Gandor
Gandor
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I will not repeat myself concerning MfT - I consider the perk underwhelming compared to basically everyone so let's leave it at that.
Talking about all the other perks - I don't get it. They are perfectly fine the way they are. Coup does not automatically mean you will get hit. It's at most 10x a killer will get longer lounge hit where he can still miss it or waste it where he would get a hit regardless. It costs 1 perk slot that could have been slowdown/regression perk instead. I just don't understand why it's any issue that killer can get hits at safer loops a bit more reliably at most 10 times - without him deciding when he wants to take it and at a cost of a perk slot (it's not like a basekit adjustment. That would have been very problematic).
As for hope. Really? Like we are possibly talking about last 20-30s of a match - or maybe a bit longer while killer camps and everyone resets for a final push for a rescue. How is this a big deal? It does not even guarantee escape. Even with MfT survivors can be caught (alas it's very difficult and it makes much more sense to go for literally anyone else). But the point stands - 3 perks for a very last part of a match that does not even guarantee escape is unfair for what reason? Because I quite frankly don't get it. Most killers if they are going to win - they will do it before last gen pops anyway (making hope absolutely useless even with conjunction to MfT even if you are not one of those people that already died).
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3550791#Comment_3550791
How do you shoulder flick a hug tech? Do you even know what a shoulder flick is?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3550945#Comment_3550945
J flick has been patched out for years now. And even J-flick could be outplayed by going wide. Blight had no correction when J-flicking.
I didn't mean shoulder flick during hug tech. That indeed is not possible because of where blight is looking. I was talking about trying to leave the loop or outplay it when you stay and blight is just "going at it as tightly as possible" without hug-teching (which is a lot of time enough as he can flick so you need to be quite a distance from him to not get hit).
There's just too few options if blight has super speed from stacked speed addons. He's perfectly fine when he has just 1 speed or some other addons (provided he does not have just 1 speed, because say alchemist ring).
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3550785#Comment_3550785
Yes. The best survivors leave the loop as soon as they recognize a hug tech and put another obstacle in between them. Only very experienced blight’s will react properly to this, and nobody here is facing top blight’s over and over. Some tiles won’t even allow you to react to them leaving the tile because of surrounding obstacles. It’s all about game sense.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3550791#Comment_3550791
Hug tech takes away blight’s view of the survivor momentarily. Leave during this time. And put more objects between yourself and the blight. Yes, going wide is an option for many hug techs AND is also the best counter for flicking around corners. A hug T requires a flick of the camera to slide around many of the tiles, already committing some of your turn angle to the inside, not allowing the blight to fully flick back out if you run it wide.
I’m telling you, it works.
Oh it works only on basic blights. Double speed guarantees you will not make it to next loop in time (provided you don't make him miss - in which case you can move during his CD). If he has 1 speed or just vial, then sure. If loops are very well connected, then it also works. Otherwise there's no chance.
Again. Good blight will J-flick if you try to run at him. He will basically hit you every time when just going around obstacles. The only thing that is actually working is going behind the corner and running back widely just as he reaches corner if he does not expect it as this hides you for just long enough for blight to actually run far away enough to not be able to flick back. This requires sharp turn and you having enough time to get behind it and back and killer not expecting it (meaning it will work 1 or 2 times) - but him expecting it opens other possibilities (that are at best 50:50 and at worst about as good as 360)
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3550848#Comment_3550848
Yes, we get it. If survivors struggle in matches it's always because of external factors. If killers struggle, it's because they are bad at the game.
??? What?
I talked about basic stuff. I wasn't talking how they got into that state. Basically only about timing. Chases for killer should not be too long (with length being defined by time it takes to unhook and reset and get to gen again), or he is loosing. Otherwise he's winning.
It's very simple rule that generally works, but has quite a few exceptions (does not work for kill-addon meyers, or oni, or most likely on plague, or on setup killers like trapper, or....). Also as the game progresses chases will be easier, so getting to (and beyond) that point is also easier. It really does not say much more.
And the point why I mentioned it was, that @xltechno mentioned 2 survivors are at all times free to do gens - which is incorrect - because if that's the case, survivors are actually winning (no matter how they got into such state and ignoring any snowball killer can get at basically any point of game should survivors make a single big mistake)
@xltechno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3550848#Comment_3550848
I understanded already.
However, it should be taken into consideration that one is not always onhook, other is trying to rescue him, and the other is chasing.
Sometimes one person turns into a slug, one is onhook, one is chased, and the remaining one goes to the rescue.
One may be taking care of the chase while the other is healed and soon three are repair the generator.
If Anyone have been a survivor for a long time, you will realize that it is rare for only one person to work on a generator at any given time.
Especially as you become more advanced, one person is always touching the generator, so having one or more people involved will improve its efficiency.
Of course, there are times when this is not the case, such as when moving or hiding, but the killer also has time to lose, so that cancels out the time.
For this reason, many intermediate and advanced players make fun of the fact that a killer with few special abilities can win only because of a big mistake on the part of the survivor.
(At least in Japan) This is something to recognize in both survivors and killers.
If we define a killer victory as resulting from 3 or more kills.
Sure it's not always the case. But it should be the case on average (less so at beginning and more so as game progresses) if killer wants to win.
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@xltechno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3550645#Comment_3550645
Don't forget that there are 4 survivors!
On average, two people are always free, and the killer cannot protect generator from sirvivors attack.
Generators are not allowed to escape and are under constant threat of attack.
Since the conditions are different from each other, it is difficult to compare them.
However, one thing we can say with certainty is that Survivors can extend their lives by chasing, but the opposite is true for Killers.
And during the chase, the killer's life is constantly being taken away from him.
The time elapsed by one chase is enough to repair one generator or bring several generators to the survivor's advantage.
Therefore, one is not better than the other; killers and survivors are on equal footing.
Therefore, tunnels have the same value and should be punished equally.
If 2 survivors are free, you are playing it wrong. When 4 survivors are alive (and not counting very beginning of the game - where corrupt and lethal swing the way to "standard"), it should always be that 1 survivor is in chase, 1 survivor is on a hook, 1 survivor is going for unhook/healing and only 1 survivor is doing gens. If this is not true, that means your chases are bad/too long (and this is also the reason why if 1 survivor is tunneled out at 2+ full gens remaining, it's usually killer's win).
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@ProHillbillyMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3550791#Comment_3550791
It's actually 40%, because the first rush does not increase your movement speed.
Ok. That's something and my mistake. But still... 40 freaking % quicker. That's more then anyone else can have
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3550263#Comment_3550263
Consider the following: run towards the Blight and let him slide past you and disorient himself.
ehm. Shoulder flick? Either the blight is new, or he will get you 100% of times.
@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3550263#Comment_3550263
This is such a huge misconception. Double speed blight going for a hug tech is the most recognizable thing in the game. Know what you do? Either LEAVE THE LOOP or SWING OUT WIDE. It’s that easy.
Leave the loop? Against double speed? So you are in the open after his next bump? That's 100% hit for any reasonable blight. Going wide - you won't make it in time. Shoulder flick exists and double speed is just too quick for you to make enough distance (Reasonable blight would 2-3x hit obstacle 4th go for a hit and 5th goes for correction if needed).
@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3549610#Comment_3549610
Double speed is fine
No it's not. 40% increase speed (or even 50% for last hit) is something NO OTHER KILLER has. Take Oni - he has laughable 21% at most - for a power he does not have all the time (him being M1 killer for a considerable time). It's absolutely bonkers. There's very little you can do but hope blight will screw up. I still don't get why it's something so strong in basekit that needs addons like these and Freddy/Billy/Demo that would actually benefit from such a powerful addons have basically none in comparison.
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@xltechno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3550626#Comment_3550626
Excuse me, I'm not good at English, so I may have written this with the opposite meaning.
What I wanted to say is that Survivor players should be understanding about your 1 and 2.
Ah right. Then we are in agreement
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IMO the only thing devs should do now with the killer is fix his hitbox (to the version when it came live). Current miss CD and everything else is perfect. I might change my mind with consideration to camping hook (something people brought up and didn't feel super fair), but right now (even with this knowledge) I think the killer is perfect (again - I already consider his tail hitbox fixed).
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it's a change for a sake of change. Same as ruin. They didn't have to ruin ruin, but alas - DS and ruin are both shadow of their former glory. All in the name of "changing meta"
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@xltechno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546805#Comment_3546805
He explains the basic tactics every survivor should understand.
Until you understand this, you shouldn't complain about the system or mention balance.
??? I don't understand. Did you quote wrong person? I did not complain. Actually I was the one (in quoted message) that explained how to block correctly
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3550179#Comment_3550179
Problem is (like a specific TTV who does basement Bubba for a living already showed) that Bubba will just wait on a different location instead. You will get the unhook, but there will still be someone in the basement afterwards. It might even be enough to just stay on the top side of the shack without the timer going up because of how the meter works.
Ok. That's fine. Basement is still net loss. I am ok with that (survivors just need to learn to go down far away from basement - same for trapper). But any other hook is no longer that problematic against S+ camping killers.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3550037#Comment_3550037
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zf1AnLPNRQ
Well, I have to say, playing with high ping is without any doubt a huge advantage for the killer. Did you see how many hits I'm able to land while everybody is just playing without problems?
And that poor Jake, he didn't had any chance to react! It's so OP having lag in a game with a client-server architecture! Totally worth it. Who don't want to play like this?
And now talking seriously, it really surprised me that most of the match was playing fine. The game should have the hell out of good lag compensation. For reference, the lowest connection I had seen right now is 100 Mb (Megabit) per second... that is 12500 KB (KiloByte) per second, and I'm playing there at 6 KB/s. So, another proof that your internet speed has nothing to do with being lagged nowadays.
Bandwidth + reliability is not latency. We were talking about latency (laggy killer). What you showed is the thing that happens when your information basically can't reach server at all. That's totally different problem that you can't get, provided you have internet from 21st century or you are not using artificial speed limiter.
I don't know if I talked about it in this thread or another, but unreliable low bandwidth internet is indeed problem also for killer - but high latency is just pure benefit for every killer.
But you can get lags even with best internet in the world if DBD decides to connect you to far-away server (which is true for everyone from Africa and middle east for example) or if you decide to use proxy.
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This prevents only facecamping. Like #########? Do we really want to promote that bubba staying in front of you to win game? The mechanic is long overdue
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@Emeal said:
nobody wants to use monstrous shrine as a synergy perk, its not THAT good and the benefit from the synergy is not enough.
Then let's talk about monstrous shrine. I 100% agree the perk is trash-tier and should get (reasonable - in this case that will be still big) buff. But having scourges in basement basekit does not sound reasonable
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3549580#Comment_3549580
When I said that? But I have to say, saying that a killer with high ping would give less reaction to a survivor when in any case what would do is make the killer whiff attacks that should have hit it's a little misleading.
Also, some examples of latency benefiting survivors:
- On generator grabs (and previously hook grabs). The killer see the survivor still doing the gen, go for the grab, the grab animation start to play but the server receive the info that the survivor let go the gen and the grab animation stop, leaving the killer just stand there or in the best case doing a quick attack.
- On pallets. Even when they get obviously hit they can still drop the pallet in the same instant. And that is if they get hit, as sometimes you see how they are eating your machete but doesn't even get hit at all.
- On getting hits. Like I said, there are times when you have obviously hit someone and either left unharmed or the game does a rollback because he used some perk. The perfect example of this are the times when you do a hit, hear a death scream, but you get DHd instead of the survivor going down.
Again, lag affects everybody, sometimes for better and sometimes for worst. It never is all benefit for someone, none for the others. And again-again, you know all this because we talked about it in extent in another post. So, who is lying here?
To your 3 points - all those things barely matter, because they happen MUCH less often then getting hit in chase (specifically behind the pallet/window/corner/whatever). Also it's been quite a lot of patches since I saw any hit being validated away from killer side.
To high ping would give less reaction to a survivor
That's absolutely the case. Suppose you are at basically ANY loop in a game and survivor is trying to play it instead of holding W. You watch from which side killer comes - if he has ping, he changed direction 400ms ago, but you still see him going the original way. Because there's no packet that could arrive to you. Said killer has no punishment for having such a ping and all the positives. He has survivor running directly at him without any possible chance for survivor to know that. Meaning he gets in basic case (4+4,15)*0.4=3,26m distance free benefit JUST BY HAVING BAD PING.
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@dbdthegame said:
This is why it's so hard for both sides to take each other seriously in this game. Survivors start off by being reasonable (nerf alch ring, c33 and vial) and move on to becoming overzealous (flicks are an exploit, antilooping me is an exploit, rework the bliggutt). Same with killers (nerf MFT, nerf COH, nerf DH into flashlights are OP, nerf exhaustion).
Blight does need an addon pass, specifically for C33, vial and ring. That's it.
add double speed (stacked, 1 of them separately is fine) and we are in full agreement
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3549331#Comment_3549331
In this game killer having high ping has triple the benefit while survivor has NEVER any benefit
You know how and why this is a lie because I already explained it to you in another post. Lag affects for better or worst every single player in the game in many ways, including not getting hits that they should have get in the case of survivors.
So my points A, B, C, never actually happen? I think the lie is what YOU say
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3549305#Comment_3549305
I don't know why it works like this tbh. The real problem is that a significant portion of the playerbase has higher ping because there are not enough servers.
A while ago I had a killer from South Africa. I live in Germany. They told me they have always red ping because the closest Servers for them are in Brazil and Germany. It's similar for people living in the middle east and central Asia.
I suggest that you take the killer's red light as an indicator how far away they really are when facing a laggy killer.
I do know when killer has high ping. But there's nothing really to be done about it. You can't loop. You are basically stuck with prethrowing (which sometimes comically end up being stun or even hit in extreme cases) and holding W. Which means the match is lost no matter how good you are
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540422#Comment_3540422
Network wise "splitting the difference " is not feasible.
https://youtu.be/6EwaW2iz4iA?si=89MAZBiaf0Ia2gaC
this video is about csgo , but it explains how network / lag compensation works.
The conclusion is that the server has to favor the "hitter" otherwise it would look extremely weird for the hit / shot to go trough a person and do no damage, couple that with dbd hitboxes being mismatched with the character (they are just big standing cilinders)
CSGO is absolutely not the same thing. It's symmetrical. In this game killer having high ping has triple the benefit while survivor has NEVER any benefit.
a, he gives shorter reaction time to survivor until his info arrives to server (first extra benefit)
b, he sees survivor where there are no survivor any more (second extra benefit)
c, he hits something even if there was action that should not allow it.
For this reason, it's not "it would look extremely weird for killer", but it looks 3x extremely weird for survivor. Like the amount of BS is absolutely insane. That's why everyone is constantly complaining about it. You never see killers speaking about lags with exception to apologize for some BS that happens in game. DBD is the ONLY game I know of where you actually want to use proxy servers to worsen your ping. Every other game understands, that having bad ping should be neutral or at worst case a small negative. Not a winning strategy.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
Agreed here. Being fully healed should also be considered it. If you were in a position to be fully healed, you clearly weren't getting tunneled, lol.
you are 99% right. But survivor could have gotten syringe / or if very lucky - unhooker had we will make it+botany+purple medkit.
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@BarnesFlam said:
I think tunning down Hope to 5% so it serves as a counter-measure NOED would be sweet.
countermeasure? Then it means it should be 5% + permanent endurance (it does not mean invincibility, because endurance during bleeding does not protect you) - but maybe make it (map-wide) boon totem. Then it stands. Otherwise it's not comparable.
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Oh yes. Strongest killer in game is not blight. It's whoever has 400+ms ping. You can do whatever, but you will just get that hit. This is the only game I know of, where having worse internet is actually helpful
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If hope is OP, then that's skill issue. Most games where I win last gen does not even pop. In those game survivors having hope or adrenaline just makes it that much easier for me
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3547711#Comment_3547711
trickster has camping potencial without using main event. main event is snowball tool. a slugging tool to be more precise that barely works properly because.... throwing mode itself is poorly balanced for most players to use trickster at an average level. you have to work hard to try to negate trickster's weaknesses. regular throwing mode is sufficient for tunneling survivors off hook.
As is, I consider this killer one of those weaker from the pool.
Since he is weaker among the pool, they should buffing his chasing capacity so that average killer player that selects him is less reliant on tunneling survivors off the hook to have closer matches.
I agree he needs buff. Selfishly I would say he should get nerf instead (personal bias - I don't like to go against him) but objectively, he definitely needs buffs.
As for main event - sure enough it is snowball tool, but imagine someone is endgame hooked just on a hill (not even basement) and trickster can decide when to run main event - even 3man save would end with at minimum 2 people down (so no - trade is not possible). The chance to use main event freely as camping tool would make him better camper then current bubba
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
I don't understand why they buffed locker reloading? As a trickster/artist main there was so many more reasonable buffs to him. Like letting main event be kept for much longer or even forever if not used.
the buff to lockers in my opinion just takes away survivors reward for dodging knives/hatchets. (Less time to get away)
Main event is time-limited, because of camp potential. Like it would be OK if he could turn it on/off if there was like 12m (or more) radius around hook where trickster will just refuse to throw any knife.
As is, I consider this killer one of those weaker from the pool. But at the same time he is (arguably) already 2nd best camper in game (right after bubba and before huntress/clown/meyers) and new anti-facecamp mechanic would not change anything about it. Proxy camping is more effective way anyway.
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Let's not go that way. There are patches that favor one side with another patches that favor the other side. A patch that made killers more resistent to hold-W by shortening cooldowns clearly favored killers. The patch that introduced HUD to see teammates actions clearly helped survivors (specifically soloQ).
Devs are trying to make the game enjoyable for as many people as possible. Sure they are not perfect, but overall I am convinced the game is going in good direction.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3547614#Comment_3547614
Good god... you keep acting as if the killrates are a curve going from 47 to 60s...
You have 31/33 killers in the 47-55 range
Then there's 2... sadako and SM.... that spike up to 60+ ... a whole 5% extra above the closest one.
If you cant see how a 5% spike that sets 2 killers very far apart from the average distribution sets them as outliers and shouldn't be counted (this while just ignoring the problems that current sadako and SM have which on its own explains the killrate spike), you need to go back to school and learn statistics all over again.
What?!?! You are trying to say 57% kill rate of nurse is actually below 55%? Or Xenomorph? Even twins have above 55%. Or I don't get it. Something wrong that you just didn't notice? Or are these also outliers (but certainly those 7 killers with kill rate below 50% are statistically significant and most certainly not an outlier. I think I see the pattern)
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546833#Comment_3546833
I talk from the perspective of all the times I have being accused of "tunneling" when I had found a survivor way after he was unhooked again, or because he spent his free protection in trying to save someone else. From the perspective of survivors leaving me the last closest 3 gens the map can generate and then complain that I was 3 genning when I wasn't the one that decided to leave that gens for last. The perspective of people saying I'm a camper because at the EGC, when I don't have any reason to leave the hook, I stay beside it to get a last kill.
And specially, from the perspective that in all the time I had play survivor I had not suffer any of those things to the extend of it being "bad for the game overall" or even my experience. I had games like that of course, including slugging me for no more reason than trying to get me mad, but not as often as many survivor mains cry in this forum it happens.
With this said, again, you are simply wrong. It is not easy to tunnel right now, unless the survivor make it easy for the killer to tunnel him on unhook, either by trying to use the Endurance to do a protection hit or not choosing well his path and not gaining enough distance from the killer. That is a fact. The current system do it's job without making you invincible or compensate for you not knowing what you have to do and messing up, how it must be.
So, again, if you really suffer so much hard tunneling in all your games, upload multiple recordings (something that is not going to be hard for you, as from the way you talk it seems you get tunneled every single game) to see how and why you get tunneled so much. Because no, it hasn't being proof that you suffer that much tunneling, and it can be a hated playstyle and all what you want, but that people hate it doesn't mean it happens so often as you and other claims.
you have those people in both groups. It's just salty looser. It doesn't matter if you play killer or survivor. Happened upon those too.
I also happened on killers that claim my group was genrushing, when there was no perk in game that speeds up gen repair progress and the only toolbox in game was my alexis that was used purely to sabo. Or that other killer that talks about how meta slaves we are when literally my most used perk had 6% usage rate.
Just ignore those. There's nothing else to be done. Weird people are everywhere
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3547589#Comment_3547589
You legitimately do not understand how statistics work.
You have 31/33 killers ranging from 47-55 with 2 outliers in the 60s and try to claim that the average isn't 47-55 (high 40s low 50s).
It doesnt matter that you only consider "the cut off to be 52.5" because that is just purely mathematically wrong.
You're being given cold hard evidence that you're fundamentally wrong and still try to argue, you're quite honestly one of the most stubborn and blatantly biased persons on this forum.
Everything that does not go with your narrative is outlier or something else.
The fact is, that most (26) of the killers have above 50% kill rate. 2 of those even above 60% and just 7 have below 50%. There's no way to spin around that one. You can't call everything that does not go with your narrative as outlier. Also there are 5 killers that have above 55% kill rate. If everything that does not suit your narrative is anomaly, then that's not statistics, that's manipulation
EDIT: typo. it's 5 killers not 4 killers that have above 55% kill rate
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3547547#Comment_3547547
You're literally going " well 5 killers have 100% killrate , other 5 have 0% so it means all killers are 50%! See its all balanced!!"
The *literal mathematical "border" is the 5* under 55 = low 50s , above 55 = high 50s.
Again, you have 22/33 (TWENTY TWO) under 55% 7/33 (SEVEN) under 50% 2/33 are at 56% (a literal 1% above the cutoff) and another 2/33 as outliers at 60% (TWO KILLERS OUT OF THIRTY THREE)
So yes, low 50s-high 40s is the most accurate statement when it comes to killrates.
You're trying to overcomplicate math and move the goalposts to suit your narrative, it doesn't make you look good.
1, 52.5% is the absolute highest point I would agree on saying "high 40s low 50s" because anything else averages out higher "low 50s to high 50s". This is something that actually corresponds to your last statement. Yet you can't put it together.
2, if you have killers that have 100% or 0% kill rate - then that's something to focus on. This is actually feedback section so such a thing absolutely needs feedback. And right now there are 2 killers with insanely high kill rate no matter if u like it or if you try to disregard it. They still contribute to games.
3, by your definition most killers are above 50% and everything else is outlier. Even those under 50% are just 7 champs (less then 1/4th of all killers). So you either take full interval (killers are between low 60s and high 40s) or you remove outliers (killers are on average above 50%). So finally. STOP THAT CHERRY PICKING. You do that in all threads
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@BugReporterOnly said:
If this were to happen in a real life scenario they would be stabbed. There shouldn't be anyway the killer misses unless they are no longer in the fov that close.
in real life just 1 hook would almost certainly kill someone. In real life 95% of killers would not exist. In real life Meg would outsprint most of the killers - definitely legion. In real life..... The point is, it's game. You should not be guaranteed anything. FoV techs and dodging like that are main counterplay to some killers (like Xeno). You can't just remove this aspect of the game.
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I think he's fine. Last patch something indeed happened with hitboxes (I had a lot of shots that I am positive landed in previous patch, but did not this patch) - that needs to be reverted. But miss cooldown is actually very much needed/appreciated. I think he's in a good spot now (provided they fix those hitboxes).
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3547510#Comment_3547510
Again, i dont know what kind of math classes you took to come up with those numbers...
You have have 2 killers above 60% (sadako and SM) 2 killers in the 56 range (nurse and xeno ) 22 killers under 55% 7 under 50%.
What kind of statistics are you pulling out of your rear end to come up with "high 50s" when 29/33 killers are under 55% 2/33 are a hair over at 56, and another 2 being obvious outliers at 60+.
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Also no, a "fair killrate" isn't 50% thats equal to 6 hooks a game. 60% is 8 hooks, which is a blatantly more close and fair game for both sides.
1, 2 kills per game is anything between 0 and 10 hooks. Literally anything. Hooks do not correspond to kills. You are totally mistaken. 50% kill rate just means that survivor has 50% chance to escape (a fair outcome) and killer is just as likely to win as loose (or draw where "the game does not count"). Yet in your world fair is not fair
2, I explicitly mentioned my source and the way how to calculate it. READ AGAIN. If my math does not check out, you can point it out. Just a note - I scraped those numbers via script so good luck finding a mistake.
3, even if you disregard SM - you still have average of 53.769446%. So it's even still above 52.5% numerical "border" where I would consider "high 40s/low 50s" to be valid argument. But it's not. This is you again twisting reality to suit your needs.
4, if we really disregard math averages and go at it your way of taking each killer separately - you are the one pulling out numbers. You yourself said there are killers above 60% kill rate, but that somehow does not count, because that does not sound so nice like "low 50s high 40s".
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546762#Comment_3546762
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5SSFRCLDPVGD/image.png
I dont know what kind of math classes you took, but 47-48-49 is not "way above 50s"
you know for a fact the average would be *alot lower* if SM wasn't contributing 65% on her own.
Average it out. Take each killer, get their pick rate, multiply it by kill rate and add that all together. The result is 54.586% . Meaning killers kill about 5% more time then fair 50%. How is that "low 50s high 40s now" The math just not average out to that. At best it's "high 50s to high 40s"
Also one note. Even though SM absolutely counts, even without her the average is 53.769446% which means still 4% above fair 50%. So it's still not "low 50s high 40s now"
@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546762#Comment_3546762
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546994#Comment_3546994
In the interest of pissing everyone off, the actual kill rates are currently 52.97% (a far cry from the claimed ~55). And SM only contributes to 325 games. Stats without her games are about 52.80%.
That being said, this also includes solo games, and people DCing (as evidenced by SM's 65%). BHVR aims for a 60% kill rate iirc, so we're still comfortably below.
How did you come to that conclusion? Just averaging out all kill rates (so no weighted average by pick rate=play rate) gives me 52.829% . That's still above 50%, but we are getting close now. Then again - if you don't average it by pick rate - you get also unpopular killers which does not represent what you actually get in your average game (but it's useful information for devs to know which killers probably need to be looked at).
EDIT: I added 2nd response to 1st one so to not spam posts
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@Felgoose said:
You're not meant to be matched only with survivors at your skill level. Matching with a balanced skill level teammate widens the available skill level of killers you can face in a random que. If you're higher skilled than the killer, you can be paired with someone lower skill level than the killer and it becomes a decently fair match.
And this I suspect is the way devs look at matchmaking and this exactly is the reason why SWF is so strong. You match yourself with 4 friends that know how to play. You won't have 1 player that does not know anything. So he will not get tunneled out at 5 gens. And it means that no matter how good you are, you won't fix 5 generators with just 3 people.
Same-strength survivor in a game where tunneling is so common is a must. SWF is not OP because of comms, but because it circumvent matchmaking
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@thisislastyearsmodel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546782#Comment_3546782
Yes, but I will say, the collisions for body-blocking are kind of funky. I've put in at least two separate bug reports now that you can be standing directly in front of a hook to block (MoM stacks, baby!) and the killer can literally just go through you. I've had it happen to me as survivor and done it as killer.
1, you are probably blocking it wrong. You shouldn't touch the pole of the hook. You should be directly under the hook (meaning a little bit away from pole). If you are touching wood, killer can hook normally
2, if killer hits you, you indeed loose collision. You can't take 2nd hit that way. A teammate must help instead of you (you can then take 3rd hit). Alternatively if you have any toolbox or saboteur perk, killer can't hook so long as u sabotage. U can use that...
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@Rihelo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3545764#Comment_3545764
the problem is that he is extremely hard to manage him even with emps, like nurse she's really hard to manage but she's the best killer, however singularity isn't even A tier he's probably mid b tier at most, yes he is really strong in good hands but most killers are, they are just weak when they go against survivors that know what they're doing, twins could be strong but some people make their ability useless by holding victor hostage for 30 seconds, for the singularity's case people are gonna be holding emps the entire game until you shoot them with a pod and they proceed to get another emp.
I think the killer is low A-tier when you actually master him. But the thing is, that as you correctly pointed out - you need to do a lot of things to manage him correctly. That's super hard. People won't be able to achieve that reliably. That's why nobody plays him.
Also - to clarify my previous post. I don't like to go against singularity, because the game is never fun. Either the person playing it knows and my team gets totally destroyed, or he does not know/is in bad map and the game is too easy. There's never balanced fun game where both sides have to try.
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That is by design. Killers should also be able to hook survivors
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546011#Comment_3546011
Why be disengenous? Nightlight currently has ~24k games in ~30 days it is an extremely good sample size from Mid-High MMR (you know, the MMR brackets that actually know what they are doing)
The BHVR official stats include everyone even the Low hour fresh installs that ONLY have access to Spinechill ,selfcare etc, Out of the "top 10 perks" the only one that isn't a "free perk" is lithe.
People keep refering to those "stats" to claim MFT isn't as seen as claimed, but the reality is, *Half the stats tracked were before MFT was even introduced*
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"The only people who complain about perks being strong are killers. You wouldn't complain about Spine Chill or Self Care being worthy of a nerf but yet those perks are in the top 10. It's the ones that are obviously losing you games."
Guess you must have missed survivor mains complaining about UW giving killers the ability to know your *general whereabouts when you're inside the terror radius*
Can we actually be honest? Stats from nighlight say that average kill rate is 54.586%. That's way above 50% and absolutely NOT in 40s. At least provide correct information (source weighted average from https://nightlight.gg/killers/viewer?sort=pick&shown=pick%7Ckill&start_days=28 )
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@Orthane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546031#Comment_3546031
I disagree with this sentiment, his base kit is still OP. He should be a 4.4 killer not a 4.6. With that much mobility he needs to have a weakness to just W chasing.
Try to dodge basekit blight and immediatelly after that try to dodge double speed blight. Or crows/vial blight. Or try to use pallets if he has C33.
Basekit blight is strong, but manageable. You can play around him. Most loops do work somehow. The problem is if he uses some of his OP addons - and he has 5 of them + some other really good ones to add to the collection. Really - basekit blight is fine
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546619#Comment_3546619
Are you really comparing shattered hope that should be a basekit ability whos only job is to counter boons a bit better with no other effects (99/100 times its a wasted slot since no boons) , to calm spirit ... a perk where even if the killer doesn't bring scream perks you still get a couple of other strong benefits...
Where does the bias stop with you?
Ah yes. Strong benefits. Like having totems take 30% longer. Or chests. VERY GOOD BENEFIT.
As I said before - this is one of a few perks that would make sense if killer could FORCE the perk on survivors (no mither being the obvious other option).
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@Felgoose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546454#Comment_3546454
Nobody used it because it was only useful in a very niche situation, and not extremely useful even then. Shattered hope has always needed an additional function. Maybe allow dull totems to be stomped as well as show the aura of dull totems for so many seconds after a gen is completed. Even then it would only be meh unless paired with pentimento.
Ah but equipping calm spirit makes u more vulnerable against totem builds. So either both are bad counters or both are good counters. You can't have cake and eat it too.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546456#Comment_3546456
i think you misunderstood the perk so I tried clean-up description. you are already forced to walk sometimes to avoid triggering the perk in certain instances. "why would I ever want bg player to activate on heal or on unhook? It makes 0 sense" this statement just tells me that you lack understanding of proxy camping. I do not want to go in much detail to explain situations where this is useful. that post is simply my suggestion if I was to improve those perks.
All I see are occasions where I can get exhausted for 0 reason - making me have to guard against accidental exhaust. I have 0 idea how this could help in case of proxy-camp. If killer finds me soon enough that he hits me before I unhook - I would need to trade (I will go down) with your version or with current version making it 0 difference at all. If I get speed boost on unhook - it means I can just disappear (or walk it off for very easy hits) and proxy-camping killer will have no choice but to tunnel out unhooked guy. When slugged - I will either have to have buckle up (in which case I don't care if killer hits me) or he does not so I actually want to take hit for my teammate.
So tell me - why would I EVER want to have speed boost when picking someone from ground or when unhooking? All I see is teamplay nerf or perk nerf. There's 0 opportunity where I see it like "yes this change helps" apart from pure luck/RNG when I am being actively chased and someone on other side of map unhooks/pick someone up so that I can gain distance on killer.
So again - why would I ever consider your version a buff? It sounds just about the same as last pharmacy/calm spirit "buff" - and a reason why I would probably stop using the perk.
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In a way yes. Same as stealth builds. But it's still nice thing and way to play in low MMR. Stealth is still part of the game if we omit nowhere to hide and ultimate weapon (possibly also lethal, but lethal is perfectly balanced IMO).
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546355#Comment_3546355
speed boost is not random. your also not forced to use it as you can walk for 10 seconds to avoid using it. same as you do now.
no you can't reliably. If you are already running when it activates, then tough luck. If not - you are forced to walk for 10s (reminds you why sprint burst is actually detrimental in low MMR?).
But I will ask you this way - why would I ever want bg player to activate on heal or on unhook? It makes 0 sense
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@Felgoose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546330#Comment_3546330
My point was about how few people are using it. If it was OP, why wouldn't I be seeing it as often as Fearmonger, Sloppy Butcher, Starstruck, etc.? It sounds to me like it disrupts you particularly when you come across it, but that isn't often enough to build against it, which is a statement that could be a good standard for defining a well balanced perk that adds diversity to the game and disrupts the meta.
Ok. So we can now revert back to on-release Circle of healing? You had shattered hope and still nobody used it. By your standards it was balanced perk
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546114#Comment_3546114
i am not weakening the perk. I am adding more possible functionalities where the perk can activate. the perk retains the ability to be used with flashlight/flashbang/sabo plays. The additional functionalities are that you can use when killer is proxy camping hooks or survivors on the floor to potentially avoid hit/downs.
It does not retain the effect - you will be exhausted when u need it, because you randomly get speed boost when it does nothing. It's a pure nerf. It's a same thing as if IDK pain res randomly activated once gen is finished - you loose token when chances are there's no gen with any progress. Your version is the same principle.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3545865#Comment_3545865
on your first comment, i cannot tell if you are serious or joking. in camping scenario's, you are often forced to take a hit with your health-state then unhook someone only to go immediately down. player refer to this scenario as hook trading. with background player, you can unhook someone and potentially run to a nearby pallet after unhooking someone.
That would suggest bg player would also speed up considerably your unhook speed. Bg player will barely have enough time to activate, it would 100% not have enough time to get you to safety (I am totally sure of this). You need desperate measures for this at which case you don't need bg player (also this combo will make chasing after unhooker less good then after unhooked - bringing back PTB version complaints + ruining flash/sabo intent of the perk, because you will be exhausted for no good reason). And the fact that you ask if I am joking not knowing the timings of such a basic interactions tells me you forgot how survivors even play.
As I said previously - your version is nerf to the perk. It could be buff if you add aditional effects to the perk - at which point I think the perk would do too much. I will gladly take +1s (which is useful for me personally as saboteur and meaningless for everyone else) instead of nerfing this niche perk.
It would make sense to give the perk general buff useful to other survivor playstyles - which would actually raise the usage rate, but at least do not nerf the perk. It's already considered weak so why nerf it even further?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544932#Comment_3544932
both perks should work like this if bvhr is serious about buffing them. who knows, these perk might be healthy perk that promote more fun gameplay.
Background player:
You are not usually the centre of attention and in some cases, this can be a good thing.
When another Survivor is picked up, healed from dying state to injury state or unhooked, Background Player activates for the next 10 seconds:
When you start running, break into a sprint at 150 % of your normal Running Movement speed for 5 seconds.
Furtive chase:
You lurk in the shadows, eliminating your victims one by one.
Each time you hook your obsession, you gain 1 token up to a maximum 2/3/4 tokens.
Reduces your terror radius when not in chase by 4 meter per token.
Whenever the obsession is rescued from a hook, their rescuer will become the new obsession
You can only be obsessed with one Survivor at a time.
for bg player - that's a nerf. I would prefer current version over your version. Why would I want sprint when someone is healed from ground or someone is unhooked? It only causes exhaustion.
as for furtive chase - that would be beneficial effect, but it would become troublesome with conjuction to M&A - some killers would have no TR. Others would get 8m (16m for wesker) radius - Imagine finding a deathslinger when he's literally 2m behind you? Like GF has no TR - but it's 50% of his whole ability - u want that effect for 1-2 perk slots and 4 hooks?