GonnaBlameTheMovies
GonnaBlameTheMovies
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I think in light of the different buffs that have been given to generator progression on Survivor side?
Yes. Eruption can have its timer reverted. And some lesser gen perks like CoB could even be given more strength. Just please never ever ever bring back Incapacitated.
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@TheSubstitute said:
That could be one of the reasons it went up. It still doesn't change that a mechanic that unfairly advantages one side needs to be examined and corrected. Take, for example, the games where Otz had people play against Skull Merchant in the Erupting Call of Overbrine era and they couldn't break the 3 gen. It was an unfair advantage and got corrected. Another example was pre 6.1 DH for distance that unfairly elevated escape rates.
If my experience holds true to BHVR's playtesters then tunnelling is the same sort of situation and it provides an unfair advantage that needs to be corrected. Then BHVR can balance if needed. Based off of my experience I don't know if any changes would be needed as the escape rate was overall 44% in the games without tunnelling. It doesn't appear that tunnelling is needed and that it's more people say that because they want a win rate that is significantly greater than that of their opponents (which is the definition of an unbalanced game) and that's why they defend tunnelling.
You have to consider WHY there is tunnelling more now than before. I don't think it has anything to do with wanting a higher kill rate at all, and everything to do with the fact a lot of Killers feel they have no choice because generator regression got nerfed… but generator PROGRESSION on Survivor side wasn't touched. In fact, it was even buffed. So now we have the same issue but in reverse again. It is now currently possible with the right builds to do THREE GENERATORS in one chase even if the Killer plays perfectly, does not hard commit, does not tunnel, does not focus out, and does not do anything incorrect with their power - unless you're an Instant Down Killer like Ghostface or something and the Survs don't see you coming. Even then a good team can punish you.
So of course in light of all that even good Killers fall back on tunnelling. It's the most basic way to get someone out of the game fast when you can functionally start in the first 5 minutes at only 2-3 gens left to go. Like yeah no wonder tunnelling in your games went from 5.6% to 26% - Killers feel they have literally, literally no other option because there really isn't any way to slow that early game down left anymore. And early game is when Survivors are, literally, the strongest since all map resources remain. How exactly do you expect the average Killer to outplay that? They aren't gods.
And as you said, if BHVR thinks this is an issue, they will do something when they find a way to fix it that isn't a straight nerf for one side and buff for the other. But since nobody at BHVR has chimed in yet to state this is an issue, and they never have and likely never will? It's probably not that big an issue, unintended, or as big a problem as you have stated it is in multiple threads.
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
BHVR nuking nearly every single Gen Regression perk lead to a surge of killers tunneling
This is very true, I feel like some of the weaker regression and hold needs to be buffed to compensate. I mean I'm running Thrilling comboed with Grim and still ending up getting genrushed by coordinated teams, it's absolutely an issue. But at the same time I think the strong gen perks are in a good spot, and wouldn't want them buffed more. I just want more options and strength for more flexibility, so I don't feel like I need Grim-Thrilling on every M1 Killer to stand a chance. And I feel like I'm cheating a bit as Surv when I throw on a green toolbox or the equivalent AND something like Potential Energy, surely gens should not be so easy to hypercharge?
I think if they will not buff gen perks, they need to maybe nerf the effectiveness of some of the toolboxes or some perks? It's absurd you can throw on Hyperfocus or Potential Energy, then also run gen charge reduction perks, then also run a Commodious box with BNP spool and your friends have perks that reduce charges too to have 20 charges, with 10 of those reduced, and it only takes about 50 seconds. No wonder Killers feel stressed and like they need to tunnel!
Reduce the effectiveness of anything above a yellow toolbox on gens, or specialize them more. Surely a toolbox that can push gens hard does not also need to be able to sabotage, and surely a sabo box does not also need to be able to push generators really fast. If not, make it so commodious box has less charges but pushes faster, and sabo boxes do gens about as fast as a brown but have the buffed sabo. Different tools for different goals.
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I've had a few lag issues since Lara Croft, but it's starting to cool down.
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@hermitkermit said:
I don't think killer mains 'hate' survivors, but many are definitely frustrated, and as you've probably noticed in your post, sometimes to the point of just throwing out personal insults. While game stats show killers are in a strong position, many killer mains reject these stats, arguing that killers are still weak and need buffs. I struggle with this because while stats aren't everything, completely dismissing them makes it impossible to justify any changes.
I don't agree with this, but a common belief is that Killers are not good, but that all survivors are just bad.
As a solo main, it's clear that expecting four strangers to play flawlessly doesn't happen, and it isn't realistic, nor do I think they should be required to play without making a single mistake or to only be able to survive if they've dedicated thousands of hours, or money for certain perks to counter playstyles that are not dependent upon perks. But that's less of a DBD problem and more of a typical "Pay to Win" problem in many games these days. Regardless, dismissing balance issues as purely a 'skill' problem oversimplifies the game's complexity. SWF is often used as a defense for certain demands, but just like using Nurse to justify changes, it's not fair to base decisions on the extremes of the player base. The game should consider the majority, not just the exceptions.
To put it simply, I don’t think killer mains or the Devs hate survivors. Killer is the selling point of the game, and it's designed for killers to be in the power role. Perfect balance would undermine the horror aspect, so survivors need to accept that they’ll lose more often. If they don't like it, they can play a different game or switch to killer, it's not meant to be "fair" in a traditional game sense. On the flip side, killers need to accept that they hold the stronger role and aren't as oppressed as they might feel.
This is one of the most sane takes I've read this whole thread.
Yes. Killer Mains should accept they are no longer helpless or powerless. The only changes Killers need, and the only ones BHVR is doing, are QoL and basekit addons which are minor buffs to make the character feel better at best. And also that they are not intended to always 4k. 60% is an acceptable rate of kills, why do you always need repeated 4ks to be happy?
Just like Survivor Mains need to accept that yes, the game is intentionally Killer-sided, it's a horror game, Surviving is hard and you may not always escape. 40% is an acceptable escape rate. Why do you need more escapes more frequently to be happy?
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793527#Comment_3793527
It's not an intended gameplay feature as seen by the Emblem system and all the perks where BHVR gives incentives to not tunnel. Anything that gives a disproportionate effect in a video game for minimal effort is a crutch. Tunnelling qualifies. It's no different than being in an FPS where one gun does 300% more damage than any other; it doesn't mean the player with the 300% gun is necessarily more skilled. It means they're using a crutch to their advantage.
If it were not an intended gameplay feature then the Devs would have removed it. The benefit it gives is as a comeback mechanic.
I agree tunnelling from the word go needs to be made weaker. Tunnelling midgame is fine, you're just upset you got outplayed halfway through when you are all in a strong position with nobody out yet. This is how Killers start snowballs; snowballs are part of the game.
Please get over yourself and just put on the antitunnel perks if this really happens to you all the time. Maybe wear less obviously bright cosmetics. Killer Mains are not all out to get you, and intended gameplay is not a crutch, I am not arguing with you or anyone else about how the game is intentionally designed by developers.
I guess if you hate the game this much that intended design elements are not okay to you? Play something else. This may not be the game for you if you can't handle being targeted by another player occasionally. And yes, it is occasionally, it DOES NOT statistically happen as much as you think it does and I can pull up my other stats post I did here to prove it.
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@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792825#Comment_3792825
All it takes is playing 10 rounds of survivor, especially solo q, and when you see camping, tunneling, and 9 out of 10 matches ending quickly with an 4K win, it's understandable why so many survivors complaining.
After all, survivors always have the bonus to play the game which certifies an imbalance at play.
I think there would be more complaints than they are but the community has a tendency to shame and throw their arms up to say "survivors are just bad" but that is not the problem.
Huh? Genuinely not my experience as Survivor. No, not even in SoloQ… then again, I run antitunnel and do my best to loop well, so I just don't have this issue much. It's the exception I get tunneled, camped, or quick-4ked, not the rule.
I play as much Survivor as Killer before you even ask. I play both SoloQ and SWF, though more often at least partial SWF. Everyone I know feels similar and is similar. This issue is way, way, way overblown.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792737#Comment_3792737
The problem with your argument is that the exact same thing (except for the length of time) applies to Killer. While Survivor did have crutches with pre 6.1 DH, release CoH, etc it's now the crutches are gone, that's in the past, and there are Killers, a minority but a significant minority, who are relying on crutches such as tunnelling as their failsafes.
Rather than being us vs them and attempting to bring up a past history that no longer currently applies it would be healthier if there were no crutches for either side so the exact same thing applies to Killers. It's time to learn the macro game, learn when to drop chase and when to continue, how to apply gen pressure, stop applying crutches such as tunnelling and put yourself in the MMR category you deserve to be at instead of being carried to higher MMR levels due to said crutches.
What crutches where? The only crutches Killers have literally ever had are the generator perks, which I agree, were too much when stacked together. Over the course of the history of this game, Survivors have pretty much always had their crutch perks for much longer than Killers get them. Every time. Every patch. That only changed with the 6.1 patch and again with recent changes.
Tunnelling is not a crutch, it's an intended gameplay feature. There are perks to deal with it. You cannot call intended gameplay features crutches. Gen control perks are not a gameplay feature, you can play without them. Tunnelling is a basekit tool INTENDED by devs, the same as how pushing gens to be done is a basekit tool INTENDED by the devs. Your argument here is apples and oranges of what we're actually discussing which is perks used to crutch. Basic gameplay just cannot ever be considered a crutch, it's basic gameplay.
Your second paragraph is also moot. Most Killers already KNOW how to drop chase, the macro game, how to apply gen pressure, and do what they need to do, nobody except the most babiest of baby Killers doesn't know how to do all this stuff instinctively. That's just called playing Killer. Applying tunnelling is one of the things that a good Killer does to play the macro effectively when they are perhaps low on generators and have nobody out yet, or when they feel that protecting gens further is a liability; anyone doing it from the start is a baby Killer and you should be able as a good Survivor to reliably handle that. It's time to stop pretending basic, intended gameplay tools are crutches or bad, they are not. If tunnelling were really as big a crutch as you said instead of an intentional gameplay feature, BHVR would have nerfed it by now. Heavily. As of now, the only thing BHVR has nerfed around tunnelling is the most egregious form of it - doing it from the start. It doesn't really need more nerfing. If you're this bothered by it, it's time to run perks or rely on teamwork to deal with it, friend. :) There are several tools to choose from, pick any of them.
I would argue right now the only things that currently need addressing and therefore may be considered crutches are Weave-Franklin's, like one item on Surv side, some addons that should be basekit or addressed on some Killers, and maybe a few perks on Survivor side.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792859#Comment_3792859
Oh come onnnnn, OG Dead Hard wasn't thaaaaat bad lol.
It absolutely was and may it never come back. You shouldn't have a perk that makes Killers scared to do something as basic as lunge or doing the player's objective, namely in this case chasing. What if there was a perk that made Survivors too nervous to even touch a generator because it would injure them or something? We had that. It was called Eruption and it caused Incapacitated. It punished doing Basic Survivor Gameplay and punished doing their objective. It felt bad. It was bad.
OG Dead Hard was the same issue. It punished doing basic Killer gameplay and punished doing their objective. It felt bad. It was bad.
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To comment briefly on your statement @Azulra, you don't see Ghosties and Pigs use Corrupt because it a) betrays where they are, b) can be a liability to their stealth because it promotes people running right into them, a disaster for Ghostface in particular. I'm of the opinion it's overrated for all but a few Killers and on top of that it's just not a very good perk for Stealth Killers. I would rather run Lethal Pursuer to set up the first hit instead.
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@PuddleOfBludd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792857#Comment_3792857
I never said they need it basekit. I was pointing out the killers get a lot of information early as basekit. Survivors need to use a perk. Not anywhere was I suggesting that it should be made basekit.
The problem is, everyone I have ever seen who supports WoO in its current state almost always also wants it basekit. Or some form of extra Survivor info basekit. The problem is, Survs are as he Devs said before never intended to have that much information basekit, it's designed to all be tradeoffs for running a perk in one of your four slots, or running an item such as a map or key. The rest is intended to be made up by teamwork and your own skill. So in other words, Survivor is supposed to be kinda hard, and all the decisions in the game thus far have basically made it that way. Survivors are simply not intended to have as much as Killers have, and not intended to have anything tilted in their favor except for numbers and perk/item synergy. That's why SWF is seen as stronger, especially with comms and especially if the players are good.
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@ChaosWam said:
It's probably the best survivor skin I've seen, if only it had voice lines in-game.
It also makes playing Dracula abysmal, because I'm always fighting the urge to give them hatch."Son pls,"
[As Alucard is teabagging Drac in the exit gate]
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@Reinami said:
His chains need to be buffed, Many times hitting the chain you barely gain any distance, if any at all over any decent distance, and if they dodge the chain, forget it, they are completely gone.
Looking at the math for it, when you chain a survivor, each chain takes 1 second to break, and the survivor moves at:
- 1.13 m/s with 3 chains
- 1.695 m/s with 2 chains
- 2.26 m/s with 1 chain.
So in total, during those 3 seconds, you reduce the distance a survivor can move from 12 meters to 5.09 meters. But, the time it takes to switch to the gateway camera is 0.5 seconds, then there is the slight travel time, but lets say you land the gateway literally on top of the survivor and its effectively 0. Then you have 0.25 seconds for the camera to switch back.
That amounts to 0.75 seconds where you are not moving AT ALL. So you give up 3.45 meters of distance doing that. Meaning that now you actually are only slowing a survivor distance down to 8.54 meters. where you are moving at full speed.
In summation,
- holding w and not using your chain, means that you gain 2.25 meters of distance on a survivor during the time you would be using your power.
- Using your chain and landing it PERFECTLY, you gain 5.26 meters of distance on the survivor.
And if you miss, or the survivor dodges, they gain massive distance. That makes the power not worth using most of the time.
The other problem with him on the survivor side is the RNG around the box can be miserable in regards to spawning, and you never know if your teammates are actually going for the box or not.
To combat this, these would be my suggested changes:
- Increase the time it takes for a survivor to break a single chain to 1.25 seconds from 1 second
- This turns it from gaining 5.26 meters of distance on perfectly landed chains, to instead gaining about 7.5 meters of distance. Making it a bit stronger
- Impaling wire becomes basekit. Every single cenobite is running this addon, it needs to just be basekit.
- Make it so the cenobite no longer breaks chains himself when running into them, it doesn't make sense to chain someone, and then have to walk around the chain to not break it, given the little distance gained when landing a PERFECT chain over just holding w. Having to walk around the chain makes you lose any distance you might have gained and is silly.
- Rework the original pin addon to do something else so it can't be used to hard tunnel
- Rework the box spawn logic so that it is more randomized and can't be figured out by the killer or the survivors based on where everyone is.
- Also fix it for maps like lery's where it literally has like 2 spawn points.
- Rework the box to work like:
- If a chain hunt is happening and you are holding the box, the person holding the box does not get chains spawning.
- It sucks for new players because they probably don't understand the timing for solving the box at that point and leads to just infinite chain hunts
- If a chain hunt is NOT happening, the box spawns chains on the survivor holding the box and disappear if they start solving the box, so that they are encouraged to actually solve the box quickly rather than hold onto it and hold it hostage.
- If a chain hunt is happening and you are holding the box, the person holding the box does not get chains spawning.
- Rework the Iridescent Lament Configuration to have a downside and be stronger so it isn't just straight up an upgrade. After making impaling wire basekit, this would become the new "always run this" addon.
- 10 seconds before a chain hunt starts, the survivors all see the aura of all other survivors for that duration
- This lets solo queue survivors see if their teammates are running for the box or not and they can figure out who needs to go for it.
You nailed it, pun not intended. OK maybe a little intended.
I think Pinhead is mostly fine but yes, his chains are very weak. He should be more of a fun chase Killer, not just a slowdown Killer. I also think the chains are unnecessarily hard to use sometimes and finicky. They are fine when launched, it's more that the setup, turning, and launching feels a bit clunky and slow. He should be snappier. If anyone could use an autoaim feature that homes in on Survs, it's Pinhead. They should also have a stronger hinder so he can actually use them to catch up, and I feel like there's no reason he should be able to break his own extradimensional chains by walking through them when his vault animation isn't even a vault. I don't see the point in punishing the Killer for using his power like this.
You got it on the Box too. I do think having the Box on you as Survivor should be way way way more of a deficit, because it's way too easy to take the Box hostage and mess with Pinhead this way. You should never be able to continuously lock the Killer out of any part of their power, and it's far easier for Survivors to do this to deny Chain Hunt indefinitely than anything else. It's also obnoxiously hard to find when you're trying to look for it making it a massive liability to an M1 Killer with weak M2 to hunt down, and making it really frustrating to find for Survivors especially SoloQ if he's running Iri Box. Make the Box easier for Pinhead to find and solve when he's close by, maybe give it a slight aura reveal within 8 meters of it? And maybe make chain hunt harder to play around by hiding the Box's aura before a certain threshold, or make it harder to stop by making people carrying the Box hindered or exhausted basekit, or reveal their auras briefly to Pinhead for a second. Something so that holding the Box is actually detrimental, though necessary.
This is a Killer based around pain and being painful to deal with. But also pleasure. Make it a pleasure to have fun trying to dodge his chains by rewarding Survs who manage to "toro" it around loops, but also a pleasure to the player to successfully hit with them correctly. Then make the Box more painful to Survivors who try to use it for their benefit, but less painful for Pinhead to find.
And I agree: Impaling Wire basekit, and maybe an addon pass. Who even USES the maggot and cricket addons? -
Niche perks are what we get when perks like MFT result in horrendous metas and the worst backlash BHVR has seen since old 3gen and old DS-DH meta. BHVR is probably not willing to do strong effects anymore because there's too many ways such effects can combo to make the game obnoxious for the other side.
We can all look forward to even more mediocrity in future years, and we have only ourselves to blame for always without fail only ever comboing the strongest perks with the strongest perks. The era of strong fun perks is over, y'all.
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No thanks, the sweat levels go through the roof during these and I'd rather just do events, modifiers, modes, and play normally. BHVR needs to STOP doing these, and just make BP gain the same for both Killer and Survivor both sides.
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The maps were always bad, they were just bad for Killers before, especially anyone who isn't M2 and can't hit over them.
Most Killers are not M2 that can hit over Pallets and Vaults.
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@reca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792737#Comment_3792737
sorry you had to feel that way for so long. idk where in my post you got all that from, but it seems like pent up anger.
I know how to loop very well, but sometimes looping gets you nowhere today.It's nothing pulled from your post, reca. It's just the unfortunate truth about all too many Survivor players, especially older ones who remember the more broken metas. I see people here asking for stuff like old old DH and old MFT back. Both were unfair and should never come back.
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@PuddleOfBludd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792745#Comment_3792745
Yes, but that bass kit information on where the generators are gives the killer plenty of information as to where the survivors are going to be going. And they don’t need to equip a perk to have that information. WoO requires a perks slot. So, killers base kit starting the match knowing exactly where to go on the map to find survivors is fine, but survivors having to use a perk that tells them where to go when they are being chased is not fine?
Why do you believe Survivors need that much information on where to loop basekit?
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792765#Comment_3792765
Can I ask your typical loadout for survivor right now? I am so very curious lol.
Depends on the Survivor. I run different builds on everyone. For example my Alucard runs Eyes of Belmont, Potential Energy, Lithe, and Still Sight for thematic reasons. However my Nea is more of a stealth altruist and runs Deliverance, OTR, Distortion, and Iron Will - which were not as meta when I created the build but are more meta now. My Cheryl is for looping but my Nic runs two of his perks, Bardic, and Diversion because he's just for memes. My Laurie runs a full on healing build with OTR for protection from tunnels, but my Sable runs boons, Potential, and either Wicked or Strength in Shadows for protection. My Elodie runs chest perks, my Ash runs a protection hit build. I occasionally swap whatever I need in for a challenge but otherwise, it just depends what I wanna do that session. Usually, I don't win, nor do I care about it - winning is a side effect of having good teammates I can work with and my own skill as Survivor, not of my perks.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
I have been getting this either as random crashes, failure to load into the game from the title screen, and random server kicks because "Easy Anticheat cannot validate your account (Error 3)". I have been kicked for loading in as Nemesis, having multiple Alucards in the lobby, simply loading in as and PLAYING Alucard and picking up certain items like Bloodsense maps, and while hovering over perks to pick them before loading in as Killer. I got kicked once too for absolutely no discernable reason just because I was hovering in the menu looking for a round as Ghostface and I shifted to Myers to do my bloodweb. I have never hacked, cheated, or done anything untoward in this game whatsoever, the worst I do is use some cosmetic perk icon packs. I play legitimate and fair and this error has made my heart drop thinking I somehow got an account ban when I have done nothing wrong. Please fix this, it's
Adding to this - I am able to play, but constantly seem to need to revalidate my EAC files every other day. It's not as severe for me as it is for other players. The problem is this is, essentially, random though.
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I have been getting this either as random crashes, failure to load into the game from the title screen, and random server kicks because "Easy Anticheat cannot validate your account (Error 3)". I have been kicked for loading in as Nemesis, having multiple Alucards in the lobby, simply loading in as and PLAYING Alucard and picking up certain items like Bloodsense maps, and while hovering over perks to pick them before loading in as Killer. I got kicked once too for absolutely no discernable reason just because I was hovering in the menu looking for a round as Ghostface and I shifted to Myers to do my bloodweb. I have never hacked, cheated, or done anything untoward in this game whatsoever, the worst I do is use some cosmetic perk icon packs. I play legitimate and fair and this error has made my heart drop thinking I somehow got an account ban when I have done nothing wrong. Please fix this, it's a problem.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792741#Comment_3792741
Well, I am not attacking ofc, but if the game was easy with those perks, build something else. If using those perks diluted the game experience for you, stop using them.
If you're killer side with this, sorry for the hell with FTP+BU. lol
It was both. I didn't use those perks at the time. I don't believe in using broken overly strong perks on either side. Didn't use UW when it was broken strong, either.
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@hygcat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3791687#Comment_3791687
I’m using the Unforeseen perk, and it’s really fun. I catch my victims off guard while they think I’m somewhere else. Yes, I never want to play with tryhard meta perks.
Unforeseen never, and I mean NEVER leaves my Myers build. I should try it on other Stealth Killers.
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Hey there!
IMHO the best Killers to start out on learning basics are Wraith and Legion. Trapper is also an OK choice if you want to learn setup Killers, and I'd say Trickster is the most forgiving for learning Ranged Killers. But Wraith and Legion both have simpler powers that help greatly with understanding how to do basic tiles, mindgaming, and bread and butter Killer tactics you'll need on everyone going forward.
The second best Killers to start out on are anyone who has a power or style that appeals to you. I like stealth, so I started on Wraith before going to Ghostface, Myers, Sadako, Dredge, and other stealthy Killers. I found my one true Main early in Ghostie, but as you get better you will eventually find others you enjoy, too. So once you get the basics and find a Killer that makes you love playing Killer, try others!
Give yourself permission to fail. A lot. Because you will. Killer takes time to learn, it's a whole other beast and it's difficult and stressful. You have to learn maps differently and learn tiles differently. You need different skills as Killer than as Survivor. And you can some times get a lot of abuse as Killer, so try to grow a thick skin or at least keep the endgame chat closed. Don't sweat too hard or try to reach too high too soon; I know winstreaks are tempting but throwing on too many strong perks instead of relying on your Killer power and learning that will only hurt you in the longrun. Learn on and rely on your power first of all.
About perks, it's always a good rule of thumb to build with one gen control, one thing for information, something to help the Killer's weakest attributes, and something to emphasize Killer strengths. Addons help with this. For example, I know Ghostface needs time to chase, so I run perks like Grim Embrace and Thrilling Tremors that hold down multiple gens, and I run addons that help him get Shroud back faster and allow for mindgames in crouch, giving him a better chase power as well as emphasizing his already very strong stealth. Then I run an info perk, in this case Friends til the End which emphasizes his exposed and also grants some information - and it pairs with my oddball pick Rancor because I love getting surprise Moris on people at the end, and it helps if I get a team that knows how to play around my gen hold. If I am really looking to win, I run two gen hold, if not I run just Grim or Thrilling and use that slot for something else like more info, a stealth perk, or a chase perk to help his weaker chase.
In time you'll learn to build around your Killer's strengths, weaknesses, and what they are good at. But you need to start by understanding their power really well first. Always learn your power basekit first. I would suggest training on bots or friends in Customs, never go in dry unless it's a modifier/mode/event or you are very confident at Killer. For example I have 1300 hours and only just now feel confident trying new Killers in real matches if they are M1, like Pig. Anyone else such as say, Dracula I would rather learn in Customs to get a feel first. Making friends with people on Discord, in game you meet through trials, or on this website or places like Steam and Reddit can help you out a lot, both as Survivor and Killer, as you learn to improve at both.
And finally, don't give up! It's okay to not 4k every round. It's okay to do poorly at first. It's okay to lose a lot. You're not bad, you're *learning*… and this game is an ongoing learning process especially if you like multiple Killers or playstyles like I do. In time you become confident and a lot of the nervousness goes away. But if you're really struggling or upset? Take a break. There is no shame in it. You are not bad at Killer for it, no matter what anyone tells you.
Hope this helps you out some. Others here have very good suggestions too. Good luck and see you in the Fog, friend. :)
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@Tsunderechan said:
I would also add in a constraint for Windows of Opportunity to highlight all pallets in their initial state (i.e. if it gets dropped or smashed, it will still reveal the aura as if the pallet is still undropped) the biggest problem with windows is that it shields survivors from making any mistakes of running into a dead pallet so removing that while allowing new players to get familiar with the pallet drop locations would be a massive improvement to the health of the game.
I am not sure that would work.
I think WoO should only work on Windows and another perk should be made that only works on Pallets. After all it's called Windows of Opportunity, not Pallets of Opportunity, and seeing every single possible vault spot is just a touch too strong. Plus it promotes a bad, unfun, "run to yellow" playstyle that doesn't do anything but act as a crutch for weak Loopers, so they never actually learn the game, so they become totally crippled when they ever have to take WoO off.
WoO is just a poorly designed perk that does too much for free. Not even the Killer gets this much info on map resources for free, they're limited to basekit auras on hooks and gens, both resources that are in smaller amount and can be taken out more easily and quickly than a pallet. Vaults can't be taken out at all unless you use certain perks.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792663#Comment_3792663
Just some of us. I've shaken my head more at survivor post than killer. Not us vs them'ing, just… the stats I've got lol
Funny enough I have the same results. My escapes and deaths have not noticeably increased or decreased, I certainly don't think the game is harder as Surv now. In fact, last we had a super strong Surv meta was with MFT, then FTP+BU, and in both cases If elt like Survivor was unfairly cheap and easy. Way, way, way too easy. Where's the fun, the challenge, the risk in too many get out of jail free cards? Where? Where?
Where is the fun in easy rounds as Survivor?
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@Crowman said:
I'm starting to think survivor mains have a victim complex
A lot of them do, and the funny thing is they'll sit here and accuse Killer Mains of a) wanting to win every single match and tryharding to do it, b) having a victim complex whenever anything of theirs gets nerfed.
No, no. That's you, friends. You are the ones DESPERATE to 4 man out every game and having a victim complex when your overpowered crap gets deservedly and fairly nerfed. You're projecting.
It's time to stop projecting on Killers when you were the power role for 7. Long. Years, and nearly every single awful meta the game has ever had except one has been a SURVIVOR SIDED META with the exception of 3 Gen Meta. It's time to actually learn loops, learn how to use teamwork, and learn how to use your perks effectively just like Killers have had to for years. It's time for the training wheels and second chances and kid gloves to come off. It's time for you to stop boosting yourselves with perks the same way Killers had to stop doing it when 3 Gen Meta died. It's time to let you and your SWF have permission to lose and let MMR put you at a level you all belong in instead of being so carried, only the toppest tier of A and S tiers can touch you. It's time. It's time.
It's time to learn how to actually play the game instead of relying on your failsafes to save your butts. The exact same way Killers have had to do for 7. Long. Painful. Tedious. Years.
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Good news, friend! The anniversary outfits come back every year during Twisted Masquerade.
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Speaking as someone who mains a Killer a lot of people say is "too weak to be viable" - Ghostface - and as someone who prefers "weaker" M1 Killers with stealth?
You're tripping. There's comp Ghostface players. There are comp Sadako players. There's even comp Legion Players. Pretty much every Killer can win against a top tier team if they have the requisite gamesense, skill, and ability with that Killer. It just takes time and knowing what you are good at. I'm certainly not a comp Ghostie but I do well enough even against decent teams, he isn't as weak as people say when you're decent with him.
And in pubs? Oh I can destroy pubs, because I am very good with this Killer. I know what I am doing. I mained him exclusively for years. And in general that's also true, of every single Killer - not a single Killer is too weak, too map-dependent, or too outdated to be viable if you know what you are doing with them. Every single Killer in the game can 4k, consistently, though it's harder with some than others.
In pubs, which most people play, everything is viable and anything works. In pubs, there's no such thing as a "trash tier Killer". Only Killers you are good at and Killers you struggle with.
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I can literally still smell the sweat and the noobs and lobby dodge if I want, but I'm getting dodged less and I feel a lot less fear about who I might be facing. My randoms have gotten way way way worse though.
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@BubMickey07 said:
Anyone else notice that alot of killer powers just straight up try (and usually do) ignore pallets? Let me give a list.
- Nurse
- Huntress
- Legion
- Deathslinger
- Pyramid head
- Trickster
- Nemesis
- The artist
- Wesker
- The singularity
- The xenomorprh
- Chucky
- The unknown
- Vecna
- Dracula
Mind you there's 37 killers..
That means that only 22 killers are actually affected by pallets...
Would that not indicate that MOST Killers are in fact affected by pallets?
I also wanna point out that if the Killer can hide their Terror Radius or crouch, or is small like Victor or Chucky, they have a chase power. If the pallet is at a space with tall enough walls and they know even basic mindgames, they can turn the pallet into a 50/50 more often than you'd think…
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There are many Killers that punish being at loops, and because they were way more common for a time, that's how people got used to playing.
Then they get a Ghostface or Myers who know what they are doing, a Trapper with 5000 hours on the character, or a single Wraith who is effective with their cloak and they fall apart because W-keying away from loops into dead zones helps ALL those Killers get some sort of benefit.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792690#Comment_3792690
This will be my last post on the subject because I want to avoid thread closure.
I never denied being biased. I did the opposite. Claiming that you cannot argue points because of bias is ignorant at best.
Everyone has bias about topics they're familiar with.
That's all very true. The problem is yours is substantial enough to be uninformed or very misinformed about the subjects you're making claims about. In such a case you really should not be making claims about what the game needs, because that's like saying "I'm an expert on infectious disease, I read a few books and articles on the internet one time and I don't think this whole Influenza thing was ever that deadly or big a deal because treatment exists for it."
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792672#Comment_3792672
That’s a good point; however, they aren’t decorative. They exist to be used.. if only to get a stun on them, although this factors into their weakness because you’re unlikely to make distance to anywhere better. Filler tiles are meant to provide something between stronger tiles. But filler tiles in isolation aren’t structures that provide much if any value. Part of skill expression is to avoid being zoned but when we take a map like, say, Haddonfield that has been thoroughly nerfed there really aren’t strong tiles connecting to much else (including fillers). A lot of a survivor’s evasion happens in negative space. That is a byproduct of map design, not skill expression.
This is all true, except for one thing: Filler tiles very, very, very rarely happen in isolation, and Haddonfield was an exceptional case in that it was for the majority of its life continuously Survivor-sided until now. I agree Haddonfield should have actual tiles there, but I can't be crazy in saying the map DOES still have decent tiles in the form of the houses, right? Or that maybe you're intended to play different on this map from the typical design that rewards the same seven or so perks everyone runs?
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792668#Comment_3792668
I am very in tune with reality. If you're going to scrutinize my post history make sure you do it right, I've never said the game is hard or unfun for survivors currently. But there are things I'd like to be better for the side I mainly play.
I do play killer regularly but at a rudimentary level, unlike the lot of you I don't claim to be an 'unbiased both sides' player because it's not true and I recognize any perspective I have on killer holds less weight than someone who mains the role at a high level because I don't play it seriously.
"But at a rudimentary level".
So you admittedly don't have much experience as Killer and don't play it seriously, but do have it as Survivor and do play Survivor seriously. Friend, that is still bias. You're still biased. You cannot make solid claims about this game with that much bias. And you're trying to spin this as something positive because…?
If you did play Killer more seriously, especially before a lot of these Survivor nerfs, you would know there is an entire 6-7 year history only just now dying out of Survivor repeatedly being given more help than Killer, often to the point of making some Killers unplayable. You'd know most of the really unfun metas have been Survivor-sided metas, with the exception of the 3-gen Meta that was also obnoxious and needed to go. You'd know why certain perks were nerfed in endgame, some were weakened, and others were adjusted. You'd know why maps were made smaller and we can't have strong nice new perks anymore for either side - because they always get abused and become meta, and the Devs are trying to make other picks both sides have viable value for most casual players like you and I.
I am not a Killer main, either. I'm a hybrid Main, and I'm casual to boot. I am not out here trying to four man out or 4k every single game. My mains are Ghostface with Rancor and Nea with an altruistic-stealth support build. My secondaries all run little to no meta, I have never run 4 gen hold in my life nor do I even run strong perks like Lithe on Survivor except on like two characters, I'm an Alucard secondary and he's the largest Survivor in the game while also being a Pinhead secondary who runs ZERO stron genhold preferring hex builds. I run 9 Killers, and 8 Survivors, all with differing builds for differing reasons, none of which I'd consider overly sweaty at all.
MOST people play both sides with similar or close frequency and MOST players know exactly what is the issue on both sides of the game. You cannot discuss what is affecting Survivor without discussing what is affecting Killer too because it's intertwined. But I never see you talk about the issues Killer can and does face, or has faced in the past. Only ever Survivor. What am I left to assume when you only seem to moan about how bad it is on one side while never seeming to realize where the other got the help and needed it? -
@Valimure said:
I just hope whatever they do to him, they change his insta-mori and tweak the related achievement. Playing against him is already incredibly un-interactive as is without needing to worry about being instantly removed from the game because your teammates let him stalk for free.
As someone who sometimes Myers, I don't hardly even bother with the tombstone addons unless I am angry or have a Mori challenge. That's all they're for. And even then I prefer using Memento Moris.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792423#Comment_3792423
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792512#Comment_3792512
How should survivors loop the tiles on Haddonfield? You know the ones near the hedges that don’t connect to anything at all. How about the tiles on Greenwich that are a pallet and a pole or a pallet and a rock? And what’s the skill expression for killers on these loops?
You don't loop those.
You loop stronger structures. Getting caught by the weak tiles is being caught out of position. Being caught out of position is a mistake. Making mistakes is punishable. Punishment comes in the form of being hit or being downed or hooked. If you're really desperate and stuck at those tiles, you simply greed the tile three times.
Weak map = planning your routes better, as either Killer or Survivor. No loop is so weak it's unusable, and no Killer is so map dependent they're unusable.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792593#Comment_3792593
It's the same type of people who call these pallets 50-50s when they're more like 80-20s in the killer's favor.
Filler tiles are 80-20 in the favor of a Killer who can't hit over or through them? Since when?
Every tile in the game is a filler? Since when?
Your ridiculous Survivor side bias really needs the reality check of playing Killer once in a while, all you seem to do is complain how hard the game is for Survivors without seeing how the game has also gotten less skill expressive for Killers.
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@Sepex said:
Lowered head. His majesty has no faith in his peasant teammates.
It's because Meg blew up the gen again,
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790936#Comment_3790936
The problem is there isn't 1 comp group, there are dozens of groups who all think they are equally important. That means if anyone has a critique of comp, they and defenders might not be talking about the same comp scene. Someone who doesn't hold any value in DBD comp, wouldn't know the top 3 from the rest, because the sweat and bad rule similarities make them all equally invalid in 'disliker's' eyes. It would be on defenders to specifically say: 'X is the best comp scene, and these are the rules they use', so that everyone is on the same page.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3791248#Comment_3791248
Yeah this is partially correct. The thing is, SWF doesn't even add that much to success rates. It adds a multiplicative ~20%.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DRAF9PSSI03H/dbdkillrateslatest.png
4-man (at top MMR) only raises you to ~48%, and can't even bypass 50% winrates. Plus, if one person isn't sweating, then you negate the advantage that comms provides to SWFs. Invocation of Spiders? No Mither? Solidarity+Autodidact? Meme builds, you lose regardless. Most people play for fun, and I fall into the Solidarity+Autodidact category. My most common 2nd (and the only person I frequently duo with) loves Invocation of Spiders. We have below average escape rates (together) because we aren't sweating. My most common 3rd is a complete troll and gives us a negative winrate probably down to 32% or lower from him alone. My (current) most common 4th has sub-100 hrs. You can't have someone still hiding in lockers positively contribute to a match when it doesn't include their MMR in matchmaking. (My previous most common 4th hard quit the game because Survivor experience was so horrible.)
The only time 'you should always win' is if your entire side giga-sweats. This is much easier as Killer, because you are your entire team. As Survivor, you need 4 people calling clocks, running sweat perks, and not getting emotionally turbulent. I personally play to 'mostly' win as Killer, so my current winrate (3k+) is 74% before gens pop, probably ~80% if you include after that. I don't need to tunnel, bring more than 1 or 2 gen slowdown (depending on Killer), excessively slug (slug long enough for UB or someone to recover to 95% without), or excessively proxy camp, or consistently pick from the top half of Killers. I might do some of that if the Survs excessively GenB4Fren, and I need to fight fire with fire, but otherwise I don't go in planning to do that.
The main difference for sweating with Killer and Survivor, is sweating means you only have fun if you win. Since the game is already tilted Killer sided (60-40 intended kill rates), that mostly confirms the expectation. For Survivor, everyone has to swim upstream at the same time, and want to swim upstream. If you lose as Survivor (which statistically is to be expected), then sweating isn't going to be worth it. You have to make the game fun when you lose, and sweating makes that impossible due to the extreme playstyle difference it entails.
The Hens videos showed that if you have enough skill and play certain ways, you can win 50% more (multiplicatively) than balanced for as both sides: 90% from 60% as Killer without camping/slugging/tunneling with powerless trapper, and 60% from 40% as Survivor when you take chase (and the Killer doesn't drop chase) and you actively babysit your teammates. (Ignoring the methodological problems of the Survivor video of ignoring Survivor DCs/quits and including Killer DCs/quits.) The problem is people don't want to have to babysit their team. If I liked babysitting, I'd watch my niece and nephew a lot more, but that is sooooooooo draining. I don't want the game I play for fun to drain me like that, instead it should energize me. When you have to drain yourself to have fun, it runs you net-negative.
Really well put stuff and IMHO why sweating either side is never worth it - it's much too easy to sweat and win as Killer, and thus no fun especially when you become boosted from it - and much too hard to sweat and win as Survivor.
I have said before and will say it again everywhere in this community: If you always 100% on either side play to win and sweat as hard as possible no matter what? You will not have fun. You will suffer. Constant sweating leads to tears.
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
My escape rate jumped to 100% as soon as I bought the skin. Now my new main surv as well. Trying to make it a thing that Alucard players are cracked loop gods.
I have now been convinced of the age old vampire superiority trope. All non-vamp survs are inferior beings.
I swear I get more escapes and loop better as Alucard too. And they feel super hard to catch. I had this chad Alucard in one of my Oni games (I'm a baby Oni and still learning to play him well for funsies; I was doing Killer/Perk shuffle for my birthday a few days ago to have fun) and he looped me so so well that I had to let the man have hatch.
I feel like Killers are nicer to Alucards, and I get amazing reactions from Draculas and Trevors too. It seems like Alucard has this aura of hero energy that just… it's just untouchable. Which makes me really regret because I'll eventually need an Alucard for my Ghostface Mori album and like… I can't kill this man. I just can't kill this man. He's too damn majestic, I feel actively bad doing it, it feels wrong.
Dhampyr and Vampires are simply the superior beings and should be respected as such. I can't explain it.
Also thank you @TheArbiter for warning me about that; I noticed that stalk bug in a Myers match I was in as Alucard and it weirded me out he could stare at me without being able to stalk. I'll need to be cautious about Alucard then especially since I main Ghostface and occasionally play as Myers too. Surely that's a bug, right?
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Oh incredible, perhaps we will get a Slenderman themed Killer! I'd be all for it.
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@Shinkiro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3791659#Comment_3791659
This is 100% true, people legitimately dont understand what they are moaning about.
True, I genuinely do not know what sandbagging and "farming off hook" are and at this point I am afraid to ask,
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790889#Comment_3790889
You're right about slugging. It's not that good, and hasn't gotten better over the years. It's just the least weak thing you can do now.
"Mindlessly" hook? How many arbitrary layers of skill do we need to tack on to that simple interaction? Are you parroting that "just because a killer got a down doesn't mean he deserves a hook"? How hard does it need to be?
And you're objectively wrong on that last comment. Call it an echo chamber, but what are we killer mains doing when we get together to talk? Devising strategies on how to not get sucky results, complaining about survivor meta perks and base game mechanics, and reassuring each other "it's not you, it's the game." It's pathetic. We're playing sweatier than we ever have, using the few tools available to us, and we're still aiming for draws at best. Believe me, there was a time (4-8 months ago) where putting on a chase build with Rancor would get me at least a draw, because I played well and the survivors didn't, not because I had "crutch perks." Now I can't even get that a lot of the time. A lot of of these survivors don't even know how to loop, and could be far more efficient on gens, but the bar is low and so they pass. I can't seem to recall ANY game-winning plays the survivors did in my lost matches, yet I did multiple and the result was the same. So you tell me, what are we doing wrong?
I would not bother with this person, daniel. I think they must truly only play Survivor.
Everyone who plays this game should be required to play both sides so we all understand the real issues in the game.
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@PuddleOfBludd said:
The problem lies in the fact that we’ve created a situation where we’ve punished killers for playing strategically in every other aspect and the average killer is compensating for all of the handicaps by tunneling.
The mentality has been that this game should be the survivors doing gens while the killer stands by and watches them. When you read through some of the things on this forum, I truly believe there are people who absolutely believe that is exactly how the game should be. Anything that prevents them from having a cakewalk is too OP and MUST be nerfed. Okay well we’ve gotten there and this is the result.
You don’t want the killer to be able to hold a three gen when survivors don’t pop strategically? Done.
You don’t want slowdowns to hinder your gen progress? Done.
Now you don’t want the killer to chase you? Or better yet you want killers to throw games by not strategically chasing people to eliminate them from the game. Allow all four survivors to remain in the game as long as possible so that they can pop generators. When right now the only actual way to prevent generators from being popped, is to eliminate the number of people working on them.
Also, this is not geared at the OP but rather the community in general. The OP understands both ends. As do I, I find it incredibly frustrating to deal with the increased tunneling, but I know how and why we’ve arrived here. And until we are willing to stop, pretending that we as survivors didn’t create this, then I don’t see a solution in sight.
@Shinkiro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3791757#Comment_3791757
Exactly this. Survivors demand everything gets nerfed because they dont want to play around things or adjust their gameplay. Killer gameplay choices and build variety have been eroded to the point you'll see the same killers often, same perks, same forced tactics and strategies because nothing else is as viable unless you want a harder timer for no reason. Meanwhile the game actively covers for terrible survivor gameplay and rewards them for it. Slowdown and regression perks are still the best perks to take even after nerfs because there's nothing else really worth the perk slots except a few staples and niche picks, that or aura reading (which gets countered by the insane amount of distortion use anyway so unless you go all in you're back to slowdown perks)
@PreorderBonus said:
This is MOSTLY the devs' fault. BHVR should be encouraging build variety, playstyle variety, and killer variety. Instead, they're doing the exact opposite.
You want to use a hit and run playstyle (the healthiest and most fun playstyle a killer can have, for both sides)? It's literally weakened every patch and actively discouraged by the devs. You are punished as a killer for playing this way.
You want to run a more varied but still useful build? Too bad, there are only two good gen regression perks in the game. And not only did they get nerfed (alongside the other four that were useful), but BHVR also keeps ignoring the weaker ones, so you either run those or might as well not run anything at all.
You want to play a killer that isn't Blight, Billy, or Spirit? Tough luck, because if you dare to do so and face a competent team playing to win, you WILL lose. On top of that, you have to run the sweatiest builds possible on weaker killers because they simply don't work otherwise. If you try a fun, meme build, you don't even get to use it because the game is over in 8 minutes.
This is the game the devs have created and continue to foster, and what does the community do? "Huh, these toxic killer mains do nothing but tunnel!" when the actual problem is BHVR and how all they need to do to keep the community playing is grabbing a new collab (even if the gameplay from it sucks, like Dracula being weak as hell and having CHEST PERKS LOL).
Also, I firmly believe that all these "camping and tunneling" whiny posts would be completely resolved if people actually played the other side for once. I guarantee that if you spent some of your DBD time playing and learning killer, you’d better understand the real issues with this game.
All pretty much the truth.
@I_CAME said:
I almost never run into tunneling personally. In my last 200 games I think I have been successfully tunneled once. It was by a nurse who immediately blinked onto me after I was unhooked. Tunneling is the most overblown "issue" in the game and I can't tell if people really do get tunneled all the time or if it's an issue of perception. Granted I am a very experienced survivor main with 4400+ hours so I am more equipped to deal with it than most players. I do think that tunneling as S-tier killers is cringe but that's more of an issue with the killer itself being overpowered than it is an issue of tunneling. You're really shooting yourself in the foot by bringing that much anti tunnel. You'd be much better off bringing just one anti tunnel perk and replacing one of the others with something like we'll make it. My escape rate has sky rocketed since I started using it.
It can't be just hours because I am 1300 hours, I play more Surv than Killer and am usually in a SWF, and tunnelling only ever happens to me in one of a few distinct cases:
- I'm playing someone like Sable or Jane who is really easy to see and the Killer can't find anyone else;
- The Killer feels desperate or we made a mistake that they correctly took advantage of;
- I am the weak link or on Death Hook and thus make for an easy target;
- The Killer is already good at mobility, or;
- I actively went and did something obnoxious or perceived as toxic and the Killer wants me out of the game ASAP as a result.
It is hardly EVER just because "it's that easy to do" or "the Killer is toxic". Hardly ever. But I'm not surprised people are tunnelling more when again, lots of things Killers did have got nerfed for little to no reason other than "We as Survivors find it annoying to face, let us do gens in peace!" Meanwhile some of the strongest Survivor items have not been touched, though strong Survivor perks have. Then when the Killer tries to be nice, which is not at all rewarded by the game in any way, just done to be kind? They get the "GGEZ" teabag treatment. For being kind. No wonder people no longer treat Killer as "the DM of the round" there to help everyone have fun, and they just all are ruthless. To win, you have to be. And the game directly, directly in the form of challenges and the very Grade system, asks them to always, always try to win.
@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3791757#Comment_3791757
This! When I play survivor, sure I get as frustrated at being tunneled at 4 gens as the next person, but being a killer main I can also see what the killer is seeing: every generator that he passed while pursuing me was at least at 70%, so its not 4 gens, its "basically 2 gens left, while I have only one hook to my name".
And at this point there has been no opportunity to eliminate any pallets, so it isn't viable to show mercy to that one guy on deathhook and go after someone else, at this point in the game that would mean throwing. Sure, some players are okay with that, but not everyone is. I handed quite a good amount of games to survivors who actually didn't deserve it and were I could have easily sealed the deal. And more often then not (really, WAY WAY WAY more often then not) I got paid back for that with a "ggeeeeeez hahaha so easy" and t-bagging and BMing and twerking at the exit gates.
And now the +10s close off yet another venue of applying and maintaining pressure and giving survivors YET another one to have their cake and eat it, too, finishing their gens and still save their teammate. Killer might not feel as abyssmal as it did pre 6.1, but not both roles feel at their wits end and having to resort to unfun tactics. This games MMR breed and burned every ounce of playfulness out of the game, and all thats left is a mean, lean, efficient killing/gen-popping machine.
@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3791946#Comment_3791946
Can't agree more. I don't tunnel hard from the start, most of the time I will tunnel if survivors give it to me and I feel like I need to. Otherwise, I stopped play to win and just enjoy chases. But holy, amount of games where I had very solid games on weak killers with 8-9 hooks and 0-1 kills is stupid. All I got for it usually is "gg ez".
One week ago I had match against gigachad Wesker where he had 8 hooks and 0 kills. I just came to him to give him a kill, because he absolutely deserved it, and he just didn't bother about it. You know what I saw when back to exit gates? "Watch me leave" show with teabags.
I have no empathy for most survivors being tunneled, because they simply not even don't respect when killer
play fairthrow the game for no reason as they want, but literally take it as a weakness. Let's have fun, but obviously we won't care about yours.The disrespect from players to other players is currently out of control and needs to be addressed by BHVR asap. It's actually ruining the game on both sides. I get Killers who try to be nice being crapped on for doing so, then turn around and get crapped on for being nice as Killer. I get Survivors who don't like me as Killer and actively try to annoy me, then as Survivor I get Survivors who purposefully grief, sandbag, throw, or don't want to help when we need it. It's awful, and it really does stem from mostly Survivors. Killer toxicity simply does not happen in a vacuum, it comes from somewhere. These are learned behaviors done out of frustrated desperation, probably from Survivors who crapped on these players in the past like they're so gosh darned amazing at the game for bullying the utter crud out of a baby Trapper.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792038#Comment_3792038
It's increased by over 5 times in my games over the last two years and the average escape rate when tunneled for all survivors in solo queue, with at least one of said survivors having at least one anti tunnel perk in every game was less than 10%.
That doesn't sound like an 'overblown' issue but more like a glaring issue that makes pre 6.1 Dead Hard and original Circle of Healing look tame in comparison.
The only 'reason' to tunnel in public matches is because you're dissatisfied with winning over 50% of your games or you've tunneled enough you're now in an MMR bracket that is above your skill level without tunneling. Doing it as revenge for BM isn't the most edifying thing but honestly I still consider it as more legitimate than the other two reasons.
And do you have data for this "increased by over five times" claim? I would love to see it. If you can't provide it I am inclined to think you just hit a lot of rough patches and are seeing these things where they aren't.
I agree the only good reason to tunnel someone out is if you are stuck where you have to tunnel or you're avenging BM. However I will add that it's probably also fine to tunnel if you absolutely need pressure THAT bad midround at 2 gens left or something and have to start a snowball.
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@ShadyC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3791743#Comment_3791743
Let this topic be this topic, thanks.
Their response WAS on topic. You expressed anger at Killer side because it feels hard to counter their tactics. That indicates frustration which means you need a break from the game. Please take a break. Come back during the modifiers, maybe Chaos Shuffle when it's not as sweaty for you.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792035#Comment_3792035
Except this was a response to a 'both sides' player who was making a claim that survivors should enjoy losing and having a giant disadvantage every game.
I personally think survivor is fun to play at the moment solely due to Iron Will being buffed which allows for a lot more skill expression. But I only play in a SWF these days.
I also actually think Survivor is fun to play right now, but I think it's actually nothing to do with Killers being too strong and everything to do with SoloQ players being selfish as usual or just bad which is what ruins it. SWF is much much better. I don't appreciate the misinterpretation of my comment, either. My point was that Survivors should also be able to find fun in games they are losing the way Killers have to. Both sides need to chill out and find the fun in losing sometimes, this game should not be this competitive.
Still a both sides player BTW. No quotation marks needed. :)
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792040#Comment_3792040
In my opinion, leaving the loop is not skill expression, but you do you.
I agree, Hold W is definitely not skillful play and should be gently discouraged, I believe this is what the Devs are trying to do with some map reworks. Holding W could get you in a dead zone on those maps, and that's why it's a liability. If it were like that on many maps, and pallets were not so dense on some maps, this playstyle would fall out of favor pretty fast.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3789434#Comment_3789434
because a lot of killer power are trash. bloodlust is another poorly designed mechanic to fix bad balance in regards chase powers alongside camping and two staging which is more related to gen vs hooks. in many cases, a lot of killer power are worse then bloodlust so it makes sense for a lot of killer player to optimize bloodlust.
There is no such thing as a "trash tier Killer", only Killers that need an update and Killers the player is trash AT. :)