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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3080864#Comment_3080864
I'm pretty sure plenty people love hiding though, lot of people choose relatively silent/dark color survivors
Also Iron will was meta despite all it does is help them stealth.
uh-huh, and i'm not claiming there aren't people who enjoy it.
Does not change the fact that this OP started a topic just about winning matches, and a lot of people care about fun more than just winning.
Saying "iron will was meta despite it only helping with stealth" is an over-simplification. By that phrasing, you could go and compare it to Urban Evasion which also "only helps with stealth"... I feel like I shouldn't have to explain how valuable it is to silence loud moaning noises to prevent the killer from knowing exactly where you are when injured.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3080850#Comment_3080850
So essentially there was no solo que nerf, the general survivor role got nerfed and they're just personalizing it. Alright then.
exactly.
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@PaintedDeath said:
And I'll tell you why.
The meta changed. People have begun to figure out, that stealth is king. It isn't worth your time to even begin a chase, it's gonna end with you down. So wait. Listen. Their terror radius approaches. You see them. They are patroling the gens. Wait for them to leave. They leave. You jump on gen. Out of the corner of your eye comes the other survivor you hadn't even noticed. Nice. That makes great use of your Prove Thy Self. You two sit on then gen. This killer knows that gens take forever now. They been getting 4k's with 5 gens untouched for two days now. They aren't paying attention. Bing, well look at that! Is that a gen down without even so much as a hit? How did that happen? Then bing, another gen. Now I'm freaking out. #########? How did this happen? All the while, that Killer, OMFG what is happening? What? No! Why? and then, the game is afoot! Guess what! We have beaten you! We found your weakness, and we have exploited it! Now what good sir! Can you defend these next three?!
Oh man, I'm telling you. Good times, good times. Glad to be here.
The issue with this topic is that you only care about winning the match, and suggesting to do so by avoiding an entire game mechanic (chasing).
At that point, you're playing Gen Mechanic Simulator. If you have fun doing that just to win, then good for you. But the rest of us want to play the entirety of Dead By Daylight and we want to have fun doing so.
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@MrPenguin said:
So I'm seeing this idea thrown around a lot that solo que was specifically nerfed harder in this patch than survivor in general somehow, and I just don't see where.
Can someone explain this idea?
DS nerf hits everyone equally, so does DH and gen times.
Survivors got OTR, so you don't even need to worry about your teammates bringing BT, you can do it yourself. So isn't that better for solos?
Survivor in general got weaker so of course solo que did because... they're survivors. But what is specifically targeting solo que?
A quick explanation to this phenomenon is that a lot of people can only see things from their own perspective.
So some solo queue players will exclaim that "solo queue needs to be buffed! why did they nerf solo queue so hard??"
While, the game has gotten boring and miserable for most people playing survivor now.
(by the way, im not saying only "solo queue players" are like this. a lot of people in general are fairly bad at looking at things objectively without putting themselves at the center of it)
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
You know what that means. I know what that means. Everyone know what that means.
NEED. SOLO Q. BUFFS. ASAP.
We don't need specific buffs for solo queues.
We need the game to simply not be miserable for survivors.
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@EternalSinOfCain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3078775#Comment_3078775
Just like when Dead Hard first came out and Survivors were using map offerings to get Auto Haven and Dead Hard onto cars so they couldn't be hit? How about the years killers spent with old Lampkin Lane, where House Of Pain was legit an infinite. You know like back before the Entity blocked windows? Didn't see those maps get disabled. How about the years "Fat Shame" spots existed? How about there are still "Comp corners" where if a hook breaks there, the Killer legit can't get a Survivor to a hook?
Oh last I checked, The Killer have debuffs on their Glyphs too. Maybe leave your Survivor Bias at the door next time.
that's way back and at that time the devs didn't disable maps the same way they do now, and they didn't push fixes very fast, let alone complete map reworks which were required for fixes to that. The issues with unbreakable hex and boon totems happened within months of each other, at which time the devs had the means to disable maps in both cases but chose to only do it the moment it affected killers
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@PiiFree said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3078578#Comment_3078578
tbh I've seen many posts already of Survivors threatening to quit the game or switch over to Killer. The Killer queue times are also ridiculously high at the moment, which is new to me.
well it's no surprise if the devs make the game miserable for survivors while making improvements for killers.
I've said this before and I'll say it again, but the developers love coddling and hand holding the killer side.
further proof of this:
- • Much more effort going into buffing/reworking killers. If survivors ever get anything decent it's nerfed shortly afterwards due to complaints.
- • Glyph challenges - gives debuffs and secondary objectives to survivors. there's glyph challenges that literally make survivors oblivious.
- • When there were boons that killers couldn't break, the affected maps were immediately disabled to get hotfixed. But when this issue existed with unbreakable hex totem spots, that went on for a long time and the maps weren't disabled.
The latest patch proves it further.
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Lol what the hell happened to this thread?
Her 3D model legit looks glitchy:
This is what i mean when I said it looks like they scaled up joints in her 3D rig without adjusting the base mesh
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Killers: Thanks BHVR!
Survivors: Thanks, BHVR....
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Old self-care was already terrible and a waste of time to use, so there was no reason to nerf it
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072405#Comment_3072405
By that logic, what about the enjoyment of the killer? If they haven’t secured a kill by that point they are probably having a bad match and feeling bad. How about let the killer have their kill and leave. According to the devs 1k is still a win to the survivor team and a loss to the killer.
The issue with this type of game where a player needs to eliminate other players you probably are going to ruin someone’s enjoyment. I’m not saying players shouldn’t try to consider others but you’re always going to have people upset just because they were eliminated no matter how fair you try to play.
"But what about the enjoyment of xxx..?"
Listen, there's a big difference between someone directly causing grief to another person, and someone simply not enjoying a situation. You could not enjoy a situation for a multitude of reasons, and if that reason is simply that you're losing in a game, then there's nobody to blame. You win some, you lose some. But if you then decide to behave in a way that you know is hated by the other players of the game, then you are making a conscious decision to ruin the enjoyment of somebody else. You are the direct cause of grief in the other person. For example, survivors taunting or teabagging, killers face camping* or taking the game hostage. These are things people do despite knowing it will ruin enjoyment of someone else.
Do you see the difference here?
People with a bit a maturity can enjoy a game no matter if they win or lose. It is possible for all 5 players in a game of dbd to all have fun even tho one side has to lose. First step is to stop justifying bad manners and just try to play for fun, no matter if you win or lose.
*Note that when I say face camping, I am not talking about hard camping or proxy camping.
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I have to admit that the game mechanic that's meant to stop the timer when you're being chased can be a bit wonky.
They could definitely work on fixing it so the timer pauses during those times when you know Piggy is creeping up on you but the game doesn't recognize it as a chase. Like, it's meant to pause in a chase 'cause if it doesn't pause properly in those moments there won't be much time left to get the bear trap off. I've had times where I hear chase music where she's clearly chasing me, but due to distance and temporary LoS breaks, the timer was still ticking
But I agree, don't turn it into a nerf, just fix the intended mechanic
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072358#Comment_3072358
The wiki's description is wrong, someone typed in an old one or mistyped it. Here's the actual description from the game itself. It matches the patch notes.
thanks! That is a pretty weird change
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@BubbleBuster said:
on most perks i agree, they didnt get nerfed, they got deleted which is dumb (IW, Self-care, DS, spine chill, pop, ruin)
HOWEVER, I am very happy that dead hard is gone completely.
It turned bad players into decent ones, decent into good ones and good ones into unbeatable ones.
It required 0 skill and other perks that have a similar effect have a condition attached to it (deliverance requires an unhook, MoM requires protection hits) or they only work in niche circumstances (DS when getting tunneled, unbreakable when slugged)
Dead Hard worked in chases. Chases aren't niche. Chases are a big part of the game. It also had 1 condition which was... being injured... something that happens in nearly every chase and game.
It provided distance, complete safety, invulnerability and sometime intangibility when you somehow teleport through the killer.
It was absolutely miserable to play against if the survivor knew what they were doing since it had 0 counterplay.
Deleting mindgames, deleting skill, deleting mistakes just because the survivor pressed E is not good design.
Now, I am not talking about balance. Maybe DH was balanced, who knows? I don't. It was certainly a good perk but I don't know how much it influenced winrates of survivors. too many different variables.
What it was though is completely unfun to play against and really fun to use since E = more getting chased = more fun.
I wish they would ve just completely reworked it. An effect of avoiding and completely cancelling a hit the killer worked for should not be given for pressing E. There should either be a condition to it OR it should just not exist.
I loved reading "it requires 0 skill", while remembering all the times I watched survivors dead hard into walls just before I smacked them :')
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072377#Comment_3072377
You're entitled to your opinion but I do not agree :)
I think that's all that really needs to be said
you're right, I care about the enjoyment of everyone in games I play and not just my own, and you're entitled to disagree with that way of thinking 👌
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@hastarkis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072358#Comment_3072358
Because it was stated that way by the devs, as far as I remember. In QA stream or later on forum. And it should be that way, honestly, since they were trying to nerf the perk. And it's a logic way to implement see-the-sound feature. But now it's even worse than earlier. I like it but that's deffinetely unfair.
TR indicator is cool thing tho, I like it. Helps a lot, even tho I don't have any hear issues.
Lol who would have thought? BHVR attempting to nerf a perk and accidentally buffing it 💪
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072330#Comment_3072330
"I'm the killer and I'm trying to make sure you die because all gens are done" = "I don't see you as a person, i'm intentionally trying to ruin your match"
Sound logic my guy. Talk about a reach
I don't care if being camped during endgame annoys you, I'm not doing it TO annoy you, I'm doing it to secure a kill out of a losing game. If you have a problem with it, don't get caught during endgame. Simple as
i have given you plenty of comparisons between trying to secure a kill with good behavior, and trying to do it with poor behavior.
I can only explain it to you, but I cannot understand it for you.
I never said I'm annoyed by getting face camped. I absolutely love it. Because I know I'll get away (as I explained earlier why face camping is a dumb tactic to begin with), and it's always funny to watch bad behavior fail when the other survivors come to the rescue 😀
But compared to you, I don't only look at things from my own perspective, and I'm aware that there are a lot of people who hate getting face camped.
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@Talvi said:
Can confirm that: I tested it with a friend in a custom lobby. We tested it both with a pyramid head and a ghostface, insidious and killer power.
It doesnt matter if the killer is undetectable. The only thing that is based on the TR is the red indicator.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072303#Comment_3072303
The only thing based on line of sight is the action speed. The patch note description does in fact say "Get notified when the killer is within 36-meter-range. If the Killer is within range and is looking at you with a clear line of sight, your speed while repairing, [...]". Which is exactly what the perk does.
I honestly hope they change that. Old spine chill had some counterplay for stealth killers, this doesnt.
that's weird, i'm looking at the wiki right now and they phrase the perk like this:
Whenever the Killer is within 36 metres of your location and has direct line-of-sight to you, Spine Chill activates:
- • Increases your Action speeds in Repairing, Healing, Sabotaging, Unhooking, Cleansing, Blessing, Opening, and Unlocking by 2/4/6 %.
- • This effect lingers for 0.5 seconds.
Spine Chill reveals the intensity of the Killer's Terror Radius.
Based on this description, it sounds like the action speed bonus is the only thing affected by 36 meters + LoS, and that it should only be able to detect the intensity of the terror radius... Meaning stealth killers should be undetected unless they have line of sight?
At least that's what it sounds like, but it seems that from people's experience this isn't the case... weird.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072271#Comment_3072271
playing the game a way you specifically don't like = bad sportsmanship
give me a break
don't take getting camped so personally, the killer probably forgets you even exist after the match ends
Playing ANY game involving other people, whether it's a video game, or a board game on family game night, and you act in a way that intentionally annoys the other participants due to your own behavior... that's the definition of poor sportsmanship.
It's easy for people like you to forget that everyone involved in a game is a person, trying to have a good time. Just because two people are on the opposite team doesn't mean they're enemies, and it doesn't mean it's alright to behave poorly
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3070270#Comment_3070270
Per the patch notes
- Spine Chill Reworked: Get notified when the Killer within a 36-meter range. If the Killer is within range and is looking at you with a clear line of sight, your speed while repairing, sabotaging, healing, unhooking, cleansing, blessing, opening exit gates and unlocking is increased by 2%/4%/6%. The effects of Spine Chill linger for 0.5 seconds after the Killer looks away or is out of range. Spine Chill's icon indicates the strength of the Killer's Terror Radius.
Notice that it lights up if the killer is within 36 meter range, no exceptions. The only thing that changes due to terror radius is the special indicator showing terror radius strength, but that is independent of the 36 meter radius notification. Also line of sight is only for activating the action speed bonus, even if the killer doesn’t have line of sight the survivor is still notified if they’re within 36 meters.
(Edit: The description of the perk on the DBD wiki is false, so the following message is based on false information. Ignore it)
---------------------
Reading that description, it's a nerf to old spine-chill.
Old spine chill, the icon simply lit up if the killer was within the radius and looking towards your general direction. The moment the killer looked away, the icon stopped lighting up, so you could tell easily if the killer was going toward you or if the killer was just nearby but not approaching.
After the update, there are 2 main nerfs:
- The icon now stays lit up for 0.5 seconds, meaning it's much harder to determine whether the killer is going towards you or if the killer was just nearby and happened to look in your general direction for a moment.
- Now requires "clear line of sight", meaning that walls, trees, rocks, etc will block Spine Chill from activating. It will make Spine Chill nearly useless while working on generators, as these are usually hidden behind walls, rocks, trees, etc.
Remember, the description of the perk is:
"Whenever the killer is within 36 meters AND has direct line of sight." Meaning both has to be true at the same time. Based on this description it shouldn't activate from proximity unless the killer also has line of sight.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072234#Comment_3072234
But you're still camping
Staring in the face or not
Yes they are different but it's the same goal: Securing a kill when all gens are done.
So again, I make the assertion camping in the endgame is perfectly fine and killers shouldn't be penalised for it nor is it bad sportsmanship.
🤪 I give up with you.
Clearly you don't understand the difference between good and bad sportsmanship.
If you think two different methods are the same just because they share the same goal, then i don't know what to tell you.
If your goal is to become a millionaire, and you get a choice between earning it, or robbing a bank, surely you could distinguish which option is good and which option is bad.
Similarly, if your goal is to secure a 1k during endgame collapse, and your option is to either just stand 5 inches in front of the hook like a sack of salty potatoes, or tactically keeping an eye on the hooked person while searching the area for other survivors... in this case there's an option where you're just playing to the best of your abilities, and an option where you're just a salty poor sport.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072178#Comment_3072178
Face camping, proxy camping - this is just semantics
If all gens are done and I hook a dude, I'm not leaving the area until he's dead or someone trades
It's not BM or w/e. That's the gist of it and there's nothing wrong with it
Face camping / Proxy camping are different things. ... Unless you're the kind of person who uses pledge and donate synonymously.
Nobody's expecting you to fully ignore the person on the hook. But the OP was talking about proximity penalty, implying close proximity to the hook.
You don't have to stand right next to a hook to proxy camp and keep track of what's happening over there. Depending on the killer, there are other more advantageous ways to position yourself and making sure the rescue is unsuccessful. ... Unless you're Bubba, then you just stand there. But that's why nobody likes Bubba.
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@Ramanga said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072135#Comment_3072135
I 100% agree, I made the same points when I warned about this weeks ago. When I said "we could see this coming from weeks away", I'm referring to the unfolding disaster and community anger, not the arcane steps needed to forestall item and progress loss.
thank you for clarifying <3
I'm always amazed that BHVR so often manages to mess things up and make their playerbase upset, when the community always sees these things coming...
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072154#Comment_3072154
Implying securing a kill is bad sportsmanship comparable to tbagging
It's not
Especially not in the endgame
Face camping is not the same as securing a kill.
If you do that against most experienced survivors, they'd force you to hit one of them while another one goes for the rescue, then body block for each other and everyone would escape 🙂
Face camping is 100% bad manners done by people who get salty and don't know how to properly play the game.
If you REALLY want to secure a kill you'd try to injure the other survivors and force them out of the gate.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072121#Comment_3072121
Good sportsmanship is playing to win until the game actually ends mate
Just giving up when all gens are done is anti-climatic and boring as hell. Both sides
It's not over until it's over. Be it 1k or 4 man out
I know being camped isn't fun but AT LEAST when it's in the endgame it's completely understandable and it shouldn't be stigmatised. It's not bad sportsmanship nor does it have anything to do with maturity.
It's like you didn't even read my message.
I never said to give up.
You can try to get kills WITHOUT standing still 5 inches in front of the survivor on the hook.
You can keep trying with good sportsmanship instead of resorting to bad manners.
Imagine the opposite scenario, if the survivors lost hard:
Only 1 generator got done, 3 survivors got killed and the killer found and closed the hatch, and is chasing the final survivor.
Now, the survivor can also choose to be a good sport or a bad sport. You could keep trying to escape the killer and loop to the best of your ability... oooor you could run over to a pallet and start spam crouching to taunt the killer.
Like, you can be a good sport AND try your best, you don't have to resort to salty behavior and bad manners
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@Ramanga said:
We could see this coming from weeks away. When they increased the bonus prestige levels for old prestige levels and didn't adjust the prestige levels awarded for number of perks unlocked, they set the community up for strife and discord
Remember, not everybody follows social media and news about patches. Some may have been unavailable to play the game.
It would have been much better for them to make the transfer fair, rather than justifying a poor transfer with "hey they posted about it".
I have played this game for many years now, and I have over 1500 hours of playtime. I never thought I would have to stress-grind 10 additional levels before a patch or I'd be set back 110 levels... I didn't find out about this until a friend asked if I wanted to come check out the new patch.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072068#Comment_3072068
Ahaha what???
"You've already lost, so let us rescue and all escape"
What kind of entitlement is that? I'm sorry but what
Camping 1 person out to get a kill is not tryharding, get a grip.
After letting all 5 generators get done and the gates opening without getting a single kill, the game is pretty much lost. You have 2 options:
- Show good sportsmanship, still do your best without standing still in front of the hook
- Resort to face camping just to maybe get that 1k, and still lose the match.
I suppose it's a matter of maturity, some people realize games are just for fun and you don't win every match, while others just care about winning and can't accept a loss
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072029#Comment_3072029
There is absolutely nothing wrong with securing a 1k out of a losing game
There's no gens to defend and gates get 99'd. Unless you're a high mobility killer, you aren't getting much more.
There's also nothing wrong with accepting that you've lost, instead of try-harding just to get virtual points in a video game.
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071823#Comment_3071823
"If reaching Prestige 1 pre-patch boosts you to Prestige 3 post-patch, then reaching level 40 with each character pre-patch would be the equivalent of getting boosted to Prestige 2 with bloodweb level 40."
No, it wouldn't. The catch up mechanic for characters who neve prestiged was based on how many perk tiers (that's tiers, nor perks) they unlocked. A level 40 character wouldn't have enough to hit the minimum fly P1 (70 tiers)
it would indeed be the equivalent.
Pre-update, people who reached level 50 and clicked "prestige" would now be prestige 3.
Pre-update, people who reached level 40 for only the teachables, stay at this level without any prestiges.
The difference in grinding done between level 40 and prestige 1 is 10 levels, yet the people who stayed at level 40 are now 110 levels behind.
To make it a fair boost for anyone who put effort into grinding perks, people who stayed at level 40 should be put 10 levels behind those who reached level 50, which would bring the old level 40's into Prestige 2 level 40
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I have this same issue.
I had grinded every character to 40 because that's all I had to do according to the game.
After that point, I unlocked every perk on Nea, and even after I had all the perks I continued spending millions of bloodpoints on her bloodweb even tho there weren't any perks left, only items.
I feel like it's unfair for prestige 1 characters to be insta-boosted to prestige 3, when characters left at level 40 without prestige gets nothing.
it bothers me that prior to the update I was done grinding, but now in order to be "done" by the standards of the new system, I need to gain an additional +110 levels for every character.
To me, it's not fair that I am asked to grind +110 additional levels just because I was only 10 levels behind prior to the update
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071727#Comment_3071727
Their level 1 teachables are locked, and I saw the on PTB as well, but do they have the perks in their inventories? In other words, do your non-Nea survivors have a stock of yellow perks on them they didn't have before?
Okay yeah, they have Rank 1 of every perk. But this may as well be the same as not having them. Rank 1 perks are terrible, and I am obviously not going to bring them into any match.
Out of 7 pages of perks, 5 pages and a little bit into the 6th page are yellow perks.
After spending all the bloodpoints the game asked from me in order to unlock all the perks, I am expecting these perks to be available to me at rank 3. But in order to get there now, I need to gain +110 additional bloodweb levels for every character again.
What really bothers me with how they handled the transfer, was that before the update I could have just gained +10 levels for every character and it would have boosted them all to prestige 3. The fact that they have the threshold prestige 1 instead of simply having the perks unlocked is extremely aggravating since by previous standards, players who had reached level 40 had done everything they needed to unlock the perks.
Edit: TL:DR;
If reaching Prestige 1 pre-patch boosts you to Prestige 3 post-patch, then reaching level 40 with each character pre-patch would be the equivalent of getting boosted to Prestige 2 with bloodweb level 40.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071577#Comment_3071577
Did you check? If you unlocked them the old way they should be at level 1 on everyone.
@Zeidoktor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071577#Comment_3071577
No you haven't. Everything you've unlocked should still be available and, unless I'm mistaken, now unlocked on tier 1, minimum, on all characters.
If it works the same as ptb, you should have the P1 reward without actually being P1.
I have checked. I don't have the perks unlocked anymore. I do have the perks on Nea, because I had previously unlocked all of them in her bloodweb. But when going to any other character, it says their teachable perks are locked.
As I said, I had only gotten the characters to level 40 pre-update to unlock the teachables. After that I spent all bloodpoints unlocking the perks on 1 character. (it appears you needed to reach prestige 1 to be eligible to get boosted to prestige 3, which makes no sense since their teachables previously unlocked at level 40, not prestige 1)
Now after the update, all the characters besides Nea still sit at level 40, no prestige, and their level 1 teachables are locked. So I've gone from having all teachables unlocked, to now having them taken back.
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I had unlocked every perk in the game**.
But I never cared about prestige, so I left them all at level 40.
Didn't know about the prestige changes until after the update dropped (i'm not active on social medias).
I have now lost access to all the perks that took 1000+ hours to unlock.
Great system!
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071165#Comment_3071165
I don't think any other perk affects every survivor globally. Oh yeah, that awful luck one. It is definitively a secondary effect, it could easily only work for the user like bond or anything else. I run windows frequently and always appreciate it when someone on my team has open handed.
Feel free to disagree with my opinion on the change to lethal pursuer, but by objective definition Open Handed only has 1 primary perk effect and no secondary perk effect. By your definition, perks like Kindred has secondary effects "because it affects all other survivors". The effect in case of Open Handed is "Aura Range Buff", and "affecting all survivors" isn't another effect, it is simply who the effect applies to.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071023#Comment_3071023
Yes, but look at the frequency for those top perks. They vastly outclass the others by usage .More perks should always be viable and open handed already has a secondary effect that most other perks don't: it is global and affects every survivor.
that's not a secondary effect, that's the one and only effect. A secondary effect would be something unrelated to the first one. For example: "increase range of aura abilities of all survivors by 16m" together with "see the aura of xxx...."
There are a lot of things that affect the survivors as a group, since they are a team. The "affects everyone" part of Open Handed will mostly go unused or unnoticed outside of SWF groups doing something very specific. it's not a very common or even useful perk, since most survivor aura reading abilities already have a decent range.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3070929#Comment_3070929
It was hardly popular. Niche on killers with mobility and that's about it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/324307/perk-usage-by-mmr-data
not even in the top twelve. The secondary effect makes it fit into way more builds and make it a more versatile and interesting perk.
There are 97 killer perks in total, so top 12 is only top 12.3%, and doesn't say much since that'll be reserved for the really good meta perks.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
This isn't how the game works. Many perks have secondary effects and just because a killer perk is changed doesn't mean a survivor one has to be changed in turn.
I agree changing one doesn't necessarily mean the other also has to be changed. But I also feel like Lethal Pursuer didn't need to be changed at all. It also doesn't change that I feel like an aura enhancing perk like this would fit as it's own perk, as part of a full aura reading build to easily locate survivors.
Lethal Pursuer was already a semi-frequent perk, used often enough to where you watch out for it at the start of matches.
Since the latest patch has done a lot to "change the meta", it seems out of place to buff an already popular perk.
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@prion11 said:
- Make her 4.4 ms
- Remove 1 of her blinks
- Make that one blink a bit longer than currently
- Give her a couple seconds more time to move and swing after blink and before miss fatigue
This keeps her identity as the blinking killer, but gives survivors more of a chance to dodge, also allowing her to actually be played around pallets and windows a bit since players would be encouraged to not always hit the perfect blink, but get close and then move at 4.4 for a few seconds to get the attack
to be honest #4 would make her harder to dodge. if she's able to move more towards you after the blink then she doesn't need to aim her blink as well in order to get a hit in.
Dodging nurse is all about mind gaming the moment before she blinks. Change your direction randomly while she is about to blink. mix in some fake changes in direction just before she blinks. If you're a medium distance away and you see her charging the blink for a while? Run towards her, she'll overshoot the blink. There's a lot of things you can do to make her blink in the wrong direction or wrong distance.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3029575#Comment_3029575
Na. Nurse is fun. The folks who hate her are the ones who want to play hold W and pre drop 20 pallets simulator. They don't want to learn to counter her.
makes sense.
that's how i am when i face trickster. I feel like there's nothing i can do because I can't dodge every knife, so eventually they get me downed. I'm sure that's similar in the sense that i just don't know how to counter it
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I dont know if i'm stupid or something (because i know this is an unpopular opinion), but as a survivor I love going up against nurses.
I feel like she's a very skill based killer, so individual player skill matters a lot.
Since she's very skill dependent, top tier nurse players are of course great at her, but you can practice mind gaming her while she blinks to make her overshoot or miss. For me it's some of the most fun chases that I experience in the game.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3024567#Comment_3024567
Objectivity does not mean side with the majority.
Also the forums are rife with confirmation bias which severely limits objectivity.
You want an objective approach to perks then look at how often they are run and how they are applied in game, is that application in line with their intended use and what impact does it have game outcome.
Rational objectivity in a nutshell, observing measurable outcomes within established guidelines without preferential bias.
After looking at that then you can ask does this make things more or less fun and take player feedback into account.
But the ‘fun’ is completely subjective. Just like your two examples. Both are built on the highly subjective ideas of annoyance and player behaviour perceived as bad.
There is nothing wrong with empathetic thinking I.e. I can see why this annoys someone else but even that doesn’t make it an objective approach to game mechanics.
uh-huh, so you throw the point of the topic out the window because you get stuck on the use of a word? I even said that seeing it from an impartial standpoint may be a better word choice than objective standpoint. Like, you understand the point, so why write a wall of text whining about the use of a single word?
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3024449#Comment_3024449
You also chose to ignore it.
None of what you put here is objective it’s still all subjective.
You created two arbitrary scenarios and qualified one as fun and one not fun in a completely subjective manner.
Many elements of dbd are zero sum because the goal is objective denial of your opponent. This doesn’t make them inherently ‘unfun’.
By objective I mean distance your own opinion and consider how it's perceived by the majority. Don't just go "i enjoy this therefore it must be a part of the game". If the thing you enjoy is annoying to 90% of people who are on the other end of the stick, then from an impartial standpoint, your enjoyment causes irritation in other players. (i suppose impartial may be a better word choice than objective?)
For example, in my case, I personally think Dead Hard is fine, but I am aware that a majority of players hate going against it, therefore I understand it needs to change. It's not a necessity to play and enjoy the game, and due to it causing so much grief, it's not worth letting it stay the way it is. As with my example on DS, it's a perk for countering something that's widely considered bad behavior, and you can avoid it completely by avoiding that behavior. In this case, the source of grief is the tunneling, and DS is the solution and only causes grief to the people who were willing to cause grief to others. You with me still? Yeah this is difficult to comprehend for some people.
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I should have known better than to think these forums would be mature enough to handle this kind of feedback 👌
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@versacefeng said:
I'll repeat this - having fun is subjective!
That sentence is the reason why they can't make sure the game is fun.
you chose to completely ignore the sentence following it. you can look at something objectively.
Extreme example - but someone could say "i love punching people in the face!". Most people will understand that for a majority of people, receiving a punch to the face is not a fun experience.
A lot of things i see complained about on the forums can have a similar view applied to them. And as I've said, consider if your idea of fun is at the expense of someone else's enjoyment.
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How sure are you that it was ragequitting? I had a match recently (tonight) where 3 of us lost connection to the server at the same time, right as we were opening the exit gate. If 4 people DC that early in the game because of 1 hook, that could be an explanation.
even if it was true ragequitting, what's the point in complaining about it on the forums? just move on
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@RaSavage42 said:
Unless that Survivor wants to be downed again... I have seen happen a few times
Players think that (with DS) "I have this perk I might as well get use out of it"
Yeah and it's obvious when people attempt that.
if the survivor baits you into a chase again soon after they're unhooked, that's a big red flag, and it's best to leave them. They'll waste their time trying to grab your attention while you go do something else.
Edit: Also to be fair, this started happening more after the previous change to DS where it's now disabled if you perform any action that progresses the match. After that, some people felt like "if i touch a gen, I waste a perk, so i'm gonna go chase the killer down!". It's a side-effect of an attempt to nerf the perk.
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I forgot to mention this since Nurse/Blight was brought up:
I actually love playing against them. Those are 2 of few killers where i feel like it's a test of skills for both sides simultaneously. So I understand why they're played so much at high MMRs, because it takes skill to play them well, and takes skill for survivors to dodge them well.
it's always exciting to hear a nurse screech in the distant fog, and wondering if I'm skilled enough to dodge her blinks <3
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@Exxodus21 said:
DS is overly relied on. It's not so much used as an anti-tunneling perk as it is an "I can bodyblock with DS/BT/Unbreakable and be invincible and there's nothing you can do about it" perk. Not to mention it's basically a guaranteed escape during endgame if the gates are either opened or 99%.
Things that reduce chase times are what the game needs. No one wants longer gen times and we've been repeatedly told there will not be a secondary objective. Even with NOED complained about so much, people still refuse to break totems because they just want to do gens and escape. So this is where we are.
The real problems are with Nurse and Blight. They are what needs to be looked at. If they need to lose their charges when DS'd then so be it, but this change is healthy for the game and the majority of the killer roster.
I play both sides. As survivor, I don't rely on Decisive Strike, yet I'm with the people who think the nerf makes no sense.
Lowering the stun to 3 seconds? Defeats the purpose. It's an anti-tunneling perk, meant for you to get distance away from the killer so they'll give up on the chase and go do something else. Not to mention the survivor is also stunned for a second during the drop animation, so they don't get the full 3 seconds lead. To make things worse, it's affected by the poor netcode of the game, so if the killer lags, survivor gets even less time to run. I've had it happen where the killer lagged so hard during Decisive that he was able to swing right after the drop. Extreme case, but if the stun duration is 3 seconds and survivor is stuck in a 1 second animation, then even 200 ping would take 10% away from the intended duration.
Disabling Decisive Strike during end-game collapse? This is more fair. I've seen so many killers struggle to just get a single kill at this phase, so trying to secure the kill on that person who just got unhooked before they reach the exit gate is much more fair. However, there have been times where I've used Deliverance + DS + Borrowed as an "anti-face camping build". allows you to unhook someone who's being face camped during end-game collapse, then you take the hook on purpose, Deliverance off, Decisive strike, and leave through the gate. In this case, it's a counter towards bad killer behavior, so it's unfortunate this won't work anymore. But overall, i think it's a fair change to disable it during end-game collapse.
Solution for killers who hate DS:
Don't tunnel. I have no complaints with DS when i play killer, because i try to not go after the same survivor again immediately after they're unhooked. This is EXACTLY why decisive strike is needed, so that a survivor being tunneled gets a 2nd chance. And it's supposed to be a big punish to the killer, because if you single out a single survivors, then you're sucking the fun out of the match for that person. It's easy to forget that we play with other people, and both sides have behaviors that ruin the fun for others. And when the easy counter/solution to a perk is "don't be a dick and the perk won't affect you", then nothing needs to be done to the perk.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2998761#Comment_2998761
Yeah I do get that part, but I still think it's way too much, because there will be situations, especially early on, where you are going to use yout teleport more frequently. And I am absolutely certain BHVR will not nerf dredge this hard.
I really need to know though, are you using Call of Brine with him? You realise it takes 40 seconds to regress 10 seconds of gen progress, and that's only when one survivor is working on the gen? How are you staying close to one gen that long, without survivors just finishing another gen? Any smart survivor team will split up on at least two different gens.
There is no way that works against good survivors, not even withg Call of Brine. And as I said, in many cases, you won't have lockers right next to gens, and you won't have one gen right between the other two gens, so you can hear the third gen that you are just passing.
During Nightfall of course his map pressure becomes stronger, and he can definitely defend gens very effectively, of course at the cost of downing survivors most likely, if he is really just teleporting from one gen to another.
In general though this all just doesn't add up. 12 seconds of cooldown is not broken at all, and it seems like most people agree with that. The more I play with him, t he more I think his basekit is totally fine. The only thing I could see needing a nerf in the future is his Nightfall, aside maybe from a few minor aspects, but maybe they'll also just increase the time it takes to activate Nightfall, or the duration of Nightfall, we'll see.
I really don't know what to tell you, I'm talking from my experience with him, not some wild theories based on numbers.
And as said earlier, i'm facing meta slave teams frequently with the usual dead hard / borrowed / decisive.
No, I'm not using Call of Brine with him, I used whatever perks I had by the time I levelled him to 20. Only perk I had that felt like it did something was Fearmonger since that is pretty useful against dead hards.
you're saying "You realise it takes 40 seconds to regress 10 seconds of gen progress" and "12 seconds of cooldown is not broken at all"
You do realize that the survivors won't even get 10 seconds of progress if my teleport cooldown is 12 seconds? Like i said before, I end up knowing exactly where they are, so I am THERE the moment the survivors touch the generator. By the time they've given up on the generator it's been minutes of me aggressively protecting it. I mentioned this before but there was a match where there were 3 gens left, of which 2 of them had all 4 pistons moving. I managed to regress both those gens back to 0 progress, and kill everyone.
It's all about patience. If gens are about to pop, don't commit to a chase.
Edit: I also forgot to comment on that you're saying there aren't lockers near every gen. Yeah that doesn't matter. If there aren't lockers near the generators, i just let the generator complete. basically, let the survivors do the gens that you know would be harder to defend when there's only 3 gens left on the map. Most of my matches start off with survivors doing 2-3 gens before my first hook, i just make sure they don't do the generators I want to be there for the "endgame". That's when I start killing.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2996440#Comment_2996440
30 second cooldown would throw this killer right into the trash bin, but you realise this yourself.
The idea with charges taking 30 seconds is also too extreme in my opinion. Though to be fair, I do get the idea behind it, being able to teleport up to three times with very low cooldown, but being balanced by the higher downtimes Dredge would sometimes have on his teleport, to force him to go for chases or patrol gens like an M1 killer. But this would nerf him too much in my opinion. 60 seconds with no teleport, just so you can teleport twice again? That would hurt his map pressure way too much. Not to mention that his locker teleport is used for chases as well, to counter holding w. It's one of the aspects that makes his chases so interesting.
Keeping all that in mind, 20 seconds would maybe work, with a base cooldown of 8 or 10 seconds to his teleport in general (you can't make his base teleport, such as his remnant teleport, have too little of a cooldown, or outplaying him with his remnant wouldn't have enough impact), but even that might be a bit much, killers need good map pressure, and he uses his locker teleport for chases as well.
It would also make the part where he can teleport from one locker to the next using his charges completely obsolete, unless those would be affected by other charges? And I doubt the devs would want that.
12 seconds is definitely enough in my opinion. Demogorgon has a 10 second cooldown on his teleport. If you just regress the gen A, and then teleport to gen C, why on earth wouldn't survivors hop back on gen A? Even if survivors are working on gen B, he will have to walk to gen B from where he teleported to near gen C. If a survivor is at gen C, and he kicks it to regress it, a good survivor will just hop back on gen C. Or the Dredge commits to a survivor at gen C, then he won't be able to defend gen B or A. After 12 seconds, he can teleport back to gen A or B, however one also has to take the travel time into consideration. Again, he comes out of the locker, and if he just kicks the gen, to then patrol other gens, any survivor at gen A will just hop back on it.
He will need to put time into chasing survivors, hitting them, and at some point also downing them, picking them up and carrying them to a hook. Survivors will still be able to do gens despite his great map pressure.
And this is also only when gen B is somewhere right between A and C, which is not common. You have to move pretty close to gen B while teleporting to hear if someone is working on it or not, because the teleport sound itself is quite loud. Not to mention that in many cases, gens don't spawn right next to lockers, only close. And survivors can just wait and lock lockers during the late game as well.
I can maybe see BHVR increase the cooldown to 15 or 16 seconds, but that's it. And probably only if the upcoming perk update will add some form of basekit slowdown into the game. But 30 seconds per charge never.
I guess not having to wait for all 3 charges to be recharged would balance this out a bit. But it still seems so overboard, because at some point, dredge will only have one charge, he teleports, and now he has to wait almost 30 seconds to use his teleport again. Or I spend 45 seconds wondering around the map as an M1 killer with no map pressure, just so I don't have to wait so long for my next teleport after I teleport once. It's just way too long. And even though I obviously don't know what BHVR plans, I am pretty sure that they will not nerf his teleport like that. It already goes against the design philosphy of Dredge.
Like why would they want to make their new killer too weak, especially one they obviously put so much effort into? And why wouldn't they not just nerf his remnant teleportation first, to allow survivors for even more counterplay during chases? Or tone down his Nightfall, where he is particularly strong? Map pressure is something that should always be a good part of a killers basekit. Killers without map pressure suffer greatly, unless they have an insane anti-loop power, like Pyramid Head. And even he still has a bit of map pressure in form of not needing to hook survivors, and his immense tunneling potential.
Also, not once have I been caught off guard by a Dredge during Nightfall. You can always hear him from a decent range, and see him. You simply have to pay attention. He also makes a loud noise when exiting a locker, that can be heard within a decent range. So I have absolutely no clue how you were able to get those gen grabs. Since you yourself said you aren't an experienced killer player, and don't play killer a lot, it's very likely your killer mmr is just very low at the moment, too low thanks to your experience with killer as survivor.
Of course you are entitled to your opinion. And you even have said you enjoyed your times against Dredge. But I would advise you to play more and increase your mmr on killer. Again, I am not sure if Dredge might need a cooldown increase to 15 seconds or so, but I think you'll notice that survivors can still get gens done despite his map pressure, if they play well enough.
I am not against nerfs to Dredge, because I can't say for sure if he is perfectly balanced or a tad overtuned, but I am positive Dredge doesn't need any big nerfs, if anything, just very small ones. My favorite idea still being a small time increase when teleporting back to your remnant, so survivors have a bit of mindgame potential when looping Dredge at pallet loops that don't break line of sight.
"why on earth wouldn't survivors hop back on gen A?"
because with Dredge, i know where survivors are and i stick around to regress the gens more than they can work on them. By the time they've moved, I've regressed the previously worked on gen and i'm ready to move on to wherever the survivors went. Like, there's no moment when I don't know where they are when there's 3 gens left because teleporting gives so much information on top of making me move fast.
remember, survivors have to walk to generators too, they're not magically there. So if i always know which gen they're trying to work on and can be there within 12 seconds, they can't do jack #########.
i think you're misunderstanding how you'd play with a 30 second recharge rate on stacks which add up to 3 stacks. You're saying you'd have to wait 60 seconds to teleport twice in a row... yeah that's the dumbest way to possible use that kind of mechanic. The idea here is that you CAN teleport 3 times in quick succession, but obviously if you do so you'll get a longer cooldown afterwards. By the time you've done 3 teleports in a row, you likely almost have another charge again due to time passing since your first teleport.
The idea with is that you save quick teleporting for when it matters, but you won't be able to teleport every 12 seconds for the entirety of the match, which honestly is broken AF.