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This is a great thing, thank you for adding it.
I would like to recommend only a very small cooldown if any first. This is because in scenarios like a hooked survivor needing to give varied comms when a killer is leaving and coming back to hook, or someone on a gen has a killer coming near and leaving it, that's something teammates would need to specifically know to not get baited by, say, that survivor entering chase on the hud. So if there's a cooldown, then you'd either need a chat command for this type of interaction in particular, or you'd need the cooldown to be shorter or non existent.
It's fine if the communications get spammed because if someone doesn't like it they can just mute the offender or the system in general.
It might be a good idea long term to change how large this message is depending on whether a survivor is in chase or not. In chase, it is less likely that the hud will be checked but they might want good information like which generator is being worked on so they don't go there, or where to take the chase generally. I imagine that type of specificity isn't in the launch wheel, but eventually that would be something nice for some serious players to have. -
This realm sorely needed an update both in tiles and pallets and this change was great for that! Maps definitely feel better now.
However, many of the fillers are quite short still. Having a bit more variety with them would be great. -
As many have already said, this update made too many strong pallets with little diversity in too many places which makes gameplay too easy for survivor. Diversifying pallets here would be great.
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Temple of Purgation feels better now, with maybe some dead zones spawning sometimes or in parts but less frequently. Mothers Dwelling weakened the pallets by too much, with them mostly being extremely short and easily outplayable for the killer. It would be great to at least diversify pallet length on this map.
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On shattered square this update is a lot better! Pallet length is maybe a tad short but overall it's just so nice to not have so many dead zones so thank you for that.
On forgotten ruins, there are often still quite a number of short pallets and some dead zones I still notice back behind main. Strengthening that area more would be nice, as well as the castle area which often doesn't have many resources at all. -
This realm did NOT need to be changed! It was so perfect as it was outside of needing less so called "god rocks" spawned(god rocks could be played around with good killer movement and ping often made them unsafe too). Now every filler pallet is extremely weak and discourages killers using their powers in favor of M1'ing, which makes gameplay very boring on both sides. Pallet length needs to be buffed, even if you don't want to have the existence of "god rock" anymore.
This realm went from my most favorite to very underwhelming. Please prioritize this if you can! -
This map is MUCH nicer now in terms of pallets. There are still weak spots behind the houses opposite of main building that maybe could stand a slightly better spawn or two, but overall it's much better. Thank you for the update here!
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This realm was already in a pretty good place prior to the update, although shrinking the pallet loops a bit was a good call.
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This realm update was absolutely a wonderful step in the right direction! Pale Rose in particular felt like one massive deadzone so it felt nice to have more resources. Even some of the unnecessarily long filler pallets on both swamp maps got shortened which is good.
I don't fully understand the desire to put pallets on the edgemap and make them so unsafe though. It discourages killers using their powers and playing their M1, making them samey. Additionally, they're very easy to zone break(killer kicks it while toward center of the map) and then lands a free hit. It might be better to put more pallets toward the middle to allow for more interesting gameplay for both sides, but overall it's a good update here. -
This realm did not need to be changed outside of removing some dead zones on wreckers yard. It had fairly balanced pallets and pallet distributions, including already using edgemap pallets.
Currently, there is a wider than normal variety in terms of RNG on this realm. You may see pallets everywhere, or still see several dead zones. Additionally, filler pallets were already a fine length previously and have been increased in size and generally made more plentiful. This leads to gameplay that favors survivors too much and simply reducing dead zones and making the pallets similar in length to before(like the red truck filler) would be great. -
Previously, there were so many dead zones especially on sanctum of wrath. It's been wonderful to play on that map in particular and feel like there's more of a chance for survivor!
Family Residence was fine before and it has been weakened now with quite weak pallets. It would be great to at least diversify them a bit more. -
DH nerf was not called for at all. Has a great deal of counterplay and ping destroys it. Very healthy perk and it was interactive for both sides which is always welcome.
Totally agree with you OP, and anyone saying DH denies a hit you can say the exact same thing for most other exhaustions, or they give you distance equivalent to a hit but without taking one.
They won't put it back though, good luck with this fight. -
@Ohyakno said:
Pointless. For killers props would only be given after letting survivors escape. For survivors it would just be for trading hooks at endgame.
Not true in my case, I give props to killers who are good sports or play well in chases. I'm sure I'm not the only one who does similar things, and more would do so too if such a system change happened.
For other survivors I do think endgame altruism is part of it for me but it can also be if someone was nice in endgame chat and/or played well in the game or got a nice flashlight save or something like that.
I only started doing this in the past year or so when the system started getting discussed more, but it's fun to do and feels nice to say something good about someone. I'd love for this system to be pushed more in some way. -
Neat post OP. I do think there are some unhealthy ways to egregiously get gens done quickly with commodious toolboxes and hyperfocus stakeout etc, but overall I agree that generators have been slowed a great deal now especially with slowdown perks and oppressive killer powers and weak maps.
Tunneling feels kind of separate to me, but yeah it would be nice to reward the killer for spreading hooks more without forcing hook trades or something like that. -
Scamper was problematic but slice n dice is way worse so I'd be down for a revert. I think he needs to be reworked because a curving power is just always going to be pretty oppressive.
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That's an interesting perspective. I wonder if having it be an unlockable option would be useful then.
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Please do not buff this killer he is already insane in chase. If you do buff him, then remove some chase aspect and give him something else.
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I'm not crazy about the timer increase, but since BHVR wants to keep buffing killer powers and nerfing maps this is their thing to give survivors vs killers who wish to play around the hook more. I do wish this was reverted and things were done differently though.
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@turksmall236 said:
Can we have basekit Kindred without the killer aura? The perk Kindred itself would still include the killer aura. Also expand the survivor HUD to include healing, chest opening, totem cleansing/blessing, and opening exit gates progress, that yellow circle only works for repairing generators and recovering in the dying state at the moment
I agree with you and also think bond needs to be basekit. It's the same idea as making shadowborn basekit on killer: giving information to allow the role to function properly. The nice thing is this also helps to bridge the gap between solo and SWF so it's a healthy change.
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It seems like if it activates it's usually giving pretty good value, but bumping it up to like 80ish wouldn't be the worst thing either. The main concern with the perk is how much you can hook late to just insta-wipe the lobby. Starting slower and raising the numbers over time is also an option to ensure that there aren't any issues.
It's a fun perk and I wouldn't mind it being buffed but I wouldn't want it to be common enough to where survivors are discouraged from endgame altruism either. -
@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808864#Comment_3808864
I still believe the moment any change like that happens and queue times increase the outcry will force them to roll it back. The complaints about queues during the 2v8 were loud and likely to lead to some kind of change there.
I guess I kinda think 2 things about this:
1. If people are complaining about matchmaking now, would there be less complaints overall if queues were longer, or the same?
2. Maybe there is some ratio of wait times + matchmaking balance that can be more satisfying than current. I personally would wait longer for better matches now that I've experienced current matchmaking, but some people just prefer faster speeds. Maybe there is some slight/moderate tweaking to be done to make it average for everyone instead of just really good one way. -
@JPLongstreet said:
Here's the problem:
Each and every time this community gets asked whether they want faster queues or quality matchmaking, the resounding answer is always for faster queues.
Something like two years back they messed around with much stricter matchmaking, and the result was longer queues plus complaints from burnout from sweats going up constantly against sweats from the vets and content creators.
So we face the dilemma of not wanting to wait, but not wanting to get everlasting sweaty trials either.
Imo the best way to reinforce & strengthen the matchmaking is to allow it to fully function. We'd have to limit or eliminate dodging for that to happen. Something like locked lobbies or no lobbies at all might do it, but that's quite extreme.
There is no easy answer here.
I agree that that test didn't work out, but that doesn't mean you need to go the other way entirely. You can just make it stricter than now without being perfectly strict like before. I think more people would be happy with a solution like that.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3804842#Comment_3804842
I would rather have that ^, and then have full games than i would have games with people constantly DCing or giving up. they ruin the game for 4 other players every time they do that.
It may also cause bhvr to reverse the kill rate decisions they have been making too.
But yeah I agree it'd be nice if it stopped happening and longer queues for better matchmaking etc but it may also have other knock-on effects. -
Dracula is very strong.
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I like that they're doing new game modes, and I'm happy that 2v8 was so popular. I prefer the base game personally, but any win for DBD is a win for all DBD players imo.
I feel like matchmaking has changed in some strange way recently, it may be causing some extra issues.
It's a fun game, but I wish the game was more about looping like it used to be. That's why I play M1 trapper more now. I get to have fun chases like I want and the survivors usually have a fun game too. I'm surprised at how often I'm 3 and 4king though. -
Chucky isn't remotely healthy but they won't change him until there's a higher kill rate.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3804230#Comment_3804230
Well let them be upset. Let them drop the game and never return for all I care. You cannot appease these people. They will always find something to rage quit over.
Sure, if you don't mind 2v8 queue times for killer or longer to return that sounds like a deal worth taking.
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Punishing survivors who are already upset won't fix the base issue.
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Thanks for the info. Explains a lot.
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Map offerings aren't great for the game. I don't really know who is truly enjoying them besides a few people who do achievements or just like an aesthetic of a map.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3802637#Comment_3802637
To be fair, when we did polls on these maps several months back, most voted in favor the those maps are in fact survivor sided.
Voting based on population of this forum is a guaranteed outcome.
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Apparently it's only supposed to work with regular pallet kicks and not M2s. Saw a BHVR rep confirm it earlier today.
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Agree agree agree
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Getting bullied on either side can be pretty tough, but hopefully this can be a cause to either suggest changes in matchmaking if you want to suggest changes, or to learn on an individual level.
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Windows is fine. It can even create bad habits among players by not teaching them to maximize use of resources and it doesn't teach them how to connect anything or how to loop a structure properly. It doesn't buff survivor stats and doesn't buff SWF.
For the person who brought up Wraith, either play hit and run or use shadow dance. There are options for pretty much every killer to play vs this perk. Every person running windows means they are less likely to be running DS UB etc -
@pandorayr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799848#Comment_3799848
I think is a annoying perk and gives too much information without doing absolutely anything.
You also want to nerf corrupt and deadlock too then right? You get value and information for doing nothing. They are also some of the highest-picked perks.
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@TheSingleQuentinMain said:
I mean no disrespect, these are just my ramblings on the upcoming patch. I'm speaking as a killer main who plays a good amount of survivor, probably fifty-fifty in terms of time spent.
Perk Reworks
Nice job adding uses to under used perks like Zanshin Tactics and Teamwork power of two. There's also perks like Genetic Limits which frankly sucked before the update, and that was perfectly fine. As a killer main, I complain and moan about exhaustion perks every time I see them (only to 100% use them myself as survivor), but using perks to counter perks is a sucky concept and makes it feel like perks are the middle man for fun in this game, rather than any fun. The rework to it would make it so exhaustion is applied when a survivor loses a health state. This is kind of a "Screw you" to Overcome, to a lesser extent Dead Hard, and Iron Will. Meanwhile, the probably strongest exhaustion perk, Sprint Burst is still good cause it will always give you map mobility at least, and it probably be unaffected by this. I kind of was okay with this perk never being used because the concept is bad, but now it means even more reason to use sprint burst instead of the others. Other people seem to like the change though, so you probably made the right call Behavior and I'm just rambling out my butt.
Than there's distortion. You have finally fixed the Passive playstyle aspect of this perk, making it so a perk that helps you hide doesn't let you stay out of chase all game whilst your teammates all die. However, to me this has the same problem as Genetic Limits, a perk that's sole purpose is to counter other perks. It might be one thing if the perk just stopped the killers uses of an aura reading, but it also punishes the killer by taking away scratch marks. Why did you give me aura reading perks if you were just going to punish me for using them? Again, people seem happy with this change, so I'm probably still just rambling out my butt.
PLEASE HEED THIS WARNING
Machine Learning is one of my favorite perks as killer, but god must it suck to fight. It is 10% haste for 60 seconds. That's not something that should be easy to unlock, but I rarely found uses pre buff because I couldn't find people in 30 seconds, or if I did, I finished chase, hooked them and left. Now, I can get serious use from this perk, but also, 10% haste on any killer is pretty insane, and now they're going to buff it to be easier use. This is an almost entirely unrelated tangent, but Perks should not be strong than killers. This perk is a lot of effort for something people use in YouTube build videos, and that's fine. It also kind of has some loose counter play where if you know the killer is Running Machine Learning, you can finish a generator you think is unfinished. However, this perk should never be good. It is meant for goofy builds, and feeling like your smart as killer because you made survivors finish your specific generator, and get rewarded with it's effects. I'm saying I don't want the buff, pls.
Killer Reworks:
Skull Merchant-
I hate SM, but also this just gutting her. When they reworked the Knight, they made it so he couldn't instantly plop guards down in a loop to remove all your options, but in exchange they buffed his ability to send guard's out into the distance for mind games. In other words, to me personally, they made him more fun to play as and against. With the Skull Merchant rework, they've nerfed her, but they haven't given her anything to work with now, other than limiting the visibility of Drone scan lines, which sounds incredibly frustrating to fight if I'm being honest. Again, I hate her, but just making it so she sucks to play isn't really a solution to her.
Hill Billy-
Fine. Hill Billy was to good or whatever. I know he synergizes with a bunch of meta perks, but truth be told I think that's a problem with the Perks and not the killer. Killers should be stronger than perks because they are the thing that is built with counterplay, whilst perks are just meant to strengthen the respective sides. To be Honest, I kind of wish they would go back through all the killers and for a lack of better word, raise their skill ceiling with buffs, as long as they could be countered. If overdrive is to strong to be countered, fine, rework it. But Billy being an S-tier is kind of like, "Oh no! One of the most fun killers to fight is super good! This might mean we see less Nurse, Blight, and Spirit."
I like a lot of this.
I guess Genetic limits won't fully counter DH if you just stay injured LOL, and maybe the meta ends up having to make a choice between healing or not as a survivor if this perk becomes common enough. Although I do agree more realistically it probably just decreases how much DH/IW is run which may in turn decrease GL itself.
To answer your distortion question as best as I could think: it's so people can still use a stealth playstyle. With this being nerfed as much as it is, the idea is probably to make constant stealth less viable. The scratch mark thing would likely only matter in chase unless there is some extra information being lost across the map, but I think many distortion players don't run in the open too much anyway. I can definitely agree about perks countering one another though. It does feel strange, but it's also probably nice to be able to have counterplay vs something you don't enjoy playing against. That's usually how I think of perks anyway: a way to solve common problems.
10000% on machine learning, it getting buffed is crazy. MFT haste wasn't good, and absolutely neither is this. Why more haste is coming into the game I don't know.
Billy doesn't have counterplay in overdrive and the way to properly play him atm is just farm overdrive and eat pallets and down people quickly. He needs to be made fun for both sides, because just predropping as a survivor or just zoning and eating pallets and backrevving as billy is not too interesting. Lots of possible ways to solve it, but these changes are not enough to get there.
Same goes for the twins changes. -
@Valimure said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799432#Comment_3799432
Again, doesn't matter what direction you face. Flashbangs work next to you and can even be dropped "on you."
Background player is also a thing.
It does matter which direction you face provided you can face away from them and they can't drop the flashbang early enough. They have to drop it early in the pickup animation, which means even with perks such as background player they will need to be fairly close.
I do agree BGP still isn't the healthiest perk, but with the nerf they have to get a lot closer, making it much riskier for themselves to position for a flashbang save. -
@Valimure said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799423#Comment_3799423
No, because while I chase the one person to injure them the other is healing the person I downed and now I'm back to square one.
Okay so if you can't get a quick hit and they keep distance, then you can pick up facing a direction they both can't cover since they will be farther away right? Once you know where everyone is it's a lot easier to play around them.
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@Valimure said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799385#Comment_3799385
In a typical SWF scenario there's one gen jockey and the other three are there specifically to waste the killer's time, so it's not usually just one person you need to worry about.
You can't "clear one direction." The point is that it doesn't matter if you face a wall or pick someone up out of a locker… you can still be flashbanged, so the only two options available are either bring Lightborn every match or slug everyone (which, you'll notice, Unbreakable is very popular right now for this very reason.)
Okay so in that scenario, wouldn't it make sense to take LOTS of time to clear the area like suggested before then? Only one person is doing gens so you have lots of time. You could even likely get injuries then. It could even snowball some.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799357#Comment_3799357
Ah yes. Painstakingly searching the entire area while they crawl under a pallet. Seems like good counterplay when for every other blind good positioning is rewarded.
Good positioning? If the survivor died against a wall it meant they had poor positioning or baited you to pick up for the flashbang. Positioning is relative in this case.
You don't usually have to search an entire area either. If you chased into an area and looped it you wouldn't have to look around the loop for example. You can also simply clear one direction to look when you pick up as opposed to all areas. Consider also that if you do this successfully you have gained a ton of time over survivors, so the reward is often worth it too. -
Isn't the counterplay to flashbangs when looking against the wall to simply find the saver or scan the area where they could come from? That seems reasonable to me. Locker flashbangs don't have counterplay because two people could jump into a locker then guaranteed get a save because you can't change your direction or anything. So those need to go for sure.
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Why would the community be worse now? Is the DC penalty change part of this? We know people in ~2018ish could still be heated on the internet.
Anyway, as long as you are okay with longer killer queues it seems you have no issue with that decision which is interesting. I wonder if there is a certain queue length that makes tradeoffs like this worth it or not.
Those give up suggestions seem quite lenient. It wouldn't allow people to go past already-lost games much at all so it seems like it would be quite ineffective for the time required to create it. I was thinking more of something like 3 hooks/1 kill with 5 gens left, or 0-1 hook with 1 gen left or something like that. -
@VomitMommy said:
I would be fine with 1, simply except you have perk for it.
2. Hell no, you would need to disable it for both sides and that can't end well. DBD would become queue simulator.
3. Survivors DC for ANY reason. They do it in highly questionable situations (about to die in 5 seconds later). You can't fix that.
4. Most likely outcome
I would just increase penalty instead. If you don't want to play, then don't play at all.
Remove self-unhooking unless you have got perk for it and if survivor ignores two skill checks in second phase they get replaced by a bot.
Implement some reasonable feature for both sides, so they are free to give up in hopeless situation. (Combination of gens, hooks, dead survivors, survivors on ground, timer) Survivor gets replaced by a bot and game ends for now if killer gives up.(Game ends when all survivors become bots)
There used to be no DC penalty in the past and there wasn't any major abuse of the system like you would expect. So either this helped the community regulate itself as I have seen some suggest, or somehow this wouldn't work today which is an odd thing to say without supporting evidence. At first it would probably be a lot though, there's no doubt about that.
Increasing the penalty is pretty similar to just making option 1 a thing. I guess you could also put both options together. You would probably need to triple down and begin reporting+banning people for not playing then, because otherwise I'm not sure if this would change much. Seems quite aggressive don't you think?
I'm down to have a team decide to forfeit the match as an alternative mechanic, and I guess making it so both sides could do it at a certain point is an interesting idea. I'm curious what that would look like. A simple number like 3-4ish minutes in is probably an okay starting point to keep it simple, but I do wonder if some combination of hooks and gens might be better. -
@Blazin973 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793570#Comment_3793570
yeah cause its very fair for someone who is inexperienced to be matched with p100's and get "bullied" which makes some people not even wanna touch the game again cause some survivors are just sick in the head the way they play cause they've been playing since release and have 5k+ hours
The problem in this case is with the matchmaking system, not prestiges. I agree that what you're describing isn't right but dodging is only a bandaid solution.
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@Langweilig said:
It is unnecessary in most cases.
Sadako for example with ring drawing, where it was completely unnecessary and it would have been a nice alternative to the other addons then, but no you nerfed it for no reason. I see this reoccuring everytime you make basekit changes and in some cases it is necessary to nerf them, but in most cases you should just leave them like they were like you did with bloody fingernails on Sadako (which is without a doubt her best addon now)
They usually nerf addons when making addons basekit because they are incorporating the most used addons into the basekit. They are hoping to encourage addon variety and make the basekit fine afterward. If you just leave the old values, then it means killers could just continue to double down on these best addons and boost their performance further.
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@ays12151 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795720#Comment_3795720
This acceleration was a thing in patches 4.1.0 - 4.3.0 and it wasn't a problem at all. My posts fixed problem with Carburetor Tuning Guide where the current code just destroyed this Add-On, because it counted 60% from the whole Chainsaw Sweep - 7.5 seconds, because with this Add-On you have like one big charge (60% * 7.5 seconds = 4.5 s acceleration time).
He would be strong Killer in chase that still chase many ways to counterplay. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't become boring Killer to play against like Xeno & Chucky.
His old acceleration wasn't an issue before because he was just far slower right? I don't know for sure how'd I'd feel about these changes without seeing them, but this argument I don't think makes sense.
Do you think it might be better to give Bubba some mobility mode instead of just buffing his chase further? I don't really want another oppressive killer in chase, but allowing Bubba to get around might actually help him create and make more use of dead zones he can easily create. -
Alberto is right about both of his points, but you can also just use your eyes to see pallets half the time. With eruption you didn't know exactly when the chase would end though so it's a pretty unequal comparison imo.
I don't know if I'd want windows basekit, or if it was made basekit I'd like a way to turn it off or reduce how vibrant it is or something. Too much stuff on my screen when I rarely use it LOL -
@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795912#Comment_3795912
When there's 1v4 people complain relentlessly. Can't go do pinhead's box. Can't turn off sadako TVs. Hit and run is "boring". Anything that applies pressure to the team gets overwhelmingly negative feedback. So what do they have left? They made a lady that does traps and people hate her. They made a dude with minions and people hate him. There's only so many times you can make a killer that throws themselves or something at survivors to damage them. So what exactly do you expect them to do?
People complain about legion and he's fine. I can only speak for myself and the things I see from other survivors around me, but the chase aspect is what initially drew us to the game and it is being taken away every patch.
There will be complaints about everything, but as long as this particular route is what is being taken to "balance" the game, then people like me and OP will not find it interesting or fun.
If your last question isn't rhetorical, then for killers(since I kinda doubt you care what I have to say about survivor) they need to nerf the last few busted maps, remove syringe styptic bnp, rework toolboxes and not allow blood amber to be a thing(or make it shorter or like OoO I guess). They can also put the hook state timer back to 60 seconds, and once that is done we can start looking at buffing weaker killers. Ideally giving weaker killers a bit of information and a bit more mobility is better than just letting them win chases freely, but how this is implemented will depend on the killer and the constraints of things like budgets or legal agreements or community engagement. -
@Rokku_Rorru said:
What are peoples current opinion on Windows of Opportunnity? I think it's high usage is a sign it's not healthy right now for the game, there are a lot of long wall hold W windows, you switch target to go pressure elsewhere but the next person has it too.
Run blindness would be an option but its not for all killers, we only have third seal now that ultimate weapon is gone.I think the perk is fine. It doesn't actually buff survivors in any way, and the better the player is the less they need the perk. It can help newer players who don't know maps fine resources, and it can help solo players know where to run because they don't know what their teammates dropped. If someone is simply running to the bright color and holding W then you can counter that by not mindgaming and you'll catch up quickly even as a basic M1 killer.
It is very commonly run but I think that's okay. If you as killer are trying to mainly chase someone without awareness of where loops are then I would encourage a shift in that thinking.