HexFelix
HexFelix
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- HexFelix
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Comments
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120153#Comment_4120153
My guy that's a really cute fantasy but your one post that almost no one engaged with except to say you were wrong didn't get that perk nerfed.
And you are defending him, and supporting him by watching his content. Even if the only thing that's true is the disgusting stuff he has personally said than that's more than enough.
The downvotes on a dying forum are cracking me up tho. Keep going.
I never said that the perk got nerfed because of me, I just said that BHVR used the same point as me in their patchnotes when nerfing this perk. And I find it funny because many people disagreed with me without making good points against my like 10 and BHVR actually has the same opinion about SP as me.
There is nothing wrong with watching his content, better than most people’s content who are in the creator program.
And to rub it more in before I go to sleep, comparing Rivers Dbd Related Videos (not the drama ones) and the forum, he makes better points than 90% of posts that are in here. -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120148#Comment_4120148
Your main point? Yeah, it was all your doing, random guy. Which of your parasocial obsessions did you get your main point from anyway? Since all you ever seem to do is reference some CC.
"Not for everyone" he's a troll that makes jokes about ######### and people dying, not to mention the doxxing, and was banned from the game. Defending someone that gross because he knows about some stupid video game is repulsive.
I never said something about the doxxing stuff, I just said that his discussion about the game videos are actually good. I’m not defending him but he shows in his videos how people like Scott lie about him and he proves he didn’t do the doxxing. Most people I saw accusing him of doxxing, lying or something else never show evidence. Cry as much as you want, bhvr agreeing with me just proofs me right.
And for where I got my points from, my own experience with this perk, I made that clear in my original post and I never named any CC before right now.Congratulations you lost to a „random guy“.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120148#Comment_4120148
you talking about the "harmless killer" video?
Yes I do
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120121#Comment_4120121
Referencing one of the game's most vile and detestable pieces of trash is one hell of a self report.
Rivers content might not be for everyone, but his videos of dbds balancing an design like his Blight or Ghoul video are some of the best Dbd videos. And the recent one is great too. If he was wrong about his takes in Dbd why can’t anyone proof him wrong? Everyone just insults him or says he is wrong without points such as in my Self Preservation post. You are just mad they nerfed it and used my main point under the patch notes. GG
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He is right though in his video
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Killers having a chance against swfs doesn’t mean the killer is broken. Rivercivers latest video also shows why Judgment (and a couple of other killers) are way to babified. He has good points on why these killers suck again decent teams most of the time and why the current design of killers suck.
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It’s kinda lame we didn’t got a new killer class ever, just constant changing. How about a Killer calls called „The Tracker“, its main ability is like: Break a totem to reveal all survivors around you and after breaking it get some haste for a few seconds. And for the tracking ability give it recycled base kit spies from the shadows.
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@Tamo said:
Ok so I am happy to trade Thrill for Shoulder, that's fine I guess. They're both strong & I'll be honest Shoulder doesn't see that much play anyway except in those unique situations or in certain swfs more to the point. It's fine to let this exchange happen so that two strong perks each side have been made very much weaker than they were.
All that said though, WHY THE STAKE OUT REWORK!? Also WHY THE SLIPPERY MEAT REWORK!?
Stake out seemed more viable with Road Life after the changes there, then I scroll & see you trashed it so Road Life is still just the same as it was before essentially so what's the point!? Worse than that though, so many good changes or additions to older, less used, more niche perks but you rework Slippery Meat (a perk I like for silly self unhook build) WITHOUT ANY CHANGE TO UP THE ANTE!? Why change a perk that basically only ever gets used with one other, without changing the other which arguably needs the change more!?
Someone please make it make sense, I'm not going to sit here & say this patch is killer sided because it's really not, the perks overall have had positive changes that raise their bar on both sides. The nerfs seem fair or at least make sense & therefore should just shake up the gameplay a little to their main principal, this is all good. But why make changes like these when others have been made in the same patch? Some of those perks benefits only shine if paired with perks you've then also changed so they end up just being in the same place. I'm not gonna lie, I need stake out for Hyperfocus. I reckon I'd need it for Road Life too, but that not going to happen now, so I'm still not likely to use Road Life. Why change the perks with uses to stop them pairing with other perks, the combos we create are part of the fun & should be the priority because it creates more options for builds that then make everyone's experience playing different, if I want to build craft let me. I can't if the perks don't pair well enough. I already hate diminishing returns for still basically killing perks 3rd & 4th in the stack chain but now we're patching combos out. It's just a shame.
Sorry for such a long rant there. Had to vent it though. Overall the patch is fine, needs more testing but some things I think need taking back to the drawing board first.
The last thing I'll say is in relation to maybe going back to the drawing board, that being the fact that while I do understand the nerfs to Shoulder & think they are definitely more of a risk I REALLY hate that it deactivates for everyone after its use. I hate any game where that can happen, you bring something but because someone else did it or used it first now you can't. That's the only issue I have.
Other than that, all good. Thanks for coming to my ted talk. See you in the fog
Stake out was fine for many years, but then Hyperfocus made it broken because of its existence. I would have preferred if they reworked Hyperfocus instead since stake out was fine for many many years without it.
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@loonastan123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117639#Comment_4117639
Yes, I was talking about the timer as I wasn't aware that they were changing it to activate only via M1, as I exclusively use it on M1 killers so the timing changes would hit pretty hard.
yeah, the only way where I would say where it would be fine to reduce its time is if we do something against Pallet density first
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/472338/upcoming-sp-nerf-makes-no-sense
They literally explained it to you. It can lead to situations where the killer goes back to hook because if a bunch of survivors are running it where else can you go? Like anything its another perk where, by itself isn't a problem, but if 4 survivors stack it, it is suddenly a massive problem.
I fully agree with this one, I even made a post about how this perk is unhealthy and now the developers are using one of my points and shortened its duration. It’s even funnier that the devs agree with me when on my post most people cried and said it’s fine without proving any of my 10 points or so wrong. I still would have preferred if the perk would have gotten a rework for that except same reason but I take what I can.
Edit: Just downvoting this without saying something just proves me right about the crying part, the devs took my point in the patch notes where others disagreed, I won from my pov.
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I partly agree. I think the duration could still be 20 seconds but the change that it only activates on basic attacks is fine. I most m1 killers are b tier or bellow so they can still use it. It not making it work with m2s is fine since it lead to situations. Like ghoul getting the first easy injury and then you can’t do anything, or legion vaulting over the pallet, hitting you and ending his power. Dissolution will still be good but 20 seconds could still be reasonable.
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“Nice once again you've ignored literally everything else I said.“
I actually answered your points and looked at your text when answering.
„Can we first agree that every projectile killer is different? That some projectiles are stronger than others?“
I never said this isn’t the case. Sure judgments beams is stronger than a huntress hatchet but it is way harder to aim because it doesn’t have an immediate hitbox and it gives the survivor more time to react to it in a chase.
„What do you mean by a reaction time? And also it can be sent to a survivor in front of you so gonna ignore that part.“
I mean the survivor gets notifications that judgment uses it via sounds and animations. And you can only hit a survivor in front of by dragging the beam somewhere else and the adjusting the direction. It’s not „raise and throw and it hits anyone it passes“ since it hasn’t an active hitbox immediately.
„Then I asked what's the criteria for making a projectile balanced, fun and fair in your opinion?“
- Good animations and sounds
- Reaction time
- Mindgames to it
Basically the beam looks and sounds good, survivors in chase or on gen can react to it and you can try to predict what the other side does wich creates fun and interactive mindgames. Judgements beam does all that for me and is very unique.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116314#Comment_4116314
Now why is judgements projectile dodgable but victor's isn't? What's the difference there? Why are some projectiles dodgable and some not? I'm glad we are establishing that projectiles are not inherently dodgable in nature.
Your huntress point is very interesting. This is what I'm trying to get you to understand this whole conversation which is rather basic, but you seem to be missing. NOT ALL PROJECTILES ARE THE SAME. It's not by my logic that huntress needs a nerf, it's by YOUR logic that all projectiles are the same.
Quite clearly we can see in any video game, but dbd as well that every projectile is different. Otherwise, we'd just have one projectile killer and that'd be the end of the day. So we know every projectile is different, and based on our previous understand that victor's projectile is not dodgable, that some projectiles are not dodgable.
So now we come to step 2 in basic game design, what makes a projectile fair, fun, and counterable/dodgable?
Oh also i have plenty of proof that judgement is broken but I need to teach you what proof is first apparently.
Judgment beam: Aim, drag around, fire means it has reaction time and can’t just be send to a survivor in a loop in front of you instantly.
Victor: Runs up to you, looks and hits means victor is way easier to hit but can only take a single health state every pounce on a healthy survivor (and can be kicked and destroyed via pallets)
Judgments beam can be reacted to early, victor has his own unique counterplay with pallets and lockers,.
„Ah yes just look at the ability and dodge it. That's NOT sufficient evidence of fun, fair gameplay and counter play.“And what I said was that your logic is basically that. So in your world huntress needs a nerf because you need to look at 90% of killers and react to them using their power. Judgment has counterplay, survivors are just to lazy to learn it.
If it’s unfun for you or you dislike the killers power than thats not a problem with the killer.It’s like with Krasue where everybody cried about her until she got nerfed and now I see her every time a meteor lands in my backyard.
Like I said nerf survivor in general, not perks, general than I’m fine with nerfing high tiers like judgment ect.
And if you have so much proof than make your own post instead of arguing in a post that is about a completely different topic, that you do that is just proof of your entitlement. -
@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116305#Comment_4116305
Hold up now we are FINALLY getting somewhere in this conversation. You've just said that PTB twins is not the save as judgement as judgement is easier to dodge than twins. Okay so according to you there IS a limit as to how powerful you can make a ranged projectile and the ability to dodge it design wise. So why is judgements fair but not twins? Any reasons other than "It feels fairer because I played a couple games and it seemed good!"?.
Okay then how is anyone meant to take you seriously. Your entire argument is that "I was able to dodge the power when I played against a couple of these killers?". But when I played against ptb twins I was able to dodge the power as well! So what's the difference??
You can't even prove it at all because you won't custom, you won't show me video evidence, you won't do anything to back up your claims. Typical forums chatter, someone who's quite clearly inexperienced at the game and doesn't understand how dbd works and how it's balanced, using their own anecdotal experience in low mmr to justify a killer they have no clue how to play at a high level.
To your last point, so blight and nurse's counterplay is dodging the rushes and blinks? Why did these killers get nerfed then? According to you they already have enough counterplay because you can "see and dodge" the ability? Such a primitive understanding of game balance, it's why this game's gone to #########.
Judgment is fine because her projectile is dodgeble while the ptb twins was unavoidable. And if the judgment player predicts your movements and hits you then they deserved to hit you. Chases are meant to be lost eventually. And me saying I had no problems dodging it 70% of the time because I know how the killer works and I have experience in this game while you say it has no counterplay like day one survivor.
I’m not taking you seriously because you compare something that is live, out for a week to something that was just in a ptb and declared as a disaster.
And why should I go custom and waste my time with a random?
And sure I’m inexperienced with 4K hours who plays 60% killer and 40% survivor and playing for now 6 years.
And you have no proof that judgment is broken yourself.
„To your last point, so blight and nurse's counterplay is dodging the rushes and blinks? Why did these killers get nerfed then? According to you they already have enough counterplay because you can "see and dodge" the ability? Such a primitive understanding of game balance, it's why this game's gone to #########“
Using only the top 2 killers as example shows your manipulative and world twisting side. What about huntress, her gameplay is look at where she aims and dodge the axe, she is unfun and unfair by your definition. So does huntress need a nerf, according to your logic yes.
I never said judgment isn’t strong, I just said that she is fine as she is now. If you want serious nerfs for it and some other high tiers you need to nerf survivors in general because this game is currently survivor sided, and thats a fact.
But keep arguing, I find it really funny how baby’s whine when the other side gets something.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116298#Comment_4116298
But that's just your opinion on the perks and the judgement. What if from my perspective and others these perks have counterplay by using game knowledge and game sense but the judgement has no killer? The point is you are asserting things without proof based on your own pre-conceptions.
To your next point:
A: Judgement is not hard. Why are people stomping on this killer within its first week of release if it's hard? And people already thinkk it's S tier? You are confusing weird and different to play with "hard to play". Blight is undeniably hard to play, and it took people months, if not YEARS to find his true potential and realise he was an S tier killer.
B: Once again you are saying that if a killer has no mobility then it's fair game to make the rest of their power as strong as you want, because you think that mobility is the only thing that matters or the most important thing (not true). Nurse has horrendous horizontal map mobility, slower than a trapper. Does that mean she's not the best killer in the game? (or maybe second best now).
So in your few games you've played against this killer against people who clearly don't know what they are doing on it based on your description, since they let you just react to all of their attacks, you've decided this killer is thus fair? Okay I had a few fun and fair games against PTB twins it's 100% balanced then and we should add that back to the game. Come demonstrate this fun, fair and reliable counterplay you are talking about in a custom against MY judgement, see how you like that?
Ah yes just look at the ability and dodge it. That's NOT sufficient evidence of fun, fair gameplay and counter play. I'll use the PTB twins example again, just dodge the victor attack that's the counter play, therefore the ptb twins is balanced.
A: Judgment is Defenetly a killer that is hard to master. Learning any killer is way harder than learning survivor.
B: I never said by definition that a killer with no mobility has right to infinite power. Like if they make a killer that walks 0.5 /s but hooks all survivors via a button press isn’t fair. You are just twisting my words to make them fit in your world.
And comparing this killer to ptb twins is absolutely hilarious because victor is way easier to hit with than that beam. And accusing the judgments I faced fo not knowing what they where doing is absolutely disgusting since they were actual good players who knew how to aim. I died in most of them but i didn’t got hit on generators because I use my eyes and ears, and I dodged lost of beams in chase.„Come demonstrate this fun, fair and reliable counterplay you are talking about in a custom against MY judgement, see how you like that?“
No thanks I have better things to do than waste my time with a random crying guy who thinks that old dh apparently had counterplay but a killer with a well telegraphed and sound power has not.
„Ah yes just look at the ability and dodge it. That's NOT sufficient evidence of fun, fair gameplay and counter play.“Well that would also count for: Huntress, Deathslinger, Trickster, Sprintrap, Houndmaster, Blight, Nurse, when I think about it almost every killer. Dodging blight rushes, huntress hatches, doctors shocks or even a popular killer like weskers dashes (dodging killer powers) is main part of the game so you are saying that all killers are not fair and fun.
And using ptb twins as example is unviable since this never came live, judgment did for good reasons.
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@TropesDaMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116286#Comment_4116286
I think Demo has a good chance
Demo as he is Defenetly, but bhvr seemed very open to make a Stranger things 2 v 8 but for that they somehow need to make ST Vecna fit into 2 v 8
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116283#Comment_4116283
Care to respond to a single thing I said?
You havn't told me why ANYTHING I've said is wrong? Infact you're just proving my point that the people defending judgement's design don't even know what they are defending.
“Imagine if i said "stop crying and learn to play agaimst it" about old ds, old dh, old circle of healing, sprint burst etc. How would you feel?“
Crying about old perks that had no counterplay at all isn’t the same as Judgment who has counterplay by reacting and using your eyes and ears. Judgment isn’t a free win if you pick her while old dh was „press e for free distance“ for example.
“Everykiller in history has has up and down sides??? No ones debating it they are debating that its unfun, unfair and insanely overpowered. Nurse has plsnty of downsides does that mean she's not good then?“
Yeah every killer has up and downsides, it’s just that judgments strength is more justified because it’s harder to learn properly and has no mobility and is slower than most killers. Nurse has only one downside wich is her speed but the massive upside of decent mobility and ignoring all loops and turning the game into a different one when she is in the trial.
“Infact you're just proving my point that the people defending judgement's design don't even know what they are defending.“
I actually proved you are wrong in an earlier response where I said that in my survivor experience against judgment all I need to do was react, use my eyes and ears and that I had fun facing it. And no i didn’t played against baby judgments, the ones I faced were decent to good and knew what they were doing.
If you want to cry about the new killer who’s counterplay isn’t described in 3 words like „dodge the axe“ then make your own post since this is about Judgment and Pyramid in comparison. -
@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116254#Comment_4116254
Imagine if i said "stop crying and learn to play agaimst it" about old ds, old dh, old circle of healing, sprint burst etc. How would you feel?
Everykiller in history has has up and down sides??? No ones debating it they are debating that its unfun, unfair and insanely overpowered. Nurse has plsnty of downsides does that mean she's not good then?
im not the one who is crying and not bringing good points though
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I tunnel if i have to. Sometimes there are games you can’t win without getting one survivor out if the team you play against is good. Some games are even not winnable with tunneling. For example a 4 man swf on eyrie of crows against a Ghostface is going to win if they don’t mess up extremely badly. The 3 v 1 is also much more manageable than the 4 v 1. I don’t feel bad when slugging, Proxy camping or tunneling because: „Survivors normally dont care about the killers fun so why should I care about theirs?“ A world without tunneling must contain a world where 4 hooking actually rewards the killer somehow.
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we used to get 2 or 3 killers every time, it’s currently a 50/50 if we even get one and like you said there are so many original killers that could be easily implemented into this mod. Dam I just want to throw speed bottles at my teammates XD
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4115983#Comment_4115983
Yeah so your saying that it doesn't matter how op someone’s power is, as long as they don't have mobility they are balanced and skilful.
Judgement doesn't just need to be "looked at", It needs to be removed. It doesn't belong in dbd and feels nothign like dbd. It feels like a PvE game as killer and as survivor you're playing dodgeball on a timer knowing that you will just get hit no matter what you can do.
Stop crying and learn playing against it. In my survivor matches against Judgment, it was pretty fun dodging the ability. And i didn’t get snipped one time on a gen because in comparison Ro streamers I don’t have a chat to look at and I actually use my eyes and ears. It’s always the same, Killer comes out, is strong, survivors who are to lazy to learn counterplay cry for nerfs.
„Yeah so your saying that it doesn't matter how op someone’s power is, as long as they don't have mobility they are balanced and skilful.“
I never said that I just said that judgment has its up and downsides
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@cammoking123 said:
If the killer can see your aura after completing a gen then it’s basically a “please kill me” feature.
When a gen gets completed they just see the aura of survivors who haven’t a hookstate yet
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All depends on the license holders, but probably more likely to come back them hellraiser
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Isn’t this the reason they disabled (killswitched) flashlights until they fix that?
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To be honest it is something survivors choose to interact with. If they don’t use it then basically nothing changed, most survivor classes are still op, there are still these things that can remove a hook state for free and killers will still struggle against the average teams.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4115918#Comment_4115918
So if you don't have hyper mobility your killer is never good? What rubbish mobility is only ONE tool of many to determine a killers strength. Nurse doesn't have good longitudinal map mobility, infact a trapper can get from one side of the map to the other faster than a nurse.
It’s not what he said, he just said judgment has her exile and beam but has no movement ability and is 4.4 m/s, making the killer really on the players skill and power use. Using the exile to negate surv perks also comes with a trade of where you can’t use any hook perks like pop, pain res ect. Judgment should be looked over the next weeks but crying immediately isn’t the solution.
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Nurse and Blight are harder to play so they are stronger, clown is a bit easier to play but not nearly as strong. There is actually things clown has to think of to play, not brainless bottle spam, like cutting of loops by preplacing, predicting where survivors will go and combining his bottles. And anyone can master any killer with enough motivation and practice.
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Why nerfing a B tier killer while Nurse, Blight, Dracula, Singularity ect exist who are way stronger?
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I personally thought it was a bit weird when the second stranger things chapter came out that every character got some kind of skin or legendary skin, changes, voicelines ect except Demogorgon who didn’t got any changes or cosmetics in the strangers things 2 patch. I personally would like to see blighted demogorgon and Vecna (the first) wich they could make if they make a strange things 2v8 for example (wich they showed they want to do at some point).
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if survivors can choose one killer each they don’t want to face, then 4 survs in a lobby can ban 4 different killers (abusable in swf kinda) and know they won’t face them. Then as killer I should have the option to choose 4 perks I don’t want to face, that would be bad if killers don’t want to face a perk you like using huh?
Killers and survivors can play whatever they want, they both payed for the game, characters and cosmetics (if something is unbalanced or unfunny it’s BHVRs fault in designing it).
If for example this change gets through and no one wants to face ghoul, but as killer I bought the character and now I can’t find lobby’s at all. Kinda dumb situation since I payed for my character and can’t play it. -
@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113388#Comment_4113388
Nah, just proxy camp, hook whever came to trade and then go after the person who was just unhooked. It's extremely easy to tunnel someone even if you hook someone in between.
If you hook person a and then person b it’s no tunneling. Tunneling means hooking only the same survivor multiple times in a row wich isn’t the case there and it has nothing to do with the post
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@Nazzzak said:
On the flipside, there are plenty of folks who use no or very little aura reading perks. In which case, they barely even notice SP and it's essentially a wasted perk slot. Perspective matters. I'd prefer to go against survivors running SP than a multitude of other survivor perks.
Finally someone wich actually good arguments. It kinda does little against people not using aura perks. But it still doesn’t mean its design is good since it still promotes a „Kill my team while I hide“ playstyle. There is much more busted stuff on the survivor side yeah but they aren’t designed to let your team die and disappear wich SP kinda is.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113411#Comment_4113411
Ok
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DW2Y57IMTEJD/screenshot-20260831-165936.jpg
I'm so bad and play so little killer that I've essentially won all my matches these last 30 days. You referred to yourself as a casual player in another post and that's pretty apparent. Ghoul is hated by killers too. He's one of the worst things that's happened to this game. Some people actually want skill expression, not free injures and on-demand mobility. If you advocate for killers like that than you're part of the reason survivors need strong perks. Ghoul is why we're on the path we're on.
People on both sides crutch but I'm not saying killers in general crutch, I'm saying you are crutching if you have one match where a survivor perk actually does something and you're complaining about it. Perks are supposed to be useful. SP can be very healthy. An Elusive surv can get the unhook and now both are Eluisve, so they waste a hook-returners time by disappearing. It's the Distortion argument all over again. People running SP are getting unhooks, doing gens, and healing. They're just making themsleves less visible for brief and random intervals.
Still doesnt prove me wrong Mr Survivor Fan 3000. If you want to cry about ghoul like other whiny people than make a post yourself instead of crying here in a post of why I think SP is an unhealthy designed perk. Ghoul is personally my top 5 killers to vers because you have to think when playing against him wich some people can’t … and Playing as is cool because he counters most bs in the game.
On demand mobility is something we don’t want, but then we don’t want half the killers.
And me calling SP an unhealthy perk by design is supposed to be the fault survivors need strong perks somehow?
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Like the first comment says it’s dodgeable and has audio cues (I’m not sure but if you are far away you also could jump into a locker for full immunity, theoretically). And not having to hook just counters all the current strongest survivor perks but it also makes pain res and pop for example not as important for it.
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@T1MEXII said:
I know as a solo survivor it must be annoying and seem unbalanced and unfair but you have to understand what is possible as survivor. Everyone knows solo survivor is the hardest role, especially with bad randoms. We have all been there.
If you choose to play in a swf (Survive With Friends) then at first glance it might not seem like a problem, sounds em fun and probably is to you. Being on a mic and doing silly things looks fun, I have also watched hours of dbd content and I really enjoy the stupid stuff you can do.
Sadly that is only one side, the other is using perks to bully the killer. Even that is not the worst part, bully squads don't sometimes complete the generators so in a tiny way it could be beneficial.
The fowl perks and items that survivors can use to generally make this game unplayable is why swf are hated among the killer community. Using strong toolboxes to make it impossible for killer to hook, especially when the killer deserves the hook from playing well. Using perks like Power Struggle to make it impossible for killers to pick up from a pallet. These are the survivors that killers go against and is the reason why killers do not take any chances.
Dbd might seem like a party game for survivors and it probably is with all the fun stuff you can do, sadly it is not the same for killer. One game a chill team and the next is a fully meta (Powerful perks) swf. Killers simply can't take a chance, until 2v8 killers have not had anyone to play with so it always been playing to win because who doesn't want to see how far they could go.
One more thing to consider before hating the way killers play, in a 4 man swf it is basically 16 perks vs 4 perks. I'm not going to complain but it can seem a little unfair so killers need to do all they can to win.
I know it is unfair, as a solo survivor player I have been tunneled out by a killer at 5 gens. It is miserable and you'll complain but go against one of those squads I mentioned and you see the difference.
I find it funny if survivor complain about Tunneling/Slugging/Camping because it’s the same, if they win = The killer is bad, if they lose= killer played unfair and it’s a skill issue. I mean I have the choice of hooking and activating the strongest and most common perks currently or slug, or I know everyone is around the hook so I can’t leave it. You could theoretically call tunneling the same as gen rushing since it’s basically rushing your objective as killer.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113397#Comment_4113397
You said it countered Friends, not your whole build. And if your whole build is countered by a single perk maybe you shouldn't have such a single-minded build. And it only counters Friends until the obsession changes. It's not unhealthy for stealth to exist. What is unhealthy is that killers are hard crutching on an endless amount of aura perks and add-ons and can't cope if they get out stealthed. Sorry you couldn't just mindlessly fling yourself across with the most skill-less killer every time you saw yellow for one match. You called this other person a 10 hour player but if you're crutching this hard on your perks and can't function without them it sounds like you're the one that's weak at macro.
But yeah, I play 100-300 killer matches a month and win most of them but it's all clueless soloqers cause that's totally how matchmaking works.
And again no arguments against my main points on SP. And crunching on aura, I still got 2 kills because I they had good survivors. Using aura builds instead of 4 gen slowdowns what you normally need against good teams (I know you don’t face them like I do) isn’t crunching on perks. But you exposed yourself with the ghoul sentence. It’s not topic of this post but ghoul takes more skill than you think, first hit is easy but cut off are precise. And only entitled survivors call ghoul a skill less amend easy. Calling killer crunching on auras (while there are better options) while survivors crutch on the same 5 perks I see every game is truely the opinion of someone who plays 10 seconds a day. But playing so much Dbd and being unaware of any of this, I feel sorry for you.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113386#Comment_4113386
So they waste a few seconds getting into a locker then they just get back on their gen. The scratch marks don't matter much if you're just blindy following aura because you aren't going to their gen anyway. They'll sit there in peace either way.
No one is running things to counter a single perk. They run things that counter multiple perks. Mindbreaker, Infectious, Whispers. You can counter a bunch of perks at once with perks like that. SP isn't strong enough or popular enough to even consider bringing a perk just to counter it. You can also run one of a zillion other aura perks that don't just proc after hooks.
Did I say I didn't see this perk? I do see it. It's just not that big of an issue if you have some gamesense, as well as eyes and ears. SB and Vigil were an issue.
Ah that's hilarious you're listening to that biased clickbaity clown. I think that tells me all I need to know. I play killer every day, probably far more than you, but believe what's convenient for you.
Like always not going on my points, not thinking on my explanation why the perk design is unhealthy and promotes bad playstyles and only counters healthy perks like bbq. Mindbreaker doesn’t counter Self-Preservation and infectious only works, on downing another survivor wich encourages slugging and I already explained whispers. And your experience isn’t mine, in my cases like my ghoul game this single perk shuttled down my entire build.
Well have fun playing against clueless solo q survivors all day while having a survivor sided mindset and getting destroyed on YouTube by a „Clown“. -
@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113384#Comment_4113384
Try 6k. And if you can't comprehend the concept of looking for a specific aura every time you activate BBQ I can't help you with that.
still impossible to tunnel with bbq since you hook person a then hook person b to find person a again and it isn’t tunneling because you hooked someone else. But thats not the topic of this post.
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@cogsturning said:
If I don’t see auras from bbq on a hook that must mean all survivors are nearby and I have to stay closer to the hook right?
Or in a locker? Because it's a very easy perk to figure out a killer has, and has a counter that people with 100 hours will know. SP just has the survivor skipping the locker if you don't want to be seen on your gen.
In general I hate the idea of elusive (elusive on unhook is fine though). Aura perks just show killer directions to go and counter stealthy survivors, but if we get more and more elusive perks, killer won’t pick aura perks because of that and bring more gen slowdown.
It's not like there's only two choices in perks, aura and anti-gen. Whispers counters SP and is an info perk. So does Infectious. SP also only works on post-hook aura. I generally run two aura and one aura add-on and though I see this perk often enough it rarely gives me trouble. And when I do find someone with no scratch marks after a hook (with my eyes) I immediately recognize the perk and keep it in mind. Just like decent survivors are expected to identify and counter certain killer perks, killers need to do the same. You can't just expect your perks to do all the work for you.
- Going in a locker for a few seconds does waste a few seconds and doesn’t give you aura immunity, no scratch marks and no blood for 30 s for doing absolutely nothing. And if bbq shows you that everyone is around then you actually have no reason to go far away from the hook.
2. Just like I said as killer you can’t afford to run specific perks to counter a singular survivor perks, like whispers and whispers doesn’t give you the exact position. And just because it doesn’t give you trouble doesn’t mean it’s ok. I could simple say I rarely saw old Sprintburst or vigil so it was fine before the nerf wich I know it wasn’t. I already named enough situations, experience and arguments why I think this is an unhealthy perk.
And for you in my other post you only had survivor sided opinions despite saying you play killer, wich i don’t believe when you say killers deserve a 30 s stun after hitting a surv on hook. Even on a YouTube channel I watch where he goes over Dbd forum posts the Stuber calls your comments wrong and that you are a not a killer player for what you said. Don’t take it personally but i won’t respond to your arguments since when I always try the only argument is a „but this“ or „lightborn is unfair“.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113358#Comment_4113358
We're gonna go in circles like this so I'll just say I know you're wrong because I play killer. You give me aura and I can know it won't be blocked I am going to use it to help me tunnel and yes even BBQ because just because I can see everyone doesn't mean I'm going to go after everyone and not just ping pong between two people to get someone out as quickly as possible. You put on self-preservation all of a sudden maybe I can't do that so how unhealthy is that really?
I play lots of killer myself and I have to say you sound like you have 10 hours.How can you get aura form bbq and tunnel when you hooked another survivor? You just saying I’m wrong without naming good points or saying it’s not on issue in my games.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113333#Comment_4113333
I haven't really addressed it cuz I don't think any of them are really that interesting?
1. As I've said a bunch of perks work this way I don't know why we're singling out self-preservation
2. I just don't think this is an issue?
3. Perks can be countered by other perks yes, kinda the point of stealth perks in the first place.
4. I just disagree with this. I think we're too obsessed with "healthy" in DBD and it gets thrown around way too much. Aura perks are there to give the killer an advantage they're not they're to be "healthy".
5. If a killer camps they were probably gonna do that anyway. The idea that you have to dangle your aura in front of the killer or they'll just camp is kinda childish to me. Like "tell me where to go next or I'm taking my ball and going home" type ish.
6. Again this is the nature of stealth perks. We have been dealing with urban evasioning around the map since 2016. Those types of players will exist regardless.
7. Old self-preservation had a -10% use rate you'd basically kill the perk if you went back to this.
I think overall I'm just more okay with some perks being strong? if we focused on everything being "healthy" and promoting a "fair playstyle" we would have a very sanitized boring game. Self-preservation isn't actively breaking anything so it's fine imo.
- Because this post was supposed to be on just this Perk, read the title
- Not a good argument because just because it’s not an issue in your games doesn’t mean it’s fine. Same as if you would say Shoulder is fair and balanced because in my lobby’s i don’t see it. Dbd has many issues and I’m talking about this one because I noticed how stupid it is in chaos shuffle when I randomly got it.
- If perks can be countered by other perks, what counters Self-Preversation? Scream perks maybe but they are rarely used and often not worth a perk I already explained why hook=aura perks are good for the game. And killer slots are more valuable since they have 4, and survivors bring 16 perks.
- Killers who bring aura perks like bbq in 99% don’t have the intention to tunnel or camp so making a specific perk that spits on that is ridiculous.
- But killers who intent on camping ether wanted to do this from the start, want to secure a kill in endgame (wich is valid) or know all survivors are nearby (wich is valid). And camping killers usually dont bring perks like bbq. Like I said perks like bbq lead away form the hook, so saying it isn’t healthy for the game is completely wrong.
- Urban Evasion doesn’t hide your aura, scratchmarks or blood, it’s something different than of what I’m talking about.
- It would still had a usage like I explained and even would have synergy in builds like flashlight builds. Not every perk needs to have super man like powers, especially survivor perk’s mustn’t be as strong as killer perks.
And a Dbd thats more healthy would be killers going for multiple hooks, perks not giving you everything for free. Self-Preservation just spits on that and says „screw you im invisible just go for my teammates I’ll wait with my key with left behind“
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113319#Comment_4113319
But how you use the perk is the crux of the issue. If you just rat with it and your team isn't good in chase then ofc that's gonna go poorly. If your issue is that you can do that in the first place that's kinda just the nature of stealth perks it's hard to design a stealth perk that's actually good that doesn't do that outside of like maybe Iron Will.
Also I think it's false framing to suggest it's causing unhealthy gameplay when we had this debate with distortion. People said tunneling would stop if we just nerfed Distortion that they were just ratting and letting their teams die cuz the killer was then "forced" to tunnel. Well we nerfed Distortion it's usage plummeted and .…tunneling still happened, a lot.
We kinda have to realize DBD in theory and DBD in practice are not the same thing. If a killer wants to tunnel they're going to because getting one person out of the game as quickly as possible creates the most pressure for them if they are actually trying to win. Even if you don't have self-preservation there's no actual guarantee the ghoul goes for you when you have no hook states and others are on death hook because even if they can see you the incentive is low outside of pressuring whatever gen you're working on.
I think you're still missing the main point of my original post, because most of your response is addressing things I wasn't actually arguing.
I never claimed Self-Preservation causes tunneling, that removing it would stop tunneling, or that the Ghoul was somehow forced to chase me because BBQ showed my aura. The Distortion example therefore doesn't really address my argument. I'm not arguing about whether Killers will tunnel if they have less information; I'm arguing about what Self-Preservation does to the specific hook → information → leave the hook → next chase interaction.
The same goes for whether my team was “always going to die” or whether I should have used Self-Preservation for stealth saves. That's discussing how I personally used the perk in one match rather than the design issue I'm pointing out.
My original post made several specific points that I don't think you've really addressed:
- Self-Preservation automatically activates when another Survivor is hooked, meaning the user doesn't have to make any decision or take any action to get its value.
- It can repeatedly provide 30 seconds of protection throughout the match.
- It specifically interferes with hook-based aura information such as BBQ, Friends 'til the End and Alien Instinct.
- Those aura perks can serve a healthy gameplay function by giving the Killer a reason to leave the hook and pursue another Survivor.
- If that information is repeatedly denied, the Killer has less information about where to go next, which can make staying around the hook comparatively more attractive.
- It can also synergize particularly well with a passive “let my teammates take the pressure while I stay hidden” playstyle.
- And that's why I think the old trigger, where Elusive activated around another Survivor being hit, had a healthier purpose: it was tied to an actual interaction and helped discourage the Killer from immediately converting one interaction into pressure on another Survivor.
You haven't really argued against those points. Instead, the discussion has mostly become “tunneling would still happen,” “your team might have died anyway,” and “stealth perks naturally allow ratting.”
I agree with some of those statements. They just don't disprove what I'm arguing.
I'm not saying stealth is inherently unhealthy. I'm not saying Survivors shouldn't counter Killer perks. I'm not saying BBQ should always get value. And I'm not saying Self-Preservation guarantees an escape.
I'm saying that the particular way Self-Preservation provides stealth—automatically and repeatedly after someone else gets hooked, while specifically suppressing information that is designed to direct the Killer toward another chase—is what I consider unhealthy.
If you have real arguments yourself why Self-Preservation isn’t unhealthy I’m open for that, but what you have said so far didn’t deny any of my points.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113305#Comment_4113305
Honestly your team was probably always gonna die if they can't loop a ghoul and it was partially your fault not because you had self-preservation but because you didn't leverage it to get stealth saves.
And no the killer has to chase and find survivors yes but survivors should put off that chase as long as possible to buy even more time, if you just run to the killer you're throwing.
Also you just described most survivor perks, you either don't have to do anything to activate them or the killer has to do something to activate them so I don't understanding singling out self-preservation for this.
I think we’re getting away from my actual point by discussing whether my team was “going to die anyway” or whether I could have used Self-Preservation for stealth saves.
I’m not arguing that Self-Preservation guarantees a win or that I personally couldn’t have used it better. I’m arguing about what the perk incentivizes and what its effect does to the Killer’s information.
If my team is getting hooked repeatedly and Self-Preservation repeatedly makes me immune to hook-based aura information, then I can remain outside the Killer’s attention while my teammates take the pressure. Whether my teammates were eventually going to die anyway doesn’t really address whether that is a healthy gameplay pattern.
And I agree with you that Survivors shouldn’t run toward the Killer for no reason. The point isn’t that Survivors should constantly seek chase. The point is that taking chase, extending a chase, rescuing, healing and creating pressure relief for your teammates are all important parts of Survivor teamplay. Stealth is also legitimate, but I think there’s a difference between choosing stealth and having a perk repeatedly make you extremely difficult to locate specifically whenever your teammates are hooked.
As for “most Survivor perks are passive,” I don’t think that’s the relevant distinction.
My problem isn’t simply that Self-Preservation is passive. It’s that its passive effect is:
- triggered automatically by another Survivor being hooked,
- lasts 30 seconds,
- can repeatedly activate throughout the match, and
- specifically interferes with the Killer’s hook-based information wich have the goal to lead the killer away form the hook.
A passive healing perk, for example, doesn’t suppress the Killer’s information after a hook. Self-Preservation does.
That’s why I’m singling it out.
And I’m not saying BBQ, Pain Res, No Way Out, etc. should be guaranteed value. Survivors should obviously counter Killer perks. My argument is that there’s a difference between “this perk has a counter” and “this counter creates a healthy gameplay pattern.”
My concern is that Self-Preservation can turn the hook → information → leave hook → chase another Survivor cycle into hook → no useful information → continue struggling to locate the stealthy Survivor → proxy camping
That’s one of the interactions I think that are problematic.
If you disagree with that, that’s completely fair, but then I’d rather discuss whether that particular interaction is healthy than whether my teammates were doomed anyway or whether I personally could have used the perk differently.
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@Xendritch said:
Your logic has a flaw in it which is while you can consider chase the fun part of the game which is fine it isn't the objective of the game. It sounds like from your example you got tremendous value from it being able to do almost 3 gens uninterrupted while it didn't actually prevent the ghoul from winning cuz you were still forced to get hatch so there didn't seem to be anything unfair in that interaction and if the ghoul over relies on BBQ that's on them.
Also let us not confuse a perk being considered healthy for the game like pain res and no way out with you must let it get value. They're still perks of the killer trying to well kill you and you should still try to counter it as much as you can and survive.
My examples: Yeah but while doing the 2 gens my entire team died. If i wouldnt had have that perk he might have had the opportunity to chase me and my team would have the chance to recover a bit. And the ghoul didn’t over relay on bbq it was chaos shuffle wich opened my eyes on how bad designed Self-Preservation actually is. The fact a single perk made me unfindable while my entire team dies and I profit form it is ridiculous.
For chase not being an objective, thats wrong: The killer has to chase his objective wich are the survivors and distracting the killer so everyone else can do gens or heal is an objective of survivors too.Pain res and No way out have a healthy design: 4 hooking to collect those advantages, you still need to do something to activate them, wich also shows another thing bad thing about Self-Preservation, you can equip it and it’s brained free since you as the user dont have to do anything to activate it. And since you didn’t had anything against 90% of my points on how badly designed Self-Preservation is, then I guess you had no real argument to defend the perk.
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@TropesDaMan said:
this can be quite nasty when unhooking with it as well, why? NO SCRATCH MARKS. you will just be standing there at the hook wondereing how tf this guy got unhooked when you didint see anyone. and you cant track them down either due to no scratch marks from both
If you see the unhooked person and the unhooker got elusive from that it encourages to tunnel too. Good point
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4106022#Comment_4106022
Some of the killer perks that give their value for doing absolutely nothing, or from survivor actions:Distressing, Iron Maiden Two Can Play, Coup de Grace, Pahntom Fear, Wretched Fate, Hoarder, Discordance, Haywire, Noed, Languid Touch, Stridor, Insidious, Haunted Ground, Undying, Crowd Control, Human Greed, Monitor and Abuse, Tinkerer, Rancor, Secret Project, Batteries Included, Superior Antaomy, Fire Up, Cruel Limits, Deerstalker, Spies From the Shadows, Overwhelming Presence, I'm All Ears, Iron Grasp, Weave Attunement, Enduring, Hubris, Shadowborn, Territorial Imperative, Knock Out, Overture of Doom, Ruin, Mind Breaker, Bitter Murmur, Dominance, Corrupt Intervention, and, next up, Celestial Witness.
That's not even all of them. Both sides get free stuff. Be mad at both or be mad at neither.
Most of them arent even good. Coup, corrupt and noed are for example good perks on their own but have requirements like only start pf the game or when last gen pops, but you don’t want to tell me that insidious or distressing are viable? And hexes like ruin can be broken. 90% of these perks I never face because no one runs them except in nice builds or adept.
on surv side you have windows (free aura), vigil (free recovery), do no harm and botany (free heal speed for existing), Deja (free gen speed and aura), Sprintburst (wich will still be good after the next changes), Five moves ahead (similar to windows +faster drop), Self Preservation (I already why ist unhealthy), resilience (just be injured for free speeds) and more. If we compare this to your mentioned killer perks, it shows that survivors have more zero effort strong perks than killers, in fact most killer perks that are good have requirements, like pain ress and TBTC need hooks. -
@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4106004#Comment_4106004
Thats a possible solution for that particular problem, but theres plenty of others. We have several killers that are good at guarding totems. Do we make singularity cameras see a black box around the totems and Artist crows scared to fly near them?
Here's an interesting one I saw recently. All shaking thunder is kinda garbage most of the time since you're kinda relying on taking a chase near a drop-off. If you use it on someone like Freddy however, you can trigger it and teleport across the map to USE it which kinda negates its drawback.
Agree kinda … guarding totems with cams as singularity can be dealed with with empa and artist crows are a project that don’t even stop your action. A better example would be something like Jason, because you can’t stop him just seeing you and appear. If we had more changes that would consider this and find solutions for them, it would be great.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4106010#Comment_4106010
I'm kinda shocked someone in 2026 is acting they've never heard this. It's a perk that gives value from you doing absolutely nothing. If the killer couldn't see the lobby you'd have an argument, but they get free build info, unlike survivors. And yeah, those flashlight build survivors can just be perkless and sit on gens, just like killers can maybe get less value from one perk and still use their eyes to find people. SP also isn't super useful if the killer isn't running specific aura, just like Lightborn isn't very useful with no flashlights.
Like I said, I'd decimate the top perks on both sides. If you want a real shake up then that's a real shake up, not these tiny number changes or niche nerfs that do nothing. "Corrupt is mandatory" is quite the take. I haven't used it in at least a year and I don't see it in every single one of my survivor matches. They're giving Coul, a niche perk, a minor nerf while buffing Nurse's, which is used in the same slug builds. And Infectious is the bigger problem anyway. The Coul nerf is borderline useless for its intended effect. Thrill needs a complete rework, as does the hex system in general. That's a larger issue. Dissolution is an issue on specific killers.
And some people DCed against Doctor because of seizures and Dredge cause they get headaches. Kind of a different topic.
A perk that gives value for doing nothing, like 50% of survivor perks? If you don’t try to blind the killer than the perk does absolutely nothing. And my games as survivor are 80% against corrupt so we live in different universes.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4105999#Comment_4105999
So Lightborn is a wasted slot even though you can see the lobby and decide to put it on, potentially shutting down whole builds and playstyles, but SP is unhealthy cause one or two people might counter one of your perks when they could have just dont so with a locker anyway? I honestly don't know how anyone defends Lightborn. It's can stay, I don't care, but it's the most unfair perk in the game.
I mean, just remember saying that. Because we had quite the chorus of angry people complaining Fast Track and Cross Examination into obliteration and many of them also like to complain about the stale meta. I myself complained about SB and Vigil and I'm also not happy to see survivor meta being nerfed while killer meta is (so-far) going untouched, aside from NtH.
I played with and against FT plenty and it made no difference in my matches. It's too situational. The skill checks are random, it could max out before you could use it, and if people are getting hooked that much you're probably cooked anyway. Full teams running it were very rare too. Good on paper isn’t necessarily OP in execution. I highly doubt it was overperforming.
Lightborn is unfair?! If the survivors don’t use their flashlights it’s absolutely useless. Even if it counters perks, it’s very specific and a killer pok slot (killer perks should be more powerful than survivors anyways because he has 4 and they have 16). And if so many people complained about FS and cross examination then it should proof my point. And what part of killer meta you would nerf? Pain res requires you to hook unique hooks for its full potential, corrupt is mandatory because it prevents early games where survs sit on 3 gens during your first chase (and help setup killers). Only perks on killer I would change are like Thrill (wich they do but not enough) and perks like dissolution (also slugging perks like coulrophobia).
Edit: Some people use lightborn because they get headaches from the blinded screen. -
@LordGlint said:
One thing that should be noted is often times when it comes to at least KILLER perks... something that is mildly good on one killer is problematic on another. Haywire for example is in its current mediocre state because Singularity could effectively use it to insure no one could open a gate with its original state.
Beyond that, we have so many perks and addons that you always run the risk of combos making them far stronger than they were intended and it can be difficult for any one person to predict every possible combo everytime they add more stuff to the game.
For example Nurse heavily restricting Aura perks, you simply could nurse the blindness effect while charging her power because perks like awakened awareness and Nowhere To hide suffer because of her. Another reason for more changes