Gandor
Gandor
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@Chiky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556874#Comment_3556874
show which killer is and show SWF are two completely differennt things... Besides, survivors already DC when they face a killer they dont like...You're just asking for a DC penalty removal...
different in WHAT? In a fact you play killer more then survivor? Because I see no difference in lobby shopping it would cause (and specific preparations for going into "tryhard match where 4BNPs are a must")
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@timetodohottakes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556655#Comment_3556655
The pick up is 3 seconds so the extra 2 is only for sabotage after that, it's not a big deal.
well. I do be playing sabotages....
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@Green_Sliche said:
So apparently it's ok to force killers face SWF no matter what and not compensate the presence of 2, 3 or 4 man full-voice party in any way because it's ok for survivors to have that kind of advantage if they want. Meanwhile when survivors don't like a killer or game doesn't go the way they want, they ask to have DC penalty removed because it's no longer fun for them to play and there's AI bot who will stay instead and try to fill in. I'm sure there's a particular word that describes this entire situation.
Show survivors which killer are they going to face. You like playing blight/nurse/wesker/spirit/skull merchant/knight? Enjoy your long queue. And if you don't like it, then "it's ok to force survivors to face OP killers no matter what". So instead of having healthy game, let's ask for clearly unhealthy changes just because it would give benefit to side I currently play.
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I like everything, but I am pretty sure BG player will be way too strong now in this state. Like I already do play the perk in current state, but I am afraid that after this buff they will see it's overperforming and they will then nerf it to really bad version that even I will not want to play. That's the only thing I am afraid of.
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Interesting. I never thought there would be such a difference
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@Chiky said:
Survivor queue for me is already between 5 and 10 minutes, which is ridiculous tbh
What region are you? Because for me it's about 3 minutes or less. EU (most commonly connected to Frankfurt AFAIK)
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IDK. I don't expect any problems with killer players. Incentives are on survivors even during prime time now. That's the direct result of all the changes and "map reworks" and everything else.
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BTW this again. Survivor at 8pm in EU. There won't be any problems any time soon - especially considering map reworks. Because now even during killer-incentive-prime time it swings to survivor
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@ChaseMerchant said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556755#Comment_3556755
It's funny how they want to balance around those killer mains, but tournament level SWF is fine. Hens group finished game under 3 minutes...
Both of these are just not normal gameplay. I think game should be balanced around better half of player base, but not really tournament level players.
Yes. 3 minutes for survivors 2mins for killers. But survivor is OP :)
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556504#Comment_3556504
Blight doesn’t overperform, and he has a lot of useable addons, so either 1) the addons are strong, but Blight is addon dependent, or 2) the addons aren’t as strong as you think they are, and Blight isn’t addon dependent.
This is like how a bunch of people claimed Nurse wasn’t addon dependent, but then her range and recharge addons got removed, and now she’s absolute trash for many players, because it turns out that she was very addon dependent for many people. She still might be very high in tier lists for 6,000+ hour competitive players, but for the majority of players, they’d have a higher win rate with someone else.
And Wesker’s a terrible example for good addons. The fact that I don’t ever see people on these forums complain about his addons, shows that all his addons are kind of weak. We have so many people on these forums that like to over exaggerate about killers or survivors, that when there’s zero complaints of something, then it’s not very good.
And Pyramid head will never be OP, as long as his M2 power is as bad as it currently is. Why would I want to pick a killer whose power is mostly only useful on animation-locked survivors, when I could pick someone like Wesker, whose power is useful even when survivors have full mobility to dodge?
So Blight doesn't overperform and nurse is now trash. Let me name a few names then. Supaalf, LilthOmen, MomoSeventh, Knightlight. Do you really think the killer is so trash? I don't think there are higher winstreaks than these. But Nurse and Blight are bad killers with trash addons... Well. I don't really think so.
The fact that wesker can pick 6 addons and all of them change his playstyle slightly and still leave counterplay (but on the other hand make his power strong to be viable even against best players) makes him actually THE most successfully designed killer. The fact that people don't complain one way or another is ANOTHER reason why he's well designed. In fact people complain just about 2 things with his - that he's too common (because he's so well designed) and that he has too easy tunnel. That's it. That's PERFECT design.
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I think 200% for 5s is just too much. It should have been 4 or maybe even 3s if it's 200% speed. But we will see. My guess is, the perk would need to be adjusted one more time.
Like I don't complain that much - I directly benefit from the change. Except - my niche perk might now become almost meta (it does not really have a chance for full meta as a lot of people just don't like altruistic builds that much).
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@OneAutmLeaf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556565#Comment_3556565
I think its just odd that perks like that exist like if you want to sabo bring toolboxes? want to self care bring medkits, it just seems odd to me that instead of these things being locked to the items (like they should be) that they are given as solo perks making the items pretty much just not worth bringing unless its iri addons.
why "should it be locked behind item"? Also it still makes sense to take both saboteur (for auras) AND toolbox (for speed). Why is it bad to have perk that also allows you slower sabotage? Even with these 2 effects the perk is considered weak. So what's the issue?
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@Venusa said:
The truth is as seen by discussions you make and your responses: you just have a bad game and directly run to forums to ask for nerfs instead of trying to understand how to play against those things you're upset about... That's why I wasn't a fan of discussing with you because the last time I did that (on your topic about Power Struggle), this happened:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/378YAGRT5HSB/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/X6A2GH6ZD9N5/image.png
Then you never responded to me. It's sad that you don't even check, read or know how these perks work but you're here demanding nerfs to them. It would be healthier to try and learn more before making these posts and then "clap back" at anyone who has a disagreement with you. Just like the comment you just left as a respond to me that Mods deleted since it wasn't very nice. I think we can all do better.
And I would add that you should try to play as everything you consider OP. At worst case you can then make more informed post about them. At best case you will understand it's weakness and utilize it in your games - making the thing you complained about "perfectly fine".
This applies to both sides equally (but sure - it's not always possible)
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556559#Comment_3556559
As for the Blood Pact thing, if it only works while the other person is on hook, and when you run in their direction, that means it does only apply the speed bonus around half the loop, when you in fact run in their direction, I don't see how that is a buff?
Ok. Then I have to correct myself - it takes trash perk and make it even worse for no apparent reason. That's like asking to nerf bloodhound. Like. WHY?
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Sure. Unsportsmanlike players in this game are especially bad. I don't know why, but they feel even worse in DBD then in other games. Might be because of asymmetrical nature of this game. And killers have it extra bad as usually it's 4 survivors vs 1 killer in endgame.
But having nasty survivors is not a reason to "delete" perks. The perk is already a little bit on a weak side as is (sure, it's not super bad, but it's nowhere near meta by any stretch)
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This one is soooooooo absolutely weeeeeeiiiiiiiiiird.
Better than new and Blood Pact are in fact horrible perks as they are. Teamwork perks being same kind of a perk like bloodpack being also very rarely used because they are that bad.
borrowed time is IMO very healthy perk that is also not really worth it - that's why you basically never see it equipped by pretty much anyone.
Boons got all gutted and they all provide niche value at best. That's why they also are barely used outside of specific builds with SWF survivors.
Breakout is just a free perk slot cost for killer to (partially) counter how much basekit distance between hooks got shrinked. Sabotages are still super hard compared to flashlight saves.
Also your category basically throws away a bunch of altruistic perks like "we will make it" and so many more - making the game quite frankly dull experience.
Now going at your suggestion:
your version of blood pact is INSANE buff. BP is actually trash-tier perk. Your version means whenever I am running at direction of my savior I get 5% speed boost - that's MUCH more valuable, because I don't have to loop with my teammate = I can actually use windows and pallets and I can react to killer's mindgames. Like I don't think this would be meta - but at minimum this would be WAY better perk for survivors.
Empathetic connection would become empathy. Like there would basically be no real difference (I guess distance vs speed boost).
Your BT would be absolutely beyond trash-tier. Because it would screw you over about as often as it would help you, but it would leave you with less control.
BTN - self caring is complicated on it's own. You can't self-heal without medkit or perk self care right now. That's too constraining for another perk.
Another thing about 4v1 comment - perk strength is not the same 4*1/4th is the same as 1*1. Killers have perks that work on all 4 survivors while survivors have perks that work on themselves, or they are weak/situational enough to be just fine. Take boons - like they DO work for all 4 survivors, but considering time investment, limited range and actually meh effects they currently have... There's no wonder people don't really use them very much
Overall I am not a fan of anything in this thread
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556042#Comment_3556042
If everyone is trying to sabo hooks they are not doing gens. Slug them all. Yes, you can slug. They can only use unbreakable once each.
yes this.
@OneAutmLeaf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556192#Comment_3556192
bad thing is they were running background player...
Makes sense. BG player is very good support perk for sabotages. But again that's YET ANOTHER perk slot. Which means that they can't be using say boil over. As I said before - they can prolong the game (considerably), but by doing this they should be loosing. If that ain't so, they would be winning much more with "standard" chase/genrush build for much much much quicker game
@adaw0ng said:
They said MFT is getting nerfed so now a new target must arise ASAP it seems.
No. This will not be a case for this specific perk. It's weak enough so that most people will not mind it. It's bound to happen only after rare bad game against it and even rarer thread here. It absolutely won't be spammed like MfT is right now. I can guarantee it (provided devs will not make a huge buff to saboteur - but given their tendencies with map reworks and ever-raising hook density - that will just not happen)
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556508#Comment_3556508
You know what happens on the rare occasion I'm offered a sacrifice? The Survivor will just run around the map and let the Entity eat them.
Well I absolutely don't do that. I respect killer's time - if he does not wish to take the kill, then I escape. There's no need to force my kill on him
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/393183/losing-as-killer-needs-to-feel-less-awful
I agree. I play both roles and I never behave that way as a Survivor. A couple weeks ago my friend and I, plus 2 randoms beat a high Prestige Wesker using a Mori and 2 Iridescent add-ons. He had run a Terrormisu as did my friend and I. With 3 of those and him playing far nicer than he had to (no camping, no tunnelling) I offered myself as his only sacrifice after the gates were open. I'm not suggesting anyone go that far but be grateful the killer gave you a fun match. If it weren't for killers, there literally wouldn't be a game.
In my experience players like this don't take the free offered kill. I have done the same thing multiple times (especially against Billy - somehow these players are usually THE most wholesome players in game - not camping, not tunneling, playing for fun and making sure to play for more interactions). Those are usually best matches no matter the outcome (but it's extra nice if said Billy is strong enough to pull off victory in this case).
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556445#Comment_3556445
The difference between Blight, and many other killers, is that Blight actually has a wide variety of useable addons, so he doesn’t have “super overperforming addons” like other killers did.
I’ve seen streamers rotate between 8 of Blight’s addons, which is huge compared to most other killers. Compare this to Nurse, where her range and recharge addons were massively overpicked and overperforming over everything else. Or Spirit, where every streamer that wanted to winstreak literally was just spamming MDR + amulet, and that’s it.
When a killer has so many good addons, it should be seen as a success from a game design perspective.
I agree with everything, but your conclusion. In my eyes what you are saying is - that if every perk was old DH (usable for distance), then that would have been success. Like instead of nerfing old DH, devs should have made it compete with OG mettle of man, OG DS and OG Object of obsession and that would have been success.
Well I very much disagree. From my point of view - blight is failure because of this. Like if say Freddy had 8 great addons, that would make it a little bad as he would be addon dependant, but it would be mostly fine. But giving very strong basekit killer like blight so many great addons is WEIRD to say the least and in my opinion it's even weirder to call it success.
Don't get me wrong - I want addons to be actually useful instead of just taking up space in bloodweb - that's why I think Pyramidhead and again Freddy should get addon pass. But we could get to same situation with Pyramidhead here too - very strong but still fair basekit ability that could be just too OP should he get a lot of insane addons - on the other hand leaving him without any good addons is also not a good idea. But to actually reflect on my wishes - best example of strong killer with good addons is Wesker - he has very strong basekit and almost all addons that do something meaningful and yet none that would make him "unbeatable". I want every killer to be Wesker in this regards.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556454#Comment_3556454
Probably he is referring to this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJzHtMewYS0
And it is only me, or you guys are treating him like he was Voldemort or something?
thank you
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@Emeal said:
How will your face look when the Killer 4Gens your team then?
There are very few maps that allow this. But sure enough - Azarov's is one of them. At that point I would call it map issue rather then 3gen issue.
One other note is - I consider the whole solution a bit unfair. I think it's only fair for survivors to have hard time if they don't care about which gen they are repairing. Whole thing about 3gens is to fix cases where killer can decide to not care about some gens and just patrol his 3 (or 4) gen from the start and this should be fixed. But on the other hand if survivors fix all the edge-map gens and leave gens that are close together - then it's perfectly fair for them to reap the problems they themselves created
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556119#Comment_3556119
I was on the PTB.
So I guess you are one of those Bubba, Trapper or Hag people who camp basement?
I suggest you watch some of the footage of one of the most famous Basement Bubba content creators showing that he could still camp basement without issurs
I would be interested in that video. Would you mind at least advertising his name so I can find him? (I am not that lazy to ask you to link the video directly here) :)
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@Mandy said:
I'll clear up a few things here, we didn't announce a nerf to Blight - if you're referring to our AMA answers, the question was specifically about Blights addons. And we did say we do not have a planned date for these to go Live, these are not necessarily nerfs either.
That's sad to read. I agree blight's power does not need to be changed, but his addons should be strictly nerfed - at least those that are considered OP by most people. Sure you can also buff some of his weak/underused addons too. But overall in my opinion his addons should not make such a significant difference as they do right now.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556414#Comment_3556414
But you can see other survivor when you get downed, right?
I would just take killer to that second survivor...
I often give survivor option to do this. Snitches get hatches.
Yes. I mentioned that already. That's the "teaming with killer ban" option (but I have to admit after a long time and quite a few chases this was the solution I went for - because I didn't want to DC and I didn't want to wait for server shut down either - and I am admitting this on this forum as a feedback to devs that this should also be taken into account and making explicit rule's exception about this one would be very welcome).
Still the end game chat was full of 3way complaints between each other, because none of the 3 remaining players were happy about that game.
And TBF I don't even really remember if I got hatch as a result of that one and I can't be bothered about it either. The game was very traumatizing at that point and I couldn't care less if I escaped or not.
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I think 10 minutes should be long enough holding any 3gen (it should be long enough to finish whole game in that time). The question is, what is the time when you should start to time 3gen camping? This could be problematic as 10 minutes in game is just not enough. Another thing is, that this can be abused - "just let killer start to camp 3gen and let's go hang out on the other side of map for 10 mins for easy game".
For these reason maybe make it killer can kick any gen 10x should be enough? If we are generous do not count 1st kick after hook (to always allow applying POP). That should do the trick. 10 kicks is quite a generous number and in most games killer will not kick same gen more then 2-3 times and chances are all of those 2-3 times will be to apply only pop anyway.
Spawning new gen on the other side seems to be too cruel. Like having loose 3gen is absolutely playable. Having gens on the other side of map is gg for killer and free win for survivor (killer just got time for 1 last chase and then it's "guaranteed" endgame). I don't like that option that much.
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boons are already "bad" (not trash-tier, but none of them is even close to being meta). I see 0 reason to nerf them even further.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556208#Comment_3556208
Why didn't second survivor finished gens?
When killer picks you up and down, you are going to wiggle out automatically. So just get a chase for hatch when other survivor leaves / bleeds out if on ground.
Only thing that this can happen is when killer blocks you in corner as last survivor remaining, which is holding hostage and you can report for this.
Otherwise survivors can do some, so of your suggestion is go afk, it works too.
Last two survivors remaining, both hiding waiting for hatch...
I said it few times before, just give free leave / give up button after 30 min game. You just know something went wrong there, if players want to play it out, they can...
because soloQ and because you can't influence the other survivor. If he is hiding and killer is unable to find him and instead focuses you, then you are screwed. Especially if it happens on some map that has no resources after some time (the game would be best example, but my case was on saloon). But even that does not matter - because if killer is not looking for the other survivor and the other one is hiding, then you can loop for an hour until game shuts down but it does not help you getting out of such game anyway.
Anyway your "give up" button would 100% work. I would be happier if it appeared after 20 mins instead of 30, but it would totally solve the problem
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Killer can hold survivor in game for 30+ mins if he decides to. It did happen to me. Repeated pick up and down again on empty map 2 survivors left. You can go afk, but it means he can hold you that way in game until server shut down.
Now as killer if you go into corner and look to a wall, survivors have nothing to do. There are 4 of them and if just 1 decides to go out, then EGC starts. Meaning realistically you can be held hostage as survivor longer then killer with literally nothing but DC (or ratting out teammate for possibility of ban because "teaming up with killer") or actively trying to maximize downed time by wiggling out and immediatelly working on gen to killer's face which still takes about 30 minutes
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I agree red forest is one of the better maps for sabotages. I disagree it's impossible to hook there. You have to pick 1 of 3 readily available hooks (it can be 1 of 6 in central area) that sabotaging survivor is hiding next to and he had to make you come to that hook anyway (so he hid well) and mother's dwelling has most hooks that can be sabotaged only from front side - giving excellent visibility to killer (provided hook killer picked is not behind terain) for him to decide to go other hook.
If even after said survivor outplayed you like this you ask to be able to make it to next hook - then I don't know what to tell you - it's like asking to be able to heal while running and in chase = sounds reasonable only if you play one side.
If you have full squad of people, that bring sabo build and actively try to make you not hook, then they don't work on gens. This is important, because so long as someone is trying sabotages it means someone is bleeding out and nobody is working on gens. This is big, because you can abuse altruism like this. Hitting them repeatedly means you are slowly winning. Sure you will have less hooks and the game will take longer, but it's still killer's win overall (provided chases are not too long to annulate everything + giving time for survivors to work on gens but in this case they would win even without sabo)
If they have unbreakable, then they can use it once (so next time he will just continue to bleed). But they need multiple people around killer or they can't guarantee sabo play (giving killer free bleeding out time). It's much more sensible to bring exponential rather then unbreakable in these cases, but if killer finds it, then the perk is meaningless.
If they have flip-flop power struggle and unbreakable, they can't have saboteur and boil over and means to heal.
If they have sabo toolboxes, they don't have medkits.
The point is, that they can't have everything. Survivors also have just 4 perk slots. There's always something you can do and slugging even if they have unbreakable is not automatically a bad idea.
As for your timing with just saboteur - leader, mattle of man, or combo of both resilience+spine chill (which is too big investment considering saboteur as well) and this last one is still veeeery tight.
One last thing. 4-man sabo squad is really not efficient way to go. 2 flashlights and 2 saboes is infinitelly better, because you can't just immediatelly pick up. That's huge for positioning of saboteurs = if you are actually quick enough, sabotages don't really work. They need some setup - and if you are moving quickly around the map during chase, it's more about survivor's luck to sabotage... provided they don't have means to slow you down (and this is why I say 4-man sabo is inferior to 2+2).
What actually happens is, that a group of 4 people with many hours probably got together and played bunch of games. They most likely lost a bunch of them (which is usually ok, because in these 4-mans nobody can be turbo-tunneled out and everybody gets to play the game for some time so loosing is often times not that bad - but it's 3-4k regardless) and after some time MMR decided to give them you...
Like you never see sabotages in comp scene. There's very good reason for that. Sabotages can be perfectly countered. It's much easier then even flashlight. But same as with flashlight, it can be frustrating for killer if each survivors have many multiples of hours played compared to killer. But once again, with a bit of observation, experience and tactics sabo squads are easy to deal with (but the game will last significantly longer then normal).
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@OneAutmLeaf said:
just went agaist a team took me to mothers dwelling which you all know how spread out the map is, they brought 3 sabo toolboxes and 3 sabo perks..... why in gods name does the perk sabotage faster then the toolbox? you hit them once and they can still sabo the fking hook in time, like what? for all i see about survivors saying the slugging playstyle is unfun to play against what else are you going to do against a sabo squad who wont even let you get one ######### hook?
please for the love of god at least make the sabo perk the same duration as toolbox which would be 2.5 seconds not 2.3 so if they want to sabo in your face they cant but it needs to actually be a plan not a run infront of killer and drop the hook while he is in recovery animation.... how are people ok with this perk, by itself when one person brings it is fine but running against 4 of them WITH sabo toolboxes damn near makes me want to unistall this game, Im not a fan of slugging Id rather just chase them but what else can I do against that bs?
you clearly don't know what it all entrails to do successful sabotage, so let me clarify things for you (as a player with way over 1000 hours using specifically saboteur + I have also a lot of killer and other gameplay). My guess is you had a bad game and directly came here to ask for nerf instead of trying to understand how to play (as and against) sabotages.
1, saboteur can't ever sabotage hook quick enough for survivor to get away in time. Right now the best you can pull of with saboteur alone - provided you have PERFECT timing is destroying the hook for a down (forced exchange). This is the reason why you saw those survivors with toolboxes. Double speed alexis toolbox will give you just enough time to pull that off - provided killer does not counter it by better positioning.
2, perks do change these interactions - leader makes you quick enough to escape even with just saboteur, however leader does not work on a person that brought it. It needs other survivor to come fairly close and leave sabotaging survivor late enough (lingering 15s is usually long enough, but it does not necessarily have to). On the other hand STBFL or thana change it the other way around - with just saboteur you will not finish sabotage - with quick toolbox, you get at best exchange and if thana/STBFL is fully stacked not even that.
3, description writes that it's 2.3s but that's not true. For some reason you don't start to sabotage right away as you click it. Real time is somewhere around 2.7s or 2.8s (can't tell precisely as I don't have it measured frame by frame - it used to be 3s before the buff when description said it's 2.5s - I have video evidence for that one with frame counter - the important thing is that the time is just enough to exchange on hook with perfect timing - so it's somewhere around 2.7s = time it takes for killer to hit again).
4, hooks. Depending on map you played on, it's absolutely and exclusively on you. There are no more "good sabotage maps". There are still maps that have consistent spots where there are less hooks (swamps edge map usually have 1 or 2 hooks within carry distance, badham's bottom of main leaves 1-2 hooks in carry distance if killer broke breakable walls and basement is in shack). On the other hand getting successful sabotage on saloon is final boss achievement. Getting successful sabo on new Rancid abbatoir means only 3 people were taking hits for the 4th one while people also sabotaged and there's no way around that one. With map reworks hook density is only growing and sabotaging is harder and harder.
5, there are many perks that outright destroy sabotages or at least counter it to some degree. Sabotages are really hard. Try it. And see what happens if killer brings just and only agitation (but there are a lot of perks that make sabotages WAY WAY WAY harder).
6, if you see survivor near hook, you can just decide to go for other one. This one absolutely counters sabotages + survivors wasted a lot of precious time only for you to get to chase quicker.
7, saboteur is not even that good of a perk. Check it's usage rate. It's usage rate is not even 3%. And it will probably go down considering map reworks (and hook density). You already don't get a lot of value if you don't compound it with breakout + some way to heal yourself (at minimum being SWF). Now compare it to flashlights - you just hide in a correct spot and blind the killer. That means you don't have to bodyblock or take hits for easy rescue + more distance + more utility. And even flashlights are considered weaker item from the lot of them.
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IDK. Day before yesterday I had 50% incentives for survivor. At 7pm. That's peak of prime time for survivors. Usually it's survivor incentives here in EU for most of the day but during prime time it swaps to killer incentives.
Also - map reworks most definitely favor ONLY killers. I don't even consider upcoming changes any-sided (it will buff my killer, because I don't camp and easier map is just easier. But sure enough some killers do camp and they will have to learn the game instead).
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@Hanuka5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3555313#Comment_3555313
Woulndt that be Awakened Awareness with extra steps??
not really. If you give correct numbers, then both of them would have their niche. Hangman's would guarantee you see every survivor that could possibly attempt sabotage so you can pick another hook instead while AA gives you info about anyone that comes close to you.
Sure there's an overlap in those, but there are some cases where you discover sabotaging survivor too late (very rare given how dense hooks are on most maps) with just AA and on the other hand you could see a survivor that you would not see otherwise, because you decided to go for a different hook.
The key would be in picking correct number and lingering time (yet given how sabo is already too hard (so niche), I don't think the perk will ever be good given it's theme).
@Akumakaji said:
It's called hangman's trick, how about it gave a sabotaging attempt a surprise hard skill check? I know that sabotaging is already really hard to pull off and that it's timer is really tedious (there were quite some sabo tome challenges of late, so I know), but this could be a nice way to throw a survivor off. The first time I jump on an Overcharged gen I nearly always are knocked out cold by the surprise skill check, later I am prepared, but still occasionally fumble.
Saboing isn't exactly a regular problem, but we actually have no dedicates perk to deal with it. STBFL sorta shuts it's down, but more by accident, not as a main feature. Just increasing the sabo time would be bonkers, since the timing is already very tight, so a hard skill check seems to be the best.
There are multiple counters. Hard counters like iron grasp/agi were mentioned. But there are also a lot of different soft counters - best one being starstruck, but you can also use mad grit, STBFL, hangman's, awakened awareness, infectious fright or thana.
@Hanuka5 said:
It would also nice to add the effect:
"Scourge hooks do not break when a hooked Survivor is sacrificed or a Survivor using Breakdown is unhooked"
Its not a big buff but fits in the idea of the discription
But i think also good idea would it to just merge Hangman's Trick with Gift of Pain or Monstrous Shrine
I don't think it's good idea to buff "trash perk" by making it direct counter to another "trash perk". Both of those perk basically should get buff because both of them are useless (sure - breakdown is a bit better - you can get some limited value out of it if 4 survivors make build around it, but that still does not make it good or even ok perk).
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Oh. We are talking about dragging down that basically guarantees hits from above obstacles? Well yes. That's super strong thing he can do (but I feel they nerfed this one - which was IMO not really needed given CD revert). But it 100% was a thing and I was using it and it does not really work in current patch (or at least it works much worse)
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@CatnipLove said:
Changing Blight is likely very complicated. He's probably the most technical killer in the game, so if they bodge it, the result could be catastrophic.
The add-ons nerfs aren't exactly rocket science though.
He needs just addons change and that's it IMO.
That being said - I don't believe he's the most technical killer. There are other more technical killers in game (with worse results) that are more complex IMO (but sure blight is very very high in the ladder)
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533147#Comment_3533147
I've still seen zero evidence that dragging Xeno's tail attack causes it to curve. Any attack I've seen done by tail dragging, looks like it could have been done without the tail dragging.
I never talked about curving. I spoke about being able to hit someone if there's anything visible from survivor body (in specific cases and injured person u don't even need to see anything).
Anyway, after CD change Xeno is fine. In fact, they spoiled his hitboxes a bit making him just a tiny bit underwhelming (but I don't expect them to change it - wesker's tunnel potential with infection is the only problem with the killer and it seems they aren't going to address that one too).
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554585#Comment_3554585
It might be better to fix triggers than just increase time. You might get into situation, when it takes too long and I will just get there to face camp you into second stage easily and then tunnel you.
I basically agree. But that's a lot trickier as it's hard to define those trigger conditions correctly. But I basically agree - if done right, that's also way to go
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@WilliamSN said:
Alternatively, punish the "hider" because he had 4 minutes to pick you up while the killer was patrolling and refused to do so.
This is effectively griefing / Unsportsman conduct.
This whole spiel of "Killers are bad for attempting to do their inherent goal of killing everyone in the best possible way" is quite honestly one of the most entitled takes of the community.
who said it has to be survivor who is hiding? I've seen many cases where killers camped "dead body". Also killer has easy way out by just hooking (but it's true that by doing so he allows hatch play to be made).
It's just unfun situation to be in - definitely for slugged survivor at minimum.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554569#Comment_3554569
Basement is completely useless because of this for example, which is kinda big deal. You can't hook more than one survivor there, you can't defend it either.
Midwitch is going to be hell too.
This system basically remove a lot of snowball potencial for most killers. Even when survivors screw it and get downed next to hooked survivor, there is not much killer can do with it.
Only option killer is going to have is tunnel when this system triggers, because it removed a lot of pressure he had and tunnel is best way how to get it back.
Any survivor who used Deliverance knows how big deal this is.
Well. Then you are right killer has too strict timing. But giving him more time should fix that IMO. Or did I miss something more? Usually it does not take 30+s to get to/from basement so I don't see anything wrong provided the timing is more liberal for killers
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Well I know I would at least try it on some killers.
If damaging generator/breakable wall/pallet would work in any way (IDK current version - it's meme right now as you correctly pointed out so I didn't experiment enough) then my version might be strong on a few killers that can shred thru pallets very quickly (namely singularity, bubba, demogorgon, nemesis, wraith w addons, possibly also Billy, wesker w iri addon, or Legion w iri addon).
It could be pretty good experience for killer while still leaving at least something (weak) for survivor (even if that something would be quite hard/bad). The perk would also negate hold-W as 15s 10% speed is 6m distance cut out (or full sprint burst distance) + it currently has no CD. IDK. For some specific killers it might actually be meta as I am thinking about it.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554566#Comment_3554566
I would take enduring + spirit fury over this any day tho.
This would be better only with Rancor. This really wouldn't be fun meta combination for survivors. They would start to miss NOED.
But it's just too killer specific thing for this to be meta. You have only few killers where it's viable. Kinda like Rapid brutality + STBFL.
Enduring + spirit fury is 2 perk slots wasted. This is just one + it still gives you possible synergy with other obsession perks. Do you really think there would be no niche for such a game afoot?
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554176#Comment_3554176
Shouldn't fix for this be rework problematic area of the map?
Implementing flawed system should definitely not be the solution... That will simply do more damage than actual fixing.
Like really, how do you expect killer react when they get screwed by this system? Short term answer is to take frustration on that survivor, tunnel or bleed them out. Long term solution is stop playing.
but is it that bad? I have to admit I didn't play this PTB so I don't really know specific implementation (but I saw videos and it looked fine on a first look - but sure I can be wrong).
But if you time it correctly and give some leeway for killer "to be allowed to camp for a short time" (which IMO is perfectly fine - securing hook stage and checking if survivors are hiding next to a hook is perfectly valid - problem is if killer facecamps for a full hook stage without ever leaving said survivor), then I see absolutely no problem with keeping everything the way it is (again - provided killer has enough time/leeway to be close to hook for any reason).
And to answer your last sentence - same way as survivors have to deal with getting facecamped by bubba to death. It really sucks, but you'll get over it (also as I said before - it should in practice have enough time-buffer to gently tell you, that you indeed facecamped)
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554556#Comment_3554556
Adrenaline is definitely a reliable perk...
Unbreakable require specific action from killer, but effect is simply worth it.
Game afoot is currently meme perk to use with Rancor. I definitely wouldn't make obsession transfer so easy, it wouldn't be fun playing end game against this with No way Out. I have used to for killing obsession challenges.
Even doubling second part wouldn't bring it to meta, but it would be definitely more viable.
adrenaline is absolutely not reliable. It does nothing if: you die for any reason before gens are completed, if you are not in chase. If you go down as the last gen pops. If last gen pops as killer carries you and killer drops you to check for it. If you are already healthy and not in chase.
Like don't get me wrong. Speed boost and extra health state can make the game. It's very strong. But it's quite likely the perk will give you no/very limited value instead.
Last thing - I agree game afoot is meme right now. But I presume you underestimate what would +10% speed for 15s do when you destroy pallet (ideally with brutal strength but it's not required) in chase - while faking leaving it be (so that survivor crosses path next to said pallet loosing distance). That can create a very good chance for a hit. It could become good M1-killer perk on it's own even without any synergy (but I presume you are right it would not be meta - same as say balanced landing is not meta but still a strong perk).
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554531#Comment_3554531
How is this perk even close or comparable to adrenaline/Unbreakable?
it isn't. That's why I am all for buffing it (and almost doubling all it's numbers for secondary effect is IMO quite a hefty buff. Am I wrong?). Also - I was trying to make a point that having something unreliable does not mean it's bad (if the upside is good enough).
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554516#Comment_3554516
nemesis can trigger on healthy survivors. gameafoot requires a hit so it only works on 2nd part of the chase while other perk has potencial to work on first part of chase.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554546#Comment_3554546
given that big portion of the games are adrenaline and MFT+hope, Rancor helps killer in late game which is much appreciated with survivor perks strength of survivor end game. rancor is not effective too much by gameafoot drawbacks inconsistency mainly because you are often chasing the obsession in the end game and the mori has high enough impact that first mori into second mori is already strong enough that you do not need multiple obsession swaps for that synergy to be effective.
yes and nemesis does nothing if survivors pre-drop. In my experience depending on what you are trying to achieve game afoot is already better at swapping obsession (not always - both have their niche).
Actually talking about those 2... I think both of them could use buff in their secondary effect
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554516#Comment_3554516
2nd effect cannot trigger if first effect is not consistent.
which is fine if 2nd effect is strong enough (see perks like unbreakable or adrenaline). I would double it's speed bonus. Maybe even prolong the effect a little to compound it (which can basically convert breaking pallets into hits with a little mind game - a much stronger effect than just loosing a little less distance after pallet break)
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No. I don't think it would be OP. But I think it would synergize with PWYF a little bit too much.
The perk could use a small buff, but I would actually rather go for 2nd effect instead - that way it does not monopolize the market of "changing obsession" perks (making Nemesis obsolete)
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554251#Comment_3554251
But MMR measures "skill" (because we all know that a survivor that looped the killer for 5 gens has the same skill as a survivor that hided all the game in a locker and only appeared to go through the exit gates, of course... no body is saying that the system is perfect) and I think we can agree that having the hatch spawning at your feet so you can escape for the exact sames rewards than completing all gens and going through the exit gate doesn't require a lot of it. That's the difference.
And no, I don't have any ideas that doesn't imply changing base functionality and how the game works along with it. Yet again, I'm not a game designer payed by BHVR to come up with one 🤣
That is true. But that's how the game and win condition is defined.
I don't know how to fix it too. So until I see/hear any better solution then hatch for last player, I would not be OK with just removing it. Because I play killer too and boring match is the worst..
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554257#Comment_3554257
Yes and guess what happens if he does that... the team loses because of the forced 3 v 1 at 5 gens and the selfish survivor gets the hatch pity escape....
Thanks for proving my point that DBD is a team game.
And some players play for that (and developers support it by having those perks in game). And actually you don't have to just go out via hatch. You can sole-survivor quickly open gate right as hatch gets closed.