Eelanos
Eelanos
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767530#Comment_3767530
When it comes to solo queue, I actually find the 2v8 mode to be much more fun than 1v4 for survivor. Which is odd because I thought it would be really unfun for survivor.
Killers can't camp you, if they tunnel you it's just because you were unlucky or careless, it's hard for them to do obnoxious playstyles which are prevalent in the 1v4 mode like hit & run. There's no gen regression or blocking constantly interfering with your gen progress. No busted add-ons. It's hard for the killers to slug all the survivors to death due to there being so many. Don't need to worry about 3gens due to there being so many generators.
You also don't have to groan and roll your eyes when a survivor gets on a generator with you because it's costing the team efficiency (unless there's 1 gen left, of course). There's so many survivors spread out that working on different gens is impossible anyway.
The 2v8 mode solved every pain point that the game has which usually makes solo queue survivor unfun for me. I would gladly play more 2v8 survivor if I could pip from it.
I was talking more about powers like becoming invisible, placing traps, teleporting around vs watch progress bar go up slightly faster or run fast for 3 seconds.
I think zooming around the map permanently and whacking a survivor that got caught on your buddy's trap is way more fun than the ability to heal a caged survivor a little bit faster and then essentially playing perkless.
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I feel this should have been fairly predictable. The only thing keeping the killers' queue in check is the survivors' ability to play with friends. You allow people to play a character with super powers with your friends and suddenly no one wants to play the hopeless survivor sitting on a gen for several minutes waiting for their inevitable demise, whose's only power is making progress bars move slightly faster.
This just goes to show that playing survivor isn't really that fun.
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@Moonras2 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767106#Comment_3767106
I think those percentages are probably exactly how they need to be. If behavior is shooting for a 40% escape rate to go along with the horror theme of the game, then that seems fine for new to average players. Many of them are probably still experiencing that aspect of the game.
A higher escape rate at high MMR makes sense to me. Most of those people are well past the horror part of the game. A 50/50 balance at that level would be where I think it should be.
This is just my opinion of course.
"A higher escape rate at high MMR makes sense to me."
Both 39% and 48% are official numbers for high MMR escape rate. Solo survivor, regardless of skill level, peaks at 40%. Premades have so many advantages over solo that even exclusively comparing the highest level of play they are almost 10% more likely to escape than the most professional soloq player.
To put this into perspective, the patch that pretty much absolutely decimated soloq and threw survivor play into disarray for several months, 6.1.0, "only" raised kill rates by about a 5%.
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I don't think people realize the huge difference a 5% can make. In most other games I play, a 5% difference is the difference between trash and midtier characters, and between mid and godtier. Heck, people in this very forum had a mental breakdown over a 3% speed increase.
We're acting in this thread like the difference between 39% and 48% escape rate doesn't deserve getting addressed. Like, yeah, it might be a difficult problem to tackle, and obviously the people casually enjoying the perks of playing 4-man will get annoyed if we tried, but it is very much a huge balancing issue whether you like it or not.
People always say "But why would you punish people for playing with friends!!", but as it stands, the game punishes people for playing by themselves. It's a constant stream of balancing patches directed entirely either to high rank players or premades, while soloq gets worse and worse each patch. And yet, soloq players cannot tell others "I'm being camped!", "The killer is at shack!" or "The killer is trying to 3-gen!", a gameplay advantage that premades of all types have (casual premades included) and that unavoidably helps them getting an edge over soloq, no matter if they're using professional map callouts or singing I Want It That Way the rest of the time.
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@Blueberry said:
Do you feel survivor has a ton of issues that need addressing but aren’t? I mean survivor basically just has the tunneling issue and matchmaking problems. Bad matchmaking is a current necessary evil as it covers up the games balance problems. Both sides have tons of bad perks. So really tunneling is about it.
There's still stuff like hard slugging. Killers can have a rough idea of what the survivors are gonna play like just checking their items, but survivors have no clue what they're gonna face until the killer's plan is already in motion.
The fact that you won't have the tools to counter a hard slug scenario if you don't bring a full anti-slug build to every single match in the off-chance that you face that one-match-every-4-days that has a killer dedicated to end the game by not hooking anyone and just bleeding them to death is ridiculous.
You won't know it's happening until the second slug, and by that point resetting would be a miracle. If one of the two remaining survivors gets into a chase, forget about the game progressing. You're gonna be playing catch up until the entire team inevitably bleeds out to death.
There's also NOED spawning next to hooks, making it impossible to make an end game save. Which sounds fair when there's still 4 players, but is kinda awful when there's only 2 or 3 remaining.
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I want the green key gone. Period. There should be a brown key with 0 tracking capabilities that can open the hatch at the very least.
The charge system for these items should be different. As in, you click the button and you instantly lose 4 charges without having to keep pressing the button, but the aura effect lingers for 4 seconds. For the maps with the bead, this means pressing the Item button again would make a marker wherever the center of your camera is pointing, not on your feet.
Lower rarity maps have lower tracking range but they track everything. Map add-ons could let you start with stuff already tracked, and they could even add high rarity ones like highlighting regressing gens, scourge hooks or hex totems.
Lower the rarity of maps and keys. Make them more readily available. They keep nerfing and reworking medkits and gen repair when they could be buffing other items instead for the same or even better results.
There's so much they could be doing to make keys and maps more interesting. Imagine an iri add-on that allows your key to be consumed to open a secret passage on a locker that allows you to go to an underground tunnel like the Alien and you have, like, 10 seconds to find your way to another locker and leave or you get pushed out of the closest locker screaming and giving the killer Killer Instinct over you.
But instead, we have a green rarity broken key. Fun.
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Am I the only one that's happy we got a search bar? Especially for survivors. One scroll and suddenly I skipped the character I was looking for to do my daily.
I haven't had issues with killers as they all tend to look way different, but looking for a specific survivor is like playing Where's Waldo sometimes.
Also, this probably means I'll be able to sort them by prestige, meaning it'll be easier for me to level P0 characters and easier to find my favourites (which tend to be significantly higher in prestige than the others.
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There's a bit of a flawed logic when people talk about soloq and matchmaking, where usually people say "Well, if your team mates are bad, then it's normal you lose".
No. That's… that's the entire point of matchmaking. Avoiding those specific situations.
Why are 10h survivors getting paired with 1000h ones? Why are there no killers bad enough that the low rank winrate stabilizes? If matchmaking and game balance are working correctly, then awful survivors would be paired with awful killers and the escape rate would be generally the same as high level escape rate. As survivors win games, they'd face harder killers, die, then drop back down and win a couple extra games. That's just how videogames with matchmaking work.
Then how come it feels like sometimes there's an absolute bottom that is impossible to escape? Why is soloq in such a sorry state that there's a point that no killer seems to be bad enough to match with them?
There's something innately wrong with this game. The survivor skill floor is through the roof, requiring hours upon hours of studying and learning to perform at least at an acceptable level, while the killer skill floor seems to be in the negatives, where the success of the role seems to entirely rely on whether you know how to press W and click at the same time.
I honestly feel something should be done with low level players. It's not an easy problem to solve, but the barrier of entry for survivor players is ridiculously high. Add to that the fact that as long as you're not in a 4-man you have the very real risk of having a random light years away from the median skill level of the other players, and the entire non-fullSWF experience is just terrible for all involved.
This is the game's fault. No game with matchmaking should have matches as imbalanced as these.
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I honestly would rather push up the active time rather than push down the cooldown. Whenever I use Dragon's Grip, I mostly feel like I get no value because the active time on the gen (not the debuff duration) is too short anyway.
Another interesting way to only nerf the best case scenarios is keeping the buffed cooldown but extending the cooldown 20/30 seconds only after it gets triggered by someone. That way is easier to use and you can reapply it constantly but you'd take longer to reapply it after getting value from it.
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@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744670#Comment_3744670
If your build is built around aura reading, one single perk actually just makes you perkless. What killer perk can do the same with whole survivor builds?
One of the things I hate when I play survivor is going with a healing build and facing either a Legion or a Plague. Two killers that disable entire healing builds without having to slot perks or add-ons for it, something that survivors cannot do without sacrificing perk slots.
There you go. I hope that helps. 👍
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The Skull Merchant could be on the other side of the map and her presence would be felt across the map just by checking the map and seeing anywhere between 40 and 70% of it disabled because of the drones.
Also, Skull Merchant's power forces people to crouch constantly which I believe all of us should know by now is a triggering action for people.
Vecna, besides his Mage Hand, doesn't feel near as oppresive and disruptive. All his powers have lengthy cooldowns and very specific ranges and travel time. It feels you only have to deal with his specific powers at specific times and then you can continue to make some progress until the next cooldown. And unlike Skull Merchant, you feel like you can be efficent while someone else is in chase, instead of having to Urban Evasion throughout the map without her even lifting a finger while someone is fighting for their life.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739873#Comment_3739873
Ah yes the most fun part of the gameplay loop finding where survivors are by wandering around the map at 4.6m/s. Other than the fact that 9 times out of 10 they have no where near the amount of time to support that kind of playstyle.
"why cant I just kill, no find, only kill. press button, happy chemicals go vroooom"
Boy, you have 7 generators to check at the start of the match and they get reduced to 3 throughout the match. You have a perk specifically to know exactly where survivors start, another to know exactly where to go after hooking someone and another one to reveal everyone after opening a locker just in case a survivor outplayed your aura reading and you no longer know where to go. At this point, the game is playing itself. Finding someone is 50% of your job, just like sitting in front of a gen without blinking for several minutes is the survivors' "engaging gameplay" - gameplay that makes your job easy by reducing the number of places you have to search.
Honestly, do you even like the game.
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@legiondoctor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739497#Comment_3739497
I know im gonna get made fun of but i get the most sweatest matches. I bring perks that are meme and fun and i get a 30 second match cause i get gen rushed by really strong toolboxes
Not only is this not happening, but it's actually the other way around.
I've decided to play survivor during the event and one or two killers are ready to farm and meme, but the rest are using the strongest perks and add-ons with full intention of tunneling people instantly while survivors are blissfully unaware of what's going on and are running around picking up invites and cleansing totems or opening chests.
I literally just finished a game where the killer slugged and tunneled everyone they could. We left with barely 15k while they got 71k points.
Killers are ruining the event.
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game that normally consisting of a series of short minigames
Monopoly and Fortune Street are party games and they don't provide a "series of short minigames".
They can be played competitively as well - they're not mutually exclusive.
And even if it were, people would not throw such a fit about winning/losing or how other people play a game
People do throw fits about party games. I literally forced one of my friends' defeat by losing against another losing friend and making him win. To this day, my friend doesn't want to play Fortune Street with me anymore because he knows I'm capable of ruining my own score to mess him up.
DBD is not a Party Game, but it's not a super serious competitive game
either, it's within a middle area between the two in which aspects of
either can co-exist and should co-exist without either being deemed as
problematic.Again, "Party" and "Competitive" aren't mutually exclusive. DBD is not exploring some new, previously undiscovered middle ground. Party games can be competitive, and in fact, they frequently are.
People even agree to house rules to "balance" the game, because as much as a game can be competitive, it doesn't mean it will be balanced. This is similar to the "survivor rulebook" that people preach about every once and again in this game: Just because the game allows tunneling, camping and slugging doesn't mean people think that's a fun mechanic from the game. Some people agree, some people disagree. Just like some people agree that you can stack +4 cards in UNO and some people disagree because the rules technically don't allow that.
The differences between this game and a party game are slim. Just because the game has a more dark and gory atmosphere doesn't mean it can't be a party game. And having a semblance of a competitive aspect to it doesn't make it any more different to any other party game.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
do you know how long it takes to regress a gen from 90% to 0? 324 seconds. soloq can optimize gens. the big issue for soloq in term of gens is that looping away from teammates. there is no information for where to loop as survivor. bring killer to gens = poor gen efficiency.
adding more gens ends up nerfing killer gen regression because pain res hitting a 65 charge gen is less total progress being regressed then 90 charge gen. Kick gen regression perk become even more worthless because you can't kick anything the gen is completed. the fastest an action is, the less time and odds the killer has to interrupt it.
Surge is only AoE regression perk that might be slightly better but again, 8% of 65 is worse then 90.
Frankly if your letting gens regress from 90%→0, It is not soloq problem. it is skill issue.
Yeah, this is kinda the same~ish reaction I got last time, although a bit more passionate than the last one, so to speak.
I feel you guys are taking this one change in a vacuum. As I said, the idea is to simultaneously nerf regression and progression perks, incentivize movement (more time looking for gens, more chances to cross the killer and less efficent gen builds), and prevent gens popping in two quick waves.
With less time needed to secure gens, gen rush builds can safely be nerfed, considering they're less needed to secure generator completions. And gen rush builds are not as frequently found in solo queue, so this would hit SWF more than solo play.
It'd take longer for premades to finish all gens, while solo would have roughly the same completion time, considering what you find more frequently is only one player doing gens at any given time, rather than perfectly spread out teams tackling gens in waves.
Plus, there's a bunch of perk combos that are more used for their utility than for their regression amount. Anything that reveals survivors, makes them scream, exposes them or locks generators, for example, would still essentially work the same, so the meta could shift more towards those instead of "Which regression perk has the biggest regression % of all of them".
Essentially, I think this change would soften edge cases a bit: On the side of solos, it reduces the feeling of having made no progress. And on the side of killers vs squads, the feeling of losing a game in barely a couple of minutes for one bad chase or one bad decision.
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The skill expression being easier than other killers doesn't disprove that skill expression
existing.
I feel like this is a very weak defense, though?
We could have a killer that goes through walls at light speed and instantly sacrifices survivors on touch and you could still argue there's some semblance of skill expression in its kit by needing to know where survivors are and being able to quickly analyze at a glance what you're seeing at such a high speed so you can distinguish players from props in that quick blur of speed. It doesn't change the fact that there's not enough nuance when you can just ping-pong your character from map edge to map edge in hopes that you get a free kill.
Hardly ever you'd see something with literal 0 skill expression. That doesn't change the fact that Skull Merchant's kit does a lot of the heavy lifting for her.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
The Dispelling Sphere can reveal you inside a locker (which is intentional, lockers do not block killer instinct), however you are not supposed to scream inside of lockers.
So basically, yes it's a bug, but also the killer would've found you anyway.
I still haven't bought the chapter, so I haven't had the chance to play as him. I'm still not 100% sure how he works.
Hm… if it's killer instinct instead of aura reveal, then that's either a very odd but intended exception or a very low priority bug.
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So, we already nerfed, what? Vault speed builds, running builds, boon builds, gen speed builds, self-heal builds, end game builds… what else am I missing? And we now also want to nerf the one counter to the billion aura reading effects killers have?
What if, instead of nerfing the one perk that is useless if the killer doesn't bring aura reading, we normalize killers actually needing to put an effort into playing the game? Or would it be too much to ask for killers to not have cross-map wall hacks for the sole reason of spawning in with one perk?
God, ever since I started playing killer more often because survivor was unplayable I can't stand coming to the forums. You guys would rather change the entire game in your favour than actually getting good at it.
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@SunaIIanu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726425#Comment_3726425
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/42WT63DJ10FX/image.png
They did a few months ago, and the difference ist not that big (excluding high mmr 4man SWFs)
You guys seriously underestimate what a 3% in thousands upon thousands of matches is.
Keep in mind soloq has been hell since they upped the kill rate about a 5%.
The difference between 40 and 43% is noticeable. The difference between 40 and 48% is massive.
I honestly believe they should have trimmed the escape rate at the high end instead of overall. 45%e-55%k was a good split if they wanted to preserve the "power role" thing.
What the game needed was putting premades back in line, not pushing solo alongside them to a miserable 40% escape rate. Soloq is cannon fodder to give the illusion of balance because otherwise premades sit at 50% escape rate and we can't have that.
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@Cryopier said:
If words do you harm in a video game, you probably need to see a psychiatrist. Godspeed.
Oh, no, no. It's actually the other way around.
See, I'm no psychiatrist, but one of my friends does study psychology. And if what I understood of what little he has told me is correct (and I'm able to translate and express it clearly in English), the inability to express an emotional reaction is closer to needing some serious therapy than if someone throws a verbal attack at you and it makes you feel bad.
So, if someone throws an attack at you online, as social creatures that we are, common reactions are usually things like frustration, defusal (as in, trying to make the situation stop, even if the attack fails to hit you) or… I don't know the word in English, but it's kind of like "counter offensive", as in, you attack them back to protect yourself or others from further harm.
Frustration and counter offensives are unhealthy and can cause harmful outbursts to self and others when left unchecked, but they are still natural reactions. These should be understood and controlled so they lead to healthier outputs (like defusal) for a more harmonious coexistence with your fellow peers.
However, if any attack, online or not, is met with absolute indifference, it's recommended to seek professional help because there can be a number of issues repressing the person's feelings (not necessarily illnesses, it could be social elements like an unhealthy parental figure inserting into their children the idea that feeling frustration or sadness equates to weakness)
Don't take this as professional advice because I'm merely writing in my words, and translated into English, what someone else said off the top of my head and applying it to an online environment, but that is the rough idea of what I understood. I'm sure there's some books in English that can delve deeper into this, and there's always the option of finding a professional opinion on the matter, but the idea should be roughly the same.
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It's just weird to me that in other games when the enemy is not taking the chance to close the game and take the win you have a chance for a comeback, but for some reason in this game if the killer wants to just wander off to find the hatch or teabag for the entire bleedout timer they kind of… can? And there's nothing you can do about it? Not even a surrender to finish the match and leave with your dignity. And some players are okay with it, which is baffling to me.
Like, I got teabagged by a Ghostface for the entirety of my bleedout timer, grabbed me at the last tick, hooked me, AND THEN apologized (with an xD, of course) in the end game chat. I just had to sit there until the timer ran out and people really defend that as being peak gameplay or something.
Or when killers wander off and I crawl away then they realize they lost me and have to wait for the entire timer and then I'm the one getting blamed for wasting people's time. Bud just left to close the hatch and break a couple of pallets and people agree I'm the bad guy in this situation? Surely the killers should be the ones doing their job instead of letting me bleed out for a couple extra points?
Why am I not allowed to keep fighting when my oponent gets cocky? I shouldn't be the one getting punished because the enemy doesn't feel like closing the game.
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The only times I ever do it is because I either can't see some of the other survivors and I linger there for a bit in case I need to go back in to rescue them, or the odd case where I want to give killers a couple extra blood points because they're already there in front of the gate anyways.
But for the most part is because of the first one. I don't want other survivors screaming at me "WHY DID YOU LEAVE??????" because I thought we all were safe.
Quick edit: I never teabag if the killer doesn't deserve it. You'll hardly ever see me teabag a killer, not even when they're trying hard to win. If you ever see me rapidly teabag at the gates, the killer just failed to live their kinky sadistic fantasy and I feel they pretty much deserve it.
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@Dreamnomad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718590#Comment_3718590
Lol, jaded much? The funny part is there is the tiniest shred of truth to what you are saying but it's 99% hyperbole.
Well, yeah, I'm being hyperbolic. I didn't expect anyone to take the sentence "Self destruct to add 1% progress to completed generators" at face value, and as much as new killers' popularity vanishes within the first week, they don't exactly "never show up again".
But it's not like I'm lying. We just got a perk that removes 3 health states for 10% gen progress while having a 1 minute cast time while on the basement, and we haven't had a single killer that stuck around after their release since Wesker.
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I like it because I don't like elves anyway.
Ideally, there would be cosmetics to change which class your character resembles and even choices for other races.
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Probably not. The few times I've ran sabotage builds (mostly for tomes and dailies) it ended up amounting to nothing because there's two hooks to the right and left of the one I sabotaged, and the killer decided to tunnel me soon after because they took it personally.
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Classic case of premades using it to bully killers and ruining the perk for everyone else in the process.
DS is terrible however you look at it, but have it be mildly annoying and give it to a premade group of 4 and suddenly it's the worst thing you've ever faced against.
It has very easy counters like not tunneling and slugging people trying to force it to trigger, but because it can be used for already-ahead teams to bully killers, it has to be hands down the worst perk in existence or playing against one of these teams would be depressing and frustrating.
Buff it exclusively for solo-q and the premades will start screaming that they're being punished for playing with friends.
No winning scenario except just letting the perk be trash.
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Personally, I've stopped caring about chapters a long ago, with the exception of the Alien chapter.
What usually happens is, survivors get one new survivor that either gets immediately forgotten by the devs or becomes incredibly successful because it's either shirtless or has a swimsuit cosmetic, and they come with perks that essentially boil down to "Self destruct to add a 1% progress to all completed generators".
And when it comes to killer, it's going to be all the rage for a week, then survivors will figure out a strategy against them, this killer will start to slug and tunnel and soon after it'll never show up again. A month later we'll see a thread asking what happened to the killer's popularity and several others asking for ridiculous buffs that would propel the killer to SS tier if they were implemented as-is. A year later, the devs will release a buff to the killer's kicking speed - something like 1%, and remove that 1% extra kicking speed from their add-ons.
And this repeats. Every. Single. Chapter.
I like D&D but I can't get hyped for content for this game anymore. I still need to buy a few of the newest chapters but I just can't be bothered.
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Since 6.1.0 the game has gone awfully bad balance wise. That patch was the one that brought people dcing and suiciding every match because killers would just decimate entire soloq teams with no effort whatsoever.
Now that the escape rate is 40% for survivors, the game feels like there's no hope for a comeback. You either feel the game is going to be winnable and keep at it or you notice someone getting hooked in the first 30 seconds thanks to Lethal Pursuer and understand that you're not winning that match.
The moment one person is on the hook, that's gonna be two people off gens for a good bit, and in the process, the most likely event is that another player is going to be in chase. You alone are not going to do 5 gens while everyone else resets.
I keep telling people this is the only game that considers a 40% win rate acceptable, and they keep bringing me the most obtuse excel sheets with the most weird data in the universe to justify that "40% escape rate is 60% win rate for survivors, actually". Every other game, asymetrical or not, considers anything lower than a 45%~ish win rate underpower and anything above 55%~ish overpowered. Anything below 45% win rate is considered trash tier.
There is a reason people are giving up in masses, and why some of us, like myself, moved to play more and more killer as time went by. This is not "Survivors are awful human beings and massive crybabies", this is just "the game is exhausting to play as survivor for little to no reward whatsoever".
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Larger maps are healthier for the game, but fixing the issues that larger maps had required an effort that the devs did not want to put.
And this is not about pallet number or whatever. Maps need clutter that blocks people's view of the map from side to side. If you're able to check the 2 gates in a map at a glance, the map is badly designed.
A higher number of gens with lower repair time would also be better. (Think 7 gens of 65 seconds instead of 5 gens of 90).
The game needs to promote movement. You should not be able to win by standing still for long periods of time, and this goes for either side. Survivors need to take the risk of moving to find a gen, and killers should move to find survivors - and this includes moving to check on gates.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711000#Comment_3711000
Because being skilled can prevent those gen perks from activating. Being skilled on killer doesn't prevent Distortion from blocking the aura perks.
You can be skilled on killer and not need those aura perks, but being skilled enough to need them is not the same as being skilled enough to counter the perk itself. Those are two very different things.
Like I generally never run aura perks because as we're talking about, you can become skilled enough to where they seem redundant as you have good situational awareness to generally know where survivors are. But the point is turning perks off, not being skilled enough to not need them.
Because being skilled can prevent those gen perks from activating. Being skilled on killer doesn't prevent Distortion from blocking the aura perks.
No amount of skill will prevent a Pain Res or a Pop from going off.
You're seriously telling us that it's feasible for survivors to not get downed at all out of sheer skill? The skill discrepancy required for something like that to happen makes this situation extremely rare. Not even professional teams manage to leave the game without getting hooked once consistently enough for this to be considered even remotely an option.
And if you think that's actually possible, I'd ask you to please show us a 5 run streak vs those perks where you never get hooked once and the perks never go off.
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I barely played as and against the old Freddy. That was back when I couldn't really play many games with my old PC because it would struggle with anything that wasn't League of Legends.
I do have a couple ideas about his power, though.
So, you want survivors to be asleep to hit them, right? But also survivors didn't want to be in the dream world. But what if we make it so survivors would want to be asleep? You could make it so survivors have a permanent Paranoid debuff while awake, with a small slowdown to healing and/or repairing, or maybe increased skill checks with tiny or no Great zones at all (I think this is probably more interesting than a straight up slowdown).
Once asleep, the debuff goes away, but survivors will see fake pallets and fake hex totems. Interacting with fake hexes could give the killer Killer Instinct.
Awake survivors cannot interact with asleep survivors and vice versa.
Blowing up a generator will not wake you up, or will do so with a massive penalty. Stabbing yourself while healing should probably wake you up, though.
The killer's power that made survivors go asleep could have a small AOE, big enough to put to sleep people repairing gens together or healing each other.
I don't think permanent distance based aura reading is a good idea because the maps nowadays are tiny anyway, but decieving enemies is fun, so survivors could maybe see fake items on the floor while asleep, or "think" that they've picked up an item from a chest or from the floor (maybe for the Franklin's synergy), and when they try to use them, they disappear. Medkits and toolboxes would vanish on 2 seconds of use (with no real progress being done, even if the progress bar shows up or even changes colour for the "extra" gen speed), but flashlights could vanish when they "blind" the killer (they're fake flashlights, so they can't really blind the killer).
It doesn't have to be exactly like this. They could pick and choose what sounds fun. I think the fake items and the Paranoid debuff could be cool.
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@caligraph said:
Thats how its meant to work. The wiggle system exists as a way for coordinated team plays to rememdy a survivor mistake, and to prevent the killer from scourge/basement hooking you every down. If wiggling could reliably save a survivor it would provide no counterplay for the killer other than slugging. its a team game after all, we should have to play as a team to prevent something like a hook.
"Meant to work" - Not really. Perfect wiggle skill checks used to reduce carry time for 1 second (as in, hitting all of them reduced one single second of total carry time). That's how it was meant to work.
But people complained reducing carry time for 1 second was extremely overpowered and that killers were losing legitimately earned kills because they couldn't reach scourge hooks in the middle of the map so now wiggling skill checks do nothing.
Which, honestly, I wish they just removed them like they removed the button spam on last hook if it's not going to do anything anyway. It's just stupid and useless. Just make survivors wiggle passively and press F to stop wiggling for things like pity hatch. The whole minigame is pointless right now.
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This is probably the only game I know of where one side can decimate and double the enemy team's highest score and still ask for nerfs because something is "too strong".
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I wouldn't mind the awful escape rate if we were drowning in rewards for playing a game we're expected to lose, but considering I take from 3 to 5 times longer to complete survivor quest compared to a killer quest…
Killers get awesome powers, moris, easy challenges that are often things like "kick a gen", "hit a survivor", "hook survivors"… My Freddy dailies are "achieve dream chaser score" or whatever and I have no clue what I'm meant to do, I just queue as Freddy once and complete it. My survivor dailies? Escape the trial. Sabotage hooks. Be the one that opens the gates. Things that often require me to throw the match to complete the quest and/or only happen once every 15 matches.
What's my reward for playing survivor? Clicking on a generator or on a survivor for minutes on end. I don't have cool powers like throwing out decoys or teleporting between lockers. I'm stuck clicking generators for 20k bp while killers get at least 25k per match by putting minimum effort and being able to enshroud everyone in darkness or vomiting weird stuff from their belly like a grenade launcher.
Like, okay, I get it, you want survivors to lose so killers can live their power fantasy. But at least make it rewarding or fun? Give us more stuff like Diversion, Deception, Blast Mine… and less "Every full moon, if a killer opens a locker and you're looking straight at them but don't start chase, you get a 1% extra gen repair speed until you break line of sight with them".
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It's so interesting seeing people discuss this stuff. When the anti-slugging / insta-mori PTB happened this was an issue and the update had to be canned, but when Billy can do it, it's fine and it's exploiting enemy mistakes.
To this day I can't believe the only people risking anything when a slug happens is the survivors instead of the killers. What's the point of hooks anyway.
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@steamed_hamzzz said:
Realistically the game should always be slightly killer sided, in a 1v4 game the 1 should be the power role
That being said, assuming everyone’s around the same level of skill, the hierarchy of power of DBD goes:
SoloQ survivor - Killer - SWF
My problem when people say "in a 1v4, the 1 should be the power role" is that they're not counting players, they're counting wins.
In a 1v4, if the 1 can kill 2 on average, they're the power role. Because 1 player is stronger than at least 2 of the opposing team players on average. But people don't usually count that as being the power role because that's a tie.
When people say they want killers to be the power role, they don't mean "one of me should be able to take down more than one of them", they mean "one of me should be able to win more than a team of them" which is a terrible game design decision.
A team of them should be able to win about as many matches as one of me.
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no cuz survivor is ez an killer outplay dem just leaf teh gen vvhen u here da sound X D git gud
Or something. I don't know. Pretending to be a forum killer main gives me a headache.
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Whenever I play Survivor I'm 99% sure I'm either gonna lose or I get a pity escape or memey killer that will let me go. There is not a single game that I can say I fully enjoyed and both teams were trying their best and both had chances to win and was a constant back and forth. It's aaaaaalways either a stomp or memes.
So no, I'm not exactly enjoying survivor whatever little amount I play. I'd rather just play killer because at least I don't get "Do X and escape" missions that get stuck at 0/1 progress for days, until a killer sees me making puppy eyes and pointing at the exit gates and takes pity on me.
I just have to walk around and bonk people and I complete Killer missions. People get annoyed when I say this, but it's... it's easier.
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95% of the remaining community are jaded veterans that can't let this game go and have grown to project their own pessimistic views of the game into everything their rivals do, so nowadays things like survivors letting you get a free hit at the end game is considered toxic instead of some free BPs.
This is why there's no moderate takes anymore. It's always something along the lines of "Distorsion is TOXIC" or "I crossed paths with the killer to get a protection hit while I was on death hook and they HIT ME??? And TUNNELED ME??? And I DIED???".
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@Pirscher said:
Fear of missing out on what!? You do not need cosmetics to play the game 😂. Learn self-control people. You people are a victim of your own psychological manipulation "the bright glowing pink hair cosmetic is now gone - FOMO in play 😥😥😥 "
... isn't this victim blaming? They create a predatory system based on false scarcity and when people dislike it your reply is "Well, don't be human 😂😂😂 Stop having wants and needs. Just because you like a cosmetic doesn't mean you should have it 😋😊😉😆 Next time don't stop playing the game? Or discover it earlier! 🤔😘🤗🙂"
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Because my opinion leans more into freedom of self expression than on exclusivity and prestige.
If I have a character I love and the only cosmetic I like - maybe because it reminds me of my style, maybe because it's my ideal, maybe because it covers a fantasy I find appealing - is a limited release ran from August 7 1994 to September 3 1994, it kinda sours me on the character, and if it happens enough times, it sours me on the game.
Because I know there's something that I like that I'm more than willing to pay good money for but I can't because some twisted version of Scrooge McDuck with an inferiority complex only finds self worth by shining their limited run stuff at other players online.
And while I've had my fair share of limited run stuff in a lot of games throughout the years, if suddenly the devs of any of those games said "We're re-releasing limited cosmetics" I'd be like "Aw. Oh, well, that's fair." because I know how bad it feels when you're on the other end of the exclusivity.
As an example, recently I've started playing Fortnite again because my friends went back to it, and it pisses me off to no end the fact that a dance from my culture is locked behind a battle pass of who-know-how-many-years ago. I'd kill to have it so I could represent my culture, but the exclusivity made that emote pretty much non-existent. Not only can I not buy it, but also no players EVER use it anymore because of the shiny new stuff. It feels terrible and I'd rather give away my collection of exclusive items than letting other players feel the same.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3659822#Comment_3659822
I think, the only time, it beccomes problematic is when 4 luck offerings and more then 3 slippery meat and up the ante are in play. Almost a 70 - 80% rate for a free unhook is not "nice" to play against. There is a reason of why deliverance has a huge requirement.
I think we have different definitions of what "problematic" is.
I wouldn't consider survivors bringing 4 offerings and 8 perks for a chance to unhook themselves once throughout the entire trial "problematic". If you're not waiting next to the hook, the value of self unhooking is negligible. Yes, the rest of survivors can keep doing gens, but you still have to heal yourself or do gens wounded, and both options require perks to mitigate the shortcomings of having half your build oriented to that one chance to escape. You're not getting gens done much faster nor surviving chases for so much longer with the options we have.
Self unhook, even with entire builds dedicated to it, is an entirely harmless, almost non-existent mechanic. And the cost you have to pay to make it somewhat reliable is definitely not proportional to the benefits you get when it does work - a clear indicator of something not being "problematic" by any stretch of the imagination.
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So I'm not crazy when I say the new Invocation perk works very similar to the summoning circles I suggested a year ago for an alternate game mode. They do seem to be taking community feedback this time around - with varying degrees of success, but they're trying at least.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653850#Comment_3653850
Think about that the other way around: you get your head trap off almost instantly and Pig loses her pressure to rng. I’ve had it happen where everyone gets their trap off fast and she is stuck without a power.
Didn't they make it impossible to have everyone remove their traps too fast? I could swear they changed the traps from full random tries to "pick one random trap between the 1-2-3-4 tries traps" every single time.
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I'm really tired of number perks. "Gen repair 1% faster if you remove each totem in the map", "walk 1% faster while injured if the killer is closer than 2 meters when they swing their weapon", "heal others 75% slower but increase heal speed by 0.5% each 1.5 seconds you spend healing other survivors".
Stop that. Give me something weird and fun. Let me throw a running decoy that disappears after a couple seconds. Let me stand still while crouching when the killer is nearby to get a Wraith-like invisibility. Let me teleport between lockers as long as I'm not in chase. Let me set up wire traps on the floor that will stun the killer if they steps on them. Let me gather clues around the trial if I have a map and once I have enough a coloured path shows me the shortest way to the hatch.
I know people will freak out because "Your ideas are not balanced!!" but there's so many different things we could be doing instead of making gens and heals faster and they already have so many levers they can pull to make them balanced.
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@jesterkind said:
These changes are revealing that apparently a lot of people think Pig's traps are for killing survivors and not for slowing the game down.
The timer before a head pop getting thirty seconds longer isn't going to change the fact that you're dragging survivors off generators to go search boxes. The entire point of Pig's power is that it guarantees a head pop won't happen if survivors willingly give up generator time to go search boxes. All thirty extra seconds will do is provide slightly more team counterplay if the Pig is trying to hard focus down one person with a trap, and that's not even viable to begin with.
So, the timer nerf doesn't matter and the box aura nerf is a little more noticeable but ultimately doesn't matter. In exchange, we at least have the beginnings of giving Pig a proper chase power and improving her stealth. Yeah, the devs are serious, because this is a buff overall.
I think the extended timer is to reduce edge cases. It hardly ever happens, but I've had a couple of times where leaving immediately to start searching boxes while having the trap that requires the highest amount of tries to disarm would not be enough to search all the boxes you need.
It's a once-in-a-blue-moon issue, but I've gotten killed by a slightly too short timer before. It feels terrible because you're left there thinking "What was I supposed to do... I just got RNG'd to literal death."
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@crogers271 said:
Two reasons I'd go for:
1: Teleport is pretty powerful.
2: Lots of killers overuse their power. Sometimes killers would be better served off just using their superior speed to hit the survivor with an M1, but because you have a power, you use it. Freddy doesn't have any power to distract him in chase really. Even the pools don't slow him down that much and are so weak that players don't overuse them.
It's kind of like the videos Hens and others made where they played without using their power and still got a lot of success. That's Freddy by default. This means players can't make a mistake by missing a charge / hatchet / summon, etc.
This is actually something I've been thinking about a lot lately. I keep seeing people saying X or Y killer that already has some form of slowdown also needs this and that to help them in chase or at the end game. Yet I find plenty of success by playing fairly easy to play killers with not so many bells and whistles just by walking up to people and smacking them.
Even as Bing-bong man all I had to do to make chases quick is uncloak as soon as I found someone and just smack them. If they do the perpetual window vaulting thing more often than not it's better to just not play their game and just uncloak. They'd frequently vault one too many times and I either get a free hit or they lose plenty of distance.
On the other hand, my kill rate plumets the moment I try mechanically complex killers and refuse to take the L every once in a while and just smack them normally instead of using my power. Yes, I understand I may find more success with better tools, but I feel like some people don't understand that sometimes the best play is to not use your power - ESPECIALLY when survivors are expecting it, as they sometimes kinda outplay themselves into your fist trying to dodge a hit that's not coming.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649970#Comment_3649970
Either way, a 9% difference isn't that significant, and less than it used to be (15%). This just goes to show that SWF aren't as huge of a problem as some like to make out they are.
The difference between the absolute most used killer and the rarest, least used one is 6%.
The difference between the absolute highest kill rate and the lowest kill rate killer is 15%, and the only thing below that is Doctor with a 19% difference because he's plagued with AFK bots.
10% is a lot. It means in 1000 matches, roughly 100 more people escape if they are full SWFs than if they are solos. (It's not quite that cut and dried, but that is the general idea)
EDIT: 400 more people. Don't do maths before bed, kids. There's a point you don't even remember what you're calculating anymore.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
Oh boy I bet no one will misinterpret these or use them to further push an us vs them narrative!
At which point can we use data to start talking about balance. Either side could have 100% win rate and they would still defend themselves with this nonsense. Surely at some point a high percentage means something is going on.