GonnaBlameTheMovies
GonnaBlameTheMovies
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@MissClove said:
remove the finisher mori. Do something about the slugging or continue to lose survivors in this game. I used to play with about 15, now there is only 3 of us.
Respectfully friend that's your one little group, I still have plenty of people to SWF with. I do agree slugging is an issue, but I don't think the Mori is why. I think the fact slugging has become more powerful than hooking is why.
Also, BHVR wants the finisher Mori, they've wanted it for years. Nobody asked them to add it. They just wanted it. And it's very unlikely they're gonna remove it, actually, so the least they can do is fix it so it doesn't create situations where people endgame slug for the Mori. Removing the Cypress and then making Green Mori basekit would be more than enough.
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The issue is Trickster is a ranged Killer that feels super easy to play and makes chase a liability, you HAVE to hide from him.
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What other objective does the Killer have in the endgame when all gens are done and the gates are about to open, OP? What's wrong with letting them try to go for one final kill and guard someone this way, you have already won if most of you are alive and the gates are opening or about to be opened. Let the Killer get one last attempt at killing, that is how they get points.
Why should the Killer be robbed of pressure, points, and a chance at maybe turning the game around last second just because you want a four man out?
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I think the way to fix this is just to remove the ability to double-stun a Killer. You shouldn't be ABLE to stunlock a Killer with a Head On into Flashbang into Flashlight, it doesn't save time and has no gameplay use. There's never any legitimate reason to be able to do that except to annoy the Killer player, it's literally just griefing, and always done to target lower MMR Killers into DCing out of anger or to mess with M1 Killers that don't have much to counter it.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859460#Comment_3859460
Indeed.
Devs, why the heck you even add new killers into the game? Can't you see people still haven't learn how to play against more than half of existing killer roster? Go back and keep nerfing every killer until survivors feel confident enough to play against them and only then do introduce something new!
Asking for EVERY Killer to be nerfed until Survivors find them super easy to handle is certainly… a take, friend. Tell me, do you believe Trapper is too much?
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I think if they keep him like this, at least make him a 115% speed Killer… I'm not a fan of the nerfs but I understand why they needed to happen. He was too strong.
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I'd actually be here for that, I want to trade in addons and items I never use. I never use flashlights or sabo addons on my toolboxes, and I never have a use for all these Chewed Pens in my Ghostface inventory or these chain turn addons in my Pinhead inventory. I wanna get rid of them for more interesting items and addons.
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I'm really, really not into the idea of making hooking less appealing and also adding more frustration perks into the game. Survivors already have multiple tools to stun, blind, etc. the Killer and get benefits from doing so. Do they really need more? No, I think not.
I also am against pre-saboing hooks as a mechanic. That was in the game at one point, it got removed because it felt bad to go against. Hooks also used to STAY sabotaged, forever, broken so you could not use them. It's really unfair to have to make one side pre-play around something that may or may not be in play especially when slugging is so attractive right now.
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I have no issue with Spirit because a lot of her counterplay involves just knowing she can't see much while phasing. I agree 100% she could get some addon pass or something, her power kind of is outmoded in modern DBD and despite her speed she really has almost nothing else. She's also super addon reliant in that the addons she needs to be high A tier are REQUIRED specifically because they are unhealthy. I wouldn't even call her high A tier anymore unless you do use those addons.
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Skurchent is supposed to be getting addressed sometime in 2025, but you're correct that they hardcore nerfed her because too many people whined despite her being just fine. Poor, poor Adrianna, she didn't deserve this…
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@Vuk said:
The idea to stop last mooent item swaps is good, but should be a natural resistence to flashlights and stund, u could only do those 2 times in a row then the killer gets a 30s resistance.
Despite seeing flashlights as a non-issue most of the time, I actually agree with you - chain blinding and chain stunning shouldn't exist in the game. You never need to double-stun a Killer to get more distance, one stun or blind is enough. The fact you can go Head On into Flashbang into Flashlight blind serves no purpose other than to grief and stunlock a Killer in an animation because the players think that's funny, and it has no equivalent for Survivor. It's an accessibility issue for people with sensory concerns, and it's harder for console users to get around too. It's an oversight that needs addressing just like spam-unhooking for Survivors on other Survivors.
Players on either side shouldn't be expected to have to run perks to counteract griefing.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3862200#Comment_3862200
They do, you down a survivor near an unkickable gen it will bypass the "limit", try it.
I'm curious because I haven't noticed this effect, could you provide some footage of it in action? If it does work that way, I would be interested in seeing how to make it do so consistently.
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@MissClove said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3862650#Comment_3862650
You need a lot more survivors than killers in this game. What good is the game if you have no one to kill? The game is killer sided. As i stated in another post. I used to play with about 15 people who were survivors. There is only 3 of us now. And I’m not playing as often anymore.
I don't have any issue finding Survivors, randoms, or filling my lobbies on either side…
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?
I think Slinger's in an OK spot. I guess he could be 115, but I don't think he NEEDS buffs the way say, Trapper or Pig or Ghostface or Legion need it. He's pretty balanced.
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@TWS001 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863014#Comment_3863014
It does feel like that today. Had decent Solo Queue team mates and escaped all 5. They were against a Death Slinger, 2 Trappers, Ghost Face and a Dracula but all the killers were decent players, a couple were tunnelling but we still got 3 or more out.
It felt the same one day in the week. If it wasn't for the other surrounding days that were killer stomps non stop I'd think MMR had been changed. Probably just lucky though and will get every comp wannabe Blight and Billy again next time I play!
I had this today too. Got a mix of Killers last several days. Then today, nothing but Vecna, Nurse, Drac, OBSCENELY SWEATY NURSE, Vecna, Huntress, Huntress, Huntress… nobody fun or interesting, just strong or ranged Killers. Then I got a cool Chatterer Main who was super chill and fun to play against, and we all lost after a hard fought battle. Oh and one Wesker and another four-slowdown Nurse who both lost server connectivity.
I got out against everyone except for the Nurses, Chatterer, one Vecna, and a Huntress.
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@Triplehoo said:
As someone, who was raised with Commodore 64 in the 80's, and 90's internet connection, 5 minutes is a cakewalk. People are way too impatient these days
Oh you too? Damn, I am in the same boat, I remember waiting a solid 15 minutes with DOS commands to get into Windows 3.11 just so I could play this hot new "Myst" game everyone was talking about. We waited, and liked it! Kids these days…
But I will admit, the wait times are longer than I am expecting as Surv. I'm getting 5 minute waits, usually I get pretty instantaneous queues and my Killer queues are longer.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858355#Comment_3858355
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858504#Comment_3858504
As hilarious as this scene is in my brain... what would be an appropriate offering?
I've been trying to find a lore accurate offering one could add, but finding something small that is actually a good lore accurate fit is quite hard...
Like a cryopod refill capsule would be perfect, but can't find a actual reference to it... containment life support tube maybe?
I can answer that… a spent facehugger carcass.
There ya go.
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Well, the difference is friend, I enjoy playing Myers because he doesn't catch on everything if you miss your attack.
I don't enjoy playing Bubba because collision issues.
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I genuinely, passionately believe we should never, never have vaults positioned under a dropoff, it almost always makes loops way too strong. Eliminate setups like these from the game entirely. Never re-add them.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
Yeah…Toba is an accessibility nightmare. It's also sensory overload.
Thanks for bringing this point up Jim, I too find it sensory overload sometimes. I'm just happy I rarely get it.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3813090#Comment_3813090
I think that the more seasoned players might have reduced their play time if they didn’t already just quit and what we’re left with are new people used to playing fps games and can’t handle a game like this. They’re too used to being able to respawn and having equally balanced opponents.
Asymmetrical games are rather niche and lots of people expect perfect balance thinking if they play good enough they’ll win and that’s not the case with dbd since there is too much RNG and the fact that the solo side is inherently stronger than the “optimal” team side.
It also doesn’t help that Survivor is harder than it looks and that it’s expected that they’re going to lose a lot until they get better. Nor does it help that the game does nothing to properly teach players how to loop and counter Killers. Don’t get me started how bloated the game is with different variations of Killer powers and perks that you have to remember.
This is 100% it and I think most of the current complaints are coming from newer players upset the game isn't balanced the way an FPS would be. That is, they are not use to assyms.
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I find slugging really boring. I try not to do it on purpose, unless there's an actual tactical reason to leave someone down that long. If I do it, I try not to do it for more than a minute or two. If I can't find you after a down because you crawled away, that's not me slugging, that's your problem, I always try to come back for a hook because I want the points more than the kill.
I actually rarely experience this as Survivor, at least not for longer than a minute tops. It's almost always, when I am left down to finish off a 4k, the Killer coming back to Mori or hook me after getting the other person because they're not that far away from me. And that just isn't a problem, a slug, or an issue to me at all. THAT is what I think is exaggerated, and THAT is what I think people are getting unreasonably upset with - just the Killer finishing off the round and cleaning up for a 4k because they have a challenge or want to pip. And what exactly is wrong with that? Nobody owes you an escape just like nobody owes you a kill after all. And the game itself, for better or worse, really really really incentivizes you as Killer to wanna go for that extra pip.
To me, the only time slugging is a problem is if a) they do it for four minutes to stand over your body and gloat, b) they do it from 5 gens to 4k slug everyone so nobody gets a game. If it happens at the end? You got a game, you got points. It's a non issue. The round is over, let it go, you lost. At least that's how I see it - my round is over, I lose, oh well gg go next.
I just… I don't get how ANYONE considers this an issue so much, they want the Mori system removed or feel it's toxic. I genuinely don't.
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@Zebbao said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3862950#Comment_3862950
my brother, you are definitely right, but I think you are neglecting one thing. When you reach a certain skill level with the killer, you don't need to tunnel in many of the games with unprepared people, you can also win with your brain turned off or playing only M1. In fact, every time a killer comes out and I try it, the first 10 games with that killer I win all the games not tunneling and trying to use his power as much as possible. to not win you would literally have to lose on purpose. This is obviously a speech that is valid for slightly more experienced killers, but I think and believe that even for the less good killers, this speech is valid and that they too would be able to win most of the games even without tunneling, then maybe they tunnel because now they feel safe only with that as you said.
I agree with this, my point is that this cycle is how stressed out "I gotta win" NEW Killer Mains form. Not that people already confident are in this cycle, they have escaped it because they know not to care as hard.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3862955#Comment_3862955
As I said, medkits are balanced, but the tiers are functionally all the same.
The goal isn't to buff medkits for the sake of making them stronger, it's to make the tiers more different to one another so they're not just bloodweb clutter with varying prices.
I see, that makes way more sense. I'd be open for making some Medkits do something else, like maybe one can also fix Broken once or something.
@Devil_hit11 I agree, I just wish they wouldn't have nerfed Mangled and Hemorrhage so hard. It only hurt Killers like my main and did nothing to Killers like Dracula or Nurse at all. I genuinely don't think either status needed a hard nerf.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3862950#Comment_3862950
If you hit the mmr soft cap in step 3, how exactly do your matches continue getting harder?
You hit the first "soft cap" when you've won enough to get out of the kiddie pool. You hit the second when you keep winning so hard, the average Survivor doesn't cut it anymore.
My ultimate point is, this is a hell Killer players build for themselves by stacking too much meta from the start and NEVER taking it off while also slug-tunnel-camping on the strongest of the strongest Killers. These are the people who eventually end up going "I can only play Nurse, Blight, Spirit, and Wesker with full four slowdown or I can't win".
You are by necessity as Killer supposed to lose 40% of your games. You are supposed to miss a little under half of all Survivors.
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Honestly, I think what we need is to maybe remove self-unhooking. Why don't we make it so you need a perk to do that? Hooks are pressure, Killers need incentive to hook, Survivors need more to do than gens and this would add more value to stuff like Desperate Measures. It seems like this would fix the problem right?
Would anyone object to that?
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@ezikagirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861944#Comment_3861944
pop can often not be good for lower tier killers have to walk all the way to the gen when blight or billy can just press one button and they are already in it. the thing is. the 20% can benefit them anyway. but for lower tiers. 20% is literally #########. the gen could literally pop before you reach it. they basically made it so. only killers with map mobility will use it. that's terrible.
This. Speaking as a Ghostie Main I would never run Pop unless I paired it with something like NTH or Fire Up, there is no value there if you don't have mobility. I'd much rather not bother, and just run something like Grim+Thrilling for longer hold, Pain Res for instapop, or Surge so I don't need to kick it. All of those pair way better. Even Ruin with the right guarding Perk is a much much better choice than Pop for a lower mobility Killer who can't afford to stop and kick gens as much.
I'd rather see all generator perks both sides addressed and normalized so that hyperspeed gens AND turboslugpace gens can't happen. We don't want 3Gen Meta again, but it is a little absurd you can stack gen perks on top of already strong toolbox variants with a lot of charges AND recharge those toolboxes on top of it. If anything it points to toolbox speeds being the issue, not gens and not perks. It should be normalized.
I saw someone here at one point suggest no higher than 25% gen repair speed or regression chunk. I think that's totally valid. I'd even be fine with a Killer Perk that on kick takes 10% off the gen every time and then nerfs repair speed or something for that gen too, anything to make it viable to kick gens without having to resort to a strong regression tool every time. Perks like Huntress Lullaby and Thrilling Tremors should be viable; due to various factors they aren't and buffing them isn't the answer. Nerfing something Survivors have so you can't have crazy gen speeds on top of doubling on gens, reducing charges, and little buffs to speed here and there with perks probably is. We should cap both regression AND progression or this war of attrition over gens won't end.
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I'm certainly not against it if this really is a common issue, but I just am surprised OLED still exists. That's all. I thought most stuff was LCD or LED now.
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@CursedPerson said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3862952#Comment_3862952
I think you missed the sarcasm, theyre talking about how they dont get to play because of all of the excessive slugging
It really didn't look like sarcasm, but thank you because I genuinely can't tell, tone's hard on the internet for me.
If they're facing a lot of slugging, why not bring perks to counter it like Unbreakable or items like a Medkit with a Syringe? That's usually what I do when slugging gets really high in my games, though admittedly I don't see much "until bleedout" or super long slugging. Frankly when I AM slugged it's usually at 2 people left for a Mori, which is understandable to me since it's just the Killer looking for their 4k and a cool animation while they do it (plus Moris give extra BP now). I genuinely have no issue with it; Slugging to me is only an issue when you do it at five gens from the word go or you do it JUST to bleed people out for four minutes. Otherwise, not a problem.
I fully respect you might have different feelings though, which is why I am glad BHVR is asking about it on the Survey. We need to once and for all define what slugging is so we can combat the most toxic and frustrating KINDS of slugging, because frankly it is a problem.
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@Na1ts1rhc said:
#notallkillers I feel like I am always winning; especially after playing oni recently. This big Japanese hunk of demon can do 2 whole loops around most small maps (on a good day). The pressure on this guy is insane and I can't stop winning. Survivors hate this one trick that makes them lose the game EVERY SINGLE TIME!!! (It's not slugging for the 4k it's Kazan Yamaoka)
Exposed is a hell of a drug, isn't it? Now you see why I main Ghostface, Myers, etc… god it just feels SO GOOD to slap someone down in one hit.
NGL I've been finding myself drawn to Oni as well, he's really fun!
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I'm not sure this'd solve the issue friend. I think in general we do need something for slugging overuse, but we also mostly need for crows to NOT go away whenever Survs spam picking up or putting down items. That's a really bad oversight and part of why two people hiding without doing gens is problematic, causing these stalemates.
Last year during Blood Moon I was playing Sadako, and I had two Sables do EXACTLY THIS on Eyrie once they realized they had threegenned themselves on one side of the map and I had broken all pallets they could use. They were down to one gen, and because they wouldn't touch my tapes, kept dropping and picking up items but refusing to engage me to force me away from the cluster, and kept hiding every time I went to look for them, the game dragged. They let their teammate die on hook in the basement just to pettily irritate me for ten extra minutes, and forced the game to a crawl all because they wanted to waste my time and make me feel bad for doing well on a really difficult M1 map. I didn't do anything nasty to trigger this. I was running precisely one meta perk (Pain Res that was ALL) because I wanted to combat sweat. I was playing fair, I did not tunnel slug or camp, I did not spam condemn, I did n o t h i n g wrong to deserve this treatment except happen to play Sadako. And these two petty Sables didn't like that, nor the fact that I was doing well against them and a frankly pretty strong team with a decent Looper Steve in it.
I 4ked by the way by finally getting angry enough to actually start slugging and tunnelling people, and they both had the gall to get upset in the endgame chat over it. My Sisters in the Fog, you brought this on yourselves by wasting my time first. I am really sick of people being able to do this, especially when I typically play more than fair. Nobody deserves to have a game stalled out for half an hour like this, it shouldn't be a thing. Ever.
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This still doesn't really do much to help the Perk overall, I'd rather just see the perk do something else.
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The event's cool, I like it, but it does need more.
You know what I had a lot of fun with both sides? The Twisted Masquerade event this year. I REALLY loved having random changes as the game progressed, it was weird, it was quirky, it was fun.
Know what else I liked both sides? I liked Haunted by Daylight, when people bothered to interact with the Void and use the Void stuff. It was different, it was fun. It changed the gameplay. It gave us more to do.
Know what else I really liked? The Modifiers. Lights Out, Chaos Shuffle, and 2v8 are all more engaging experiences than Bone Chill. They brought new ways to play the game (co-op Killer vs. Frenzy, High Stealth High Horror, and Randomizer). Bone Chill does not.
Bone Chill needs MORE to do or an overhaul that truly makes it different and makes it stand out. Otherwise, it's just DBD with snowball fights and crappy snowmen that mess with your ability to do anything properly. And I feel pretty similarly about Blood Moon actually.
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@CrypticGirl said:
Yeah, whenever I see my teammates with flashlights, the Killer gets a 4k at 4-5 gens.
That'd be because while fun to try and use, Flashlights really do not do much unless you force a blind while the Killer's in an animation lock, such as picking up or breaking a pallet.
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Killers are allowed to have strong antiloop.
Killers are allowed to have haste.
Killers are allowed to have things.
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I think if there is a Killer that has objects on the field in the round, they should replace chests instead. Just… spawn less chests.
Chest creation offerings like Coins should remove one Killer object instead of adding more chests.
My point being, chests shouldn't be a priority over Killer things.
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That could unfairly disadvantage some Killers over others, imagine if every time Wraith Cloaked and Uncloaked, or Trapper set a trap, crows flew away. Just not smart.
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I'm sorry but I am not interested in playing with bots just because my teammate decided they don't want to face a Legion today. The penalty has to stay and if anything, it needs to be harsher.
If the issue is internet, either you have to fix connectivity on your end, or BHVR has to fix their servers. You vanishing because of a bad connection similarly ruins games, even if you don't intend to. I agree it shouldn't be punished, you didn't mean it, but unfortunately, there's no way that I know of to code for telling the difference, so the game doesn't know any better.
The DC penalty has to stay, because most people don't disconnect accidentally.
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@Jeoz said:
some buff and nerf ideas for survivor that would close the gap between solo q and swfs, it have to be take into account none the less that swfs still benefits from every buff, and solo q loses with every nerf, and that no buff should come without a nerf
BUFFS
1-buff survivor info perks, let survivor's aura reading perks to work on stealth killers, bring old spine chill back, and make it so the hooking black bubble doesn't block the aura reading of kindred (info is way better for solo q than swfs, just knowing some approximation of the killer's location, and intentions can do a great difference and swfs don't need some comp level communication to give more info than any single info perk buff idea here would give)
2-buff distortion, 2 token at the start, recharge with gen progress, with a maximum of 4 tokens, and share the concealment with close by survivors (selfish perks by definition help solo players more than swfs, but they should still be more focused on teamwork anyway)
3-anti tunnel perks, right now even with antitunnel perks, to try to win while being tunneled require being way better than the killer or being protected by the other survivors and even if all other 3 survivors escape, that's a lost game, solo q who cannot ask for help, or can have troubling finding the survivors in the need of help, suffer a lot more with an strategy that's even good against swfs
4-buff self healing and self unhooking perks, here i can put the only idea that i think would be good as a buff exclusive to solo q, make it so ONLY SOLO Q players, without a single partner, can heal themselves in circle of healing, circle of healing was the savoir of solo q, no teammates asking for healing in dangerous spots, instead of doing gens, no time wasted trying to find a teammate to get a heal, solo q suffered way more with that nerf than swfs, a lot of swfs didn't even used circle of healing because they didnt want to use the perk slot and can easily find each other for a heal
NERFS
1-nerf pallet and flashlight saves, make in it as that instead of a save, the grab survivor get some wiggle progress instead, saves can completely change the course of a game, a good save, can secure a 3-4 man escape, while a failed save can doom the entire team, and swfs are constantly coordinating saves, choosing were to go down, while solo q just can't do it,being always a bet.
2-make take in protection hits, body blocking the killer, the use of flashlights, and even t-bagging conspicuous actions, anti tunnel perks, and features should no be usable against killers not tunneling
3-nerf prove thyself, the best perk to speedup gens, and for some reason it can be so bad in solo q, it can be so difficult to get a partner for it, and without ways of comunnication, even when finding a partner, solo q survivors with this perks end up 3 genning themselves, but still one of the best survivors perks, and swfs can make it shine so much
4-nerf instaunhooking, make it so unhooking a survivor in the first 5-10 seconds after being hook it gave some kind of punishment for the unhooker, this in swfs is strategy, in solo q is just farmingI'm not going to lie… all of that sounds bad. All those buffs would overpower SWF, every single one. All those nerfs would hurt SoloQ more than SWF, every single one. These are not the right changes. I appreciate your thoughts friend but these would all cause a lot, A LOT more issues than help.
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@VibranToucan said:
Posts like this make me understand why BHVR doesn't usually take advice from the forums.
-Advertising for a 50% killrate means balancing around low mmr soloqueue Survivors. It would make SWFs even more frustating than it already is.
-You want ALL old perks back? Broken Dead Hard, Broken Decisive Strike, being able to stack Exhaustion Perks, Broken Mettle of Man and that all at the same time?
-You complain about being Slugged by a Killer running a meme build, in a post where you explicitly want more casual builds and where you asked for old DS back, even tho killers basically had to slug to deal with it.
Yeah this exactly why BHVR so rarely takes feedback from the community. No coherent argument, just an "other side OP and evil, please make my side OP" with contradictary and absurd demands. And of course it gets over 30 upvotes…
This is the same reason BHVR refuses to take a look at ingame reports if you didn't also create a ticket on their website. People spam it so much with dumb false reports that its too much for them to evaluate. Same on the forums. People just post stupid stuff like this constantly and it burries the actual well thought out suggestions.
This. All of this.
You have GOT to consider the enjoyment of everyone, Kim, and that really does include Killers. This is, end of the day, a horror themed game and in a horror themed game, the Survivors just are not intended to be the power role and that is okay. You don't need to break Killer ankles 24/7/365 to have fun as Survivor in SoloQ or in SWF, you really don't, I promise. I don't anyway, and I know a lot of my friends who Main Survivor don't either.
Thing is, SoloQ by necessity is going to be harder due to lack of communication. The problem isn't strong Killers or not listening, the problem is lack of communication.
And they really truly 100% cannot fix that without unintentionally buffing SWF. Because they tried that before, and that's exactly what happened, so they had to nerf Survivor perks like DH, Adren, etc. to compensate. When one person took them it was fine but when four people took them, it was way too much for some Killers to handle, and they couldn't just buff all those Killers randomly. How would you even buff someone like Trapper, Pig, Ghostface, Myers, Legion to deal with those? There were too many Killers to buff, and fewer perks to nerf… so they chose to nerf the perks.
If Killers have strong things, they get nerfed. Survivor is not exempt from this rule just because 4x as many people play it, nor should it be. Survivors should not be as strong as a Killer individually is, that isn't how the balance of DBD works.
I know you miss being the power role and having super strong perks like old Adrenaline and old old DH. But you just cannot have your cake and eat it too. You can't have strong SoloQ, strong SWF, AND strong Killers without heinously overbuffing everything. You can't have combos on Killer like Weave+Franklin's that create antifun, and you can't have multiple exhaustion perks stack easily like they could in the past. BHVR just isn't willing to risk that, because half the Killer roster would have no fun because they cannot handle all that. They'd be left out in the cold, is that really fair to people who play them?
IDK about you. But I don't want to go back to seeing only Wesker, Spirit, Nurse, Blight every single round because nobody else is viable.
Killers are always playing SoloQ unless 2v8 is on. Survivors do not have to. That's the reason Survivor perks have to remain weaker that Killer perks. For the sake of balance… that's just how it has to be, Kim.
"I don't care, one day the Devs will take my opinion…"
And well, not to argue but… that's the problem here, Kim. You keep necroing this thread to make the same point, but now have flat out said it, your actual words here, that you don't care about anyone else's fun. Not about Killers, not about new players learning the game having to play against or with this sort of overpowered nonsense, not about SWF with weaker players in it, not about the game, not about the community, and not about fun and balance. As long as it benefits you and your preferred way to play, and as long as it screws over the side you don't like so you can laugh at them when they lodge legitimate complaints about the game in the state you're asking for it to be in, you don't care who suffers. That's frankly a really awful way to look at the game.
And no. BHVR is probably never going to bring it back, just like we're never again going to see 3Gen Meta (thank Entity), old MFT, old Ruin, old Thana, or old old old Haddonfield. Never ever ever again. You're shouting into a void, please just learn to use what you have.
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No, I fought too hard on these forums to make this system work for it to be removed. The Mori system is fine and should be kept in the game, and it's also unlikely based on how long BHVR has wanted to add this that it's going away any time soon. This is a slugging issue NOT a Mori system issue.
Rather, the issue with slugging could EASILY be resolved if instead of the Cypress Mori basekit, Green Mori was basekit. That is, you can Mori one Survivor in the round IF they are on death hook only. This should decrease slugging for MOris which is in fact problematic. Yes, it would increase tunnelling, but with how many perks there are to handle tunnelling that is hardly an issue.
So I guess the question is, since BHVR is 100% not removing this because they've wanted to add this forever and finally have, are you more upset when Killers tunnel or when they slug? You have to pick a lesser of two evils then play around it. And frankly, if the issue is slugging more than tunnelling? It looks like according to the Survey questions being asked, they're floating the idea of an antislug system that won't be abusable by SWF sometime soon.
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The perk is not the issue here, it's Blight. I would rather Blight, Nurse, etc. be blinded when they use their power this way, Legion isn't allowed to see scratch marks or auras nor is Spirit or Drac, so why can Blight and Nurse do that?
Lethal itself is kinda a weak perk pick used to help less skilled Killers and also to enhance aura reading. It's not a necessary pick for anyone and not really problematic whatsoever. The issue is the fact Blight and Nurse can use it to insta-merc.
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I think medkits are in a good spot, they can still be strong and quite useful if you know how and when to use them. They don't need buffed at all, just don't touch them.
I'd rather see things like keys or maps given more, or even making flashlights take more skill to use. It feels unrewarding when Flashlight blinds are so easy for me to get, and keys are useless unless you want to go for hatch or run a wallhacks key. Maps are nice but only the Rainbow Map has any real use to it, and skilled players often do not need them.
Toolboxes overall are fine, but I think we need three major tweaks:
- Remove brown toolboxes and pair down the purples and greens. Nobody uses the purple toolboxes for anything but sabo speed, and nobody uses the other green one at all.
- Reduce Commodious Box and event toolbox charges, have the same toolbox charges for everything like with medkits: 16 charges. They are too easily stacked with perks and no other toolbox even comes close to how strong this one can be.
- Take a look at addons for toolboxes, do we really need this many sabo items? And what if all toolboxes were set at 20% speed max, and the addons made it so you could add 5% more speed, so many more charges, OR turn it into a sabo king box? That allows more flexibility as a tradeoff for reduced gen speed plus you can STILL stack with perks so it's not unreasonably slow to repair, and it may allow Killers some more breathing room so they don't feel the need to take so many gen perks.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3862949#Comment_3862949
BHVR can't do anything to the game without one of the sides complaining. Honestly, it probably fatigues them a bit. But anyway!
DBD isn't a birthday party. It's a competitive game. If we want a balanced experience, then yes. There needs to be some equality o stuff both sides. SOME.
Dbd being a competitive game feels so subjective to me. CoD, MWarfare, LoL, Apex, Overwatch, those are competitive games imo. DBD 'can' be, but I personally cannot take a game that serious with all the bugs, unbalanced perks, bugs, thoughtless 'win' condition(s), the slow pace of the development, and the bugs.
Taking a tournament seriously is easier because they have to implement the rules of the tourney, which is usually declining to use a LOT of the game. Perks, etc just are banned due to whatever. (Whatever being the changes. They do make sense. To many OP or just stupid perks/addons/items/etc. You get it :P )
My point with this is it wasn't built from the ground up to be 'comp'. Now it feels like they want to go that direction (maybe? Would love some bhvr input here lol). But currently, 'comp' is a fantasy that most are glossing their eyes with. DBD just isn't there imo. Happy for anyone who is enjoying that aspect though. Just brings out a lot of 'problems' players are complaining about.
At the very least, they should balance generators and iron out what an appropriate speed for everyone that makes it feel okay but also lets Killers breath is before they do ANYTHING to the rest of the game. They're doing the latter before the former, that's the problem here.
I agree. I wholly agree. And while we as players can go back and forth about 'Well tbags/genrush! Well tunneling, slugfest!' the overall 'fault' lies with the creators. But we remain attacking one another with blame instead, and its kind of maddening. So I simply cannot take the game to that level in my mental. Its just not there. (This might have been a slight tangent, apologies lol)
Generators, imo, not only need speed looked at, but interaction? No game with this much potential adrenaline rush should have such loooooow spots like doing a generator. I assumed it was an equal and opposite feel to balance it, but I also feel thats 'unfair' (Watch what I do here!) because there is now equal low for killers. Well, maybe? Would love input here from others.
Thanks for the chat though. This has been quite enjoyable lol <3 Just woke up so Im sure Ill have some things to fix.
edit: grammar
I couldn't agree more with all this, and don't worry you're fine. It's hard to form thoughts after just waking up, friend.
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The most fun you have is when you aren't playing?
… Then why do you play?
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Well because what tends to happen is you get on what I like to call the Killer Treadmill. That goes like this:
- You find a Killer you really like. You click with them well and learn them.
- You play them a lot and find yourself winning many games, because you got to know how they work. Congrats, you are competent at The [Killer].
- You then keep stomping everyone until you hit the MMR soft cap with them. Once you hit this you face decent Survivors who know how to play, and you start getting confused why you are losing. Realistically, it's because you're good but not yet super competent.
- You get frustrated and do one of two things. You either call the Killer trash and drop them, or you actually start to learn how they work and REALLY get good. Congrats, if you do the latter you now are very good at The [Killer].
- You continue to do OK and then finally hit another stopgap point. Now you are struggling again so you need to start adding in stuff like multiple gen perks, strong meta, etc. to stomp more and more, and of course you don't want the shame of going back DOWN in MMR. People will call you a baby. You won't pip. You will feel an ego wound. So you start playing really nasty.
- You then hit actual high MMR by playing this way, and wonder why you can't go further, so you "trade up" to another Killer hoping to stomp.
- Go back to step one.
In all cases for all Killers you get stuck on this treadmill. It's easy to do because the game supports it and encourages you to always win all the time, because it punishes failure by giving you less of the BP and dopamine you want. The only way off the treadmill is to stop caring about winning so hard, and just play the Killers you like for the sake of playing the Killer. Stop "trying to improve" and chasing the win dragon. Allow yourself to lose more and START playing the way you REALLY want to play instead of falling into a miserable cycle chasing dopamine highs only possible if you win. It's very hard to do that, but the more you do it the easier it gets.
tl;dr - Killers feel they need to win all the time because that's what the game and this community SAYS matters, constantly, all the time. And then when they don't do that, they feel inadequate, especially if they play Killers not traditionally seen as strong. And this happens to everyone who plays Killer at SOME point in their career in this game, because it's extremely easy to feel you have to win when the game rewards wins and punishes failures.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3862757#Comment_3862757
What else in the game, either side, has ZERO tradeoff for how powerful it is? I can't think of very many.
Lightborn is my pick!
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Man, everyone thinks if something happens one one side, an equal or better thing should happen to the other side.
If you're at a birthday party and the birthday person gets gifts, do you start asking for gifts also? Weird…
Gen speed can be looked at without anything happening to killers.
Tunneling can be looked at without anything happening to survivors.
I know I claim to not have a lot of faith in BHVR, and I don't. But I think they could do these things if they stopped trying to do many things at once. I wish they had more focus and set better goals.
I respect you and agree with some of what you're saying, namely a lot of stuff being looked at without regards to one side or the other however there's one important thing I think you may have made a bad metaphor about: DBD isn't a birthday party. There is no "special side", it's more like a dance party or a pool party. It's a competitive game, and everyone needs to be given consideration to make it a fun party. If we just focused on one or two people at the party, then that's to the detriment of everyone else, unlike wiht a birthday party where one person (side in this case) is the focus.
In DBD, both sides' fun matters or should matter, it's not always the Killers' or Survivors' special day - everyone is here to just have a fun time in the game. So therefore, if we want a balanced experience, then yes. There needs to be balance and equality of stuff both sides. SOME. Right now, the impact slugging has (not so much tunnelling, there's perks for that) is too high, and ditto the impact that generator perk and item stacking has. It can easily be fixed as you said without harming the other side. But BHVR doesn't do that - it focuses on one side then nerfs the other. Killers can't use a lot of aura read perks because of Distortion countering it all? Nerf Distortion even if it's helpful for some Survs. Survivors can't do gens at all because generator control is strong? Nerf the crap out of all the gen perks despite them being extremely helpful to necessary on some Killers. The issue is the other side is never considered.
At the very least, they should balance generators and iron out what an appropriate speed for everyone that makes it feel okay but also lets Killers breath is before they do ANYTHING to the rest of the game. They're doing the latter before the former, that's the problem here.
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@Falcao said:
Imagine that someone (probably many) started playing before patch 6.1.0 and for a long time saw only nerfs of survivors. Of course, at some point they got tired of it and now we see that the waiting time in the queue for killers is quite long, and in events, tasks can only be completed as a survivor. This is what we have come to, not boring killers.
That's true, not everyone started in 2016. I started in 2022 and even from then til now, the game has massively changed. It was a bit more Survivor-sided (but not overly so) in 2022, now it's balanced to more Killer-sided. I am under the impression BHVR always wanted to make it slightly Killer-sided, but for many reasons things happened and the game ended up Survivor-sided until fairly recently, as in about the last two to three years.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3862754#Comment_3862754
Minecraft has always grown and will always do tho.
Minecraft is also not really the same caliber of game as Dead by Daylight. It's more of a collaborative and/or sandbox game. Good catch though!
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This happens in basically every server and every event, but it's more prominent in some countries than others. And yes, MMR exists for events/modes, but it doesn't gain or lose. You can only gain and lose MMR in the basic game.