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Your fears will last less than a week, then people will find Billy and regret their choice to use Object of Immediate Hook. XD
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@Blueberry Are you suggesting 15% debuff basekit + 16% debuff for Tanatophobia?
@DudeDelicious In fact I don't think the Plague is weak: just be smart, run that perk and you'll have the power in your own hands.
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No ideas?
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@Blueberry "I have respect for people who earn respect. Respect isn't something to be given freely." you wrote... Mistaken! Respect is due to every human being, as such. Instead, esteem, affection and friendship must be earned. If everyone could decide to whom to show respect, according to their own arbitrary concept of who "deserves" respect, hostility would spread with serious prejudice for civilization: we have small examples in this forum, where fanatics of both factions fight in an endless toxic war, sometimes insulting in awful manners the developers themselves (some threads about Ghost Face are a very good example of this).
"I just don't think throwing your teammates under the bus by using fountains and then hiding in corners while they suffer the consequences is any evidence of higher "skill"." Which corners are you talking about? When it is unwise to repair the gens or save someone from the hook, I look for totems to cleanse or allies to help; otherwise, I search in the chests: there is not a single moment in which I stand and contemplate the view in a corner. Like me, they too can hide, devoting themselves to secondary objectives. If the killer uses Corrupt Intervention, the survivors simply hide until the Entity frees the gens: not surprisingly, it's a weak perk. They can do the same, waiting for the Corrupt Purge to run out, or make sure to work at the most distant gens. It's not difficult... you said it yourself that "You could run zero perks on survivor and still dominate in red ranks quite easily as survivor. The skill floor is quite low.".
It makes no sense to continue this ideological diatribe: our respective positions are now clear to the community. Bye bye.
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@Blueberry I'm not misunderstanding anything: I'm speaking of the Plague, and I simply don't agree the Broken state is (ALWAYS) THE (BEST) solution against her. I'm not giving lessons: I'm just explaining my experience, my reasons, my doubts about this "Broken doctrine". You, instead, insult people by calling them "potatoes", because they offer a different point of view. Maybe I lack some skill in chases, but you, for sure, lack respect. Aside this, if I survive with what you consider a bad strategy, maybe my overall skill is greater than yours (I reach the same goal with less or worse tools) or, maybe, my stealth strategy is not as bad as you think. And no, I don't survive by sacrificing or letting die my mates: your assumption that "I screw over the rest of my team" is arbitrary.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/514414#Comment_514414
"You said No Mither hinders survivors and Mettle of Man is broken, then you agree an extra health state makes the difference (for example, it gives you an extra loop), so you should agree that playing an entire trial in Broken status against the Plague is a high risk playstyle"
No, you are conflating 2 different things. Just because it isn't as dangerous doesn't mean people are going to literally take a perk to hinder themselves on purpose. Same thing applies to choosing to take Mettle of Man. Also, that was against Plague specifically. You have no idea what killer you are going against ahead of time when picking your perks. You must realize the fallacy in what you are saying here....common...that just sounds stupid. Critically think think through what you are saying here.
"which not all players consider optimal."
Everyone does..except you..who hasn't figured it out yet and continues to screw his team over and play as a potato.
"you must use fountains in dead zones of the map"
Seeing as you've been screwing over your teaming and cleansing all game which forced everyone else to cleanse there will now be multiple fountains, so there is no convenience left of picking the dead zone one.
No fallacy. You assume being Broken all the trial it's the best way to face the Plague, but you have not given any evidence: it's just your opinion. An opinion, not the truth. I think the opposite: an extra health state is almost always useful, because you don't emit grunts of pain, because you don't risk to be seen by the puking-related aura reading add-on, because you remove the penalty of Thanatophobia, because you can keep the killer for an extra loop, while your mates do gens. An extra health state becomes irrelevant in exceptional circumstances, like the infinite EW3, especially if you run Iron Will. The Plague is not such an exceptional case: you can stay Broken, but don't pretend it's the only way to win against her.
"Everyone does.. except you". Who are you to speak on behalf of the whole community? Speak for yourself. I survive against the Plague, and I'm not alone. You have your playstyle, I have mine. Accept it. You are not entitled to give lessons to anybody nor to judge other players' strategies. Good trials, dear @Blueberry .
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/513895#Comment_513895
"Loops are not infinite"
I never said they were.
"If you really believe having one health state more or less it's irrelevant, why don't all people run No Mither?"
Because they don't want to intentionally hinder themselves and the killer still could be playing nurse. That's a stupid question.
"Why do all killers hate Mettle of Man?"
Because it was completely broken and the devs agree hence it being nerfed.
"I'm in red ranks, even without Adrenaline and META builds."
You could run zero perks on survivor and still dominate in red ranks quite easily as survivor. The skill floor is quite low.
"Many playstyles can lead to high ranks."
That's true, but pipping doesn't mean you didn't let your team down or screw them over.
@Blueberry You said No Mither hinders survivors and Mettle of Man is broken, then you agree an extra health state makes the difference (for example, it gives you an extra loop), so you should agree that playing an entire trial in Broken status against the Plague is a high risk playstyle, which not all players consider optimal. She's not fast: you must use fountains in dead zones of the map, where the gens have been repaired and there are no hex totems. You can easily waste her time, while your mates work.
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@Blueberry Loops are not infinite, otherwise the game would be broken: an extra hit means an extra loop, and precious time. If you really believe having one health state more or less it's irrelevant, why don't all people run No Mither? Why do all killers hate Mettle of Man? I'm in red ranks, even without Adrenaline and META builds. Many playstyles can lead to high ranks.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/513601#Comment_513601
It isn't too generic. In almost all cases you should not be cleansing. Like 95% of the time.
It's only seems dogmatic to someone that is ill informed on the game.
"I'm glad you have only certainties in your (virtual) life: "
All we have talked about is choosing to cleanse or not cleanse against a Plague so I don't see how you think that encapsulates "you have only certainties in your (virtual) life". We have literally only talked about this situation.
"I'm not like you, sorry to disappoint you.""
I never said you were and how is that disappointing to me?
Are you done attempting to be a pseudo intellectual and using big words to seem more informed? You do whatever you want, I haven't said you couldn't. I just pointed out why it isn't the most logical choice.
It's not a question of being more or less informed: it's a question of personal and environmental resources. Maybe you are able to keep the Plague busy for 2 minutes of chase even if injured and emitting grunts of pain: I'm not. I prefer to prevent than to engage a chase, if I can: a clever stealth. Moreover, I don't like the gen rush, neither as a killer nor as a survivor. I keep an eye on totems, too: sometimes there is a big surprise, called Devour Hope, seldom NOED. I also like searching for some good loot, with the benevolence of Lady Luck. And sometimes there isn't a good amount of loops or pallets in the map, and it's simply impossible to keep the Plague for a long time with only one health state...
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/513559#Comment_513559
"Fanatic or reasonable?" "Make your choice!"
I already did make my choice as well as all actually competent red rank survivors that know how to play against Plague. It was the "reasonable" choice as it's the most logical one.
"About my choice, when I hear the Corrupt Purge starts, I simply disappear: I go looking for totems, chests, safe rescues, but far from any gen on the map, until the power finishes, or I have the certainty the killer is at the opposite side of the map"
Are you playing at grey ranks or what? This is potato play style. Wasting time like this is how you lose games.
Not to mention you aren't waiting out her Corrupted Purge because now that you cleansed you forced everyone else on the team to as well, meaning she has plenty more fountains to pick it right back up.
"Try it: it's not as bad as you think, especially when you play as a solo..."
Me and all the other red ranks have, plenty. Cleansing is the the worst choice you can make and is not a smart one.
@Blueberry Rank 3, and sometimes I survive, sometimes I die, against the Plague and against any other killer. Your statement "Cleansing is the the worst choice you can make and is not a smart one." is too generic: you forget to consider the map, the number of the gens to repair or of the available pallets, the situation of the team, the perk build of every player, the killer's add-ons, the playstyle of the people playing that trial in that time and in that way... too dogmatic for my taste. I'm glad you have only certainties in your (virtual) life: I'm not like you, sorry to disappoint you.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/513288#Comment_513288
You are literally that teammate that screws everyone else over by cleansing and costs them the game.
@Blueberry My dear, are you another fanatic, who thinks his strategy is the only valid and acceptable, or are you a reasonable human being, who has his own ideas without pretending they are the absolute and eternal truth? Fanatic or reasonable? Make your choice! About my choice, when I hear the Corrupt Purge starts, I simply disappear: I go looking for totems, chests, safe rescues, but far from any gen on the map, until the power finishes, or I have the certainty the killer is at the opposite side of the map. Try it: it's not as bad as you think, especially when you play as a solo...
@Tzeentchling9 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/513367#Comment_513367
Exactly, once one clown cleanses, then everyone is forced to cleanse unless they want to face Corrupt Purge while broken.
Then the Plague has her pick of fountains and starts snowballing the way she is designed to.
@Tzeentchling9 Thanks for confirming your fanaticism: whoever has a different strategy about the Plague is a "clown", of course. Try replying to the post immediately before that I quoted, if you believe in a constructive dialogue; otherwise, good bye and GG.
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@Tzeentchling9 said:
There sure are a lot of fanatics on these forums then. LOL
The OP never said a single thing about SWF. Literally everything the OP mentioned can be done by any Survivor.
Do not try to derail the chain of answers.
The OP wrote: "Both the Plague and Ghost face have been SEVERELY limited by having a majority of their powers put into the hands of the survivors. Their decisions limit entire aspects of the powers.", and some users added that the optimal playstyle is to never use fountains, to deprive the Plague of the Corrupt Purge. The message is clear: if the survivors refuse to use the fountains, the Plague cannot access an important part of her power. True. But how often does it happen? Maybe it's the rule when dealing with a perfectly coordinated full team, which prefers the state of Broken throughout the game. But full teams are a small percentage (according to official statistics): those who play alone or in pairs cannot risk so much, and often disinfect themselves by using the fountains, so the idea that the Plague is severely limited is wrong, because it arbitrarily extends the content of limited experiences to all cases.
In fact, I replied: "This thread is fundamentally polluted by an excess of emotion: many take their bad experiences with powerful and toxic SWF, and unduly raise that experience as a general rule. For example, I'm currently in rank 3, and when I meet the Plague, I never see all the survivors happily infected for the whole game."
And you replied: "This is what we call a Red Herring.", suggesting that my statement is false. Very arrogant in thinking that all those who report different experiences are in bad faith...
Hence my final answer: "Whoever believes he has the truth in his pocket and speaks dogmatically is a fanatic. I always use the fountains when I meet the Plague: I have no desire to have No Mither without even the hope of recovering from the dying state. And many think like me."
Do you doubt that I use the fountains? Do you doubt that I've seen other survivors using the fountains? Based on what do you dispute my statement?
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@Tzeentchling9 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/513244#Comment_513244
This is what we call a Red Herring.
Whoever believes he has the truth in his pocket and speaks dogmatically is a fanatic. I always use the fountains when I meet the Plague: I have no desire to have No Mither without even the hope of recovering from the dying state. And many think like me.
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This thread is fundamentally polluted by an excess of emotion: many take their bad experiences with powerful and toxic SWF, and unduly raise that experience as a general rule. For example, I'm currently in rank 3, and when I meet the Plague, I never see all the survivors happily infected for the whole game.
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I desire a long, thrilling trial, a kind of horror adventure. The result is a secondary target: I want powerful emotions.
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@Peanits said:
If you're referring to the issue where moving at an angle with an analog stick would move you slightly slower than the normal movement speed, that was indeed fixed in update 2.7.1. Now it doesn't matter where the stick is, as long as it's jammed over as far as it can go, you'll be moving the highest possible speed.
@Peanits I fear that bug has not completely disappeared...
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I'm curious to read the answer.
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Yeah, I don't understand why a newer engine should give worse graphics. :(
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They should unlock advanced graphical settings, and everybody will be able to choose. I don't like the new blurred vision, from the 2.6.0 patch.
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@Well_Placed_HexTotem Your point is this: the killer prevented the fifth gen to be repaired, killed three survivors, closed the hatch, then they deserve 4k. Choose one of the following: 1) the closing of the hatch sacrifices the last survivor; 2) the closing of the hatch powers the gates. If you want the first, be bold and admit it. The idea of the EGC is that the last survivor can escape: it must be difficult, of course, but not impossible. A killer who can patrol two gates by standing still is as wrong as a survivor who spawns in front of Ruin: just a bad mechanic. Bad because the EGC, in theory, allows the last survivor to escape, if they are very clever and skilled, but, in practice, the gates' location makes it impossible, i.e. 2 useless minutes for both sides.
@Peanits Do you think a Nurse should be able to patrol both gates just rotating her body left and right?
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@DemonDaddy Yes, the gates can be seen by both sides from the beginning of the trial, but the purpose of having two gates with only one killer is that they cannot patrol both of them at the same time: everybody can have their own ideas about the minimum and maximum distance between gates, of course, but the killer's ability to patrol both of them standing still, or moving for a very few meters, is against the design and the logic of having two gates, instead of only one.
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@DemonDaddy You believe in randomness, even about two gates patrolled from the same position, so do you accept sometimes Ruin spawns in front of a survivor and sometimes it lasts long minutes or do you think a hex totem next to a survivor is a bad mechanic? My answer is the second: no hex totems destroyed in a few seconds, it's unfair.
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@Brady I wrote my suggestion just to give some help, my contribution: that's the role of every user, and of the whole community. They will read it and evaluate what to do. :)
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@DemonDaddy The issue is with the last survivor: I explained it in the post immediately before yours. :)
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@Jacoby2041 You speak without knowledge of the specific trial. A killer who can patrol two gates by standing still is as wrong as a survivor who spawns in front of Ruin: just a bad mechanic. The meaning of having two gates, instead of one, and seven gens, instead of five, is to prevent a killer from having the certainty of the victory: no side has the right to win, but both sides deserve fair opportunities to win. The last survivor must be clever to open a gate during the EGC, must be skilled and wise, but even a champion cannot win if the killer sees both the switches from the same position.
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Ironworks of Misery: a Nurse could patrol both gates by standind still and rotating her body. That's disgustingly unfair, unacceptable.
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@PolarBear How could a key interact with a lock, if not opening it? O.o I'm just tired of wasting Pharmacy or Ace in the Hole, because there are no chests left, and I refuse the idea a perk should depend on specific offerings (coins). These perks must be made more appealing.
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@Brady I believe in @not_Queen @Patricia @Peanits @Shelby and the other Devs: I see they work with passion, they pay attention to our feedback, they desire to make DbD last and be appreciated by an increasing playerbase for a very long time. I do my best to report issues and write fair and nice posts. Be constructive, give your good contribution...
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@Carpo Not the power, just the picture. XD
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@LastShoe A reward often ignored. It's difficult to change the META, to convince people to abandon their comfort zones. I hope my reform will be implemented SOON, to reward those who don't like gen rushing.
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@not_Queen @Patricia @Peanits @Shelby The community is supporting this reform with unanimous enthusiasm: please, give us the opportunity to experiment, to help you develop the game with this permanent laboratory of original mechanics: we could give you targeted and detailed feedback, make months of tests on the most outlandish ideas, and leave to your wise analysis only those supported by a broad consensus and long checks. It would be a great alliance between players and developers, for the glory of our beloved Dead by Daylight! :D Is there any real hope that this piece will fit into the fourth year roadmap, under the "Game Health" category?
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Other ideas?
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@not_Queen @Patricia @Peanits @Shelby Any hope to see this little QoL adjustment in the 2.8.0 patch? Just change a number: 4 chests per map by default, instead of 3, like you have already done in the Temple of Purgation. :)
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@ReikoMori I don't think so... Which maps have you checked so far?
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It seems to me the Temple of Purgation already has four chests by default: it would be great to extend that rule to all the maps. :)
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Classic Freddy and New Freddy. :)
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I fully agree: there is no reason to destroy the old Freddy, to deprive those who like him the enjoyment of playing with him. Two Freddys are better than one. :)
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@invira_zero @SmokePotion @Milo @PolarBear The Dance with Me + Lithe combination would not be affected by the cooldown changes of Dance with Me, because Lithe does not recharge during the chase: the pair works for the first jump of the chase, after which Lithe will not work for the whole chase time, regardless of whether the cooldown of Dance with Me is 20, 30 or 40 seconds.
Instead, in the combination Dance with Me + Quick & Quiet the cooldown of Dance with Me is decisive, because it is greater. One hides the scratches, the other hides the noise: it's a small thing to spend two perk slots (imagine you're in Shelton Woods or Rotten Fields ...), but stealth lovers might find it interesting. I honestly don't understand the opposition to the buff of weak perks: I'm not proposing to reinforce Adrenaline. If these perks remain junk, there is no hope that anyone will be tempted to abandon the META, and the perks that give a second chance.
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@PolarBear A cooldown of 40 seconds is justified for Exhaustion perks, which give you powerful sprints to break a chase. A perk which simply hides some info is much less powerful and deserves a smaller cooldown, or no one (think about Iron Will, that permanently hides your grunts of pain when injured). If you leave that cooldown, Dance with Me will be forgotten forever: not worthy of a perk slot.
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@slipttees That would be a good Wake Up buff.
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@SasukeKun Resilience gives you infinite faster vaults if you are injured; my WoO only gives you Auras, with no cool-down, and a faster vault every 60/50/40 seconds in a Chase.
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Other opinions? :)
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@CallMeSpidey Have you read the OP until the very end?
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@Orion @Scgamecock86 @TheBean @George_Soros @GodDamn_Angela @tt_ivi_99 @Kanzaki @fluffybunny @Visionmaker @ABannedCat @lasombra1979 @Blueberry @TreemanXD @TheGameZpro3 @slingshotsurvivor @DemonDaddy @frozen_in_shadow @CrtKazz Please don't make me a list of remedies or strategies to play alone: that's not the point, I'm not looking for advice. The point is fairness. A written exam in a foreign language can be taken with or without a dictionary, but it is not permissible for some candidates to have a dictionary and others to be without them: not only the candidates with the dictionary enjoy an unfair advantage, but the examining commission cannot even prepare a test of the right difficulty.
@not_Queen @Patricia @Peanits @Shelby Any hope to have some info about this topic during the LONG™ livestream? :)
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Great! I love it. If every survivor were more than a simple figurine, the game would gain in aesthetic and tactical variety, because there would finally be a good reason to abandon the usual Claudette-Meg-Nea stereotype...
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@Peanits You cannot have everything: every choice implies reasonable renunciations. Trading two add-on slots for a perk slot and using Ace in the Hole is essentially silly, no less than combining No Mither and Selfcare.
Specifically, if this odd choice happened, I imagine two options:
1) the survivor gets the item with one or two add-ons, but these are frozen: he cannot benefit from them or take them to the campfire if he survives, but if he leaves the object or loses it because of Franklin, another survivor will enjoy full of the loot. In this case, those who use Ace in the Hole would be treasure hunters for the team, without being able to take advantage of it personally;
2) if the first option is too difficult to program, simply your search in the chest will fail: you will find the item without add-ons, and in the next game you will remember to avoid idiotic matches.
The survivor will almost certainly want a fifth perk, while the killers are versatile: some would like a fifth perk, others would gain more power from a third add-on. There will certainly be some unbalanced cases, but, I mean, if a Spirit with MDR and PB is today allowed to equip an Ebany Mori for free, I don't think it's a tragedy to allow her to have a third add-on at the cost of a perk, indeed I find it definitely more balanced. Moreover, you cannot have ultra-powerful add-ons every game: maybe you will keep them for use against a full team of first rank survivors.
What do you think about it? Don't you think we could try it?
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@DocOctober It's very curious that you fear survivors would be too strong with a 5th perk, while @thesuicidefox is sure a killer with 3 add-ons would be unrelenting. Maybe the truth is in the middle: both sides earn power and a new balance appears... 5 perks vs 3 add-ons: I'd like to test it, it's amazing!
@MJ_Out Read above, please.
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@NuclearBurrito No, you cannot gain 2 extra add-ons by sacrificing 2 perks: too powerful. I wrote it in the OP.
@thesuicidefox You cannot see the scratch marks with the Ring: when you phase to my gen, I run away before you reach me, then you have to wait 15 seconds to recharge your power. DCB doesn't add any relevant power, and today you can combine MDR, PB, Stridor and Ruin, if you want. Of course, you ignore I have Spine Chill. I accept to lose, if it happens: can you accept new mechanics in this game?
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@thesuicidefox I call your Prayer Beads Braclet + Mother Daughter Ring + Dried Cherry Blossom and raise with Spine Chill + Sprint Burst: bye bye Rin's ambushes... The Dried Cherry Blossom is not as powerful as the other two add-ons, in my opinion.
About Iridescent Head, Infantry Belt and Flower Babushka, no killer can harm you if they don't see you: be stealthy, be happy.
@Chad_Kensington No stackable barters: two add-ons for one perk or one perk for one add-on.
@ABannedCat Even the Nurse can be avoided with a stealthy gameplay: just adapt, or lose.
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@Milo 1. Anyone who has renounced, for a given game, two add-on slots to enjoy an extra perk will in no way be able to use or take any add-ons with them to the campfire: if they were to collect an item with add-ons on the ground, these will be present, but without effects. The other players, collecting the same object with "frozen" add-ons, can benefit normally.
2. The survivors play well even without add-ons, so they have to sacrifice two slots to get one more perk. The killers, on the other hand, gain enormous powers from a good combination of add-ons, so the exchange rate is downsized: the sacrifice of a perk entitles you to only one extra add-on. Nothing prevents the survivors from sacrificing a perk for an additional add-on or the killer from giving up two add-ons for a perk bonus, but I imagine it will happen rarely.