GonnaBlameTheMovies
GonnaBlameTheMovies
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Well I'm in a weird boat as a Stealth Killer Main - I appreciate Toba's dense foliage, lack of LoS to hide behind for ambushes, and large Main for Terror Radius change tomfoolery, but don't like how it's a pretty large map with fairly easy to loop strong structures including two shacks for some reason. I also don't like that it's such a nightmare for any speed Killer, playing Billy, Blight, even Legion on this map is a nightmare. Playing Demo, Bubba, or anyone who has odd collision mechanics is even worse. As Pinhead your box is always well hidden but your chains catch on literally everything, I can only imagine the issues someone like Xeno or Slinger have. And don't get me started on ranged Killers trying to do anything here, this map is awful for them. Basement is either in the hard to defend Main or one of the Shacks, neither of which are good positions. The loops are kinda rough for M1s, and the pallets are pretty much everywhere with few of them being weak or mindgameable.
If I end up here as Ghostface or sometimes Myers, I am pretty OK with it. If I end up here as Dredge, Pinhead, Sadako, Wraith, Oni, Nemesis or basically anyone else that I play, I'm over it. And if I end up here as Blight, Billy, Slinger, Trickster, Demo, or Legion I honestly just want to DC.
It's equally annoying as Survivor. The little ramps and different loops are cool, the Main is nice, and the hiding spots are plentiful. But finding gens or people on hooks here is awful and one of the few hints you get are these hard to spot little blue glowing flowers by the gens; they don't even show up near every Toba gen. Reading where vaults and pallets are in all of this red and yellow is awful, I can't see anything. It's also hard to see Survivor or Killer auras in general, it's just really rough.
For both sides, finding the gates is hard when they're so far apart, and things like auras, scratch marks, and blood also blend in a bit too much, just like on old Borgo. Objectives (hooks and gens) also feel like they blend in and that doesn't feel good.
I get that BHVR wanted to make us feel like we were in an alien realm unlike our own but this just wasn't the way to do it, and IMHO Nostromo is worse for the same reasons - Okay Main, kinda crappy large map with poorly designed loops that are hard to chain, and hard to find gens/hooks. Honestly I think MOST players both sides do not enjoy these maps at all, I can't think of many who do actually.
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Ping has been awful this event; even in customs I'm missing hits I should have made and making hits I really shouldn't. I have solid internet, my ping has never or rarely been an issue, and now it is. I am being teleported as both Killer and Survivor forward or back a bit and the jarring jump of this happening is quite nauseating.
Something is really messed up with the servers and their connectivity. This happens a lot during events and modes in general too, is it possible that the event/mode servers are messed up specifically?
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Friend, there's no such thing as a bad Killer if your mindset isn't comp. Embrace the casual Killer mindset, do not play Killers like Skurchent or Legion to win. Play those Killers for funsies.
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This.
As a Survivor player I do not wanna play with bots. They suck at doing objectives and half the time lead the Killer to me.
As a Ghostface Main I do not wanna play with bots. They reveal me through walls and from the basement when I am 60 m away in Night Shroud trying to stalk one of the actual players, and they can see auras through Undetectable for some ungodly reason.
As a DBD player I do not want to play with bots, ever, and would rather everyone just die or the round just end with anyone left over being escapees and any bots being insta-killed, and everyone getting the points they would have for how much of the round they got except for the bots. Give the points the bots got to other live Survivors and the live Killer; if the Killer DCs dole the points they got out to the Survivors.
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@LordGlint said:
I think they're mostly just weary about big numbers since you can stack it with other genspeed perks. If these perks WERENT stackable, each one could be made better.
They're weary about stacking perks, and yet toolboxes specifically Commodious gets a pass?
That's the same argument you could make for "well but you don't see Coup and All-Shaking Thunder that often, who cares if it stacks on Wraith and Myers to make ridiculously hard to avoid lunge distances?"
I'm not saying that any of the perks are a problem on their own or even combined. I'm saying there's an issue here. The issue is toolbox repair speed, specifically toolboxes that do not have a low charge tradeoff FOR their faster speed, which is primarily event toolboxes and Commodious. Either adjust charges, adjust speed, or add a tradeoff because right now? There's zero tradeoff. What else in the game, either side, has ZERO tradeoff for how powerful it is? I can't think of very many.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3862624#Comment_3862624
Well, I agree, but until the meta shifts for killers, I'd rather it stay like this. It would just create more complaints that things are killer sided atm. Should this matter? Nah. But even Im getting fed up with how trials are far too similar atm.
I feel the event should be good for gens going slow. Why do an event at all if its just the same copy/paste stuff? I was berated because I threw a snowball while being chased. lol like wut
That's all really true, and IMHO why they should have addressed Survivor gen perks and tools at the same time as the Killer gen perk nerfs. But they missed that boat by a mile.
If they address it again it needs to be in relation to something ELSE buffed for Survivors… like chase or interactive tools/perks.
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@camping_site said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3862627#Comment_3862627
so i will clarify, it hasn’t grown for years
The game is nearly a decade old. There's other Assym games now. Yet they are still adding content and still making money.
What game do you know of that CONTINUES to grow its playerbase after almost a decade of being live? I know of precisely zero except maybe Overwatch and WoW.
And yet.. we still get chapters, licensed and new, and the game still makes money. So obviously playerbase growth isn't a problem. At least not yet. It would be a problem if a bunch of people stopped playing and I mean A LOT of people. This is because as games age, playerbase growth tends to slow down. It grows exponentially for years, then starts to plateau. It's been 8 years, everyone knows what DBD is and what its about. They're not gonna bring in any more super new blood rapidly like they used to anymore… and that's normal and fine, and healthy, as long as they are not LOSING more players than they bring in.
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Functionally the only way a DBD II should happen is if the 2v8 mode BECOMES DBD II. Like, they're fundamentally different gaming experiences. Just do it if we're gonna have a DBD II.
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These can be annoying but they really aren't that awful. I do however believe griefing both sides ought to be addressed, though.
It isn't really stuff like flashlights or stuns that are an issue. It's stuff like generator perks and commodious toolboxes that push gens so quickly, Killers feel they have no time to slow the game down unless they push super hard. That leads to more slowdown perks on a Killer and less fun for everyone. We should be asking the Devs to nerf Generator progression tools that are too strong, not remove Killer-Survivor interactivity.
I'm never frustrated I get blinded or stunned. I AM frustrated when the round is over before I got much chance to use my power or chase anyone because the Survs were more interested in getting in, slamming gens, and getting out. That's not a round, it's as much of "not a round" as when a Billy comes in to slug everyone at five gens. It sucks.
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It's pretty well known that number of active players at any one time tends to fluctuate. I wouldn't worry about this too much friend, it's normal for some ups and downs or even periods of no playerbase growth.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3862610#Comment_3862610
Yeah, I can agree with this.
Ideally, imo, changing anything that messes with gen speed and haste (Through perks) for either side should go. Bloodlust can stay lol.
I think it might be time to look at Survivor gen stuff now, there's been a lot tweaked or added and it's probably for everyone's good if gens do not go too fast OR too slow.
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A lot of newer Killers have these weird multi-kits, and I think they're slightly problematic in that you have to make them all individually a bit weak or the entire Killer is too strong. Dracula has this issue for example.
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OLED isn't very common anymore is it? Not so sure this is as big an issue these days. But I'd be all for a UI cleanup.
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I'm sure you could cheat that way but it'd be a weird thing to cheat that way, instead of just insta-completing gens or something. I'm pretty sure someone who wanted to cheat in a way that boosts repairs would just do that instead, but I don't even know if that IS a possible cheat. If it is I haven't ever seen it.
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This is still happening, just got this glitch in a round. Looks very silly, BHVR give my boye his camera back. :(
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I thought this was a real case for a hot minute until I read the part about the teabags in their mouths. Now I can't stop laughing.
Pure poetry, 11/10 would read again.
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@Yippiekiyah said:
Commodious Toolbox nerf should be a priority, remove 4% self unhook basekit and tie it too luck and buff luck overall. Many perks and killer add ons still need balancing/reworks and maps are by and large still awful.
Actually a good idea, forgot about this. The Commodious and Commodious-like toolboxes are a bit too powerful for how easy they are to get. Maybe we shouldn't have the ability to stack a toolbox with so many charges that goes 50% faster, and also a bunch of gen perks, especially because Killers got their ability to do so nerfed. It's really only fair.
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Knockout isn't healthy, change or get rid of it.
Ghostface buffs and some addons looked at, he still needs it. Trapper buffs would be nice. Undo some of the unneeded extra Chucky nerfs and rework Skurchent.
Anti-stall mechanic for two Survivors hiding and crouching around dropping items at the end, that should never be a thing. You shouldn't be able to pick up and drop an item to hide as one of the last two people in a SWF together to force the Killer to stay in the round; let everyone just move on and stop wasting time being petty.
On Survivor side, anti-slugging mechanic. Please, it's not fair and it's overkill. And more incentive to hook, slugging is boring for everyone. I hate doing it, I hate having to do it, I hate being it. There's never any need for anyone to slug people and leave them to bleed for four minutes, or to slug anyone at 5 gens. That legitimately shouldn't even be possible unless your Survivors are really, really bad.
Rework some maps, we still have too many maps that are one-sided either for Killer or Survivor. Maps should never be sided.
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@radicalboons said:
this perk rly only works if you also run a chase build and SWF otherwise it isnt that great. 5% boost on all repairs dont get you much when something like resilience would be better at 9%.
@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3862595#Comment_3862595
5% on 3 people vs 9% on 1 person. Gotta remember that 1 perk slot is boosting 3 people whereas you'd otherwise be using a perk slot on each person to beat that.
This is really true. It's a lot of spread-out pressure if you know how to chase and it can create issues especially for M1s. I've been hit by it and it doesn't feel great to be punished for chasing… honestly I don't think any perk should ever punish chasing a Survivor, isn't that the whole point of the game?
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There's this one of like, a voguing twerking Ghostface and it's goofy as all hell and it lives in my head rent free.
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I had a really good day after I got some guy banned for harassment in the chat after a game. :) Was playing Survivor and they just LAID INTO ME for playing less serious, me getting out and not them. I mean just some of the nastiest slurs. My 3 man and I repirted them.
I load in the next day sometime around Haunted by Daylight to see exactly what you did but for Harassment. Yay! :D -
It's been real weird how for some reason, certain Killers get more BP than others and some miss out. It's also really weird how you can get less BP as Survivor than Killer gets for less effort. I just… don't think we need to have the emblems get harder to achieve more of the higher the grade goes, what is even the point of that if you already play a lot?
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I agree this could be a good tweak, I wouldn't even mind it as an M1 Main. It certainly needs something.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3804339#Comment_3804339
I don't own mirror illusion, but I imagine combining it with wiretap and blast mine makes every interaction a delight to see.
At least I hope so when I 'fall' for it. Like cmon, it HAS to be funny.I personally do not run Blast Mine because I honestly don't find it that amusing to use. I just kinda feel bad like I made the Killer look stupid, and I don't like feeling like I made someone else have a bad time, period. I'm sure plenty of Killers find it funny, but I don't really like getting hit by it back to back because I feel like it's kinda petty, and so I don't use it unless I need to do a challenge. I dislike using perks on people I wouldn't like used on me, which is also why I don't like to run Knockout. It just feels BAD to me, I feel BAD. That's also why I refuse to kick gens too much and run perks that facilitate that style; I have gotten hit enough by Blast Mine that the novelty has worn off and I'm just sorta over it. I once had a lobby too as a baby Killer where everyone was running Blast Mine and I just… couldn't kick any gens period, so I couldn't really guard gens. It felt bad, it wasn't fun to deal with, and I was over the perk immediately after that. I'm sure glad they had fun, but I really didn't have a good time at all. The joke kinda wore off after a bit, and once a joke isn't funny anymore it just becomes really obnoxious.
Mirror Illusion however? Funny as hell and I always feel like you're super clever when I actually fall for it (I rarely do but it's funny when I do). Head On? Hilarious. Pebble or that locker distraction perk I forgot the name of? On my God please yes I'm giggling every time. You actually hit me with Flashbang? Chad move nice fireworks, that's hard to pull off. Plot Twist shenanigans, Lute Perk, etc.? You get Hatch you're friggin' hilarious.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3804128#Comment_3804128
It annoys killers but it also wastes time. And for what? Survivors doing gens? This may not be the strongest survivor perk, but it is free and it wastes killer's time. He either has to take the stun and then kick it again, or just decide not to kick gens for the rest of the match, which is huge either way. So even the most joked about survivor perk (even though it shouldn't be) is still viable against any killer.
It doesn't waste as much time as you think though, it's only a couple seconds. Once a Killer realizes Blast Mine is in play, they will simply not waste any time on kicking and just go for slugs or chases - or they will hope you 3gen yourselves, made even easier with Blast Mine in play because people running Blast Mine really really REALLY want the Killer to kick. If the killer doesn't someone inevitably finishes that gen, and then you usually end up 3genned if the Killer is any smart.
People do not run Blast Mine with any actual strategy in mind. They run it for the fun of seeing the perk go off, that's the whole appeal, which is why BHVR ner-buffed it - a nerf to the time (it lasts shorter on the gen) but also a buff to how frequently it can be used (because it's 40% of a gen not 50% anymore).
And perks that Killers already use - Surge, Grim Embrace, DMS, Pain Res - all instantly counter it by regressing or holding gens FOR you so you don't have to kick them, meaning the Blast Mine is utterly worthless and zero of the Killer's time is wasted. It might be viable, but it basically does little more than annoy the Killer and tell you what you already know - the Killer kicked a gen you were just working on and is right over there. It also provides light info for SoloQ, but not any better than Wiretap which is much stronger in literally every single case you would ever need for finding a Killer this way. It's certainly not strong enough or useful enough to ever truly be meta. And frankly, it shouldn't be, because it's more or less JUST a perk you run for funsies and to get Blind challenges done without a flashlight.
It's also not free. It's a Jill Valentine Perk. Jill is a character you can only buy with Aurics or through the Resident Evil chapter. Definitely not free unless it comes to the Shrine.
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@devoutartist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803705#Comment_3803705
they aren't gonna do that here's the thing if you play any game you realize that ppl that play in a group that are competent is really REALLY small most of the games that becomes too much in a no groups setting usually loses a lot of players or worst they die dbd ain't gonna die i'm not saying that but will def lose a lot of there player base you'll def will feel the impact in the long run
the funny thing is currently 2v8 did solved a lot of the current issues like for example the class system covers all the basis of seeing the killer seeing the the map environment windows pallets info that you get in swf seeing gens you get to see the class in lobby witch you can adjust your own class to complement ect ect.. you get the ideal and on top of it the cage system fixes all the proxy/tunneling problems outside of slugging a majority of the problem got fix in 2v8 bdb almost beat it's peak all time players count and was around 80-75k players strong all the time the game mode was up
here what's gonna happens the population overtime will decline if 2v8 doesn't become permanent i know they said it will but just in case covering my basis or when 2v8 comes out 1v4 will fall into irreverently witch will hurt behavior bottom line in the long run unless they go full skin micro to compensate they really need to address it there gonna be a rude awakening for em they need to address 1v4 soloq or it will fall in the long terms funny enough 2v8 was fun for both sides so yeah
The issue with 2v8 though is it so heavily splits the queues in ways that modes like say, Chaos Shuffle and Lights Out or the events don't, it actually breaks the game badly. 2v8 can't be permanent until it's fully realized and balanced, and it just is not there yet. There's not enough Killers in 2v8 yet to warrant it, and there's not enough novelty for people to want to play more Survivor in it. I agree it should be some kind of ongoing mode, just not right now. It needs to be polished more, which is why I am glad it's not coming around as permanent any time soon. In fact, just making Chaos Shuffle, which also solved many of these issues, permanent right now would probably be the much better option; 2v8 is NOT there yet and any attempts to bring it back sooner are only going to cause more problems than help.
I do need to point out much of that peak you mention for 2v8 actually came from the free weekend. After a few days, it declined to a more normal rate even after the extension. And in that time, it so destroyed queue times because of it pulling people away from the main mode, it was hard to even find a game as Killer in 2v8 or the main mode. It just can't come permanent yet, no matter how much everyone wants it.
The population is actually, currently stable without 2v8. Populations of players always decline between chapter releases and events, we have a PTB on right now pulling people away, and a mode that many people aren't all that into just ended anyway. Your argument does not make sense because there is no actual playerbase decline.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3804083#Comment_3804083
My point is that it's just taken for granted that one is okay and other is not but its just arbitrary. You just walk around the map you' ll find the generators, they are not that far apart, when survivors are working on them you will hear them, etc. I mean, you are saying survivors are stupid if they need windows, well it sounds to me like killers are stupider if they can't even find the generators that literally make a sound while vaults and pallets do not. So basically I am just pointing out a double standard that is there for no reason. I'm not saying killers shouldn't be able to see the generators, I'm just saying that the idea that one is automatically fine while the other is not is not valid. Since Bhvr. wants to make this into completely a chase oriented game they should lean into it, let both sides know what resources they have available and then whoever can actually execute the best will win. If WoO just causes survivors to run from pallet to pallet dropping them then they will use up all the resources and make an easy win for the killer anyway, so even with it they will still have to develop skill to actually use that information in an effective way.
How many times do I need to say it?
Killers need to find Survs to chase. Survs are often near gens, so they need to know where their gens are to find Survivors. They need to have an idea of where their "flags" that Survivors "capture" are for that reason. This game is capture the flag meets tag meets hide and seek. Protecting gens is to a point part of the description of Killer. It's not arbitrary, it's not "taken for granted". It's part of the game basekit, the same way other things are part of the basic game balance.
To make this game work in the 1v4, Killers need to know where gens are to strategize against the team. It helps them, basically, plan things out because they are alone working against four people, so they HAVE to think and plan quickly across the whole map, which means they need to know basically the whole map. They can't really go looking for Survs at the start if they have no clue where Survivors will be because they have no clue where gens will be… or do you really think it's fair to make Killers waste even more time searching for gens and also Survivors instead of just… chasing Survivors? That doesn't seem right or very fair to me at all that you think Survivors need to know where all resources are at, but not Killers.
You cannot seriously think the game would be better if the Killer had to flail around looking for where Survs are just GUESSING where gens MIGHT be on the map from the word go, my guy. That's like saying Survivors should never get haste after being hit, have no pallets, and have no loops. Those are all Survivor resourced the way gens are part of a Killer's resources to protect and prevent Survivors from escaping. Holding down gens is how they waste Survivor time to get Kills, and gens are where Survivors cluster so it makes sense they know where gens are to check for Survivors easier to chase them. They are supposed to guard them to some degree and there's even an emblem for it, because guarding gens means preventing the Survivor's objective means more time for their objective. Why are you asking to take away a functionality basekit that helps Killers chase Survivors, isn't that what we want Killers to do more of? Chase, I mean?
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@dwight444 said:
gen rushing is not common to the extent of people imaging Hens and his 3 pals who are trying to break a record for quickest match time and load in with the perks and game plan to do so. The average killer who gets 'gen rushed' is losing a game where the team actually completed the only objective in the match in the same way that you go to work and perform the same function day in and day out; it is your job. The only job a survivor has in a match is to complete all of the gens.
you are not losing a match due to one bad chase unless you refuse to abandon it knowing very well that you are being outclassed by the other party. You choosing to engage in that chase for an extended period of time, knowing it is taking you an extended period of time, is not cause for nerfing or buffing either role. Besides, you are bound to come across better players, better teams, bully squads, etc. as you play, it is what it is.
killers will always be incentivized to kill one person asap because it is the easiest way to tilt the game in their favor. 3 v 1 at 5 or 4 gens is very difficult for your average, uncoordinated solo team which is what most matches consist of. It is doable, but you need a lot to happen right and a lot of stuff is just out of your control as an individual member of the team.
It may not be common, but please answer - why do Survivors deserve so many tools to push gens faster, and yet Killers aren't allowed any strong generator control perks because of one single bad meta for Survs and two Killers who used to be able to 3gen really well? It feels like a double standard. How many items and perks for generators do Survivors really need?
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At this point I'm just hoping we get a massive buff to other gen related perks for Killer like Thrilling Tremors or some sort of new generator perk. This is absolutely absurd.
I mentioned this issue on the survey. I hope they listen. It's not cool that Killers have to keep running gen control that keeps being weakened, meanwhile Survivors have at least 10+ perks to help speed up gens in some way or reduce charges, AND toolboxes plus repair buffs when on a gen together.
We have anti 3gen now, BHVR. This isn't necessary, and I feel dirty every time I run more than one gen repair buff perk as Survivor. Hell, I even feel dirty running a commodious BNP spool now. This isn't fair.
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Because it's not actually a good perk, all it does is serve to annoy the Killer, and most KIllers have adapted to work around it by running other perks. :/
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????
Chucky is fine, he's just smol so you have to play against him differently. He's also got a different camera, so you play him a little different. He's not overly strong, he's a low A tier at best. He's actually pretty well balanced and none of his addons strike me as problematic. If anything he's a bit too clunky now. He could probably get SOME scamper back I feel like, maybe as an addon like with Freddy's pallets.
We don't need to nerf every Killer just because some struggle to play against them. And while a good Chucky is brutal, the average killer doll Main can easily be handled with a little situational awareness, just like any other stealth Killer with a dash.
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You know what I appreciate about Survivors?
How damn cute some y'all are. I genuinely love it when Survs stop, pause, and interact with me. The little on the ground wiggles when downed. Begging for mercy with their item drops. The boops to my lil' Ghostface nose. The petting me as Dracula. The ass-slaps, the little dances, the crouch conga lines, the Mori photobombs, people goofing off with my Pinhead's box and booping the piggy snoot, all of it.
I. Fogging. Love. Cute. Survivors. It works on me most of the time. It actually does work. I will always let you grab a glyph or go easy when you are struggling. Just please let me get a Mori sometimes, I just want the photo. Please get in my photos, that's the whole reason I bring Mori items and perks.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803980#Comment_3803980
These are the games where survivors kill themselves on first hook. I don't know exactly what data they have available, but presumably they could just look for games where survivors immediately try and fail to escape the first hook and then die without getting unhooked. If survivors are giving up in other ways that would be less obvious, but usually it does seem to be a DC or a suicide on the first hook.
I have no reason to distrust this number as I haven't noticed high numbers of hook suicides against any killer. I almost never have survivors do this when I'm playing killer, I never do this myself, my party mates never do this when we're playing in SWF, and even in solo queue it doesn't happen very much with my teammates.
I could easily see a world where it's 2.5% overall, but <1% in four-man squads and ~5% in solo queue. That's enough that you'd see it in a typical evening of playing. You might see a DC or two as well, and then all of a sudden you're at your couple of solo queue games a night with teammates throwing. It could well be MMR dependent too.
I can confirm even when I am playing annoying Killers like Pinhead, I actually rarely see anyone just give up instantly on hook. And when I do see it? I usually let someone go. I see DCs even less. Usually when I see them it's because they seem to be upset they failed to loop me, didn't get to do a certain thing, or failed at something… or their map offering didn't work, etc. It's almost always a salt response.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803743#Comment_3803743
Yes I don't "need" it and I run builds without it too, however it helps to narrow the gap between swf and solo que. Also why is it just accepted that killers get to see aura' s of all generators but the idea of windows being basekit is beyond the pale. As they nerf maps more and more I will just insist to the same degree that windows should be basekit so players can actually see the few windows.and pallets that are even left on the maps. I am even more conviced i am right about this as they nerf distortion and keep giving killers more and more wallhacks. If they are going to try and make it so killers know all the time where ths survivors are then the survivors should be entitled to know if a pallet has been dropped already. Its not such a big deal. Do you seriously think if they did make it basekit kill rate would go massively down or something?
Because friend, and let's say this together now… Killers need to be able to know where gens are to help find where Survivors are. They need it to cut down chase. They need it to find their hooks in a timely manner. They need it so they don't waste time on their goals.
Sorta like how Survivors need loops and pallets to be able to hold their own in a chase because they are slower than Killers. It's called a basekit mechanic. It's not going anywhere.
Meanwhile, you don't, definitley DO NOT need that info as Survivor. There's bright yellow fabric on every vault and all pallets are red and blue, WoO is not a necessity even in SoloQ. Hell, I escape games without it all the time.
Please just admit you think SoloQ players are stupid and need this autopilot perk to do well. They don't. I don't think they do. And I see lots wrong with free info you get just for loading in as Surv on all routes in the map, but nothing wrong with just making it have a teensy-tiny cooldown; how would that impact how the perk works at all? Tell me, why do YOU think Survivors deserve to freely know where everything is, but Killers shouldn't get that at all?
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@Paternalpark said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3801821#Comment_3801821
Idk about their stats. They said low mmr chases are average 1 min while high mmr is 70 seconds.
HOW?
Easy… because high MMR killers and survivors get there either by overuse of strong perks, using strong strats, or actually having enough gamesense to know how long and when to chase - and sometimes they still have to commit. The average high MMR Killer is not going to bloodlust III someone for no reason. The average high MMR Survivor is probably good at looping and running chase perks. Of course the high MMR chases last longer, both opponents are better matched at outplaying each other.
By the way, 70 seconds is 1 minute and 10 seconds. 1 minute is of course, 60 seconds. So high MMR chases last longer than low MMR chases, is the correct conclusion to take from this, and that pretty much tracks. Of course they take longer when the opponent is more skilled.
Please use the same format for things like times, don't try to skew evidence by hiding it in words.
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@Adrien said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/427275/pleaseee-bhvr-buff-solo-queue
As a solo Q survivor main, I can feel it.
The following solo Q buffs feel necessary :
- Make the survivor aura (not the killer one) from Kindred a basekit feature.
- Show loadouts icons in the "Escape" menu in game.
- For the anti-camp mechanic, show the filling bar to all survivors.
- Add HUD when Deliverance, Reassurance, Wicked are active and when Camaraderie can be activated, with a timer icon. Those clutch perks feel useless in solo Q because no one can coordinate around it.
- Remove the 4% unhook mechanic basekit to tone down impulsive griefing/rage quit scenarios, allow unhook with luck associated perks, offerings… and add a self kill prompt on hook when there are 2 survivors left (for the hatch game).
That's the most important part I can think about for now.
I agree with all these, actually. These would be fine. But then the caveat is, if you have these, Kindred becomes useless and needs a new effect.
@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803820#Comment_3803820
why is it okay for survivors to lose 60% of the time while the killer should expect not only a win rate that exceeds 50%, but a win rate that exceeds both their loss rate and draw rate combined?
It’s because I don’t see the game as a competitive faceoff between the two sides. I see it as a “climb the mountain” kind of game for Survivors. How high can they get before making too many mistakes, can they work together?
In this situation I see the Killer as just the minotaur in the maze. A bouncer/skill check. The better the Killer the more strict they are on Survivor’s mistakes. Easier Killers allow more Survivor mistakes. So the Killer’s mmr is pretty much the match difficulty.
Maybe at one point it was reversed and the Survivors were the security guard testing the Killer’s performance where every game was the Killer’s to lose. I’m glad it is reversed. I think it's better for a horror atmosphere that every game belongs to the Survivors and the Killer is the golem that tests their teamwork.
This is exactly how the game should be for a HORROR. GAME. People might not find the game scary anymore, but the game is still a HORROR. GAME. That means Survivors SHOULD lose more and SHOULD be disadvantaged. This is a horror asymmetric game. The Killer is, as HerInfernal says right here, there as a skillcheck. What fun is a game with easy wins even half the time in a HORROR. GAME? I don't want it easy when I play Survivor. I don't want a 50% winrate or higher as Survivor. I wanna struggle and feel like my escape was actually worth a damn, not like the Killer had to scrape and scrape to get a draw… which is (and yes, naysayers, the stats and math DO check out here, you're wrong that they don't because that's how stats work) what a 50/50 split WOULD and DID cause the last time we had it.
Ever wonder why we DON'T have a 50/50 split anymore? It's because it doesn't feel good on Killer side at ALL because of how the game itself pushes the idea of "3k or bust or you're a failure" with how it scores things. It's because the game was so miserable when we did have a 50/50 split, *Killer players quit.* The same thing happened during MFT era, Killer players quit. And then, Survivors had no games, or massive queue times, and only went against Nurse, Blight, Wesker, Spirit on repeat running full slowdown almost every round, because no other Killers could touch them. Is that really what we want again? No?
Then accept the game needs, for the sake of its health, to be at a 60/40 split and stop complaining you don't get to win more. Learn to savor the wins you do get. Stop being greedy for wins. You think it's that easy and wanna win that hard? Go play Killer. Ideally, go play an M1 Killer without any mobility and antiloop. Play until you get good Survs and then play a bit more. Then you can come back here and tell me how "easy" Killer is now… and that's when Killer is at the best it has ever. Been.
Repeating that, Killer is in the best shape it's ever been, so how miserable was it before that NOW only NOW it is in a good state overall? That is what you're asking to return to with a 50% Killrate, it's unfair. Nobody is going to stand for that. When will all of you asking for a 50/50 rate just admit you want easy peasy Survivor games again where you can make the Killer look like an absolute buffoon and call it a day?
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I agree, Lights Out is fun for a laugh or two and it was much better this time around. Not perfect, but BETTER for what it is. It certainly wasn't so heinously Killer-sided this time you couldn't do anything as Survivor, and it kept the fun bits of the first version - being spooked in the dark by people. I had a blast playing it both sides and will welcome it next time it comes around, which I hope it does. I even felt confident enough to use it to learn ambushing as Pig better.
However, the novelty does wear off fast, for some Killers including my Main it's a cakewalk, and it does feel limiting in some ways. That's why when it inevitably does come back, I hope it is once more only for a week and does not overstay its welcome or occur too often. In fact I could see it being a Halloween tradition, or elements of it coming to Haunted by Daylight. Spooky!
But I am so so so excited for Chaos Shuffle, I hope they extend it again!
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So then play a weaker Killer with non-meta perks instead of demanding unfair Killer nerfs because you want "a challenge" in a casual tag game at the expense of everyone else who just wants a game. It's actually kind of sad you take the game this seriously. There's no chance in Hell you have played Killer very long if you really think the game is so "easy" for Killers; either that or you mained strong ones. Shouldn't you then, if you like challenge so much, be happy Survivor isn't easy mode like this?
Thank everything you don't decide anything about game balance. You'd kill the game.
I think we're done here. Trying to get you to understand basic statistics and game balance feels like talking to a brick wall.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803735#Comment_3803735
Okay well you keep putting words in my mouth saying I said things I never said so there is no point in debating it. If you want to have an honest discussion then I will but you are just twisting my words; not even twisting them actually just straight up making up things you say I said.
How funny. You keep putting words in mine. Twisting mine.
You have not once even tried to explain why you think ANYTHING less than 60/40 in an assym is fair. You have ignored my stats. You have insulted me on these forums multiple times. You keep falsely calling Killer easy mode. You point out how Pity-Poor-Me Survivors have it, but never once spare a thought for Killers that are weaker than a B tier, who definitely do not have killrates of 60% and can often still struggle. You keep falsely saying Survivors have nothing when actually they currently have TOO MUCH gen control, and still have too many maps that favor them more than Killer gets. Killers have like one map that favors them now, Survivors still have several. Killers have their gen perks gutted because some, not even all, but SOME Killers could 3gen easily in the past, but Survivors get needlessly MORE generator perk buffs. And you continuously like to pretend that SoloQ is languishing so hard, when actually the escape rates for SoloQ are pretty close to SWF at all levels of MMR - so you like to skew statistics, too.
Please just stop. We get it. You're a Survivor-only Main who wants Killers to struggle and never win rounds so you can get an assured out half the time. It's alright to admit this. Just admit your biases. It's OK to do that. Please just say what you mean, or I and others will be forced to assume you're desperately trying to return this game to 2019, when Survivors had a million broken things and you could get free outs with a DH so Killers couldn't even lunge. Just admit you think things like endgame DS and old MFT were fair. It would literally explain everything.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3802032#Comment_3802032
I agree about the base kit Kindred and I also think Woo should be basekit (with ability to turn it off if it annoys you.) I might not think this if Bhvr wasn't ruining every map to make it so there's almost nothing left to use to loop anyway. And for those saying "that takes skill out of the game" being a neet and having time to play 10000 hours so you can memorize every permutation of every map is not skill.
WoO should not be basekit, you don't need WoO to loop. Please use other perks, get off the crutch.
I almost, almost want WoO hard nerfed with a cooldown JUST to shut up the people who insist they "OMG NEEEEED IT" for soloQ. You don't. I have won in SoloQ without it plenty of times. You don't need this much info to loop properly. Ever.
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@legiondoctor said:
Im not. Im gonna skip this survivor sided mode
Survivor sided? My guy, NOBODY CAN PURPOSEFULLY BRING META PERKS. It's nobody-sided, that's why it's so good.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803721#Comment_3803721
That's not what I'm saying at all. I don't even think killers should not be the "power role" and I am fine with the killer side having the higher winrate. I just think the kill rate has gotten a bit too high for the health of the game, just a bit, especially because the killer role is so much easier for new players than the survivor role. I think it is evident that things have just gone a bit too far to one side when you consider things like how the amount of survivors giving up keeps rising.
I actually think a lot of people look at that issue in the wrong way incedentally. A lot of mainly killer players view it as an issue of "survivor entitlement," but I think its actually become more of an "escape valve" at this point. It allows Bhvr. to keep kill rates higher than is palpatable for most survivor players, but because they know they have the option to "go next" if the match is boring enough they don' t actually just stop playing the game. If Bhvr. took out the ability to do this, as many in the forums want, they would have to actually work a little harder to balance the game in a way that keeps both sides happy. For example, while I don't know what exactly the kill rates in the 2 v. 8 were, they were obviously lower than in the base game. Because it is so much harder to "go next" in that mode, I believe if the kill rates were as high in that mode as in the base game a lot of survivor players would have stopped playing it.
Then if you believe Killers should be the power role, you should be fine with a 60/40 split and also fine with a max killrate at 65%. No problems here and you're complaining about nothing.
I don't get you, every time I see you you're always saying how hard it is for Survivor. But I still win about 40% of my rounds fairly, all the time. I don't see how Killers are overpowered when my winrates have not changed as Survivor whatsoever beyond it being a little harder to easily cheese wins for free. I suspect it's the same for most Survivors, so I guess… what are you doing wrong to have such abysmal results every round?
I'm not even a Killer Main, I play both sides equally. And even I can see that actually, yeah, it really is just about Survivor entitlement. It really, truly is. Because this game is, and will always be, balanced at 60/40. JUst as the Devs want. It'll never be lower than that ever again for the rest of its lifetime because the Devs do not want it to be for the health of the game. This is healthy, they believe it's healthy, because it's 100% *fine* and actually a true 50/50 at this rate regardless of what you say. If that is a problem for you so badly it ruins your game, maybe the game is just no longer for you.
And yes, saying you want Killrates lower because you think it's unhealthy whether you mean it or not, IS saying you believe Killers should never win and Survs should always get two guaranteed wins a round. Because that is what would happen at a true 50/50, and was in fact what happened in the past. Amd what happened? It lead to a mass Killer exodus that almost ACTUALLY killed the game. We can't go back to less because if the game feels so bad at 50/50 for Killers that people leave the role over it, then it not only indicates Survivors actually need MORE nerfs, it means that 50% as a killrate clearly. Isn't. A healthy. Rate.
I don't understand how you are repeatedly failing to understand this.
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@Laluzi said:
Slugging for hatch is extremely boring and it's bad game design that it's incentivized, but as long as challenges and achievements (and now mori offerings…) ask for a 4k, killers don't really have any choice but to try and work around the coin flip that can instantly lose them a game they won in every other respect.
Hatch has to exist, or survivors would always hide or give up as soon as a game started going poorly, but it consistently screws over the killer for winning.
They can still hide at two people, which is why we need a mechanic to make it completely impossible to remove the crows you get for being inactive when you get them. Period. If you want to rat this way, you get crows. No dropping items to remove them, only gens or chase will do.
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All, almost all, the changes stink except for the basekit Cypress and overall mori system giving points (everything else about it is hideous), some perk changes, and the Billy changes (he needed some toning down).
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@GeneralV said:
It would be amazing if those offerings were brought back. I think I would use a New Moon Bouquet every single game.
I would use weather and Moonlight offerings… basically all the time. It would take a lot of the sting out of getting bad, bright maps I can't hide in as Ghostface, or getting a dark and too hard to track in map as Huntress. It would be cool to add ambiance to maps as Survivor too!
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Lights Out was hardly an atrocity, it just wasn't your cup of tea. I had a blast both sides in it. :)
I'm very excited for Chaos Shuffle too, this mode was peak and always will be. The least sweaty mode. Chaos Shuffle should be permanent, screw 2v8.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803501#Comment_3803501
Why do killers need almost a 60% win rate defined as 3 kills or above. Just another example how killer has become the "easy mode" role in this game. Also how is 2 kills not a draw. Like 2 escapes is literally a draw for both sided if you are thinking of the survivor side as a team game. (Since I play solo que I consider if only I escape as a win for myself still but I know a lot of survivor players don't think that way. )
Because at 50/50, the Killers don't actually 3-4k half the time and do less the other half. They draw every round, while two Survivors always are guaranteed to win all the time.
At a 60/40, that is not true - that means a Killer 2-4ks about half the time, then 0-1ks about half the time. Meanwhile it means Survivors… have someone in the team escape about half the time. Balanced. Fair, though it doesn't look like it. A true 50/50
Meanwhile, a 50% winrate for both means a false 50/50. It means a 2k every single round, but that just means a guaranteed victory for two Survivors and a guaranteed no better than draw for Killer because of how the game calculates what a win for Killer is versus Survivor. A win for Survivor is them escaping, but a win for Killer is a 3k or better. If it's 50/50, then two Survs always win and the Killer NEVER gets better than a draw, so never wins.
So answer me this. Why do you believe, and why are you defending the idea that, Survivors always deserve a guaranteed 2 man out but Killers are never allowed to 4k?
Also if you don't have a SWF, try reaching out and finding others on official channels. Maybe even here on the forums. It won't kill you to make new friends.
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@MB666 said:
funny enough my games as killer on this gamemode are so EASY even with this basekit buffs for survivors; meanwhile as survivor my team still get totally destroyed in the first 2 minutes with barely 1 or 2 gens done (often by myself).
basekit: stealth , not worrying about perks , solo q survivors can barely work as a team due to the lack of information going on.
it makes some killers that rely on the hit and run playstyle insanely good and map mobility killer soo opressive.
what else do you need? like really, this mode is just killer sided to me if u think otherwise, u maybe are just bad honestly.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LPVLCR1XCAB1/image.png
not sure if MMR is active on this gamemode but holy ….teammates aren't great lately… for me atleast idk about the rest.
MMR is active, you just don't gain or lose it. The Devs have stated this to be true about modes multiple times. Ironically it means there's more breathing room, because you're less likely to be paired outside your league for winning/losing too much if that happens.
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@Arbmos1998 said:
Funny thing is 60% killrates isnt even a 3k on average, 60% would be 2k's most the time (Killer Draw) with the very rare off chance they get a 3k and thats across ALL levels of play. Going for a 50/50 sounds boring to me as that means you are wanting Killer (even though they already do) to draw majority of their games but this also means every game at least 2 survivors escaping (2 Survivors Winning) meaning every match you are wanting 5 gens completed. This doesn't sound like balance to me at all.
Because it isn't balance. It's asking for Devs to guarantee at least two Survivors always win. That's a draw for Killer but a win for two people. The game considers one Survivor escaping a win for that Survivor, but it also considers the number of escaped Survivors for Killer. And if Killer gets any less than a 3k, it's considered a loss for Killer by MMR, not a win. In a situation with a 50/50, that means the Killer almost always draws… and thus never wins.
Don't be fooled, whenever someone is saying killrates/winrates should be 50/50, they're actually JUST asking for free Survivor wins - and the Killer to never ever in any way win again regardless of skill, perks, addons, or time invested in play. That's not balance. Not one little bit. That's just asking for freebies.
So here's my question to everyone who says they want anything other than a 60/40 split and who TRULY BELIEVES the game would be fair if killrates or winrates for Killer were 50% when there is one KIller and FOUR OTHER SURVIVORS: Why do you all believe that Killers do not ever deserve to win while also believing that at least two Survivors should always and forever be handed wins without any effort or skill on their part at all?
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@devoutartist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3801640#Comment_3801640
they will lose a majority of there playerbase swf are a minority in this game they can't ignore it
Too bad, BHVR doesn't see it that way. I guess the SoloQers really better SWF up, then… shrugs