Gandor
Gandor
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Ok. So I went to new suffocation pit. Now I fully understand why the perk won't be problem. I swear devs want to remove sabotages from the game altogether. Like why do you even bother buffing sabotage perks when you add hook for every 8m? What's the point? To bait survivors into thinking that sabotages can be done? I am so done with this BS
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I don't think it's a good idea. We are finally moving away from getting reward for going back to hook (even pre-emptively). Why would we ever want to go back? As for both grabbing and AFC - if you find survivor before he's right next to a hook, you can get a down even before he can unhook. That's fine and healthy.
Staying next to hook and getting down without ever having unhooked person (which probably means next hook state for free on top of that) because your internet lagged in a certain way? WHY? That's just awful.
Sounds a bit of an argument like - now that survivor-favoring maps were changed to favor killers instead maybe it's time to bring back old hatch system - like why? Why do we want to have unfair crutch things back in game?
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@xltechno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559580#Comment_3559580
Even if communication is not possible, who has which park, are they highly conscious of power generation, are they good at chasing, and are they proactive in rescuing their allies?
Just by guessing them, SWF is getting a huge boost. Just don't forget that.
Regardless, I agree that the disparity in player skill in matching is a problem.
If I am playing in SWF where I don't use voice comms, I don't know other people's builds half the time. And I quite frankly don't care. It's the fact that I am matches with 3 other people that are comparatively about as good as me, are willing to help and don't play selfishly, don't do challenges that are outright throwing or don't suicide on 1st hook is enough.
Basically all I really want is to be consistently matched with good soloQ teammates and that's it. That is enough to have enjoyable game as survivor. But you almost never ever get those. This is the main reason I never play soloQ. I won't play 10 games just so that I can have 1 normal game where the match is actually interesting (and I am not even saying that it's a match where I will win). I don't care that I get 3 free escapes (and 6 deaths where there's nothing you could have done) because thanks to matchmaking I got total potato killer from time to time - those matches are just as boring. I want games where killer decides to tunnel (which is perfectly normal these days), but my teammates don't shrug it off and actively try to do something about it instead of giving up on hook as soon as possible.
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@Skillfulstone said:
I'm honestly surprised that it's the hindered effect and not the Killer Instinct upon spraying that's bothering you.
If the Wesker chased you for so long that you ended up fully infected, then either he was toying with you or he was very bad. And if during all that time 0 gens were done then it's really on your team. If the Wesker campd and tunnelled you off the hook and you had enough time to get fully infected again then I honestly don't know who the hell you're facing.
If the infection post-hook was halted or slowed down until a conspicuous action was taken it would be completely fine.
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559336#Comment_3559336
It’s not “seconds later”. You’re massively exaggerating how quickly the infection bar fills up.
It is seconds later. There's an addon called VCR + a lot of weskers (at least those that go into match with hard-tunnel in mind) will proxy-camp so that they can hit you with M2 during your BT (before you have any possibility to hide or get anywhere). I don't know the exact math, but I would presume it's like 20s to full infection. Once you are fully infected the chase will end within 10s if this Wesker is not terribly bad. Overall these Weskers usually end up in 3v1 at 5-3 gens left
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@xltechno said:
Being a soloQ is not that big of a problem, in fact, HUD has made a huge contribution to preventing that from happening.
The problem is that the overall level of survivors is very low. to the point where AFC is necessary.
And due to the oversupply of survivors and the explosion of SWFs, the number of matches between people with different skills has increased.
If soroQs who can see the HUD like a map rather than a code gather together, being soroQ will not be a problem at all.
Problem with soloQ is totally in matchmaking. Whenever you play soloQ, you will most definitely get at least 1 survivor who will be clueless or outright throwing - that means killer will just tunnel them out at 5 gens and from this point on, you can be Ayrun himself and still loose the game. This presumes your soloQ teammates do not decide to give up on hook after 1st chase or don't decide to leave you on hook.
I really don't consider communication the important thing about SWF. The actual important thing is circumventing outright horrible matchmaking this game has. About half of my SWF games are without communication and there's not a big difference between the 2 (like sure communication helps, but it's so negligible in comparison).
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559545#Comment_3559545
your change don't sound to bad if im being honest. The 90 seconds definitely wouldn't work tho in my opinion. oppression, trail of torment, etc a good effect just doesn't outweigh a massive cooldown.
There are perks with long cooldown that do work (like dragon's grip - it's not meta by any definition, but it's still good perk). Still - if seeing/blinding everyone around locker works, then that should actually be enough
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559506#Comment_3559506
90 seconds will make this perk hot garbage tho.
Lethal is 1-time usage and provides you very similar information (where everyone is at start) - the difference is, that UW gives the information for shorter time and requires you to open locker, but allows you to use it also later in trial. Not to forget that it can't be countered by standard aura-blocking perk that was meta.
On top of it all it has blindness just slapped onto it - and better blindness then what you get from most of the killer addons that causes blindness - this blindness is actually very usable especially against survivor's meta perk (windows of opportunity).
90s cooldown is still IMO too lenient. I personally would go at it in a different way - keep 30s cooldown, but have the perk active for less then 1s - that way you can find (and blind) everyone in close vicinity of locker you decide to open, but you don't get map-wide information about every single survivor whenever you want.
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Well... I stopped playing soloQ because of this after patch 6.1. I played maybe like 10 soloQ games since, because the experience is just that bad. It's either SWF or killer. Because soloQ is just too much to handle and enjoy myself.
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WGLF was bad even before buckle up change. Now it's bad AND obsolete. Main reason to take WGLF was BP. Now that it's gone the perk has no meaning
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There will be request for yet another and another generator slowdown until kill rates go above 80% (and even then low-mmr killers would not be satisfied). The game used to have 60s per generator and BNP used to outright fix single gen. But now gens fly like never before? Please just stop it with permanent gen slowdowns
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Once you know how to play around boil over/sabotages, then you will start to consider the perk wasted perk slot. I never ever slug survivors with boil over and they super rarely get any value out of this perk, because there are always things you can do.
1, immediate drop as I already said
2, knowing hook spawns on maps (to counter aura aspect)
3, learning the rhythm of wiggling (you can look left right in opposite to wiggle speed greatly reducing any effect it has)
4, once in a blue moon where this could still pose problems (namely ironworks main - and I think this is the only case where perk has truly some value) - you can drop survivors into fall - staggering them for very quick catch-up.
If you fail to do these, you can always slug. But you really don't have to
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I presume you are talking about Disturbed ward, because there's no way you are talking about chapel. In this case all I can say to you is a small reminder, that boil over adds wiggle progress based on current progress - so you actually can (and should) drop even if survivor has this perk. You just should do that quickly. This way you shouldn't have problem getting into closest hook no matter where in the main did these survivor decide to go down (as disturb ward's main has many places where you can drop down instead of just using stairs).
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559048#Comment_3559048
Yes I mean some maps would have close spawns together but since you don't need to do all the totems to get rid of hex effects it should still be fine... It is more about the time investment, because let's be honest running around the map for 3 minutes trying to find a totem is just boring.
that sounds reasonable. I would probably like your idea if it got implemented (but sure devil is in details and perk adjustments would absolutely have to happen so it depends)
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559041#Comment_3559041
I don't necessarily think the maps would need to be readjusted for my idea, since the maps have more possible totem spawns than totems, so there would just spawn some more. As for boons yes maybe, but you could also just add something like shrines 3-4 on each map that could give boon effects. But overall it is not a small thing but a rather big update, but I really do think it is time for some new game mechanics...
Suppose the number increases to 10 - that would basically mean all or almost all the totem spawns in maps like saloon will be used. In some cases totems would be very close to each other (1 in windmill and another one behind the rock next to road that's closest to windmill). No I think we would need way more totem spawns to mitigate problem of totems not being random at all but fixed position instead.
Overall it might be worth a shot. I just don't know if it's really feasible as it would be a lot lot of work.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558321#Comment_3558321
Make my life miserable as killer? Oh no, you're replying to the wrong person, because I don't use hooks to kill
Even those that play "normally" probably won't mind too much, even with the buff it's still going to be too niche, as it's a purely altruistic perk, and those don't tend to be meta
well... All I can say is we will see.
If your point of view will be shared by whole community, then that's all the better for me. It's just that I doubt it.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558487#Comment_3558487
- Fair with Pentimento, but I think in general you would only cleanse AFTER 3-4 gens are done in case a Killer turbo-tunnels, so this wouldn't hurt normal gameplay too much.
- I think the kill rates already 'assume' 1k minimum, that's why they target 60% (as endgame facecamps done correctly always will result in a kill). If the Kill is already gotten, basekit NOED won't spawn in endgame anyways as I suggest it. If BHVR's 60% isn't based around the concept of a rough 1k minimum, then I think this point is fair.
- I think you mean crutch, but yeah, I would want the dumb fun party game to have comeback mechanics for both sides in order to minimize the entirely negative experiences. I wouldn't consider this a free kill, because if the Survivors were dominating a Killer so harshly as to reach endgame without a death, they can easily have the time to cleanse 5 totems as well. If the Killer gets a kill, they don't get basekit NOED, nor does it function while anyone isn't standing. Did you not read the full rules for my proposed version? I laid them out quite cleanly at the end, and a preface in the opening paragraph mentioning the details were found below. Just as 6.1.0 basekitted T1 Brutal Strength and 2 stacks of STBFL, this would basekit a lesser version of proper full on perk NOED.
- I don't disagree that soloq needs help, but baby Killers need love too. I encourage soloq buffs as well, and buffs to the bottom 90% of perks for both sides, so I don't see this impeding that goal. This would hardly alter my (Killer) matches, as I typically win long before the gens pop, but baby Killers often express dissatisfaction with current gen timers, and I find nothing wrong with those. As far as kill rates are concerned, again, I believe BHVR balances around 60% assuming a 1k rough minimum. That is a fair position if you would want 50% to be the true fair balancing number, but my understanding is BHVR has it higher for other reasons.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558496#Comment_3558496
I don't quite agree, as I see endgame as Killers final chance to get kills. I see Hope as a earned and deserved personal 'free-win' perk, because it only works in endgame, setting you behind a perk during the vast majority of the game. This basekit NOED doesn't function if the Killer has a single kill, so I don't think you've read the post. In particular you said "... rewarding Killer for their lack of ability to sacrifice ALL (emphasis mine) Survivors before all gens were done...". Again, this proposed basekit NOED does not function if there is a single kill going into endgame.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558513#Comment_3558513
That's fair, I just wanted something to help weaker Killers who complain 90s is too short for gens, when I didn't even have a problem with 80s gens. This weaker basekit NOED is just meant to help the weakest of Killers who reach endgame without a kill, while not impacting what I consider 'normal' matches, which typically do have at least 1 kill before endgame.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558533#Comment_3558533
Every Killer benefits - While this is true, I feel like it moreso helps players than Killers if you know what I mean. Also a Nurse would make far different use out of this than a Spirit for example, so I totally get Spirit doesn't need the same level of assistance the normal M1 variety would need. I feel like this mostly evens itself out though. Stronger Killers are far more likely to end up with a kill before endgame, so they rarely if ever would get to use it. Weaker Killers on the other hand would be less likely to end up with a kill before endgame, so they might get some use out of it. I'm of the opinion Spirit's hits that give the score event should count as a power hit (not a basic M1), and Blight and Artist should be 4.4 though, so some of what makes this proposal a good idea is the hope in the back of my mind that those changes would also come to fruition.
Iffy as basekit - Yeah the haste + exposed might be too much, and I'd be willing to drop the basekit version's haste and only give the Killer exposed as an effect. The idea being in endgame everyone is 1 hit from death until someone is 'secured'. I think the 45s basekit UB was a good idea, it was only the fact it was tied to the endgame Mori system that I found distasteful. The main reason being even the classical Oni slugging example allowed for downing all 4 Survs and hooking each sequentially against basekit UB without a self-pickup happening, so it was only BM that was punished (for the most part).
1, that works for SWF. But it makes soloQ even that much more problematic. Because in SWF, you can communicate totem spawns. In soloQ this is nightmare. You would also have no way to indicate "I know 2 totem spots and I will clear them - do not bother with them and search in other parts of map" - making pentimento that much stronger especially in soloQ (not that it wouldn't be really strong now as most matches would have at least some totem destroyed).
2, it most definitely isn't the case. If you even open nightlight, you would see that on average 0K happens more often (22,89%) then 1K (18,14%) - hence minimum 1 kill is just not a thing (for it to be true 0K would need to happen very rarely). Also I don't think it should ever be the case - we are talking about multiplayer game so being selected for random unfair kill (just because) does not sound fair one bit. This would be the same as having hatch/gate for last person substantially buffed so that at least 1 survivor always gets out (why would you ever do that?).
3, yes I meant crutch and I did read your whole post :) As for comeback mechanisms - we already have those. It's very much possible that killer get 0 hooks until endgame and then via successful slug and big blunder on survivor's side he can still get 4K (and with your version it would be that much easier - because basekit disables with kill - who said that all 4 survivors won't be slugged by that point?). It does not happen often, but IMO it shouldn't happen often. Same thing for the other side - every survivor gets downed and killer won. Except survivors can have unbreakable, deliverance or just pure damn luck with 4% mechanics and come back to game. Sure enough if there are 4 gens left to repair and 2 survivors are dead there's no coming back to game - but at that point I don't think we want to introduce some real comeback (just leave the hatch in game so there's a reason for survivors to not go fully AFK).
Also - I don't really want to have more comebacks then we already have, because it basically means that your actions during match are that much less meaningful, because there's always something that can turn things around making your effort until that point meaningless. But sure enough - this one is a matter of taste and I acknowledge you have different idea about that one (and that's valid).
And as for if all 4 of them had time to finish gens before everyone died - so that means they had enough time to do totems too. That's not true at all. I have a lot of games where I get to endgame with our team having 6-8 hooks already - and it's not because of killer tried to play nice, it's rather because we didn't let killer tunnel (bodyblocks, chain flashlight blinds and doing "false" scratchmarks/sounds, flashlight saves/sabo saves, etc). Especially in these cases the match can very quickly end up in all 4 survivors got to end game but none of them got out alive. This of course happens more in SWF, but it's not limited to it. At least I personally play like this also in soloQ - and if I somehow get same-minded survivors in my team, then somehow killer will swear we are SWF group.
4, I agree on all points (but 1K minimum which results in 60% kill rate).
@Archol123 said:
I think it does not need something so drastic as base kit Noed, especially since it would affect strong and weak killers the same... So Spirit gets basically the same out of it as Trapper...
I however would like there to be a base mechanic in the game that incentives survivors to do totems, besides Noed... When the boon meta was strong people got really angry if you did dulls, which was somewhat fair but now where you hardly see any boons you have once again not really a good reason to do a totem, unless it is a hex... I think they should either make it so that hex perks stay in the game as long as a certain amount of totems are still up, and then increase the totem number by a lot so you don't have to find this one totem inside a bush in the middle of nowhere for 5 min. It would give some great game delay without the killer being able to camp the damn thing and make it impossible to cleanse, and it would prevent the Noed scenario where someone is hooked right next to Noed... So to throw out some random numbers... Let's say every map has 10 totems, all of them glow with the same intensity that let's you know how many hex perks are in the game, there is however no difference between 0 and 1 hex perk, so you can never risk free ignore them unless the killer showed you all 4 perks already . Hex perks would get weaker if more totems are cleansed, and if somewhere between 5 and 7 totems are cleansed then their effect vanishes. If it is then still a problem with finding a totem they might as well add a special map that highlights totem positions but takes like 30-40 seconds to aquire, so you don't have to search for minutes... Ofc this would not be possible to aquire from the start, but only after some totems have been cleansed.
This would require a rework of basically all hex perks in the game, however I think it would be not too hard to do. In general I'd be a huge fan of more base mechanics for both sides so you have more to do than gens, because let's be honest doing chests and dulls is a waste of time... So side objectives should at least have some value to them...
This sounds interesting. It could make the game more spicy. But it could spoil the game just as much. As you said basically all hex perks (and boons and other perks - like inner healing) will need to be adjusted. All the maps would require a lot more totem spawn points (which means most if not all maps would need to be adjusted - like to be fair this would be nice thing regardless of this change as some maps have easy spawns, but it's still a lot of work). That's too many "moving parts". It would be too easy to make the game unplayable. But as a concept this would be very interesting and nice if done right.
@SpanishExecutioner said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558575#Comment_3558575
it used to be something survivors feared. Survivors actually cleansed 5 even dull totems to prevent this.
Have you seen or done this since NOED nerf? I haven't at least. NOED used to be basically secondary objective for survivors.
Those 10% are probably in low MMR, not because of skill, but it's a free perk you can use on anyone. But you are just not going to see it on killers with multiple perks available for them.
Well I almost never do that since pentimento exists (there are certain cases when you are pretty sure killer has NOED so there are exceptions). Why would you spend a lot of time risking pentimento just to prevent NOED? When pentimento is arguably stronger then NOED?
@SpanishExecutioner said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558780#Comment_3558780
Like doing gens, or Pig's boxes, or almost any action other than chase in dbd.
Just so we are clear, I don't think NOED should be basekit, but it's just not really valid anymore. Overall many hex perks would need a buff, except Devour Hope. Ruin should definetly get one, it's currently wasting more time if survivors are looking for it, rather than just ignoring it.
Skull merchant used to be amazing for hex builds. Well, that's gone.
Yes. Most hex perks should get buff (but say plaything is already fine. So is dhope and I am pretty much convinced also NOED is fine right now).
I say NOED is fine, because before it's last nerf best indication of killer having NOED was how good he played. If he was clearly bad for your MMR - you better do all totems because otherwise you are not getting out... NOED used to inflate kill rate (and by proxy MMR) very much. I know we could basically always tell existence of NOED by killer's looping skill by very very high significance (it was noteworthy to mention when this was not the case and said killer was just mismatched because of matchmaking fail).
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Absolutely horrible idea.
1, pentimento exists
2, you are padding kill rate for no good reason. If killer got screwed up by matchmaking, it's better he gets 4-outed so that his MMR quickly normalizes
3, this is definition of a clutch. Killer lost the game, but you want to hand him free kill regardless
4, kill rate is still above 50%. Why do you ask to buff killers? SoloQ needs help much more
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@Akumakaji said:
Okay, I messed up with the description of the perk, it wasn't on hit, but on hook ... well, in my case that often meant the one and the same ^_-
But at least peeps seem to be somewhat concur that the perk feels odd. Fully powered it is really strong and one of the best info perks in the game, but mess up once and you are back to square zero. Maybe we can figure out some middle ground?
Sounds a lot like autodidact :) but at least autodidact can't loose stacks.
Well, it's an odd one. I agree the perk is in a bad spot and should get buff, but it's hard to think of one that would make it good, but not too good.
The only idea I have is maybe - after 1st heal it behaves without change, but after 2nd heal you can't loose the effect? Considering there's a very popular tracking perk that also causes blindness - I expect the perk to not get used in every lobby after such a buff.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558205#Comment_3558205
I very much doubt it, it's way to situational to be meta and honestly even if you sabo a hook the killer usually has another nearby, depending on the map
yes. Depending on the map.
But if I have breakout, saboteur, alexis with double speed and new bg player, I will make your life miserable as killer. Believe me. And even though I will be sabotaging every single time you down someone, I will still be working on a generator when people will be chasing. And as I have 20m free distance from a perk, you will never see me and I will always follow you to any hook you select.
Don't get me wrong - I think bg player is a little on weak side and should get buff. But right now it's effectively 250% better then current version. That's.... Too much.
Like sure - I haven't tested it, but... From my experience and considering what I already can do, well... I think killers will (rightfully) be very angry at this perk. And this does not even consider flashlight savers (which is stronger then sabo plays usually).
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@elderwitcher96 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558225#Comment_3558225
I did look through your profile a bit after I made my comment and you do seem to mention killer related problems from time to time, and even have some sound takes. So, me calling you a survivor main was a bit rash.
That aside your reasoning related to this topic, regardless if presented seriously or with an attempt at humor is still based on faulty arguments and I disagree with it.
Oh no. I most definitely am survivor main. It's just that right now I do play both sides 50/50, because I refuse to play soloQ.
Well. All I can say is, let's agree to disagree then
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@TheRealConsent said:
Okay, to balance it out, lets also make it gain stacks from special attacks and reduce special attack cooldowns too then.
What you're saying is only viable for a few killers anyway. No one can run STBFL with the immunity you're talking about anyway aside from Demo/Alien.
gaining stacks from special abilities would open up the perk for S-tier killers. That would make the perk broken.
I think the perk is fine right now. Current state is ok. If anything, the perk needs soloQ buff = give information to obsession that the perk is in game once killer gets 4 stacks. That's it. Everything else is IMO fine for a very strong, but still fair perk.
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@elderwitcher96 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558078#Comment_3558078
The thing I really see is that this is a minor but annoying and unnecessary thing, making chases last a bit longer for no reason at all. The amount of bad collisions on the maps, plus all the haste perks really shouldn't allow for any differences in environment collisions, in a game where most killers are only 10% or 15% faster.
For instance mft reduces the speed advantage of the killer by 20% since 15-3=12% and even further on someone like huntress which is 10-3=7%. So either way it should be changed. If it's a small difference then not much changes, and if it's indeed a big difference then absolutely it should be changed because killers being faster is one of the things that helps them gain an edge on a survivor. I can't claim with absolute certainty which one it is unless it's seen in practice but I only know it would be a positive change that shouldn't break the mechanics of chase.
By your exaggerations it seems you are a survivor main, who barely touched killer, if ever, so you aren't really qualified to speak of balance, because you are only interested in one side.
Ok. Make hitboxes same size. But to compensate, make killers 2% slower all the time. Killers already have above 50% kill rate. I call that QoL because I like that word more... /s
also - I don't "barely touch killer". I would say I play killer more then survivor. Or about 50/50
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556655#Comment_3556655
How is 200% for 5 seconds too much? You aren't able to use it in chase so I don't see an issue with it
Very easy to explain. I can sit anywhere on a generator very much away from the chase. Once killer downs someone, then I will go for a hook. Once he picks up, then I will cover all the distance. Now depending on map (some maps are "impossible" to sabo in) I have very good chance to rescue without any real investment (apart from having shorter chases, because I will not have exhaustion perk for myself - but I trade 3x advantage (help 3 of my teammates) for 1x advantage (help myself)).
If more people start to play like it - then there's a very good chance something will have to be done about it. One possibility is that next map will have even more hooks then new Rancid (btw good luck in ever pulling successful sabotage in that map). Alternatively devs will see the perk "overperforms" and need 300s exhaustion or something else ridiculous like this.
keep in mind bg player has now effectively double the speed (+50% vs +100%) and 25% longer duration (4s vs 5s). The perk gave you 8 extra meters. Now it will give you 20 meters. That's very substantial buff.
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@xltechno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557989#Comment_3557989
he makes a feint when chasing in a hut, if the survivor takes safety measures and moves so that he won't get hit unless he makes a mistake, if the other person shares pallets information and follows each other.
If you are not aware that it exists, I have nothing to say to you.
But, most of the feints were aimed at an upside, and half of them were his blunders as he took a gamble.
As I've said many times before, this is what happens when a killer tries to play for fun.
If we had built the park configuration from the beginning with the intention of winning seriously, this situation would not have arisen.
You are deliberately trying to ignore what we wrote to you. We posted you video where several (insane) killers took trapper (without ever using his M2. Ever) with conditions of not using any addon, not camp, not tunnel and not slug. They still got 90%+ win rate (3+ kills per game). How can you still be going on about something that "playing as M1 killer makes it impossible to win"? What more proof do you want?
And again. Compare your Japanese streamer how he plays his killer vs the video I provided with Scott. And Scott is like very very good killer, but he's still not as good as Hens (the one from no-power trapper video) or some other competitive streamers (like say Knightlight). There's night and day. I am 100% sure Scott would have won in that lobby - and as I said he's not even one of the very best. That guy just doesn't know how to fully utilize M1 killers. So when he gets insane survivors (these were not even insane - they were only very good) - then of course he doesn't stand a chance.
You want to balance killers so that they will win even against better survivors? Why? To drop survivor player base? What's the purpose?
@Atom7k said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558051#Comment_3558051
I disagree on this one. Streamers are never a good reference as you don't know what they did in preparation of the stream/game. Some of them simply create new accounts, some loose games on intention to drop the mmr so they look better on stream. I don't say it's impossible to win with just M1 but without statistics there is not much to prove here.
I agree that you can almost always learn something new from others. I don't know how your game looks on a daily basis but on my half 8/10 games the survivors are very decent. Looping very tight, to maximum efficiency, faking actions, leading a chase away from generators or survivors, saving pallets, splitting gen pressure.
Very few games survivors are 'easy to beat'. But that may be to mmr, rng and different geographical position. Too many variables to exactly pin something down.
Do you think Hens would do that? Like I think there are a few killers where you can be pretty sure they don't bother doing that (because they actually like more challenge). Another example would be Otz - pretty sure he never deranks on purpose.
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@Atom7k said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557990#Comment_3557990
I want an overall balanced game.
Thats not much to ask init?
If you don't balance around 'weaker killers' people will eventually stop using them which makes the game even more stale. I don't think it will be much fun having people to main only the strongest killers and run into them eventually in every game.
It will simply shrink the pool of killers to be seen in the game. Nobody wants to loose 25 games in a row. So people will leave the 'weak killers' behind at some point.
Nobody wants to loose 25 games in a row
So you are trying to say we have to buff soloQ and nerf strongest killers?
It's consensus, that strength-wise it's something like this:
SWF/S-tier killers
all the rest of killers
soloQ
(you can expand on specifics, there can be an argument that S-tier are stronger or weaker then full SWF, but overall this is it). Yet the thing you are responding to is basically "Yes I want game to be balanced around 4man SWF vs weakest killers". That goes directly against "I want an overall balanced game."
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@elderwitcher96 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557706#Comment_3557706
There is a difference between a small nerf and a big nerf. You're greatly exaggerating the effect of this. You could still loop the killer, but if let's say the killer would get a hit on you in 20 seconds, with the same hitbox he might get it 3 or 4 seconds earlier. I hardly see it as this game breaking nerf. And shift+w isn't always the most optimal way, it's not like you will always make the next loop, or if you do, it could be a weak one with the pallet broken. Your argument is basically nerf to one side, buff to other = will ruin the game eventually.
If it's so small, then why bother? It clearly won't have huge effect so no need to change anything... Or maybe if you actually felt the need to create the topic, then you VERY WELL KNOW it's not that small of an issue.
This is 100% survivor nerf. How/why would you even think to call it anything else? In what aspect is it not just balancing and instead QoL? I see literally nothing.
Also this small change is identical to increasing killer's movement speed by IDK maybe 1-2% (but only in chase). That's full effect of 1 of survivor's perk... That works only in a limited area...
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558018#Comment_3558018
No, mine is referring to their updates. Notice my comments about other floors will still progress albeit slower. Their changes also don't mention anything about hooks being next to gens.
If it's slower, then it will probably leave you enough time to not care about it. Provided you don't decide to just stay above hooked survivor for some reason (say to camp the only entrance to that hook on garden of joy). Or am I missing something?
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557723#Comment_3557723
The problem is how much free unhook progress survivors get when the killer isn't even camping. Multiple stories still give progress even if it's slower, looping killers near the hook still gives free progress even if slower, and if the hooked survivor is near a generator, the killer is fully penalized for checking up on the generator.
You are clearly talking about PTB version. All your points were addressed and live version (according to dev notes) won't suffer from this much
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While I agree, your new corrective action could be problematic, because hyperfocus exists. It might still be OK (duo with hyperfocus means there's less time for skillchecks), but it could potentially make gens too quick
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@xltechno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557696#Comment_3557696
Already watched it.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that he has experience winning a world championship :）
If you can say that having him doesn't help because there are better players, then someone should try to win.
I might add that he wasn't serious at first.
At this time, perks were a totem concept for him, so he was just trying to enjoy them.
However, that was a minor problem, and in one scene of this live broadcast, everyone including himself agreed, ``There are limits to how much you can win against SWF with the M1 Killer.''
If he won, he most definitely don't use M1 killers, because he does not know how to basic loop (to highest level).
I am not saying the person can't be cracked nurse or insane blight or unbreatable spirit, but from the video you provided it's pretty clear he didn't master basic M1 killers.
I even specified where are his biggest gaps and provided video of person that showcases how to fill those gaps. Check my post again - you will see the huge skill diff between those 2 killers. (Also just because someone is strong on 1 killer, it does not mean he's strong on all killers)
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It's progress bar and not a flip switch. If you didn't camp survivor, you have enough time left in progress bar for securing next stage.
I see no good reason to give killer buffer and also free extra camp time. Like we are trying to get rid of facecamping, not hide it behind new words
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This is close to definition of what is NOT QoL but pure nerf (to survivor = buff to killer). Smaller collision is actually very good decision by devs, because it basically makes it so that running around something makes more sense then running in the open. I think the game is more interesting when shift-W is not the most optimal way. So in my opinion this whole idea is going in directly unhealthy direction.
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@xltechno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557431#Comment_3557431
There may be a language barrier, but this is a great reference material.
https://youtu.be/TZv4oa4cXm4?si=1XHocuXniDOy-GdS
The purpose of the video is ``survivors incite before balance, so killers don't increase,'' but it's also a good example of how much SWF is causing the collapse of matches.
Survivor is certainly good at this match, but Killer is in the top class and has several levels of skill above them.
Even so, this is an example of how the killer side ends up unable to win no matter what.
Well first of
a, killer was definitely not as experienced in this case as were the survivors. It was classical windstorm wraith that just tries to block windows/pallets and that's the main gist. Survivors were trying to mindgame and were actually lucky quite a lot of times (I would say they got about 80% of 50/50 right which means they were pretty much in killer's head).
b, the game took long. 13 whole minutes. Also survivors were chasing a lot of time next to someone who was going for heals. They did help each other, but they did nothing spectacular that needs SWF. I have seen better solo players and I would absolutely not say with straight face that they were SWF (it's fully possible, but they 100% didn't need to be). What I know is, that they 100% were not a "swat team" just by the fact that they chased in a wrong places (going next to teammates that were healing or going where there are generators nearby).
c, killer basically cleaned up whole map. Every pallet dropped was pallet that got destroyed. Even one that got chem trap on it (which was SUPER visible). A better killer would try to mind game these loops - which brings us to next point
d, killer barely even mindgamed anything a little bit more advanced. Sure, there were basic things. It's clear that we are not talking about brand new player with 50 hours, but all these mindgames were very linear and predictable (no hiding of red light, no messing with timing around loops, no double/tripple backs - everything could have been directly read by red light alone).
e, but killer wasn't bad either. He chose his chases. He was willing to slug for a short time and he tried to spread the pressure. Macro play wasn't really terrible. Also start of the match was very very much in favor of killer. Then suddenly a bad (and stubborn - if you can't catch someone for this long, then forget him) chase erased everything that happened until that point (where end game just cemented everything that happened mid-game).
Overall it wasn't bad match. Considering killer was wraith with totem build and no slowdown + considering skill level on both sides, the game looked just about right. To be frank the only surprising thing in whole match was the very strong beginning for killer. Survivors also took good perk builds, but nothing OP. It's just standard self-care botany with WoO. Nothing crazy.
An example of much better wraith player (with said mindgames directly demonstrated in video) - is for example this one with Scott:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RrmPRe-vQ4Just ignore first 30s as that is really cringe part. But the rest is nice presentation how to play it even on a map like Borgo.
But you can see also how Otzdarva plays him (if/when he plays him as he's a generalist and absolutely does not specialize in wraith - but he knows looping basics really well and can force survivors to be way off by little tricks he does on basic M1 killers - and wraith is basic M1 killer on steroids in chase).
I am pretty sure you can find even better examples with somebody who mains just and only wraith and nobody else.
Hope this helps.
Also the video that @Archol123 mentioned above is this one:
https://youtu.be/vaR-9_Vjp3s?si=wNQGzHm3TEq0nN9C -
I just want to ask devs, that if you find that it is indeed too much (I also think so), that you don't nerf it even harder then current version. I don't take current bg player every game, but it could be close to 50% of games. If you butcher it, it will be sad because even current version is really nice (even if very situational and inconsistent).
Because of how much I am afraid of nerf hammer, 4s 175% speed would make me happier...
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@xltechno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557280#Comment_3557280
No need to worry. unbreakable will soon be included as a standard base kit.
If mass production of slugs becomes popular after AFC, the management will implement it as soon as possible!
The management is smart so there are no surprises.
If you have more then 300 hours of real gameplay, AFC will not do anything.
I am 100% certain, that basekit UB will not be part of the game. There was specific test for this (and basekit mori) and the end result is, that it was bad and nobody liked the system.
But considering your crying, I'll bite. Look at the origin of this game. Check old maps. Check what was possible. Each map had multiples of current pallet count, they worked better, there were literal infinites in the game, windows didn't block ever, there was no bloodlust in the game, hatch could have let up to all 4 players out of the game without ever opening the gate (all you needed was a key), instaheal healed you really instantly and not after X seconds, BNP fixed one gen then and there, maps were larger and it was much easier to hide in them, hooks could be pre-sabotaged and then finished + all but basement hooks could have been sabotaged without ever respawning.
Overall the game was VERY survivor sided and from that point onward (with a little ups and downs) the game only ever nerfed survivors and buffed killers. Yet there are still people in this game like you that pretend killer is the victim and devs only ever buff survivors so that the game is unplayable. Well it might be shocking, but overall if you take long enough timeline it's very clear game only-ever nerfs survivors in the long run. So spare me your victim mentality please
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@xltechno said:
Killers should not be discouraged if they cannot sacrifice anyone, but survivors have the right to object when they are easily victimized.
The killer is not allowed to abandon the match even if he knows he will lose, but the survivor is allowed to suicide if he thinks it's not fun.
That's because the murderer forces him to play a boring game and curse his own misfortune for having to commit suicide.
If Killers are forced to play boring matches with Survivors, we shouldn't blame them. Removed from important list.
Killers who forget the above will be condemned as bad players.
Very nice us vs them.
Problem is, that both sides can do both things (like you are complaining as killer right here right now) and I can specify nice example for every single case (not literally, killer indeed can't suicide, but he can go to corner to speed it up - on the other hand if killer decides to slug, there's no suicide option for survivor).
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557231#Comment_3557231
Survivors have pre-match chat and numbers to compensate their lack of premature knowledge of the killer's identity. It also takes few seconds into the match to learn which killer survivor is facing. Letting survivors know which killer is in the lobby will only grant even more advantage to survivor which they currently do not need. Killers are the ones who always play Solo and every bit of information they do get helps them shape-up their game plan.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557233#Comment_3557233
If we talk about something more or less average and not-so-sweaty then we can see that knowledge about SWF's presence can massively impact on match pace for both sides. It's the same as letting killers see hook states of survivor players, some people think it will make killers play more dirty when in reality killers can already memorize which survivor was hooked and how many times . With SFW it's even more simple - killers won't have to assume it's 4 man party from the start and will know if SWF is involved and how many were in the group.
It's information that SHOULD ABSOLUTELY NOT change how killer plays the match. Basically it means that SWF is not allowed to go with intend to just mess around ever. Because game will tell the killer "this is scary SWF" - so they will either dodge or go sweaty. Nice recipe how to loose chunk of player base.
But I agree with you on 1 thing. I think killer should see hooks - because of what you said - killer that wants to tunnel will remmeber that 1 survivor
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557211#Comment_3557211
In ideal world MMR system would take SWF into consideration and put people in group against killer with higher MMR as well as against killer who has higher kill rate for more fair experience.
Killers need extra information because they are alone going against four other players. Neither side knows what experience their opponent has but killer also doesn't know whenever it's a SoloQ or SWF party they are dealing with. Because of that, most killer players start sweating from the beginning because they have to assume that it's a 4 man party from the beginning, which breeds the so-called toxic gameplay where in reality it's not such but rather more oppressive and often rather effective way to even the odds. There's simply no room for fun experience left for killers if they want to win - either dominate or get dominated.
IMO it's more about the intent with which players came into the game. 4man squad with 4 BNPs and genrush mentality will mostly win. Alch ring C33 blight that came into the game with intent to tunnel at 5 gens will also mostly win. The only outlier will happen if both of these groups meet in a single game...
It's more about who wants to win than who is in SWF/which killer you pick. If you are 4man that just came into match to mess around with maps and keys, you will play normal match where nobody will see any difference. If you go into the game as blight with C21+rat and intend to follow survivor rulebook, then everyone will still get to play the game and it will most likely be fun match for either side (and both sides would have equal chance to win in both examples).
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557216#Comment_3557216
Then it's purely subjective thing. You don't want to let killers come more prepared or play more effectively by having a heads-up information about you being in group and being more organized than full SoloQ randoms. This however does not change the fact that this is a balance issue and game experience would be more equalized if such information was granted to killer players.
well yes. Because even being in SWF does not guarantee anything. It's like with prestige. If you see Meg prestige 1, people usually expect very bad player that will not think, not loop very well and so on - without them ever knowing, that the player just does not play Meg specifically a lot, but has 10000 hours in the game with most on it on survivors. Or you see P100 and immediately get expectation of sweaty match - where said person is killer main that just spent all his BP on one character and can't even loop (instead is hiding whole game).
The same thing can be said about SWF - I have been "accused" of being in SWF many times when playing solo (I barely play any solo these days, but this happens quite often if I do) - just because I like to always play altruistically. People will just expect like you do - but it's often unjustified and basically does more harm then good. These days all I see is if the game was easy 4 out "they are absolutely 100% SWF" and if killer wins on 5 gens "see, soloQ". Both of those are mostly bias that's incorrect.
Also I have played with some very good soloQ players over the years and if you have game sense, you have much more then comms can ever give you. Skill is by far much more then being SWF.
One other thing - I quite frequently play SWF without comms and there's very little difference. Sure communication absolutely does help. But the main benefit of SWF is, that you won't get 1 teammate that is clearly mismatched to your MMR (who will get tunneled out for easy killer's win) + you can rely on your teammates instead of expecting them to do their no mither challenge. This is much much more then comms could ever give you and quite frankly I would totally love it if somehow this also got into soloQ (I don't expect it and I don't even know how to even start with this, but it would make most of the games more wholesome IMO).
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557169#Comment_3557169
Well, you are right. I still think the system should be tested in live to check if it is really not abusable before making any more changes, but I agree with you.
I perfectly agree with you. There's very good chance there is something in there nobody realized yet and we will only see it in live. So it would be very nice if all the kinks could be discovered and resolved ASAP
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556874#Comment_3556874
Play both sides then.
I used to play killer mostly but now I also play as survivor alone. I do have mixed experience but so far I haven't complained about how killers tend to play most of the time because I know how it is to play as a killer against competent or organized team.
The problem I see is there are way too many survivor players who want their comfort zone expanded because they are not willing to dedicate extra time and improve their skill. As for rewarding killers for going against SWF while preventing lobby dodge - at least let killers know it's SWF in the match once it's started so they can adjust their playstyle accordingly.
But I do play both sides. At some point of time or another I mained quite a big chunk of killer roster. Right now I enjoy the most (chase) bubba and spirit. It used to be also pinhead recently, but devs screwed his camera when using the ability for very bad experience.
But at one point of time or another I also mained: nurse, oni, wesker, clown, doctor, wraith, dredge, plague, twins and artist.
But this does not change anything - I don't want killer to see I am playing in 4man for exactly the same reason why I don't want survivors to see I am playing pinhead (with good addons on top of it), twins or wesker
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556874#Comment_3556874
Allow killers have ability to swap while in lobby.
If you want it go that far, why not make it fair for both sides then?
Because I clearly DON'T want that. I was just making point.
Giving more information serves just 1 purpose and that's more lobby shopping - which creates more imbalanced match making which means more stomp games (where nobody had really much fun and if you won you'll immediately forget and if you loose then that's a reason to come to forum to complain other side is OP).
At this point I am pretty much convinced the game would be better if there was no pre-game lobby. Just connect the players right away directly into game when all 5 players are matched. No lobby shopping, no complaints about any side having advantage and no other BS - just more time in actual game and less time in menus outside of game.
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Facecamping makes the game boring. Basically it creates 5 AFK players. 1 that should not touch keyboard while on hook or he's throwing. 1 standing right next to hook or he's not facecamping and 3 holding M1 (or not touching M1 any more) on generator. How can you call 5 people being basically AFK "playing the game"?
FACEcamping should have never been part of this game ever. This is one of the problems from inception of the game that just didn't get addressed ever. It's already high time for this problem to go away. Forcing 5 out of 5 players to not touch any controls for optimal play is NOT a good game design. It's SUPER BORING and it should be so for all 5 players (and I presume the only reason why killers are even willing to go thru this boring "tactics" is, because it's still efficient enough).
On the other hand there's proxy camping and that one is valid killer's strategy. AFC should be tinkered so, that survivors can't fool the system into thinking killer facecamped when he only proxy-camped or when he was defending valid things. Removal of facecamp from the game should not make anyone's experience any worse. It should just tip the scale enough, that 0 brain and 0 interactivity gameplay is never optimal or even close to optimal "strategy".
In conclusion - AFC absolutely and totally IS needed. Removal of objectively boring things in a game who's sole purpose is having fun for all players should always be THE highest priority for game developers. That's why DS is now removed at end game as it created same kind of "uninteractivity" (just watch me hold going forward control and there's nothing for you or me to do but watch - without you having any agency or chance to influence anything).
Also I can't fathom how some people call ability to be afk important, otherwise the game is bland. Being AFK IS bland.
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@Batusalen said:
So you can know how much you would have to loop the killer beside the hook to get a free escape? I think we need to test how much abusable is the system even with the changes they made before allowing more abuse of it, if you don't mind.
In any case, both the killer and the survivors should get a warning that the killer is still in the area of the hook (and not even for the survivors, as they already have Kindred). But never the progress of the bar itself.
You still get this in SWF. It's not hard to say "I am half full" or "a little bit more and I can unhook" or any other state (even though it will be less precise it does not make any difference in gameplay for SWF). This is something that should be addressed just to not widen gap between SWF and soloQ again.
On the other hand - any abuse in the system should be tackled anyway independently of showing this information or not. Because any abuse still left in the system would be widely opened to SWF anyway (not providing this information just imbalances SWF vs solo and that's it).
One last thing - I am perfectly fine with actually showing the progress bar to both other survivors and killer, because for killer this basically informs him that he is camping. AFC in my opinion should work like a deterrent from face camping - in normal game it should never or almost never happen, that survivor is actually able to unhook himself. By keeping this information hidden killer can miscalculate and unhook can happen more often. I don't think this is the target of the feature. On the other hand for survivors seeing the progress bar filling up should make soloQ more efficient on gens and not get punished that bad for obvious facecamper which works just as much in the same manner - if killers see they can't camp because it basically looses them their game - then they will do it even less so in the end even less facecamping will happen.
But as you correctly hinted - if there still are situations that can be abused, then AFC can still be weaponized instead. I don't consider that goal of the feature and all these things should absolutely be addressed. Ideally I want self-unhook to happen exactly and precisely never for even average killer, because on one hand he knows he just can't facecamp and on the other hand because there's no way for survivors to force killer onto the hook enough for unhook to happen. But proxy camping is OK as that leaves room for at minimum trade.
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@BubbaDredge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557058#Comment_3557058
So if one group is breaking the rules, the answer is to buff their non-cheating team-mates and punish the killer? Everyone who follows the rules gets free auras, except killers, we still just get cheated.
I'm thinking we're not going to agree on this one.
Breaking the rules? This is part of design. A thing you don't like is not breaking the rules. And this was already stated by devs btw
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@BubbaDredge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556715#Comment_3556715
Giving all survivors more info doesn't change the disparity, just means it's the same but survivors get extra info.
soloQ will get information that SWF will 100% provide to their teammates via discord every single time (if said SWF is using voice comms that is). So if this is the case - then providing this information to everyone is strictly buffing soloQ (or non-voicecomms SWF).
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@Chaogod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556967#Comment_3556967
No it's not impossible. No matter which killer you pick. See video I posted above.
It litterally is. Like your source is a person whos job is to play this game all day everyday who asked other people who play this game all day everyday. I am talking about average people. Not people who live and breathe the game. SFW has an overt EXTREME advantage when the game was never designed with you having coms. If they are playing against someone who plays the game for 8 hours a day, every single day, then yeah they are gonna deal with SFW better because they know the game to an absurd degree which pretty much any normal person who plays the game doesn't. All that video proves is "can the top players play with an arbitrariy rule and still win? Yup!".
This looks like you just lost your match and you don't like it. So you want easy mode. But the thing is, that kill rate is for a long time already above 50%.
You realize 50% is not not a good kill rate in a game where you have to kill 4 people right? Which correct me I am wrong, is not the the entended range they want. That doesn't translate to "two survivors escape each match". I don't think its an unreasonable request. Hell you can give extra XP or bloodpoints. Its clear people want to force this game to be competetive so might be better off just adding a competetive mode on the other hand. But it's clear you play exclusively survivor who looks at satistics on a website that is making a best guess. SFW is busted in a game that already bends over backwards constantly for the other side who explode the fourms because the game is even for a change.
I will first address your second point - so 50% is not fair and you want 100%? Ok let's go at it the other way around - you can't seriously consider you or any of your friend dying being an acceptable scenario. So in a game where the goal is to escape - the only acceptable outcome is 4 out. See? Does that sound entitled? Why wouldn't your version sound exactly the same way? 50% is exactly - you are just as likely to win each individual match as you are to loose. That's already a compromise.
As for what I play - it's fairly even, but overall mostly killer. I am not willing to endure all the quirks this game has in soloQ (only very rarely when I feel a bit masochistic) so if I go solo, then I go killer. On the other hand - if I go SWF, there's 50% chance I will absolutely not use voice comms whatsoever (so much for your unfair advantage).
As for the game wasn't planned to be played like that - the game was always planned to have SWF from the VERY beginning. Devs said so themselves
As for your points that only experts can play against SWF - you are totally wrong. Being in SWF does not make you better looper. It does not make you more efficient on gens. It does not prolong your chases. The main advantage of SWF is - that you play with people you know and you can have expectations. That's it. That's the biggest advantage. Comunication is also very useful, but it does not come close to the fact that with SWF you'll have 4 reliable people while in soloQ you'll most likely have at least 1 person that will be dragging you down. That's by far THE main advantage. However if you are beginner and your friends are beginner - then you'll just create 4 survivors that are dragging each other down - so it's absolutely easy to stomp that.
And if you now pivot to experienced survivors - then those can and will be in soloQ too. I have been accused of being in SWF a lot of times just because I do sabotage even in soloQ. 4 single but experienced players will be way stronger than 4-man SWF that is just learning the game. And if you say but there are too experienced survivors - then so are killers (and now that video is SUPER relevant).
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@RpTheHotrod said:
As long as the killer gets to see it, too.
that absolutely is not unreasonable in this case. I would like to give both sides this info
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556397#Comment_3556397
incorrect.
If a survivor boons the top of ironworks, that's a big waste of time for the killer to go up there. That's an obvious example but there are many scenarios like that. If there are two gens left on one side of the map and a boon by the completed gens on the opposite side of the map, the killer would be throwing to go snuff that boon.
Expo and CoH are still good but the other boons will never be buffed until base changes happen to boons. It's not much of a problem anymore because people don't use boons often anymore and expo requires coordination to really go crazy.
This presumes boons give enough value, to be worth perk slot + going up that ironworks (gl if you get lerys instead) + actual 14s to boon. As of right now - the answer is that's not the case
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@Chaogod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556924#Comment_3556924
I am not understanding what that has to do with SFW?
So a group with coms is next to impossible to beat
No it's not impossible. No matter which killer you pick.
If you have to wait longer to play with your friends then so be it
Yes because that would not concern you. But suppose survivors saw which killer they are going to face - suddenly it's not going to "so be it".
Even some really good killers can't beat a half way decent SFW group
See video I posted above.
Its tiring when you are forced to play super sweaty when you play against groups who think they are gonna enter a pro league or something
This looks like you just lost your match and you don't like it. So you want easy mode. But the thing is, that kill rate is for a long time already above 50%. Especially in lower MMR brackets. This is multiplayer game - every time you win, someone else lost. You already win more then 50% by playing killers (talking individual share of vs each specific survivor) and you still ask for even more