Eelanos
Eelanos
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- Eelanos
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@DarKStaR350z said:
So we complained about seeing nothing but slowdowns and now we’re complaining about seeing nothing but aura reading? What do you want the killer to run, no perks?
Maybe a way for perks not to stack together.
Facing only one regression perk isn't an issue, facing a full stack of regression perks, where your generator loses 20 percent of progress and then locks up and continues regressing at 300% speed is.
Facing only one aura reading perk isn't an issue, facing a full perma-vision Huntress that knows exactly where everyone is at all times is.Moderation does a lot to mitigate the generalization that the entire concept is bad. Aura reading, like regression perks and many other, could be much healthier if, for example, killers didn't have vision of the survivors from the start of the game AND after they lose a chase… and after survivors drop a pallet… and while survivors are healing…
There's a point where you feel cheated. Like game is essentially getting played by itself for killers.
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I could swear I saw a video not long ago summarizing like, what was it… a Q&A? Or a dev stream? And they mentioned that BHVR themselves did say that they wanted to do cosmetics for legendaries.
Don't quote me on that, but still, I'm 90% sure I heard something like that.
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About 87% of the survivors won't say anything to you at all regardless of how you play, if that helps.
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@H2H said:
It’s not unfair or toxic or whatever, but it’s certainly unfun. I haven’t heard any solutions that aren’t just huge buffs to survivors (basekit Unbreakable) or exacerbating the DC epidemic (let survivors choose to die after being slugged) though.
I still don't know why self pick up is considered a "huge buff". It takes a long time to fully recover from the dying state without perks, and even then, you recover back to wounded, with no endurance. If you add perks, it still requires you to have at least a second player acting as bait, and you'd be sacrificing at least 2 perk slots to do this, which means no gen rushing builds, and at least 2 players off gens.
I don't know, the times I've been "legitimately" slugged, there's almost never been enough time to fully recover. The only instances self pick up would have done something is when everyone's getting slugged, or the killer is going for a slug for the 4k.
And honestly, even if this was an honest to God massive buff that would literally drop kill rates down to 0%, I'd much rather have a very nerfed version of the self pick up system that would not affect normal gameplay than not having anything at all. What, you need me recovering 3 times before I can self pick up? Sure, go ahead, but allow me to pick myself up when the killer has decided that today they feel like making me lick the floor until bleedout.
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@KerJuice said:
Regression itself is ok, but the instant regression perks like Overcharge & Pop Goes the Weasel shouldn’t have been nerfed. Also, kicking gens should not have a kick limit,
Chess merchant about to creep up again.
She was literally the breaking point on the whole 3-gen debacle and the reason we needed the regression limit so people couldn't pitch a tent in between the closest 3 gens and extending the game for 2 hours.
Besides, I don't know how you guys have an issue with the kick limit. I keep getting the warning spikes but I never seem to hit the limit in any of my matches as killer? I always think "Oh, shoot. This is my last regression, apparently" but I always seem to be able to regress it again. I suppose I haven't gone past 6 or 7 kicks in my worst cases.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3811650#Comment_3811650
what is wrong with the game tipping in survivor favor or killer favor? that should be decided by how well each side plays…. not the game.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3811651#Comment_3811651
i agree. i think both sides can snowball pretty heavily and i found that to be the most interesting aspect of the game. i found that 2vs8 mode is strangely more balanced than 1vs4 mode because either side to could win and you never know what to expect.
I didn't say it was wrong, but a lot of people treated 2v8 as a "for fun" game mode in comparison to 1v4's more competitive nature, and comeback mechanics are one of the ways to keep for fun game modes feeling equal.
If a terribly bad team gets paired against a super skilled team, the comeback mechanic should give more chances to the losing team to feel like they never got truly stomped and they had a chance to win the game.
They seem to be trying to double down on 1v4 being the competitive game mode and 2v8 being the more casual and crazy game mode. This seems to be the mode they're aiming for a roughly equal escape/kill rate, disregarding any MMR concerns (where they try to discourage draws to keep matchmaking scores moving)
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@Devil_hit11 said:
i don't get why killer is being punished for hooking survivors. shouldn't it be the survivor being punished for losing? Like shouldn't goal be to discourage tunneling and encourage killer to hook all 8 survivors? that design is literal opposite. your punished for engaging with entire team and encouraged to only engage with half the team. that is like same problem that 1vs4 mode has. that makes me laugh.
It's supposed to be a comeback mechanic, both the speed up on hook and the slow down on gen completion. They're aiming for the game not to tip too hard to one side or the other early on.
Whether or not it's properly tuned, I cannot say, but they seem to be open to mess up with the game mode, so most likely this is a temporary change that they will fine tune (or substitute) as the game mode gets more development time.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810239#Comment_3810239
The mindset of those players is...something. Zero competitive spirit. They want a power fantasy or a bully simulator. The second an opponent meets them on their terms, it's a problem.
There are a couple players I've found on these forums who'd legitimately reply stuff like "Do you think a real killer cares about how you feel? No, they would make you suffer." to me and I was thinking "Dude, it's just a game. I don't know what's going on home, but you need therapy".
But yeah, I've been playing killer a lot more since 6.1.0 because survivor was unbearable and to this day I cannot relate to killer discussions about 90% of the time.
My killer matches have been 80% of them either a full wipe or a 3k+hatch. You'd think I'd be pretty high up on the MMR right now and yet I keep having frustrating games only about twice a month, usually one of those "bully squads" that spend more time chasing you around to make your life miserable rather than actually doing gens, so you end up winning regardless but extremely annoyed.
And yet, the conversation always revolve around survivors being OP and never about frustrating gameplay patterns regardless of win rate.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
If you gender swap 1 your gonna have to make it a whole cosmetic collection for the whole roster like female dwight etc
(Looks at Cheryl and Legion) Um… I think we have precedents of that not being the case necessarily…
I don't care either way, but that is a terrible, terrible reason for why they shouldn't do it.
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If they ruin the Dredge because of you istg I'm gonna snap.
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When stuff like this happens it's because the gameplay has a clear gap. You can't expect one survivor to last in a chase for the 270~ish seconds it takes the other survivor to complete 3 gens, but you also can't expect people to just go AFK the very moment the second survivor dies.
We need to introduce mechanics for these situations. We could easily rework the hatch to show up when these situations happen - and before anyone freaks out about "giving free wins" or "taking away earned wins", you can make this "early hatch" a win for the killer with some partial BP earnings (50% of a sacrifice?) and a tie (not a win) for the survivors. That way the killer still gets the win, but the survivors still get to put some effort, not necessarily to win, but rather to reduce their losses.
Behaviors like these, where players refuse to engage in normal play, happen because there's really nothing to win or lose by not playing normally. It's very easy for even the most legitimate player to think "Well, my best bet to win right now is to not do anything and hope to God the other player gets caught first" and voilà, you got a hole in your gameplay.
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@RFSa09 said:
We have two options:
Make gens take ages to be done and overnerf every gen slowdown
Or
Nothing, there is no other viable option to "fix" it, unless you make every killer borderline uncounterable that will always down any survivor in seconds (like nurse), which doesn't sound very good
We will always have a meta, it's impossible to make every perk from every category be equally good/bad
Gen regression is meta because it's fundamentally the best thing you can have as killer
Anti tunnel is meta because it's fundamentally the best thing you can have as survivor
And I like the idea of adding interactive things on maps, but it would probably create another problem, a map can be extremely insufferable as one killer and a free win as another (cof cof gideon)
I said in the past they should decrease individual gen time but increase number of gens to do so total gen time remains roughly the same and regression perks get nerfed, but killers get more time to do stuff because you can't finish the game in 2 waves of gens. This also has the side benefit of feeling like the game never stops for survivors because generators keep popping and also traveling between generators gives extra chances for chases and adds extra game time.
But when I said this people were adamant that would benefit survivors too much.
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Unfortunately, as is nature in all multiplayer games, there will always be a "too strong" way to play. And this doesn't really take sides.
Regression is too strong, aura reading is too strong, self-healing is too strong, extra run speed is too strong… There's always something that people dislike, and when people that disliked that see those things nerfed and are happy with the gameplay, people that previously were okay with the gameplay might come out to hate on the new resulting meta.
In the end, some of the options the devs have is just throwing balance out the window and just try whacky things for fun, having a meta where your picks matter so little that people just run whatever perks so it's difficult for people to dogpile on a specific strong pick, or straight up accept that this is going to happen regardless and create a meta rotation (Ever seen how in games like League tanks are meta, then ADCs, then assassins so on and so forth and it always rotates?)
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3805232#Comment_3805232
Please do elaborate how that is a strawman.
"The only reason you disagree with this is because you're a selfish and ignorant killer main who doesn't know how hard it is to be survivor!"
That's a strawman. You just making up nonsense assumptions about people and painting them unflattering colors so you can dismiss them or distract from the actual discussion. I could just as easily call you an entitled survivor main who hates losing so you want any and all advantages a killer has stripped out of the game, but that would be rude and dishonest.
Also comparing BNP stacking to killers downing survivors and survivors just wanting to undo the killer's advantage for free is the most hilarious and absurd thing you could have possibly come up with. One of the most potent item add-ons in the game versus a basic and core aspect of gameplay. It's also very charitable to assume BHVR would balance the game in a way that works after adding Unlimited Unbreakables, and I'm sure there'd be very many complaints about any compensation offered to killers in the wake of that.
How's this for balance: if the survivors complete all 5 gens and the killer has less than 4 hooks, 3 of the generators just break themselves and reset back to 0 and the survivors have to fix them again. That's fair, right? Since we can just take one side's success away whenever we feel like it, regardless of context or causes.
… didn't you just literally use a strawman on me? Because I did not say such a thing. That quote of yours is heavily altered to the point of ridicule, and adds aspects to my statement that were not there to begin with.
I can admit you can read "ignorant" from what I said, but it wasn't meant at all in that derogatory "I am better than you" way like you're trying to imply, but rather that the unhealthy nature of the gameplay pattern can only be felt once you're on the recieving end of it. I didn't say anything about selfish killers, I didn't say anything about how hard it is to be a survivor… I said "play at least one game where you're slugged for several minutes so you finally understand that speedrunning the objective by just refusing to hook is an incredibly unhealthy gameplay pattern and should not exist in the game."
You even agreed with me, after kindly letting me know you do, in fact, play both sides. "I have had it happen to me before, because I play both roles in roughly equal measure. No, it wasn't fun" - although from then on you went on about losing which is not at all what the basekit unbreakable change is about at all, but rather how unhealthy and unfun it is that a "strategy" that a game allows makes one side of the board lick floor for minutes on end.
There's also one thing I don't understand and it's that part you said "wanting to undo the killer advantage for free". The thing is, it's not "for free", just like the EGC change was not introduced to prevent survivor wins "for free" - it is pressure on the survivors to prevent killers having to stay on a lose-lose scenario and reduce hostage situations.
Leaving someone on the floor should be a risky decision for the killer, not mostly benefits. The hook should always have more benefits than just leaving someone on the floor because that should be the natural conclusion of the killer gameplay. Skipping that part to "win big" should apply pressure on the killer, not on the survivors. And we're not talking about 20 seconds "Oops, I have to prevent a save" slugs, we're talking full 4 man slugs and the third player slug for the 4k scenarios.
Again, it's unhealthy that the killer can get an advantage by skipping 8 hook states. The BNP change was made under the same grounds: Survivors can speed up their progress, but should not be able to skip it, otherwise unhealthy and unfun gameplay patterns occur. The self pick up change is being requested on the same grounds, and if it truly raises survival rates so dramatically, it is only fair that balance changes are applied to eliminate any undesired gameplay patterns that may have arised due to the change being made.
This is not at all about winning or losing, this is entirely about gameplay health.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3805178#Comment_3805178
I have had it happen to me before, because I play both roles in roughly equal measure. No, it wasn't fun, but losing is never fun, and I didn't immediately leap onto the forums to make a sob story post about it and demand completely unreasonable changes that would wreck the balance of the game. It also happens so rarely that I can't treat it as anything other than fringe cases.
Sorry to burst your strawman bubble.
Please do elaborate how that is a strawman. Under what premise was BNP nerfed, and under what premise is people requesting to remove full slugs and 4k slugs through the addition of self pick ups.
And also, "wreck the balance of the game" is your assumption, not a reality. And even if you were right, a change like that would have follow up patches to rebalance the game around it were it to actually mess up with kill rates.
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I need people that think stuff like "Nooo, but killers' job is to incapacitate you, your job is to avoid it" to actually ruin their 100% Killer play ratio and play at least one game where they're slugged for several minutes so they finally understand that speedrunning their objective by just refusing to hook is an incredibly unhealthy gameplay pattern and should not exist in the game.
Keep in mind survivors had the ability to instantly repair generators and no killer liked it. Slugging survivors to skip 8 entire hook states is about the same as that was back then.
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I didn't get a multiple choice. I was asked what I wanted in the game and I said Eternal Darkness.
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4. Someone did a sabo in the game so they decided to slug everyone
Most of the examples are fairly situational, with everyone picking whichever excuse they like to justify playing scummy.
But this one…
I hate getting sabotage missions because killers in general switch gears when they see a sabotage attempt. And this is not a "I faced one player that didn't like it", it's a "Every single sabo mission I try to finish gets me slugged, camped or tunneled, hands down".
Probably my most recent example was my worst one. I had to do a sabotage mission a few days ago and a Clown got so offended, so angry, that they dropped the survivor they were carrying, went straight to kill me, carried me all the way to basement, and then proceeded to proxy camp until he saw someone come to rescue me, immediately started chasing me ignoring everything and everyone else, and once I was dead he started taunting me on the death camera.
So yeah, while most are mostly situational, "Sabotaging gets you out of the game first" is definitely, unquestionably a rule in the killer's rulebook.
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@CLHL said:
Aura perks are fun, a reliable bad player detector. You kick a gen, see a survivor hiding behind a rock in a corner with absolutely no structure nearby for protection... and you can already tell who is the weak link in the match.
To be fair, the same could be said for the other side. You can easily spot a bad killer the moment they run aura perks for every little thing they do.
"Ok, I kicked a gen. Where do I go now? I can't see anything, maybe I should open a locker. Where's everyone? Ah, there's a player here. Let's hook them. Where should I go now? I don't know what generators are being worked on, might as well let the game tell me."
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@Shirtless_Myers said:
The game is unbalanced. The developers give every killer a participation trophy at the end of every match. If you're looking for a truly competitive experience, it's best not to invest your time and money in this game. Most matches lack balance, and the developers only focus on the killers. The perks for survivors have been uninspiring in recent years, and survivors are nothing more than skins.
The participation trophy feels too real.
It's so frustrating that playing survivor I try to do gens, survive and support my team mates and I get 12k.
Meanwhile, I play killer, hit a survivor once and the score looks like:
Survivor found +200bp
Surprise! +300bp
Hit +500bp
Disruption +500bp
First hit of the match +200bp
Quick hit +300bp
Entity teasing +500bp
Hockey expert +1000bpand then I end the match, lose, and I still get 32k.
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Small Vigil buff. That perk was useless because everything the killers can apply on survivors is generally timed by buffs on them instead of debuffs on survivors or straight up are infinite duration if or unless X condition applies.
When they nerfed it I saw everyone getting rid of sloppy and I just kept it because I know 80 seconds of sloppy for a survivor is essentially the same as it being infinite anyway.
I suppose the nerf was also one of those "perceived nerfs", where a perk falls to irrelevance not because it's actually weak but because people just hate nerfs in general and any nerf will make them abandon the perk in hopes they find the next strong thing. The thing about this is, eventually people realize the effect is still strong anyway and go back to it, and I suppose that's where we are now.
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@Burniebotss said:
It’s because the killer is supposed to be the stronger one, that’s why there’s four survivors. Nerfs are made for the 1v1 and can really nerf a killers ability to manage all four. That and the fact that unless you’re new, you don’t fear them, that’s an advantage killers are assumed to have when someone plays killer. There’s no power trip playing the big bad which is what most started killer for. In fact it’d the opposite, killers have to fear what they might lose and end up over worrying making every little thing survivors do over exaggerated
Asymmetric gameplay or not, this is a game. A PvP one at that. They can't balance the game around the killers never having any fear of losing. You're supposed to lose if you play badly. As long as you want to win, the worry is always gonna be there.
Otherwise, what you're asking for is for 4 players to queue to a lost game where they're your plaything and you can do aaaaanything you want to them.
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6.1.0 truly was a turning point for the community.
Killers got a bunch of buffs that, if I understand correctly (Can't know for sure, I neither play 4-man nor did I play killer back then), they sorely needed to compete against premades.
But the buffs were SO strong against solo survivor that we spent about a month and a half seeing people give up at the first down because you knew if by then you didn't have at least a gen done that match was lost, hands down.
Many killers decided to use their newly gained strengths to bully the hell out of soloq (This is not an us vs. them, this is just my experience playing the game at the time, no need for everyone to start going "I didn't do this".) and survivors' brain chemistry has been irreversibly changed to give up the moment anything goes south out of the sheer disillusion with every match they played since.
From then on, the game has been awful to play. It doesn't matter what you add to survivor, people are extremely burnt out. And it's not a matter of "Take a break", people still like the game, but they throw themselves at the killer over, and over, and over again in hopes there's that one golden match where the game feels somewhat balanced and there's an actual winning chance.
And in a way, I understand. Until BHVR starts balancing depending on whether you're premade or not, the game will feel hopeless to play.
My escape rate went to hell and never returned. I started playing killer way more because I can't for the life of me finish tomes without throwing entire games as a survivor, as most tomes actively encourage you to play badly. I get tunneled, camped or slugged on the daily and I get 10k for it, and when I complain on the forums people say "git gud lul". Meanwhile, playing killer gives me at the very least 25k every match, and I'm able to finish tome missions at about a rate of one per one or two matches.
Survivor play is in an absolutely horrendous state, and SWF-centered balancing is gonna make sure it stays that way, with killer matches being either disappointingly easy or the worst experience ever concieved, with no in between, depending on if you're facing solo or premades.
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Conceptually, Lights Out is an amazing game mode, but their execution is really, really, really bad. Part of the fun is replicating the feeling of bigger maps by not allowing anyone to see anything, making it disorienting and unnerving. It'd be more difficult to navigate and everyone will run around like headless chickens and it would feel like a horror game.
But as per usual they give an advantage to killers by making survivors blind and deaf while giving killers gen auras and notifying them of unhooks which, urgh… it's like survivors are playing Lights Out while killers are playing normal DBD.
And if what I understood about what they wanted to do with the game mode this time is correct, instead of turning off the lights a bit more for killers, they turned on the lights a bit more for survivor which is literally the opposite of what they had to do to make the game mode fun. Why would anyone play this game mode over normal DBD.
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My survivor matches have been plagued with killers camping or returning to hook to tunnel, but my killer matches are pretty much the same as always?
I feel like people are quietly protesting against the change and playing in such a way that fulfills their own pessimistic views about what the change would accomplish, because I genuinely do not notice any difference when I'm playing killer.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3789381#Comment_3789381
I think they are referring to when Wiggling first got changed to Skill Checks and hitting Great Skill Checks would shave a full second off of Wiggling.
I've been trying to suggest them to entirely remove the wiggling minigame and change it for a "Press [key] to stop struggling" toggle just in case you have to turn it off for, idk, pity hatches.
As it is, the minigame does absolutely nothing. Whether you get hooked or not is entirely on the killer and the other survivors' hands, not yours. A 10% extra push to the side doesn't really deserve an entire game mechanic when not even perks interact with it.
Imagine if killers had to press random keys on the keyboard just to not drop a survivor. It's annoying and it doesn't accomplish anything. It's not worth having the mechanic at all.
Wiggling used to be worth it for the shortened wiggle time (and to this day I don't think 1 second less for a flawless minigame was that bad), but now it's just a formality. It's neither fun nor rewarding, so what even is the point.
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I love the forum because people genuinelly tell you, absolutely straight-faced, that survivors deserve to get tunneled and camped if they don't spend a thousand in game hours training against tunneling and camping, and recording themselves to pinpoint their mistakes and comparing strategies with educational DBD youtube videos on how to counter tunneling and camping, just to counter a strategy that the killer did not require even a fraction of the effort to apply, just a "Should I tunnel today?: > [Yes] > [No]" choice they made on the spot.
Like, literally. If a 20 hour killer with no concept of what the DBD community is or what "tunneling" means decides to tunnel, a 1000h survivor has to die if they didn't spend those 1000h training to the level of tournament players. Because, you know, tunneling is not effective against them, so therefore the responsability on countering me is yours. It's not my fault the strategy doesn't require me to know what a hook state is or how to use my character's power. I literally just clicked you to death because you're bad and I'm not lul git gud
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I suppose it's because of being in europe, but I've seen the 100% bonus on the survivor role all the time, it really doesn't matter the time of day.
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Make it show other totems' auras.
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@nam said:
Look at Iron Will, Reassurance, Totems, GenRush, Distortion, WLM, slows, blinds, stuns… I mean, how is that fair when survs has GenRush, Reassurance for anti-camp, OtC, and DS for anti-tunnel, WLM for anti-wounds, Iron Will to counter spirit and nurse, stuns and blinds to bully, while killers are still using Pain Reson, DeadLock and PGTW, which come from 100 years ago and get nerfed 100 times. I mean, surv's perk perfectly counter killer's and advanced in value and mechanics.
How is that even fair…
Counterpoint: To you it feels like survivors have a million different annoying perks because A) They're willing to experiment B) The perks are so bad that switching them around really does nothing to their survival most of the time.
Meanwhile you feel like you have no options because you're afraid of moving away from your very strong perks as you're unwilling to give up even a 1% of your 80% kill rate to experiment with a new build.
A day or two ago I faced a Trickster with aura reading and the perk that transfers his terror radius to a generator, making him essentially a stealth killer with wall hacks. He got a 4k, what's your excuse.
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It would be somewhat fine if the auto-pickup mechanic made it to the game, but as it is, it's just awful gameplay design.
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This is such a non issue, and anyone that plays survivor - hell, anyone that plays killer normally and without facecamping will know this as well.
Anti-facecamp is more useful as a tool for friendly killers to unhook a survivor that others left to die than a tool to counter campers at all.
People who want to win by standing still, still manage to win. It's only marginally more difficult because you have to stand a few steps away from the hook. That's about it. There's no need to give campers an equal attention cake.
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@TragicSolitude said:
I learned not to be a sore winner when I was a kid. One of my favorite Berenstain Bears books taught me that.
A freaking children's book, man. I think people are exposed to too much Twitch and TikTok these days, not enough written media. Reading fiction is good for learning empathy, but not enough people do it. People read non-fiction to learn about the world or for self-improvement, but it's not the same thing.
It also doesn't help that people defend online toxicity and fight against making it a punishable act with "Grow up", "Man up", "ure so sensiteve lul".
Like, dude, I'm here to have fun and make friends. Whether I win or lose doesn't really matter to me. But if you drop me on the floor and desecrate my soon-to-be-corpse for an entire bleedout timer I'm neither having fun nor finding you funny, whereas if you just win I might even say a "Oh, F off" jokingly and say a genuine GG.
I wish more games fought harder against toxicity. In XIV so many people were teabagging dead people when Crystalline Conflict released that they had to add a new rule to clarify that was a bannable offense. Since then that game mode has been so much fun to play, and I've even made friends from that game mode.
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@MrMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786466#Comment_3786466
Many of these problems could be fixed if survivors just had a little more info and a few ways to communicate as a team. Like seeing self unhook progress on the HUD, with a clear indicator when the killer is nearby and it is going up. Or being able to ping perks to make them show up on HUD next to your character for a little bit, and make it easier for your teammates to play around them.
Or finally, the text command system from DBD mobile! You can straight up tell people "I'm getting camped, don't rescue" or "I'm going for the rescue". I don't get why BHVR are so reluctant to improve solo q. Sure it's "gameification" but still, so what? The game isn't about horror once all the players know how to play, then it's about chase and saves and hooks and gens.
We need a "survivor HUD part 2" update. Obviously it won't help matchmaking and bad teammates, but it would make teamwork easier for everyone. Or we could just balance the game around hooks instead of kills, by rewarding spreading hooks in such a way that tunneling actually isn't the best option. Not sure how, but we could always try.
I don't think the Vecna with the item drop build staring at me and realizing I wasn't the player that he hooked and then immediately turning around and leaving me alone without even trying to chase me is a problem of survivors needing more information, I'm gonna be honest.
Like, yeah, making informed decisions is great and all, but at some point we have to admit survivor play is as fun as killers want it to be. I didn't even have that many bad team mates last night; that one match against Freddy went incredibly well, with everyone working towards our goal at almost all times, yet it was awful for all involved because the first player got tunneled out immediately, and me as the last kill had to play the part of Freddy's little xxx toy for his twisted kinks.
Also, as I said, I started to actively try to get killed and the killers wouldn't have it. They'd either slug me to go kill the unhooked player, or straight up gave up on me immediately the moment they saw me run away and went back straight to kill the unhooked player.
I'm starting to think we need mini-Babysitter and once-per-hook disabled-on-heal self-care basekit because this is ridiculous.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786452#Comment_3786452
When enough Survivors stop playing the game and que times go up enough Bhvr will eventually do something about it.
Addiction doesn't work that way.
Besides, you don't understand. 39% escape rate is essentially 50/50 win rate. Some would even say it's even 60/40 favouring survivors. It'S jUsT pUrE mAtH. ThE gAmE nEeDs SuRvIvOrS tO hAvE 30% eScApE rAtE oR nO oNe WiLl WaNt To PlAy KiLlEr.
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@Halloulle said:
idk, if it's that wide spread it seems like an issue with how the survivor match experience is rather than an issue with the players
FFXIV got DDOS attacked again, so I decided to play DBD instead.
Chose to play survivor because I've done all my killer stuff and I wanted to get some progress done on my survivor missions.
My first 2 matches were hard, and I mean HARD tunnelers with moris. We're talking leave to hit someone once, immediately go back to check on hook, go back to hit someone else, immediately return to hook. Impossible to heal, impossible to run away from because bloodstains and scratch marks makes the rescued survivor VERY obvious.
Third match was a Freddy with penti, plaything, devour. Even though we got rid of all the hexes and we did gens at a reasonable pace (there was always either one or two gens going at any given time), again, we couldn't do anything against Freddy teleporting next to the hook and tunneling people out. I was last standing, got hit on the last 0.5% of the gate, Freddy thought it would be funny seeing me struggle, dropped me off, I tried to open the gate, got hit right before the exit, and then I got mori'd because APPARENTLY he also had a mori offering, just in case. He just wanted to live his power fantasy.
Match with a Myers. Sucked someone else. Left them. Somehow decided to turn around and come towards me even though I was on the opposite side of the map and he didn't have tinkerer. He was 99'd. I got insta downed. I got rescued. Myers came back. Downed me again. Back on hook. At this point he decided to let me know he was turning the match into a farm room. 3 of us let ourselves die for him, me included because at this point I didn't give a damn about the game.
One billy match where I got downed first because Tinkerer gave my location away and I got stuck on the geometry of the map. Got to 2 hooks really fast, so I had to hide for the rest of the game. We all escaped but I didn't progress my missions and got, like, 10k for hiding all game.
One Slinger match where I had to ACTIVELY TRY TO DIE against the slinger so he'd stop tunneling people out. I got caught right as the last gen got done. Only one player left, the other was injured and hesitated so he died light next to the exit gate.
A Vecna match with Franklin/Weave. I spent the entire match looking for the items to put them on corners, but some of them I couldn't find. He took the opportunity whenever he had the chance to slug people if he caught glimpse of anyone at two hooks, even if they were half a map away.
And ANOTHER Vecna match right a second ago where the guy just stared at the first player hooked from far away. I timed my rescue impeccably so the other survivor still had a second hook. We didn't get to pop a single gen before they got downed again, and me taking a hit for my team mate only made things worse because they couldn't make enough distance and I couldn't heal fast enough. After the first kill, he hooked me, waited, realized people weren't coming for me, left, hit a player, came back, saw a rescuer, hit them, left them slugged, came back, slugged me and went to look for the last survivor while we both bleeded to death.
I have not skipped a single match from tonight. These are all the matches I've played. I escaped once, one match was a farming room at the end, and the rest was either a slug or a tunnel fest. My mission went from being 1/5 to 3/5. I have NOT completed neither that mission nor my only survivor daily in weeks (escape with a new item).
I physically cannot equip enough perks to counter all of this stuff. I had to give up on the perk set I had to do my mission to try and win once. I ran Babysitter, I ran Borrowed Time, I ran Decisive, I ran Off the record… nothing works. It's miserable through and through, and the ONE match I escaped, I got 10 to 12k bp.
EDIT to redirect it back to the original topic a bit: It's no wonder people give up on first hook. 3 matches like this are enough to drain your will to live, and the forums instead of providing solutions usually say something along the lines of "Hm, maybe you should stop playing the game. It's okay to take a break." I was on a break. I was playing XIV. This is what I return to. It's almost never a good match, it's just a string of this, constantly.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3784856#Comment_3784856
4 gens done doesn't mean the killer lost. Many times I have killed all 4 survivors with 1 gen left. It's 4min... Not that long
Neither does having 2 or 3 survivors remaining on the match mean the survivors have already lost, so the OP saying "What does it matter if the killer is slugging for the 4k, you practically already lost so just tab out and do something else" is a weak way of justifying slugging.
That's why I put the 4 gen example. 4 gens is "practically" the killer losing, so by that standard, if the survivors could stun the killer for the remainder of the game and the only option for the killer was "just tabbing out and doing something else" it would be completely justified.
We should probably introduce something like this and see how engaging of a mechanic that would be.
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@caipt said:
Why do people complain about this so much? What does it matter if the killer is slugging for the 4k, you practically already lost so just tab out and do something else. Thats what I do when it happens to me or when survivors wait at gates. I dont slug for the 4k unless I'm trying to adept, but I swear some people act like slugging for the 4k is the most horrible thing in a survivor can experience. like they cant just… do something else. Nobody is forcing you to sit and stare in boredom at your screen, not like a comeback was on the way anyway.
Imagine if survivors could have 4 gens done and for the last gen they could paralyze the Killer for the rest of the match. I mean, you've already lost, so might as well just tab out and do something else, right?
Slugging as a strategy is terrible game design, not because it tips the scale in your favor, but because to do so it supresses and removes players from the match without letting them move on to the next match. They're forced to stand there and watch as things inevitably go south, which can take either a few seconds or several minutes.
It's the main reason I think you should be able to pick yourself up when you're on the floor and the killer decided to go on an adventure all around the map, as getting slugged with 4 players isn't that bad, but getting slugged once there's at least one less player immediately makes things difficult to recover from, and your only gameplay option while getting slugged is "tab out and wait until the killer inevitably slugs everyone to death".
Not exactly thrilling or healthy gameplay.
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I almost never BM, not even as a response to BM. If I do, I'm probably tired and wanted some chill matches and the enemy player just decided to be an ass and got me in a bad mood.
However, if you're being toxic, don't expect pity from me if you get absolutely wrecked or out-BM'd. I will call you out in end game chat, and I do not care if you're on my team or not. It's not the first time I've been hyping up the killer when I've noticed another survivor being a toxic piece of 💩.
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My stance on everything gameplay related is that at no point should standing still or doing nothing be encouraged or beneficial, but whenever I say that people get really defensive (Mostly because people don't agree with me whenever they can get an advantage by doing nothing).
I've been on the recieving end of both losing 30 minutes because 2 survivors decided not to do gens (and we could only end the game because one survivor tried to give up and I convinced them to rat out and sandbag their team mate) and being unable to outplay a killer because they could camp the exit gates by standing on top of a hill and rapidly flicker their mouse to check both at the same time.
None of those situations should be a thing. If a player is moving and the other is doing nothing, the one doing nothing should be the one getting pressured by the game, not the other way around.
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@Peanits said:
We definitely don't want perks stepping on each other's toes, but I do want to take a second to clarify that Eyes of Belmont and Dark Sense do not do the same thing. Eyes of Belmont reveals the Killer as soon as a generator is completed. Dark Sense, meanwhile, activates when a generator is completed and only reveals the Killer's aura the next time they approach you. While they would effectively activate at the same time if you're being chased, Dark Sense would typically be used as a warning that the Killer is approaching while Eyes of Belmont may reveal that they're busy chasing a Survivor on the other side of the map.
We do have quite a large Perk update coming soon, though! As Nazzzak mentioned, we'll be updating around 20 lesser Perks (mostly lesser used ones) at once. We'll share more on this when the time comes.
I haven't heard about this, but you guys should do this more often. There's nothing funnier than the two weeks after you rework or revamp a good chunk of perks at the same time and suddenly nobody knows what's going on.
And I don't mean duration/cooldown changes, just random effects added to perks. Some of them are awesome and some are atrocious, but that's part of the fun of it.
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They're testing whether BP bonuses have any noticeable effect on queue times or if it's a marginal gain at best.
I'm really not surprised. Survivor queue has been on 400% bonus for the entirety of the event. They probably just realized most people don't really care about BP, which honestly, there's a point you really don't.
I have all my survivors p3'd and I only ever play a handful of killers so I only need to p1 the rest, so BP for me is more a nuisance (I have to spend the next 5 minutes spending 2 million BP on the bloodweb to prevent capping) than an actual reward.
I suppose if they see queue times not budge even without the BP bonus they'll start testing other bonuses, like maybe tome EXP or maybe some new resource which would be a fraction of that.
I'd be surprised if they tried iri shards at all, but that'd be awesome. Playing in the losers queue to get free skins sounds like a fair trade.
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I am setting up my Boon: Shadowstep as we speak and I recommend you do the same.
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Terrible game design. It should be 90 per hook state.
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I suspect part of the reason it's this way it's not just the playerbase being split, but a huge chunk of survivor queue just being friends that want to play together and jumping to play killer because, let's be honest, killer is just way more fun than survivor.
And I think this might be the case because it's odd to me that they'd have to boost the survivor queue bonus to 400%. BHVR even tweeted "That's a lot of killers!" and I doubt this game mode just triggered a bunch of newbies to start playing and suddenly all of them agreed to play killer.
It feels like people are migrating because the only thing tying them to survivor play was the co-op aspect of it.
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@ReviloDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767908#Comment_3767908
Unfortunately it is still somehow not enough to get them to play..
They have to give Auric Cells. We'd see people jumping queues immediately.
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@Jim_Tonic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767182#Comment_3767182
Its impossible due to the pure nature of asymmetrical games. If you make both sides equally strong then kills will average between 0 to 1. Killer role HAS to be opressive in order for the game to be remotely balanced, but we dont even have only an imbalance between killer and survivor, we have an inbalance between swf and soloQ + between the killers themselves.
Then there is far too much RNG involved, if you really would want 50/50 balance maps should not hinder either side, certain perks litteraly should be banned from existing and all the killers would need to be streamlined in some shape or form. It would make for a very boring game that way.I am begging people to understand that a 1v4 game being 50/50 means both sides having equal chance of winning and not 1 killer fighting 4 killers.
Kills will never average 0 or 1. On a 50/50 asymmetrical game, you'll get 2 kills most of the time, 3+ for a win or 1 or less for a defeat.
The only reason this game doesn't balance around 50/50 is because the devs are stubborn and believe in competitive ladder climbing for this game, which makes ties feel like wasted matches, which means they balance around 4ks or 0ks, no middle ground. (And I personally think this is THE WORST option for balance)
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764571#Comment_3764571
There is no reason to announce anything with this Bug.
For a brief moment EGC starts before the game is over. Thats about it. The Bug has 0 impact and it is just people putting on their tinfoil hats that this might hint to a future change.
Why is there always someone extremely annoyed someone else is trying to have one (1) thought on the internet.
OP's like "Do you think this bug could mean they're messing with the hatch mechanic?" which is a very understandable question, and the reply is "NOTHING is happening. It's just a bug. They aren't testing ANYTHING and you're stupid for even suggesting such a thing."
The bug could easily have been introduced because they messed with the hatch code for the 2v8 mode hatch with special rules. I don't think it's related to some hatch rework, but I don't think you have to treat people like they're stupid or delusional just for wondering why the hatch is behaving strangely.
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@Vaimore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767585#Comment_3767585
So then its okay to take away a killers power IF his team mate can make up the difference?? You're a joke.
Don't play a support killer in a team-oriented game mode if you don't want to rely on your team mate.
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We don't need to give everyone aura reading. Demo could, for example, make anyone near a portal oblivious and blind. That could be interesting.