
I think he should get two things.
- lower terror radius to 24 meters
- redeemer inflicts exposed on hit(iri coin base-kit).
lower tr would help slinger start chases closer and exposed would make his gun more rewarding to hit fulfilling the fantasy of a sniper that shoots from shadows and hits his prey.
Lower Terror Radius to 24-meters
No.
I like running Starstruck on Deathslinger and I hate being forced to use Agitation to get value, I love the increased Terror Radius because of this, it really works into his kit well.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861790#Comment_3861790
They waste too much time over Magic Items early on and get stomped because everyone is running around searching Chests instead of doing Generators.
In our defense some people are really desperate to get that achievement due to the rarity of Vecna sightings
Oh dw, Im more than aware, it took me literal months of playing Survivor to get the achievement bc Vecnas are not common to come by and 95% of the time someone else would roll 20s before me.
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861678#Comment_3861678
To this day I still don't get why people find The Lich hard to play against.
- Situational KI.
- Flight that is infinitely worse than Dracula's teleport, and has a fat cooldown.
- Blocking pallets, only for it to get dropped in their face the next time they get around the loop.
- FotD is his best tool, but it only comes into play on elevations or when reading a vault.
His entire kit just seems mediocre to me. I just don't get the hype.
Also… Happy Holidays fellow forum user. Hopefully you've had a wonderful day.
Situational KI.
I think people forget that it's more than Killer Instinct, it disables Magic Items… ya know… the things that counter Vecna. Dispelling Sphere can be really, really damn good if you know when and where to use it, and most Vecna's dont know how to use it generally speaking so you wont really be suffering against it when playing against Vecna.
Flight that is infinitely worse than Dracula's teleport and has a fat cooldown.
Flight is definitely worse than Dracula's teleport, Im not contesting that, but there are many techs with Flight that make it really good.
The starting animation can be started and cancelled, and you lose collision with Survivors, it outright removes bodyblocking. Depending on how well you time it, you can even use it to push Survivors, a similar thing happens with the end of Flight so you can use it to push Survivors away from structures as well.
Blocking pallets, only for it to get dropped in their face the next time they get around the loop.
Vecna's Mage Hand isnt bad, it requires really precising times is definitely not easy to use. It also (of course) comes with the drawback of giving Survivors more resources or preserving Survivor resources if you misuse it, which makes it really, really punishing for new players.
Of course Mage Hand gets countered by Magic Items, but Dispelling Sphere removes it, and you can save your Dispelling Sphere to use on Survivors who has the Magic Item that gives them Haste on casting Mage Hand.
FotD is his best tool, but it only comes into play on elevations or when reading a vault.
Partly correct. It does shine when Survivors are animation-locked or when there is a difference in elevation.
…BUT, you can still summon Flight of the Damned directly onto Survivors for hits. Granted, Survivors have adjusted to this and some try to predict this to avoid being hit, but it's an extra way of using it that a lot of people tend to underutilized.
To this day I dont understand why people find Lich hard to play against
They waste too much time over Magic Items early on and get stomped because everyone is running around searching Chests instead of doing Generators. (Typically it is best to just do Generators and only check Chests when you are naturally traveling from place to place, going out of your way to get Magic Items and avoid objectives is just throwing the game.)
Also their powers have counterplay that either involve needing a specific item, predicting (where a lot of people tend to struggle, especially with Vecna summoning FotD on top of Survivors), and general game sense to deal with, which is overall more demanding than your average Killer.
I honestly dont think Vecna is as bad as people make them out to be, the issue tends to be that their whole kit requires a lot of skill and is extremely punishing for making the smallest of mistakes… kind of like Billy, back when they had Overheat.
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Ive said this for awhile but honestly Bloodpoints, while important, are not as important as Iridescent Shards (for new players). The Prestige Rework has left a majority of characters in a state where you can often get them to Prestige 3 and unlock all their perks before you even have enough Iridescent Shards to unlock a different character.
Granted, BHVR has gone back and made older Chapters/Paragraphs cheaper in terms of Iridescent Shard prices, I still think the issue persists for new players, and often not talked about.
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@Rulebreaker said:
To help the teams ability to stealth the killer
You want to know what else does that… Wire Tap.
Plus the aura reading for Wire Tap does not require you to be Broken the entire game. It is gained through naturally progressing your objective (does not waste time). It has a lot of synergies with existing perks. It benefits the entire time. You only need to bring a single perk to get value.
Wire Tap is just objectively better in every single possible way.
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Would you mind elaborating?
(I dont want this to come off as rude, Im just confused tbh.)
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Blindness, serves to do nothing against SWFs but everything against SoloQ. SWFs can just call out their positions to other players; SoloQ cant, they are forced to walk around with no information and (often) suffers a lot against it. To put it bluntly, Blindness is outdated, and should be tweaked.
I like the idea of it being anti-aura reading, it prevents Survivors from using perks to see the Killer's location, but in the same regard, the inability to see teammates makes it insanely strong against SoloQ. I think it should keep the anti-aura reading effect on the Killer, lose the anti-aura reading on teammates, but get a massive buff in duration or utility effect to compensate.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859718#Comment_3859718
I think that's where we kind of have to circle back around to your expectations being way too high to be reasonable for any given single patch.
Even a big shakeup patch like 6.1.0 isn't going to fundamentally change ingrained player habits like that, nor is it going to change the fundamentals of the game such that certain kinds of perks aren't going to inherently be pretty appealing. That doesn't mean nothing meaningfully changed and it definitely doesn't mean there were no successes.
Meaningfully, the gameplay surrounding Off The Record is completely different to the gameplay surrounding Decisive Strike, and that's just one example. If we look at last year's top ten survivor perks that BHVR shared - admittedly outdated now but iirc the significantly less reliable Nightlight doesn't show them being tremendously different - they paint a picture of gameplay that's considerably different to old Dead Hard used in conjunction with old offence-oriented Decisive Strike shored up by Unbreakable.
There is a degree to which the specific perks changing really is a meaningful meta shift even if they're the same perk archetype as before. That on top of all the other successes surrounding the overall state of the game is, I think, a better indication of what patch 6.1.0 was fundamentally going to be capable of than the game and its players radically changing overnight.
I think that's where we kind of have to circle back around to your expectations being way too high to be reasonable for any given single patch.
Sure. I can agree with you on that at least.
But you also have to understand the amount of advertising and hype they were building to this patch. The developers were saying that they spent months and months working on it, only for the impact it left behind to definitely not live up to the expectations, or at least my expectations.
In the current day, and not my past-self, Idk. I really disliked this patch and I feel like the effects of it has negatively impacted the game. I would personally love it if BHVR went back and took a look at the perks changed to just improve or touch things back up again.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859714#Comment_3859714
Well, to a degree, there's only so much one patch can do.
Patch 6.1.0 certainly created the climate for the meta to shift considering how much less necessary slowdown perks are specifically because of it (and a little bit 6.7.0 too, that one helped a fair bit), like I said, but then the question becomes… how much is the patch responsible for players still seeking the path of least resistance? If the game changed such that you don't need to run slowdown perks anymore, but players still do, what should be gleaned from that? I'm not so sure myself, I think it'd be a mistake to look to one specific thing here as our answer.
There's a degree to which Eruption and Overcharge/Call of Brine being way too good affected perceptions, definitely. I still think it'd be a mistake to look directly and solely at the patch like that, though.
It's also only looking at killer. For survivor, the meta just flat out changed.
For Survivor, the meta just flat out changed.
Not really… when you look at archetypes of perks, things just shifted like they did for Killer.
Dead Hard as an Exhaustion perk continued to be meta; players who wanted distance just swapped to another Exhaustion perk, but the Exhaustion archetype has and still continues to be meta.
Anti-Tunnel shifted from Decisive Strike to Off The Record. Granted Off The Record had a lot of issues and could easily be bypassed by the Killer, but there was not a strong enough alternative. Either way, the Anti-Tunnel archetype of perks still remained meta. In fact, this was the only significant shift in the meta.
Perks like Adrenaline, Resilience, Unbreakable, Deliverance, etc. were already meta before, got no immediate changes, and remained meta before/after the Patch 6.1.0. A lot of perks were buffed to shine more, I think Lightweight is an amazing example, but they even after the buffs making them really good, they are having to compete against meta perks, and people will often opt into the meta over them, which is why the previously mentioned perks still remained meta.
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@jesterkind said:
I have to say I disagree, and I think the disagreement stems from the fact that you're only really looking at perks here when 6.1.0 was a gigantic patch that affected much more than just the perks that were changed.
For starters, just to take care of some low hanging fruit, the prestige and bloodweb changes as well as the matchmaking incentives were great for the game and absolutely weren't a failure. Those don't affect the matches themselves, though, so while I do feel it's important to mention them myself here, fair enough on them not being in your post.
Now, you and I disagree on a few of these points, so I think I should lay those disagreements on the table before I get to the real meat of my argument. First, when you talk about the infamous gen-kick meta, you say all three perks were gutted, but I would genuinely argue that's not true. Overcharge barely moved on its own since it was basically never actually good on its own merits, Eruption is still a strong and worthwhile perk, and Call of Brine was more shifted to an information perk instead of a hybrid info/regression perk. That last point might be splitting hairs, though.
You also overstate the tunnelling changes, in my opinion. You say that perks "like" Decisive Strike were nerfed, but it was just DS, that's the only anti-tunnel perk that was nerfed. The other two anti-tunnel perk related changes were buffs, one of which added a new anti-tunnel perk that didn't exist before, and they were on top of a basekit anti-tunnel system that ensured survivors could no longer be downed as soon as their feet touched the floor.
Tunnelling wasn't fully fixed in 6.1.0 and there was an uptick in tunnelling attempts as people adjusted to their new tools, but I think it's unfair to label that a failure. It's still an improvement over where things were before, even considering that the DS nerf was short sighted. It just took people a little while to figure out the best way to use the new tools so things looked worse for a bit.
So, okay, that was a lot of text for my starting disagreements, so I'll try and keep the meat of my response a little shorter to compensate, ha.
Now then, the big stuff. Basekit stuff changed, not just perks, and the things that changed were significantly better done than the problem perk changes. You talk about how 6.1.0 failed to fix there being a regression meta, and I think that's missing the forest for the trees; players are always going to bring slowdown in some form, but that doesn't mean nothing changed. When 6.1.0 made generators longer, the post-hit sprint burst shorter, weapon wipe animations shorter, and break animations shorter on top of also adding actual immediate regression for gen kicks, it succeeded heavily in making slowdown significantly less necessary than it was before. In the current state of the game, you quite sincerely don't need any slowdown to win (unless you get unlucky with a toolbox squad), and as a result, one or two slowdown perks of lower strength than what we used to have is more than enough for the vast majority of players.
Sure, most players are still going to stack slowdown for as long as the game allows them to do that, but that doesn't mean they need to do it. You do somewhat have to evaluate the game separately from overall player trends in these kinds of discussions.
Next, as I mentioned, anti-tunnel basekit exists now after 6.1.0. Before that patch, if the person rescuing you didn't bring Borrowed Time, that's it, you were just downed immediately after unhook and the only defence you had at all was Decisive Strike. The patch did weaken DS too much, that's true, but it still existed and it now existed in tandem with genuine other options, including stuff that isn't strictly anti-tunnel but synergises very well with the anti-tunnel tools that exist, like new Dead Hard and stuff like Lithe.
Finally, for the weakest but still important point, it's important to remember why this patch happened. People were sick of the exact same perks over and over again for literally years, and that was one of the major issues being addressed. Say what you will about the replacements, but the meta picks changed after 6.1.0, on both sides. Survivor slightly less so, but the old meta build of DS/DH/UB/IW wasn't the dominating combo anymore even there.
In closing, it's true that there were a noticeable number of not so well done changes to some perks in 6.1.0. Eruption, Call of Brine, Thanataphobia, Calm Spirit, and Pharmacy weren't done particularly well. That wasn't all that patch 6.1.0 was, though, and a lot of the other changes were badly needed and seriously welcome.
…So much for keeping it shorter. Whoops.
6.1.0 was a gigantic patch that affected much more than just perks that were changed.
To be more specific, Im talking about the meta shake-up… Im going to be talking about the perk meta changes.
Patch 6.1.0 was full of a lot of good changes and QOL updates, and the Prestige rework was really, really damn good in my opinion. But the point of my post is to not talk about those, it's to talk about perk changes… since it's about the meta shake-up specifically.
Also for the sake of brevity I cant really go into a super high amount of detail or talk about every single specific or small change; in fact the original post was longer but I had to trim and change a lot since it was incredibly long and I dont expect anyone to reasonably read it.
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@Nazzzak said:
I was a supporter of it way back when. I think in general their intentions were fine - increase kill rates (successful) and shake up the meta a bit (successful) - but they didn't seem to have a back up plan for anything that didn't work out.
It took them several months (9 months iirc) to address the resulting gen kick meta, for example, which I think is a contributing factor to alot of the negativity we see in the game nowadays. Imagine how many players picked up the game in those several months, who had no idea what killer was like before so as far as they knew that was simply the norm. Then it's suddenly taken away. How many now didn't know how to play without it? and still to this day can't get the same great results for minimum effort that they got back then? I imagine they're still resentful. Actually I know they're still resentful, we hear from them still to this day that that period was fine and survivors were at fault. And yes, they likely fell onto strats like tunnelling as a result.
It feels like since that update the devs have had to slap band aids repeatedly over various leaks that have continuously spouted since.
My main issue is that the Meta Shake-Up did change the perks but did not changed the perk archetypes that were meta so it ultimately fell flat and simply just shifted the issues into a new position.
It did not solve regression being basically necessary, it only changed what perks you were required to run every game. In a similar sense, it didnt shift the Survivor meta that much either, and Dead Hard still became one of the most used perks even after the update.
If you look at is solely "did the perks that were meta shift to other perks?" then yes, it was "successful" in that regard. But in the greater picture of DBD, I feel like it ultimately negatively affected the game in the long run.
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Shouldnt this be filed as a bug/glitch report? Or has it already been filed?
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The animation is the same for all forms since it uses a Phantom version of Dracula to break all obstacles.
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If you went down near a Pallet or Window it was possible to pick the Survivor up before the Killer could reasonably reach them and pick them up or they were forced into an unfavorable situation that they would also lose. Thus an anti-slugging perk was turned into an anti-Killer perk with the change, so it was nerfed in response, similar to what happened with Buckle Up.
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I feel like as Survivor I could stare them straight on and never reveal them meanwhile as Killer I get revealed through walls from miles away.
It definitely has issues, Idk if it has to do with new versus old tilesets, but it definitely has issues.
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@Agt_Scully said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859053#Comment_3859053
This is precisely the problem - there was no longer a lullaby when the Huntress activated Undetectable as in the past. In fact, Undetectable wouldn't be an issue if there was still a lullaby to provide at least a general proximity. But in this game the Huntress was dead silent. I actually thought we were facing Ghost or Shape until after the first hook as there was absolutely no sound whatsoever 🤷♂️
This is precisely the problem - there was no longer a lullaby when the Huntress activated Undetectable as in the past.
This has been a thing for years and is not a problem.
You still hear the lullaby the entire time.
But in this game the Huntress was dead silent
Never had that happen before or ever, I think this might be an issue with your headset or speakers. Either that or file a bug report for such.
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@Agt_Scully said:
Exactly! I just got out of a match in RPD where the Huntress was nearly undetectable the entire game. No lullaby, no terror radius, no red stain. I ran into the Killer multiple times as there is diminished line of sight in RPD as well. I thought the Killer was hacking because they had no undetectable perks (running CI, Nowhere to Hide, Lethal Pursuer, Iron Maiden). Needless to say the team got wrecked. We basically faced a Scratched Mirror Myers with increased speed and a ranged attack. Thats so OP 👎️
No lullaby
If Huntress is Undetectable they still have a Lullaby. In fact, that's literally the whole point of the Lullaby mechanic, to still reveal the Killer's rough location while Undetectable.
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@Rulebreaker said:
While we like the buffs to luck, wouldn't someone just throw something like a jar of salty lips as "insurance" to go to next?
That is a possibility but at least it is going to cost them since they would be forced to bring in a respective offering every game. At the very least, it serves to not make it free every game or require them to bring perks/offerings to do so.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
I like it. Survivors get trapped. (Carry snowballs. Problem solved)
I mean… Snowballs do solve the issue but they also make you insane visible as well. The animation around your character also makes it harder to checkspot corners without revealing your location, since it naturally makes you have to take corners further from the edge and limits visibility.
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@bjorksnas said:
Boon illumination also increases it by 10% but only when you have an active boon (which is bad)
Ngl I forgot about that effect from Boon: Illumination… I dont think it helps either, it unironically is more depressing when you consider that.