GonnaBlameTheMovies
GonnaBlameTheMovies
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@Moonras2 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796438#Comment_3796438
I brought up nightlight because you brought it up. I don't personally use it for anything. I prefer the official stats but even those can be impacted by many things. Which is again why I say it seems open to interpretation. I'm not even worried about the MMR here.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796001#Comment_3796001
I was just making the point that just because killers are at 50-60 doesn't mean survivors aren't way lower. At that point what is fair and what isnt?
I think it is obvious what BHVR believes fair is: a 60-40 split of Killer to Survivor wins, and they balance around keeping it not more than about 5% above or below that as a margin of error. If it's really too much BHVR can continue to balance as needed, or Survivors can continue to try and improve while Killers have some breathing room and learn to actually chill out for once.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796440#Comment_3796440
This isn't the answer. It would in fact be abuseable, we saw what happened in the past.
Yes it is the answer if it stops tunneling which it will. there is nothing abusable since from perceptive of survivor, they're just fixing abusable mechanic for killer. the answer to avoid said mechanic is also simple, don't tunnel and don't proxy camp hooks.
It will increase slugging. It is not, in fact, the answer.
Proxy camping is and always has been a non-issue with 95% of Killers, the only ones who can do it effectively are ranged and mobility Killers. Wh ypunish everyone for the crimes of a few? Does a Pig really need to have a fix for proxy camping when she can't even do it effectively? At some point it will start to hurt more than help.
And realistically? No amount of Endurance will save you from tunnelling, you only get to have it as long as you do nothing but chase. The Killer will still be able to come back and tap you the SECOND you do anything helpful for your team. Survivors could have Endurance from the start all round and it would still mean nothing because you still need to do Conspicuous Actions and a determined Killer will still in fact probably tunnel you through it if they really want to. I don't think we want a hiding versus slugging meta.
My question is what on earth has led you to say this is 100% coming to the main game? We have no evidence of that.
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Vecna is pretty decent, he's just not overpowered. I loathe tierlists, but if I had to I would put him high B MAYBE low A depending on map.
But then I overestimate Killer strengths. I believe Myers is a C and Ghostface is B tier, while Demogorgon is outdated and closer to a low B or high C. My takes are admittedly, scuffed.
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I'm seeing it more lately actually, and it's still counterable just the same: by having eyes and being careful. A perk being limited doesn't stop it, and yes… the nerf was needed. No perk should counter a basic part of the other side's kit so thoroughly you HAVE to play around the other side having it. That isn't fair.
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Well they're removing Distortion because people abused it to rat, people playing cheesy and poorly to annoy everyone else is why we cannot have nice things. Sorry, Charlie… :(
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@100PercentBPMain said:
Stealth or info is just better for anti tunnel in my humble opinion.
DS is nice as an extra resource to play with, much like a pallet but the existence of a resource doesn't mean it will get value.
Ds guarantees 4 seconds+ the extra chase which is nice, but I'd rather just not go down in the first place by using something like Scene Partner, Troubleshooter or Object.
DS gives the killer agency by choosing to play around DS and slug you. I say it's better to not punish this behavior but rather to remove the killers agency by not giving them the choice at all.
There is really no better antitunnel than knowing how to loop decently well. I don't even run chase perks but I know mindgames and tiles well, and I can make Killers drop chase easily.
I don't run Lithe, WoO, etc. I run a very limited selection of endurance perks, rarely OTR if I am being tunnelled a lot or something. And Killers usually leave me. Why? Because I know what I am doing.
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@steezo_de said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/426483/8-000-hour-survivor-vs-100-hour-killer
Yeah, the guy on our team with the highest hours has 14k. I'm close to 10k and everyone else falls inbetween 5-12. We go against tier 1 perk killers every night we play, in the off hours. This isn't new because before I stopped playing a year and a half ago, this was a thing. I remember the devs saying that they would rather put us in lobbies to play games than have us wait, even if that means MMR goes out the window. I never liked the idea. It's why my friends and I came up with our own objectives to make the games more fair. It seems even worse now because even with our team, we rarely have to wait long at all. A couple minutes at most, and in the off-hours, it's a crapshoot. Before, we'd have to wait between 5-10 and the games were more fair.
I think MMR works for the most part, but maybe 65-75% in prime time? I don't give it much weight during any other time. It usually does weed out the ultra noobs from the try hards, but when you're talking about the mid range, it's bad, regardless of time. Their best form of matchmaking was the system before this where you had to grind out of grey ranks, and if you were at red ranks after 3-4 days, then you were considered good, and it was pretty accurate too. But I doubt that's coming back, especially since they want to prioritize fast game queues.
As far as people making videos of them clowning killers. Yeah, when Ayrun makes those videos of him using "best xxx" builds, he has to play for days to get that right footage. He's said this himself and it's why he gets burned out making them. Sure it makes him look good, but it's not how it really is.
RE: Ayrun vids…
Spookyloopz does the same, she is pretty decent and even he wins and loses a lot on stream. Nobody is perfect at the game, clip comps are clip comps. My friend also does Youtube sometimes and she also needs to record a lot of rounds to find ones that look the most fun and entertaining, she also takes breaks often so maybe it correlates? -
I guess the big question is, why do Killers still feel the need to do these things?
The answer? Because the game and the community tells them they are trash if they don't win 100% of the time and play flawlessly, so they always feel they have to sweat this hard and use these tactics to win. That's just how the game and community are.
The fix? We start rewarding hooks over Kills, and start rewarding Killers for playing fair while also punishing extreme tunnelling, camping, and slugging so we can see which aspects of it are for tactics and which are just done to sweat out wins.
Lowkey normalizing BP gain so Killers like say… Ghostface or Sadako, for example, do not lose points in Chaser for attacking from ambush, would help. If people see the pip, they feel they made progress, they feel their time was worth it. At least, that works for me as Survivor, it should work as Killer, too that you can lose the round but still get something like a pip from it to feel like you made progress.
Basically, the sting of loss needs to be entirely defanged and the point of the game needs to be made not about winning, but having fun even if you lose. But Killers are not rewarded for that, only for winning. Hence…
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@SweetbutaPsycho said:
Honestly I think the issue seems to be that you dont play these killers often.
I took a longer break from DBD right after Xeno but was a Huntress/Plague/Meyers main before that. When I came back after Chucky release I bought every killer I was missing and started playing them for Adept. The first like 10 matches I had on each of my missing killers that I never played before were the absolute sweatfests that you are describing. 8k hours on every survivor, BNP, swf.
On the killers I played regularly before and am still playing now my experience is not nearly that bad but the survivors seem more chill and approximately my skill level.
So what Im personally thinking is that the MMR is confused on what to do with you, when it doesnt have enough data about you on that particular killer. The solution it goes for seems to be that it justs puts you in the highest available skill bracket that is queuing at that time rather than risking putting you vs a team that you would absolutely stomp.
So the solution would be to actually play more killer so the MMR gets more data about you . Im having pretty balanced matches now on the killers that got constant sweatfests before
This is the solution, you need to play a lot and play a variety of Killers. The game can't balance for you if it only has a few data points, no dataset can be accurate to anything if it doesn't have enough data. It will take time but you will get there.
Also, consider the time of day you play. There's a reason it's Survivor sided during the day and it's because everyone plays Killer then. Same for Killer at night - everyone plays with their friends at night.
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@TheTom20 said:
The main reason a lot of people camped in the first lights out was because it was so hard to see an track people so they camped the first person they found as trying to find something else was a nightmare. I remember games were killers could not find anyone all game.
This issue was super prominent actually, and it's WHY you only really saw info Killers in Lights Out. Nobody else could find anyone. I am not worried about these changes for Lights Out, I am more worried about Candelabras being apparently, able to hide information like gens from Killers. Why do Survivors need that? What is the point of basekit Residual Manifest? Not only does it seem petty, it's pointless, Killers can still just listen for gens.
On that note the muffled sounds idea is a bad, bad bad addition, it's already leaked into the main game as a glitch right now with audio. Sounds should be key to Lights Out, why muffle them especially for people who don't play on PC or with headphones? You just made the game impossible for half the playerbase to detect Killer OR Survivor. The only way this could feel fair is if the Candelabras somehow make for areas the Killers can see the Survivors better by using them, making using this item somewhat risky.
I suppose we will have to see when the mode launches. But I am a little concerned this still won't work.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796011#Comment_3796011
you realize these changes will be put into normal mode eventually? remember 60 second of endurance also comes with 10% haste for 60 seconds, so if you try tunnel people, you're going be in a world pain. BVHR is really putting the gas on peddle. Anti-camp and Anti-tunnel features.
There is certainly going to be A LOT less tunneling and camping in this mode. that is for sure.
They will never put a 16 m anticamp and 60 second basekit Borrowed Time into normal mode, stop. These changes are for Lights Out only, because Survivors need the buffs to make it fair. These would be overpowered in normal mode. They're perfectly fine for Lights Out, IMHO, and lowkey still easily can be gotten around and encourage more slugging… which is why I'm kinda skeptical they'll do much to help here. And they sure would not help in main game because again, MORE slugging. Yes you can bring perks to halt that, but do you really think Killers will care? They'll all run slug builds plus Shattered Hope and there goes the entire "force-slug me" plan a SWF might have, period.
They need to do SOMETHING about tunneling, yes. This isn't the answer. It would in fact be abuseable, we saw what happened in the past.
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@Moonras2 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796123#Comment_3796123
Ahh yes ty. I found that the survivors and killer page both have an overall section it's just placed in between the individual characters of both sides. I guess even then it's open for interpretation.
If I look at just the killrates, it shows killers winning at 51.7 percent, Survivors winning at 35.27 percent, and draws at 13.01 percent. I think I'm figuring that correctly.
If I look at just survivor escape rates its 42.17 percent. Though that doesn't seem to take draws into consideration.
This is of course changing but at the time I saw the numbers
I'd take Nightlight stats with a grain of salt if I were you, it seems clear they are based more on team wins/Killer wins being only a 3-4k, not individual Survivor/Killer wins. The game instead sees Survivors winning as an individual and Killers winning based on number of Kills, then adjusts MMR accordingly.
Damn but I wish we never acquired the Promethean fire of knowledge that is the existence of MMR in this game. We'd all be better off for it not knowing and being blissfully unaware, a Lovecraftian placid isle of ignorance in the midst of the Fog… it was not meant that we voyage far and learn such, but learn we did. Now look where it's left us all. -
@Halloulle said:
If someone was a little bit petty they'd say; since you only need to get one thing right as killer to win a match with most killers and builds the vast majority of times that leaves two options: the killers who do complain surv is OP can't even manage to get that one thing right — or these killers think they not just have to win the vast majority of their matches but all matches.
But in all seriousness; while I do think the above isn't necessarily untrue (exaggerated, yes - but not untrue) I do also think it's difficult to make a statement about "killers" collectively. There are huge differences between the killers and someone who plays a killer with a non-sweaty build and finds themselves on a map that isn't good for that killer might genuinely find that survs are OP and kinda forget to mention that they mean OP on that map against that killer with that build. As a player you shouldn't always have to bring the strongest of the strongest stuff to even have a shot.
This is the case very much so.
I play Ghostface a lot. I'm very good at him because I am good at stealth games. I can make him look S tier on the right map. I have played this one character for 2+ almost 3 years now and I am p68. I usually win rounds with him to the point I often feel bad and let people go, because he's my Main and I know it wouldn't be a fair fight. I run his Classic robes because I love Scream a lot. I do great on any map, as long as it's not bright and open. If I am running a lot of rounds, and I end up sent to a map where my outfit makes me stick out like a sore thumb, I functionally can't use my character. The whole reason I play Ghostface goes out the window and I end up being relegated to a basic M1 Killer that can hide his Terror Radius. And as an M1, if you send me to a pallet dense map, I can't do a whole lot either - you have too many resources. If I am on the Game and not enough gens spawn in the lower half which is better for stealth, I am once again forced to play mostly Chaseface with no Terror Radius. These are map design flaws. For Ghostface, Survivors on maps like Ormond, Coldwind (even with the pallet reduction), Gideon, and Eyrie can be OP.
Now let's try Huntress. I am a terrible Huntress, I rarely play her and am still learning. I am not good and struggle as her a lot. I suck at shooters so I suck at her. I cannot hit orbitals, I can barely hit normal hatchets. I am p1 and have the most basic perks on her, I don't do well as Huntress. I make her look F tier. Regardless I can still win if I try enough… as long as the map is open. If the map is not open, and people know how to counter me, I can't do much. I am a 110% speed Killer with a ranged attack I need to reload. If I am running a lot of rounds, and I get a closed in map like Lery's or god forbid Hawkins, I really can't do a whole lot except be a slow M1 Killer that can maybe hit you at short range unless you crouch and then you are magically immune - you have too many hiding spots. It's even worse if there's lots of clutter; I am forced to play M1 Huntress somewhere like her own Red Forest map because there simply isn't much other option. These are map design flaws. For Huntress, Survivors on maps like Hawkins and Red Forest can be OP.
I don't believe for one second the old canard that every Killer main, heck every Killer player, believes they need to win 100% of their matches. In fact I have rarely met any Killer Mains or players like that, most seem to take losses gracefully. But then again, when I do see it? The Killer is usually brand new or under 1000 hours of playtime, and thus still conditioned to sweat now ask questions later because they don't know any better yet.
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@dwight444 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796353#Comment_3796353
it's the new position from forum killers for explaining why they slug
The us vs. them isn't necessary.
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The only time I ever have to do this is if they let me do it, do it to themselves by playing in a way where slugging is the counter, or it's a total accident and I lose someone in the grass. Most Killers can't even DO this effectively anyway against an average, half decent Survivor, and it's fittingly rare to find in my Survivor matches. If I can win rounds hooking normally as Killers like Legion and Myers, at 1300 hours (a noob compared to most people here), then I think you will be fine hooking as any other Killer, too. It's not that hard.
Permit yourself to occasionally fail.
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What's wrong with playing Dracula like Spirit? All they did was make Bat better which is what people asked for, saying Bat was mediocre.
What's wrong with arguably the most overpowered form being nerfed a little? Wolf Form will still be fine and viable.
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This would be a cool idea actually, though we do have Undetectable Killers already.
Shadowborne is on the docket for changes. I'm actually hoping it becomes a stealth perk, granting say… haste while Undetectable like Wraith cloak, or a boost to something when you become Undetectable, or even giving Undetectable at the start like many Stealth Killers have.
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@Dallas_Corgi said:
I play both sides Killer and survivors but the survivor side of me is annoyed at killers who hold up the game by slugging for the 4k. I think this is somethng killers have atarted to do in general and it is very common place. If this happens i generally will hide because your intentionally trying to waste my time instead of hooking me.
I dont intentionally hide once it's a 2 v 1 personally bit I know alot of survivors become useless when it's just 2 which is highly irritating for me as well cause if the killer isn't finding you and there are w of you. You can still have a chance of escaping yeah it's not great but still.
So summary we killers and survivors need to be mindful of peoples time cause he'll I get bored being plugged ir also trying to find survivors that are just not doing anything.
Finally someone trying to approach this from both sides on the forums.
"It's been 87 years…"
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@Paternalpark said:
WoO is popular because it's part of core gameplay as survivor that and doing gens.
Being a good survivor means learning tiles and how to run them correctly.
The perk mostly benefits low level players. High level players know tile spawns and scout used resources.
If you think WoO is ruining your games, wait till you go against survivors that all have the same perks that punish killer snowball tactics, ie ds, unbreakable. They don't waste perk slots..
The problem, Paternal, isn't that just new players at low MMR are using WoO. They can't truly use it effectively.
The problem is that experienced players use it as free mapwide info with no consequence or drawback to always know exactly where certain resources are at any given time, and that's just too much information for a perk meant only for new Survivors to learn tiles. It's too free, with too much info. It doesn't improve looping, it makes looping trivial and creates an autopilot scenario. Plus it can trick people into learning bad habits, as Lights Out and Chaos Shuffle showed us - look how many people started to fumble and falter at loops without their WoO.
At some point you need to know loops yourself and how to handle a tile. WoO can actively hinder that. That's the issue with the perk. As you said being a good Surv means running tiles well. Using WoO tricks you into "run yellow to yellow and predrop" gameplay that half the Killer cast can turn into a weakness, and the other half can just mindgame you over all while you destroy resources for your team. It looks like a good pick, but it's a detriment to any team against a Killer with half a brain. And it's also just… the most boring form of chase imaginable. Try learning mindgames and checkspots, perhaps instead of WoO? -
@ppmd said:
Alberto is right about both of his points, but you can also just use your eyes to see pallets half the time. With eruption you didn't know exactly when the chase would end though so it's a pretty unequal comparison imo.
I don't know if I'd want windows basekit, or if it was made basekit I'd like a way to turn it off or reduce how vibrant it is or something. Too much stuff on my screen when I rarely use it LOLThis is another reason I don't use it and never have. I don't like all the visual clutter, it actually makes me Loop WORSE. I also just… don't need it? There's enough environmental cues I don't need it nor does anyone else really. Use your eyes, people.
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@Emeal said:
Map Offerings seems more like a Survivor tool than Killer tool, I have not used a Map Offering in Ages on Killer.
I think the game would be drastically improved by removing Map Offerings and instead make many different offerings that change the map in small fun ways.Realistically the only time I have ever used map offerings as Killer is a) to practice ranged Killers on open maps, b) to play fun jumpscare stealth builds/Killers on indoor maps. That's it, that's all.
I'd gladly sacrifice both Scratch Mirror RPD Myers and using Ormond to get a map with good line of sight for Huntress if it meant that we could get rid of the ability to force people into maps that favor one side heavily over the other.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796340#Comment_3796340
It's funny because killer players say slugging, tunneling, camping etc are all valid playstyles but then say survivors who Sabo or take hits with perks deserve to be bled out for four minutes.
Can we quit the us vs. them and just agree both sides have really obnoxious playstyles and they are all valid while also being annoying but you don't HAVE to play against them if you don't want to in this casual tag game? The polarization isn't needed here.
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@JPLongstreet said:
I agree the dodging and shopping around is very harmful for everyone, as it wrecks the matchmaking and leads to the awful backfilling problem so often complained about. Sniffing around for hours played or possible SWF is doing more harm than good now.
Letting their matchmaking system actually function should over time eliminate those horribly lopsided steamrolls. As far as cosmetics and items I think they can be shown still without the ability to dodge, so everything is sped up and the trial starts sooner. Surv perks can be shown as the trial loads in I suppose if that idea gets enough support.
When it comes to the pre-game chat, I'm dubious about keeping it. It's reputation is horrid, and the consoles cannot see or use it anyway.
I believe at this point both the endgame and pregame chat need to go. They both do more harm than good.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796203#Comment_3796203
Extremely interesting. This is sort of the inverse of a lot of posts I've seen from killer mains here. There was a post where someone was asking "do killer players really find [x playstyle] fun" - not even asking them to stop, just genuine curiosity about whether the playstyle was enjoyable - and the response from a lot of people was "how dare you force me to play a certain way in a game I paid for"
Not calling you out personally, because IDK what your thoughts on this are, but it's interesting to see "I don't want to play against certain playstyles" trending on the same forums. Wide range of opinions here to be sure
I don't believe any playstyle that is meant to tilt the other side can be considered fun, I believe those playstyles are basically, just allowed forms of griefing.
Nobody owes you a kill, a flashlight challenge, stuns, blinds, hooks, glyphs, a Mori, etc. And nobody owes you a round just because they queued up and happened to get your lobby. To claim that the other side HAS to play with you just because they loaded in to your lobby first, is entitlement. Plain and simple.
This goes for Killer and Survivor both: Nobody owes you a round if they don't want to spike their blood pressure, and it's infinitely physically healthier for people to… just not take games that look like they're going to be tilting. It's way more mature to forfeit than to force through a round that you know is just going to irritate you. In sports, that is what mature people do when they realise a game isn't able to be won or in board games when it's clear they aren't going against someone who values a good game or a good time - they forfeit.
Why should casuals want or need to play with sweats or bullies just because those people want a lobby? And that is ultimately why lobby dodging can, does, and will still happen in this game. Prestiges were never the reason why; any experienced player on either side can smell a noob or a sweat a mile away. Why would anyone, except those who really do want the challenge, want to engage in a battle in a casual game that they know they'll lose simply because they aren't bringing sweat?
A lot of players don't wanna sweat. They feel forced to, because the other side does. I play a lot of Survivor, but consider myself to main Killer because it's more fun: and no. Slugging, camping, and tunnelling especially from the word go aren't fun to me. I don't have fun doing it. I feel it necessary at times, but I don't have fun doing it. And as Survivor I do not have any fun trying to waste time going for blinds, going for sabotages, and doing stuff that I know just irritates the Killer for no reason other than to irritate them and make them look a fool. Like for example I get utterly zero dopamine from Blast Mine, I don't find it fun, the only reason I run it is for Blind challenges, which I also hate doing because I know they feel annoying to deal with. I don't find any of these nuisance playstyles fun at all, and it BAFFLES me that BHVR keeps doubling down on challenges and changes promoting them, and that so many people do enjoy them. Have fun, I guess?
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@Farenzyhawk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796203#Comment_3796203
this is entitlement, they aren’t bringing cheat codes. You don’t deserve to dodge because you fear you might not win
What is stopping the Killer from just DCing the second they see resistance, throwing the round, etc.? Nothing. What is stopping people who wish to bully new Killers or new Survivors if we have no pregame lobby? Nothing. Why shouldn't there be a place to prepare against a group?
This is a problem that has no end, people are allowed to have a second to prepare and to back out if they're not ready. That's what the pregame lobby is for. The actual entitlement is in expecting people who don't want to play to play with you specifically, then getting mad when they choose not to. Would you rather the Killer or a Survivor dodge before the game begins? Or that they DC mid round ruining it for everyone?
And if it's such entitlement, explain why so many people seem to agree with me on it? Nobody wants to play a round that they know is just gonna lead to frustration on the minimal time they have in the game. Some people only have a few hours to play; why should they be forced to play rounds that just give them a miserable time?
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795986#Comment_3795986
So challenge isn't a bad thing, there just isn't much interaction between the two of them, there is no challenge in constantly being forced to take hits because of overbuffed killer powers.
1v1 is becoming more and more miserable in the game, I'd rather killers get more to help in the 1v4. The chase is the whole reason I play the game, and gradually it's getting more and more taken away from it, now I'm not saying these killers are the worst for it but it's pretty bad in some cases. I'm just giving some feedback as to how it feels to go against them rn.https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796088#Comment_3796088
Thank you for the tips, I try not to be close when he gets close but there are times I play with newer friends to the game and you can't help at all due to the slows, I am a vigil user and the only counter right now I can come up with is dark theory for them.
This is why I'm saying them focusing on the 1v1 patch after patch is the most irritating thing as both a killer and a survivor, as I feel it misses the point. 4v1 should be the focus, map pressure, rewarding good play. Built in Corrupt or the like just more to help killers early game thats not a PERK.
1v1 buffs tunneling, it buffs everything people are complaining about right now, and it makes the game more inaccessible and unforgiving to learn for newer players.
People here might not see it playing only killer, but as someone who plays both the 4v1 is what needs attention right now, and perks should not be the only answer to that.That's all fair enough, and thanks for the nuanced response though I still strongly disagree that Killers are "overbuffed" now. If they really are too strong, BHVR can adjust them so they aren't overperforming too much beyond 60%. In fact it's likely that a good range is somewhere between 55-65%, which is where most Killers seem to be standing right now. Those that are further from the 60% are being adjusted while those overperforming - like Skurchent and Billy - are once more up for changes. BHVR's done a great job trying to keep things adjusted so no one side has too much power - I actually think many complaints from Survs stem more from being boosted for a long time, and not being able to freely win without certain things anymore to help them. It may be healthier in the long-run for everyone to be at a more chill MMR.
I think that actual discussion is sorely lacking in this community. Thanks for adding, not subtracting. :)
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Translation: "I miss being able to force Killers to not be able to lunge, because of the mere threat I might have this, thus making every chase more winnable especially against anyone without a secondary attack."
No thanks. The game is better off without cheap tactics like this.
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I don't see a reason ro remove pregame lobbies. But the Killer is, sorry, not forced to run against your aggressive squad if they don't want to. They don't owe YOU in particular a game.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795970#Comment_3795970
the problem is that this perk by nature is not one of the perks that killer will complain about. What they should be doing is looking at placing limits on perks like Exhaustion such as Lithe, Sprint burst, Background player, Decisive strike, Adrenaline, Deja vu, Build to last & Streetwise.
Placing limits on under-used/not popular just makes that perk appear less and the problematic perks stand out more.
You're of course right that all those things do need looking at, and that limits shouldn't be set on weaker perks. but I'm not sure I agree that giving Exaltation no limits at all would make the perk healthy for the game. It WOULD become a possible meta pick without any drawbacks.
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@WaveyTrey said:
My experience in DbD was far better prior to MMR.
As survivor I end up with incompetent players because all the better ones are pairing up even more to increase their odds of escape. Since escape boosts MMR.
As killer it’s either 4 lemmings, or 4 navy seals. So the trial ends super fast either way. I learn little to nothing these days. That’s why I stopped learning new killers.The best killers out there may agree that SWFs are a hit or miss. It’s because average SWFs abuse comms and perks (exploit) to reach higher brackets against average killers, but that can only take you so far.
That’s why we see big streamers stomping so many groups. Those players they face boosted themselves to the top via exploits, but are no match for a big fish even with their boosts.
MMR makes us obsess, and sweat over something we cannot see.
MMR doesn’t allow people to learn. Especially new survivors, or whenever you want to learn a new killer. You sink and sink and sink.Essentially all MMR really does is force us to get paired up with and against players we shouldn’t be with... The exact opposite of its original intention.
Why can’t everyone realize this?
We all need to demand that the devs change MMR in some way...
1.) Let us see our MMR once upon every reset.
2.) Rework how we rank up. Pipping should still count.
3.) Remove MMR altogether.You're mostly someone I agree with here except for one thing: using perks effectively isn't exploits no matter how strong the perks are, and the game does not consider comms to be anything even approaching an exploit.
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@doobiedo said:
I'm so glad people are finally realizing the game is killer sided at every level. For so long everyone just stated as a fact the game is survivor sided because it was that way years ago.
It wasn't Killer-sided until very very recently. It didn't start to change until arguably, 6.1. The game has been more Survivor sided for most of its lifespan. And crucially, it was never intended to be that way, because the Devs are and have been changing that.
8 years is not that long, it's two presidential terms in the US - or almost a decade. You can't blame people for feeling skeptical that the game really is more Killer-sided as the Devs intended it to be right now in light of the fact that it literally wasn't Killer-sided for at least 5 of the 8 years it has existed. -
What practical reason would they ever code in more than an on-off switch for something as ultimately meaningless, useless, and cosmetic as prestiges being shown in the lobby? It has no real tactical use as it gives no real info on skill, it's not complex enough to impact the game, it's literally just a HUD element. Why would any Dev put extra effort into making a HUD element visible for some people but not others?
The other issue - Survivors dodging newer looking or new players because "No, I deserve to win, no scrub noob Survs in MY Lobby! Put them in someone ELSE'S lobby! >:(" It's the exact same problem as Killers lobby dodging, it forces these baby Survs into harsher lobbies because everyone dodges the p0 Meg with the name horsegrrrl2792 for no reason, just because she is a noob. So now poor BabyMeg gets shoved in a SWF lobby way above her league with thousand hour Survs and a thousand hour Killer, and she has a horrid time because she dies fast because she is brand new and the Killer can easily keep finding her.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796135#Comment_3796135
I would disagree here (edit: with topdown balancing specifically in DBD). I think what is intended to be a party game vs what is intended to be a competitive game has to balance around these different factors. DBD is nowhere close to being competitive in any respectable setting, otherwise we would have perks and Killers actually be of comparable power levels already. Instead we have Eruption in the same category as Call of Brine, or Nowhere to Hide in the same category as Darkness Revealed, or Friendly Competition in the same category as Prove Thyself.
Now I do think that most Killers and Perks should be much closer to each other in terms of power, but it is clear that BHVR doesn't care whatsoever. It would require a significant overhaul for the game to be remotely balanced/competitive. This game will never be properly balanced, so if you want true competition, you are better served playing CS, SC, or DoTA2. I think it is good we have the Mario Kart equivalent to Lightning/Blue Shells/Star Power alongside Single Banana/Single Green Shell/Fake Block. The game isn't meant to be taken seriously, so someone spamming Star Power is the one who is rocking the boat and ruining the game for the rest of the players.
Hypothetically if they ever actually balanced the game correctly, then I think this top-down balancing could work. Sadly I don't see that any sooner than 2 years out at the earliest.
Edit: Clarification in the first sentence.
I think you're right about this and literally everything BHVR has been doing for the past year now has been in the service of trying to make it less and less comp - removing skill expression, adding modes, making Killers stronger, turning niche funny perks into perks that are ONLY about funny and have no real effect that could ever be considered that helpful, things like Hex: Two Can Play, Dracula being balanced but not THAT strong.
BHVR is 100% trying to get us all to lighten the Fog up, and yet the community keeps steadfastly refusing and going "no, this party game is competitive, you can't make us not sweat every single round for wins." -
Thanks for bothering to dig this up!
It seems clear form this then, that to keep the winrate equal, Kill rate needs to be higher doesn't it? Myabe I am tripping, but it seems like people mistake "60% Kill rate" as "60% winrate". Nightlight says Killers average somewhere between 50-60% winrate, so maybe a bit higher than expected but certainly within range.
So why are people complaining that Killer is too easy now again? it seems like the math here is mathing. And it certainly seems for an assym, this would be the balanced ratio, right? Why should someone who is less good at the game than they seem win easily at lower levels, and someone who gets boosted win easily at higher levels? If you don't like your results in game just lose/win more respectively?
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795796#Comment_3795796
Yes there are "I will always" DCs, there are "I hate this Killer" DCs, there are "the match is unwinnable" DCs, and there are "God why did I log in to play this horrible game" DCs, "I lost and my time is now being wasted if I don't quit" DCs and more. The "I will always" are the group that you are talking about, and is entirely fair to discard those, but all the other DCs are still valid (in comparison). The problem is you are acting like the "I will always" group is any amount greater than 50%, when it is probably 1-5% at most. you are ignoring 50-90% of games (with DCs) with legitimate player enjoyment problems because of one scapegoat, just like BHVR is when they ignore DCs towards killrates.
The "I hate this Killer" DCs are because so many Killers are so poorly designed, and there is no counter (for player enjoyment, not raw mechanical counterplay) other than "I hope I don't RNG into them". That's why so many people call Kobeing 'go-next'. Give me another roll of the dice, because you gave me an autoloss, or a Plague when I'm running a heal tome, or a Ranged Killer and a Pallet stun tome, or whatever reason the game would be unenjoyable on its face. That's the thing though, how often do you run into Plague? Yet somehow her pick rate appears to go up to 50% when you want to run a goofy heal build or get a heal tome done.
Survivor is built to lose, so you have to have fun in the planned loss. If you can't even meaningfully engage with the game such as getting build value, then you sadly are better off "going next" to a game where you can get build value/fun. The design needs to be fixed so this flaw can't occur. Killer bans at 1 per 5 released Killers (round down) would help fix this, and Killers can get map bans so Ghosty doesn't need to go to Autohaven with 0 LOS blockers, and Huntress doesn't need to go to Lerys.
Is it a player problem that the game is so dissatisfying when it using to be fun? That sounds like the players haven't changed, and the game did. That would make it a game problem.
This is kinda true of Killer side too.
- "I will always DC" is not really common on Killer side I find, I don't see Killers giving up based on Survivor pick.
- "I hate this playstyle" is the equivalent of "I hate this Killer" and it's usually because the Killer is sick of dealing with it over and over again. Understandable. This usually happens if many Survivors are playing the same style, and usually early into the round when they realize it.
- "This match is unwinnable" in my experiences most often comes from realizing your Killer can do nothing with the given map, the perks the Survs are running, or how fast gens go in relation to their own perks. It usually results more in standing in the corner or at the gate than a DC, because Killers get mocked harder for DCing and called out for malding, salting, rage quitting, or being a 'baby' when they do it. "They want the win more than me, I will stand in a corner." "I'm Ghostface on Coldwind and they want to sweat more than me, and my cosmetics make me stick out. I can't do much, so it's better to just go next." "I'm Dredge on a map with no lockers, GGs, I autolose." "I'm running a silly cat build on Blight who I am still learning, and these guys outrank me, I can't touch these guys so I can't learn, best to just give up and try again". This happens usually start to mid round, not at the end.
- "God why did I log in to play this horrible game?" DCs are understandable too, and usually occur when the Killer is decidedly outranked by the Survivors and on a nasty loss streak. Same as with Survivors. It happens. This often happens middle of a round.
- "I lost and my time is now wasted" doesn't seem to exist for Killers, if the Killer DCs it's usually mid or start of the round.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794629#Comment_3794629
Peanits said the kill rate and win rate are the same not long ago.
I'm newer to the forums so I'm not sure where this was ever said. Can you please dig this post up so we can all verify? I don't recall ever hearing this from any source before.
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I'm not entirely sure why a Killer being better now is "boring", don't you want more challenge as Survivor?
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No. If genrushing is an issue, don't buff gen regression - nerf gen progression. That's all that's needed. If gens are too fast with gen regression in this state, it is not an issue of gen regression being weak. It's an issue of gen progression being too strong for most Killers to handle.
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It's not "too strong" with OTR. Stop hardcore tunnelling.
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@Seraphor said:
Speaking of, if BHVR even acknowledge that Commodious is the best toolbox, why is it still green?
I agree.
Commodious should be a purple rarity, and event toolboxes should all be patterned on Yellow toolboxes not Green ones.
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Overused, easily countered, and a crutch perk for weak loopers. Shouldn't be this common as all it does is boost Survivors whose skills are not quite there yet. Abused by people who know the game well to just autopilot loop to loop without having to think. Limits skill progression.
Badly, badly needs a change to be less autopilot while still being a good tool for baby Survivors to learn from.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795949#Comment_3795949
There are 2 different lobbies before entering a match. The first one is private, SWF only. Then, once everyone there is ready, the game looks for a public lobby with a killer and any other survivors needed to fill out the match.
The original poster is specifically talking about the first private lobby and excluding the second public lobby. Dodging is not a possible problem in the private SWF lobby. There's every reason to hide prestige in the public lobby but no reason to hide it in the private SWF-only lobby. Friends like to show off and compare progress when hanging out, it makes sense to allow it privately amongst friends.
The Devs have stated they can't do this - showing Prestige is an on or off switch, it's a boolean variable. It shows for everyone in the lobby, or nobody in the lobby. Any lobby.
Besides your SWF can see it at the end. Zero issue to be had.
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I think it might be intentional to prevent just always getting a guaranteed best toolbox, which is probably smart. Commodious is hands down the strongest toolbox in the game and in fact, maybe a bit overpowered sometimes. BHVR is probably trying to subtly limit free genrush.
These are similar to other subtle limitations that have been imposed on Killers and Killer perks before. BHVR will then deny these limitations exist. It happens when they feel one side is too strong. It was Killers before, now it's Survivors… who they have been trying to limit since 6.1 to balance the game. It just feels weird because for so long, Survivors have been stronger than this. They're fixing that, so people see it as unlucky or wrong. But nah, this is just how BHVR balances. Making things mediocre and putting limits on them.
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I'm hearing Dracula wolf noises when switching between Vamp and Bat too.
The sound is definitely broken and I mentioned this in a post before. Believe the forums told me it wasn't happening then, too… Everyone believes me now though. Go figure.
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It's not really Killers that are the issue, or the Kill versus Escape rates. No.
It's just the same thing Survivors have told Killers for years now rehashed and the same things Devs did to Killers back then rehashed - stop playing in a way where you HAVE to win to have fun, these nerfs are actually buffs, see?. The Devs are clearly, CLEARLY trying to take this game in a more casual direction, everything screams it. The game is not meant to be competitive just because the player base is and because there is a versus element, it's meant as a casual versus game.
Wanting to win a bunch is by definition, not casual. If your mindset as either role is to win a bunch or you feel like you HAVE to win to have fun at the role, your mindset is way too sweaty. So yes, this horror game is 100% asking Survivors to be okay with, and up to the challenge of, trying to do their best against a foe they can't beat. The game for Survivor isn't meant to be about winning, it's meant to be about TRYING.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795918#Comment_3795918
If someone wants to tell me 90%+ of their games on some killer is swf seal teams, yes.
The Us vs. Them here isn't necessary.
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@NerfDHalready said:
survivor bonus became more common after 2v8 event, killer bonus lasts so short if it ever shifts to killer that day.
Probably because a lot of Survivors who tried Killer there stuck around and want to play Killer now… because it's frankly always been the more fun role.
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Same here, same error, same server kicks. >:(
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@Skithiryx said:
Everyone wants a chance to escape. Considering how many times I've had a killer down the other survivor and start searching for me instead of getting the kill and having a chance to get out. I don't think you understand how annoying that is for survivors. If you're going to complain about how annoying it is to hold the game hostage trying to get out, it's just as bad that people will down a survivor and force them to bleed out because they couldn't stand the idea of only getting a 3 k.
That balance is on both sides. I shouldn't be forced to sit there and wait to bleed out so you can get your kills. It's obnoxious and has made me want to rage quit more than anything else. Sure, it's a "legitimate strategy" but it's mind numbing and excessively annoying.
And as a person who does gen jockey every game, I put in the effort. And getting downed and left to bleed out by a killer being greedy is getting old. Just get the sacrifice and find the hatch. Your point is only good/fair if killers stop forcing the bleed out. You don't want them to do nothing but hide while you run in circles, and they dont want to be downed and left to die for your ego.
II'm so tired of seeing this mindset with no thought on why they do it. If they shortened bleed out for a survivor at just 2 left then it wouldn't be such a crap take. But if they ever did update that you want, the games gonna have less survivors. This isn't an issue of get good, it's an issue of don't be a dick. If it's 2 survivors and 3 gens to go, they know better. There's no way 2 survivors get 3 gens done. Or even 2.
So seriously. Try playing a survivor long enough to get put in that shituation. You won't be any better than the people you're complaining about. You can say you are/would be. But there's a reason you know it's an issue that the player base won't fix. And if the devs try to force the issue there will be less survivors. Otherwise, be a better killer who actually sacrifices the 3rd survivor. Because if you won't do that then you're being hypocritical.
This whole thing is why I just… never bother trying to find the last guy unless they a) are caught when I go looking for hatch, b) I find Hatch first (sometimes not even then), c) they really are that toxic and deserve the bleedout (very rare).
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The game IS in the most balanced state it's ever been in. That's not just Killer Mains telling you that, that's everyone and their mom telling you that.. because it's the truth.