Gandor
Gandor
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544786#Comment_3544786
His naturally big TR makes it a viable tool imo.
Your point is about how easy it is to apply the perk. What @DaddyMyers_Mori hinted at is, how brutal strength it provides when u use it WHILE you already have power. It's quite easy to end the game from there. Especially because you have normal TR + insane speed. Try it out and then come back if wesker's "more reliable way" to apply it can be converted to this many kills as is possible with Oni.
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Nah. The killer is actually strong in good hands. Oppressively so. It's just that there are barely any singularities, that can play him - because he's super tough to play well - so most singularities really don't have a good time. The thing the killer needs are some things that would make him (much) easier to play, but not to make him necessarily stronger.
Like all I meet are 2 types of singularities - and for both types there's a stomp in the game. The one that gets stomped is much more common, but then there are those that just delete you from game and you feel helpless. And there's no in-between
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I agree that current stats are just outright stupid bad. But beware of stacking TR reduction perks - M&A + new TR reducing perk could create situations where you die before you hear, that you are in danger. That's not exactly cool thing. The perk needs absolutely new effect (because even removal of TR without any tokens while in chase does something 1 in 100 games and even that something is basically nothing).
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@Felgoose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544753#Comment_3544753
What I'm reading is that a full hiding build only takes 2 perk slots. Full gen rush build takes at least 3 +/- item. Full running build is at least 3, usually 4. Escaping the hatch build takes 2 or 3 slots +/- item. Sabo build takes 1-3 perks + item. Being able to just not be found is a huge deal. Hiding perks ARE 'general gameplay' perks for those that play that way.
Then you are reading it wrong. 2 perk slots just to be able to play the game. Then you can start to build your stealth build (iron will, urban evasion, fixated, dance with me, overcome, lucky break, ...)
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I already use bg player and for me personally, the perk did not even need any buff. But the thing is, that I am one of few people playing sabotages (and my issue is not with access to hooks, but with hook density - which is getting worse - thanks devs for new rancid map).
For flashlight/flashbang users, the buff is 100% fully meaningless (same as furtive chase buff). So yes, different exhaustion CD or higher speed or something like that would be genarally much more impactful.
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So soloQ will get another bit of information any SWF already had? I consider that good news. Let's see the actual implementation, it could still be problematic (depending on numbers and small details), but fingers crossed
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543338#Comment_3543338
I know how to play Myer's, more than enough years splaying him under my belt, what I'm saying is its not as bad as people make out.
Players don't know how to break line of sight effectively and then get caught off guard by the mori that's about it.
I can agree with that provided you talk about judiths. But not piece. There's no counter to that without luck/prior knowledge (distortion on obsession and basically try to win without killer ever finding obsession, or obsession never running when found = it's possibly better to give hook state + full stalk then giving tokens). Stalking is way too easy when you are 130% and there is no LoS blocking if killer can catch up to you in 3s.
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nah. Oni in ability. Wesker does not come close
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544712#Comment_3544712
I'm not sure if you've ever played survivor before but its not exactly easy to escape a killer right off the hook on most maps. They're going to catch you whether it takes 10 seconds or a few more. Tunneling completely ruins the survivor experience in this game. You seem to have an unreasonable expectation for survivors to be able to evade killers in even the most inconvenient situations. In my experience most survivor players can't do this and neither should they be expected to. It is unfair to lay the blame on them when there is very little a survivor can do to avoid being tunneled. We need more than perks and basekit abilities to deal with this.
One simple way they could do it is to have the killer's movement speed slowed if they are in chase of an unhooked survivor. If they know chasing the unhooked survivor will just slow them down, I believe most killers would likely not do this. Maybe have it not work once the exit gates are powered, but before that more needs to be done to keep the killer away from hooked survivors and more time traversing the map looking for others.
I am all for solving tunneling (hard problem IMO to fix it in fair way). But this is just a bad idea. Getting into chase with unhooked person is very easy - especially if he wants to bodyblock. That means the mechanics would be abused too much, or the slowdown would be too inconsequential. There needs to be different kind of solution
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@Felgoose said:
If it was actually OP, it would show up that way in the stats. Survivors would more rarely escape against killers using the perk compared to those using other perks. The perk is not OP. If anything, it's strong against bully squads, which is probably who most of those begging for a nerf are.
The problem with this argument is - that it's not OP for whole population of survivors. Some of us absolutely don't care if you can find us or not (like me). But for others - you are basically making the game unplayable.
It's the same thing as if survivor had a perk that would allow you to remove lockers... Most killers would absolutely not care one bit about that one. But then huntress, dredge and trickster mains will scream their lungs out and someone would just say - nah. The perk is OK. It's not OP and does not show up in statistics that much so it must be fine. (I am illustrating the point - sure enough deleting lockers is more extreme version, but some survivors play this game via hide & seek because they can't chase - for those survivors, distortion was a must-have perk. Now they are forced to endure also calm spirit with it's debuff and only 2 perk slots left for general gameplay).
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/391728/please-fix-core-issues-with-the-game
The only thing BHVR can do about it is try to improve their lag compensation on the server, but if your lag is high whatever they do you would still have those problems.
But she specifically wrote, her ping is stable 20-40ms. But this game just favors laggy killers. That's bad design. All the other games give you disadvantage (or at least try to be neutral) if you have high ping. That's not true for DBD. Here, having large ping helps you tremendously - as you see survivors, that are still not moving (because they have shorter reaction time thanks to killer's ping not arriving to survivor to see where killer goes + killer sees survivors standing on a spot for longer time because it takes longer for updated position of survivor to arrive to his client - overall 2x the bonus that help just killer).
TBF - I am talking about latency and not frame drops (that can be bad for killer too - and it does not matter if drops are on survivor or killer - a killer will still see teleporting survivor regardless).
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@Darky77 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544456#Comment_3544456
Yeah this is the kind of response I was expecting. Actions that do literally nothing to further the game and serve literally no purpose but trying to antagonize and aggitate the other side is definitely NOT the definition of toxic. At all.
But yes, I do concede that having blinds be paid only would be a bad move. I didn't think of that. But I will say flashbangs feel more earned, as someone else pointed out. They function better for the game's current state.
I'm not getting into the debate of toxicity and the response to it here, that's a pointless venture, but I will state that my point isn't that flashlights are annoying, its the fact that they literally only exist to be a nuisance and don't really benefit those that don't use it that way. not often at least. They're tools that primarily are only used to further a try-hard squad's ability to bully the killer into an unwinnable match and/or push them into a high stress match. They just aren't good for the health of the game, no matter how you look at it.
Yes, tunneling needs more preventatives, but do survivors really need 15 different ways to invalidate a killer's hard work? If you spend your time on a chase and finally manage to get a down, is it really fair to have 15 different ways to have that pressure instantly revoked? It's a tough topic, I know, but try to understand what I'm actually saying instead of just opening the "toxicity is fine" survivor privilege book.
I actually love going against "bully squads". But the difference between bully squad and a baby survivors that can't finish single gen before they get totally destroyed on 5 gens is.... Killer's skill level (in comparison to survivors). Like don't get me wrong. I have had games where no matter what I did, I just couldn't hook anyone. Then they started to tbag. And it felt horrible. But then I learned.
And what happens now (usually, not always) is either 4K, or survivors giving up (because they can't really bully), or actually fun back & forth. Actually I enjoy these matches WAY more then going against genrush squad. With genrush the problem is, that you don't actually get to chase. You will be led to those few pallets that can't be outplayed and those that HAVE to be broken. And by the time you do that, chances are the game is over (provided they don't do some bad mistake or you didn't outplay someone). Contrary to that - flashlight squad will give you ample time to chase and destroy strongest pallets (and play around those others). With a bit of game sense, they will not get many saves (yes they can get a save or two, but not a lot - you need to feel where survivors are hiding and what is far enough to pick up even if you face survivor and so on).
The point is - it's toxic to you only because you can't play around it. It's the same way as people calling wraith toxic when he is camping (it's boring, not fun, lame, but absolutely not toxic).
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1, flashlights are the sole reason some people play this game. It's much more interactive, then sitting on gen whole game. It's already noticeable on queue times.
2, flashlights are one of few defenses against tunneling. If killer decides to tunnel someone out, there are basically 4 things that can possibly be done to prevent that a, flashlights/flashbang (require item) - the best solution considering chain blinds exists (killer can fully loose survivor altogether) b, sabotage (require item or perk) c, bodyblock (ineffective - it only postpones down a little and costs you repair time of 1-2 survivors that will need to heal) d, buckle up for the people combo (requires 2 perks, good positioning, no body blocks from killer and not being found + only postpones things and risks (even though it's not huge risk) 2 people on the ground)
3, as mentioned in first point - flashlights promote interactions with killer. The alternative is to genrush and there already are people here complaining about length of matches as flashlights are not in game.
4, removing base mechanics dumbs down this game. If the cycle like this continues (yes continues - there are already quite a number of mechanics gone from game - like lightburning or survivor hiding as viable strategy (ehm ultimate weapon and nowhere to hide are best examples why hiding is no longer viable game strat)), the game will have specifically 1 way to be played making it that much more boring
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543942#Comment_3543942
- someone points out how factually unbelievably hard Singularity is to play on lerys.
- viable suggestions and ideas are posted to make the game less *miserable* and remove auto-loss via map RNG
- someone points out that GOJ is undeniably busted beyond belief and extremely safe for survivors and needs a rework
Then there's you... coming up with a "killers dont deserve to play on fair maps" hottake.
Is it your day job to be unbelievably survivor biased? You can't be out here saying that with a straight face, i refuse to believe that.
Ah. Again you. I said something which does not fit into your world view so you need to twist it somehow AGAIN. I reacted specifically to some specific comment. I even agree that singu on lery's is absolutely horrible to play on (same as playing against nurse on midwitch btw).
My comment was specifically aimed at someone that said "NOBODY" should play on map X Y Z. I said that the same thing applies to the other side. Yet you had to see it in some different way. Go figures.
But why am I even surprised if 250ms is PLENTY of time to react if it's for survivors, but 400ms is absolutely not enough at the same time...
@thisislastyearsmodel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543942#Comment_3543942
I agree that Midwich is an equally problematic map. It reminds me very much of the original iteration of The Game with how confusing it is to navigate — sometimes you can spawn in and not even know if you're top or bottom floor.
The rest? Nah. Saloon is very easy to run if you know how, and the Autohaven maps have a nice spread of pallets throughout the middle with chainable tiles. It's not nearly as bad as some of the Macmillan maps (Suffo Pit, in particular) but it's not too bad against most killers.
Saloon - is fine to play until killer decides to 3gen whole game. Where there are very good odds he will just win. Especially (but not limited to) if you are soloQ. What does it matter that main is strong if killer never goes near it (because he doesn't have to)? Same thing for azarov's.
Wretched shop is a little different. That map has just very low density of loops and even those loops that actually are there are mostly weak - but it's at least somewhat large one (but RIP if you get blight).
Also you skipped Rancid. It's very empty now, is tiny and boy... Did you see the hooks on this map?
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@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543975#Comment_3543975
Pretty much.
But imo Hex perks are too vulnerable to rng. I don't know if you saw it, but a while ago Otz brought 3 Hex perks and lost all of them not even 2 minutes in since the Survivors basically spawned on them XD (theres a youtube video of it).
Boons's weakness (now) is how situational they are and how only SWF teams can truly get consistent value.
agreed. I myself had a proposition to buff most of the hexes (basically all hexes that spawn at the start of the match) - it looked a bit like @Akumakaji 's post, but with "worse" numbers. Similarly - now that CoH is nerfed, I would buff their range to their release version.
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@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543955#Comment_3543955
I mean, now boons are mostly useless (although they can offer surprising value for SWF teams and in multi-floor maps, even nowadays when I SWF with my friends we regularly get good value from Exponential or sometimes Shadow Step, COH is only ever used if we bring specific map offerings) since the COH gutting but before they were essentially 4 perks for the price of one since the whole team could benefit from it.
Old COH was one of the few things holding SoloQ together since it made self-healing possible (albeit in a small zone) without needing to hope a teammate takes the time to heal you and made randoms a potential asset to the team without meaning to. This and MFT are mostly to blame for the enhanced gen efficiency and lack of healing compared to before unless they run perks specifically for healing (self-healing now simply takes too much time in nearly every match to be viable).
Time in DBD is gen time, one person spending a bit of time to give self-healing to the whole team still left 3 people to do gens. Even nowadays boons are a hard-counter to Pentimento since booning Hex totems don't break them even if the Killer snuffs them out (it also adds insult to injury and doesn't give a noise notification to the Killer even if it takes a bit more time).
Boons are now useless for SoloQ but they can still see some use in SWF teams that aren't just meta addicts.
Sure. Boons can provide SOME value in SOME situations. Same as hexes. Good devour on lery's or swamp can make the game. Does this happen often? Hell no. But CAN it be of value? Very much. Boons are in the same boat in this regards. They feel bad - the only one that was strong was CoH and that one got nerfed so much, that I consider exponential better now.
They are in about same boat - Hexes are more fragile, but if they stand they give more value. Boons give much less value (it's questionable if it's even worth to stomp them now), but even though u can keep them up pretty consistently, you will probably not get value out of them (but from time to time they can change the outcome of whole match - if stars align).
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@JoaoVanBlizzard said:
Thanks guys, but I don't think that's the reason, because if spirit, for example, was 4.6 you would say the same thing, and it does very well even though it's 4.4 and Blight is much more powerful than it
I would really like to see a PTB testing Blight in 4.4 to see if it changes anything, but I thank everyone who took the time to respond, I'm happy to know that people like to help answer questions, you're really cool ^^
The thing is... I am pretty much convinced BASEKIT blight is actually fine. Should he had same "quality" of addons as say pyramidhead, freddy, nemesis or billy, he would be solid A-tier killer. Very strong, but far from OP. The problem is, that he has freaking 5 OP addons and then quite a few strong addons still. I just absolutely don't get why such a strong killer as blight needs 5 OP addons, and Freddy literally having 0 strong addons.
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@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543640#Comment_3543640
I always say: a perk that requires another to be useful isn't reliably good. Especially when Survivors can spawn in front of them at the start.
It's bad enough that Hexes are one-use while Boons are infinite, most Hex perks are not even worth the risk.
Imo all Hex perks should work like NOED and Plaything: until their effects are triggered for the first time they are not lit.
i'd rather have vulnerable perk that has some worth but will disappear quickly, then useless perk that I can burn time on repeatedly for very little value.
Both Hexes and boons are bad (hexes because some of them don't provide enough value - like 3rd seal or huntress lullaby AND all but plaything/pentimento are fragile) and boons because they are always more wasted time then actual benefit - because of tiny size they work on.
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@thisislastyearsmodel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543726#Comment_3543726
Nobody should have to play on Borgo or Red Forest, regardless of their power lmao. Those two and Garden are still ridiculously unbalanced.
Same as nobody should be forced to play midwitch, saloon, wrecker's yard, azarov's, rancid and a lot other maps that favor killers
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@Emeal said:
Most maps got reworked and are now absurdly killer sided. Even less pallets then before (i counted 6-8 in custom games, more 50/50 then before, lack of playable loops, more deadzones.
Objectively false statement.
???? Reworked cowshed is more survivor sided? Or Rancid abbatoir? Or eyerie of crows? Or RPD? Or what actual map that got recently changed is now more survivor sided?
If they made changes to the map - it was either visual (red forest realm), or it was pure killer buffs. Where do you live in? What world contains these kind of "fact"? Like I am really puzzled now. U can't be seriously thinking any of the reworks are now MORE survivor sided then before
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So if every xeno can't 4K every single game (only majority of them) it means he is survivor's plaything. Got it.
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Wow. Not even close. SM is totally different galaxy. Like I don't even mind new red forest. New colors look arguably better then old ones and nothing else actually changed
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Ok. In that case I can agree with that
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543768#Comment_3543768
Huntress is balanced by three things
4.4, learning curve projectile and lullaby. That's more than enough
Spirit, like Nurse -is the exception and not the rule as their powers were insanely strong (and still are) but as BHVR keeps the balance patches rolling, they are getting weaker and weaker. Some people claim Spirit is horrible now, despite the fact she plays basically the same
So we have 4.4 killers - slinger (when best players pick them he's as strong or stronger as huntress, but in average he is slightly too weak), huntress (solid A), spirit (literally 3rd strongest killer), hag (still considered very strong in comp-hands, but sure enough - not the best killer - but can't be called weak one), trickster (weak one, but 2nd best camper in game - making him low-mmr stomper).
So how did you come to conclusion, that 4.4 = bad killer?
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543715#Comment_3543715
Its just a glyph challenge ... can't be worse then the "Tough Stuff" unbroken challenge we got right now.
IDK. I don't want any more "equip no mither and nothing else" kind of challenges any more. It ruins the game for 3 other players. This one would land exactly into that category. I think it's much better to have challenges that force you to try different playstyles (do sabotages, blind killer X times, try out stealth build, or whatever else). Just not a challenge that makes the other players wish they had bot instead of u.
Also - unbroken challenge is perfectly fine. It can be tough, but it does not require u to throw the game for your teammates (like u make it a little harder for them as u don't take hits/hooks for them, but still)
EDIT: typo
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@Brokenbones said:
I think BHVR has been slowly phasing out 4.4 killers as a base because they consistently are some of the weakest killers in the game killrate wise and new players struggle to learn them. 4.6 killers are useable by newer players even if they have a complicated or skill expressive power like Blight
Whereas all 4.4 killers and Nurse, all require you to be constantly using your power otherwise you're at a huge disadvantage in regular chases
Spirit and Huntress would like a word with you
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542860#Comment_3542860
Oh, I like this! This is spicy, like that killer challenge that spawns a (brown I think) glyph right next to their starting position and communing with that glyph debuffs them in various ways (remember when you got this tinted screens and swaying movements that sadly made a lot of players sick? It was quite fun if you werent that badly affected by it).
This could be a new survivor glyph: "escape the trial while The Entity warps your perception of the world in frighting and unnatural ways."
as if soloQ wasn't bad enough already
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@pseudechis said:
I'd disagree about tombstone and tombstone piece.
You have to ramp up to use them which takes time and results in largely not progressing the killer objective for the duration.
For tombstone piece if you don't use it wisely you can wind up with no power left for the rest of the match.
Playing them is fun and facing them is scary two things DBD should be.
Not talking about Judith's - but you addressed both addons. It's clear you don't have that much experience. If I was ever to pick a game where I should win against much better team then I am, I will 100% NOT pick spirit/nurse/blight (even though I am decent spirit and nurse), but tombstone piece meyers with quick stalk and PWYF (no matter how good you are, you can't chase against 130% meyers), lethal (you need to charge PWYF ASAP - so that you can stalk easily), corrupt (more time for no investment) and deadlock (more time for no investment).
With this build (and a little bit of skill to not loose any stacks) most games will be totally free and the rest of them will be very doable. And I don't care how cracked your enemy team is (sure, if you get literally Oracle that knew beforehand, you probably will not win. But for everyone else, easy 3K). The downside is, that nobody really gets to play the game, nobody will get any points and probably everyone will depip.
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It's not fun. It's pure nerf. Horrible idea. Gen grabs would be very regular and easy thing - with no real counter (outside callouts in swf) and a lot of frustration. This is borderline as stupid as having gun (or some other kill killer mechanics) in game.
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@OneAutmLeaf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542881#Comment_3542881
Pretty sure ppl are talking mainly about MFT rn not DH lol
Pretty sure you didn't read my post (something you accused me of btw). How could anyone complain about mft year/years ago when it wasn't in the game?
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@thisislastyearsmodel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541416#Comment_3541416
People have asking for this very change for years. Where've you been, bud?
On this forum watching as NOBODY is asking for it and EVERYONE is focused on nerfing DH instead.
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@OneAutmLeaf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541416#Comment_3541416
You didnt read anything I said did you?
I read everything you said. And I have to repeat myself. ALL THE EFFECTS of the perks are unchanged since patch 1.5.0. Nobody even thought about this perk until DH nerf. There was like maybe 1 thread created about it in a month and it probably only considered Freddy (which is something I agree with BTW).
The perk is fine. It's balanced like it has always been. It's just one of the few usable things left in game so suddenly you feel it's absolutely OP. A thread like this would never even cross your mind a year ago (or a few years ago) - even though NOTHING about this perk has changed in a slightest. Not even activation after unhook.
@OneAutmLeaf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541418#Comment_3541418
Again Im fine with the effect it gives, not saying nerf that at all.... are ppl not reading my post lol, what im saying is that it shouldnt work after you got hooked, say before all the gens pop I hook you, and your friends opened the gates and came and unhooked you, why should you then get the adren health state and boost, when you werent even up when gens poped bc you were hooked?
Because you played whole game with 3 perks. Got to endgame alive AND happened to be in situation where it does something (you could as well be already healthy and being the one that poped the gen for 0 value. Or you could have been just downed as adrenaline poped for easy M1 from killer negating your perk. Or killer knew and dropped you under the hook after last gen popped to M1 you before you can do anything. Or killer has perks to negate adrenaline. Or something more).
It's risk/reward perk. There's 0 good reasons to take away reward if you don't touch risk aspect of the perk.
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It's to be expected. The nerf was substantial. No matter your MMR - you will now get a grace period, where you will loose most games. Because until now 4K with Xeno was too easy and you (and I don't mean u specifically) got your kills even "against better survivors". Give it a few games and your survivors will suddenly not be able to guess you correctly again.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541704#Comment_3541704
what about dredge? his nightfall ability is all about using locker's? locker are pretty good next to loops because they give opportunity to use deception perk but issue is that deception is kinda weak perk that nobody uses and that perk desperately needs buffs.
the locker and vault problem is likely a problem with hotkeys. going into a locker and vaulting being same key interaction can cause some unintended misplays on survivor end. one locker that made me once make that mistake is locker on RPD 2nd floor room that has those two pallets.
Sure. There are multiple solutions. Rebinding keys is absolutely acceptable alternative.
As for removing lockers from loops - nobody is asking for it. Just move them a little bit away from pallet/window. Most (all?) loops are large enough to fit locker, window and pallet on their own spot without risk of doing unintended interaction (which is already the case with window vs pallet).
@Emeal said:
Is this cause you guys are spamming the drop pallet button from like 6m away?
Nope. I remember I had this interaction 2x in a row, because locker and pallet were literally 2m away from each other (and I was in the middle) - it was super hard get close enough to pallet to not go into locker. I don't remember the map, but I think it was Gideon (I can absolutely be wrong though). What I do remember is, that it was specifically pallet vs locker
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/391377/remove-lockers-near-vaults-pallets
I would agree, but i think most of the troublesome lockers were placed specially to give dredge more teleportation...
I don't think that's true. There are terrible locker-dead-areas in a lot of maps (like headonfield center to name something) - and yet, there are lockers right next to vaults that ruin the game? Why? (but if we go off topic here - there could be a few more lockers for dredge players on quite a few maps - some spots on some maps are just terrible)
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yes please. It feels terrible falling for this as survivor and quite cheap if I play killer and someone goes locker instead of window.
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@antag0nisticw0mble said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541435#Comment_3541435
Charge time (full): 3 seconds
Charge time (partial): 1.25 seconds
Reload time: 4 seconds
Throw cool-down: 2 seconds
Yes. I read u wrong. I didn't realize u were talking about full charge (it didn't make that much sense to me given context). Sorry, my bad
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@antag0nisticw0mble said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541427#Comment_3541427
Isn't it almost 3s for a full charge at 77% movement speed without any addons.
No. It's definitely not that long. Pallets don't take 3s to drop and she can kill u on them if they predict your throw. I would consult wiki or other source, but I presume it will be somewhere around 1.5-2s
Edit: it's 1.25s according to wiki (and 3s for full charge)
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I don't think the perk needs any real nerfs. The only nice change to the perk would be, to inform obsession (because soloQ), that killer has the perk - but only after he accumulated some tokens (say when killer has 5 of them).
At that point SWF already knows and should send obsession to take stacks. So this would be soloQ only buff (which should fix the camping problem too as obsession should be able to take stacks even if killer camps).
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541397#Comment_3541397
They both put you in the exact lose-lose situations. The bias in the DBD community is insane.
How? If she pulls hatchet? You can just run. If she does not, you can throw it.
Xeno can M2 hit you no matter if you run, drop pallet or even (thanks to lingering hitbox and very long autonomy to aim during M2 is already pushed AND straif whole time) if you dodge.
There's no comparison
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Ah yes. Adren has high pick rate, because everything else got nerfed. So it means it's op now. It doesn't matter that it wasn't touched or complained about FOR LONG YEARS. It just needs nerf now, because survivors are not allowed to have useful perks
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So I have basically same view at the topic as Scott:
https://youtu.be/9TLZyw0BsN0?si=hd6oe_ymoTWP6hji -
@[Deleted User] said:
Alien: moves 2m/s for 3 seconds after missing... also has a 5m range
Huntress: moves 3m/s for 2 seconds after missing... has unlimited range
Ah yes let's nerf Alien because that is op!
It's actually hard to hit over obstacles with huntress. She has no lingering hitbox to adjust her throws. Hatchets have speed - which is quite low if you throw them right as u can. She provides strong cues before she can use her ability, or is reaaaaly slow when she holds it. She needs to reload while Xeno don't. Also huntress is 110% killer.
So overall Huntress feels fair - u can't just always get hit, just because. Xeno on the other hand felt like pure BS. Sure he had to close gap before he could injure (unlike huntress), but once he closed it you just had to lucky-guess or hope xeno is bad. That felt like total BS unlike huntress
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541242#Comment_3541242
2m/s is literally half the survivor's movement and was already the highest penalty compared to other killer cooldowns. It was the bug causing the cooldown speed to not apply that was making xenomorph seem like a bigger problem than it was. There wasn't a need to nerf the cooldown speed at the same time of fixing the bug.
How can it be highest penalty when 2m/s*3s is more distance covered then 0,9625m/s * 2.7s? His miss cooldown was probably THE most forgiving in whole game (provided you didn't find yourself closed-off in some space - like dropped pallet in shack when survivor runs out of shack while killer stays inside).
This was clearly seen by playstyle of most Xeno's - they just spammed M2 in hopes that they will hit someone eventually - and if that does not happen - survivor will loose enough distance for free M1 - because dodging M2 looses you distance.
This change was sorely needed. It makes the killer strong, but at least making him miss his M2 means SOMETHING instead of just postponed down by about 3s
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541147#Comment_3541147
Lethal is fully deleted by Distortion, you CANNOT debate on this.
Bringing Lethal+BBQ is 2 aura perks, and neither will proc on a distortion user because
A - You start with 3 tokens -1 for lethal, so you still get 2 get outta jail free cards for when your TM's get hooked.
B - The token regen is so lenient and so quick (30s in the TR) that you can realistically always have ATLEAST 1 token up for every of the 9 possible BBQ Procs (And yes possible is the right word because if you're within 40m of the hook, you wouldn't lose a token either way).
C - If the kilers only option to get value out of his remaining aura perks(because lethal got deleted straight up) is to bring a THIRD aura perk, then theres an undeniable problem.
D - If it requires a killer that can burn tokens just by pressing M2 for the aura build to be useful, then again, undeniable problem. (Even then, Lethal would get deleted, once again by distortion).
Ah. So you ignore what I wrote and just reiterate your non-arguments. Got it. Why do u even discuss at this point?
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541218#Comment_3541218
https://clips.twitch.tv/ObservantDarlingStarlingGrammarKing-j--xnudPrIw34ZG1
250ms is more than enough has proven by *actual players* , your lag doesn't and shouldn't be factured into how long of a delay an attack needs to be, thats a you problem.
Again, Im going to say it again because it seems you dont read enough.
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Theres an actual *thought process* and multiple actions that the xeno player has to do in order to destroy a turret without being knocked out, so the theoretical 400ms window of error is indeed fair and short enough.
Same thing for the 250ms to dodge the tail, you're given 250ms to decide if you want to press A or D.
The timeframes are not comparable 1:1 because of these inherent differences in what is required of you to do within each frame.
Right. Because if u want to move/dodge at least 1m away... how long it takes? How much time you are left for reaction? But you uhhh have enough time to dodge while not having enough time to shoot turrets xD Talk about double standards :D
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541120#Comment_3541120
250ms is more than enough to react on sight as proven by multiple people, but here, take a refresher :
https://clips.twitch.tv/ObservantDarlingStarlingGrammarKing-j--xnudPrIw34ZG1
You're legitimately forgetting that Xeno v turret isn't just "Press M2 when screen goes burn", Its more akin to "OH DAMN A TURRET WHERE IS IT? OH TO MY LEFT , FLICK MOUSE TO TURRET AND PRAY I HAVE MY IMAGINARY CROSSHAIR ON IT, CLICK M2!"
Theres an actual *thought process* and multiple actions that the xeno player has to do in order to destroy a turret without being knocked out, so the theoretical 400ms window of error is indeed fair and short enough.
Same thing for the 250ms to dodge the tail, you're given 250ms to decide if you want to press A or D.
The timeframes are not comparable 1:1 because of these inherent differences in what is required of you to do within each frame.
So survivor just has to know and be able to get it in 250ms - lags and - actual movement time and that's fair, but killer's 400ms - 0 is barely enough. U don't need to say anything more. U have just proven my point
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540528#Comment_3540528
False equivalency.
Under no pretense will lethal work trough distortion, BBQ is also full hard countered whole match and the only option is to give up extra perk slots just to burn trough tokens in hopes of being able to use your other auras.
CS? Under absolutely no pretense will scream perks work against a CS user. It even actively counters spies.
Point still stands , sloppy doesn't delete healing perks , unlike distortion and CS deleting aura and scream perks.
it's false equivalency ONLY because it does not suite your narrative.
The same thing you did in last thread. 250ms is enough time (latency included) to dodge while 400ms is barely enough to destroy a turret.
Anything that suits my needs is fine and everything that does not is some kind of fallacy or something. 100% objective view on things.
More to the topic - it does not counter lethal, because 2s longer still stands - if u use 2+ aura perks, you can eat thru tokens and have longer aura. There. Same "counter" as u can already heal in killer's TR... Similar for BBQ - take mirror meyers and after 3rd hook there's no distortion whasoever. Reminds me of reactive healing and hemorrage. But there's absolutely some kind of fallacy hidden out there ;)
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540517#Comment_3540517
By default xeno takes 0.2s to windup and 0.4 to hit. So already thats 0.6s that you cannot "improve on" put in a reaction time of 0.17 for audio and you have a minimum reaction time of 0.77s
If you factor in another 0.2 - 0.3 for actually locating the turret , that jumps to 0.97 or 1.07.
Turrets take 1.5 seconds to remove crawler mode, so xeno has effectively a 0.400 ms window of error, which can be shortened or outright deleted if the turrets are well placed.
Of course, if you place the turrets out in the open that window of error is going to double.
In conclusion, buffing turrets is not feasible just learn to place your turrets right.
So much inconsistency xD So move the sound cue to survivors at the beginning of M2?
So how can be 250ms long enough and get good while 400ms is just not enough and learn to place turrets? You even have time overlap of 150ms that just screams at your double standards :D Like this is comical at this moment :D
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540516#Comment_3540516
You act as if multi level maps dont exist.
Someone going down on the top floor is highly likely to be in 32m range of someone else when it comes to the game /RPD/ haddonfield houses/GOJ house , or just the plain old "healing under hook" strat.
Point is, the 50% still triggers, if you get value out of it its entirely up to you, even just going down normally would "counter reactive healing "
So it works in some specific cases on some specific maps under some specific occasions. Sounds a lot like distortion that works only if killer has TR and killer does not have too many aura reading perks...