FrenziedRoach
FrenziedRoach
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This always comes up anytime Exhaustion gets justly nerfed.
The idea guys, is not to run from the killer forever, but to eventually lose the killer. All they are doing is driving home that point with this nerf.
Your perks still work, you just have to actually get yourself in a position where you don't have to sprint constantly. Anybody who's even a half-way decent survivor can do that. Hell, even I can do that and I'm barely competent as a survivor.
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I usually run Bond and Premonition no matter what - which usually isn't in people's build's. Not sure why - knowing where my teammates are (and if they're being chased) and which direction the killer is in is invaluable to me. Hell, my Ace runs both Bond and Open-Handed for a little extra intel.
I got the new girl running the Lithe/Dance With Me combo - and I'm surprised I'm not seeing more people run it because that combo is boss.
As killer, I'll admit to Huntress's Lullaby being a guilty pleasure on a couple of my killer builds.
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This would be a nerf to the doctor actually.
I'm assuming these illusions disappear after they do their fake hit?
That means Doc has less time to look in the right direction and get an update to the survivor's direction.
Also, remember that illusions disappear if the survivor touches it.
As a doc main, I disapprove this suggestion.
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I can almost picture the eye roll "Oh you guys"
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A puppet master who deposits dolls around the map. Depending on the addins they're using, they can
- Act as alarms alerting the killer
- Emit a small terror radius to confuse the survivors
- Attach themselves to survivors to mess with skill checks and/or navigation (can be removed by another survivor)
- I picture an ultra rare that causes the an attached doll to act like the L4D2 Jockey under the killer's control. But killer must stand still to use the ability and it can only be used when in the killer's field of view within in a certain distance
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it's likely because the clown is so Rotund your mind is causing you to perceive him as slow when he's not.
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Oh believe me, we killers have been nerfed quite a bit since release. have a look
https://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/0/1621724915795099897/
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I'm just here to hang a happy little survivor on a happy little hook.
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They camp because not enough survivors are pressuring them away from the hook by popping off generators.
Survivors are so caught up in this "everybody must get out at all cost" mentality that they won't train their killer's right.
While keeping others alive is beneficial - there's times you have to stop and look at the bigger picture and just let that guy on the hook go for the greater good. And punishing a camper is the "greater good"
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Gee, if only the generators took less time than the 120 second time it takes to kill somebody on a hook.
It takes a massive 80 seconds to do a generator....
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Not a bad idea. Worth considering for sure.
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@azazer said:
Personally I'd love to see Alma from the FEAR series.I've thought this myself
Problem is, Alma is likely to eat the Entity itself and take over.
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Just have it fire off with no cooldown anytime Bloodlust is active and see how that rolls
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@No_Cluie_Louis said:
Tbh man i was actually thanking you in my original comment for the ideas, i just worded it wrong. Again you're right that it would be ridiculous the make the action not scary (though i do think the high bloodpoint reward is partly to encourage and altruistic play style, as the game isn't meant to be played solo). The unhook action would still need to be scary, so perhaps a speed decrease for the killer shouldn't be part of my idea, or at least far weaker than i originally suggested. I still believe something should be done however to make staying near by less effective as it's quite boring for the killer, and can ruin the survivors game. Perhaps still reduce sacrifice speed while the killer is near, or maybe reduce the amount of points you get for an unhook. You need to remember that the benevolent emblem causes you to lose points if you make an 'unsafe unhook'. This makes me think the killer shouldn't be right there to hit the survivor after they're unhooked. Perhaps i should be thinking it the other way, and increasing the points for unhooking a teammate, but giving the saved teammate a 3 second sprint burst to give them a small chance. This way the saviour is getting a high risk / high reward. This however would affect borrowed time. There's a lot to think about as it all affects each other. However, i do slightly disagree that camping is caused by survivors, as though it can be, camping can also cause survivors to swarm the hook, as survivors get used to camping killers and there for are used to running to the hook, getting seen, but not getting chased as the killer doesn't want to leave the hook. Though it's mainly survivors fault, it's a loop and both roles are responsible. Please read all of this and give any more improvement suggestions.Actually, the penalty for the unsafe unhook is more to discourage people from farming teammates off each other. For myself, I always try to take responsibility for a bad unhook by throwing myself at the killer so the wounded guy can get away.
You stated - "This makes me think the killer shouldn't be right there to hit the survivor after they're unhooked" - except the devs have said time and time again that camping is expected and allowed. In fact, they fully expect the killer to act more like a Goalie trying to block a goal. If the killer is there to hit the survivor immediately on unhook and the rescuer doesn't have Borrowed Time, then it's 100% the rescuers fault that the person gets farm.
The reason I say it's Survivor Caused is because survivors do very little to dissuade the behavior. People who "Bait" you from 20 meters by T-Bagging behind a pallet, people who won't "chum" the waters by shedding a bit of their own blood to get the predator to bite and give chase. People who sit there for minutes at a time and don't pressure the killer to leave by slamming out generators.
It takes 120 seconds for somebody to die on a hook on first hook, 80 seconds to do a generator, on first hook that's 3 hands that can be doing generators and making that killer think twice about sitting there bored the next time they get somebody on a hook. When survivors actually focus generators instead of feeding a camper, the camper loses HARD and has a very short and boring game.
A good killer knows he has a life bar - it's time. Time he loses every single moment somebody is on a generator. That's why all the high-tier killers run Ruin - to extend that life bar. That's why all the good killers leave the hook most of the time to find somebody else to chase - because chasing somebody while somebody is hooked effectively pulls THREE PEOPLE off generators and extends that life bar.
No, there doesn't have to be a penalty for camping because one already exists - it's just people refuse to use that penalty and train killers that camping is generally a bad idea.
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Just an FYI regarding the Dream Transition. Devs are seriously considering changing it so that survivors cannot do "channel" abilities while in the transition phase. This includes things like healing, generators, totems, unhooks, ect. Anything that has a bar that fills, they cannot do while in the transition phase. The idea is to give Freddy some defense. If this goes through, a longer transition phase may not necessarily be a bad thing anymore
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I'm surprised they don't balance the games on console separately like others have done due to the controller. It's not like they can keep their commitment to release everybody's releases at the same time anyway.
L4D4 changed the whole zombie spawning mechanic for console because of controllers.
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@Paddy4583 said:
Ueah once 2 have DCed and the killer still plays like they have 4 survivors doing 5 gens there’s no point in staying in the game, you don’t stand a chance to get points worth hanging around forWell yah - at that point I don't want to be there anymore either, so let's finish it already. If you DC, that's no skin off my nose - I'm getting what I want either way.
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Yes, I'm all about the stealth. I run my main survivor with nothing but information perks (no exhaustion perks) so I can avoid the killer and hostile survivors as much as possible.
I like being a ghost in the fog. And I have respect for those survivors that many of my killer bretherin call "immersed".
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@No_Cluie_Louis said:
I get your point, it would make borrowed time pointless and i didnt think about that. I know your saying it to insult me but honestly i wanted constructive criticism >
You need to stop assuming we're all out to insult you. I was being candid.
Your idea is just terrible, period. Coming to the hook for a rescue should come with a risk that justifies the points and ranking the survivors get for doing so. With your proposal, that risk is gone. That basically means you get all reward with little risk.
Remember, you get
1500 bloodpoints for the rescue - that's the second largest score event survivors have.
1 whole level in Benevolance for just doing the rescue and allowing the victom to survive for 10 seconds.All for doing an action that takes about a second of time and holding a single button. And you want to give this to them for free? Co'mon man, use your head!
The killer camping at least comes with the risk of him losing a ton of generators... if survivors would actually do what they're supposed to and punish the behavior.
Which comes back to what all of us have been trying to say...
CAMPING IS CAUSED BY SURVIVOR BEHAVIOR
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Keep in mind that actor likenesses are likely harder to negotiate than the costume and/or mask they wear.
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The concept is solid, but I'd make a few changes
Instead of stepping the survivors arm, have him kneel with his knee between the shoulder blades. This allows him to open the trap with both hands (which is more realistic) and allows him to place the trap closer. He can then with one motion, push himself to his feet by pushing his hand on back on the survivor, and grab him at the same time, dragging his face into the trap - at which point we can do the foot stomp.
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I liked his "Rare" outfit at first, but I'm sticking with P3 Bloody Outfit
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1/10
Obvious salty bait is salty AF
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They're considering setting it up so that survivors who are transitioning to the dream state can't do channels (which includes heals) which may help.
but yah, Freddy's defense is a mess overall
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I know they plan on improving his Perks very soon.
I suspect he didn't get bigger buffs yet simply because they wanted to fix the looping/pallet issues first. It's usually better to fix something that affects most killers first, that way you have to do less balance work on individual killers later.
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@Techn0 said:
@Mringasa said:
Good Doctors at middle ranks are horrible to go up against for me because I haven't been able to counter them properly yet. That takes time and experience. There aren't a whole lot of Doctor players, and I can't blame them since a lot of people will just DC as soon as they hear the first scream. This kinda sucks, because I would love to face more of them so I can come up with good tactics to use as I refuse to pallet loop.
After over 500 hours of exclusively doctor I have to quit because of all the death threats and Dc's. He's my favorite killer but it's just insane how many people give threats because you play him. Now i'm just waiting for the clown profile picture to be added to the forums.
Glad you found somebody you liked. But you should let weak-minded people dissuade you from playing a killer you like.
I revel in it myself. Let them show me they're weak-minded. I'll continue to play my P3 Doctor.
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@Outsidedarkness said:
And I am not even worried about his powers as much in the near future when they change the perks I will run the perk that u dont scream this will be a counter to the dr.Now that's the right attitude to have. I used to run Urban Evasion due to hags for the same reason (and now I run Premonition to deal with Freddy)
There's hope for you
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100% yes on both
So it can sort of work as a poor-man's deerstalker if you need it to.
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So anotherwords, make Borrowed Time useless and get free unhooks (which is free points as the killer is unable to respond with the speed nerf)
That's exactly what your idea proposes the speed nerf would make it hard to defend the hook.
I'm sorry, but your idea is not thought through or fair.
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All the ones on top of the hills need to go at the very least.
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Until the following 2 things are addressed
- Survivors not getting autokicked from the lobby for high ping because they are too stupid to disconnect themselves
- Last minute quick-switches can't happen
You're just going to have to deal with it.
I suspect all that would happen anyway is people will just ALT-F4 or plug pull anyway.
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Also remember, they just got through spending a bunch of money to buy their game completely from the publisher so they have full creative control of the game.
Given the changes I've seen since they got those rights, I say let them have the money.
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@Lord_Technopapst said:
Marth's group does show that there is a inbalance in high rank SWF matches. But they have over 1000hours in the game and are some of the best survivors in the game (imo). But you can't say that this is the only thing that encourages camping. There are also many players that are not perfect looping survivors which could survive everytime but they also have to struggle with camping killers. Not every killer that camps is forced to camp.
So even if you stop the survivors behavior that forces the killer to camp you will still have campers.I never denied that for a moment.
But I guarantee that if survivors acted properly and punished the behavior, it wouldn't be the "epidemic" everybody claims it is.
I'm especially getting tired for calling out on it when it's the right move for reasons I've previously mentioned.
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@BaconMuncher9 said:
I can't currently watch the Q&A, what happened to Trapper? Also someone said something about sabatour, What's up with that?- Trap setting is now faster
- All bag add-ins buffed to hold more with a brown version added
- Diamond Stone now downs you only if you free yourself
- Added a second ultra-rare add-in, Grisly Coil. Traps that are disarmed or sabotaged injure the survivor. If I recall, this one will also arm a random disarmed trap in the world every 20 seconds.
- Sabotaged Traps will now auto-repair after 3 minutes, just like hooks
- various changes to other addins to group them in a manner that makes better sense.
may be more, but that's what I can recall
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They very likely will NOT I'm thinking.
Remember, things like Franklin's Demise do not proc off Hatchet Throws or Chainsaws.
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@No_Cluie_Louis said:
The reason i called the thread camping fix is because i think it's broken. Yes it does work at getting a survivor out of play and it isn't against the 'rules' , but it shouldn't do and it shouldn't be. It's people who think its a good strat that ruin the game. Any game can be played in a toxic way, even board games. Its called cheating and its the easiest thing in the world. You can easily not get caught and it makes the game easier, but it's no fun for you or the other people playing. I play both roles in DBD but mostly killer and I've never been able to understand why anyone would want to play like that, and think the way you seem to think.
First off, suggesting a way to fix camping - there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, I'm open to suggestions that haven't already been tried and turned out to have failed.
Secondly, I also play both roles. I have 800 hours in this game spread over almost 2 years now. I prefer killer mostly because I can't stand dumbass teammates - not because I hate the survivor role.
What I take issue with is people acting like players who play within the rules as Toxic because they don't fit their "model" of how a game should be played.
I play by the letter of the rule, not the "spirit" of the rule. And the devs have stated time and time again that camping is allowed. So doing so is within the rules. To say it's cheating when it's clearly not is childish and not the rulebook I'm playing out of.
Players can make all the rules about the "proper way" to play all they want, but it doesn't change the simple FACT that their rules are completely made up and not the canon.
Just because I choose to keep things uncomplicated and not navigate the perplexing maze of made-up rules that players put and play well within what the game allows me to do does not make me Toxic.
I understand that this game was built from the ground up to be PvP. This means I should never expect any player who is my opponant to pull any punches with me - therefore I should not pull any punches with them. Why should I stop running ruin when people run DS? Why should I not tunnel or camp when people loop difficult loops? No quarter asked, none give is what I should expect from every game. When I'm survivor, I will loop. When I'm killer, I will tunnel or camp if the situation warrants it. Ultimately, I'm looking to win by any tool available to me in game. And to call me Toxic for using those tools is silly.
Look, if you want to lamblast the design of the game, then be my guest. But don't put labels on players who wish to play the game their way within the boundries set upon them by the game. Don't call somebody a cheater or toxic because they don't play in a manner you disagree with that. Make that distinction, and we'll get along just fine.
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@No_Cluie_Louis said:
But that's just such a stupid answer. It's like being asked why a murderer in real life would kill someone and them saying because they can. You can go outside right now and stab someone with a kitchen knife. You can do alot of things but it doesn't mean you should.
Just because you can compare valid game tactics to a real life crime doesn't mean you should.
Co'mon man, you're better than this. Knock it off with the false equivalency already.
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@No_Cluie_Louis said:
I dont understand why killers will find any excuse to camp. Im a killer main with 600 hours on the game and i rarely camp. It actually makes the game harder for you and its really boring. I've never understood the point.
Just edited to add that if someone tea bagged me, i would camp them for the reason that an ignorant arse hole doesn't deserve to have fun.Vengeance? Salt Mining? Because they don't like the character?
Does it really matter?
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@No_Cluie_Louis said:
i'm not talking about that kind of camping as it's fully justified, i'm talking about when a salty killer doesn't like that he was outplayed, or even worse he's just a complete arse and he decides to camp with no real reason. As a killer main i totally agree that its their fault if they stand around the hook because they're too cocky.
Your mistake is assuming he doesn't have a right to do so. Hell, I used to camp certain Nea's because their zebra pants offended my eyes. Gotta problem with that? Too bad, it's on the survivor to prevent me from catching them.
The behavior itself is discouraged, but not banned by the devs. To call something that is well-within the rules of the game "Toxic" is silly.
By the way, this part where you said "a salty killer doesn't like that he was outplayed" - it's a tactically sound idea to take a difficult target permanently out of play. It's not toxic just because you disagree with the strategy.
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And once again - people seem to completely miss the true core of the camping issue.
CAMPING IS CAUSED BY THE SURVIVORS
Some of you need to watch Marth's group from time to time. If somebody is getting camped, they just gen rush to counter. It hurts the killer's score every time.
Most of us who aren't newbies as killers KNOW that it's better to chase somebody else because we feel the generator pressure without prompting and chasing somebody instead of camping effectively pulls 3 people off gens. HOWEVER....
If somebody does a save before I walk 10 steps away - you just guaranteed a tunnel. You just robbed me of time I need people off generators by rescuing them that quickly so I need that guy dead. I also hate being rescued when the killer is nearby, so you bet your ass I'm going to try to hurt your Benevolance score with a quick knock down.
If you make yourself obvious bait, I'm not going to take it as being obvious like that insults my intelligence. I'm not a chump that's easily baited. I suspect somebody else is nearby in that case... so I've gotten the 3 people I want off gens off the gens. Why should I leave at that point? At the most, I might fake a quick run just to bait your teammate out. Now who's the chump?
If you are being chased and you run around the hook, you've more or less forced the killer to be in the area.
Yes, some killers are always going to camp. That can't be helped. But if you want to them to stop, you have to stop encouraging the behavior by engaging in survivor behavior that doesn't force the camp.
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Myers, hands down. Mostly because of the way he contemptuously throws the body at the end.
Doc comes a close second though. The way he rubs his hands together at the start seems almost gleeful.
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As a killer main, I have to disagree.
Survivors have been looking to get this perk nerfed for the longest time - and we have been telling them to hide behind generators to counter it as a reason why it shouldn't be nerfed. Let's not make hypocrites of ourselves by demanding a change now that they've adapted and done what they are supposed to do.
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Trapper's is indeed underwhelming. personally, I think he should open a trap under the survivor's face then use his foot to slam the survivor's head into the trap - but I'm a mean mofo.
Believe it or not, Wraith is fine from the survivor's perspective. While I would prefer to see an update to the Wraith's mori, I'd be satisfied with the killer's viewpoint of the Mori being updated to share the same perspective as the survivor (much like it does for the Hag)
With Billy, all they need to do is disappear the hammer and I'd be happy.
Pig's Mori I don't mind.
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@Dragonredking said:
@MikeLatin7 said:
@Jack11803 said:
@MikeLatin7I’m gonna make this simple, digging through the code, the clown has 115%. That’s 100% proof he’s the normal speed. Any further claims otherwise are stupid.
go troll somewhere else go make your own post go play a game with your self, stop being a troll
Your notion off what is trolling his perplexing.
It's actually quite simple. Anybody who disagrees with him is a troll.
But people like him (those who refuse to accept hard facts) is why we still have flat earthers.
I'd laugh if it wasn't so damn sad to behold.
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Back when a friend of mine was thinking of getting the game, she asked me the following question.
"Does it have clowns?"
This girl has terrible clouphobia. So bad, her man and myself could barely get her to play Left 4 Dead 2 because of Dark Carnival (she found the honking noise they made when she punched the zombie clowns in the face cathartic, which helped her deal)
My answer of course at the time was
"Not at this time, but I can't promise there won't be one in the future".She picked it up, and I warned her again and again that's likely inevitable due to the number of requests we were seeing the forums for Pennywise. So when it finally happened, I messaged her so she wouldn't be blindsided going into the game (she doesn't follow game news like I do)
She jumped into the PTB and had a look. Once she saw his default outfit, she advised me "That's fine, I can deal with that".
Then she saw the alternate outfit in the shop with that mask that creeps even me out. At that point, I was advised she'd probably have to turn off the game if she ever got a killer who wore that outfit.
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Clown is a solid pick. I wouldn't call him top tier though. However, he certainly makes more loops viable to mind-game now, and that shouldn't be discounted.
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I don't have the mechanical skill to play her.
When I'm survivor though, she's one of two Killer's that still utterly terrifies me. (The other is Myers) But the thing is, I like it. When I'm up against a nurse, the game actually feels like it should as a survivor... like I'm the weakling and should be afraid of the killer.
All killers need to feel like that.
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If you want to keep most of your build, I'd say drop Dying Light for Nurse's Calling. Being able to maintain pressure by goosing healing survivors through walls with your shock is not only essential, but funny as hell.
And remember that people who are "Snapping Out of It" show up on Nurse's Calling.
BTW.... remember Doc has a Railgun Build (Interview Tape and High Stimulus Electrode), this gives him a 35 meter shock. Remember that Nurses Calling reaches 32 meters.... you see where I'm going with this? Not necessarily the "Best" way to play, but entertaining as hell if you have a sadistic streak like me.
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I usually don't run Totems unless I'm leveling a killer and have nothing better (Ruin and Devour Hope are acceptable then)
HOWEVER----
On the doctor, I will admit that Huntress' Lullaby is a guilty pleasure that I indulge in from time to time... because screw your skill checks.
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Nurse and Huntress's reduced speed is necessary to keep them in balance as both reach beyond their arms easily with their power.
Hag is another story. While it's true her power lets her reach beyond her arms, her power requires setup time and her low stature makes it harder to maintain visual contact with the survivors (not to mention the teleport itself is disorienting for a split second). I don't think it would hurt her much to bring her speed up a bit.