FFirebrandd
FFirebrandd
About
- Username
- FFirebrandd
- Joined
- Visits
- 8,028
- Last Active
Comments
-
I went with Predator... But how did monstrous shrine not not make it up there over Gearhead, Mad Grit, and Forced Penance?
-
@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2243558#Comment_2243558
the time it takes me to shoot and reel someone in twice as Slinger around any loop is much less than hitting 16 shots as Trickster.
the only time where trickster might be faster would be in a deadzone, which means the survivor is dead anyway due to deadzoning themselves, regardless of the killer.
and im not going to pick Trickster over Deathslinger just because he might down someone slightly faster in one specific scenario that is entirely reliant on the survivor screwing up to ever happen in the first place.
The only way Deathslinger would get 2 shots off before Trickster can get 16 knives off is if you're at a spot where Trickster keeps having to put his knives away. Also it's not just dead zones that make Trickster incredibly lethal. Any kind of short loop that you can shoot or throw over, Trickster will get a down faster. Will that happen frequently? Well, that's up to your ability to deny Survivors access to tiles you can't handle.
Also frequently if you shoot in a dead zone as Deathslinger, the Survivor will be able to use the injury speed boost to get behind something. Against Trickster you can't just hold W away post injury because the dude is still throwing knives. I have 100% had people go down vs me on Trckster because they tried to just hold W post injury to get away and it failed miserably.
I'm not gonna say that Trickster is better than Deathslinger. Deathslinger's downs are consistent enough that he's considered mid-high tier for a reason. But... there are reasons why someone might want to play Trickster over Deathslinger.
-
@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2242547#Comment_2242547
the only killers that coule even be argued to be in a worse spot than him would be Trapper for being so laughably weak and Twins for being such a fundamental design failure.
and given Trickster is the newest Killer out of all, he really should not be in the spot he is in right now - especially not since all the feedback about him (that usually contains solutions on how to fix his issues) has been the exact same ever since the PTB.
and no, this has nothing to do with people just "not playing him enough" or "not being good enough at aiming" - because anyone who actually took the time to play him and learn his power ended up realising very quickly that there is literally no reason for anyone to play him over Deathslinger, who does everything Trickster does just in much, much better.
so the only ones defending his current state either havent played him enough to realize that themselves yet, or are simply in denial over it.
You do realize that Deathslinger's whole loop of Aim->Shoot->Reel->Swing->Wipe->Reload takes a very long time, right? That's why Deathslinger has Deep Wound in his kit. It's there to offset his downs taking a while to get.
If the terrain cooperates, Trickster can get downs *way* faster than Deathslinger. That's why you might go for Trickster over Slinger. Slow and reliable vs fast and unreliable.
-
If you hate this so much, may I suggest running the Nancy perk Better Together?
-
@PureDoctorMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2240722#Comment_2240722
These are pretty cool absolutely love the idea of the Trickster somersaulting at me.
I should have added in the post that only Trickster gets a movement speed boost since I feel bad for the guy.
Honestly I don't think Trickster needs to be 115% move speed. His base kit feels quite solid to me. Main event though? Kinda underwhelming.
-
Trickster: Once charged, Main Event can be activated whenever instead of only a 5s window.
While Main Event is active, Holding M1 will make Trickster throw slower but throw 3 knives at a time in a fan pattern.
One time per Main Even, hitting M2 will make Trickster do a somersault that is essentially a 5ish meter dash.
-
Honestly, he doesn't need a lullaby. However it also isn't as big of a problem as you are making it out to be. Idk if Survivors don't hear it or what, but I'm usually able to get close to Survivors while running M&A and it is significantly harder to get close when I take M&A off.
-
@FreddysMixTape said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2239077#Comment_2239077
Same tbh, I don't get why Death Slinger is allowed to run around with a 24m(16 with monitor) tr but Trickster gets gimped with a lullaby for no real reason.
To be fair, in game the lullaby is not nearly as obvious as the sound clip on the wiki implies. I'm able to get close to people with minimal trouble as M&A Trickster.
-
Wait, this is a real tome challenge? I saw someone mention this in a streamer's chat and thought they were memeing.
-
@bjorksnas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2238340#Comment_2238340
Tricksters power is a power that punishes survivors, much like the other ranged killers, unlike the other ranged killers however his power both takes longer for the injury needing a larger window but has effectively no cooldown on it, however don't take this the wrong way, you faced some not so good survivors, and I counted, at least 20 Fatal mistakes in the first match alone, at least 20 of the health states you took in that match were just survivor mistakes from standing in the middle of nowhere to running directly into you, any 115 killer would be able to punish at least 50% of those same mistakes, and any other ranged or good killer could punish all 100% maybe even harder than trickster could, im not going to grapes wine here but trickster is just mediocre, but looks cool or viable only when survivors make a bunch of mistakes, which frankly they did. Even decent - good survivors would have made much less of those mistakes and you might have been in a bad spot the entire match
I'm not the OP :-P.
I'm just telling you how and when I find Tricksters power to be useful... more useful than some other power would be. He's also is really good at punishing unsafe unhooks.
Is his power also very useless at some tiles? Yes. Does that average out to him being worse than Slinger or Huntress? Also yes. But I personally very much enjoy the strengths present in his kit and can usually deal with the weaknesses. So... I play him.
-
So... probably not because the amount of work necessary to make that happen would be staggering. Could they do it? Yeah they could. I don't suspect they will any time soon. If we do get a spider themed Killer, I'm fully expecting it to resemble either Elise's (from League of Legends) human form or the Beldam (from Coraline).
-
@Dodgingbears said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2238030#Comment_2238030
Slugging to get kills is not holding the game hostage
if you slug all 4 and watch them all bleed out, that is. Read the ToS or dev comments on banable offenses. Survivors can also hold the game hostage.. if two are left and 3 gens up and they just hide... that is also holding the game hostage... refusing to progress towards goals.
Actually 4 man slugging and not hooking isn't holding the game hostage either. To figure it out, simply ask the following 3 questions.
- Is one side taking actions that prevent the other from ending the game?
- Is one side also refusing to take actions that will end the game?
- Is the game in a state where it will end without any further action from anyone?
If the answers to those questions are NOT Yes, Yes, No... then the game is NOT being held hostage. Having everyone on the floor bleeding out isn't holding the game hostage because of question #3. It is poor sportsmanship, but it isn't reportable.
-
@bjorksnas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2237264#Comment_2237264
what is his own set of things he is good at
I can answer that. Trickster's power is an answer to nearly every instance where most other killers would have to just hold W after the Survivor they're after.
Safe and Short loop like over half the upstairs loops in Gideon Meat Plant? Most killers have to just hold W after the Survivor to force the pallet down. Trickster can throw knives over the top and down them.
Survivor holds W after getting hit for massive distance? If Trickster got the injury with kinves, he can just keep on throwing. A lot of Killers just have to eat that lost distance and hold W after them or go for someone else.
Survivor saw you coming from a distance and bolted? As Trickster, if you have LoS you can zone them with some long range knives here and there to keep them from continuing to run.
As Trickster, pretty much the only time you have to just hold W after someone is if you've lost LoS. Other killers can handle some of these instances, but Trickster is the guy who can handle all of them. Like Huntress and Slinger can handle short safe loops but can't handle the post hit hold W. Blight can handle the post hit hold W and bolting but depending on the shape of the short loop and the surrounding terrain, he may not be able to pinball around it. I hate being forced to just hold W after a Survivior, so Trickster has been my jam since he got his post launch buffs.
In addition to that, Trickster is actually the best of the ranged Killers to deal with Survivors attempting to get all up in your face to prevent hooks and stuff. He's got enough ammo at base to deal 7 health states worth of damage compared to Huntress's 5 or Deathslinger's 1 and more ready access to ammo increases. Also if Survivors are all up in your face, either stacked Showstopper or Main Event will be able to inflict damage much faster than Hatchets or the Redeemer. Amusingly enough, Survivors thinking Trickster is super weak helps him immensely here. Because they think he's weak, they're more likely to go for bullying plays, but because he's better at handling that than Huntress or Deathslinger those plays are much more likely to backfire horribly. Seriously, a lot of my really one sided Trickster games happened because Survivors tried and failed to bully me.
-
Were you present for Old Legion? Or even hear about Old Legion? Old Legion wasn't a good killer, but Old Legion could basically down any Survivor no matter what. It took them a while to do it, but they were incredibly frustrating to go against because if Legion wanted you dead, you were going to die. Full Stop.
These 3 changes you proposed together will make it so Legion can get near guaranteed downs with the Survivor basically having no chance because a 130% killer is near impossible to loop.
- You can start Feral Frenzy, when it's charged above 25%
- Power gauge starts to build up while in fatigue state.
- Every Feral Frenzy attack reduces survivors Deep Wound timer by 5 seconds
With these changes, by my count you would be able to get a nearly guaranteed Deep Wound down in... ~24 seconds.
5 seconds from spotting a fresh Survivor to catching them the first time with Frenzy. Survivor deep wound at 15.
3 seconds after the initial hit, Legion still in Frenzy should be able to catch and hit the Survivor again. Deep wound to 10.
5 seconds to get 25% of the power back, then about 3 more seconds to catch back up with Frenzy again. Deep wound to 5.
Repeat the above. Deep wound to 0. Survivor down in ~24 seconds because they couldn't loop a 130% killer who can fast vault everything. Cool.
Now don't get me wrong... Legion could use some buffs. However, unless you're planning on reworking Frank's Mix Tape, you need to be very careful when buffing them. Why? Because individual Frenzy hits are basically impossible to counter. It having any sort of decent lethality is a 1 way ticket to Legion being broken again.
-
Honestly, I can understand the sentiment. BBQ's popularity largely makes playing immersed as Survivor just not work. Why? Well, because either BBQ will allow the Killer to find you in situations where they otherwise shouldn't be able to and you'll just die since good hiding spots are usually not good looping spots. Or if you do counter BBQ with a locker, then the Killer will probably end up finding and hooking your teammates over and over and over again. They'll die with you never being hooked and you've basically done the Killer a huge favor.
In fact, I wouldn't be all that surprised if BBQ was a decent portion of why the Survivor meta is the way it is. If BBQ is in play that means the Killer will almost always be shown at least one potential target to go after when they need info the most... right after their current target isn't a valid target anymore. That means the Killer will basically never have to just go patrol generators. If the Killer is never just patrolling gens and is always actively in chase, then the game is significantly faster. How do Survivors deal with fast games? Well... slow it down with looping and as many 2nd chance perks as possible.
Now, does BBQ theoretically make camping less of a problem? Sure. Is that good? Yeah. Is that worth basically losing an entire Survivor playstyle for? Eh... I honestly don't know.
-
@ManWithALemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2236527#Comment_2236527
I'm sorry, you can talk about how good and sneaky you are all you want and how map geometry is really great for stealth Killers even though stealth Killers are in fact a complete meme the majority of the time. It changes nothing. Maybe it's just because I despise stealth Killer almost as much as I despise immersed Survivors so I make sure to always look around on a gen, but in my experience, it is so, SO easy to counter any and all stealth. The only viable stealth Killer in this entire game is Wraith, and that's because he is completely invisible until he gets close and then swoops in at Sprint Burst speed. Everyone else simply does not have enough objects to conceal the majority of their approaches as they get close unless the generator is inside of a jungle gym. It's just not realistic nor possible. Most gens are out in the open. It's not hard to rotate your mouse and look around.
And that's not even factoring in the fact that Spine Chill just, you know, exists. And contrary to what you claim, Spine Chill is in fact a Perk that red rank players enjoy running.
Trickster is a 110 Killer with a 32-meter Terror Radius, regardless of what Perks you equip. You HAVE to be bad to get stealthed by a Trickster. The sheer lack of situational awareness it requires is phenomenal. The fact of the matter is, most Survivors just have that phenomenal lack, because most Survivors are in fact terrible.
So... Essentially what has happened here is that you are doubling down that killer stealth doesn't ever work in spite of you never trying it?
Really?
Surely you can at least see how weak a position that is... Right? I mean, how can you hope to accurately judge something if you refuse to experience it?
I'm not saying you need to try stealth killers. People are allowed to have their own likes and dislikes and stick to them. I just don't think you have a leg to stand on with this assertion you are making.
-
@MongolPSR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/254259/dropping-survivors-late-in-the-wiggle
yes. dropping a survivor jumps their escape bar by I think 20 Percent. you can usually only drop them 4 times before the drops and the time they do have to wiggle completes their bar.
Other than it being 25 percent instead of 20 percent, this is exactly how it works. Drop them too late in the wiggle, they get off your shoulder instead of just getting dropped.
-
@ManWithALemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2236385#Comment_2236385
I only play Killer because Survivor is boring. And I don't play stealth Killers precisely because stealth in this game is a complete joke and having eyes of any kind will render Undetectable a useless status effect unless you're playing on five of the thirty-six maps that are indoors. As for Blight... he moves at over double the Survivors' running speed. I don't NEED to be stealthy when I play Blight.
That's not quite what I was getting at for Blight... but I had a feeling something like that would be the answer. Yes you don't need to be stealthy as Blight, but you do need to bounce off of all the random stuff in the map to keep your Rush going.
Speaking as someone who has played Myers, Pig, and Legion with stealth perks way too much... most of the random level geometry that aren't part of a loop are big enough to conceal killers as they approach generators and there is a LOT of it on most maps. If I'm approaching from an angle that puts a tree or rock or something between me and the Gen, any Survivor on that gen won't be able to see me and be able to just run off. Also, if all the Survivor has to work off of are the omni directional warnings that I'm coming... well... then they have to guess which way to go. Sometimes they guess wrong and that results in a stupidly easy hit. It is honestly pretty easy to do that sort of thing on most maps. Not all maps mind you... but most. Ormond, Rotten Fields, and Shelter Woods in particular make stealth play nearly impossible... but the vast majority of maps are at least workable for stealth.
Having eyes DOES NOT counter Killer stealth if the Killer is good at concealing their model behind stuff as they approach.
That's how I'm able to ambush people in places that are good for me as Trickster. They neither hear nor see me coming until I'm 16 meters away, at which point they can't get anywhere safe against me. They aren't messing up... I'm purposely robbing them of the info they'd need to not get caught out. Sure, Spine Chill, Premonition, and maybe new OoO make this not work, but most red rank Survivors aren't running those perks. Seriously, this is stealth killer 101. Trickster isn't exactly a stealth killer, but 16m TR on a ranged killer is close enough.
-
@Frontdoor6 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2236065#Comment_2236065
I have, i've tried everything, nothing helps Trickster. Survivors just keep looping or Gen rushing because they know Trickster is the easiest to get away from right now, its like they're farming only the killer isn't part of it
And i don't appreciate you saying 'get good' when thats often used as an insult to players doing badly.
I'm a decent killer with others, but Trickster is not in a good place right now. Everyone has bad matches some time, Trickster gets them more because its underpowered. Its slow, its knife throws are inaccurate (meaning you try to throw at the middle, but it just goes left or right) and main event is hardly useful.
If a killer is only good because of what map they're on and is only good against low rank survivors, then its in desperate need of a change
Have you tried playing Trickster as a very territorial killer?
-
@ManWithALemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2236268#Comment_2236268
So, they either are inside of a jungle gym, meaning that they're already in a favorable spot, and you're already in a bad position against them, or they're out in the open, didn't see you approaching from out in the open, and they let you get so close that you can control and corral them as a 110 Killer. So yes, I would wager that this is ENTIRELY on the Survivors having both bad pathing AND bad situational awareness. There's no outplaying going on here, just the Survivors letting you play in the first place. Sure, Trickster can pull off M1 mindgames, but the reason 110 Killers need strong antiloop powers is because being a 110 M1 Killer vs. a 115 M1 Killer is MASSIVE. A 110 Killer is significantly worse at M1 mindgames because they catch up to the Survivor 33% more slowly. This means that whatever mindgames you can pull off will take much, MUCH longer than if you were 115, meaning that the chase will take very long and you will waste a lot of time. Also, he's not the best ranged M1 Killer in the game, because Demogorgon and Pyramid Head both exist and are 115, which massively outweighs the height advantages at almost all loops. He also doesn't have nearly the zoning potential that Deathslinger does. Also, if you think Sloppy butcher actually slows down healing: Botany Knowledge, Desperate Measures, We'll Make It, group healing, Emergency Medkits, Ranger Medkits, healing speed addons for Medkits, and Inner Strength would BEG to differ.
I really think you're overexaggerating on the "not reacting to the lullaby" anecdote. I don't think Survivors don't hear the lullaby. I think that they do, but because they're cocky and bad at the game, they will ignore it in favor of staying on the gen. Which, again, is entirely, ENTIRELY on them being bad. It really is just a 32-meter uneraseable TR on a 110 Killer.
And last but not least, if you genuinely think the game should be balanced around not average players, not bad players, but the lowest skill bracket of players who will hand wins to a Killer like Trickster, then we have nothing left to discuss.
Ok, at this point I gotta ask, how much do you play Killer? And if you do play Killer do you play any of the non invisible stealth killers or Blight?
I'm asking because you seem to be thinking that either they're in a structure and can't see you coming but are safe or they're out in the open and aren't safe but can see you coming from a mile away and literally nothing in between. There is in fact a 3rd option. They're not really near anything they can use to loop and don't see you coming. Most maps have a lot of random level geometry that can't be used to loop. What they can be used for though is to hide yourself while approaching a generator that way you can rob the Survivors of their time to run and still have them in a really bad position when you show up. Myers, GF, Pig, and Blight all need to take advantage of those objects so if you have played them, you should know just how many of them laying around there are. If you don't play one of those 4 then I can understand not getting this.
-
@ManWithALemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2236181#Comment_2236181
For your first point, you seem to be placing a LOT of faith in Survivors having extremely terrible pathing and gen spawns HEAVILY favoring you. If they're at a jungle gym (not NEAR one, because be honest with yourself, gens don't spawn NEAR jungle gyms; they spawn IN them) and you approach them from one side, they're just gonna, you know... run to the side of the jungle gym that you're NOT on. Now they have both distance AND a jungle gym to use against you. Congratulations, you're now a 110 M1 Killer who can barely contest. And if they do feed you a free Laceration or M1, guess what? They're gonna use that hit boost to get to a jungle gym/building/high wall/any LOS blocker of any kind, and then you're in trouble again because Trickster's anti-looping capabilities don't magically become stronger against injured Survivors.
For your second point, again, this is ENTIRELY up to Survivors lacking situational awareness, not you being sneaky. I, for one, can hear the lullaby easily, and was aware of it the literal first match I played against him. It might not be the loudest thing in the world, but you know what it is? Distinct and obnoxious. It's very different from the usual background noise you hear in this game, and much like Trickster's TR music, it's annoying as all hell to listen to. It's very, VERY discernible for reasons other than sheer volume.
You are right about one thing, most Survivor players rarely ever learn and adopt counterplay and will usually stay bad. But should we really be basing a Killer's capabilities off of bad, nay, terrible players? Should we really be judging viability off of Survivors who would probably lose to an M1 Nurse? Should we really make balancing decisions off of low levels of play against people who cannot or will not get better and adapt? I don't think so.
Its not a case of them having bad pathing, Its a case of me forcing them to either have bad pathing or take a hit. That's not them messing up, that's me outplaying them. As for Gen RNG, sometimes they spawn in jungle gyms, sometimes near them. I don't think I've ever seen ALL the gens do one or the other. There's almost always at least a few exposed Generators and as Trickster, those are the ones you really want to contest. Besides that... like I get that knives at high wall loops aren't great, but its not like Trickster can't pull off at least some normal M1 mindgames and moon walks there to get hits. In fact, since he's medium height instead of tall, he's the best ranged killer at M1 gameplay. I do it pretty frequently in fact. It's my experience that Trickster can either knife spam, or moon walk most tiles in the game. The main exceptions being Shack and some main buildings. As for the using their speed boost to get somewhere strong... firstly that's much less effective vs Trickster than anyone else because he can just keep on throwing knives. Secondly, I personally run Sloppy Butcher, so that if somebody runs to Shack and I tagged them with an M1... well... I can just leave them. Either they'll heal and Sloppy will make it take a long time or they won't and I'll get the down later the next time I ambush them. I don't care which.
You seem to be in the like... 1% or less of Survivors that know the lullaby exists and can hear it. I don't think I've ever noticed a Survivor actually reacting to the lullaby. Even if I get 1 who can... oh well? I've got 3 other targets who likely won't hear it or react to it. I'll be fine. Seriously... Trickster's lullaby is not nearly as big of a deal as you're making it out to be.
To a certain extent, yes Killers should be balanced with bad Survivors in mind. DBD is not an ultra hardcore competitive game, its a party game. Because of that, the Devs absolutely need to try to keep certain killers from ruining the party vs bad Survivors. I mean... I'm pretty sure that's kinda the whole reason for Bubba getting a rework instead of just buffs. He was oppressive vs bad Survivors but worthless vs good ones. So... they reworked him. Made him stronger but harder.
-
@ManWithALemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2236016#Comment_2236016
"If the Trickster player can get into or manufacture chases where the window of opportunity to hit the Survivor is very long, Trickster is much more lethal than any other ranged Killer."
The problem is that to get to scenarios like that, the Survivor will need to run out in the open or use loops with very short walls. And if a Survivor worth their salt understands who Trickster is, they're just gonna, you know, not do that. They'll stay behind high walls, go to jungle gyms, beeline to shack, and so on. It's much less up to the Trickster than it is to the Survivors where they go, since if they know where TO go, Trickster is little more than a 110 M1 Killer.
"Also... If I'm the Trickster, I am running M&A and almost always approaching from behind something."
Oh, boy, have I got some news for you!
Trickster has a lullaby. Yes, you heard me right, as if he weren't already a copy-paste Huntress as-is, he has his own discount lullaby. It sounds nearly identical to the first layer of the Terror Radius music, but without the telltale heartbeat. It reaches out to approximately 32 meters, like a normal Terror Radius, and it is not reduced by TR-altering effects.
Monitor and Abuse? 32-meter lullaby.
Distressing? 32-meter lullaby.
Oblivious? 32-meter lullaby.
Undetectable? 32-meter lullaby.
That MnA you're running isn't helping you. No matter what you bring, you're effectively a 110 Killer with a 115's Terror Radius. Meaning all those times you were able to get in close to Survivors? That was them having a complete lack of situational awareness, not any stealth or element of surprise on your part. They heard you coming as if you were a Trapper, and yet they completely ignored it until you were right there. That is, once again, entirely on them, not on your gumption.
If the person running Trickster understands the concept of shepherding and can actually do it, it isn't too difficult to push Survivors away from good structures. I'm aware that Killer doesn't always have a ton of control where a chase goes, but they have more control than you seem to think they do. Like... sure the Survivor might feel safe cause they've got a Jungle Gym near the Gen they're on. What exactly are they gonna do if I approach them from that side though? Run past me and feed me a free M1? Nah, they're gonna run the other way and I don't have to deal with the Jungle Gym. If they have another strong structure on the other side... well then I just won't contest that Gen. I've got 6 others. Losing one isn't a big deal.
I actually did know that Trickster has a lullaby. However, nobody ever hears it. Literally. Nobody. It is really really quiet compared to either Huntress's or Freddy's. Heck at one point I was on a stream where the streamer was actively trying to show us the lullaby and I still couldn't hear it. For that reason M&A does in fact help a lot. I've tried running Trickster without M&A... people start running much earlier and Trickster starts sucking because they have the time to get to strong loops. With M&A, they usually don't get anywhere good before I'm on them. On paper, sure you're right... but in practice Trickster's Lullaby is a non issue. Maybe that'll change as Survivors get more used to going against him, but after seeing countless survivors misplay horribly vs Legion before Trickster came out... I don't think that'll happen.
-
@ManWithALemon said:
He is lethal at close range. But the fact of the matter is, at that close of a range at loops, most of your windows of opportunity to hit Survivors are going to be very small and narrow, meaning Trickster will have to grace that window multiple times since he'll only get 2 or 3 knives in for each one. Something like a hatchet or a Shred or a Punishment or a spear, on the other hand, will take that small window and get a full health state of damage out of it, not one-eighth of one. This means that even at close range, other attacks usually prevail as they can do much more with a narrow grace period than Trickster can. You simply cannot escape the fact that it takes more time to hit someone with your power 8 times than it does to hit them once.
Not to mention, he's 110. 110 + close range power = you're never getting within that range lmao
Here's the thing though. If the Trickster player can get into or manufacture chases where the window of opportunity to hit the Survivor is very long, Trickster is much more lethal than any other ranged Killer. Sure, that can be very difficult to do but it isn't impossible. That strength alone makes him... not exactly good, but not the worst either.
Also... If I'm the Trickster, I am running M&A and almost always approaching from behind something. Sure, 4.4 Killers close the distance slower than 4.6 ones, but under those circumstances, the initial distance I need to close is going to be less than 16m. Sometimes a lot less. I get up close all the time as Trickster.
-
Seems like a good idea to me. Sometimes after a bad loss as Killer you just want the Survivors to just leave and they almost never do. This'll give Killers a way to make them leave faster that doesn't involve them having to go over to the doors to force them out.
-
Several people have said this already, but there's a really good chance that the person who said "It's a Trickster" hasn't played in a while or hasn't played against a Trickster. They then got the "Tips for playing against Trickster" hints and shared that info with their SWF. It's a little sucky that can happen, but those tips do need to exist.
-
@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2234575#Comment_2234575
But again.... one huntress hit is a health state, so you only have to land 2 at most. Why go to more trouble? The same goes for Deathslinger (who can hit shots huntress cannot)
Speed.
Everything Trickster does is theoretically faster than anything Huntress or Deathslinger does. The main downside Trickster has compared to them is that he needs to maintain Line of Sight for far longer. Depending on the tile, that's either not a problem or a really big problem.
-
@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2234224#Comment_2234224
This is 100% wrong. How can you compare hatchets to knives when one instantly injures while the other has to be landed 8 times? I’m legit not sure if people in this thread are trolling or don’t understand the game.
Wind up, fire rate, and cool down. Because all of those are faster for Trickster, he can unload 16 knives before Huntress can let fly with 2 charged hatchets. And he loses less distance while doing it. Doubly so if he's got one of the initial fire rate add ons.
-
@Trickstaaaaa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2234224#Comment_2234224
I watched the footage it was nothing special. Those survivors were clearly casuals I would gotten the same results if I was playing the trickster. Those survivors had bad movement, they were horrible loopers, and did not not know how to counter play the trickster clearly. If you were going vs me as a survivor If I had decent solo teammates I would win, or I would the be the last person you would get because I know how to loop. But you yourself are admitting he is a weak killer like no other. He only excels in short tiles, and or open areas. If you were to face decent survivors who had decent movement, and knowledge of looping you are almost certainly going to lose the majority of the time. Because he is the second weakest killer that they have released in their entire history. So outside of short tiles, such as jungle gyms and shack he cannot handle it at all it takes to long if the survivor is an okay looper. And the shack could become an infinite vs him if the survivor knows how loop. But even though he a short terror radius some survivors use spine chill and immediately go running to the nearest high wall loop, at least the competent ones. Based on my experience having played every killer, he requires too much effort compared to the other killers he has to be played really sweaty if you wanna get any downs vs decent survivors, those survivors in the footage were not decent by any means. And the more I play him the more I see he is the only killer that I have to hope the survivors don't know how to properly loop.
Um... What footage? Did you quote the right person?
-
@OopsAllHexes said:
The big issues with Trickster is that he gets turned into a M1 Killer like Huntress, and can't split pressure like Huntress because of laceration. The lack of map mobility makes this even worse. Harder to play than Huntress on console, and he's SUPER weak to shack as well. Huntress only needs 1 hit to take a health state, Trickster needs 8, and that shows HARD on loops with walls, with easy 30+ second chases for the Survivor.
Sure, Trickster is amazing at open loops... but so what? So is Huntress and Slinger. They can do what he does just as easily, and NOT suffer in other areas.
This is why he's considered one of the worst: He's a chase-oriented Killer who is only good at one subset of chases. Other chase Killers like Huntress and Slinger are better at multiple aspects of a chase, because they don't need 8 shots and aren't weak to Killer shack.
I'm sorry but he is 100% NOT B tier, not the same tier as Oni tier because he gets destroyed more easily by competent Survivors (NOT SWF teams mind you, just competent Survivors) compared to Oni, and Oni has instadowns and map mobility.
So... honestly I would almost argue that Trickster isn't a chase killer.
Why?
Because like you said, there's a lot of structures that he can't really handle. Shack, Jungle Gyms, even TL walls can give him trouble without some nifty M1 mindgames. Main buildings are kind of hit and miss. What kind of chase centric killer can't handle those? A bad one, that's what.
However, there's some things he does far better than Huntress. Trickster's knives are actually more lethal than Huntress's hatchets are. Seriously, he can churn through Survivor health states far faster than any other ranged killer. I have had a LOT of unsafe unhooks turn into 2 Survivors eating dirt despite BT. It happens very frequently. Similarly, if a good Trickster finds a Survivor in a spot where they don't have easy access to a tile he can't handle... they kinda just die. Also, unlike Huntress, he doesn't have a 40m warning he's coming.
For those reasons, I would honestly say that Trickster isn't chase centric... he's Ambush centric and Territorial. If he's played to those strengths, he gets a lot better than everyone says he is. B tier is pushing it, but he can put in some real work.
-
I mean, if Trickster isn't your jam that's perfectly fine. There are several killers that I intend to never get because they just don't appeal to me.
That said, if you want some tips for how he can be great, well I have some.
- Use Monitor and Abuse or other Stealth perks. High Wall loops can be incredibly hard for Trickster to deal with. The solution? Get your damage in before they have a chance to get to them.
- Use almost any other tracking perk over BBQ. BBQ is good, but Trickster doesn't really have the tools to be chasing Survivors across the entire map multiple times. He just doesn't.
- Get used to sheparding Survivors. Because certain tiles are so good against Trickster, you NEED to deny them as much as possible. Survivors on a gen near shack? Swing around THROUGH shack before going to them. Take another half loop around the thrown pallet so they can't easily get to another good loop. That sort of thing is ridiculously important on Trickster.
- Don't be afraid to drop chase. I sometimes fail at this tip myself, but if a Survivor does get to shack or somewhere else powerful and aren't nearly down... just leave em. I run Sloppy Butcher along with M&A on Trickster specifically so dropping chase is less painful. Heal? Sloppy makes it take longer. Don't heal? M&A lets me catch them out later. Win win for me.
- Be territorial if you can. If you can force Survivors to come to you into a part of the map that's basically a dead zone vs knives, they're going to have an incredibly bad time. Perfect example... on the PTB, my first game on him was a win because I set up shop in the carnival on Father Cambel's Chapel. There's like... no high walled loops there so the Survivors got the other gens on the map done with little worry, but they just died whenever they came to my area. And they had to come since their hooked friends and the last 4 gens where there.
-
@Altarf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2233450#Comment_2233450
I'm genuinely curious, what does Trickster do better than Huntress? It's not downing people out in the open - for both killers, as soon as they get a health state the speed boost lets the survivor get behind cover. Except Huntress has a chance to down them when they get out of cover briefly while running with a well-placed shot, while Trickster will land, like, 1-2 knives. And that's assuming the recoil, spread and hand distribution allows him to hit. It's definitely not chasing. It's definitely not snowballing because of his inability to switch targets. It's definitely not long-range pressure because of the inaccuracy of his blades and the fact he needs to hit 8 knives, so you're not really "pressuring" people off gens. There's no fear there.
Really, the only things I can see him being better at is camping and if he's at a loop with really low walls. But loops with low walls are pretty rare on most of the reworked maps, and no survivor in their right mind is going to stay at a low wall loop against a ranged killer. Huntress could also down at these same loops likely just as fast, maybe a second or so slower. And Trickster being good at camping isn't really something to be celebrated.
It is in fact downing people out in the open. If Trickster's throw rate has stacked up, he can keep throwing knives while the Survivors get their speed boost and I've had Survivors get absolutely wrecked before they were able to get to safety post injury in a way they wouldn't if I was either Huntress or Deathslinger. I've even had a few times where somebody did an unhook in my face after getting injured and I was able to torch through the rescuer's remaining health state, and the rescuee's BT and health state with neither one getting to safety. Seriously, Trickster can be downright lethal when Survivors are stupid.
Another thing he does better is keeping the chase going. He is significantly faster than Huntess if they're both using their power. In certain situations, that can be incredibly useful. Over and over again, I hear that if its endgame and a gate is open you can't down a healthy Survivor unless you've got an insta down. Also... BT in the end game is a free out. Well because of how fast he is while using his power... neither of those statements are true vs Trickster. Heck, I've managed to inflict 3 health states worth of damage as Trickster while chasing Survivors to an exit across Gas Haven. Also late game BT is not a free out vs him. In fact, his knives actually make most of the Survivors late game shenanigans just not work. Body blocking? I'll just throw knives over your head. Use your speed boost to get out for free? Unless you're very close, I do damage too fast for that to work. I truly think Trickster might be the Killer who is best equipped to handle end game situations... except maybe Bubba... but it's basically impossible to shut down shenanigans faster than Bubba's chain saw can.
The other thing Trickster does better than Huntress is that Trickster... partially out of necessity... is a far superior hybrid killer than Huntress. For Huntress, if you ever M1, you're arguably doing it wrong. Not so for Trickster. There are tiles that the knives are ill suited for handling. The fact that he's shorter than her and has (nearly) no lullaby makes his basic M1 play far more lethal than hers. For that reason, tunning StBFL or Sloppy on Huntress is crazy. On Trickster... yeah, go for it. You'll get value out of those perks.
Also any loop that is possible to throw over far more lethal vs Trickster. Against Huntress, the Survivor just has to duck or dodge a handful of hatchets for Huntress to have to either drop chase to reload or waste tons of time to try to M1 on it. By default, Trickster is hauling around enough knives to inflict 7.5 injury states compared to Huntress's 5. If you're stuck at a short loop vs Trickster... you're going to lose a health state. You might be able to dodge 5 hatchets. You simply won't be able to dodge 53+ knives.
Edit: Oh also... stealth. Stealth Huntress isn't a thing because of her lullaby. Running M&A on Trickster is actually a really really good idea... because then you can get closer and potentially leave Survivors with only low wall loops to get to in time before you're on them.
-
Trickster doesn't need a rework.
He does need some buffs. Main Event in particular needs help. But trying to say that he's just a worse Huntress is just being reductive. She is overall better than he is, but there are certain things he does better than her. To say otheriwse... probably means you've not played one or the other very much.
-
Legion is my comfort pick.
My bring the pain pick is either Pyramid Head or Deathslinger.
-
- Quick and Quiet. I have lost track of how many times I've accidentally snuck up on someone. Alternatively, Lightweight could also fit here.
- Balanced Landing. Several years of pole vaulting has taught me how to maneuver my body mid air and how to fall gracefully.
- Visionary. I have a knack for accomplishing things in ways that people didn't think possible.
- We're Gonna Live Forever. "Your few friends deserve the best protection." I've never had many friends, but I'm loyal to the ones I have.
-
Trickster. 5/8/2021.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
Yeah, if you're a survivor main and doesn't care about skins, there's no reason to buy any DLC tbh. Maybe Halloween for DS at best. That's a result of survivors having 0 meta perks released since David.
To be fair, making another meta Survivor perk is tricky especially considering what they have that's already meta. Lucky Break was probably going to come close but it's duration got cut in half.
-
@Product said:
I don't understand what your tier list is trying to show. I thought you were going to talk about common perks, but I don't understand what a "free" perk is if that's not what your talking about. What perk doesn't cost bloodpoints to level up? I am very confused.
WeenieDog pretty much got it right. The 2nd Tier List are perks you can acquire with only Blood Points. So... Base set + teachables from free killers.
-
I honestly do not want them to make Trickster a 4.6 killer. I would very much prefer any Trickster buffs be aimed squarely at Main Event. It very much needs some help and is by far the worst burst power in the game. But Trickster's base kit? Honestly it has some very good strengths and some weaknesses both sides need to play around and... I'm good with it.
-
Lithe for me actually.
My first survivor matches were in a KYF and Lithe sounded fantastic. Then I started out maining Claudette, so I ran no exhaustion perks for a while... then Lithe happened to show up in the Shrine shortly after I started playing so I got it. Funnily enough, 1k hours later I still don't have Feng.
-
Trapper needs to be able to carry 2 traps at base and he needs the rng for his trap generation made better.
-
@Frontdoor6 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2205874#Comment_2205874
Can you share how you play? Like what perks? Whenever i play Trickster, i just get people who treat me like a joke
That's actually why Agitation is in my Trickster build. I'm pretty good with him but still get people doing all sorts of risky shenanigans near me when I go to pick someone up. Agitation helps me punish their hubris. Occasionally their hubris is so bad that Agitation ends up letting me kill everybody.
-
Before I got DBD I had heard here and there that it was OK but nothing amazing.
When I got it, I did the tutorial and was like... Ok this seems alright. Then I got instantly sucked into a Kill your Friends... and... my reaction was essentially "Wait, there's perks and items and you can put together different builds? How did I not know this? This is gonna be great! OH GOD WHY ARE THERE SO MANY? Later this is going to be great but right now, OH GOD WHAT DO I PICK?" So... essentially a mix of excitement and being very very overwhelmed. I am happy to say the feeling of being overwhelmed has left completely.
-
@OopsAllHexes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2203025#Comment_2203025
Don't forget that Main Event is still trash, Killer shack ruins him, and "mindgaming" with a 110% Killer is difficult to impossible, since the core concept behind these Killers is that they have strong powers. Trickster does not have such a power, otherwise he'd be able to do at LEAST some work across any kind of tile.
On high wall tiles, mind gaming isn't that much harder. Being 110% doesn't make moonwalking not work.
I will admit that the other two things you said are true. Main Event needs a buff and Shack is difficult to run. All that said, he's still not the worst killer in the game. He is overall worse than Huntress or Deathslinger but he is definitely not the worst.
-
There are places where Trickster's power is incredibly strong and borderline oppressive. Out in the open, at short loops, and any time the Survivor animation locks themselves, Trickster's knives can put in massive work. Also unhooking in front of a Trickster... isn't as bad as doing it in front of PH or Bubba, but it is much worse than a lot of Killers. One good example is that car loops next to Badham Preschool. Against a decent number of killers, that's a reasonably good loop. Against Trickster, the Survivor is going to lose a health state there and go down if they don't leave with the injury speed boost.
However at any structure with high walls, his power is much less useful and mind gaming with M1 is almost necessary. On the plus side though, Trickster is the shortest ranged Killer we have in the game which makes his M1 mind game potential better than either Huntress or Deathslinger. That's a good thing since Huntress and Deathslinger have powers that are much better at getting cheeky hits through windows or off of seeing the Survivor briefly.
Overall, if you can aim I'd say he's better than a lot of the usual suspects for "worst killer in the game". He's definitely not above average though. His release state was a very solid contender for worst killer. Thankfully he's been buffed since then, but I'm not surprised that that perception has stuck with him..
-
@Northener1907 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2201717#Comment_2201717
Freddy is really help, teleporting gen is pretty good power. But i have problem with other killers. Ghostface, Myers losing gens so fast, specially Myers. When i get T3, min 2 gens finishing. That is really problem.
For Myers, you really need to do 1 of 2 things. Either run Corrupt Intervention, or if you haven't got that run Sloppy Butcher maybe with Boyfriend's Letter and stab people before you leave Tier 1. Also if you've got it, Oppression can also very much help Myers get some needed slowdown before he starts tiering up.
-
@DwarvenTavern said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198554#Comment_2198554
Expert feels more like a 50/50, but I do get what you mean. A good survivor is able to bait out swings and mind game back as well.
If Matchmaking always matched 4 expert Survivors vs 1 expert Killer I might agree with you. It only very rarely does that though. Which is why Expert is Killer sided.
-
@Lord_Tony said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2200054#Comment_2200054
I think you mean year(s)
No... months. Not years.
PH, Blight, and Twins all saw at least some readjustments in the mid chapter patch after the killer that followed them. Assuming Behavior sticks with their semi normal release schedule, that patch will be in less than a year and Trickster will probably get something in that patch.
Also he's already gotten some buffs that made him significantly better than the state he was released in.
-
I don't think he needs huge changes. What he does need is less maps that have insanely long sight lines. He can't take advantage of T1's undetectable or T2's 16m Terror Radius on maps where the Survivors can see him coming from 32+ meters away. On maps like that... Myers is just kinda bad. Ironically maps that are good for him have a tendency to be bad for Huntress and vice versa.
Actually what might do him wonders is to make him a medium height Killer. He'd stand out less that way when going for sneaky sneak plays.
-
It might just be because I'm a terrible Clown, but I think Clown is the worst Killer in the game. Like, sure he's got anti loop but that anti loop comes at a cost of your map pressure because of reloading and it isn't that strong. He's kinda like Deathslinger lite. In theory their 1v1 power makes up for their less than average map pressure. For Deathslinger it works because the Redeemer is REALLY dangerous. Like... almost ridiculously so. However it is my opinion that in practice, Clown's bottles are simply not scary enough to make him decent. I'd even rate Demo's Shred as more dangerous than Clown's bottles.
The other "weakest" killers on the other hand I can see reasons to pick them over anyone else.
Myers? If you want to be the stealthiest stealth to ever stealth... Myers is your killer. On certain maps, being permanently undetectable is a massive boon and you can absolutely tear Survivor teams apart without ever leaving EW 1. Granted... then next game you get Shelter Woods or Rotten Fields and are super sad. Having a 0m or 16m Terror Radius doesn't help if nearly every sightline is 30m+. But somewhere like Lery's where the average sight line is like... 5m or even less? Myers demolishes on maps like that.
Trapper? He has the most snowbally power in the game bar none. Yes even more snowbally than Oni. Did 2 Survivors step in traps and you can react to both? The Survivors are now in a very very bad position. On the flip side... he's also got the most inconsistent power in the entire game. Do you wanna roll those dice? Sometimes I do. Also the sound of a Survivor stepping in a trap is one of the most satisfying sounds in this game. I just wish he could carry 2 traps without an add on... but... having a required brown add on isn't that bad.
Legion? If you want a game where you win by slowly grinding the Survivors into a fine paste, Legion is your killer. He has the most consistent and reliable source of game slowdown in the entire game with his Frenzy deep wounds and easy injuries. Granted, he's got no follow up to that present in his base kit... but... that's what perks are for.
Trickster? Do you love M1 gameplay but absolutely hate it when the Survivors force you to hold W after them for what seems to be forever? Well then maybe Trickster is right for you. 24m base TR gives them less time to run early, even less if you load up with M&A. Short loops that are impossible to mind game are no longer just holding W until the pallet falls because you can chuck knives over the top. Survivors will be less inclined to hold W in a straight line away from you once you start sending a flurry of knives after them. Injuring with knives loses you way less distance than injuring with an M1 so you have to hold W for much less time.
Seriously... Clown is the one Killer where I just... don't see why anybody would want to play him.
-
I've posted this before, but this is the exact same question... so here we go.
It is both depending on the skill levels involved.
Beginner? Killer sided. Their goals are much more intuitive than Survivor goals.
Intermediate? Survivor sided. Survivors have more ways to get better at the game initially than Killers do and have more ready access to good perks.
Expert? Killer sided. Once the Killer starts to learn to mind game, single out the weak link(s) of a team, and gets good perks... well they start doing very well. Very very well. Which is how Killer streamers are able to do very large 4k streaks. Also it is very rare to even get 4 expert Survivors on a single team through matchmaking.
Pro? Survivor sided. Even the best killers rarely defeat pro Survivors on comms.