Dreamnomad
Dreamnomad
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@AlsendDrake said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1114764#Comment_1114764
And think you're trying to shift the conversation here.
My point is the devs very much CAN change the purpose of a perk. They have before, funny how you went into a long speil on the flavor text of the perks but ignored the big point I had. How Left Behind's function completely changed. This is just a PTB, so it makes sense the flavor text hasn't been altered yet, and I'd be happy to agree 16m around every hook may be a bit excessive, my point was more along the lines of the devs are fully within their right to change the purpose of a perk, and if they go through with it, I'm sure they'll change the flavor text, as they changed sabo's icon due to traps being unsabotagable, I'm sure they'd be willing and able to change some lines of text too.
I think you are missing my point. The purpose of a perk hasn't changed in any given rework. Sure, it isn't impossible. They can change anything they want in the game. But there isn't a precedent. If you want to talk about Left Behind then we can sure do that. What is the purpose of Left Behind? The purpose is to increase your ability to escape if you are the only survivor remaining. Whether it increases your speed to finish gens, open exit gates or find a hatch isn't the important part. After the end game collapse was introduced, fixing generators when all the other survivors are dead is utterly pointless. The perk had to change. But the purpose didn't. This is super relevant to the change to Hangman's Trick. What is the purpose of Hangman's Trick? The purpose is to be a counter for survivors tampering with your hooks.. in other words sabotage. Does the rework serve that purpose or a different purpose? My argument is that it now serves a different purpose.
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I agree that it needs a buff. Protection hits are a pretty terrible way to earn a free hit. This perk basically says "don't do anything productive most of the game and then you can waste 15 seconds of the killers time". I think a better way to earn tokens would be for every 30 seconds you are chased by the killer. No body can say that you didn't earn it if you kept the killer busy for that long. Or better yet, a mix of a number of achievements. Like 1 protection hit, being chased by the killer for 75 seconds, and 1 safe hook rescue. That would be fair I think.
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I have problems with lots of perks. I'm not too concerned about most of the meta perks. I'm more annoyed by the perks that are never used because they are objectively garbage. The list of perks I consider garbage is fairly large so I'll just pick a couple random ones to throw a highlight on.
Buckle-Up. It's just bad. Since virtually no one uses this perk I'll remind everyone what it does. It makes it so you can tell by the intensity of a survivor's aura in the dying state how much recovery progress they have made. Then if you heal them from the dying state to injured state both you and the survivor you healed can see the killer's aura for 6 seconds.
This perk is so narrow in it's use. You could play 6 consecutive games with this perk and not have a realistic opportunity to use it in one of those games. Survivors should have a pretty good idea how much recovery progress a downed survivor has just by the duration that they have been on the ground. More often than not if the killer slugs a survivor they have a pretty good idea where the slugged survivor is and generally don't go too far from that location. So both the rescuing and rescued survivor probably both have a pretty good idea where the killer is anyway. It's just a poorly designed perk. For killers I'm going to go with Furtive Chase.
Furtive Chase. So much wasted potential. The idea behind rewarding the killer for hooking the obsession and a new obsession arising from whomever rescues the old obsession is really good. This is the kind of behavior that the killer should be rewarded for. But that is just it. There is NO reward! Even if you get the maximum amount of tokens the perk allows it will have virtually no impact on the game. For instance, what if the killer could see the obsession's aura if they are further than 74 meters away and that distance decreases by a reasonable amount for each token earned? But as it stands the only reason killers run this perk is if they are playing a meme build or they are doing a challenge that requires hooking an obsession X number of times.
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If it was added to a perk like Mad Grit then I'd be fine with it. But I don't think it should be base kit. Perks like Flip Flop barely see use and if the killer knew the survivor had it (which they would the second they picked up the survivor) then the perk would lose the already limited value it has.
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It's part of the game. I don't feel any anger to another player putting their own life ahead of mine. If I can see their aura indicating that they have found the hatch while I'm on a hook then I'll just stop struggling and let them have the hatch. I hope other players would do the same for me. There is no sense in giving the killer a free kill.
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@AlsendDrake said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1114279#Comment_1114279
But the change from early game stall to "late game" does change its Identity. Before it was a bit of a time buyer, but now you have to push people off, meaning it completely changed from good for M1 killers to not so much, with it now shining best on those killer's who had the draw of not "needing" Ruin in the first place
Also, DS was changed to anti-tunnel.
But actually, there WAS a perk that had it's ENTIRE Identity changed. Left Behind. Remember, originally it was a gen speed boost to finish the gens and power the gates, but now it's a hatch finder.
I think you are getting a little lost in the weeds here. Read the first line of text in the perks. For example:
Hex: Ruin - A Hex that affects all Survivor's Generator Repair progress.
That is the intended purpose of the perk. That statement is true for old ruin and new ruin. Forget all the late game, early game, blah blah blah stuff. Those are just opinions which are debatable anyway. What is not debatable is that Hex: Ruin affects the survivor's generator repair progress. Old or new. You brought up Decisive Strike so let's look at that one real quick. The first line of text is the following.
Decisive Strike - Using whatever is at hand, you stab at your aggressor in an ultimate attempt to escape.
That statement is true for the original perk and the reworked perk. Now let's look at Hangman's Trick. The first line (reworked) is the following.
Your ingenious modifications to Hooks alert you of tampering.
Now when you actually analyze that statement it isn't quite as clear cut as the other examples. The old version of Hangman's Trick did alert you when survivors tampered with your hooks. The new version would indeed alert you to tampering. But it is doing a whole lot more than just alerting you to tampering of hooks. It is showing you the aura of every survivor on the map within 16 meters of a hook. Bear in mind that most generators are within 16 meters of a hook. So if a survivor happens to be working on a generator on the other side of the map the killer will be able to see that survivor's aura before they have a chance to hide in a locker or move 16 meters away from a hook.
That survivor clearly isn't at risk of "tampering with your hooks" in any meaningful way. So clearly the perk is overperforming. Almost every person who would be running this perk isn't doing it to prevent hook tampering. They are doing it to scout survivors over the entire map. Preventing hook tampering is a distant secondary function. And it's an easy fix too. I'm good with it revealing survivors near hooks but it only makes sense to limit it to the hooks that are within a certain distance of the killer. The closest 3 or 4 hooks would be more than fair. Anything more than that warps the intended purpose of the perk too much.
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Even if the killer was a literal potato that rolled around, I would buy it with shards. I have plenty saved up and I'm a bit of a completionist.
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@AlsendDrake said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1110011#Comment_1110011
I mean, this is just a PTB. They can totally completely change a perks Identity.
I mean, they DID change ruin from an early game stall to a "Late Game Hex" so there's no reason Hangman's Trick can't change too.
But the identity of Hex: Ruin did not change. It was a perk designed to slow generator progress before the change and it is still a perk designed to slow generator progress. Plenty of perks have been changed over time but I can't think of a single instance where the primary purpose of a perk changed. The change to Hangman's Trick fundamentally changes it's purpose.
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What are you even talking about? The "soul" of this game is constantly changing. And that's a good thing. If they didn't constantly innovate then the game would grow incredibly stale and no one would be playing the thing. Think about all the changes made to the game over the last couple years that you actually like. Someone out there disagrees with you and thinks some of those changes shouldn't have been made. Some people are always innately going to oppose change. It's scary and different. But it's also exciting and new. Do I agree with every change made to this game? No. I vehemently oppose a number of those changes. But the game is without question better off today than it was 2 years ago.
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@Mikeasaurus said:
I like the idea, but instead of anywhere in the enviroment, why not the hooks themselves. Within a certain distance, he can grappel a hook and pull himself there faster. A negative could be that by doing this, it destroys the hook for X seconds.
I like this idea too. I doubt they can implement and test it before the killer goes live. But it feels like something that should be added later.
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The David did seem to have bizarre amount of resistance to being pulled in. There should be a limit to how much resistance a survivor can put up. I'm okay with the body blocking to save a friend. That's fairly difficult to pull off. From the video the killer didn't look terribly weak but the person playing the killer made a number of strategic mistakes. He took far too many long range speculative shots. He also played a little "too nice" if he intended to win. Like at the end he had a survivor hooked right next to the final gen that needed to be done with like 95% progress on it. He didn't need to hard camp but by running to the other side of the map to chase the bait survivor he might as well have opened the exit gate himself.
I would like to see some small buffs for the killer. Like the killer has an ultra rare add on that makes long range hits give the survivor exposed. That feels like it should be baseline. Reward high risk shots deserve high reward. I would also like to see the base speed to reload increased. Considering the one shot and reload mechanic it feels a little too punishing to miss. Those would be my recommendations.
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So this is where you are going to draw the "line in the sand" so to speak? I haven't even seen where they put the breakable wall but I wouldn't quit the game if they just deleted the killer shack altogether. That seems like a funny thing to take such a strong stance. But if you are so emotional about what is frankly a small thing then it's probably better that you leave the game now. It's constantly changing. If this has got you worked up then some future change is bound to enrage you.
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Try playing a few games using the add on before deciding that it is unfair. Wall hacks are pointless if you can't run worth a damn in a chase in a map with few walls. Try that add on at a map with corn for instance and tell me how strong it is. It's only really good on maps with lots of line of sight blockers like indoor maps such as Lerys or Game. Anywhere else, if the survivors have half a brain they can figure out what is going on and easily play around it. If you are a survivor going against Shape with scratched mirror just don't bother hiding. Run around or heal in the most open areas.
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That seems more like a coincidence than a pattern. A pattern would suggest that they intentionally do it. They release licensed content as the opportunities arise. There are only so many opportunities for licensed characters that we as a player-base would even want to see. I'm at the point where I don't care if they ever release another licensed killer. Hell, I would even prefer that they don't so I can get the characters with shards instead of money.
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Dead hard is fine.
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I didn't watch the whole thing but I saw a few minutes of it and I don't see the problem. The killer wasn't played very well and he was still hooking the survivors plenty of times.
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PC player I assume. This is a perfect example of why I never want crossplay.
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That's actually a pretty fun idea.
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Let's put it this way. They are less useful. If they get the sabotage change done right then it'll probably be more useful to save survivors then to get gens done.
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@[Deleted User] said:
It's 100% going to be nerfed.
Yup. No way this goes live.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1109924#Comment_1109924
If it was only meant to counter sabo hooks, it wouldn't have been designed to work with every hook.
That makes absolutely no sense. Here, let me remind you of the first line of text in the perk: "Your ingenious modifications to Hooks prevent tampering and permanent damage." That is the purpose of the perk. The very nature of the way hooks work is going to change in the next patch.
Since hooks will automatically respawn after 30 (or whatever short period of time is decided) seconds the functionality of this perk will change. But the purpose of the perk remains the same. To "prevent tampering" of hooks. It is not intended to make every hook on the map a surveillance camera to spot survivors. Trust me. There is no way this perk will remain the way it currently is on the PTB.
And it really shouldn't. It would be utterly broken and be used by every killer and not for the reason the perk was designed.
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Your logic is deeply flawed. If someone uses For The People right in front of you then you can just knock them back to the ground! Or you could hit the person that used For The People. Either way you'll have multiple injured survivors in close proximity to you. This is going to be a non-issue.
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Lol, there is absolutely no way this thing doesn't change guys. Just get that into your heads right now so you aren't disappointed later. And it should change. The perk is designed to be a counter to survivors tampering with hooks but it is doing so much more now. What they should change it to do is keep the range and aura reading but limit it to the closest 4 hooks to the killer when a survivor is picked up. It will still be useful but it won't be broken. And if you think every hook on the map giving 16 meters worth of aura reading isn't broken then I don't think you can be reasoned with.
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I get where you are coming from. This is the kind of thread that will inevitably receive some "get gud" type posts. But there really is a balance issue against competent survivors and a majority of the killers these days. I believe that there should be some kind of winning side handi-cap built into this game. It is just so snowbally for both sides with little in the way of comeback possibilities. God forbid you try to set up as a killer (trapper/hag) or actually try and sneak or stalk (shape/ghost face) before 2 gens pop. I would like to see map portals or some other means for killers to navigate the map. Breakable walls is a nice concept but we'll just have to see how much of an impact it has.
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The only thing that I think should be changed about flashlights isn't even a direct change to flashlights. I think if a killer is stunned or blinded during the pick up animation then the killer should be forced to drop the survivor. The window of time to actually blind is too small. Trying to get those flashlight save challenges done is an absolute nightmare.
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Hmmm, sounds like a missed opportunity doesn't it? That wouldn't even have to be a unique feature of an add on. You could tack it onto one of the weaker themed addons. In general, it wouldn't be that big of a deal since if the survivor is further than 18 meters the killer probably won't make the shot anyway and if they do there is a higher risk the chain will be broken before the survivor is reeled in. But it could make for some fun videos of actual successful snipes.
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When I saw this thread I thought it would be asking for survivors to be able to break portals with a flashlight which I am strongly against. But if you just want to be able to find an unused portal location with a flashlight then I'm all for that. You'll just burn out your flashlight for no reason! Even if you "activate" it so it can be interacted with and destroyed that is still a win for the killer.
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@Almo said:
18 meters from the tip of the weapon.
Are there any add ons that extend the range?
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I'm 80% certain that you are 80% wrong.
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Lol, should be the closest 4 hooks to the killer not the entire map.
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@darktrix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1108134#Comment_1108134
As far as not needing special perks and just situational awareness... Well toss in the fact that three are probably going to be distracting the killer while one is always on gens - now you got two survivors intercepting hooks for sabo while one is getting carried. Throw in a body block and breakout perk, now you aren't even going to make far to the first hook, and definitely not to any second hooks. Even a determined group of survivors right now can make life difficult reaching any hook without special perks, situational awareness is only going to tell you that you are screwed.
Dude, that is magical christmas land type thinking. It just isn't real. I have never, NEVER gone up against a group of survivors acting the way you are describing. But even in this hypothetical magical world you are describing, I would still be happy to be the killer in that situation. That means I'm getting free hits and survivors aren't working gens. They might be able to occasionally stop a hook that way, but I'm going to win by the end of the match.
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There are so many answers that killers have available to them. Numerous perks counter this including Iron Grasp, Agitation, Mad Grit and Hangman's Trick. But you don't even need to equip special perks. Just plain old situational awareness goes a long long way. There is almost always 2-3 hooks within range when you down a survivor. If you see a survivor running to a hook while you are carrying another survivor then go to another hook! Sometimes, just sometimes, you'll get outplayed. That's how the game is supposed to work.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1105433#Comment_1105433
Well, he is arguing that someone is getting outplayed by losing access to the objective because someone held M1 for 2.5s. @_@
But it's not that simple is it? When a killer downs a survivor there is typically 2-3 hooks that the killer could carry the survivor to. So the potential would-be savior has to be both nearby when a survivor goes down but also has to get to and sabotage the hook before the killer carries the survivor to it. That isn't as simple as just holding m1 for 2.5s. The killer also has plenty of outplay potential and plenty of counters. Iron grasp, agitation, mad grit or hangman's trick all work. Just plain old situational awareness goes a long way too.
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Deathslinger is a little weird. I don't think anyone could have guessed the name from the teaser. People certainly did guess it would be a killer like Scorpion from Mortal Combat though. "Get over here!". I wouldn't mind if it was changed to The Bounty Hunter or something though.
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@memiieko said:
It's ridiculously powerful with SWF's; fin
Also since anyone with a toolbox can break it in like 2.5 seconds since they're all 99'd basically and BHVR literally got rid of the set up does anyone know how fast they come back?
And you know this because you have played a dozen or so games against SWF teams using that strategy? No? Because I think you are probably jumping to conclusions here.
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You are trading health states and getting broken status. Seems pretty hard to abuse. Definitely won't be meta. The more I think about it, it's not even good. Even if it didn't have broken, I don't think I'd use it. Why injure yourself to heal someone else? No thanks. I'm not that nice.
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That is a pretty good combo. I don't know if I would want to give up half my build for it... but it's pretty good.
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Is it just me or does it seem like you almost want the chain to be broken by the survivor? If the survivor breaks the chain then they are injured and broken. If you reel the survivor to you and hit the survivor then they are just deep wounded. Sure, you are stunned but it won't be long.
Edit: I misread it. It's deep wound either way.
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@Almo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1104311#Comment_1104311
When you start, you commit. Then you make the decision: "Can I finish this before he gets here?" If you could keep progress, we're back to 99% hooks and tap-drops. This is what we are trying to get away from.
I think you are misunderstanding me. I'm fine with committing to the sabotage. What I'm saying is that if I see my buddy getting carried to a hook and I run to the hook and start breaking it the killer shouldn't be able to hit me and reset all my progress. If I'm 2.25 seconds into the break and the killer hits me then I should be able to finish that last quarter second and run. Otherwise the whole thing is pointless and the killer gets a free hit on me and still hooks the survivor. If you break the hook too soon then the killer just changes direction and hooks the survivor on a different hook and again it was all pointless. If the killer hits me and it doesn't interrupt me then that is fine too.
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@Almo said:
One detail that was not in the notes. We can't put everything in there, or it would be a novel. If you stop a hook sabo partway through, you lose your progress and have to start over. So it's only 2.5 seconds, but you are committed if you want it to finish.
I think this is a mistake. If you are trying to break a hook the killer is carrying a survivor to and the killer hits you, it shouldn't reset all your progress. You should be able to finish the break and run away.
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Sabotage is getting a buff not a nerf. You aren't going to be able to make a "safe zone" to run to anymore but if you get to the hook the killer is carrying a survivor to first then you'll be able to break it. It's like all hooks are 90% sabotaged. And you can break a hook from any angle. You don't have to be right in front of it waiting to get hit.
Sabotage use to be a trap for survivors. It was never a good strategy. You waste a bunch of time prepping an area of the map and even if you successfully render a portion of the map as unhookable that still leaves survivors slugged and not working on gens and the hooks respawned eventually anyway. It was just a bad strategy.
Sabotage rework fixes all of those problems. It's actually pretty genius. No prep work. No slugging.
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No thanks. I don't want to waste my bloodpoints on this. I'd prefer to use offerings that give me more bloodpoints.
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No thanks.
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That is absolutely bonkers! No. Just no. There is no point at all to DC penalty if they gave you 6 free DC's a day! About the only thing I think they should do is to allow you to gain a "player in good standing" status if you don't DC, suicide on hook in the first 3 minutes as a survivor or camp as a killer for 10+ consecutive games which would give people a 15% bonus to all bloodpoints earned. Once the player has good standing status if they maintain it for at least 10 games then they can earn ONE disconnect with no penalty or loss of good standing. That means for every 20 good games the player has they can have one disconnect. That would be fair.
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@StrainedSky said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/097/OWMRBJFSOT1F.jpeg
This forum each time something gets announced be it killer or survivor. 😂🤣 Especially without even seeing it first.
So true! Killers seem to be thinking this is their future:
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Definite over-reaction. It's not like killers will be able to knock down all the walls on the map! I expect there will be roughly half a dozen walls killers can break and they will be specifically chosen to not be game breaking. Don't lose your mind just yet.
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The Developer Update looks really interesting. Those are very substantial changes! You are taking Sabotage in a much different direction than I would have expected but I really like where your head is at. Breakable walls sound awesome. I kind of hope you put breaking walls on some kind of cooldown or killers will just break all the walls early in the game and the map might as well not have had those walls in the first place. I think it's great either way. Plague and Trapper changes are both great. I'm really looking forward to this update.
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Why be inconvenienced at all? Should be 1 second for first DC. It's not like you are inconveniencing 4 other players by DC'ing. Oh wait.... you ARE inconveniencing 4 other players! That's 4 other players that will get less value from their add ons, offerings and most importantly time. If the average game is 10 minutes long then you are costing 40 minutes worth of inconvenience by DC'ing. Therefore you should get 40 minute ban for first DC and add 40 minutes for each DC after that. Consider yourself getting off easy with 5 minutes.
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Where is the so-called "proof"?
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@Dr_Loomis You are just being paranoid. They aren't leaving just to screw you out of 250 bloodpoints. They are just leaving. You should be grateful.