Trickster. A killer with so much potential. An oppressive killer in the right hands.
Well I have been playing a very hefty amount of Trickster recently, and I think its safe to say that he is stronger than people realise. He is so fun and effective in the right hands, yet people write him off as the worst killer in the game, regardless of play time or mechanical skill. On ALOT of loops, Trickster can sometimes feel almost too oppressive, take Auto Haven Car loops for example, Huntress can have quite a hard time here, yet Trickster can CONTINUOUSLY fire over the car, get around it before the survivor can even reach the pallet, and has no cooldown between shots.
Move Speed comparison - NO ADDONS
Huntress - 3.08 m/s while bringing up a hatchet and holding it.
Trickster - 3.86 m/s while in throw state and throwing. Down to 3.68 m/s after reaching 30 blades.
Throw Speed comparison - NO ADDONS
Huntress max throw speed - 40 m/s (FULLY CHARGED)
Trickster max throw speed (No "charge" as such needed) - 55 m/s
Time to enter "Throwing States" - NO ADDONS
Huntress - 1.25 seconds (No charge AT ALL, meaning a slow moving and quick to drop projectile)
Trickster - Time to enter Throw State - 0.35 seconds - Showstopper Charge time - 0.35 seconds (0.70 seconds total) Over 0.5 seconds faster than Huntress (0.55 to be exact) He also can remain in this state and throw AS MANY as he wants without any negative side effects like huntress.
If you also count in the fact that Huntress has a 2 second cooldown after throwing a Hatchet, which would add up to a total of 3.25 seconds total after a "possible" successful hit. This is something Trickster doesn't need to worry about, as he can keep throwing blades to his hearts content with no penalty.
Trickster also has his INSANE throw rate multiplier which increases dramatically, the more blades he throws, increasing his overall lethality.
Video of me wrecking havoc on a survivor team - https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1041549934 - From 00:26:18 onwards. Credit to HeroForHire.
As Dowsey said, he is SOOO lethal at close to mid - range, and honestly because he doesn't have that 2 second cooldown like Huntress, he actually is better at these range areas (IF U CAN AIM). And that's what it comes down to "If", and "If" you can aim with him, you will begin to question peoples views on him as soon as you start decimating even the Top level survivors.
His power has the potential to be soo lethal and I wish people gave him more of a chance.
How many times have you been playing Huntress and you are at a loop where a survivor is able to duck etc to ignore your hatchets entirely, Trickster doesn't need to worry about this type of inconvenience... With the small hitboxes the knives have and the small size of them, it results in you being able to hit survivors in areas you wouldn't be able to compared to other ranged killers.
I will give Huntress some credit though for being the Queen of being able to injure from a distance, this is just something Trickster will never be able to compete with, as his power isn't supposed to be used in this way. Honestly, IMO people need to stop comparing Huntress to him, as they use their powers so differently compared to each other.
Even in Tricksters "Weakest" areas like Jungle gyms, someone experienced with the timing of his knives and the ability to hit shots, will have no trouble at these areas... I will say however, it can be quite tough to time it right if the survivor is looping it tightly, yet this isn't to regular of an occurrence anyway so you shouldn't have to worry.
Trickster also has some SERIOUS zoning potential. Just throw your knives through the window as you are going around a corner, and it will make the survivor think twice about continuing to loop you that way, ESPECIALLY if they are only a few knives away from a health state.
He is also more forgiving than Huntress... With the vast amount of Knives at his disposal, you don't have to ever worry about missing 1 or 2 knives when trying to down a survivor, whereas Huntress requires a TON more precision and a hefty wind up time to be able to hit a survivor, resulting in survivors getting more distance and possibly to a more safe area than intended.
Trickster just to put it simply, is the King of Short - Mid range combat and loops, making him VERY oppressive in the right hands. His almost Impossible to dodge knives and incredible fire rate, will make even the best survivors question their choices for getting greedy and running round that loop another time. Whereas with Huntress, that Survivor will get around it maybe 2 or 3 more times, before you can even get the LOS to hit the survivor. This is because of her slower move speed while she is in her power compared to Trickster.
Trickster also has a VERY small terror radius, which can be made even smaller (16M) with M&A, allowing him to get close enough to the survivors before they can even react to him. Huntress has a 40 m lullaby which gives survivors ample warning to find cover and get prepared for her approach, this can't be said for Trickster.
I advise you ALL to try him out and see if you like him, I personally have been playing him for a long time now "basically main him" and he is so strong when my aim is crispy!
Let me know what you think about my post below and if you disagree, I'm always open for a debate. However, be nice and don't be rude lol!
Where I would rate him on the Tier list - F if played by someone with little to no experience. C if played by a person with decent aim and map awareness. B If the person has insane aim and map awareness.
Overall a low B tier killer in the hands of a godly person!
Comments
The big issues with Trickster is that he gets turned into a M1 Killer like Huntress, and can't split pressure like Huntress because of laceration. The lack of map mobility makes this even worse. Harder to play than Huntress on console, and he's SUPER weak to shack as well. Huntress only needs 1 hit to take a health state, Trickster needs 8, and that shows HARD on loops with walls, with easy 30+ second chases for the Survivor.
Sure, Trickster is amazing at open loops... but so what? So is Huntress and Slinger. They can do what he does just as easily, and NOT suffer in other areas.
This is why he's considered one of the worst: He's a chase-oriented Killer who is only good at one subset of chases. Other chase Killers like Huntress and Slinger are better at multiple aspects of a chase, because they don't need 8 shots and aren't weak to Killer shack.
I'm sorry but he is 100% NOT B tier, not the same tier as Oni tier because he gets destroyed more easily by competent Survivors (NOT SWF teams mind you, just competent Survivors) compared to Oni, and Oni has instadowns and map mobility.
Did you read my post fully or just a bit of it ?
He is the worst killer in the game. But he's still viable.
BUT HOW IS HE THE WORST?????? Sometimes I feel like people don't even read what the post says and just type as quick as they can that a killer is bad? He is far from the worst lol.
Any killer that has any form of range in the game is immediately taken out of low tier, as it's up to the killers skill to be able to aim and use their power effectively, rather than the survivors messing up. A good Trickster, Huntress or Deathslinger is essentially un -counter able, as they stop the idea of looping entirely.
Survivors don't have to mess up if they can get to a T or L wall, or jungle gym.
I also can't even imagine putting Trickster on the same level as those two. One of these three gets destroyed by Killer shack like no other ranged Killer.
Not true at all. I also think that Slinger is C tier.
And you did NOT just call Huntress uncounterable 😂
He's just inconsistent IMO, but you can lessen it by constantly running + throw rate and usb.
He's a ranged killer but with an effective range that is near melee, 110%, weaker zone potential because laceration has to be built over time (and can decay) .
His biggest strength is his ability to absolutely shred health states but it relies on map generation that gives extended LOS and survivor positioning.
He's okay and you will still do just fine against you're regular everyday survivor, but when compared to the rest of the cast, he flops.
I said it requires the killer to mess up for them to be almost un - counterable, that is why deathslinger is hated so much.
What is it with this killer shack argument? You are saying that just because they can get looped SLIGHTLY easier if the person is playing bad, they all of a sudden CANNOT be compared to each other lol. That is like saying oh my god you cant compare spirit to nurse as Spirit still has collision in her power while Nurse doesn't, so she technically gets looped "easier" ... I fail to see your point...
"Slightly"? You can run a Trickster for 30 seconds by just running around it repeatedly. There is no skill required, any Survivor can do it, and shack is reusable even with pallet gone, because it's a structure, a resource that can't be truly depleted, which makes it safe to come back to several times in the match.
Killers like Slinger don't need to windup and don't need to land more knives so they can shoot their chain faster when a Survivor is turning the corner... and Killers like Huntress have projectiles the Survivor must respect. One hit = a health state, they can counter shack more effectively as a result.
You can't compare Spirit to Nurse. They have entirely different powers and skill caps
You must be either a TERRIBLE Trickster, or you are facing TERRIBLE ones, as there is no way I would ever allow a survivor to loop me that long as any killer, its all about the timing and pre firing around corners. Again, still haven't made a DECENT argument. Move Speed comparison - NO ADDONS
Huntress - 3.08 m/s while bringing up a hatchet and holding it.
Trickster - 3.86 m/s while in throw state and throwing. Down to 3.68 m/s after reaching 30 blades.
Throw Speed comparison - NO ADDONS
Huntress max throw speed - 40 m/s (FULLY CHARGED)
Trickster max throw speed (No "charge" as such needed) - 55 m/s
Time to enter "Throwing States" - NO ADDONS
Huntress - 1.25 seconds (No charge AT ALL, meaning a slow moving and quick to drop projectile)
Trickster - Time to enter Throw State - 0.35 seconds - Showstopper Charge time - 0.35 seconds (0.70 seconds total) Over 0.5 seconds faster than Huntress (0.55 to be exact) He also can remain in this state and throw AS MANY as he wants without any negative side effects like huntress.
If you also count in the fact that Huntress has a 2 second cooldown after throwing a Hatchet, which would add up to a total of 3.25 seconds total after a "possible" successful hit. This is something Trickster doesn't need to worry about, as he can keep throwing blades to his hearts content with no penalty.
Trickster also has his INSANE throw rate multiplier which increases dramatically, the more blades he throws, increasing his overall lethality.
Ok, same can be said for Trickster, DS and Huntress. They have different powers and Skill caps, yet people compare them unfairly and have extreme bias...
Yeah, you threw the numbers out in another topic. It's actually irrelevant here, since the fact that he slows down at all is enough at shack to make it so easy to run.
And yeah, of course I'm terrible lmao, console Trickster is even worse than PC. I barely touch him. 8 knives is awful with mandatory recoil and occasional frame issues.
"Pre-firing" is not possible because he can't close enough distance to hit the Survivor when they're around the corner, even with good aim. If the Survivor is using vaults and being remotely smart, they'll loop him for 40+ seconds easily.
Also, Trickster does have to wind-up his knives like Huntress does. Not as much, but it's enough.
... And that's all I need to say. Any other number doesn't matter because he's too slow to keep up with the Survivor. Even if you get enough speed, you only get around 2 knives. 2 knives at every corner, with the Survivor using vaults to make it take longer? Still 30+ seconds.
Well being on console compared to PC changes things lol, its harder to aim and control the recoil, so makes sense why you believe he is trash. On PC he is much better. Also you can pre fire, i do it every match
This is true.
However, it is fair to compare Trickster to Plague, as the have almost the exact same power coding wise.
As I thought, the focus on that specific bit AND dismissal.
I wasn't using my experiences BTW, I was only saying that I don't play Trickster because of console. I was talking generally this whole time.
What are you on about? You mentioned something about console so i responded lol, we can agree to disagree then lol, no one will ever know the true power of him bar a few people.
Plague is completely different to Trickster, Trickster requires pin point accuracy, Plague doesn't, so that immediately takes her out of the equation.
"true power" by far I think he is the weakest ranged killer in the game
Huntress punishes mistakes 8 times as hard instead of just getting an extra 2-3 knives on the survivor
Deathslinger Much more versatile, and can use his power both for zoning and offensively stronger
Pyramid head, still at least a 115 which means at almost every single tile he is better off and has a ranged attack that can both over and through tiles, and since there are so many that make trickster useless all around pyramid head is just better
And in comparison to other killers I can only really think of 2 killers I would play trickster over since he is just bland and weak, sure he has potential to be mediocre but that doesn't mean I want to waste my time on a character when I can play someone with the potential to be great like blight or nurse.
They work the same coding wise.
See, Plagues vomit(and Corrupt purge, but I'm not talking about that) is actually multiple tiny projectiles. You don't get hit by the stream, you get hit by the projectiles that are inside it. You have to get hit by lots of these projectiles to become injured and broken. This is why sometimes when your vomit hits a survivor, they don't get sick. You have to hit multiple knives to injure and down as Trickster. Their powers work the same, but their playstyle are slightly different.
Trickster is basically a 4.4 Plague, making him a worse version of Plague.
Trickster is a really underrated killer IMO, def a lot stronger than most give credit for.
It's not a matter of if you're a good Trickster. It's a matter of how bad the survivors are. Trickster easily has the lowest "competence threshold" of any killer. Meaning survivors have to play really poorly in order to actually lose against him.
Those numbers you mentioned that contrast against Huntress hardly matter much in an actual game because despite being technically worse than Trickster in terms of throwing speed, holstering speed, etc, Huntress still only needs 1 hatchet to injure a survivor. A hatchet that can threaten survivors across the map and will always net you pressure if it hits.
You said that Trickster is good at zoning people in chases. But I think that's a white lie on your part. It's the only thing he can functionally do during a game to gain pressure.
You can't snipe with him because his knives are too easily dodged just by strafing at long ranges. And even if you land hits the laceration will just decay if you don't follow up. So what you're left with is a killer who's at the mercy of the map at all times and doesn't demand any respect from survivors during chases because of how many knives you have to land.
Trickster is the worse killer in the game. There's no magic "trick" to winning with him. No advanced technique that you can only unlock through hours of practise. He sucks. And that's all there is to him. The devs were too focused pandering to a demographic that hardly plays their game to begin with to bother design an interesting killer power.
I've read what you said the numbers are correct but numbers dont mean much in certain situations huntress at a jungle gym ready a hatchet just before the window now you have a 50/50 vault and see if she try's to call a bluff or throw at the window and hit them right there that's a chance to injure
trickster they vault the window and take 3 or 4 knives congrats you have half an injure now do it 4 more times that's a down and I would say what if they dont vault but they have no reason not to that wall protects them
So... honestly I would almost argue that Trickster isn't a chase killer.
Why?
Because like you said, there's a lot of structures that he can't really handle. Shack, Jungle Gyms, even TL walls can give him trouble without some nifty M1 mindgames. Main buildings are kind of hit and miss. What kind of chase centric killer can't handle those? A bad one, that's what.
However, there's some things he does far better than Huntress. Trickster's knives are actually more lethal than Huntress's hatchets are. Seriously, he can churn through Survivor health states far faster than any other ranged killer. I have had a LOT of unsafe unhooks turn into 2 Survivors eating dirt despite BT. It happens very frequently. Similarly, if a good Trickster finds a Survivor in a spot where they don't have easy access to a tile he can't handle... they kinda just die. Also, unlike Huntress, he doesn't have a 40m warning he's coming.
For those reasons, I would honestly say that Trickster isn't chase centric... he's Ambush centric and Territorial. If he's played to those strengths, he gets a lot better than everyone says he is. B tier is pushing it, but he can put in some real work.
He can be strong with more buffs like faster throwing and no recoil (like seriously recoil on a killer?) Other than that he's 110% he's going to do terrible in most loops. Yeah you can hit your shots through smaller openings than huntress but you need to hit 8 of them. You're better off using M1 in close range instead of your power to down them faster. Hes always gonna be compared to slinger and huntress because of the similarities. If a survivor vaults a window slinger and huntress can easily hit them and down them. But with trickster you'll only get about 2 or 3 hits before them run around again. His main event does nothing except if you're very close to the survivor then its maybe a free down but even then it takes too long to build. His zoning is ok but huntress and slinger even PH are better at it. Imo he can be ok against solos but you're not gonna do well against swf and decent survivors who know how to duck and loop.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. I too have been playing a lot of trickster and he can be so lethal its insane. His lethality goes up even more because survivors think he is awful so they play more in your face which usually doesnt pan out well for them. 100% not the worst killer on the game. I have beaten 10k hour teams with him. In that match i could name a handful of killers that would have just straight up lost if I was playing them instead of Trickster. His only true issue in my opinion is that his Main Event is pretty trash. Id like to see it reworked so it is basically the height of your power. Other than that he is in a really decent spot. Of course this is all if you are good at killer in general and can aim the knives with high accuracy.
Who hurt you 😂😂😂😂
THANK YOU! God, I thought I was the only one that thought he is strong, if you can aim well, and have good map knowledge, he is a monster! In main event i think there should be no recoil AND he throws the blades directly in the centre of the screen, atm in main even you hit like 40 percent of the like 100 blades.
He's definitely not the strongest but he's definitely not the worst. I'd definitely feel better with Trickster then Myers, Legion, or Trapper.
I agree with everything except Trickter being fun. Personally, I don't get much satisfaction from pure mechanical skill. I don't know why, it's just not my thing.
And that's honestly the most effective playstyle I've found for him, and it was quite by accident because I just wanted to practice my aim without worrying about mindgames and suddenly I was winning all the time. It got pretty dull after a while because, sure, I could have practiced and gotten to be a much better shot, but that's just not my thing.
I dunno dude. But whoever they were they haven't hurt me long enough to convince me that Trickster is good. Or that I should ignore logical arguments in favour of echoing people who already agree with me. I wish I can say the same for you...🤔
I main deathslinger, I've played a lot of Huntress, and I've certainly played Trickster.
I have not given up on Trickster, but I've needed to take large amounts of breaks because playing him in high ranks against constant swf makes me so stressed. I'm still trying him, I've done things with him. But, he's.. outclassed.
Let's take Huntress, she just shuts people down from really far away, and I've seen people actually sniper with her. She's phenomenal. It's hard to counter a person who's really accurate with her.
Now he's my boy deathslinger, you can loop me, you can out run me, you can do whatever you want. But, I'll always get my satisfaction towards the end. If I shoot you once, all I have to do is walk backwards to make it harder for you to break the chain, but even if you do, you're injured anyway with deep wound. But, if I hit you, I get my basic attack effects to proc.
NOED
Devour
Sloppy Butcher
Surge
STBFL
Third Seal
Gearhead
I always get my on hit effect and if you broke the chain, feel free to cure your mending. While I also don't need to stop and reload. I can reload on the go.
Trickster. I. I.. I don't understand him, 16 stab wounds. 16 stab wounds to down a survivor, with recoil. Lord. Give him less knives and remove recoil. That's a fair trade, but freaking recoil on knife throws is crazy. But, I don't get anything special from it. Huntress gets an addon that causes HINDERED. which slows a survivor down and allows Huntress to keep up her oppression. That's just an example.
These two get more bang for their buck than our friend Trickster. 16 stabs. 16 stabs that can be shut down faster by Huntress or debuffed by Deathslinger.
Trickster does need some oomph instead of fancy tricks that get him nowhere. He's outshined by these two.
I watched the footage it was nothing special. Those survivors were clearly casuals I would gotten the same results if I was playing the trickster. Those survivors had bad movement, they were horrible loopers, and did not not know how to counter play the trickster clearly. If you were going vs me as a survivor If I had decent solo teammates I would win, or I would the be the last person you would get because I know how to loop. But you yourself are admitting he is a weak killer like no other. He only excels in short tiles, and or open areas. If you were to face decent survivors who had decent movement, and knowledge of looping you are almost certainly going to lose the majority of the time. Because he is the second weakest killer that they have released in their entire history. So outside of short tiles, such as jungle gyms and shack he cannot handle it at all it takes to long if the survivor is an okay looper. And the shack could become an infinite vs him if the survivor knows how loop. But even though he a short terror radius some survivors use spine chill and immediately go running to the nearest high wall loop, at least the competent ones. Based on my experience having played every killer, he requires too much effort compared to the other killers he has to be played really sweaty if you wanna get any downs vs decent survivors, those survivors in the footage were not decent by any means. And the more I play him the more I see he is the only killer that I have to hope the survivors don't know how to properly loop.
Have you played him in rank 1???
Because I played all of those killers, trapper mostly and I found I gotten more wins with the trapper, than with the trickster. And I even had to put way less efforts to get downs with the trapper.
First it's a little funny you say this while your name is Trickstaaaaa and just personal experience I've found more success with Trickster although little more then those three.
I named my account this since I wanted to be an advocate for the trickster. Which is why I made this account around the time he was going to be released. But I been playing longer. But I feel based on what I experience it's possible to get downs vs competent survivors but I feel he requires the most effort out of all the killers if the survivors are decent loopers.
Yeah it's harder to launch weak machine knives then stalking and stabbing. Or running and Stabbing. But despite the extra effort I feel Trickster can handle better.
Um... What footage? Did you quote the right person?
The stream or whatever people wanna call it. He has a link to a stream that shows some survivors going up against him in the OP thread. Which they were casual survivors.
It could never matter how bad the survivors are if you play with any killer, and defeat team's you'll feel invincible. Everything you do in a match will fall upon you're ability, if you constantly make mistakes then The Trickster will feel weak and you've probably wasted a lot of time.He has alot of potential but time will always be any killer's downfall he's not built to handle map pressure so he'll feel weak ,if you don't have a good gen defense that's also going to be a problem because he needs alot of time.He has a higher throwing rate than Huntress while you can take one health state with one throw ,but you can miss 4 hatches and land 1 which you'll be in the same position as The Trickster and will be looped by a good survivors, with a higher rate of fire however this gives you multiple opportunities to land hit's.
I also agree you should be able to activate Main Event when you want,this is his game changing ability an most of the time from the few games,I've played survivors are nowhere near you when the ability is activated.
This is 100% wrong. How can you compare hatchets to knives when one instantly injures while the other has to be landed 8 times? I’m legit not sure if people in this thread are trolling or don’t understand the game.
Wind up, fire rate, and cool down. Because all of those are faster for Trickster, he can unload 16 knives before Huntress can let fly with 2 charged hatchets. And he loses less distance while doing it. Doubly so if he's got one of the initial fire rate add ons.
But again.... one huntress hit is a health state, so you only have to land 2 at most. Why go to more trouble? The same goes for Deathslinger (who can hit shots huntress cannot)
Speed.
Everything Trickster does is theoretically faster than anything Huntress or Deathslinger does. The main downside Trickster has compared to them is that he needs to maintain Line of Sight for far longer. Depending on the tile, that's either not a problem or a really big problem.
In my opinion he's like Clown, because the fact that his power can be used in a way that requires no skill tricks people into thinking he's a low skill character.
He's not. He requires loads of mechanical skill to work.
OMG 😂 You just went on a massive rant about how he is the worst in the game etc.. Ignoring all of what i said
It was just an example of footage i managed to get, i go against SWF, 5000 hour survivors every day and he is still good.
Love playing trickster and having to hit survivors 8 times to injure them. You put 7 knives in a survivor at shack? Well you either commit or let the laceration decay with no effort on the survivors part. The only loop trickster is good at is low wall loops and that's actually sad