Hailoh
Hailoh
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TL;DR: This map is killer-sided because survivors are locked to one side of the map or the other, which will end up getting used very quickly. However, there's still reasonable play from the survivor side, so it isn't a priority to get changed.
I think that there are two things that help survivors on this map:
1.) Lots of great places for stealth (Although not enough to really be oppressive)
2.) Some fairly safe, reliable landmarks, between the 2 maze tiles on top & bottom, as well as shack and the courtyard loop (Assuming you get a pallet with it.).
I still think this is a killer-sided map for these reasons:
1.) This map, like ARP & Suffo, open up survivors to some pretty nasty 3-gens, even 4-gens if you include the very unsafe main building gen. This is less of a problem since the kick changes, but this will get increasingly more problematic as the killer you play against gets stronger. It is also a pretty massive problem considering...
2.) A distinct lack of filler pallets, and an even greater lack of safe ones, all of which are harder to spot than usual because of aforementioned bushes. Luckily the maze tiles on either side of the map are reasonably close together, but if they're already used (Or if the survivors got unlucky and rolled bad ones), you can have a side of the map that is almost entirely dead. This is unlike its sister maps, ARP & Suffo, which have lots of very strong filler pallets, and more maze tile spawns.
3.) A lot of this map's real estate is taken up by the reasonably weak shrine & gazebo loops. The gazebo isn't terrible (The window is decent in some circumstances, and it can even spawn a fairly strong pallet), but the shrine is basically worthless and only serves to chain to another tile (Which, again, may not spawn for reasons above).
4.) Main building, being big and unsafe (Terrible windows and 2 terrible pallets), makes it almost impossible for survivors to chain the top and bottom sides of the map unless they have an unreasonable amount of distance or take an injure. This is especially bad considering 2.). This is unlike ARP & Suffo, which have a very strong middle of the map to chain between the two sides.
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Reasonably balanced, even if it does lean to the survivors' favor. Very reliable spawns, a strong top and bottom side of the map, and lots of good places to stealth. However, killer players still have a very healthy 3-gen that can spawn along the top side of the map, and there aren't any super-strong combos that can spawn anywhere. I don't think this map should ever change.
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Here's some video of me attempting this challenge. It didn't give me the tome. I'm willing to accept the fact that I did it wrong, but they should probably make the wording a little more clear.
https://youtu.be/nPSQnW636nI================================================
EDIT: After this match, I got yet another video that I think is an even better example. I got in chase with the killer, immediately jumped into a locker, waited until I didn't even hear terror radius, let alone chase music (You can also see the "ESCAPED" score event), and I still didn't get the tome. Something is wrong here.
https://youtu.be/GRJF3Kui2Ig -
Honestly, perks aren't the solution to protecting yourself from flashlight saves; Awareness is. Things like faking a pickup or facing a wall will keep you safe from flashlights. Let the survivors waste their time by chasing you around with their skill sticks trying to get you into their sick montage.
With that being said, if you're still having trouble, Infectious is the better choice between these two. Infectious will cover more bases than just protecting you from saves, and just does Lightborn's job but better. Again, awareness is the counter.
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@Seiko300 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1161198#Comment_1161198
I like where your heads at, but when I hear you say "items that help [survivors] in chases" all kinds of alarms go off in my head. It's a nice concept don't get me wrong, but the way that the game is currently paced around survivors constantly running loops and especially good ones who can run the entire game I don't think they need these kinds of tools.
Possibly, because the way you phrased the ideas make these items sound pretty non-aggressive, (a trip wire that can ONLY reveal the aura of a killer rather than slow them down in a chase / a smoke bomb that ONLY makes it difficult to see rather than stun a killer a la firecrackers). I think it'd be very cool to see people make stealth plays while injured running iron will, urban evasion, etc. and just disappear into the smoke would be crazy, or maybe drop a smoke bomb right in front of a hook while the killer is carrying someone to give you a better chance to sabotage a hook.
I see some cool application, but I also see potential abuse for the idea from really good survivors who are toxic.
I think that items like these should be supplemented with overall survivor nerfs, just to be clear. I did think that these were interesting, though.
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I've always been on the fence with this one. The bonus it provides is good, but:
a) You won't always get use out of it, either if not all the gens get done or if you're already healthy and not in a chase when it procs.
b) You have to play the rest of the game with 2 perks.
Adrenaline is good, and I've started using it a lot more since Ruin got nerfed into the ground, but it still has its noticeable weaknesses. I don't think it's underrated nor overrated.
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There's a surprising absence of items that actually help in a chase. Flashlights sort of help, medkits sort of help, keys sort of help, but there's no item that's actually dedicated to chases. I think that something like a smoke bomb would be really dope.
I also like the idea of a trip-wire. Something that can be set up that, when the killer steps through it, will reveal the killer's aura. Just throwing some ideas out there.
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@ddubuckyee_user said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1082252#Comment_1082252
Uh ... is there something wrong?
Oh, I see what's going on. I thought that these comments were poking fun at eachother, saying that "All survivors are this skill level, all killers are this other skill level."
This post wasn't to ask what category people fell into, it was to ask what defines a player in those categories. I'll put in an edit.
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I haven't really decided on a main yet to be honest. The only killers I've played a fair amount of have been Trapper, Hag, Bubba, Wraith, Legion and Doc. Out of all of them, I probably enjoyed Legion or Doc the most.
I've been having a lot of (guilty) fun with Spirit recently, though. Overall, I'd lean towards Legion, though.
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Short chases.
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Honestly, I just want more original characters. They hype me up more than any licensed character.
If I had to choose, though, I think that FNaF should stay far, far away from this game.
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@GHOSTfaceP3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1068768#Comment_1068768
we just need something at the start of the game to slow down gens until we find someone..I know corrupt helps a lot with that but I still get gen rushed with this perk at times
Oh, I absolutely agree. I've always thought that an early game slowdown was necessary. It's one of the reasons I was so mad about the Ruin nerf lmao.
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@Todgeweiht said:
My idea is that only 2 generators can be worked at once, the rest are blocked by the entity until someone finishes repairing it or leaves it, gens blocked by the entity regress at 50% the normal regression rate
This seems a bit overkill imo. Maybe if the two open gens had an aura?
Regardless, I'm still partial to Jund's idea.
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Really it depends heavily on the killer, but more times than not I'd lean towards STBFL.
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Bad, but definitely going in the right direction.
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Usually:
3+ Escapes = Survivor Win
3+ Kills = Killer Win
2 Kills, 2 Escapes = Draw
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Are we ever going to see the killer & survivor hinted at in Tome I of the Archives?
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@pjfontillas said:
This is a long - and good - analysis just to say we should have voice chat in-game. Everyone is SWF from a communication POV. Prefer solo play? Sure, stay quiet. So long as it's not 1v1v1v1v1 instead of 1v4. But that solution would kill perks like Bond. Or at least relegate it to a training wheel perk.
This was something I thought about. Aura reading perks would essentially be slammed into the dirt if this change were to take place, and they would all need a pretty good rework.
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@Tisfine said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/967669#Comment_967669
I. Sorry, but 3-4 man rates are low. Why we have to balance the majority of players to an unfair group is even more of a no to me. I'll take buffing the killer against SWF over changing the game's entire balance because of the minority.
Buff aren't exclusive to changing numbers in Killer mechanics it could be something else. Maybe a second offering with it's own special buffs for the killer to personally choose from. Be it, Sixth gen, A fifth perk, More bloodpoints to compensate for going against these guys. That's just an idea on top of my head, Not my job to think of fixes for the game but I can say that they should think of a different balance when a killer goes against a 3-4 Man.
Note that I said 3-4 man because anything below that number is perfectly fine and doesn't deserve any buffs for the killer. I also don't care if you're having fun, I highly doubt you keep your lips closed for information when the team needs it no? When you have communication you're inevitably going to use it to spread information to the rest of the gang.
II. Again as I mentioned. Why change everyone when the game at it's current state IS balanced for the most part. The balance assumes that there is no communication for the survivors. You literally have to rework most of the game's balance just because of a low percentage in the player base.
III.Game is not Esport material. You know what happened to a game that's a 1 v 4 that the devs thought their game was Esport material? It died. That's evolve. Dead by daylight is casual competitive, You can have competitive aspects to it but thinking its going to be up there with actual Competitive games like Dota 2 or whatever is hilarious. When the game has serious balance issues with SWF. It's not gonna work.
IV. So what nerf are you suggesting? Assuming communication gets handed to everyone. What are you gonna suggest to make it even for the killer? There's only so much you could do with the game vanilla. You would have to rework the game from the ground up so that the entire game is built around communication in mind which is the exact opposite of the current state of DBD.
I. Buffing the killer against SWF is my whole point. Right now, you can't change SWF without changing solo survivor as well (Unless you give the killer buffs depending on whether or not a SWF is in the group, but I've touched on that before and don't plan on touching on it again. TL;DR: Assuming an optimal SWF is too broad of an assumption to make.). Making every team a pseudo-SWF would make balancing the game a lot more linear, instead of having to do backwards changes to change SWF OR Solo Survivor without changing both. This one change would open the door to killer and survivor balancing without having to worry about the difference between solo survivor and SWF.
II. First things first, this game is not balanced. There are certain maps, perks, killers, items and addons that are all in desperate need for balancing (Put a Bubba against 4 Commodious toolboxes on Ormond and tell me that's balanced. It's just not.). But even assuming it is, SWF still needs to be taken into account. Even though SWF is a minority, they are a recognizable minority. I've always believed in balancing around all points of a feature. That includes its weakest, its average, and most importantly, its strongest. If you got 3 competent friends with good items and good perks, and you had a 99% chance of winning that game, then what's the point of playing in the first place? It's frustrating for the killer. It gets old for the survivors. That's how a game dies, when one team has the ability to effectively secure a win, while the other team has no tools to stop it. That's true for many things in this game, and optimal SWF is one of them.
III. DBD is certainly not ESports material in its current state, but who's to say it can't be? Who's to say that players shouldn't be able to go head to head with one another to see who can come out on top? Who's to say that we can't choose the best killer players in the entire game, the best survivors, the best survivor teams? I have a competitive mindset, and I dream of this kind of stuff. I know I'm not the only one out there.
IV. Well, the first thing that comes to mind is to nerf survivor-sided maps. Some maps are too big and take too long to patrol (Mother's Dwelling comes to mind. Rotten Fields as well.), some maps have too many safe pallets (Ormond, Blood Lodge), some maps are way too good for immersion (Yamaoka, Swamp.), etc.. Another idea is to nerf certain items that survivors have at their disposal, like keys and toolboxes (Perhaps in compensation for buffing things like Maps and Medkits?). You could also increase the amount of time it takes to repair a generator, have more consequences for staying injured vs. healing, and more things alone those lines. The game doesn't need to be completely rebalanced around communication, because communication (While strong) would just be another feature. Sure, some serious nerfs would need to happen in exchange for this, but not on a scale that's completely unreasonable.
@JawsIsTheNextKiller said:
One thing I love about the solo survivor experience is the atmosphere. The survivor side was designed to make you feel a bit scared, not knowing who the killer is, where the killer is and what is going on at the other side of the map and to ultimately feel that you probably won't escape.
Playing as part of an SWF feels like a lesser game, it loses the atmosphere, turning it into an (admittedly fun) party game. Being part of a coordinated team where you are probably going to win seems wrong to me. I am glad it is not the default.
[I love your name btw. lol.]
I also think that players should have the option to toggle this feature on and off, precisely for people like you who value atmosphere over balance (Which is perfectly reasonable, as I think that both are important. Personally I value the latter, but it's just personal preference.).
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While BBQ is a good perk, honestly, people only use it for the 2x BP. But with that being said, I don't know if it's better or worse than Discordance.
What I DO believe, however, is that Discordance is better than Whispers. It's much more accurate than Whispers, and it makes patrolling generators much easier. Not to mention that it has much more killer/perk synergy than Whispers does.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/967680#Comment_967680
The thing is that what you propose is technicly already possible, the minute before a match is enough time to share each others discord if you really want to
I do agree that this game is a balancing nightmare because of their being 3 teams and that's a good thought process to have
The solution just isn't that simple i'm afraid
This is a good theoretical thought, but I have never seen people share discords in public chats in a little over 800 hours of playtime (Let's say 650 of that was survivor).
I agree that the solution is much more complex than just giving all survivors communication, but I think that this, along with many other things, is a step in the right direction. In-Game VC: Part of a Balanced Breakfast!
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@Sonzaishinai said:
While it is true that in theory it would be easier to balance, in practise it would solve nothing
I know i would instantly disable being able to voicecom with other people and plenty of others would too
Not to even mention having to hear toxic people insult you, this game is suppose to be a horror game and hearing other people talk completly destroys what little horror athmosphere there is left
I would disable it and i can guess plenty of other people would too, and then we are back at square one
This was something I thought about a lot when I was writing this. Obviously there would need to be an option to disable this feature (Streamers wouldn't want people just screeching on their streams, for example. Not to mention the previous points you brought up.).
Here's the little bit of solace that I can provide:
- I've been in a lot of toxic games, games that are much worse than this one. People who are toxic in voice chat are far fewer than those who are toxic through their keyboard (i.e.: Typing or gameplay). And regardless, this could still be solved by either disabling survivor-killer communication, or not implementing it at all.
- Don't get me wrong. I really want this game to be a horror game. But realistically, if this game were to be a horror game, it would have to do a complete 180 and change a LOT. And a lot of those changes would come at the cost of balance. And in my eyes, I'd take a well balanced/non-scary game over a poorly balanced/scary game any day of the week. The former has a lot of longevity, and a lot of opportunities to grow. The latter is fun for a couple hours, but it will get really old once you get farther into the game. And no one wants to spend $20+ on a game that's fun for a couple of hours.
- I doubt that a majority of people would have this feature permanently turned off. And if they do, and chose to give themselves that handicap, then more power to them. But only time would tell.
Even given these points, I do see what you said as being completely valid.
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@NoShinyPony said:
Can you give us a tl;dr?
Hey, that means I did my job right! I usually make these posts too short lol
TL;DR: Giving all survivors in-game voice chat would make it easier to balance the game, as we'd be dealing with two teams as opposed to three.
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@Tisfine said:
Or you change the conditions when you're against a 3-4 man teams. Slap some boost for the killer when the game detects its a full party and you're golden.
There's literally no reason to balance either teams around SWF. When the game is balanced for the most part when a team of randoms is against a killer.
Giving in game microphone access to everyone would destroy the killer permanently, A killer has to work with the assumption that he could disrupt information that's getting thrown around the game. This is not CSGO, This is a 1 v 4 game, Mate.
I. I never believed in the theory of buffing the killer when a SWF is in the match. The first problem is that the type of buff would have to be really unorthodox to reasonably work, because few things would be universal for most killers. You could buff movement speed, but that's not really going to help a killer like the Nurse. You could reduce power cooldown time, but how would that help the Trapper? You could let the killer see every survivor's aura at any given moment, but then aura reading perks would be near-useless. Not to mention that once you buff a killer too much, it could have repercussions on the length of chases, and if the chases are too short, then what's the point in having them? But let's just say you find the best "boost" to give the killer. This certainly stops fully-optimal SWF in their tracks, but this severely hinders SWF that are just trying to have some plain fun. The purple ranks that brought their new friend who just got the game. The full Head-On squad. The group of people who are trying to win, but aren't spewing commands at eachother the whole match. This change would make casual SWF a thing of the past, and force survivors into a sweaty, competitive mess.
II. There's actually a good reason to balance around SWF. Like I said earlier, as it currently stands, reasonably changing SWF requires changing survivors as a whole, which would inadvertently change solo survivor.
III. Balancing the game around randoms is good for a casual game, but squashes any competitive potential into the ground. Tournaments and ESports wouldn't really be an option with this mentality, and that's not good for the game's growth. At least in my eyes, this would make the game a lot more boring. There should always be the option to play casually OR competitively. Having one or the other isn't enough.
IV. I sort of agree, and I sort of disagree. In survivor's current state, yes. Giving every survivor the ability to communicate with one another would give them a huge, undeniable advantage, and would make the game really difficult for the killer. But I wrote this with the mindset that survivors would get nerfed overall, with the compensation of having communication. These nerfs would have less impact on solo survivor, but more impact on SWF (Which is what we're after.). The devs could increase repair time, reduce the number of pallets on the map, really anything. That's not my place to say, I'm not trying to make the point of what that nerf would be, as that's a completely different post that I am nowhere near qualified to create.
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@DwarvenTavern said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/943532#Comment_943532
Alright, that's actually really cool. I just swf wouldn't ideas like these.
I'm actually pretty confident that the SWF problem is fixed. The survivor being hooked can't tell where they are in relation to the other survivors, and the saving survivors can't tell where the hooked survivor is.
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@DwarvenTavern said:
A friend and I had an idea similar to this, but not in this great detail. May I ask about grabbing an injured survivor? What do you exactly mean by that? Like, when they're injured and you just tap M1 you instantly pick them up? Even when they're just standing? Or when they're in the dying state? Don't get me wrong, love the idea. I'm just curious
Don't worry, I just worded it in a way that was kind of strange. That, and I actually have two ideas for how to implement this, but they both accomplish the same thing.
The first is the weaker option. When The Siren is standing near an injured survivor (At a similar distance that you would need to grab a survivor out of a vault, or to kill someone with tombstone Myers, for example.), the survivor will be grabbed and put onto the killer's shoulder.
The second, and stronger option, is to replace the hit on the Siren's M1 in Feast with a grabbing-lunge. In this example, the range to grab is much longer than the former option, as it is the same range as a lunge, as opposed to the range of a grab out of a vault.
This is important, because the Siren needs to obscure dying state auras in her base kit in order to make Mimic Survivors usable (After all, if you saw the survivor's aura when they went down, you would be able to more accurately guess where they got hooked.). If she can grab the survivor straight out of the injured state without having to put them into the dying state, then it would solve the problem.
TL;DR: Yes. M1'ing next to an injured survivor will put them immediately onto your shoulder, even if the survivor is just standing, walking, running, etc..
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@ba_tetsuo said:
Add one line to make it good against swf:
When a survivor is picked up or on a hook, their screen is black
This. This right here. I love this.
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JAWS CHAPTER POGGERS
Can you imagine the ######### shark on land just walking around with his fins
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Spirit & Hag are the only two that ever really bother me.
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@LemeTheMeme said:
I think the devs are trying to stay away from anything that SWF can abuse. With comms, this killers power is useless.
However, I really love the idea and that it's not exactly the killer that can turn into a survivor. As a solo survivor, I think it'd be really fun to play against it, but when SWF is added, it would get frustrating for killers I bet.
Really cool idea though!
I thought about SWF while making this power. And while I think that there is definitely room for improvement, their power isn't entirely useless. Incapacitate and the Recovery increase are still factors that should be taken into account. But I do agree that there is still work to be done to make sure that SWF can't just stomp her into the ground.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/941737#Comment_941737
You can always find and test them yourself, but from what I've heard all 10 codes were found and redeemed long ago.
Yeah, about what I expected. Thanks for the response, though. <3
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But how can we tell how many codes are left?
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Probably Otz.
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Here's my thing. I think he's perfectly balanced from a strength standpoint, and I'm really REALLY glad that he got the buff he deserved. He 100% doesn't deserve an overall nerf.
But there's another side to this. Snares are just kind of brainless for both sides. It just turns into "Throw the pallet early and keep running" the game. It doesn't make pallets unmindgameable, but more often than not the best option is to drop the pallet and keep running. It's a similar thing to Clown. This isn't a big issue, and it isn't something that needs to be urgently changed.
Forever Freddy is a bigger problem. Not because of its strength (Not to say that it's weak), but just because it's so slow. Forever Freddy games can easily last 20 minutes, which is twice as long as a game really should last. Long games mean that the killer has many more opportunities to make mistakes, and they can still be rewarded for when they do finally make a good play just because of how long the game is going to be. I always have a problem with this kind of thing, where the skill of the player matters so little just because of a build (It's one of the problems I have with survivors. Just because you can hold M1 doesn't mean you're good at the game. It's not interactive for anyone.).
Those are really the only two nitpicks I have with Freddy. I like Dream Pallets, I like the teleport, I like microsleep, I love everything they did with him. Those are the only two things, really. And to be fair, the former isn't really a big deal, and the latter wasn't even intentional, so I can't really rip on the devs too much.
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@S_Panda said:
Another choice is botany knowledge, gives 33% efficiency and speed up of healing. Then you can also have 33% faster healing on allies without wasting your medkit on them.
I noticed this as well, but BK is usually pretty commonplace when it comes to healing builds. Streetwise is a bit more unorthodox, which is why I bring it up.
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People seem to forget that Coldwind has some of the highest survivor escape rates out of any map. More than Haddonfield, more than Autohaven, etc..
This realm is MASSIVE. For killers without a good mobility option, these maps are crippling in travel time alone. And considering how important time management is as killer, having to put a lot of your time into moving around the map is huge. Torment Creek, Rancid Abattoir and Fractured Cowshed have super safe windows that are really hard to counter, and Thompson House has a gen that lets survivors know you're coming from 10 minutes away. All of these maps have a lot of options for survivors, but not so many options for killers.
Oh, and one more thing.
CORN
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I want to see one of the Lost Tapes survivors more than anything else tbh.
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@Todgeweiht said:
Well, guess im toxic for thinking neither are OP
^This
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Here's my thought process on moris:
Make the Ebony act like the Ivory.
Remove the Ivory.
Keep Cypress the same, but make it common.
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Tunneling isn't inherently wrong, it just needs to be done in moderation. If the killer is behind on gens, they NEED to get someone out of the game to keep their head above water. Tunneling for the sake of tunneling is just... rude. But doing it when you have no other choice is fine.
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If your idea to stop gen-rushing is to remove the only slightly skill-based part of the objective, then your idea needs to take a turn in another direction. Great skill checks separate bad players from good players. Even if it's just in a small way. It makes the objective a little less mind-numbing and a little more involved.
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Look, here's the thing. I really WANT Dorgan to be more viable. I really do. Because I love him, he's my favorite killer in the game. But Hag just has tools and resources that Dorgan just... doesn't. She can put SO much pressure on one part of the map, and she can play the game so that the map feels really small, to the point where everything important is in such a small space that she can capitalize on it.
Don't get me wrong. Dorgan is good. He has good tracking, good overall map pressure, ok chase options, etc.. But Hag's centralized playstyle puts her over Dorgan.
A killer that is decent at multiple things still isn't as good as a killer that is REALLY good at one thing, especially when that one thing is lethality. It's the reason Doctor falls short. He has some ok tools at his disposal for pretty much anything, but it doesn't add up to anything important.
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1.) You could make an argument for adding time on generators, but it's not really necessary. The reason gen-rush happens is because weaker killers (Whether that's lower skilled or lower on the tier list) can't get downs fast enough to distract survivors. This is less a problem with the gens themselves, and more a problem with the balance on killers. It would be a better idea to buff weaker killers instead of nerfing gen speed.
2.) The hatch is in place to give the final survivor a chance at escape if their teammates didn't contribute to the objective. Obviously, there's always that one guy who stealths around the map all game, only to get the hatch, but more often than not, the last survivor deserves it.
3.) Keys on the other hand have no reason to be in the game the way they are now, and I fully endorse this idea. I think that they should either focus more on living aura reading, or there should be an animation for opening the hatch with the key that would take, say, 15 seconds.
4.) Moris are fun, don't get me wrong. But giving any player the option to lead the depip squad isn't a good idea. This is why I agree with getting rid of the Ebony (Ultra-rare) mori. It gives the killer way more power than they need, and someone who's even mildly competent can crush a game with it. The Ivory (Rare) mori should probably takes its place in the Ultra-Rare category. The Cypress (Uncommon), on the other hand, deserves to stay right where it is. It's good at doing exactly what it's supposed to: Showing off an animation. That's all it needs to do, and it does it well (It's also perfect for dailies!).
5.) The syringe is getting nerfed in the next patch, along with the Styptic. No real need to talk about this, both are good ideas.
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@Springey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/733435#Comment_733435
I hope we will get to know about that more in the archives.
I second this. Super, SUPER excited for those to come out.
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@Springey said:
My own thought is that survivors share and talk about their 'abilities', like for example Claudette could tell the others how to heal themselves or what they can use to speed up the heal process.
I always assumed that the lost tapes got recorded by past survivors (or by survivors who still are in the realm but not playable) to pass on useful tips ('abilities').
Actually, given that Baker mentions the bloodweb itself in his journals, I think that it's a canonical thing, as in something the survivors interact with in the same way that we do. How perks fit into it, I'm not sure. But in one way or another, survivors can put their abilities onto the bloodweb. Obtaining them is the only part we understand.
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@Gato_Loco said:
They could be still in the entity realm playing the trials, or they could be in the void after died many times
Another idea I hadn't really considered before. A lot of people have pointed this out to me on Reddit, actually. And yes, unfortunately, I agree with them. As much as I want the First Generation to have found the way out, it's not realistic.
With that being said... We can give them a little bit of hope, can't we? Only thing to do is wait and see.
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@HellCatJane said:
So. The issue is this perk is seriously overpowered. It is VERY strong. Making it a challenge or not easy to activate is kind of the point I think. With that said, I do also think certain protection hits should count which don't currently. And that seems to be more the issue than anything else, imo. And I think they should really fix that. Which if they did this then the perk may become more easily obtained... and may or may not even need a tweak when/if that happens.
No matter what it has to take a certain amount effort to achieve in order to be balanced.
I agree and kind of disagree. I've said this a few times, but the idea of just having an extra hit is really interesting. It's not really overpowered, because it could really go in either direction (It could get burned right off the bat or at the most critical moment.). But it is strong, regardless. I do agree that it needs to be difficult to obtain, but protection hits just aren't the way to go.
Making protection hits easier to obtain isn't the problem with the perk. The problem is that you need to base your entire strategy around it in order for it to do so (Both in playstyle and build.). I've played games where getting the hits wasn't buggy or anything, it was just really inconvenient, to the point where the extra hit just isn't useful.
If this perk is going to be changed, it needs to be a balance of difficulty. Not so hard so that it's effectively impossible to get it to proc, but hard enough that it isn't just OG MoM. Personally, I think that this idea accomplishes both of these things, along with a lot more interesting twists.
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@Luigifan64 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/719162#Comment_719162
The safe unhook wasn’t the problem with that change, the problem was that they applied 2 things that made the perk better than before (that being gaining stacks through safe unhooks AND being able to use the perk when uninjured). They unfortunately doubled down and removed both, making the perk worthless instead of just removing one to make the perk usable but not OP.
I disagree. I think that getting three unhooks is just as possible as getting three hits. Obviously it depends on the killer, but each can be relatively easy.
But that's not the main problem I have with this change. It would encourage multiple survivors to rush hooks instead of doing objective. Perks that encourage overly altruistic play styles are fun and all, but not really good for serious gameplay. Not the kind of perk that we should be going after. Sure, this wouldn't really be a problem if one person is running the perk, but what about 2? 3? All 4? It would be a madhouse of farming. That's not healthy, that's not fun. Perks shouldn't cause people to choose between throwing the game or losing a perk slot.
Do I think this change is better than OG MoM and the current MoM? Absolutely. But it can certainly be improved upon.
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@bendermac said:
Stop trying to make the perk work in that way to get a free health state. The perk needs a complete rework, meaning a whole new function needs to be made. That's it.
I actually really like the free health state mechanic. It's really unique to the perk, and it's one of the things I wanted to preserve, that and the whole idea of "Evil always has a way of finding you". Honestly, as long as it's not too too easy to get, I don't think that an extra health state would be a problem.
What should it do instead of give a new health state?