Eelanos
Eelanos
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- Eelanos
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It's literally a free value perk. I've been using it because people either don't heal and instantly die or heal and waste 6 minutes on it.
0 thoughts, just easier game.
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@Yippiekiyah said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3467796#Comment_3467796
Nothing to do with healing nerfs, more like op perks like adrenaline and resilience thats fuelling gen rushing.
I absolutely loathe the double standards of forum killer players.
Killers can have entire end game builds that end on a 4k after a terrible game with 0 kills and they immediately say "Well, it is an end game build. This is the reward for playing perkless the entire game.", but then you have Adrenaline activating only once in the entire match and they want it nerfed to nonexistence just like it happened with Decisive Strike, which was nerfed to not be usable the one time it was supposed to be useful.
Now, keep in mind, if Adrenaline gets nerfed out of the meta, some other perk is gonna take its place, and it could very well be another gen speed perk. We could very much be heading for a worse meta than the one we're in, so choose your battles wisely.
I don't even like the perk because getting any value out of it on soloq is a gamble, but it truly annoys me how the conversation around survivor perks has revolved around "I wish Prove deactivated after a gen is done", "I wish Made For This deactivated after the first chase", "I wish Circle Of Healing self-destructed after one heal", "I wish Overzealous deactivated permanently after getting hit".
Jesus christ, take the L at least once. You don't have to 4k every game. Just because an end game perk did its job once every 7 matches doesn't mean it's overpowered.
You have at least 3 dedicated perks tailor made to prevent value from Adrenaline. Just once, just once you should adapt to the survivor meta, not the other way around.
God, opening the forums always get me tilted with people's terrible takes on game balancing.
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It's so annoying because I don't have enough perk slots to counter every awful thing they're doing.
After 3 matches in a row with a face camper I decided to get an anti-facecamping perk set. The moment I equipped it no one face camped.
I got 2 normal matches where I could get no value out of my perks and then 2 matches where killers decided to tunnel unhooks and my anti-facecamping set could do nothing against that.
Then I had to run a mish-mash of anti-tunnel anti-camping perks that don't synergize with itself and I got no value out of my set. It was like running perkless.
So I got fed up and went back to playing killer.
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This might be "controversial", but I'm a fan of games like Alien: Isolation or Amnesia: The Dark Descent, so something I really enjoy is feeling powerless against a greater threat and my greatest tool against it being hiding. The tension of having a killer right in front of me and watching them look for me as I stand right at the corner of their peripheral vision gets my blood pumping.
I still play to win, mind you, and loop to the best of my ability just like any other, and if I have to bait the killer into hooking me instead of somebody else, I will, but none of that feels as good as spending two minutes trying to avoid the killer and pretending you've never been there to begin with and then seeing them walk way in resignation.
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@Krazzik said:
I mean for the other survivors.
use aura perks find them offer them to killer as sacrifice
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@H2H said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3462378#Comment_3462378
IMO DS (and OTR) shouldn't deactivate when all the gens are done.
OTR I can understand, but there's no reason DS deactivates in end game. A player has to play with one less perk for it to be worthwhile in the end game.
Like, that's the whole point of the perk. If they were going to make it deactivate both in end game and whenever you so much as remain in the vicinity of literally anything, then might as well let it trigger multiple times throughout a match.
But then again, that just makes it worse OTR anyways.
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@Saiph said:
The problem with camping/tunneling is that they ruin the game for casual players but are actually needed and balanced at top level. So if BHVR gets rid of it, they will have to seriously rebalance the game. I hate tunneling/camping as game mechanics, but I acknowledge that it is very hard to win for killer against a good SWF without tunneling.
I don't think BHVR even has the ability to do such a rebalance based on what we've seen in the past years (esp. DS duration nerf, totally backwards...). I still wish they tried more. The casual playerbase is what's the most important for a game ultimately. If there are no casual players left then the game becomes a sweatfest and both sides won't like that. This is what we've been seeing in the past 2 years where both sides think the game is becoming more and more difficult, without realizing that it's not due to balance changes, but rather that the playerbase is half of what it used to be so on average they are playing against much better players than before.
I'm gonna be honest, them not trying to tackle tunneling and camping as issues and considering them "Strategies" is just their way of getting rid of any responsability for poor balancing.
In no game the core mechanic for winning is just standing still until the end of the match, but it's easier to leave it like that and let the community fight amongst themselves than actually coming up with a proper set of rules and mechanics rework so actually playing the game is way more effective than not doing so.
BHVR is terrible when it comes to actual fixes, always opting for releasing extremely situationa perks to "fix" issues and avoid responsability by saying "Well, the perk is there. Maybe you should equip it?".
And this is not a "this side" or "that side" issue. Reassurance and Shattered Hope are in the exact same position being bandaid solutions to avoid responsabilities instead of coming up with actual fixes.
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I'm so glad people are starting to respect this perk. The amount of survivors I've hurt and even downed because I'd equip it and pretend I didn't have it is so high.
Plus, I can't be bothered playing around flashlights.
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@mustdogen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459137#Comment_3459137
Uhh do you have any ideas what 3% extra speed mean?
It means that killer need to spend 25% more time to catch up the distance.
In other words, with MFT, it's like every windows and pallet are 25% closer with each other.
Oh even better, because you would have longer reaction time and longer looping time than just make pallet and windows closer.
So basically this one single perk, just break the m1 chasing mechanic.
I don't know if this is not overpower what is.
I really don't understand why people can keep defending it,it basically just a perk that"You can't m1 me because i have MTF"
Amazing. Thank you for your insight. Now, what survivor perks would you make?
Movement speed perks are out of the table because a 3% increases catching up a wooping 25% more.
I'm guessing gen speed is out as well because it reduces total chase time by shortening match length.
Healing speed perks are a no-go considering everyone was having a meltdown over the Circle Of Healing "buff" that reduced CoH's usage about 80%, mostly because it denies hit-and-run strategies and the faster survivor heals the faster they can undo killer progress.
Not sure about your thoughts around self pick-up, but I'm certain a perk that allows you to infinitely pick yourself up after a while being slugged would make the forums crash with all the traffic of people complaining about it. Although to tell me your opinion on it, I'd love to know.
A perk that freezes the hook timer and starts giving survivors points when the killer is nearby is probably a bad idea as well, because there's a small chance - like, a minuscule chance - that this can be somehow get exploited by survivors. I can already imagine the forum going like "This punishes people that don't facecamp while doing nothing to disuade facecampers".
Let's see... if you'll allow me to risk a guess, your survivor perks would be some variant of Diversion and Urban Evasion. Although I'd expect you to put many tells on your version of Diversion. After all, successfully distracting the killer could potentially decrease killer efficency by as much as 17% (!!!), which in turn would make a 4-man Diversion team make the game unplayable for the killer role.
I'm curious on your opinion on things like insta-down Huntress or any of the other insta-down killers, add-ons and perks, or even high-mobility killers. I'm sure for these cases you'd forfeit raw chase and match duration numbers and your reply would be much more nuanced, with best and worst use cases and some form of "It rewards skillful play" comment.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
If it weren't at one gen and were at 3-4 the complaining would be the same. After the change the complaints will still be the same. If the gates were immediately powered on being loaded into a trial people would complain about not spawning next to an open gate.
I see face camping like one out of every twenty matches. That's being conservative. It's really not a huge deal but this community has to be hyperbolic about everything.
The thing is, people don't like that the main gameplay feature of the game is removing their ability to play.
Killers in these forums frequently moan about survivors having no counterplay under certain situations, but when the guy that someone stared for 2 minutes and had to leave the match with 2000 BP after using a BP offering complains about facecamping, killers come out to defend this "strategy". "There's 4 of you, you can still win", "Sometimes killers can't do anything and that's the only way they can get some points", "There's too much gen speed, this is survivor's fault", "Well, survivors "tunnel" generators, so what are we supposed to do"...
In the end, instead of all agreeing that the game should have comeback mechanics for both sides and that at no point in the match standing still should be the best strategy (facecamping, gate camping and 3-gen setups, off the top of my head), people would rather just defend unfun and unengaging gameplay because "Well, I lost this match, so I have to resort to low counter strategies because I am soooo high level and these survivors are 100% SWF".
To put it in the same way you did with survivors and the gates being immediately powered: Even if not facecamping gave survivors a 100% repair speed penalty, losing a SINGLE game would still make these types of killers feel like facecamping is justified. People don't like losing and don't like admitting their own faults, so if they can cheap out a kill, they will, with 0 regret.
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So the conclusion to all of this is that survivors should no longer have content. From now only, only killers and killer perks, because survivor perks are OP.
It doesn't matter if it's 1%: Extra generator progress is bad for the game, extra movement speed is bad for the game, extra healing speed is bad for the game...
Extra health states are bad for the game, stealth perks are bad for the game, aura reading is bad for the game... so what exactly do people want survivors to have?
Everything on the survivor side has to have obnoxious requirements with low increases (If all other survivors are hooked, slugged or dead and the killer is within line of sight, decrease pain noises 1% after fast vaulting a window) and never be able to counter "strategies".
A perk to stop a survivor from dying when the killer is facecamping? "BUT WHAT ABOUT LEGITIMATE SITUATIONS FOR FACECAMPING?!?!?"
A perk to prevent killers slugging? "PICKING YOURSELF UP ONCE IS OP. KILLERS CAN'T SLUG LIKE THAT??? WHAT IF IT'S NEEDED???"
Wiggling being able to reduce time for carrying a survivor to a hook for 1 second was OP, but backpack builds are fun and niche.
Just admit you don't like survivors having a chance to survive, guys. It's okay, I understand, we all like winning. There's no point to build unsustainable rhetorics like "A bloodlust 3 killer can't catch a +3% speed survivor". It's not an objective opinion about game balance, you just don't like losing.
The most fun part about this is that MFT will inevitably get nerfed and we'll go back to the bi-monthly "Survivors are OP but 90% of survivors are just really bad at the game".
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@DrDucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456702#Comment_3456702
Except that perk has a time limit and can only trigger 5 times, it would be like giving the killer perm speed whenever a gen got done, that would be crazy. thats the equivalent
You guys are terrible at finding equivalencies.
If you complete chases, MFT only activates 3 times max. Out of those 3 times, only half of the chase would be active. The potential value may be higher if you smack them and let them leave ad infinitum or if they remain injured throughout the match, and the later one would have major tradeoffs like being constantly injured, moaning, bleeding and having only one health state.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456702#Comment_3456702
I wish machine learning was actually free so I don't have to kick two gens, then wish survivors to finish up that EXACT gen, to get the value.
If that perk activated upon every gens finished, literally everyone would complain about how broken it is, because it's absolutely free, doesn't require any work unlike current machine learning, then it's effect is strong as heck.
on the other hand I don't think being rewarded for losing is any way unhealthy though...
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456848#Comment_3456848
It doesn't make them broken or anything, they still have two health state, it just buffs one of it.
I mean, it feels strange you say that because I actually wish anyone running MfT made survivors to have one health state.
How about adding it's effect for no mither? that could be interesting LOL
- "If that perk activated upon every gens finished, literally everyone would complain about how broken it is, because it's absolutely free, doesn't require any work unlike current machine learning, then it's effect is strong as heck."
Yeah, just like everyone is complaining about Tinkerer. Free value out of losing 70% of a gen. Everyone's complaining.
- "On the other hand I don't think being rewarded for losing is any way unhealthy though..."
Neither do I, mostly because "free rewards for losing" usually are just comeback mechanics. If we had, say, survivors getting gen speed according to the number of survivors killed or d/c or killers getting breaking speed or extra kicking regression according to how many survivors are alive and how many gens got done, that would be "rewarding people for losing", which is... exactly, a comeback mechanic to prevent stomps.
But the OP insists on using this just to call survivors bad and "babied", and the perk overpowered, which is where I disagree.
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"While MFT gives it for free and permanent."
If it was permanent, people would have the effect either from the start of the game or from the moment they got hit and never lose it, but the effect deactivates as soon as you stop running around while wounded. It doesn't even help you walk faster.
"No, being injured is not your merit, this is your fault. The killer played better than you and you were injured. Imagine being rewarded for it."
Let's see. Ahem.
Machine Learning: While Machine Learning is active, the next Generator you damage becomes compromised, highlighting its aura to you in yellow, until it is completed.
Upon its completion, you are granted the following effects for 20/25/30 seconds, after which Machine Learning deactivates:
- Undetectable Status Effect.
- +10 % Haste Status Effect.
I don't see you up in arms because this perk activates when the killer loses a gen, actively rewarding them for letting gens be done.
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@Rareware0192 said:
To that same token, players have complained endlessly about Call of Brine and/or Eruption when it was strong not that long ago. There’d be endless board topics on Eruption alone.
It’s not that the perk is good. I want there to be good survivor perks too. There’s just a difference between good and overtuned. There’s no reason a survivor perk should be able to give you a decent Haste buff (yes, 3% IS a big difference), on top of an Endurance effect where the only requirement is to be injured (which will happen every single game multiple times) and not exhausted.
Main difference being, people were complaining killers were running around with 1000% gen regression that gave difficult skill checks and locked gens on a single build and in this case people are complaining over a worse version of an exhaustion perk that isn't even compatible with other exhaustion perks and only ever activates after getting hit at least once.
The toolbox regen perk is op, the 3% move speed is op, second chances like Dead Hard are OP, playing with 1 less perk throughout the entire match to save your ass in end game with Decisive was also OP... so what exactly do people want survivors to have? Like, just run around perkless and drop dead on sight?
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@GHOSTfaceP3 said:
It almost feels like old self care but not at the same time....you dedicate two perks to it but at the same time I play solo and my team is almost always unreliable 😅
It's just a few seconds slower than pre-nerf circle and has the benefit of not having to rely on team mates while also providing faster heals to them when they need them. It's okay, considering self heal has been gutted.
If you feel like going self-care, botany almost feels mandatory.
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@Brimp said:
Should at least have a requirement other than "be injured".
Like not being exhausted?
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If it makes you feel any better, it also feels terrible to play for me as a survivor. I can't even tell the beginning and the end of some walls. It's hard to even locate the walls of the map at times.
Also there's small walls that look like vault points but you really can't vault over them, so I constantly bump into walls there lol
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@VoidOfMe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3450577#Comment_3450577
do you play league?
For how many years?
I can show you how MMR is a real problem there too and how people quit playing ranked cause of it and become "Aram" players forever.
I don't think you know what you're talking about.
... Since 2011 LMAO
You can catch me lacking in this game, but not in League.
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@SpiritsHusk said:
Weaker killer's kill rates will dwindle with anti-face-camp. Think about it, the amount of times a weak killer defends their hook and ends up getting a 2-3k because teammates were trying to unhook, face-camping 70% of time does not result in just 1 kill, especially if done early on it could easily cause for a 2-3k which boost kill rate stastics.
With anti-face-camp however, these statistics that BHVR loves to use in order to justify not buffing weak killers due to good kill rates for these reasons will plummet for most killers.
This is just my opinion, let me know what you think.
That's the entire concept of game balancing. Nerfing or removing unhealthy or one-sided interactions that hold back proper balancing of characters, then adjusting accordingly.
Everytime someone screams "But that's the only way I have to win!!" is being shortsighted, because they could be trading an unfun interaction (Staying still for several minutes to get a kill or two) for some buffs or QoL changes that could position them back to 55% win rate by doing something interesting.
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@jajay119 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3450729#Comment_3450729
Pretty much. I also find it odd to see so many claims of 'if you've got 3 gens done by the first hook then it's game over for the killer' argument cause in my experience the amount of matches that skew towards the killer when there are two gens left is actually quite sizeable.
From my experience playing killer, the first 3 gens are just... nonexistent. Either the survivors are blind as a bat and you end on a 5 gen 4k or they all spawn next to a gen and blast the first 3 by the time you start your first chase.
It always feels terrifying as a killer, but the moment you put one survivor down, the gens aren't going to go as fast at all. The amount of slowdown downing a single survivor applies to the game is massive, but people keep forgetting putting someone on hook pretty much means there's at most 1 survivor repairing, 2 if you're not doing your job correctly.
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They really should make it triple fragments so there's an actual choice between fragments and XP. It would be like choosing a bit of everything (fragments, iris) or a lot of one thing (only fragments).
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@whickedchainsaw said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3450557#Comment_3450557
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3450559#Comment_3450559
there is more to do than just gens but they only care about repairing no killer interaction no totems no chests just boring gens.
DH and healing got gutted and the killer is the power role, all things that the killers specifically asked the dev to do.
This means chases are not worth it. You are either a cracked looper with a really lucky pallet/window spawn or your chase will last 20 seconds.
The moment the first player goes down, it's a race against the clock, as you'll have two players busy with rescuing and healing (the rescuer and the rescued) and a third player in chase, dramatically reducing your gen repair efficency.
What this means is, if you're not close to 1 generator remaining by the first two minutes, the game is essentially lost.
DH allowed some innefficency to slip by, but it's now dead, so everyone is stressed out of their minds to have a sliver of a chance to win, and what you're asking them to do is to ignore the objective and essentially doom themselves.
So... yeah. People asked for this meta.
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I'm gonna break a lance in favour of the devs and say that many of the changes that were introduced that caused this situation were specifically requested by the players.
A lot of people cannot distinguish between an overpowered thing and an annoying thing and that made the devs listen to the wrong (but very loud and widespread) opinions and absolutely obliterate things that were fine but were only annoying, meaning the only things viable now are things that are 100% oriented to efficency and that always makes games depressing to play.
The current state of DBD is exactly what people were asking for, but the people that asked for this don't like it either because they didn't think of the consequences of such changes.
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Yeah, if you're losing against your sibling at Mario Kart, it's acceptable that you unplug their controller on the last race.
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@VoidOfMe said:
I have the same issue, but in a game called League of Legends, ever heard of it?
There too, I get teammates that play like potatoes. I wonder if riot would change mmr system for me...
League's system is nowhere near as bad because the lower ranks can be carried by your own skill alone until you place at your own rank or you reach the point where people start playing as a team. It's the reason carry/selfish supports are recommended for lower ranks up to a certain point where they just starve their other carries and get destroyed by teamplay.
This is not a thing on DBD. If your team is bad, or if the killer just feels like ruining your game, you're not given a single chance to escape. Well... maybe hatch if the killer doesn't decide to face camp you or tunnel you out. But your chances to win are left completely out of your hands.
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Consider playing another killer or playing survivor if you feel so pressured that you have to resort to face camping.
Having said that, this is the perfect time for this, because I literally came out of a match where I won against a group of survivors that kept looping me a little bit too well.
I ended with a 4k because I wasn't going to waste time looping on a really good loop against experienced survivors (and I'm fairly sure they were premade), and I just gave up on chases whenever I felt they were going to take too long. Checked gens to try and get some quick hits and never let them finish the gens.
It was a difficult match, and if I were a survivor there I'd even say I tunneled there because a survivor kept trying to get my attention to loop me and I knew what they were trying to do so I just gave up and went back to hook, and lo and behold, they were healing under the hook. (This is why I keep recommending people to equip Guardian over We'll Make It, but nobody listens)
At the end of the match they ended up trying to finish a gen that was about 90% done and I didn't let them, prioritizing regressing it over hitting them and they kept coming back like flies, so of course they ended up dying.
I got called a bot after saying gg, which says more about them than it says about me, to be honest.
TL;DR, know when to drop chase and know when prioritizing survivors is going to benefit you more than keeping gens in check.
And to all survivor, for Christ's sake, don't heal under the hook. You got me killed more times than I can count because of it.
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I'd finish faster if I told you what doesn't make me hate her, but if you insist... well, everything.
For a skull merchant, the skull motive is only ever present in the drones and it's not like it's easy to see in normal gameplay, so a pretty failed power fantasy there.
80% of her character design direction is "make her a femme fatale", which translates into really awkward walking animations, a really stupid mori where the survivors just stand there waiting for her to grope them and her first cosmetic being some sort of really ugly Lady Gaga-esque skin made entirely to show as much body as possible.
Her base skin is atrocious, with that really stupid glittery mask that makes me want to rip it off whenever I see it.
She has every single killer gimmick on her applied in the most awkward ways: Stealth, insta-downs, killer instinct, a tracking that bypasses aura reading, auto-pallet breaking, the ability to be in more than one place at any given time thanks to the drones, now she even has Haste... It's like they didn't know what to do with her and just put everything on her.
She can 3-gen from across the map. It doesn't matter if you did all center gens and left 3 on each corner of the map, she can and most definitely will put drones on all of them. You'll take one of them out, she'll get a speed up and put it up again. 1 hour stalemate, yippie!
Her power is made in such a way that, if you want to max your efficency, you will have to camp but people will hate you for it. If you want people to have fun facing you, you have to actively throw the game and use your power in a less efficent way to at least give an opening to survivors to do something.
And she reads manga. I didn't know where to put this, but it pisses me off so much. Like, her whole thing is that she's a sexy and nerdy murderer. It's like they want you to like her for the most surface level appeal they could think of.
God, I can't stand her.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3446684#Comment_3446684
Ruin is bad no matter how many perks you add to it
I'm not saying it's "opop" i'm saying it's not that bad.
As long as you aren't a slave to the meta you can make it work. But i guess a lot of people are so dependent on perks that anything that isn't the absolute best is terrible
To be fair, the way you put it is like saying that getting stabbed used to be bad but suddenly guns popped up and getting stabbed is not so bad anymore. Like, yeah, by comparison, I guess, but that didn't make getting stabbed any less deadlier nor any less painful.
There's a reason people are using Adrenaline, Inner Healing, We'll Make It and such. Self care didn't get any better, it's just that the alternative got worse, but Self care didn't become the next best option, other perks better than Self care did. And now with everyone and their mother running sloppy, it's just making Self care even worse than before for the current meta.
I understand raising the heal speed back to 50% would put us almost all the way back to square 1, but at the very least they could make Self care healing ignore sloppy to prevent it being the slowest heal in the game by far, hands down.
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I honestly don't think a competitive queue is going to solve the game's issues. Even if Competitive had rewards to keep the hardcore there, people won't miraculously stop trying in Casual queue and start equipping random perks like Hang Man's Trick or Slippery Meat "for fun".
Just look at League. Competitive only gets a pass because of the banning phase. In Blind Pick you get the exact same tryharding, only this time you can use the most banned champions on casual players and ruin their day. At the end of the day, Blind Pick is crossing your fingers and hoping no one in the enemy team decided to kick some newbie rear while you're just memeing around with Bard's portals.
If this game gets a competitive queue, people will go to competitive, play until they can't climb anymore, then keep their rank up there by going back to casua queue and stomping people there.
Plus, the matchmaking is already pairing players with 12 hours with players with 4000 and that's with a single queue thanks to the devs wanting faster queues. Dividing the queues will have the worst of both worlds: slower queues and terrible matchmaking.
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Why are people being so skeptical for the most random reasons.
"Tombstone Myers is hard to see" I haven't played against a Myers that isn't Tombstone or Jumpscare on 2 months, most of them being insta-kill infinite T3. I dread the games I face a Myers precisely because 90% of the time they're instakill Myers.
"he's low tier to begin with" I see at least one Myers per day, and Nurse, who's supposed to be one of the higher tier killers, I just had one yesterday, the first one in three weeks. Blight I only face slightly more frequently than her, and he's the busted killer at the moment. Most of my games are Weskers, Legions and Plagues. Heck, I've faced more Trappers this last month than I've faced Blights.
And a killer main that hasn't touched survivor ever has a higher chance of not knowing what Freddy's add-ons are than an actual survivor who unavoidably will have to learn to play against them. The killer won't see Freddy in action ever if they don't use him or watch someone playing with him (Which is unlikely, because rarely ever will you find someone upload Freddy gameplay anyways).
Whether he has more or less playtime, I don't know, but I think you guys are being overly skeptical. Plus, if he really is someone with fewer hours of playtime, this only reinforces that the game has a huge entry barrier and that soloq is cannon fodder for kill rates.
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I bought Mikaela for her healing boon and if I recall correctly I didn't get to max the perk until prestige 2 around level 30 something. The game just sometimes goes like "screw this player in particular" and all you can do is scream in silence.
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@ClownGuy5 said:
Not trying to be a hater but like why does it matter? They're fictional characters. I still dont understand the movement of having to make a bunch of gay/trans/bi/lesbians to appease peoples own sexuality.
Again not trying to hate on it, but like at the end of the day a video game is nothing but pixels that have 0 feelings towards you or interact with you.
Have you ever had one of those moments when a popular streamer or a celebrity admitted they really liked a really obscure game you love but almost no one knows? Or the hype when you meet a new person and you stumble upon a topic of conversation you're really passionate about and the conversation turns into that for hours and hours? This is kinda similar.
Heterosexual characters are "the default", to the point you can see a mile away when they're trying to match them with a "soulmate". When you see this over, and over, and over again you kinda grow desensitized and all you can do is roll your eyes because some of the relationships almost feel forced or coming out of the blue. They're there because they have to be there.
But the moment they put something people can relate to? A strong woman? A black hero? A lovingly gay couple? That hypes people up. They can relate to that, and they feel strongly about the character they relate to. It's easier to connect and like a character because they share something with you.
Putting it in another way so it's easier to understand, you may not care too much or only feel a twinge of sadness when a character gets kicked out of their parent's house, but people that actually had to go through that and had to feel the pain, the loneliness and the uncertainty of the situation can easily be brought to tears by the very same scene you don't care about.
It's easier to connect to characters we relate to. It makes our feelings for them stronger.
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I may get heated when I talk about game balance and the like, but outside of the realm of this game's balance and improvements, you guys all deserve to live happy and have fun.
If your way of living is guided by bringing as much good and happiness in the world as you possibly can, you all are good in my book, even if we scream at each other every once in a while about whether camping is a strategy or if it should be removed.
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If you stay at the center of the map, unless gen spawn is awful, you can defend up to 4 generator (technically 5, but I've never seen gens spawn like that) at a glance, especially if you're someone like Huntress, who has a clear shot for almost every angle of every generator visible from the center.
Not only that, but it's one of those maps where if RNG favours you, you can sit between both gates and flick your mouse really fast to camp both of them without needing to ever move until someone shows up.
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Solo can't have 💩 because anything balanced for solo will immediately be broken and abused by SWFs.
You're better off running auto-heal perks like Inner Healing or Renewal, remain wounded with Iron Will or, if you're in desperate need of an on-demand heal, self-care with botany and assume a role of semi-healer.
If none of these options sound appealing to you, an alternative could be using Bond to find team mates to heal you. Kindred + Open-Handed + Bond is a particularly strong soloq build. People feel more confident putting their hands on gens if there's someone giving info on the specific location of the killer, and Open-Handed Kindred can easily reveal killers pretty much everywhere on smaller maps.
Personally, I've had some surprisingly successful moments with Iron Will, completing gens literally in front of killers while wounded, but no single build is going to get you the reliability you're looking for. Iron Will just bypasses the need to heal and you can just do other stuff until you stumble upon someone else to heal you.
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Don't worry. It's a matter of time until they release Adam, Jeff, Zarina and the others as cosplays for Feng Min. Everyone will have their turn.
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A camped or tunneled survivor leaves the match in barely 2 minutes with 5k BP at most.
Raise the BP to 100k BP for being camped and I will PAY you to stare at me for 2 minutes.
If I'm not able to play my videogame because supressing me is the best "strategy", then you better pay me handsomely.
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@Xernoton said:
I have yet to see anyone complain about Quick Gambit, Friendly Competition and Cut Loose. The other perks all are or were extremely abusable. The reason you don't see them often is because most survivor groups are not good enough to utilize them. This is partly because SWFs benefit way more from these effects.
The new perks are ridiculous. Can't wait to see when the first survivors discover that running at an extra 3% can actually enable some infinite loops again. Or maybe we don't need build to last anymore and run Scavenger instead. Saving 20 seconds on a gen is not enough, let's go with 40. Keep in mind that everyone can do this for the low price of one perk and one item. You do not need to dedicate entire builds to gen rushing when you can do it that easy and save 160 seconds (of 450 seconds).
"The new perks are ridiculous. Can't wait to see when the first survivors discover that running at an extra 3% can actually enable some infinite loops again."
(Flashbacks to people complaining about Boon: Dark Theory being OP)
Also, I absolutely love that thought process. "No, the perks are broken regardless of how much use they see or how many complimentary perks you need to make them even remotely work, it's just survivors are bad lul"
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3432748#Comment_3432748
If you ignore all of the context that led up to the Killer being in a position to camp both gates, sure, they won by default. But the simple truth is that the Killer had to make a good play- a LOT of good plays- AND get lucky with the hatch spawn- to get in a position where they can camp those exit gates in the first place.
It's no different from Survivors getting the gates open with all 4 people healthy and ready to go. They had to make an entire game's worth of good plays to get in that position, and saying the Killer should still have a chance to win- especially without an endgame build specifically for that scenario, or the Survivors just making a stupid mistake- is just needlessly prolonging the game.
"especially without an endgame build specifically for that scenario, or the Survivors just making a stupid mistake"
You're so close to realizing what the problem is, but you just don't quite get there.
Killers, while more or less likely depending on the match, can still make plays up until the moment the last survivor leaves. If a survivor makes a mistake, like the all too common "just leave", the killer can still turn around the match depending on which killer they are and what perks they carry.
The last survivor doesn't have that luxury. If the gates spawn easy to camp at a glance, no amount of Wake Up! and Sole Survivor is going to help them open them, and if the killer is camping the gates, there's no room for mistakes or outplays. It's just one player frantically flickering their mouse left and right with no incentive to do literally anything else.
I insist: If EGC didn't exist, you'd be here having this very same conversation, only on the other side of the debate. You'd be asking for the game to either immediately end and kick all survivors out or get ultrabuffed to be able to make last-ditch effort plays. No one enjoys playing a lost match.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3432590#Comment_3432590
Yeah, some movies end with all the victims alive. Which is why I don't claim that the game is balanced when I 4K every game.
Again, you have the tools to escape even in the most dire circumstances possible, right up until you're lying half dead on the ground. But I really don't see how "So long as the match is still going, all players involved should still have a chance at winning" is a philosophy worth following above all else.
I mean, following that logic, we should unnerf Dead Hard and Decisive Strike at the very least. Both of those give you a chance to win a chase (Or in some cases, a match) that you otherwise lost. But people don't like feeling as though they had their rightfully-earned victories snatched away. At some point, you have to give in and let one team coast on to victory, even if the match isn't technically over yet. It just isn't that satisfying to play a game where nothing that you do really seems to stick; where any play, no matter how skilled or massive, can be undone in an instant.
And in this case, Survivors have already had two chances to escape, and failed. Giving them a third is fine, but after a point, it's time to stop. The match might technically not be over yet because you still have to walk through the exit gates or wait for the last Survivor to die, but the game is effectively done and should be treated as such by the game's mechanics.
You're running on false equivalencies. Even without DH and DS, chases are still winnable perkless and basekit, even if very difficult. There are windows, there are pallets, there's some mindgames and some LoS plays. The chased player still has agency over what they do and there's still the hope that what you're doing is progressing the match to a satisfactory result.
Leaving through the hatch or the exit gates doesn't follow the same logic. For starters, there's no "rightfully-earned victory snatched away". The survivor leaving isn't making the killer lose, it's making the killer not win as much. A hatch escape isn't even a "win", it's an "undo" button. A "try again" of sorts.
We're talking, in a situation where only one single player remains, is it good game design trapping them with a time limit and two easy to camp gates with a killer that has no incentive to leave the sweetspot between both gates?
The killer isn't winning here by outplay, they're winning here by default. By game design. There's no "rightfully-earned victory" here.
If we're going to make it impossible for a player to escape, the game should end on the spot. Otherwise we pretend there's hope in what the survivor does, when it truly isn't, just like with the reworked wiggle skill check.
Do not make people play through futile scenarios. Either end the game or fix gate spawns so there's actual gameplay instead of frantically flickering the mouse while standing in one spot.
You'd be complaining about this situation too if end game didn't have the EGC progress bar and had to stand in the same spot for several minutes with no hope of closing the game. But you're not because our current situation benefits you.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3432534#Comment_3432534
As far as the game is concerned, any escape is a win for you. Both the hatch and the EGC are a chance to turn a loss into a win.
And just by nature of spawning randomly anywhere on the map, it's pretty close to a 50/50 as to who will find the hatch first. The Killer can run a little faster, but that's hardly a guarantee they'll find the hatch first if it doesn't spawn on top of you, especially since Survivors have a better camera.
If having a chance is really that important to you, you can use keys to open the hatch. You can do gens if the Killer's camping the hatch.
I think you should really consider playing more Killer if being helpless as a Survivor bothers you this much. Not every horror movie ends with the victims even getting a chance to make it out alive. Some horror games end with the protagonist dying no matter what. Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is simply a lamp placed there as a cruel prank to give the victims false hope. Sometimes the Killer drags out the victim's demise, just for the fun of it. There are plenty of mechanics in place to ensure the match doesn't truly go on forever.
You can romaticise it as much as you want, but people don't play multiplayer games knowing they'll have 0% chance to win for a reason.
For example, some horror movies end with the victims alive and only background characters killed or harmed, yet that didn't stop players in VHS from avoiding killer queue altogether. And likewise, DBD killers cried for a buff when kill rate was 55% because they felt they had no chance to win in some matches. Do horror movies where the protagonists survive not fit the narrative, then? We'll just ignore those for the sake of saving gate camping and terrible map design as long as it's in favor of killers? Is standing still to win really a gameplay fantasy you're willing to bend over backwards to defend?
Again, if there truly is no chance to win, you cannot expect the survivor to hand you a 4k. As long as the game doesn't end, the players - all players involved - should have a chance at escaping or catching another survivor. We shouldn't default to "Well, I killed 3 so I essentially just killed all lmao"
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3432500#Comment_3432500
In a game that's already given you two separate chances to win, a third is still not enough for you? Killers wish they could get another chance after camping their endgame hook fails (And there's no guarantee they'll get even that, of course).
I play plenty of Survivor myself, and I really don't give a crap about dying. It goes with the territory when you queue as solo. More importantly for me, there isn't nearly as much pressure on me to succeed, and contributing to the team adequately is pretty simple; gens don't run away from you. It's a much less stressful role for me.
If the possibility of being helpless really bothers you that much, why don't you just play Killer? Because I thought it was pretty obvious that Survivors are supposed to be ultimately defenseless against the Killer.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3432501#Comment_3432501
Survivor is explicitly a co-op role. It's right there on the game's home page. And whether you play solo or SWF, you're all still, by definition, on the same team. And being on a team comes with the good and bad points; in Team Fortress 2, you can be the best Soldier on the planet, but if your teammates are potatoes, then the opposing team can just overwhelm you with sheer numbers. But you can also be a potato Soldier who gets carried because your teammates actually know what they're doing.
I mean, unless you spend the entire match hiding in some bushes near the outskirts of the map until the hatch spawns, touching the gens intermittently to prevent the AFK crows from appearing, you're ultimately still at your teammates' mercy. At any time, the Killer might find you and down you and your teammates might leave you to die on hook.
If you want your individual skill to be the main deciding factor in whether you win or lose, you picked the wrong role. And if you don't like losing to random chance, you picked the wrong game. You and your team have had 2 chances to escape by the time the hatch is closed, and you blew it. If the third is not to your liking, then too bad. At some point, you have to let the opposing team win a game when they've won a game.
Killers have entire builds about getting another chance right at the end game with NOED, NWO, Bloodwarden and the like. There's even videos of killers using Bloodwarden to go from a 0 to a 4k. Are they extreme cases? Yes. Do they still have a chance to win after the gates are open? Also yes.
Survivor end game builds don't prevent them from losing an already lost game, but they give them a bigger chance to at least escape. Survivors only get the satisfaction of escaping a lost game, while killers get the chance to transform defeats into victories. Which is fine by me, but if I'm the last one remaining, I don't want my only gameplay option to be walking towards the killer and stare at them like "You got games on your phone? 🧍" and hoping to God they don't just nod at me for the entirety of the EGC.
Plus, camping the gates will always trump survivor end game builds because the maps are tiny and the walls are at an arm's distance from the center, with close to no LoS breakers in some maps. No amount of Wake up! and Sole Survivor will prevent a camping killer from getting the last kill.
Hatch is almost a nonexistent feature that either spawns at your feet and you get it or it spawns somewhere else and the killer inevitably closes it (or worse, they camp it).
I don't need a win, I just want a chance. A chance at escaping. A chance at being discovered. Standing still to make me lose is not what I want.
When it comes to playing killer, I do play killer. I've been playing killer since 6.1.0 because I was getting fed up of playing matches that were over before 2 gens popped, and now it's my "The matches today are absolute garbage, I want to get some easy BP" role. Nowadays I play survivor/killer around 60/40. Which is the reason why I don't understand people feeling entitled to a 4k so badly. I sweat for the 2k, I try for the 3k and whatever happens to the 4k is up to chance. I don't give up (nor do I usually gift hatches) but I don't really care much either because I've already won regardless.
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@MyelinXCVIII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3432500#Comment_3432500
Both of these scenarios happen very frequently. I've had many games where I've been the last survivor and had unlucky exit gates, I've had many games where I've gone against a good SWF who completely clowned on me and did the whole wait at exit gate to rub the loss in, hell in some cases they 99'd the last few gens just to prevent the game from ending. My reaction to both scenarios is the same, "oh well, next game".
I personally don't care too much about the last survivor escaping with one major exception: adept achievements.
I meant that "games" as in "videogames", trying to point out that there's very few videogames, that feature a gameplay segment where you lost and you have to manually do a walk of shame towards your enemy to reset the sequence.
Usually when you lost, the game forces you into a death cutscene or spawns the enemy next to you and instantly kills you. The few times that hasn't happened to me it was generally due to a glitch or an oversight by the devs, and I didn't kill myself against the enemy unless the game used no save states (which only happened... what, once? Twice, long ago?)
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
Perk search bar is cool. It also should have been added 2+ years ago... better late than never, I guess.
Bot backfill on DC is really nice and I'm excited for that change.
The Nicholas Cage announcement is ... really weird, TBH. I'm not sure how I feel yet; having a real and still-living person in the game as a character is oddly fourth-wall-breaking and not in a good way. It makes me think that there was a meeting one day at BHVR and someone made a joke about getting Cage to be in the game and everyone had a good laugh except for that one employee who doesn't get sarcasm. This employee then went off and negotiated with Cage to be in the game and, when successful, brought the news to the rest of the team who stared dumbfounded at them, thinking "well... we can't really tell Cage that it was all just a joke, right? Ah, beans. I guess he's going in the game."
The new chapter's aesthetic is very good, but I'll withhold judgement on the chapter until we see how the killer works and the perks that will be included.
The planned Coldwind reworks have me absolutely terrified after the recent Mother's Dwelling rework where they took one of the most survivor-sided maps in the game and fixed it by making it even more survivor-sided. They also praised themselves for the RPD rework that didn't really address any of the complaints anyone had with the map. I really think they're going to rework the two Coldwind maps into something far worse than they already are. As much as I want problematic maps to be reworked, I do not trust the map designers to move the balance needle towards the middle.
Cosmetic stuff generally holds no interest for me so I mentally tuned out for that segment.
Face camp change is inconsequential unless they manage to botch the implementation; I don't face camp so it won't affect me.
All in all, I found the stream in the "kind of good, I guess, but not terribly exciting" category.
I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why Nicolas Cage is in this game using his own name. Like, not even a character name, why is Nicolas Cage himself here. It shouldn't be bothering me this much, but it is.
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@DBDVulture said:
Once again we see the problem : it's ok for the survivors to tunnel their objective but the killer is not afforded the same protection mechanics to prevent losing the gens too fast.
Well, generators don't have emotions nor do they get points by being unrepaired, yet human beings do have feelings and getting camped means they started a match to end it in 2-3 minutes with 2-3k points, which is the main difference.
And of course, the killer would never understand this because they will always play a full match and they will always get at least 12k. They cannot be held hostage by survivors and prevented to play, which the same can't be said about survivors.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3432448#Comment_3432448
If the gates are "impossibly" close together, then you got unlucky with the spawns. That's how luck works.
If you're going to talk about entitlement, why do you feel entitled to a "fair" chance to escape every match, even after the hatch is closed? It's already close to a 50/50 as to whether the Killer or Survivor will find the hatch first, so why do you feel entitled to an EGC where you always have a chance to escape?
How many games have you played where you have literally 0 chance of winning and you had to manually feed yourself to the enemy.
When a player has 0 chance of winning, the game is immediately brought to an end, save exceptions like the game getting glitched and getting you stuck and you having to forcefully killing yourself to restart the sequence.
No one, and I repeat, no one at all likes going through the humiliation of handing themselves to the enemy to finish a match they've poured their entire effort on.
As always, this is better seen if you flip it around. Imagine if you're playing killer and you lost so hard against a SWF that by the time EGC starts they supress your attacks and you're powerless to stop survivors blinding and teabagging you. Right now you can push them out, but in this situation you're powerless. What are you going to do? Walk to the exit gates and kindly ask them to leave? Or are you gonna be petty and look to a wall to avoid giving them the satisfaction of humiliating you? You've already lost, you're not gonna play their game. Just like when survivors hide in EGC.
Killers are always so entitled. "Survivors shouldn't heal that fast! Survivors shouldn't do gens that fast! Survivors shouldn't be able to counter face camping! Survivors shouldn't, shouldn't, shouldn't! Why do survivors want a chance to win? Maybe don't play the game LOL", but when there's a tiny fraction of a chance that they are the ones that don't have a chance, they become massive crybabies. "Boo-hoo! I cannot counter DH when it's used for distance!" "Now it's nerfed, but now I can't counter it on pallets!" "Now it's nerfed, but I still have to wait to make sure they don't have it!" "Nooo, survivors are sabotaging hooks and I can't hook them! I feel entitled to this hook, I won the chase!!!!" "Nooo, survivors shouldn't be able to pick themselves up! Otherwise I have to waste a tiny fraction of my power on hooking people!!!"
I want you to stop thinking like an entitled kid and think for half a second how would you like to play a game where you spend your time with literally 0% chance of winning, just being someone else's play thing. Literally school bullying, the videogame.
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@IWasLeft2Die said:
Had a game where a Trapper destroyed my team. I was the last one left and i fully expected them to kill, but they intentionaly let me wiggle free. They stood and let me open the gate but downed me right away and hooked me. I'm fine with someone not giving mercy (or actually being merciful) on a survivor but don't pretend to be nice just to dunk on them right away. Either kill me right away or let me go. I'm not your plaything.
I'm likely making this a bigger deal than it is since it just happened to be fair.
Thanks for reading my rant
This is why the "Killers shouldn't care about your fun" psychopathic mentality shouldn't be encouraged. Some people use it to excuse their ridiculous power trips, then they are the firsts to run here to complain about a SWF bullying them and "ruinning their fun".
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@TheycallmeLix said:
Lately people never bring anti-tunnel perks or exhaustion perks anymore and it’s getting annoying cuz they are the mostly getting tunneled out of the game immediately. I always have DS and Dead Hard in my build, and let me tell you that DS is still really good. Nobody expects DS anymore and that 3 sec is not that bad actually. I’m sorry if you are getting tunneled, but if you don’t bring anti-tunnel perks in your games, you deserve to get tunneled out cuz you should know by now that most Killers these days camp and tunnel, and it’s to buy your team some time to do the gens while the Killer is trying to tunnel you out of the game.
If I don't bring anti-tunnel I deserve to be tunneled.
But if I bring anti-tunnel but not anti-camping, then I deserve to be camped.
But if I bring anti-camp, not only do I deserve to be tunneled, but I also deserve to be slugged.
But if I bring anti-slug, now I deserve to be tunneled, camped and also 3-genned.
Guess what fixes all these awful situations? Exactly, more gen speed. The less time the killers have to ruin a survivor's game, the more likely you'll make it to the end, and the less effective camping, tunneling, slugging and 3-gens become.
Which brings us to current day DBD meta.
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I wish more people ran Guardian because it ruins the day of every tunneler.
Whenever I try to heal anyone on hook, the killer is usually back before I'm finished even with We'll Make It unless they don't tunnel to begin with. If they're tunnelers and they have sloppy, usually that means the other player is going back to the hook soon after I'm done healing them or even earlier.