FerrousFacade
FerrousFacade
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@vbarraganj14 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050298#Comment_4050298
One issue i have is that a lot of the times you get while not being inside the hitmarkers, even while fully healed
i think this is mostly a ping issue, its just a lot more noticable when there is a glowing ring you're just outside of and you start noticing it at a lower latency then usual. He definitely warrants a fresh look at how the game handles latency.
@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050298#Comment_4050298
Yea im really shocked people aren't figuring this out yet. They're going to hate him within a week or two.
I am having fun facing him now but I'm starting to agree that he will likely need some nerfs once we start seeing killers actually get good with him, I doubt most will get good so I still expect they will be minor, especially if we do end up getting proper anti tunnel. He is way too easy to tunnel with, your team can't really help at all unless you happen to be on a map they can block a full corridor on.
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It is possible to dodge the attack, you just need to jerk your character to a different direction than you were originally moving. The biggest counter to Mind Invasion is remaining unpredictable.
Agree with being unpredictable but I wouldn't call this a dodge. Once the killer sends the m2 there isn't enough time to get out of the radius if he actually lands it underneath you, if the killer predicts you will do this you still get hit. That's not you dodging, its the killer missing.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049687#Comment_4049687
Nothing is guaranteed.. He has to aim in a small radius. Literally dodge.
Unless the killer, you know, aims. With enough practice it will be nearly guaranteed.
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@moses_lg said:
i love how when a new killer comes out yall are so quick to tell us survivors to “just wait a few weeks to adjust, learn, and adapt to them. don’t jump to conclusions super early.” when yall couldn’t even handle the anti tunnel and anti slug ptb for more than 2 days before basically forcing bhvr to pull the plug checks notes, TWICE. funny how the killer that completely ignores the 2 main resources survivors have (windows and pallets) is “perfectly balanced” like nurse just suddenly wasn’t a problem for the past 10 years because of her ability to ignore said pallets and windows.
And how its always "wait to learn how to counter and adapt to the new killer" and no one mentions "wait for killers to learn how to play the new killer." The onus is always on the survivor even when the ability is much more on the killer to hit than the survivor to dodge. You can make it trickier to hit but this killer WILL hit if they have practice. I do enjoy going against him but he is too good at tunneling, you can't body block him like you would a normal killer and facing him when the killer has bad ping is a nightmare.
@SaltyNooty said:
I felt as if it's important to express opinions about new killers and how they're being handled because it directly shows what was and what wasn't changed from the PTB. However, I'm often of the opinion that unless the killer is obviously insanely busted, (Like Kaneki or Krasue), we probably should hold off on saying anything.
I for one, am really enjoying facing off against Vecna. I even made a thread earlier to help out other people understand and grasp his power so they could counter it too; and it's only been like 2 - 3 days since the killer released.
But, this type of stuff happens every time a killer is released; it's not unexpected.
Killer mains will scream and yell that the new killer feels underpowered or try oppress people who express that the new killer feels extremely overpowered
Survivor Mains will scream and yell that the new killer feels overpowered or try oppress people who express that the new killer feels extremely underpowered.
It's one of the main reasons why I stop posting and commenting on here; I just lurk. The DBD community is too far gone to pull their heads out their rears and understand that for a community to thrive, we can't be at each others necks and we should all have an equal amount of say in how certain perks work or killers should be handled.
But then there's BHVR and… well, I'm not touching that topic with a 50 foot pole because we ALL know how that works.
Overall, I think expression opinions and pooling information together to help others is incredibly important; it's just those people that like to gatekeep counter play or oppress others just to have their way that make it look so bad.I don't disagree with the sentiment that people will try to oppress each other but I think you are forgetting how much Krasue and Ghoul were buffed PTB to live and how much that was the cause of them being overpowered. The people making claims of the killers being underpowered have been listened to much more regularly, at least this past year, than anyone else while features survivors have been clamoring for for years have once again been swept under the rug. Ultimately, yes all of these are BHVR's fault but one "side" is clearly being listened to more frequently.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049751#Comment_4049751
Nurse is basically proof as to why the official stats are useless.
55% overall and that stat is 2 years outdated. I literally responded this to you earlier in the thread and you continue to insist otherwise. The official stats also show that it goes up in high MMR. Its really obvious BHVR uses stats in a more nuanced way than you think and have a hell of a lot more than they share with us. Sure they sometimes make dumb decisions but the stats themself are not wrong. Demo, the stat showed that an addon was overused. That stat isn't wrong, their decision of what to do about it was.
This is the most recent stat I can find for nurses overall kill rate, 2 years old and not even that far below 60%. Then we have a more recent one showing it at 67% in high MMR. Stop hiding behind nurse, your information is outdated and lacks nuance.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/433-developer-update-stats -
@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049763#Comment_4049763
I looks it effects more indoor maps (probably not all but I witnessed it on midwitch,gideaon and stranger things map plus larrys too, rpd looks fine).
I don't think it's just indoor maps. Shelter woods main is sometimes missing one or both of its pallets as well. These could have been intended changes but it wasn't included in any patch notes.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049548#Comment_4049548
We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback to pass along to the team, so don't hesitate to shout once you've had a chance to give his a try with these changes.
Can you explain the stance change on the last fix. I recall there being a tip in game about canceling the leap mid swing. Why is it now being called a bug fix? I do think these changes will make Ghoul more enjoyable to face but its inconsistent with what appears to have been an intended feature.
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@TicTac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049179#Comment_4049179
Matchmaking will probably stay really bad, but how can we take that as data? Should i just accept that 300 hours claudette who shivers in a corner bc she heard the tr is on the same level as me? Just bc matchmaking puts us in the same match?
A bit more serious: if we are speaking about a scenario with four good players, we should not use official stats. But we can say this scenario isnt relevant for balance discussion bc it almost never happens bc of matchmaking. So we should balance around those stats/kill rates bc thats the realistic approach. I can agree with that.
But i just wanted to point out that your ideas about chase time and match flow in low and high mmr are probably not realistic.
You can win and win and win as killer and you will probably still play against the mentioned Claudette. And it also goes in the other direction. So its not the same match over and over and the killer wins those matches more often. Its killer stomp, survivor stomp etc and it happens more often for the killer side. And yes, its roughly balances out. But should that be the goal? Is that a good gaming experience?
I guess its good for streamers with their winstreaks. But if they (and every veteran player) wins 90% of their matches on high mmr and the killrate is only 60% (well to be fair kill rate is not a reliable stat bc of hatch), who balances it out? Which player group gets destroyed that much in high mmr?
Its frustrating for everyone except the top. And for the top its probably boring. So yh matchmaking will probably not get better, but thats a big problem.
I don't like matchmaking either but until it changes and stops placing you against/with that player then it is relevant data for what you should expect when queuing up for a match. The actual trial balance doesn't matter if the matchmaker is going to decide the outcome for you. If that changes I will change my opinion. If matchmaking changes and if it then changes kill/escape rate stats I will also change my opinion about those. I would personally prefer a win/loss/draw rate stat broken down by killer and whether or not the survivors are grouped up and by mmr but for some reason BHVR doesn't.
But i just wanted to point out that your ideas about chase time and match flow in low and high mmr are probably not realistic.
I don't think anything else makes logical sense though. I think we would both agree that generators get completed faster when the survivors are higher mmr. Yet the escape rate and kill rate remains relatively constant (high mmr four mans being an outlier). The only way for gens to be completed faster but the other stats to remain the same is if the killer is keeping up, meaning faster chases. If your average chase time against a given survivor is beyond the average then that survivor is likely better than you (or getting very lucky). You will likely still win against that survivor team if you drop that chase and find someone with a chase time against you closer to or below the average. I think this is the true reason high mmr four mans have that outsized escape rate, mismatches from the matchmaker but there isn't someone else on the team closer to your skill that you can target out and if every member of the survivor team is better than you, you should lose. I don't like that meaning the killer gets stomped but a below 50% escape rate means these teams are still losing regularly. A truly skilled killer overcomes them by continuing to have short chases against these teams.
I guess its good for streamers with their winstreaks. But if they (and every veteran player) wins 90% of their matches on high mmr and the killrate is only 60% (well to be fair kill rate is not a reliable stat bc of hatch), who balances it out? Which player group gets destroyed that much in high mmr?
We don't know how wide this "high mmr" bracket really is, we only know that its above the soft cap. The stats that broke out this high mmr also stated that both escape rate and kill rate went up for these players. That's only possible if they are more commonly being matched against players outside this bracket than with each other. These streamers are likely the very top of this high mmr bracket and have outsized results because of that. Its not these players that get destroyed, its the players they get paired against that are above the soft cap but not in this high mmr bracket.
On the survivor side you still can't truly relax at high mmr because one subpar teammate (compared to the killer, they are not necessarily actually bad just not as good as the killer) and you now need to work extra hard to win. On the killer side you just need one of those subpar survivors (again compared to the killer) and its gg. Its why every survivor video from these creators is often them trying their hardest or specific things they are going for outside of actual escape wins while the killer ones are them adding some ridiculous extra challenge on top and still needing to win.
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@TicTac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049070#Comment_4049070
The point is to waste time. Making a killer struggle doesnt mean that you will survive. It means that he has a high chance to lose the match (3 out).
And im talking about a good team of survivor. If it was a solo chase you would just need one good survivor.
You say across all mmr its 30 sec, but you dont see the problem? Like i said low mmr swings highly into the killer favor. And if you have some hours in DBD you also know the matchmaking. Why would you thinknthis data is about fair match between good players? Sadly thats maybe 5% of all matches.
Im all in for an anti-tunnel-mechanic. If the killer is forced to chase me and not the weak link, it would be great.
I would love if they gave this stat and all other stats spread across MMRs and broken down by killer and group size and everything under the sun. I would happily reconsider every opinion I have about the game if they did so.
Here is what we do know. Escape rate is largely constant across all MMRs and all group sizes while total required generator time doesn't actually change. The only outlier is high MMR four mans, a tiny fraction of the playerbase. Given that those teams still have an escape rate below 50% we can surmise that killers are still winning more than they lose against these teams. That means that even when generators are flying these killers can keep up which is only possible if the killer is keeping their chase time short, thus it is safe to assume that average chase time doesn't actually change that much between MMR levels. The only other possibility I see is that chase time actually decreases at high MMR as killer players need to keep up with more generator efficient teams, which means even faster chases.
Put another way, becoming more skilled at survivor increases chase time against killers less skilled than you but killers at your new skill level still keep up. Becoming more skilled at killer decreases chase time against survivors less skilled than you but survivors at your new skill level still keep up. The overall result is roughly similar chase times across MMR with changes only noticeable when there is a skill gap.
Do you think we are actually going to see real improvements in matchmaking? I don't and if we do content creators will complain about their queue times or that all their matches have become more difficult and the changes will be reverted or loosened. I have seen too many killer players with incredibly high kill rates claim that the game is survivor sided to believe that they are OK with only winning half of or slightly more than half of their matches (the result of a fair matchmaking system while maintaining a 60% kill rate). Until matchmaking changes these skill gaps matter. Its not like I can get into a non-custom match without going through matchmaking. The current matchmaking implementation may suck but unless that changes the data it produces is valid for the current state of DbD and what you can expect when you queue up for a match, a game that largely favors the killer side despite all the protest and claims to the contrary.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048859#Comment_4048859
My point is that you are basically saying that "X thing is broken because top level players can exploit it" and when people point out the stats showing that thing as actually not being that good the answer is "average players drag that down and inflate other ones"
You don't get to do that without also contending with the fact that there are 5 viable killers at the top level. Either:
- You balance the game around top level players
- You balance the game around average level players
It honestly seems like what you are asking for is that the devs balance around average survivors, but around top level killers. Which is quite frankly hella biased.
The game is already balanced around the average killer player and top tier survivors. Yet I see far more calls to buff killers and nerf survivors than vice versa. Its hella biased and far more prevalent than the other way around. Changes that might have helped the average survivor have a more enjoyable time even if they still lose were shot down in days.
I would agree that the game becomes largely survivor sided at the very top level (outside of a couple killers) but we are literally talking about the best survivors in the world in extreme coordination with each other. If every other level of play is largely killer sided (yes, killer dependent) and this one level is largely survivor sided then it isn't a problem and to some extent it's earned.
If we want to balance around the average survivor as well then we need to stop considering SWF to be such a problem when its literally just a tiny fraction of the player base that pushes their escape rate up. Someone unable to contend with a four man has a skill issue of their own and official stats back this up. Even those old stats with nurses overall kill rate had the lowest kill rate killer at 51%, Doctor. Sure buff the killers that have a below 60% kill rate overall and that only goes down as MMR increases but the idea that the game isn't already balancing around the average killer is just untrue.
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4047925#Comment_4047925
You should not be trying to gain distance on a ghoul this is holding W one of the things i just told you would get you destroyed by ghoul.
Ghouls power is no where near as a effective like blight or nurse in loops. If you cant loop a ghoul when hes m1ing thats just a get good situation. You shouldn't be calling for nerfs just because you cant hold W and pre-drop pallets and vault windows around the map until 4 gens pop.
Ghoul isnt skilless just because you cant hold W, legions first hit is skilless aswell but your not complaining because his mobility isnt as good. lol be real.
Windows block. Bloodlust exists. Eventually, you have to use the resource and then W to next one which requires distance. Since the first hit is totally free you only need a single m1 which doesn't take any real time if you are remotely decent playing killer even against a skilled survivor. Bloodlust one takes 15 seconds to activate and is enough to guarantee a hit at many loops, ten more seconds and you hit two. That's a thirty second chase right there with the ghoul just having to look at you and then gain bloodlust. Zero skill required.
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@TicTac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049012#Comment_4049012
"Yet the rest of your post is about whether or not the survivor is skilled. You are happy to consider survivor skill but ignore the killer skill and agency. Its right there in your post."
And thats exactly the us vs. them-thematic. And maybe im not wording this correctly bc english is not my native language, but i will try. You assume that i belong to the killer faction, bc i do only write about survivor skill. You assume that im bashing survivor for their skill level and that i think killer are more skilled. But the reason im not writing about killer skill is that it doesnt matter for this specific topic. For example: If you are saying Blight is op, i dont answer with BNP are op. Thats not a constructive discussion.
In my opinion he tunneling problem has nothing to do with killer player skill bc killer on all skill level do it. Its more the average balance on the low level. A bad killer player will mostly win against bad survivor player. The killer doesnt need to learn how to chase, bc the survivor cant loop.
That also means if a good killer tries to tunnel against survivor of the same skill level, he will struggle. It depends obviously on the killer choice.
And obviously a bad player (boosted through tunneling) has no chance. The amount of Kaneki which dced against me, bc they had no clue what to do in chase, is quite high. But here comes the matchmaking. Those killer could have just chased another survivor in the match and would have won. They just didnt know and im playing a bit aggressive to take chase. But i cant do anything if a bad teammate gets tunneled. If they cant loop, one bodyblock doesnt help much.
I am not placing you in any faction, I am saying you are falling for the exact same doublethink that pervades the community. The killer's skill absolutely matters in a tunnel out situation. The idea that it doesn't is absolute insanity. If the expectation is that the survivor must be better than the killer in order to win then we have a problem, one caused by the skill level required of the killer to perform a tunnel out and the skill level required of the survivor being tunneled out to not have their entire team lose on the spot. The skill level of both players matters.
That also means if a good killer tries to tunnel against survivor of the same skill level, he will struggle. It depends obviously on the killer choice.
In another thread someone would argue that the point of chase isn't to totally elude the killer, its to buy as much time as possible for your team (directly contradictory to a skilled survivor being able to avoid a tunnel out). If the players are really at the same skill level then the chase will last around 30 seconds (average chase time across all MMR for a single survivor across the whole match was 60 seconds when it was last provided to us, assume three chases and added 10 seconds because that only tracked chase mechanic). That isn't enough time for the survivors to get much done. I have also had ghouls and blights and probably every killer DC against me as well, it was quite obvious that I was much better at the game than they were. We were not at the same skill level.
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@TicTac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048825#Comment_4048825
Could you please stop with this lame us vs. them? I play more survivor than killer.
The topic has just nothing to do with killer skill. Well, if hes really bad, you dont need bodyblocks, but thats rare, bc bloodlust gives even the worst killer a hit after a while. (Resetting bloodlust with a timed bodyblock is also really good)
Its not free pressure. Everything is a time game. The question is how much does the bodyblock extend the chase. 30 sec would be 60 sec (two survivor on gens). It could be worth it, but it also could be better to sit only on gens. A bodyblock against Blight in a deadzone is probably not even worth ten. (bodyblocking his power is hard, but thats far better bc of his cooldown)
So a bodyblock needs good game knowledge and comms make it easier. (I play mostly solo que). The killer just needs to chase the unhooked survivor, ignore all macro gameplay, so his experience as player doesnt really matter. A killer player doesnt even need to learn to chase if a survivor cant loop.
Nothing in my post is us vs them outside of what I honestly see from killers all the time. I personally am not asking for the overall balance to change at all and am much happier with the existing balance than the average person and I also primarily solo queue.
I want tunneling removed because I think it is bad for the gameplay experience and it has everything to do with killer skill. Skilled survivors lose to a tunnel out all the time from killers that are not as skilled as they are. It takes much much more effort and skill from the survivor than it does the killer. It really is free pressure with little effort, that you can beat survivors better than you with it is proof of that.
All you have to do is spend a little bit of time on youtube, here, or the killer subreddit and the doublethink shows up from even the biggest names in the game. It is my single greatest issue with the community. They watch killers win match after match and then those same people claim the game is survivor sided or that survivors need nerfing and then claim they are "just telling it like it is." Its either zero self reflection or being intentionally misleading for their audiences but those people believe them. When the survivors don't win its because they are bad. When the killer doesn't win something else is the problem often contradictory problems. The actual stats contradict this but those get ignored.
The topic has just nothing to do with killer skill.
Yet the rest of your post is about whether or not the survivor is skilled. You are happy to consider survivor skill but ignore the killer skill and agency. Its right there in your post.
Edit: I don't even actually want to see tunneling removed. I just want there to be an actual trade-off to it or something that ensures I don't lose on the spot for having a single bad teammate.
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@Hannacia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048670#Comment_4048670
This! People tend to forget or not care about the fact that the hit through the wall might have actually happened while the survivor was not behind the wall.
I've had this happen multiple times. I see the hit clearly happen way before the survivor is behind a wall or rock or any obstacle, but when i pull closer the survivor is behind something making the hit look janky.
For some reason i've noticed this happen more with console folks. Its the same thing after i down someone and they teleport 2 meters forward, happens a lot with console players.
Yesterday, I got hit by a ghoul while standing on top of Dead Dawg Saloon gallows while he dashed underneath it. He was full underneath gallows and the game went, that's a hit. It didn't just look janky, it made no sense whatsoever. There is no amount of hitbox or hitscan or other excuse anyone can make to make that hit OK. The same mechanism is what allows him to get those hits through walls, they both need to go. The whole hitscan free hit needs to go, it will never be OK for a survivor to become injured because the killer looked in their general direction especially not when that same killer has insane mobility.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048781#Comment_4048781
And the answer i always get when talking about balance is we shouldn't balance for the top tier players because as you say the vast majority of matches are with "average and below average" players, so we need to be balancing around them.
Guess what, you can't have it both ways. If you balance the game around average level players, you must do that, and by definition that means that ghoul and nurse and blight are fine (and in the case of nurse she needs buffs) because they are always much lower in the kill rates than other killers.
If however you want to talk about balancing around top tier players, and that ghoul/nurse/blight are a problem. I would be happy to have that discussion, but then are you ready to deal with the consequences of that and the fact that at those levels we have like 6 killers who are even viable at that level out of the 40+ we have?
The last time we were given stats for nurse outside of just high MMR was 2024 where it was 55%, below 60 but not by much. Those same stats put Blight at a 59% kill rate and ranked him at 15th, the Japan stats don't have Blights kill rate but put him at 7th just above ghoul. Hillbilly, at the time, had a 54% kill rate. Suffice to say things have changed since we were given more holistic stats. Cling to those old ones if you want but they don't reflect current DbD.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048822#Comment_4048822
If you scroll you can clearly see several comments were removed.
I see one
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@TicTac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048529#Comment_4048529
Yes, altruism throws the game bc people are bad at it. They often just block immediately. But thats useless for me if im at the pallet. If i cant make the next one, im just watching the wipe animation of the killer.
With that strategy they are just throwing their health states away. But theres no tutorial, so how should they know?
And we immediately return to the survivors being bad while the killer has zero agency whatsoever. Predictable. If I body block at the right time and the killer hits me and then continues after the tunnel out they still get the tunnel out. Either I give another, possibly throwing the game on the spot, hope another teammate does, or go back to gens and hope the teammate lasts. No matter the choice its all free pressure for the killer as the survivors are off gens, giving free health states, or they get the tunnel out, lose lose lose.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048808#Comment_4048808
The official stats are saying that Freddy, Dredge, Sadako, and Pig have a higher kill rate than Ghoul, in the majority of games.
For most players in the game, Dredge and Pig have a higher kill rate than Ghoul, and are therefore more imbalanced at the average skill level.
You are literally the first person to bring up ghoul in this thread, no one else did. They did not give the kill rate for any of the killers in these stats. It could be 60%, it could be much higher. When they gave us stats with the kill rates all members of the top 5 had over a 60 percent kill rate (early last year). When we did get it split into both Freddy still had a high kill rate in high MMR and for all we know Sadako and Pig could be just outside the top 5 we were given since they didn't give us the full list. Hell, Vecna had a 66% kill rate in all MMR in those stats and then they went and buffed him. All Conveniently ignored.
On the other side, the only survivors that even really move the needle are four mans in high MMR and they still don't break a 50% escape rate but I see so many people claim these teams are unbeatable, stats prove them wrong. With the current game setup there isn't even a way to nerf them without also hitting much more casual SWF who sit right around expected 40% escape rate.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048781#Comment_4048781
Where is the proof that Ghoul is in the top 5?
You are conveniently ignoring Ghoul sitting right below this at number 8. You are the one bringing them up not being in the top 5, no one else did. You are being intentionally manipulative.
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@CatManThree said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048529#Comment_4048529
I play Trapper quite a lot I know. Trapper is a nightmare to play against good survivors if you don't have the right addons though in most situations and I can attest to this, especially if you get a ######### map.
That aside, I feel its worth pointing out how this Chaos Shuffle uses MMR. If you don't play Trapper much you might be getting worse players.If you don't play Trapper much you might be getting worse players.
And I was also told the soft cap is really easy to reach. Which is it? Because it can't be both. Besides killer MMR is also supposedly somewhat shared so the exact amount I played Trapper before doesn't actually matter. But also matchmaking sucks and will regularly create mismatches.
Everywhere people talk about this game, the moment anyone claims the killer role isn't as bad as its being made out to be one of these excuses comes out and they regularly contradict each other. Then we watch killer content creators win 50 matches in a row but somehow, someway we should ignore that and focus just on what they say. Even Otz spends a decent chunk of his killer matches complaining and then wins. Its doublethink on doublethink on doublethink. When that stops I will start taking it seriously.
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@Spicyburgers said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048534#Comment_4048534
Read my text messages above, I already answered what needs to be done against such maniacs.
But if it is not prohibited by the game, then the problem is in your experienceRead my comments above, you randomly brought up endgame saves after I talked about trying to help prevent a tunnel out on a teammate giving the killer free pressure. Your comments to me are complete non-sequiturs, they have nothing to do with what I am saying.
No where do I say you shouldn't do any of this. I am simply pointing out that having decent teammates does not help as much against tunneling as you claim so long as the killer is decent at the role. My only other point is that most people who play the game are bad at it but we primarily see that statement applied solely to the survivor role.
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@Spicyburgers said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048529#Comment_4048529
The gate is energized, and the maniac begins guarding your savior, who is only in the first stage of the ritual. Do I need to explain how to save him with the help of two healthy partners?
Ya, I know how to two man save in endgame. It has nothing to do with what I said or the scenario being discussed but as usual when anything disagrees with something on the killer side they move the goalposts or try to turn it around and make you look like the bad player (this is clearly what you are trying to do here). If the killer plays like trash the whole match to get to that point why should they win?
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@CatManThree said:
If anything Chaos Shuffle more exposes how much a number of killers suffer due to reliance on specific addons and perks. Like how absolutely miserable Trapper is in Chaos Shuffle without access to at least one of his red addons if not just Bloody Coils specifically.
If anything Chaos Shuffle (and 2v8) more exposes how bad most people are at the killer role. People love to bombard survivors with the idea that most are bad but refuse to do the same for killers despite it also being true. The game is designed for survivors to lose more often resulting in killers thinking they are better than they really are.
I've gone out of my way this Chaos Shuffle to play "low tier" killers because I got four Ghouls in a row playing survivor and have been doing just fine, even Trapper and this includes at least one match I let everyone go (sucker for a lute). Trapper isn't strong but he isn't doing nearly as badly as this community makes it sound like he is.
@Venusa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048520#Comment_4048520
None of what you described applies to Chaos Shuffle or solo queue.
You don’t get to “combine Jill and Claudette’s perks” in Chaos Shuffle. That alone makes this advice irrelevant.
And “good teammates will prevent it” isn’t a strategy. You can’t guarantee coordination, body blocks, or smart trades in solo queue, especially in a random-perk mode.
This is exactly the issue with saying “learn to play”, it ignores mode restrictions and the reality of solo queue. When a killer commits to tunneling, there is no skill-based counter you can reliably force.
And “good teammates will prevent it” isn’t a strategy. You can’t guarantee coordination, body blocks, or smart trades in solo queue, especially in a random-perk mode.
And half the time this level of altruism just ends up throwing the game for the survivors as the killer downs the blocker and continues after the tunnel out, its free pressure for the killer that often gives them a snowball win on the spot.
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I think Nemi still needs just a little bit more love but the extra zombies has been fun for me on both sides (I didn't play Nemi at all but a duo did), the extra info alone is a huge and I think undervalued part of the additional zombies. Marvin's blood or a slightly weakened version of it sounds good to me.
Slinger is a lot harder since he is already quite strong 1v1 and extremely oppressive 2v1 but something to assist mobility or a reduced terror radius could help.
@Abbzy said:
Yeah slinger needs buffs because that reload speed isnt even his best i believe (its not his green/blue addon).
Pyramid head needs some range buffs or his iri addon for range because 1,5 longer range isnt that great and he didnt got anything usefull than small range and having longer trails on the ground (the killer instinct isnt bad but I dont consider it that great compare to other things like dounbe the duration of his power from 10 to 20 seconds i believe).
Nemesis still needs marvins i think but having 4 zombies is still good I only hope it wont split the game into two like twins changes do.
I think additional range on PH would be fun but likely wouldn't make him much stronger. Part of the problem right now is that the attack travels from his sword along the attack path, shooting from further just gives the survivor more time to dodge. The iri that breaks pallets (without the additional cooldown) might be OK or the mangled/hemorrhaged addon. I do think part of PH's weakness is that he is just hard to hit with unless you practice a lot so some of his weakness is just people like me playing him poorly.
@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4044955#Comment_4044955
Killer queue is so long because too many players queues as killer and there are not enough survivors. If you make the killer stronger, even more people will queue as killer and less as survivor, thus extending the queue further.
I don't think we will ever see a shorter queue time for killer in 2v8, maybe it could be reduced a bit but killer will always draw more people. Playing with a friend on a role you can't normally do so is just impossible to trump. I play a lot more killer in 2v8 than I do in 1v4, in large part because I can queue with a friend and play survivor while waiting, and would bet I am not the only one doing that. The fun of the mode on both sides needs to be prioritized above queue times.
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@AlanWoke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4044435#Comment_4044435
I have never gotten a flashlight save even though I claim to be an Alan Wake main. The torchbearer is the anime training arc I need to do the champion of light justice.
Good luck o7
I personally brought a yellow (green) flashy into every chaos shuffle match to do this since the couple of perks that mention items usually want you to not have a medkit while others require a flashy. Got my first ever flashbang save with the class, not a perk I typically run.
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I have been playing a ton of 2v8 on the PTB. Queue times have been surprisingly similar to what it was last time it came around ~20 minutes for killer/instant for survivor. It does depend on time of day though, I have seen it spike higher and the estimate is sometimes off.
Chucky is fun and I am terrible with him.
Torchbearer is a great class… for throwing the game, still fun though.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4043262#Comment_4043262
If survivors do gens and dont create just big hive of gens (they do them from start, from edges and leave the centre but kinda forgeting for late game where pallets will be lost and killers will have easy time protecting this area thats why I lost like third of my survivor games in 2v8 because other survviors dont use enough brain power like people on higher level do or did when 3gens were a thing you just couldnt do all gens close to you but you had to think more strategically here).
Survivors can rush all gens before killers can even kill 4 of them and I had this in many games where just oni+nurse were destroying us and we did first gen on 6 hooks and 4 of us escaped almost 5 if oni wasnt charged so the comeback mechanic is very strong tool you must use to your benefit and work on multiple gens or max in duos spread when the bonus is up, then its just fast progress with no counter unless you create cluster of gens and killers you go against arent stupid to leave it and have high mobility which there is always one with mibility like spirit,blight,wesker.
This mode is perfect I have 64% kill rate and 50% escape rate (I did some bs in few games which caused me to die or went for late save and it didnt worked out so if I played more safe i bet I had even more) and to oyur info 70 kill rate doesnt mean you kill more than half of survivors all the time so its balanced.
And if the killer gets downs real fast everyone can end up on hook and the killers win, I have won 2v8 matches that way. Describing a perfect scenario and ignoring what the opponent can do to prevent that is ridiculous. The comeback mechanic has won me games on both sides but as usual you only look at how it can help survivors and downplay everything that helps killers. The only changes I want for the game mode are more killers, more classes, the removal of blast mine, and toning down the sb on button click or reverting it to normal sb activation.
My only argument here is that the mode is not as survivor sided as people here love to make it out to be. The 70% kill rate is from someone else that clearly thinks the game mode is giga survivor sided. I didn't say that it meant you kill at least half the survivors every match but there is no way to have a 70% kill rate without killing more than half of the survivors in the majority of your matches, they are winning more of their matches than they are losing just like you are and then turning around and claiming the mode is incredibly survivor sided. Its ignoring the evidence right in front of their face.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4043249#Comment_4043249
Its 2v8 and escaping here isnt bad unless your teammates are doing everything except gens then its very hard but not impossible because comeback mechanick can give you huge comeback, I have escaped so mayn games we were loosing hard from the start and killers got only 4 kills even they deserved 8k for how well they played but when just 3 gens pop in one minute with 8 people being alive well its going downhill fast.
Its meant to be a casual mode. It is a bit survivor sided but people act like its an 8 out every match. My escape rate is fine and so is my kill rate and I am a much better survivor than I am killer. If I can get a 60% kill rate then just about anyone can. That isn't the giga survivor sided mode people claim.
Edit: for the record I hated blast mine in the last one and don't like the new class either I am simply stating that the mode isn't as survivor sided as people make it out to be
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@The_Count said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4043232#Comment_4043232
I have 70%, but you have to tunnel like crazy because of the comeback mechanic that increase gen repair speeds by hook, so it's impossible to win if you try 16 hooks before start killing survs.
Also it's so stressful that, at least for me, it's not worth my time anymore.
Also the mode is indeed surv sided. Everybody knows that. BHVR thinks that to make more survs to play they need to be incredibly busted instead of the obvious that is lack o new things to do with each iteration.https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4043235#Comment_4043235
Awesome, right?
Now a 4-man bully squad can join 2v8 and screw killers in this mode too.Ah yes, everybody knows that, excellent argument. Everybody also knew that the sun revolved around the Earth. If you have a 70% kill rate that is close to winning every match. I did not need to tunnel intentionally at all to get my results. How high do the kill rates need to be to satisfy you? At what point does it not become survivor sided? People saying it doesn't make it true.
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I am a mediocre killer and I still have around a 60% kill rate in 2v8 on the killers I have experience with. Even ghostface I have a 59% kill rate with. Claims that the mode is survivor sided are incredibly overblown.
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@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4042384#Comment_4042384
It's only half of the problem, a lesser half. DbD has no server validation for simple client actions, so there are cheats that would be plainly impossible to implement in any other game. You don't need anti-cheat to detect that someone is using a perk they don't have, or running faster with no proper reason.
Exactly this. Someone will always find a way around whatever anti-cheat or other system gets placed on client machines. BHVR has no control over these devices.
Meanwhile, BHVR has total control over the servers and whether or not they accept whatever action a client is trying to take.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4042199#Comment_4042199
Depends on the blight because even good ghouls cant down you super fast on some loops and have to loop as m1 killer but good blight, very good one can down you 3x faster than good ghoul just look (you like comp if I remember) at hens (its before ghouls second nerf I think) video on ghoul vs other killers where he plays I belive knightlight vs obis and that games with blight were way faster than ghouls where even with free hit and strong vault he still couldnt match blights leathality if blight player hits most of his rushes.
In general most of ghoul players arent that good (they lack or dont even know his techs and have no idea of his high skill ceiling and if you dont believe just look it up he has solid bodyblock cutt off with his power that I bet is harder than blight or nurse due to fast reaction anc precision plus autoaim srewing you up). So many ghouls arent that good at outplaying loops compare to blight players in general and they only benefit with his easy pick up compare to blight.
Ghoul is stil very strong killer but his power wasnt never beyoned top blights even when he had all those busted things after release not to mention prime blight that is the version momoseventh made that ove 2000 winstreak was arguably strongest killer in the game we ever had and for long time.
I agree blight is stronger and I am way more likely to beat the ghoul than the blight. The first hit ghoul gets on you just feels so bad to play against I would rather a blight.
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@Munky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4042197#Comment_4042197
Well, not if you are unlucky like me to get 3 in a row, possibly the same person. But point is you die so fast that you get a penalty for it… you are done playing for that day.
Damn, I didn't even think about the penalty. Really sucks.
@Munky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4042104#Comment_4042104
omg yes like wth I had so many of these yesterday… I'm always super nervous alrdy in the loading screen, when I see the 4man squad make anniversary offerings like 105 106 107 108 And me dropping the 109%… I always feel like they can see what my build is and they react to it in such a way. And as it turns out during the match, so many sus stuff happens, untill I actually overpower them and then they go blatant.
I don't actually know for sure that a cheated client works this way for the record. Might just let you pick whatever regardless of inventory. Still using one in a match should be findable or an error coming up somewhere if they don't really have it in their inventory.
The thought came from a twins match where they had year 3. If I read release dates right earliest they could have is 5. Were going for subtle via pwyf.
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@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
I don't mind Blight depending on the build, plus crouch tech still exists and makes versing him a lot more bearable to be fair, a thing I notice is how a ton of Blights play the exact same, so it's kind of easy to predict what they are going to do, that's how I ended up getting better at versing them, you just got to prepare your next move carefully.
I'd rather verse Blight 1,000 times than verse Ghoul at all, sure, a good blight is very annoying, but at least you got to put SOME effort into playing Blight, Ghoul = free kills with little effort required.
Blight over ghoul any day, even a sweaty one. There is no way to make a hit that free feel good. It makes Plague blush and Legion weep.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4042194#Comment_4042194
I had a cheating Myers last week. He wasnt subtle about it though lol everyone dropped dead within 20s of the match starting
Ya, the obvious ones are so obvious I think they take up most of the air on that side of the conversation. At least it's over quick lol
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@R3b3l54TTV said:
Had a Tiffany who knew where everyone was at all times but did not have a single aura reader. The only thing I could have figured to make sense was a special headset for specific audio enhancers but it was too uncanny.
I honestly think there are more cheaters on the killer side than people think, I don't actually think there are a lot on either side for the record. The do for sure exist and obviously matches against them will stick out, so they may appear more common in your memory. As with anything in this game you can get a bad night and get multiple which really sucks.
A subtle cheating killer would be much harder to pick up on than a subtle survivor. 1% faster would help at a lot of loops and over the course of a whole match while being virtually undetectable. Cheated aura reads would be virtually undetectable, were they cheating or did they just get lucky. The unsubtle cheating ones are just so obvious they really stick out.
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Its especially sad given how easy some of these cheaters would be to find. Many have offerings from an anniversary before the character was released. The inventory of characters on every account is sitting in a database somewhere, a simple script could find these mismatches easy.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4041959#Comment_4041959
I'm saying we used to have to play games like SF4 on pings averaging around 100+ms for anything not the next state over, with 5 frames of input delay baked in, with delay based netcode on top of that, while expected to be able to perform inputs with 1/60th of a second accuracy. People grossly overemphasize what they consider to be unplayable in regards to latency's impact in this game, because they focus on the most extreme cases of desync issues and imply that all gameplay running in the "unfavorable middle" must be the sole reason they are losing.
The point of my advice is that it supercedes that. Remember, this is about people wanting the ability to disconnect for free, because the abandon mechanic is becoming another form of match shopping in people's minds.
I agree that people do exaggerate on what is unplayable and I should have stated by now that I am against abandoning in this situation (and pretty much all but the most extreme situations). I do think we are seeing more desire for abandons because of an increase in matches that feel hopeless, that isn't a reason to give up but I can empathize with that feeling. I do mean this on both sides as well, there are 3 killer DCs in my last thirty matches and I know there are a few more if I had my last 50, that is unusual for me.
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@AcesSpeedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4041779#Comment_4041779
anything above 60 is bad ping. any higher and you're playing a complete different game to everyone on normal ping around 20-50ms
Ping plays a significant role but decent net code and reasonable working hit validation can alleviate the problem for pings higher than this. Under current conditions I would agree that it becomes a problem quite quickly but it is possible to have a quality functional match against opponents with higher ping if BHVR is willing to put the work in.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4041996#Comment_4041996
I've seen a few suggestions that instead of infection being removed completely when being hooked, it'll be transferred to the unhooker when you get unhooked instead.
Not sure how fun that'd be but it seems reasonable on paper.
Ya, I've seen the suggestion and would for sure be OK testing it out. Agree that it seems reasonable on paper but things that look like a nerf on paper have turned out to be a buff. Hard to say exactly how that one change would snowball out, still worth a try.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
She's just not a very well designed killer, and this is the only thing she has going for her at this point.
She suffers incredibly from bodyblocking, has to essentially eat a 5s stun to deal with pallets she can't mindgame, and has trouble keeping infection going ever since her nerf.
While she's crazy in chase, she's super easy to counter from a macro perspective. One bodyblocker can cause her so much trouble. She somehow manages to be able to be super unfun for both sides at her extremes.
She's a perfect example of a poorly designed killer. Tiny number tweaks push her from totally broken to incredibly weak. I still think she's busted at a bunch of tiles in the hands of someone that has practiced the lunge but just a bit of help from a decent teammate makes that moot.
Remaining infected off hook and the egregious auto aim needed to go but she does need something infection related to help her with that macro. Problem I see is that once again what sounds like a little help could easily push her right back over the top. Take away the bodyblocking and she loses most of her counterplay.
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I will never forget a match where I faced a 3000 hour huntress as a 600 hour player at the time. The only teammate who's hours I could see had 50 but the other two were a Bill with a single perk and a Nea urban evading in basement.
No reasonable system would put that match together, even via backfilling.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4041905#Comment_4041905
I'm not talking about latency over 200 where people are teleporting around. I'm saying that 80-120 is not that. Visual desync doesn't occur that badly except for cases where visual representations are misleading, like how survivors lean forward but their hurtbox does not and they get hit by a projectile that has a larger hurtbox than its visual. I've played on (what I assume to be) a western european server without issues that bad, and that was generally in the range of around 130.
It doesn't need to be teleport around level for a survivors position to be off and in a game where tiny position differences matter a lot it can become a problem much sooner. I've seen plenty of people with more experience than me in the game note bad hits at pings that low and my personal experience lines up with theirs. I'm not saying your experience is wrong and perhaps something in the handling has changed since then that has made it worse. It's possible which server you play on could make it better/worse based on how much other traffic the data center receives or other factors specific to that server. I also absolutely leave open the possibility that something in the handling of all this is simply bugged and that there are other issues at play making it worse. From a solely technical standpoint I agree that it shouldn't be occurring at 80-120 as much as it is but for me it really is that level where I start to notice it happening.
I am mostly talking about vaults and getting hit by air. Huntress and her bowling ball hatchets are another issue and she weirdly tends to get validated more than others. I've definitely gotten hits with her on low ping that disappear, lends credence to the possibility that the whole system is bugged.
@Amanova said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4041905#Comment_4041905
Well, it might hurt some killers if they try to shoot from afar, but at close range you're unlikely to counter it after you vault or go behind a wall
I'm not disagreeing just want to note there are downsides on the other side as well and I would hope any solution to this helps them as well without giving them an actual advantage.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4041781#Comment_4041781
I understand that high ping disproportionately impacts survivors compared to killers, my point is that 80-120 is not very high ping and is considered playable even in games with 1/60th of a second timing for things. This game is nowhere near that demanding, it just reduces your reaction window. You're only going to get stuff in the 30 range if all parties are fairly close geographically and have both consistently good up and down speeds. You're basically saying a very large percentage of people should just never get matches.
Also really outlining why the abandon feature might not have been the best solution in this form.
It isn't about reaction time, its about distances, which latency effects as well. This game is built around survivors maintaining a safe distance from the killer using the few resources available to them. Every bit of latency on both sides alters the distance between the survivor and killer. You may already know this but, to some extent each client has to "predict" what the other side is going to do to at least partially compensate for latency, this is why when someone lags out you see them continuously run into a wall, your client is still predicting their movement and since it hasn't received a command to change direction the player continues to run in whatever direction your client last knew they were running in. The higher the latency the further off this prediction becomes. This positioning gets reconciled occasionally and may look like a teleport if it is particularly off but that too is effected by latency.
A survivor can get hit past a vault because it looks like a reasonable hit on the killers client but not because of reaction time It happens because the vault is literally happening later on the killers client and you weren't actually at a safe distance to vault but only from the killer clients perspective, to them you are getting hit mid vault. No reaction time can save you from that.
Its hard to say how much of this is actually just due to latency, how much is attributable to the servers, and how much is because of the code that predicts movements but the net sum is hits that shouldn't happen occurring at a lower latency than you might expect from other games. There just isn't a large margin for error. I personally start getting hit as I am sliding off the other end of a pallet at somewhere around 100 ping on the killer, my own ping tends to sit around 35.
All of this would potentially be fine if survivors respawned or had many health states but you can be dead and out of the match in as few as 4 hits. It messes with any muscle memory you may have built up about how much distance is safe at known structures and interferes with learning it in the first place. Tiny differences in distance are all that separate a hit from a miss and it can make all the difference if you are being tunneled out.
I'm not going to put a specific number on what is reasonable because a lot of factors could potentially be altered and there is some amount that you do just have to accept as always going to exist in an online game. However, we do at least need to stop incentivizing high ping and bad hits, it makes the game much more frustrating than it needs to be. Some killers might think more survivors are bad than actually are solely because they get hits that they shouldn't due to not realizing how much their high ping is helping them.
@Amanova said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4041779#Comment_4041779
It's bad for the survivor, but not for the killer, because when he's close to the survivor, he do unreal hits when the action is already completed on the survivor's side. The same thing applies to their powers. So if the devs can't fix this, then let them add the abandon feature since they've started adding it to everywhere.
There are situations where the killers bad ping does in fact hurt them. Gen grabs appear to be effected by both the ping of the killer and the ping of the survivor being grabbed. I have personally gotten completion of a gen grab quest where I clearly initiated a grab and then the animation stopped and the survivor ran off. Some killer powers stop responding properly beyond a certain threshold. I also had a kind of funny match against a springtrap with really high ping, I got to watch him stand at generators and pallets for a full half minute before they actually completed the action.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4041811#Comment_4041811
To be clear though i do think this game is killer sided overall. Survivors as a whole team requires coordination to beat many of the killer roster these days if the killer player is good and most players are too casual for this. Even with coordinated skilled swfs, against a high tier killer, it’s not an easy nor guaranteed 3-4 escape. My assumption why survivor over there has higher escape rates is literally due to mindset only. They play the games out and especially Korea probably already has a tryhard esports mindset which is what survivor demands.
Had another thought.
One way the more tryhard mindset on both sides could work would be that killers only really give up by DC, at least in NA. I basically never see them just go hide in the basement or something like that. Matches where the survivors give up can be DC but you do see them give up by other means as well. Whether its happening on the survivor side or the killer side DC/give up do tend to occur in matches that appear to be already heading towards a loss for the side giving up, sure they might pull it back but most of the time it doesn't happen especially if its the sort of player that gives up.
If we see fewer DCs from killers in Asia, especially during matches headed towards a loss, and the number of matches killers DC from elsewhere in the world is large enough that could artificially deflate escape rates/inflate kill rates since the DC matches are not counted. Hard to say if that would be enough without DC numbers but it is a potential explanation and an excellent reason for neither side to give up. If you want your main to get buffs make sure their kill rate is low lol. There are other combinations of DCs/DC timing (one survivor DCing while dying but the other three escape) that could cause this, so it doesn't have to just be killer DCs but DCs would be involved.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4041811#Comment_4041811
To be clear though i do think this game is killer sided overall. Survivors as a whole team requires coordination to beat many of the killer roster these days if the killer player is good and most players are too casual for this. Even with coordinated skilled swfs, against a high tier killer, it’s not an easy nor guaranteed 3-4 escape. My assumption why survivor over there has higher escape rates is literally due to mindset only. They play the games out and especially Korea probably already has a tryhard esports mindset which is what survivor demands.
I just can't see it being mindset, if it was just mindset that should apply to both sides of the game. I do also think the game becomes largely survivor sided for the top couple percentage of the player base with it being largely killer sided otherwise as well. Most people don't make it up there, if people are try harding on both sides we should see things level out. One possibility could be killer selection but why wouldn't a try hard pick try hard killers, they do show as a bit different in the Japan stats but not that different.
Edit: One way the more tryhard mindset on both sides could work would be that killers only really give up by DC at least in NA. I rarely see them just go hide in the basement or something like that. Matches where the survivors give up can be DC but you do see them give up by other means as well. Whether its happening on the survivor side or the killer side DC/give up tends to occur in matches that appear to be already heading towards a loss for the side giving up. If we see fewer DCs from killers in Asia, especially during matches headed towards a loss, and the number of matches killers DC from elsewhere in the world is large enough that could artificially deflate escape rates/inflate kill rates since the DC matches are not counted. Hard to say if that would be enough without DC numbers but it is a potential explanation and an excellent reason for neither side to give up.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4041793#Comment_4041793
Well i’ve never said that it’s killer or survivor sided over there. It’s just to disprove this notion that asian players live in a different world. They play typical dbd like us just with seemingly less ragequits.
Fair and point taken. Sadly have to agree about ragequits in NA, though it does vary day to day. I've never expected the game to be played different over there but something does have to explain the difference in kill rate and I do like to speculate.
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4041766#Comment_4041766
I think this response actually supports my concerns.
You agree gen speeds have been nerfed but say “not enough.” That’s exactly the issue, what counts as “enough” is subjective. For some players the current state is fine, for others it never will be. There’s no objective gen speed threshold where tunneling suddenly stops, because tunneling isn’t purely a gen speed problem.
You also acknowledge that some killers will tunnel regardless of gen speeds or whether they need to or not. That’s my point. If tunneling still happens when gen pressure isn’t the issue because they’re playing Nurse, Blight, Ghoul, etc. then slowing gens further can’t logically be the solution. Power level doesn’t prevent tunneling, player choice does. Nurses and Blights tunnel just like mid and low tier killers, even when they don’t need to. So we already see that some players tunnel when gen speeds don’t matter due to the killer they are choosing, so it doesn’t make sense to assume that if gen speeds were even longer, they would stop tunneling.
I agree that if gen speeds change, tunneling should be adjusted alongside it. But I disagree with the idea that killers tunnel because of gen speeds, or that slowing gens would make tunneling disappear. I feel we already have proof that it is not the case.
I agree that if gen speeds change, tunneling should be adjusted alongside it. But I disagree with the idea that killers tunnel because of gen speeds, or that slowing gens would make tunneling disappear. I feel we already have proof that it is not the case.
This is absolutely my stance as well. Killers tunnel because it is usually the most effective way to win a match. Tunneling and gen speeds are intrinsically linked but only because gen speeds must match how quickly the killer is able to kill and vice versa. Just slowing gens makes tunneling stronger but if you nerf tunneling something about gen speeds needs to change to compensate. The high tier killers have an easier time tunneling so nerfing tunneling and slowing gens should benefit the lower tiers more than the high tiers so long as it is handled correctly.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4041763#Comment_4041763
we dont need to speculate
I know a korean dbd streamer. I have been watching him since a long time (not regular just from youtube usually). He posts full vods on his second channel. Something i’ve noticed is that they don’t give up as easily as in NA server where I play. Also they seem to be very altruistic in endgame. This is what i’ve seen from his videos and stream vods but yeah it’s not there “self care botany or killers bad” fallacy. Actually the killers over there seem to play pretty similarly to basically any other region. I think it’s mainly just a mindset difference.
Here’s the channel you can take a look for yourself:https://youtube.com/@Salgu_full?si=aXKlytpbhoyeZNrj
One streamer is going to be anecdotal at best. Are they more skilled at one side or the other? What about the opponents they face, how much experience do they have? If we balanced the game around onepumpwillie every killer is getting nerfed. If we balanced around Hens or Knightlight we would be playing a whole different game.
Also anecdotal but in the first match I watched from this the Myers ignores a gen about to pop while in power and then messes up their dash at water tower. The streamer then dies with two gens left and we don't see the match outcome. This is followed by a survivor win, then a loss, win, loss (that almost became a tie because of slug for 4k), win, tie, loss, win and at this point I'm about two hours in. That's pretty even and this player is clearly a good survivor.
There appears to be a bunch of killer matches in here on a bunch of different killers and its all 4ks and I have scrolled through up to about the four hour mark. If killers are really struggling over there it doesn't seem to apply to this guy. The only conclusion that can be drawn from these matches is that this person is good at DbD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtvlsaoJQnsI also feel I need to note how common it seems to be to slug for the 4k. Its bad in NA but in these its happening literally every match the killer wins.
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The difference is 24 seconds on average when all gens get completed. Just 24 seconds shorter but 8 percent more trials end in all gens popping. Something more is going on than just "the survivors are more efficient." The 465 seconds puts gen completion time at almost 8 minutes, if you add 2 more minutes for endgame (could be different but personally my last 30 trials averaged around 10 minutes), then 24 seconds is just 4% of a trial.
@[Deleted User] said:
Sorry to say this but your opinion will probably be ignored as someone comes in and says something like “asian killers suck” or “asian survivors play with self care botany what r u talking about noob”
I have absolutely stated it as a possibility but we don't have any real evidence either way. 24 seconds on average does not seem that much more efficient to me. It can be simultaneously the killers are a bit worse on average and the survivors are a bit more gen efficient on average.