HoodedWildKard
HoodedWildKard
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377336#Comment_3377336
I said this another thread
If low level players don't know how to counter dh and the high level players are just bored of playing against it why does it need to stay? Everytime I watch a good streamer regardless of their main role they say "dead hard" in the most monotonous way with a completely blank face. The perk has been meta for 6 years, dbd players need to understand it's way overdue to be f tier for a bit.
I have to admit this I agree with. Imo DH itself mechanically on paper is fine, but I certainly can't disagree that it is far overused. It's a shame they can't find a way to limit usage without nerfing it into the ground. Like limiting it to 2 players per match or something.
It reminds me of the tunneling/facecamping argument. They are legitimate tactics, but unpleasant to play against. Except DH is an issue at high mmr rather than low and is more counterable than tunneling/face camping. Plus it depends if ypu find DH unpleasant to play against, which personally I dont, but then I counter it a lot. If I swung into it more I'd probably hate it too. Which is kind of the point of my thread, to see how many people can counter it versus swing into it constantly.
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@Tostapane said:
if a single perk will carry survivors so much, then for default it should be COMPLETELY changed... also game killer side? don't make me laugh, i'll gladly give you the match that i did yesterday, then we can talk again if you feel that this game is killer side...
It only carries the game if killers can't counter it and simply swing into it constantly which is avoidable. And you do realise for a game with any balance killers are going to have "bad games" 40-50% of the time.
If a surv is good at chase they are a nightmare but again if you can counterplay them it's easy enough to win. I went against a team with 2 focussed on bullying one genrushing and one flipping between the two tactics. bodyblocking, head on playing and flashlighting constantly. And I got still got a 4k. And all this with a subpar build on demo. Not a particularly strong killer. And the funny thing? I only had 2 useful perks, pain res and nowhere to hide. Nothing to help in chase. Aside from that I was running distressing and thrill of the hunt. All were running DH and I swung into it once. And I was just M1ing, maybe hit like 1 shred.
Still one gen left and practically untouched by the time I killed the other 3 hunted down the gen rusher.
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I like the sound of it, basically basekit spine chill.
I'm less enthusiastic about killer getting something similar to "visually" hear injured survs. I don't think they need that, they alreadybhave blood trails.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376983#Comment_3376983
If a survivor catches on that a killer doesn't fall for easy Dead Hard baits, they can start faking it to psych the killer out. Many survivors will suddenly change directly towards the killer mid-chase to make them swing on impulse and Dead Hard, but if the killer isn't falling for that, they'll start juking towards the killer but not Dead Harding at all. They'll do this repeatedly until one of them makes the wrong call and loses the stand-off. I see it happen a lot in killer gameplay streams and videos, maybe you should try watching them.
Sounds like a risky tactic. Because if killer pauses the hit and simply stays on the surv tgen they can basic swing at any time, they are just handing killer a down.
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@Justa335i said:
A simple "sense" perk is what he is suggesting. When you are showed via killer instinct, the perk lights up. That's it. For "veteran" players, we know when killer instinct is showing us (legion frenzy, Nemi Syringe, Wesker Spray, etc.), but newer players don't.
I 100% think this is a good idea. All of us with thousands of hours playing and browsing the forums seem to easily forget about the new players. For reference, there are 228 perks in Dead by Daylight and 31 Killers with unique powers / addons. This is a lot to learn when joining the game, and a lot of times new players are left with the "how / why did that just happen?" It is easy for us to be condescending and say look it up, but that wont actually happen. All they will do is get frustrated and uninstall. Adding another perk like this will be trash for experienced players, but will help new players understand what the hell is going on.
TLDR: Without more people coming and playing DBD, the game will die out quicker. Any perks that help new players understand what's going on WITHOUT hurting the killer I'm always down for.
This.
The game is pretty unforgiving for new players anyway. And I've had a couple of new players wonder how killer knew where they were when playing legion (who is a noob stomper killer for sure) and when they've accidentally revealed ghost face.
Like i said, I don't want a hard counter. Just an information perk.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376494#Comment_3376494
You just need to not swing at the first available opportunity.
Unless you meet those survivors who are so deep into the Dead Hard mindgame that they will fake DH before actually using it. Several times. Then you're back to Square One.
I don't get how you fake a dead hard. That might be overthinking it.
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@KSzerker said:
Not sure what the high risk of DH is. If you're good you will land it most of the time.
Because if it doesn't work you get downed. Versus most other exhaustion perks where you get a speed boost so no chance you'll waste it.
Plus you're not only relying on your own skill when trying to hit DH. You're also relying on the killer to not counter play it. Which is kind of my point. You can't guarantee that you'll force killer to swing into it apart from maybe at pallets.
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@ImABubbaMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3375961#Comment_3375961
Speed boost? Distance isn't gained with dh anf if it is i didn't know
Yh you get the normal speed boost for taking a hit. You just don't go down.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376334#Comment_3376334
-"it's nothing unusual for me to see (and beat) full teams of 40+prestiges."
One of the people I met through discord recently has 300 hours and is prestige 100.
-"If killer knows what buttons to press they have tthe power to control the game against all but the absolute best swfs."
I have gotten to the point where generally speaking that's all I end up playing against every game. Most of the killer roster can't handle that.
-"I'm probably not in the top 1% or whatever but my mmr is definitely high"
If you are smashing everyone easily then maybe you need to stream. The only demo player I know is Bronx. He plays extremely nice and wins a lot of his demo gains (but his chat knows that underneath he is a hidden Nemesis main). When he gets that killer SWF team he gets smashed because he never tunnels or camps.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376468#Comment_3376468
Spirit was too strong when she had collision with survivors mid phase. Every change after that was unnecessary for balance. We would see a night and day difference in the use of Boons if killers could break the bones base kit (even before they got booned). We would see a similar difference in hex use if killers could rekindle them indefinitely unless all bones were broken. Nobody plays spirit anymore practically because they basically ruined her kit.
There are two "fair" killers in DBD : Nurse/Blight. They are the only two killers with a complete kit that can handle SWF and every map in the game. Compare this to trapper who is basically completely shut down if there is no grass. Compare this to the Pig - the map introduced with that killer 100% shuts her down.
There is essentially one map in the game that is strong for killers and I can't understand why survivors would ever use Mary's letter to take them there.
In my opinion there are two fair maps : Rancid Abattoir and Wreckers yard. Both have small floorplans and a limited number of pallets that are all strong. Both maps have multiple places where a killer can three gen. This is what makes a fair map for 100% of the killer cast. What disqualifies coal tower is the fact that too many tiles get linked together to make "uber tiles" where you can loop for a long time without using up any resources (this can sometimes happen on Iron Works in the corner near shack). The main building is shack on Wreckers yard and the Abattoir is actually very fair with breakable walls.
A terrible examples of breakable walls are Badham/Dead Dog. Punching holes in Badham makes the map better for survivors unless you are Huntress/Trickster. Dead Dog has a main building with a semi infinite loop unless the upstairs and downstairs walls (everyone knows which 2) are broken. Never touch any of the other walls unless you want to make the building stronger.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376547#Comment_3376547
-"Yeah, it'd be swell if killers had a perk like Dead Hard that could just undo the entire pvp interaction in-loop when they get outplayed"
Got you covered Fam : Gen Hard. Once per game the killer can Press E on an uncompleted generator. When that generator gets completed it reverts to 0% and can never be completed (effectively reducing the map generator count by 1 total).
I know prestige isn't necessarily an indicator of skill, but as a correlation most high prestige player will be better. I don't think many new players prestige 100 a single character to the exclusion of all else.
And agreed some of the killer roster are pretty weak. The only "weak" killer I play with any regularity is deathslinger and on that I only play a meme all hex build. Those games are about 50/50.
And as for the streamer, not tunneling/camping is hamstringing yourself. I very rarely camp with demo, i will usually tunnel if survs are genrushing hard. My iri demo build is insane, i never feel out of control with that build, both iri addons, corrupt, to set up my portals, pain res+dms for the regression and locking down gens that are nearly popped. 4th perk I float and switch up, light born if I see 2 or more beamers, iron maiden to stop people trying to hide from the aura reads, sloppy or jolt sometimes if I feel like it. It's a filthy build and if I try while using it the game is easy. tried it in a custom against some friends of mine who are a very experienced swf with 100+ days each and play together a lot. and I absolutely shredded them.
My other build is for when I want to chill, I still "win" about 75-80% of my games with it, and it's just a bp farming build really. Distressing, hex TOTH, bbq and a regressions perk usually jolt or pain res so I have some control of the game. Add ons rotten pumpkin and rat's tail, plus i usually bring streamers or envelope. Good for BP I'll get 1.6k for a single shred hit. And I still usually perform well, though I'll always release one or two at the end after farming with them for a bit.
Out of interest do you know if there's a way players can check their dbd mmr?
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If it's a 3v1 with 4 or 5 gens left then there's no chance and I will often just nope out on hook or maybe try appealing to killer for a farming game.
3 gens is unlikely but doable. 1/2 gens is very possible, and I'll try my best in thise situations.
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@MrMori said:
I just despise waiting it out anytime a survivor is injured, not Exhausted, and hasn't shown another Exhaustion perk. And that happens a lot.
I'm bored of it. Can't even swing at em. Feels bad.
You don't have to be too hesitant with it. You just need to not swing at the first available opportunity. If you go for an optimistic lunge them you are far more likely to get DHd. But if you're right up on the surv and pause for 1 sec, then do a basic swing, you maximise your chance of nailing the down.
It doesn't take long and a quick basic swimg is impossible to react to based on animations/reflex.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3375786#Comment_3375786
-"You play killer right and you dominate the game."
This is low MMR talk no offense.
You split your games over at least 8 killers so none has reached 1600 MMR so you aren't shunting every killer you own to 1200 MMR minimum. You are playing easy mode. Wake up and pick one killer and play 50 games in a row. You will be like : "oh".
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3375833#Comment_3375833
Otz got most of his winstreaks before MMR existed. He "cheated" on the artist sreak by zooming the last 3rd when MMR was turned off. Is he a good player? Yes but you need to view those streaks with asterisks.
A streak should be like this : you play 50 games in a row with that killer and no breaks between. Being able to swap killers lets you abuse some of the holes in the MMR system. I could for example only play games where I play vs 4 solo players on steam. Anything else I dodge. And what if I only played after 4am when there are 0 SWF's until at least noon the next day? Speain is about 8 hours ahead of me and I remember otz doing his win streaks at 6-7pm my time.
But I digress - The point isn't about how many times in a row you can win. The point is when you raise your MMR enough you're going to cross a line you can never go back over. Once you hit 1600 for the first time it will forever limit how low your Killer MMR can go. And that's complete BS.
"There are some tough games sometimes, sure, but these are only against coordinated SWFs with 1000+ hours, and that's pretty rare"
If SWF were rare it might be fine but it isn't. We know the last time they gave us metrics that more than 50% of people played survivor in a SWF and that was before the tunneling epidemic. I suspect it's closer to 60-70% now.
Also as for tournament limitations.... Survivor is always massively more limited than killer except the most extreme of cases that are like - just bring whatever.
Actually i ramped my mmr pretty quickly early on. I played demo exclusively for a long time to get good with it. And i had that thing where I hit a wall with killer early because I'd 4k stomped so many weak solo q teams and was getting matched against very experienced players. After grinding that and learning how to counter perks like dead hard, flashlight and bodyblocking those teams started to lose against me.
On xbox I can't inspect most players playtime, only other xbox users, but the ones I do see often have in excess of 100 days play time. And it's nothing unusual for me to see (and beat) full teams of 40+prestiges. Very often obviously swf'd up, working together for bodyblocks/flashlights, genrushing while I'm in chase. I have to work at it for sure, the games aren't easy, but they aren't too much of a struggle either. I know where to pressure to force a 3 gen. If killer knows what buttons to press they have tthe power to control the game against all but the absolute best swfs.
Obvs I don't know the exact numbers for my mmr, and I'm probably not in the top 1% or whatever but my mmr is definitely high. I'm still seeing players with over 5 times my playtime regularly. Don't think I'd be getting that at low mmr.
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@ImABubbaMain said:
There are scenarios where dh is unavoidable.
When your running around a pallet and the survivor is within swing distance. If you swing, the surv has enough distance between from you to be able to dh from reaction. So if you swing you eat a dh. If you dont swing then they will make the pallet and still have dh.
Sometimes when you come around a corner and a surv is there people will instinctively swing. This is just human nature and so will happen sometimes.
At a dropped unsafe pallet given the loop is big enough. If you swing to one side you eat a dh and if you dont swing because you know they have dh the have enough time to vault off reaction. This one is avoidable but will waste time and sometimes will get you
Some killer powers are rendered useless because of dh. Wesker dash can be dead harded with reaction time unless hes right up next to you and so can demos shred. There are many other killers that suffer from this
Then swing into it, if surv has you in that position then take the option thatvhelps you the most. if the surv drops pallet after then it's basically like a predrop, they waste the dh speed boost during the animation and they have a deep wound. Survs can force it at a pallet but it requires damn good play. And people should be rewarded for good play.
I'm not saying survs never hit DH. Because they do, or no one would complain about it, it'd be another dead perk for survivors.
My issue is people calling for it to be removed/nerfed into oblivion. Because game balance simply doesn't need that. Killers already have a 60% kill rate with DH seeing such wide usage. It's counterable, requires skill to use and doesn't affect games as much as many killer mains claim. It's a good perk for sure. But not a broken one. And a lot of killer mains want to turn it into another useless perk that doesn't get used because it doesn't benefit survs. There are already enough perks like that.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
the thing is survivors have figured out how to make new dh better then old dh in certain situations. old dh you would get to a spot then dh to pallet and window and the killer couldn't do anything about it it was a free pallet drop or vault. now dh is used in the same situation but closer and now if you try to make the hit at a pallet the survivor doesn't drop it but speeds off to a new loop. we're are back to dh been a lose lose situation where there is no counter play to it, if you wait it out the survivor gets the pallet and off to the next loop if you swing then they save the pallet and they are off to the next loop.
Pallets I agree with. But that's kinda niche. Vaults I've been dropping a lot of survs on vaults recently, and dh plays on vaults are risky as all hell, you have to predict the swing flawlessly, because vaults take so long and it's so easy to hit a surv on or through a vault, if you wiff the dh you are going down.
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@irnbru said:
Of course you have never played against a 4 man SWF that use dead hard the most efficient way possible. Probably never had a real loop in his life LMAO!!
Tell me you didn't read the posts without saying you didn't read the posts.
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@DBDVulture said:
-"Killer is the easiest roll by a longshot."
Here's your problem: at the highest skill levels of DBD that is known to be false. This is why when we have DBD comp tournaments the survivors almost always have the limitation : no character/perk/item repeats.
If you find killer to be the easy role then you're either :
1) Playing Nurse/Blight with best addons all the time vs very good players and crushing them
2) Playing Nurse/Blight with literally whatever and crushing mid tier MMR players.
3) Playing low tier MMR players with any random killer and crushing them.
Do me a favor please. Pick your favorite/strongest killer and try to win ~50 games in a row with a 4k. The results don't matter; what matters is that getting somewhere around 50 wins should permanently place all your other killers at 1200 MMR. Now you will see the game in a completely different way.
Im remarkably bad with nurse and blight. I main demo and ghostie closely followed by. clown, spirit and maybe legion. When I play these killers and try, I can generally secure 3/4ks very consistently. I rarely have bad games with them, they happen but not very often. Using my sweaty demo Iri build i haven't seen a 2k or less game in months.
I'll have bad games usually when I'm using a killer I'm not good with if I'm doing a specific challenge or daily ritual. Or when I'm playing my deathslinger hex meme build. Obvs I'll have a bad game when I'm trying every so often, but not often enough to give me any grief or frustration. My mmr has been frequently been putting me with my 600 hours experience against survs with 1,800 hours right up to 6-7k hour players. Co ordinated swfs and (attempted) bully squads. My mmr certainly doesn't feel low, and the games are challenging, I have to work to win them.
My average killer session will be 7-8 games. Usually I get 3ks (tend to let last one go unless they were toxic to me), if my daily ritual is bad I may have a game or two of 1/2ks at the start. Out of the 6-7 games I play properly I'll maybe get the odd 1 or 2k if I get outplayed. And it's been like that for a few months. You play killer right and you dominate the game.
My surv record is much worse. Well over half of my surv games end up being hatch games.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
- Survivors can hold their DH to force you to either give them Endurance and run away or drop the pallet and run away.
- All types of range attacks are countered (hatches, demo shred, wesker's dash, long M1, etc.)
- You HAVE to wait on every single Survivor (until you know their other exhaustion perk) before you can attack them, this can take even up to 6+ seconds before you can attack them and even then Survivor can use DH to counter it.
- One good DH on each Survivor can cost you XX seconds in chase extra.
- The best killers in the game (Nurse, Blight, etc.) are less effected by this perk, meaning the weaker killers will be the most punished if this perk works (the Killers where you need the least this perk on).
I really don't know why people complain about this perk...
The ranged attacks are precisely the type of attacks that dh should work against. They cut chases very short, so a perk to counter them is a fair thing. Still requires good timing. And the counter play is to use the ranged attacks as an opener instead of a finisher.
As for the 6+seconds? I'd need to time it but the difference between a long range lunge and a point blank hit doesn't feel that large to me. Unless you're running a dh script it's impossible to reflexively block a basic (non lunge) attack with dh without guessing when killer will swing.
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@Tsulan said:
You see, those 2 phrase are what keeps me wondering.
I see DH a lot, but I rarely struggle against it. Baiting it out is pretty easy in most situations...
Game balance already tips in the killer's favour, without DH, or if it gets nerfed into the ground that gap will only widen and kill rates will spike.
If its pretty easy to bait out, then it shouldn´t have an impact on the kill rates. Unless, it isn´t easy to bait out and has an impact.
I´m afraid it can´t be both at the same time.
The title of my post says it all. People apparently can't counterplay it. In my surv experience i succeed in maybe 30-40% of my dead hards. Usually if I hit a killer with it once, I'll get it again multiple times in the same game. Other games I'll try to use it 3/4 times, maybe nail one but mainly get downed because killer could successfully bait it.
If I hit it I get good value which sometimes leads to a win. It is a GOOD perk, that a lot of players use successfully. But It's not the broken auto win perk that most killwr mains claim it is.
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@HugTheHag said:
May I offer you a cup of coffee and a protein bar in preparation for the intense disagreements and debating that will no doubt follow ? =)
No need *cracks knuckles* I'm ready
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3375116#Comment_3375116
I'm pretty sure I explained why it's such an issue. Given her ability to appear in very close proximity to you out of nothing, it's not so much that you're following her but that she's always close enough to you again.
[The Demo comment is quite a big step into whataboutism territory - but seeing that this thread has been kinda hijacked already: that Iri add-on (and a few other addons of other killers too) is a massive pain in the behind. That being said, add-ons are different from perks; you have to expend add-ons, while you just use, and keep perks. Plus, Demo and Nurse aren't exactly playing in the same league when it comes to track/chase mobility.]
Idk, if a nurse kept rotating back to the same gen I'd probably switch my focus unless it was a truly vital gen to prevent a 3 gen. And I dont see it burning through all 3 of my tokens. If she's running off to do a chase, 2 hits and a hook you have ample time to make progress and you'll regen at least 1 token. While hiding in her tr while she bashes the gen 3 times.
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@Gamall said:
I have seen killers waiting for dh when survivors were in deep wound state or when they had just used sprint burst, many do not even know what they are doing
I've been getting that impression
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Maybe don't run it on deathslinger? His walk speed is so slow. And if you miss that one shot then you definitely wont get the exposed hit. He suits that build very badly.
Also suggest running it with spirit fury. You'll get way more downs that way.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374823#Comment_3374823
I do run Distortion. - That's how I realised that it's pretty broken on her; lost a stack every 10-15 seconds. I mean, props to her for the idea to run Brutal on Nurse (like wth 😂) but there is strong and then then there's absolutely bananas. This seems defiinitely more like the bananas end of the spectrum.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374796#Comment_3374796
One would think so - but that's not how we experienced it. We were equally bamboozled, amazed and horrified. It went like this: kick gen - if someone without distortion (aka everyone but me) was around: precision blink on them right away. If no one was already around (/it was me): blink a medium distance away into a semi-strategic location and on nearly all maps that guarantees someone to be within 24m range; use 2nd blink to precision blink on them. Repeat.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374801#Comment_3374801
It is a strong perk - but usually pretty well counterable with distortion or acting accordingly once you know it's in play (similar to BBQ) but this is also not at all about gen kicking. IIRC she ran Lethal, BBQ, NTH and Brutal.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374804#Comment_3374804
The role the perk plays in three genning is a separate issue. - But in this case it reaches a point where not even Distortion - the perk you're meant to equip when you want to counter these strategies - can remotely keep up.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374805#Comment_3374805
.... There's a difference between aura reading and having auras effectively permanently revealed during the entire match. Like I said; there's strong and then there's bananas.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374874#Comment_3374874
Uhhh? I'm not sure how not tapping a gen translates to a 20 sec cooldown? --- She kicks the gen, blinks on someone & gets a hit, kicks the next gen and gets the next hit - all within less than 20 seconds. Gens aren't that far apart - especially for her - and there's usually more than one gen with progress. The thing with NTH is that it is 24m around the KILLER not the gen. So her blinking away takes the aura reading with her.
_______________________
Short of everyone having Distortion equipped she will always get a hit on her second blink the latest, usually even on her first blink.
I mean nth has a pretty short range, you'd have to be following her to lose your tokens that fast. Idk why it's such an issue. Demo's iri add on is much worse.
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@Anti051 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373613#Comment_3373613
Dead Hard does break the game.
Every time it's elaborated upon, you just call it ignorance.
I don't call it ignorance. I call it overreaction. DH is the most actively annoying perk for killers. So killer mains want it removed.
But a broken perk is one that is unfair. With killrates at 60% (realistically more than that since games with DCs don't count and those are always essentially 4ks) killers clearly have the advantage still. That's with DH being so prevalent, it proves DH is fine and tbh kind of essential. And probably the only thing prevent killrates sky rocketing to 70-80%
It has counter play. 4 dh users doesnt guarentee an auto win. It require skill to use. It is a GOOD perk, but doesn't fit the definition of a broken one.
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@ThatHairyGreek said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374853#Comment_3374853
I guess it was a 50/50 yeah..Still people should not be allowed to do that kind of play but unfortunately thats something BHVR has control over.
Like i said. It's not pleasant play for sure. But not against the rules as written and you had options. Idk if you were exaggerating at all but I wouldnt mind an endgame like that. I'd have plentt of chance to get more bp doing gens chests and boons until killer started to actually play.
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I had a nea DC once when she tried to do a flashlight save after I got my first down when I was running lightborn.
I ended up losing the hook anyway because I heard the noise and assumed my pickup had DCd but no 🤣
I didn't even hit the nea and she noped out because she couldn't flashlight bully
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@ThatHairyGreek said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374835#Comment_3374835
Technically i could but he would know where i was thanks to the gen popping. Maybe the better discussion would be if the EGC should be completely reworked i guess..
Mm not really. If you did the furthest gens you'd have ample opportunity to hide and bypass him to get the hatch. You had multiple avenues.
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Wasn't technically holding it hostage. 25 minutes is more than enough for you to do all 5 gens. And you couldve found gens out of his sight line.
Don't get me wrong it's extremely unfun, toxic play. But not against the rules.
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Because if trapper had all his traps at the start he could just lock out 3 gens at the start and make the game impossible to win and incredibly unfun.
One of his addons already does this but stops him moving traps and takes up an add on space so he can't synergise it too hard.
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Yh it's annoying, devs knew about it beforehand and didn't care.
I can barely get through a killer game without someone having a temper tantrumn and disconnecting. Like right at the start, first down, people DC on third hook.
I wish BHVR would crank up DC penalties for repeat offenders. Not only do they ruin adepts but they're often throwing a game that survs could've won.
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Last stats we saw showed sadako had the highest killrate at high and low mmr. She doesn't need a buff
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It's not broken on nurse anymore than it is on any other killer. If you stuggle with it just run distortion. It's mad value actually, killers who run NTH get lazy when they bash gens because they expect to get the aura
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It could be good. Temporary blindness is kinda meh though. Third seal can be surprisingly effective just because it lasts for ages.
I've always been a fan of fearmonger though, it's kinda useful to make gen rushers lose some of that situational awareness. It'd be a better perk if more people ran fogwise.
Overall blindness is pretty niche. Most people can still find hooked survs from the sound bubble and slugged survs are unlikely to spend long enough hidden from allies to make a real difference.
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Windows for surv. I'm not great at chase in general but I'd be useless without it
Killer probably spies from the shadows. Weird one but it's my old favourite. And so good for when people think they've got away from your chase then a crow sussed them for you 😁
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Nah. Like you said OP she already has enough going for her.
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Absolutely not. Players are already insanely good at ambushing with flashlights. No need to expedite that particular tactic. You still get TR so that should be enough.
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I ######### hope not. Finishing mori is one of the worst ideas bhvr have considered.
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@DemocRat said:
Survivors that stay at the exit gate zone for more than 30 seconds are prevented from exiting the trial ( like blood warden ) for the duration of 10 seconds and get the exposed status.
2 words. Blood warden
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Hm. It's an interesting debate. Any adversarial multiplayer game is going to have some level of toxicity.
Asymmetric multiplayer more so. But I wouldn't say one side winning makes it unfun for the other side. I've had 4k games as surv that I've actually quite enjoyed. I think the issue is that so many games are totally one sided either gens are rushed or chases end super quick. And losing by a landslide is never fun and that will make people salty.
Depends on the attitudes of individual ppl. I tend to be pretty chill, as killer I often let 1 or 2 survivors go per game if I'm winning hard. And I'll usually gg who I can (xbox player) unless they were super toxic. And when I play surv I tend to be pretty tolerant of tunneling/facecamping, particularly during the late game if killer is struggling.
But some players just live to upset others or simply have little impulse control. For example a friend I play with, lovely person but she has a temper, and loses her ######### whenever she gets tunneled facecamped, (or after a bad day at work just whenever she gets downed 🤣), and has been comms banned before for calling someone a "see you next tuesday" in a message.
I tend to make a lot of friends on dbd, because I'll let ppl go, compliment players who play skillfully and never lord it over someone I've beaten. I also tend to apologise if I play "dirty" to finish a challenge like if I tunnel for an obsession kill or sweat hard for a 4k challenge. And ppl are often pretty understanding. You get out what you put in. I still get the odd toxic person who can't be calmed down but I'd say probably 90% of my interactions in dbd end up being positive.
Side note: I think end game chat is an awful idea. That's when people are at their most frustrated and salty. Boggles my mind that ppl think VC for survs is a bad idea but are fine with EGC.
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373624#Comment_3373624
I think people tend to think of Undying first for totem builds. The reason why is obvious but in this case I think Thrill is better, if riskier.
I've considered Undying as a third, for times when a hex spawns too far away to get to. I can guard two and leave the third alone.
Toth is definitely useful for this particular build. And it's nice to see an actual use for it and it synergising well with a new killer
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My sweaty demo build if I feel like ruining a game for survs?
Offering: mori token or rotton oak.
Add ons: red moss, leprose lichen
Standard Perks. Pain res, DMS, corrupt intervention.
Floating perk, iron maiden if I wanna stop them hiding in lockers, sloppy butcher or lightborn if I see lots of medkits/beamers in the lobby.
I'm amazed more people dont conplain about demo's iri add ons if I'm honest. They are straight broken. You basically always know where survs are at all times and can sneak up on gens for grabs super easily. Corrupt gives you time to set up a portal network and start bouncing around the map bushing survs.
Pain res dms is insane slowdown. And dms catches a lot of people who jump off gens when they hear you portal. And iron maiden is a delicious catch 22, good players, or anyone running distortion will realise you're constantly aura reading, and hide in lockers, only to reveal themselves and risk insta downs. I've never had a loss on this build. Distortion also can't nullify this build as you burn through the tokens so rapidly.
I don't run this very often though it's kind of a lazy build 😅
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My first game against skull merchant they were playing build like this. But I think they used hex undying, I crunched that one early on. Was a good game. We got to 2 gens before the exposed popped and we realised she was using devour. She mori'd two survs and I managed to crunch the hex before she could get back to me. And I got sacrificed for my trouble, but at leastvI wasn't mori'd 🤣
Last guy got out through hatch so at least my sacrifice wasn't in vain
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@Jurizaurz said:
1 person disconnected, one died, then we, 2 survivors, were hiding for 20 minutes but it was a streamer, who then threatened we would get banned for "holding game hostage" only because we weren't caught the whole time and how it "affected" his streaming process.
Did you do gens in that 20 mins?
Because if not then yes you were holding the game hostage. Hiding with the intention of not doing gens is holding the game hostage and explicitly against the rules. How would you plan for the gsme to end if not by finishing gens. Theoretically it could go on forever if killer couldn't find you which is totally possible. Trying to catch locker hopping survs who go to ground the second they hear the TR is practically impossible.
If you didn't want to do gens one of you should've sacrificed yourself to give the other a chance at hatch.
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@TenTrillion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373215#Comment_3373215
The thing is, your power is there to extend chase because the game isn't physically possible vs any half decent survivors without it. Your solution of "run these 2/3 perks" doesn't work. It never works for anyone. I shouldn't be required to run any single perk to win. I should be able to run my own fun build. And you still haven't adressed the other plethora of things. And the one you have for blight, it still took away that initial down the blight earned.
So what you're saying is you want to run subpar but fun builds and still perform? And the game isn't impossible for killers against "halfway decent" survs. Playing both roles as I do, killer is by far the easier of the two roles. And who cares if the blight didn't get the initial down? It costs blight scant seconds, he's one of the killers that DH is necessary against because of how he circumvents the whole gaining distance aspect of a chase. 3 health states against a blight is kinda necessary.
Don't get me wrong, sweaty SWFs are a nightmare. But the majority of survs simply cannot play to that standard. And it doesn't take many mistakes or quick downs for a game to spiral out of control for the surv side. DH or no.
Simply put, DH is a great perk. And survs NEED a strong perk. But it has counterplay, requires damn good timing to use and isn't effective in every single situation. The way you talk about it makes it sound like it breaks the game and is capable of carrying teams that wouldn't ever win otherwise which is simply not true.
Having never seen you play I suppose I can't realistically comment on your skill with any accuracy. But if DH annoys you this much I can only assume either that you aren't good at anticipating or countering it, or it's an attitude thing and you just hate not getting the down when you feel you should.
It's a powerful but reasonable perk.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373381#Comment_3373381
tbh netflix could use the money to give us s2 of lockwood + co as well so absolutely i would
It's such a no brainer for both companies. And vecna would be a perfect killer
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If they did another stranger things chapter everybody would lose their minds and open their wallets.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373096#Comment_3373096
Basekit Unbreakable was to accompany the Finishing Mori. The FM would enable killers to end a game with 0 hooks if they desired, purely by slugging. The devs obviously anticipated this, and to keep hooking necessary they would have introduced basekit UB. I don't think they ever intended to release it on its own.
Tbh the finishing mori was a terrible idea. Basekit unbreakble is fine because it'd only really make a difference against killers who abuse slugging.
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@TenTrillion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372914#Comment_3372914
your description lowerd my opinion of you. Wanna know something? I wait out when i have the chance, and ssit on the survivors ass. Now, either i'm facing a lot of cheaters, or some lucky ass people. cuz i click my mouse button, and 7/10 times they'll get the deadhard off. This is excluding the existence of a pallet or window, in a rough deadzone. You don't know you're facing a sweaty swf until you get demolished by one. Such as a survivor who is impossible to mindgame at shack, forcing all 3 window vaults and possibly the pallet dropped. Then taking you across the map to some more loops they'll be impossible to mindgame at because they know exactly how to perfectly loop everything. One thing i'll say is it can be very easy to see who is a deadhard user. Someone looking right back is a dead giveaway. But it still isn't just as simple as you're making it out to be. Wanna know the other situations? Any ranged killer using their power. Demo shredding when they're just about to go through a pallet, shredding on a tight corner, etc. Blight, Nurse can even be held back a recharge because of it, huntress easily loses a down to deadhard if she hasn't got a specific addon, trickster. See how its extending far beyond m1 killers here? Plague, pig with her dash, artist too. It's a menace.
I'm going by my experience in game. I bait it out a lot. I play a lot of survivors like that too and sometimes they do force a dead hard on pallets, and you know what? I just eat the pallet, they lose DH either way. But I can deal with that, can't end every chase quickly. But just as often they are forced to try and use it in the open and I get them. Good survivors are going to use it effectively. So I switch up my tactics. If you don't like being forced on pallets, play demo and shred them, or run spirit fury, or brutal strength endurance if that particular tactic irks you so much.
And some killers directly counter it, can't DH a deathslinger when he spears you, legion makes it extremely hard to get off, with blight you'll hit the DH and he'll just come sprinting at you again in a few seconds. Tbh I'm fine with getting DHd as a huntress, blight, raging oni or demo etc. Because those powers are designed to shorten chases. So being able to pull that back a bit is good for balance.
Edit: dead hard scripters do exist and definitely deserve bans for it. I've seen a few players I suspect of it as they hit like 6-7 DHs in a game even in the most insane situations where they had no chance to react. But they are rare.
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@TenTrillion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372582#Comment_3372582
i name the biggest offender. Do you want me to sit here and write paragraphs about every situation a survivor can force a deadhard? Theres a minimum of 8 of them. There is a lot where its almost-certain, and some where it's just guessing. And lets not mention, deadhard removes the concept of lunging. Yknow, that thing to let killers get a hit from a bit further away? SO instead, killers have to sniff the asscrack of the survivors for 8 seconds at a time?
@TenTrillion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372588#Comment_3372588
if it removes the capability for every m1 killer to counterplay, it is broken.
I love it when people claim there are X things that prove their point then refuse to elaborate, makes for a very strong argument. Pallets are the only reliable way to force deadhard. Vaults are too dicey vaulting takes too long and you take a hit. running at killer? Can easily be read and baited out. While bodyblocking? More reliable as killers will rush actions while carrying a surv but that is a hella risky tactic and often fails, all you've done is taken a deep wound, exhaustion and the person you were trying to help still gets hooked.
And I've played M1 killers a fair bit, and i bait it out all of the time. It doesn't take 8 seconds. As soon as you're on the survs ass they will pop it, and if you do a basic attack without a lunge it's impossible for them to time it right reliably, they have to guess.
If you stuggle agsinst dead hard and are losing games because you swing into it 6 or 7 times a game that is a skill issue. Plain and simple. Younjust need tonnot swing at the first available instant, hold for literally one second and then you get the down.
I often play very sweaty SWF teams, and once I get a read on which players want me to chase them, it's so easy to predict who uses DH, counterplay and make them dab early just for me to hit them. I still swing into it occasionally. But hey that's the game. I definitely bait more than I swing into
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@Anti051 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372588#Comment_3372588
Actually,
Super-enhancing your survivability when using the primary mode of defense fits perfectly, especially when the function of the perk is "ignore results of gameplay and 'win' anyway."
You're being willfully ignorant here. Win? you mean extend chase by a bit. In my book as a surv, winning is escaping and it's not like bringing DH guarantees and escape. Yh it makes pallets more effective. So what?
My point is that DH is effective but it isn't the 100% reliable 3rd health state button aome of you seem to claim it is. Hyperbole doesn't help prove your point. It's simple, it is effective but it's hard to use, it can be counterplayed. If you can't counterplay it AND insist on only using M1 killers with no anti loop then I really don't know what to tell you. Because believe me it can be counterplayed with M1 killers.