HugTheHag
HugTheHag
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Oh, you sweet summer child.
Even with communication I get robbed !
Before the game :
Me, to my duo pal : Okay so remember how I have We'll Make It and never take it out of my build because it's a great perk
Him, watching a video : Yeah sure
In game, as a survivor is hooked :
Him : unhooks in my face sorry, forgot
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311665#Comment_3311665
I love playing Legion, but they can be miserable to face. People have twigged onto that their kit allows them to very easily tunnel and circumvent BT.
Doctor is...blaah. Interesting kit, but his shocks have a weird latency to them that make them incredibly unreliable.
I do love Hag.
Pinhead is another snowbally killer.
Yeah, I know they can drag things out a little, especially if they're bringing Thana or other slowdown for example. I personally prefer short & sweet with some aura reading and Jolt as my only slowdown.
But when I go against Legion, I never feel like I'm being tunneled. The fact that they go around hitting everyone makes me feel less of a target, and since I run Aftercare these days I generally know where they are from who is getting hit, and know where to run to evade KI.
I probably just haven't run yet into a really vicious Legion. I used to see a lot of Legions before and around 6.1.n but since a couple of months I've literally seen more Hags (to my absolute pleasure, but wish there were still some Legions around).
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I mean.
Surely you can understand it's unpleasant to be tunneled. So you understand that they're mad. It doesn't mean you have to stop, or that you should. It's just normal for them to be mad and normal for you to think it's the logical thing to do.
Everyone who plays killer (or survivor for that matter) has their own code of conduct, and they don't owe anyone else to play differently. I personally choose to play very fair as killer, as that's how the game is the most fun to me.
Similarly, I have my own etiquette as survivor to do things to make the killer's experience nicer, whether that be not bringing rare items, not being rude, or offering a sacrifice if they're in for a rough 0K. (Killers don't often accept it, but the offer is always there).
Everyone tailors their own experience of the game for it to be most enjoyable to them. But that doesn't mean that the other party can't have feelings, rational or not, about the way their opponents (and teammates) are playing.
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@Xendritch said:
1. It's not taking the game hostage it's literally the only viable move for survival if there's more than one gen left and it's a 2v1.
2. Killers drag games out all the time slugging for the 4k. I don't see how this is different.
I agree I'm not a fan of it occurring but BHVR should create a new mechanic for 2v1 situations. Hatch is too powerful with two survivors left in the sense 4ks would never happen but maybe give survivors a mini sole survivor where they do gens 50% faster so there's a chance doing gens is actually viable with two people? Maybe 50% isn't the number but could be tweaked until the right number is found.
I do agree that something has to be done to make 2v1 less of a complete condamnation, but it has been said before by the devs that this situation is indeed considered hostage taking.
The survivors are not trying to progress the game by any means, and only hiding around.
In the case of slugging for the 4K, it's unpleasant, but at least the survivor has a timer after which they're dead and hatch appears. So slugging them is still progressing the game.
I don't say that I think it's fair, just, that's how it works.
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@Katzengott said:
DBD - the only multiplayer game i know that punishes you really bad for winning.
And tbf, i think SBMM is never a good thing, in any multplayer game.
What would be better ? Genuine question.
I don't play any other pvp games as that's usually not my thing, so I'm not familiar with other methods of matchmaking.
Beyond the fact that the softcap is too low, and matchmaking a bit too lenient when queues get long, which are not inherent to sbmm but the way it is implemented, why is it not good ?
Feels to me that it puts sweats against sweats, which I think is fair enough ?
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@MarKrTheDemigod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311711#Comment_3311711
The Third Seal could still be somewhat useful becacuse it stays on the player until the Hex is removed or until you hit others too many times, but the status effect can get applied in other ways, most often addons, and there it is pretty useless. Mostly because the effect is applied only for some duration. E.g. the Twins have an addon that applies Blind for (iirc) 20 seconds after Victor pounces on someone. Perhaps it could have some very niche use but generally 20 seconds of blind is pretty incosequential. The Pig has an addon that applies Blind for as long as the player has the RBT on them, and it doesn't hide the auras of the Jigsaw boxes, so again, pretty pointless.
I think the Blind status should receive some additional effect. As it has been suggested before - it would be cool if it hid the red stain. This would actually impact also swf. It could also lower generator repair speed by some %. Or it could make Skill check windows smaller or something.
I agree that on some addons it's pointless, especially if the duration is very short.
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@jajay119 said:
Blindness removes the red stain and terror radius so the killer has a better chance of getting to the survivor unnoticed.
It also removes aura perks so you can't see specific locations.
It will still do all of this. Being able to see someone is on a gen or being chased won't change that. You still won't be able to tell how close the killer is or where anyone else is.
You're thinking of Obliviousness !
Blindness actually only removes the ability to see auras. =)
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@Bravobro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311783#Comment_3311783
ITS Not so easy, every Killer from me is on high MMR. If i Play 1 hour a week i can Play balanced Games in a year With every Killer?
They've recently made it so that if you don't play for an extended period of time (I don't know precisely how much time that is, and if you're already qualifying for it) your mmr is more flexible. Your lose much more mmr when you lose a game, until it feels you caught up to balanced games. I don't know if it takes into acount only that you've logged onto the game or if you've actually played said killer recently.
But yeah, if all the killers you typically play are on high mmr, and you can't play that much, I'd advise picking one your like most and focusing on playing them. With some time, games will get more manageable.
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It's pretty often on survivor during daytime and on killer during evenings for me.
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Your mmr as killer depends on how many survivors you manage to kill.
If you're killing 2, it's a draw, your mmr doesn't change. If you kill 3 or 4, it increases. If you kill 0 or 1, it decreases.
Given enough games with 1K or less, your mmr will eventually get back down to a level that's better suited for you to derust a little. =)
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On one hand, it's annoying (though very rare).
On the other, I can understand why it happens. At 2v1, anything more than a couple gen left is literally impossible to do unless you or the teammate are extremely good at chasing, which is typically not the case.
From there, it's self-preservation to hope the other survivor gets found first. Why should you forfeit your potential escape bonus for a complete stranger who might have done nothing all game ? Or who might sell you out if given the chance ?
I don't know what can change for this kind of situation not to happen. Maybe make the escape bonus less important, and instead buff the points you get while actually doing stuff during the game ?
Until something is changed, I'll take one for the team and walk up to the killer to sacrifice me so that other dude gets their chance.
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I don't think they can, because there needs to be hard poof. Otherwise people could do false reports.
Even investigating the accounts that get a lot of reports for hacking could lead to false accusations coordinated around content creators, for example.
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Blindness is underrated.
I used to play Hex Third Seal a lot, and for some reason survivors underestimate it and it often stayed up.
Blindness counters Windows, which lots of survivors rely on.
Counters OoO as well, though that's more niche.
Counters Alert, Fogwise, good aura perks.
It also prevents from seeing the aura of the hooked survivor, so if you did not pay attention to where they were hooked, good luck finding them. Even on comms, unless you're next to a significant landmark, it wastes a lot of time to go look for the hooked survivor.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311693#Comment_3311693
It definitely does not do that.
I think, right now and not counting the issue I had yesterday, no more than 1 person has gotten out of the gates against me since the 15th, iirc.
Idk if other people share my experience but that's what i've got.
It does not do that consistently, no. And the softcap being so low is part of the problem, I'd wager.
But my point still stands. High mmr killers (or killer as a role) are not supposed to win consistently (through "normal" gameplay aka no early tunnel).
Using sweaty tactics like tunneling to maintain a high win rate only makes sure they'll keep facing increasingly hard teams, as it will now take more losses (which they don't take well) to go back to a level they're better adjusted to.
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I mran... you're not supposed to win consistently.
That's the point of mmr ? Putting you in close matches you will win or lose roughly half the time.
If the game was balanced for killer to win consistently at high mmr, it would be damn near unplayable everywhere else.
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Really cool that they buffed a speficic playstyle they had in mind for him !
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I'll preface this by saying that I haven't played all killers, only about 6 or 7 of them, with only 3 I play regularly (Hag, Legion, Ghostface).
So some of those will be from playing against them more than playing them.
1- Legion : They're just so fun to use !! I know people hate them, but for me there's nothing more pleasant than zooming around slashing and chaining. Their addons are cool as well.
2- Doctor : I've only played him a little yet, but he's my favourite killer to go against. I just think his kit is super cool, his addons are a mess to read but awesome (I love the fact that some affect the red stain, or make you hear the chase music outside of chase, it's like spicy undetectable).
3- Spirit : I've played her a little bit and plan on playing more of her, she is just really fun to use !
4- Hag : From playing her she feels a touch too clunky, too many counters to her ability and without it she is useless, but from a survivor perspective I appreciate that she is one of the few killers with actual counters. Still fun to use (for me), so she goes on the list.
Honorable mentions : I would have said Nemesis, as even with his issues he's really fun to play as and against (when not tunneling lol), but yeah, zombies AI, funky hitboxes and infection speedboost could take some loking at.
5- I think Pinhead. Never played him, often die to him, but he feels at a nice spot in terms of balance and probably fun to use !
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I think it could be viable, just make it so that you discover who you'll be playing in the lobby and get 1min to design your build.
That way you'd also be able to walk away from killers you don't like without penalty by "dodging" yourself.
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Pretty sure both can happen at the same time, a stun and a hit, if they're timed simultaneously.
I tend to lunge through pallets and often get the hit AND a stun.
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Always a joy seeing all the new creative bugs that happen after updates. That's the kind of stuff that can't happen on purpose. I genuinely love it X)
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That would be a good idea, though I don't think it's gonna make people who give up on hook stay for much longer. At least it'd be less of a pain for those who stick around.
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Probably wouldn't notice if Twins got removed, to be honest.
Would I care ? Eh. I do own the DLC as on principle (and in customs) they're fun, so I'm curious about the rework they'll be getting someday. Hope it's a fun one !
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I'm especially glad that they chose a specific playstyle to buff, because he's already good at double teaming survivors at loops. Now he can be a llittle bit more versatile.
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If you have her and the addon necessary, Hag with Scarred Hand. If you NEED to put two addons, then slap Rusty Shackles on top of that to make the second spot extremely useless.
Then, Red Forest offering. You only have 10 traps, can't teleport, and you're a 110 killer on the biggest open map of the game. =)
Then, the build :
- Distressing : make your TR bigger so that people hear you coming
- Deerstalker : wouldn't want to not see the survivors you won't down !
- Hoarder : I just think your idea is neat, so I'm stealing it
- Stridor : hearing them better won't make you catch em faster !
I would have put Insidious, because standing still is not exactly what you need when you can't teleport, but it'd be too easy to camp with her if she does end up catching someone.
It's probably not the worst killer build as a whole, and people who are good with Scarred Hand might make it work somehow, but it's definitely gonna be a ride.
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The new "New" looks great, much easier to read ! =)
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310353#Comment_3310353
This is the thing I am a bit worried about. IMO the 1 second shaved off if every great Skill Check was hit is nothing that warrants a change and the 20% stronger wiggle at base can be roughly the same. But paired with Boil Over and if there is some stuff lying around or doors which need to be passed, it can be more annoying than the potential of shaving off 1 second of Wiggle Progress.
True. I think the time being shorter was good, in the extent that it rarely did anything (at least for me) unless in a coordinated bodyblocking effort, which might have freed me regardless.
The bigger wiggles might be more annoying, or equate to the lost second, on indoor maps particularly.
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Can't wait to see how it will work with Boil Over.
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Damn, that sucks.
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I like that Diversion is like, the last perk I thought of, and your explanation is "I mean it would be pretty funny". 10/10, understandable, have a good day XD
I've said it before, but I think that Grim Embrace could go basekit just like it is, and have a stronger version as a perk. In my opinion, if a perk can be deactivated throughout the game (like boons, hexes, and perks that only happen once), it better have a damn good effect.
For Shattered Hope, I think it would weirdly be too strong to be basekit. I know, it's too weak to bring as a perk, but I think killers having a 100% counter to boons, that take 2 seconds to snuff out and destroy permanently, is too strong for basekit. Survivors can take out killer hexes permanently, but it takes 16 seconds focused just on that , which can be interrupted and reset. Killer can snuff the boon immediately.
So, in my opinion, either Shattered Hope is basekit, but takes a significant time to remove the boon (which does not scream "unstoppable force"), either it takes two stomps to break the totem permanently. Partially broken totems would halve the radius of the boon. As a buff to the actual perk, Shattered Hope would be a killer version of Counterforce (just... Force I guess), that allows you to pre-break dull totems, to completely counter boons (and get a bp score in, let's say, deviousness because it's planning in advance).
(I also think it would be fair if killer could replace a hex, at the cost of time, like booning a totem. That would allow them to choose a better totem spot, which currently is RNG, and also some perks would benefit from being placed a second time, like Third Seal or Blood Favor or Ruin. Tokens would not carry over to prevent Devour Hope from being too opressive)
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I don't think all of those nerfs were warranted. Definitely the special attacks, but the addons I'm less sure of. I mean, they could turn out interesting ? I like killers with varied effects that change their gameplay rather than just number tweaks. But since I can't play Nurse anyway, that only affects me so far as Nurses actually play them.
Nurse was already really fun to go against before (I'm very average at survivor, so I face average Nurses : rarely babies, but rarely sweats), so I guess it can go both ways. Either it'll add impredictability (like Hag with most of her purple and pink addons) or it will be "whatever" effects that will feel terrible to play and the lack of range will really hurt.
Either way, it should definitely feel better going against her in higher mmr.
I don't think removing part of her mobility (which, granted, is quite good as is) is the best idea considering she's rather slow ? Maybe she could get a haste effect when recovering her blinks ? Kind of like Soldier's Puttee for Huntress (which I genuinely cannot believe is pink btw). Or be able to walk forward when in recovery instead of being immobile.
Either way, the players who used to rely heavily on exposed perks and range addons will struggle for a while, but I don't think Nurse is down that bad. She'll likely still be a little stronger than most killers.
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I've gone against one team like this and watched a friend of mine go against one as well, and they were actually pretty good sports. They were just in for the fun, not really expecting to do gens or get out alive. I'm pretty friendly so I switched to fun mode with my team, but my friend went against them playing normally (though being more relaxed because he knew it wouldn't be a serious game) and they were super chill even after a couple of them died, very wholesome in endgame chat.
I know this isn't the norm, unfortunately.
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I mean... I can understand both point of views.
I typically don't dodge high prestiges (high for me being 40 and higher, but I've seen more P90+ than P40-80) or change my builds, I chalk them up as mmr oopsies, and worst case scenario it's gonna be instructive. I definitely expect them to give me a run for my money though !
I'm a very average killer, so I might not give them a lot of attention unless the gens are progressing slow enough that I have time for a long chase. If I've had a few hooks and only a couple of gens popped, I'll seek out the high prestige for a chase. Sometimes they're surprisingly not that much better than my usual survivors, which is debatably concerning when I know I'm on low mmr from all the friendly games end up doing.
Definitely makes me less wary of them now !
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My friend is a Nemesis main who does nor tunnel, camp, or use this build. I don't remember his precise build but he's pretty much married to Lethal Pursuer so I think there's two aura reading in there.
However, he's still on a pretty low mmr, so I don't know how conclusive your research on him would be.
(He does complain every time we're facing a Nemy who's tunneling (so 3/4 of those we see), about how he's disappointed in them as a Nemesis player.)
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I haven't struggled with that recently, that I can remember. However maybe certain maps are worse than others? I know Midwich particularly can be rough
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As it is Ruin should not even be a hex, at this point.
I think most gen regression perks are fine, it's rough if they're stacked, but they shouldn't deactivate. As a matter of fact, I think no perk that isn't a hex / boon should be permanently deactivated at any point in the game unless they've accomplished their purpose (like Corrupt deactivating once the killer gets a first down, or Unbreakable having been used).
And if they do get deactivated permanently, they better get a really good effect. Corrupt is nice because it allows setup killers to setup, and an early down from other killers. Sometimes both. On the other hand, Grim Embrace does not nearly have a good enough effect for its requirements and the fact that it only happens once.
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That's... Quite a lot of expectations for that one midchapter.
I don't think we'll see nearly as much as you've numbered, but a few of them would already be nice.
I think they would have teased bigger changes in advance if it was to be on a similar scale as 6.1. I think it'll most likely be a few perks getting looked at, icons, Eyrie, but not much else. The Twins rework would be super nice ! But I'm not expecting much more than what we've been shown.
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If planted 3gens were to be prevented through base kit, then Hag better get some love. Keeping a web is a whole part of her playstyle, thanks to her snail speed and multiple counters.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308535#Comment_3308535
I'm way too soft too. I really enjoy playing killer but I feel bad when I eliminate people. Such a strange predicament.
A couple of days ago I was playing a game where I decided just to hook twice and let them go. I was goofing around and chasing a Meg while this Vittorio was running along side clicking his flashlight at her. I think they had all worked out I wasn't going to kill. I hooked her thinking I had only hooked her once. I must have confused the hell out of the rest because they went from goofing around with me to no one going near me for the rest of the match. I felt so bad about it.
It's happened to me before to miscount my hooks and accidentally kill one of them ! It's such a bad feeling haha. Like broken trust. I don't always feel bad when I eliminate people, but I do when I was goofing with them and miscounted. Or if suddenly they don't unhook the last person... it's happened before and I can't do anything about it, but it just feels bad because you never know if it was a swf giving one kill or if it was a solo being abandoned. =(
Though not the worst feeling that I've had, that spot is reserved for that Doctor I went against the other day. Didn't get a single hook for the longest time, and while in chase with me, I fatfingered my keyboard real bad at a pallet and teabagged when I wanted to spam space (crouch is keyed to c on my kb), then finally downed the pallet in front of me, then vaulted, and the poor soul still missed his attack and I got away with it. I felt so bad I surrendered the chase and let him hook me. That absolute chad didn't even hit me on hook for it or stay to camp (1 gen left that was near 100%), he just... moved on.
It's on those days I wish thumbsup gave rewards to players, because I really wish I could give him something to apologize for that ridiculous display ! X)
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308579#Comment_3308579
It wouldnt even have to go that far, if every perk had an assigned strength value you could then factor that into MMR calculations.
It could apply to everything killer, perks, addons, items, offerings, SWF, and then certain things would multiply together.
Lets take COB, Overcharge, Eruption, Jolt,
Lets say each one has a value on their own of +100 to MMR rank so they would be +400, but then because of how they synergise you would add another +200 synergy factor.
You already have a set MMR with each killer so you lets say you play nurse and your base MMR is 1400, that build would put you to 2000, lets add on double range so +6m we will add another 150 and +4 will add 100 plus a synergy of 100, lets throw in a midwich offering of +100 for a killer sided map.
So now that nurse with a MMR of 1400, goes all the way up to being matched at 2450 due to the strength of their build.
Other things could even lower your MMR, say the base MMR assumes a brown yellow Item with no add ons, so no item would be -100, or no addons on a killer would be -200, No Mither -200, No exhaustion perk -100, party bottles on clown -100.
It would take some time to put together better values as this is just a quick and dirty example, and something would have to be done changing the MMR soft caps and things but it is totally doable.
There may be some weird stuff with switching builds, but that can be handled by only allowing the total MMR value of a build to drop to not gain an advantage.
So say lightborn is a +50 perk if that match loads and there are 4 flashlight Nurse would be able to drop jolt for lightborn, but if they had lightborn and there were no flashlights they wouldnt be able to swap in jolt because jolt has a higher MMR value, so instead they could switch to another +50 or lower perk like deerstalker.
Another thing you could do is alter the value of perks on a per killer basis, like giving certain Aura perks (BBQ and Chili) a higher value on nurse/blight than they would on trapper.
I think that sounds a little bit complicated, but it's sure food for thought !
The overall issue I can see with the way you're going about it is that it assumes the perks can carry the killer to a very high level. Let's say I'm a new killer who happens to start with Nemesis and have his base perks, my mmr value would be through the roof because of Eruption and I'd have a terrible time learning because I'd be against really good survivors.
Something I can also see happening with what you're offering is that some perks would become overused because they're bad, as mmr weights. Let's say if you want to play Jolt and Pain Res, but don't want to be carried to a super high mmr, you could take Deerstalker as a -150 to balance it out.
So yeah, I wouldn't go about directly boosting mmr. It would be unfair to new players and very unbalanced in terms of skill.
But just, maybe, if your survivor build is constituted of perks that are each above X% of use among survivors (like, let's say, DH, Adrenaline, Coh and PT which are all in 20% or more survivor builds on average), then you'll be matched against killers that have perks that are above X% of use among killers (like PR, Eruption or CoB). It would be taken from the pool of players of your mmr brackets, maybe a little more lenient but not much.
However, if you're playing a niche build with perks that are not used a lot, then you'll be facing more creative builds on the killer's side.
It would not be all or nothing, it would take into account if you have 1, 2, 3 or 4 overused perks.
Just thinking right now, not exact science haha.
But that'd be neat in my opinion.
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C'est prévu à l'avenir, tout comme le fait de pouvoir donner des compétences aux bots !
Il va juste falloir être patients =)
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Actual perk matchmaking would be so good.
Matching meta against meta and relaxed builds against each other.
Would probably be too much to be actually doable, but I can always dream.
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Survivor without perks sound like a real chore.
I'd probably play for the experience, but might switch to killer pretty fast as that way I'd at least have a fun power to use.
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Similar to the opinion presented above, I don't necessarily disagree with an action speed cap (I think it's a good idea to not have to nerf perks and still give freedom to create varied builds, without it being too busted), but I genuinely do not think killers would tunnel less.
You just can't trust that killers who tunnel currently will see an easy road and not take it, out of the goodness of their hearts, just because their opponents are nerfed a bit. That's very innocent.
If there is something to be done to nerf survivors so that killers have an easier time, then tunneling must also be hard removed, otherwise it's just going to be more efficient and a guaranteed win.
I think action speed caps could be the way to go (would prevent some amount of cheating as well!), with rework of survivor items to make it less "all of nothing", as well as power-related buffs & QoL to lower tier or unused killers, and slight nerfs to higher tier killer's add-ons and power.
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I'm too soft for my own good, so any tunnel or bleedout instance in my killer games are accidental. If my 5th frenzy hit is the last unhooked, well... it happens ! I'll apologize if the survivors bring it up. They usually don't.
I've done a couple of accidental full bleedouts when I started playing killer, as I was playing Hag with her base kit for a while and didn't realize Third Seal prevents survivors from seeing their downed teammates. I'd down a survivor, someone would set off a trap, and I'd be teleporting on instinct and be too disoriented to remember where I left the slug.
I eventually took the hex out of my builds because I felt bad for how strong it was against solos.
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I feel like there's already struggle to make good perks as is, let alone 3 variants of each...
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The best is the enemy of the good. I don't typically go for them by fear of messing up the timing and losing progression...
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I do it, but not because of the bloodweb (i don't mind it taking time).
It's usually because I'm a social player and no one is online to play survivor with and I don't have an available friend to chat with while playing killer.
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DCs are often a depip for survivors as well, since the game is pretty much lost once a couple people leave, and killers will usually try not to depip and kill the remaining survs.
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I do notice it but usually dont dodge. I've seen a couple of P100 or close to it, and I'll play it out. Worse case scenario, they're super good and I'll learn from them !