Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629387#Comment_3629387
That is pretty much my point though friend. The survivors have a shared objective, which if completed gets them out of the trial... however just because the trial asks you to solve the same problem, and the most efficient way of doing that is to work together, doesn't mean you're necessarily allies.
If I take a good Saw V (I think) trap as an inspiration for an example, if there are 6 of us in a room, and the trial states we have to fill are container with 8 pints of blood to escape, we can of course all give a pint and a third each to escape, all of us would survive... but you having to slice a saw blade into your hand to do it is a different bag... Rather than maiming everyone, and equal option is to kill the one person in the group noone likes, and give all their blood, we still escape.
Everyone in that scenario has a different plan for how they would want to face that trial. Maybe 1 person refuses to do it outright and threatens violence... but if not, most people would probably take the even share solution... but there is always the chance that someone doesn't actually commit, hoping someone else takes up the slack for them... you can't trust everyone to play the game honourably... and you have yourself effectively a prisoners dilemma. You have to trust everyone else will play with the same mindset as you, and there is no guarantee they will... so do you break the rules first to preempt them doing it first?
What form does this take in DBD? DBD has hatch, DBD has perks to hide with. There is nothing stopping you from leading the killer to allies on gens to get away themselves... just because you wouldn't, doesnt mean people don't do it. This might sound unreasonable, but a more common scenario is if a player dies early and you're at 4 gens. You're in trouble... but if you don't get found and stay healthy, you can possibly still survive. Do you try for gens to get everyone out? Or do you focus on keeping yourself alive?
Regardless, I've seen players in SoloQ where I genuinely didn't understand how the hell they made such a bad mistake that screwed me up so badly... but with this new way of thinking... it's possible it was entirely deliberate. Just today I was left to die on hook totally uncontested against Twins... with 3 gens to go and 1 player dead. This seems like hanging me out to dry, which it is, but when you look at it as that was likely that players best option to remain undetected and get out alive, and acknowledging the pragmatism removes the annoyance.
I would still try to save my teammates at all times personally... but its suprising how accepting that their actual goal is to try to escape alive themselves, and not to expect help actually removes a lot of animonsity.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629423#Comment_3629423
Thanks! Was a lot of fun, and I feel your mindset is the real place where this game has fun.
You sound like a blast to play against!
I try to play largely similarly, lots of chases, builds that are a little out there and unexpected to catch people off guard.
I don't like to single out a player or try to gun them out of the game, I'll almost always wait until I'm 6 hooks in before I sacrifice, and I'll usuually give everyone one freebie where I won't go mean. I'll accept one flashlight save, or 1 instance of a death hook survivor tripping up under my feet, or 1 instance of saboing or unhookimg under my nose... but once your ticket is spent, there is no mercy for any further infractions. 😁
More often than not once I've gotten all my hooks, I'll let 1, sometimes 2 survivors go.... the kill count doesn't mean anything to me next to just feeling like I put in a good and exciting killer performance. 😁🤘
Regardless, I've seen players in SoloQ where I genuinely didn't understand how the hell they made such a bad mistake that screwed me up so badly... but with this new way of thinking... it's possible it was entirely deliberate. Just today I was left to die on hook totally uncontested against Twins... with 3 gens to go and 1 player dead. This seems like hanging me out to dry, which it is, but when you look at it as that was likely that players best option to remain undetected and get out alive, and acknowledging the pragmatism removes the annoyance.
you were left to die on hook because you did not have kindred. the team disorganized enough to send no players to unhook you. If a killer has camping tendencies then a survivor team might purposely leave you on hook till end of second stage. the other possibilities is your mmr being low enough that there is skill issue with saving other survivors. Some of it could be derived from killer pressuring entire team such as 1 person slugged, 2 people being chased and 1 person doing a gen at far end of the map.
As for your analogy, i do not see link in analogy towards dbd game. The dev somewhat made sure that playing selfish is as unrewarding as possible because leaving your teammates to die makes it difficult to escape. Funny enough, you can make builds such as Wake up+Sole survivor+Left behind with a key to increase escape chances in end game however i doubt this is how the majority of survivor players initially play the game.
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@UndeddJester said:
This game should be fun...
I've recently had an epiphany about DBD... and it's reshaped how I think about everything in this game. I'm primarily sharing because, this series of thoughts has softened the blow on a lot of the more annoying aspects of this game, that I frequently see complained about... There is a fair amount of bittnerness and burn out for people on DBD, and my reason for sharing this epiphany is in the hope of reducing the frustrations a little for people to enjoy it again.
I do hope if nothing else, you enjoy reading my thought process on this topic as much I have writing it. 🤘
To begin....
There are a lot of things people complain about, and most of them stem from the same simple point, that 4 players on comms in the same team will simply be a much better coordinated and organised than a team of 4 players who aren't... and organised SWF's will give a Killer a much harder time... but outside of that, there are a few common complaints you tend to see and for the most part agree with:
- Why does the 50\50 hatch gamble still exist? Why make it so killers have to slug for the 4k?
- Why is suiciding on hook in SoloQ something that seems to not garner much attention?
- Why are there limited methods to deal with Rat survivors who hide and refuse to take chase all game, and no punishments for sand baggers?
- Why does the Killer seem to fall so short at the highest levels of play vs. a coordinated team in majority of cases?
- Why does pipping become so hard in the iri ranks? Why can I depip, even if I "win"?
- Why is tunneling\camping seem to be something BHVR isn't intent on limiting?
- Why are very short games via gen-rush with powerful toolboxes still such a prominent issue?
- Why did BHVR state they have no plans for basekit perks to help soloQ because soloQ are lone wolves?
- Why is the disparity between SoloQ and SWF left so unchecked?
All of these things seem antithetical to a 4 player team trying to survive together against a powerful killer able to match them... Why have a coin flip escape for 1 player if the team is losing? Why does players not engaging in the 4vs1 game via suicides, ratting, sandbagging or tunneling, camping not seem a big deal? Why are SWFs and full teams of toolboxes so strong compared to the killer, but SoloQ are not on the same playing field?
It started with post by Mandy in response to why there weren't more in game tools for SoloQ to match the level of SWF.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612909#Comment_3612909
The image is thus:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WKSM22XDEACB/image.png
She pointed out that in the game store, there is no implied cooperation between survivors... you can choose not to work with your team. Such a seemingly benign sentence that I didn't take too seriously, but the more thought I lend to this sentence, the more it keeps affecting how I look at DBD... and it's redefined what I've come to understand about what the objectives of the game actually are.
It's not enough to revolutionise your thought on its own however, so I started looking for other evidence, and it came in the form of bloodpoints, and importantly how bloodpoints are awarded... and this is where I think I finally get a lot of the decisions in this game...
The survivors are all primarily supposed to escape at all costs, while the killer is meant to farm them for fear...
The Survivors primary objective is not for the most players to survive... it is to deny the killer as much as possible, but most importantly ESCAPE YOURSELF.
For survivor your biggest blood point scores comes from repairing gens with great skill checks (300 per and max of 1250 for gens), rescuing other surivors from hooks (1000 or 1500 in EGC), evading the killer in chase (40 p/s) particularly with stuns/blinds (1000/500). Finally... escaping the trial for a massive 7'000 points.
This 7'000 points for surviving can't be understated, no matter how many survivors you save, you can even get 2 up off the ground, 1 off the hook at end game collapse, blind and stun the killer 3 times, and loop him for 2 minutes and get out of gate... and it would still not match the 7000 you would have gotten for just leaving...
The Killers primary objective is not just to 4k.... it is to cause as much pain, fear and crushed hope before killing all 4 survivors as they possible can.
For killer your biggest blood point scores comes from injuring survivors (especially in combo with your power), chasing all the different survivors reguarly (4 times each for peak efficiency), getting as many hooks as possible, killing all survivors with a mori or sacrificing when the end game collapse has started.
This is why if you camp/tunnel but get a 4k, you don't usually get as many points as 10 hooks with a 2k. Every hook on a surivor is points for chasing(400) / hitting(2x300) / hooking (200 + 500) / using power to slow, stun, spook survivors (varied). The entity summon/sacrifice reward is only 200, if you camped/tunneled and forced hook stages, you are actively missing out on getting all your bonuses for chases and hits through 2 health stages... On average your typical hook should net you roughly 2500 points at least...
If you manage to kill all 4, your bonus for doing so is only 2500... The 2-4 hook stages you may deny yourself from Survivor hooks (assuming you could dominate and win completely) is losing anywhere between 4000 and 10'000 points... ofc that decision may be taken out of your hands, and you risk getting nothing, that is balance that must be struck... but your goal is not to 4k perce'... it's to get as many hooks and procs of your power as you possibly can... however you do it.
Now it makes a lot more sense...
When you look at the game through this lens, suddenly a lot of things that we all complain about start to make a lot more sense.
- Hatch lottery and slug for the 4k? Survivors are not necessarily working together, the survivor could and SHOULD abandon their teammate to save themselves. If the killer can't use altruism to secure their forth kill, they have to hunt while their quarry hides....
- Suicide on hook? The survivors are not a team working together... if 1 player is useless to your goal of escaping, your new objective is to either work doubly hard to get out... or outlive the other survivors... but if you give in too early and try to just go for the escape, the other survivors may do the same and you put the game on a dice roll of who gets found first. The game is still not over...
- Rat survivors/ sandbaggers not a problem? See the above point. You may even decide to lure the killer to that Rat player, capitalising on the Killer's primary objective. Sole Survivor remaining as it is suddenly makes far more sense.
- SWFs extremely tough at high level? Just like real life, people who know each other and work together will do better than people who don't. SWFs are deprioritising the main Survivor bonus, and changing the game to where Killer's can use their altruism against them. Generally speaking this down grade doesn't give enough of a trade off for the benefits it brings, but the whole dynamic of the game is different because unlike at DBD base... the Survivors now actually ARE a team trying to get everyone out alive, and strong teamwork should and usually does prevail.... but a bad mistake and it can all go badly wrong very quickly. High level teams don't tend to and can't be forced to make the bad mistake the killer needs, hence the disparity.
- Strong toolbox teams? These still exist because survivors are not necessarily working together, so same as above, when a team of survivors is pulling in the same direction, the strategy should be, and is very strong. Again strong teamwork should, and usually does prevail... but if the killer manages to guess, build for and break their plan, it can quickly snowball against less coordinated teams.
- Tunneling/camping not a problem? The killer is already actively limiting their points scoring doing this, and by extension their ability to rank up. They are not scoring chases, they are not scoring more hits, and they are not working towards maximum hooks. This is caused by the above points with SWFs and the need to use SWF altruism against them... SWFs will win more often, so as a solo, you get the same stick by proximity. Again your goal is to consider how best to escape for yourself. Have you got/do you use the time to do generators while the killer isn't chasing? Do you let your other teammates try to save, and let the whole team die to save yourself? Do you join in the attempts to save to keep that player alive to buy more gen time for you in the long haul? If you are the tunneled player, can you do anything to extend your time alive for the chance to escape? Can you get hatch or get body blocked to gate? It's a crap question to answer... but it is a question that you still need to answer.
- Depip even if I win? In both cases, rushing to game completion denies you chances to score your other objectives. For killers you simply haven't satisfied your condition of causing as much pain and fear as possible, but for survivors you haven't denied the killer enough to rank up... but if you escaped, you will very rarely depip as you are still within your primary goal.... but if you died... you failed your goal and are much more likely to depip, even if you did well.
The true disparity of SoloQ and SWF
- No further plans for SoloQ buffs? SoloQ is chaotic and a different experience to SWF. You can't trust your team mates, both in skill and intent... just like real life... this is the experience the game is trying to capture. Your goal is to SURVIVE... how you do it is up to you, and you shouldn't be railroaded into supporting the survivor team with teammwork buffs... because that is not necessarily YOUR best chance of survival.
The reason this disparity between SWF and soloQ is allowed is because SoloQ is not SWF. I know that sounds stupid... but really think about... you don't know who you can trust to have your back in this survival horror game. Your goals with other survivors broadly align... but ultimately, you goal is to survive, and you can never fully trust other SoloQ players to save you, either by skill or inclination.
Whether we like it or not... this game is not a true 4 vs 1 unless you're in a SWF... it is 4 players each trying to win their trial against 1 player... and that is not the same thing. The actual game for you as a survivor is to not die, by any means necessary...
Final Word
I hope you enjoyed the read. This was just an interesting thought that reminded me of the Co-Petative genre I've seen in board games.... remember no good deed goes unpunished...
Since having the above revalations, a lot of the above things haven't irritated me nearly as much... I'm at peace with pretty much all of them, and it's made my gaming experience a little more enjoyable overall.
See you in the fog! 😁
She pointed out that in the game store, there is no implied cooperation between survivors... you can choose not to work with your team. Such a seemingly benign sentence that I didn't take too seriously, but the more thought I lend to this sentence, the more it keeps affecting how I look at DBD... and it's redefined what I've come to understand about what the objectives of the game actually are.
That response really does not make much sense because the survivor generator objective is joined objective. you can't just do 1 gen and suddenly open exit gate for yourself leaving the rest behind. You have to finish all 5 gens. Those 5 gen are expected to be done across your team. So just based off objective, your heavily enforced to play as a team. You can try hide till very end but you get reduced score for escaping as 1 survivor.
SWFs extremely tough at high level? Just like real life, people who know each other and work together will do better than people who don't. SWFs are deprioritising the main Survivor bonus, and changing the game to where Killer's can use their altruism against them. Generally speaking this down grade doesn't give enough of a trade off for the benefits it brings, but the whole dynamic of the game is different because unlike at DBD base... the Survivors now actually ARE a team trying to get everyone out alive, and strong teamwork should and usually does prevail.... but a bad mistake and it can all go badly wrong very quickly. High level teams don't tend to and can't be forced to make the bad mistake the killer needs, hence the disparity.
soloq does not want to make mistakes. they're just forced into poor efficiency/bad plays due to lack of information. SWF will not make mistakes because they have correct information to always make the best play at any given moment therefore SWF only mistake is poor looping/Chase.
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@Chaosrider said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3628860#Comment_3628860
But MMR doesnt work properly at all cause the stats used are unreasonable for such a game and the matchmaking is all over the place at times, cause of backfill lobbies. And those occur by far to frequently as killers lobby shop the hell out of this game. You dont have to explain how mmr works in other games. mmr in dbd doesnt work like this. this is not your everyday shooter.
mmr works properly. you do not need understand why it works.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3628802#Comment_3628802
My main thing is provide better visual and auditory clarity.
If you look at a Killer like Knight (which I am aware is a weaker Killer), they have an animation for sticking their sword into the ground and an audio cue (the audio for the sword being planted + the wisp audio).
Killers like Wraith have their Bell audio, the crackling when uncloaking, and visual clarity as to when they uncloak and cloak (hitting the bell and becoming more visible).
Maybe an animation can play to indicate when the Spirit starts to phase, and having better auditory indicators for phasing. As for the Killer POV, visual aids can be used to help Spirit a bit more, Scratchmarks can become a lot more visible or providing Killer's Instinct post-phase to help with tracking after she is done with her power.
It isnt much but it's something, and it still keeps her core concept without reworking her entire power.
The spirit stands-still for 1.5 second to begin the power. as for audio clarity, the game expect you to have proper hearing when playing as the spirit. the game cannot account for disabilities. your free to play the game on your accord with said disabilities however those disabilities may impair your performance in the game.
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another terribly designed mechanic. The dev probably dislike that trapper is good at camping basement, so they put drawback where you trap yourself in basements. Lots of mechanics related killer drawback are invented for survivor's amusement/killers power-level decrease.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3628770#Comment_3628770
but it cant hurt to create a synergy with another perk that is not that popular aswell.
absolutely incorrect, inner strength dont need a buff.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3628778#Comment_3628778
point being buffing inner strength wont change that.
no but it improves an underwhelming perk.
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@Chaosrider said:
Reason: Low-MMR-Hell is the worst experience you can have. Matchmaking with MMR is abysmal.
I cant bear that MMR-matchmaking nonsense anymore. The games are 90% the same: playing as duo and getting matched with two randoms that have not enough skill to last 10s in a chase or make the worst possible decisions. The killer is most likely tunneling or using other circumventing playstyle. Or you get those 10k rush-hit blights and undefeated nurses that stomp anyone in sight, even though youre in low-mmr-hell. And you cant get any mmr points due to mates ruining the game if not the killer already does by tunneling you out. If i have to deal with annoying killer plays, at least give me mates that may be able to do something about it. So it needs to be reset frequently at least if you still cling to this mess of a system.
Also those backfill lobbies are just the worst. Escpecially if new players get backfilled into higher lobbies, youre just scaring newbies away and make veteran players suffer.
But to be honest, the whole MMR systems needs to be reworked. It was unncessary to begin with as rank system was way more detailed in representing skill. MMR like this (kill/escape) has no reason to be in an asymetrical game like DBD.
that is not really possible assuming mmr works properly. if your low MMR and you constantly die, you will not be matched against unwinnable nurses and unwinnable blights because they'll be too high for your MMR bracket. If you do get matched with Nurse or Blight, they'll likely be downright terrible like nurses that miss almost every blink or miss every blight rush.
Being low MMR on survivor means you'll face bad killer players and you'll equally get equally skilled survivors as yourself. you get bad vs bad.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3628485#Comment_3628485
Bloodlust came about to help killers deal with infinities. BHVR said it was a temporary measure installed while they dealt with broken maps. But IIRC, when they tried to get rid of it (along with the last true infinite?) there was so much outcry they just left it and said they would continue to monitor it or something. I imagine with the new direction they’re taking with map design the bloodlust mechanic will eventually be removed.
This temporary measure became permanent measure for killer to get near free hits over-time regardless of how crap they play. if your good at looping as survivor, you get punished. If your bad at survivor then you won't last long enough to trigger BL.
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@Emeal said:
The reason boons are underwhelming isnt because they lack synergy with Inner Strength. Its mostly because they are too difficult to use, You dont need to buff one of the Survivors strongest perks and hope that makes boons more viable.
bHVR just need to take a big critical look at boons and make gameplay related changes to them.
the whole point of boons is suppose to be that they're high skill-cap to use but get good rewards when activated. it is meant to be high-risk, high reward. now they're high risk, low reward. as a result, nobody using them. the reward is just not good enough.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
I doubt this would make Boons viable again. All Boons were garbage already, except CoH. And BHVR nerfed it to ground as well. And upcoming Boon perk just show us they are fine with garbage perks.
And honestly i hate Inner Strength. I prefer my teammates to do gens instead of wasting time with dull totems.
it would make COH viable because of 14 second self-care. I still think many survivor wouldn't use it though because the perk expense of two perk slots. I would still rather use self-care+botany knowledge with grey med-kit with low rarity charges add-on then use this boon inner strength boon synergy.
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@Botiz said:
I got this map twice within three games earlier today and my god is it miserable.
Not sure on the size, but it feels huge, the distance between gens can be awful at times, and not to mention the absurd amount of safe pallets that survivors can just chain together back to back to back. There's always like 4 pallets within like a 24m radius at any given time, unless you're in a deadzone at the very edge of the map
Suffers from one of the original issues that Borgo had
ironically enough, the map has not that many safe pallets. It is just big. you can win every chase very quickly as killer but the map is not really 3 gen due to the size.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3628245#Comment_3628245
No.
A Killer should not be guaranteed a hit on a Survivor no matter their skill difference.
It lacks any meaningful counterplay and is EXACTLY why old Legion was so ass. Was he going to win? No. Was he going to chase and down people with nothing they could possibly do about it? Yes.
Having anti-loop is fine. Being an anti-loop Killer primarily is not fine.
then explain bloodlust mechanic in the game. This game has bloodlust 1, bloodlust 2 and bloodlust 3. each level of bloodlust supposedly increases likelihood for a survivor to get hit. The game is definitely designed around guaranteed hits for killers.
every killer gets punished. the metric for how they get punished is chase time. The longer a chase is extended, the more likelihood there is for killer to lose in gen-time. even though trickster supposedly doesn't get punished for missing, if his chases are like 60 second long, that is still getting punished.
you can have nemesis who misses 1 whip and gets down in 30 seconds but nemesis who misses is still punished less then trickster because 30 second is lower chase time then trickster who had 60 second chase.
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@Seraphor said:
The problem is that many of the 'weaker' killers are noob stompers and really excel in lower mmr.
There could be ways to rework them so that's not the case, but that's part of the reason why killers like Trapper, Pig and Freddy can't be straight up buffed too much.
but billy is noob-stomper as well. he has unlimited instant down, unlimited mobility, 1 second pallet breaks and the ability to outplay undropped pallets with curving. None of these factors prevented him from receiving the upcoming rework.
OP is right but BVHR is pretty slow at reworking killers. you have to be very patient.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3627395#Comment_3627395
Yes, I understand the history of their design, but I disagree with your implication that the endurance effects and anti-slug on MFT and WGLF are side effects/tacked on, not primarily what you use the perks for. We all know how impactful endurance is; you do, if you have any sense and you can, play for it.
- WGLF is a pretty cut and dry anti-slug perk, it literally heals downed survivors faster, with an additional effect to protect that allybif you manage to get them up.
- MFT is the special case, as you can also get your speed via other means, but even with its original design, the endurance when healing an ally is still quite clearly anti slug.... you can even get it again by healing the slugged player to full. Your typical scenario is gonna be taking a hit on route to a slugged ally on 95%, finishing off the 0.8s to heal them, and getting endurance for when the killer follows you.
Considering WGLF, MFT and old Buckle Up, all 3 of them offer some form of anti-slug, each with different effects. How good they are is free to debate, but all 3 offered 3 different options.
None of them were popular/chosen for their anti-slug qualities for the same reason Tenacity and even Unbreakable isn't popular. Even if the effect is strong.... the perk does nothing if the killer doesn't Slug. This is the only scenario any of them can be used. Realistically you're not very likely to pick up a survivor unless the killer goes on a long slug spree, and the survivor makes a lot of recovery before you try, even with WGLF.
So the scenario where all 3 perks get triggered: -
- The killer has to slug for long enough to make it there/the survivor to recover.
- The survivor has to be complete healing before/as the killer comes back, and be ready to take the hit.
This is where old Buckle Up drops off. The need to completely heal so you can stand up and run away before the killer cones back, to not even get more speed than the killer if they do... means the perk achieves basically nothing even if you do pull it off more often than not. So now we give it the very strong effect to grant endurance to both survivors. The perk is still not popular, because its trigger condition still requires the killer to slug.
In isolation, this is a problem, because we have 3 perks that trigger off the same scenario, with Buckle Up no longer synergising with the other 2, as it offers the same endurance effect of both MFT and WGLF, and as stated above is an effect that is too hard to earn typically, despite the effect being strong.
You see where this going I'm sure. Versatile perks that work in a lot of scenarios will always be better than perks that require a specific thing to happen. The only reason Buckle Up is relevant now is because when combined with FTP, it becomes versatile, and can be used not only when slugged, but even on a regular down, and be used for anti-tunnel, and even just to punish killers in general.
The argument is that two players getting endurance is too strong an effect to have in a versatile scenario. In our basic slugged scenario, it is fine... but it removes synergies with the similar perks. However with FTP it's now too versatile.
You traditionally could consider FTP with WGLF as an option to be really anti-tunnel, with WGLF giving a little anti-slug viability too. You might consider Dead Hard to combo with it... you may even take MFT to give you even more help escaping after doing it. With my revised Buckle Up you could consider it in place of WGLF or MFT, both options are worth thinking about.
However with modern Buckle Up there is absolutely no point in any of that, as it's just hands down better at doing the same job as all of those perks for only 1 perk slots... and then it offers even more on top.
FTP + Buckle Up is your anti-slug, anti-tunnel, chase extender, gate escape, Swiss army knife combo all in one. It basically makes every other anti-slug perk even more situational than they already are... I.e. can still be used while wounded.
My overarching point is, Buckle Up without FTP offers a very situational bonus, that doesn't synergise with the perks that trigger in the same situation. With FTP, it's a super combo that trumps most other options in the game.
My goal would be to tone down the BUFTP combo, and allow synergies with MFT and WGLF.
modern Buckle Up there is absolutely no point in any of that, as it's just hands down better at doing the same job as all of those perks for only 1 perk slots... and then it offers even more on top.
your missing entire point of my post. it is not doing hand down better at the same job because three perks are fundamentally different. Buckle up is doing its job well at what it was designed to do. protect recently picked-up survivors. Previously, it was doing its job poorly because 10% haste meant nothing if killer immediately hits you off the floor. MFT primary functionality is meant to be haste and We're gonna live forever's job is suppose give you 100% healing speed. Those perks are not getting overshadowed. They just suck in principal and need buffs.
For example:
What would make considering current MFT?
What if endurance triggered when I unhook someone onto myself? Now I am getting endurance effect on both unhooking and slugging where the perk might have some consistency if I go for risky saves?
The perk would read something like following:
Made for this:
You were born to survive, and raised to adapt. Whenever you are in the injured state, Made for This activates and you benefit from the following effects:
Gain the Endurance status effect for 8/9/10 seconds after completing a Healing action on another Survivor or unhooking a survivor.
Gain a 1/2/3% haste status effect while running and suffering from the deep status effect.
What would make a player consider using current We're gonna live forever?
What if the perk gave you a 100% healing speed for 90 seconds whenever you heal a survivor off the ground with a token system to limit how many times it can be trigger per match. An example of a reliable token system would be whenever a generator is complete. The perk would read something like following.
We're Gonna Live Forever:
Your few friends deserve the best protection.
When a generator is completed by the survivor team, this perk gains a token up to 5 tokens.
When performing a healing action on a survivor in the dying state, Consume 1 token to grant 100% altruistic speed for 45/60/90 seconds.
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Now there is incentive to go to dying state survivors to heal them quickly because you will trigger a rewarding healing bonus and bring your teammates quickly back to health. The current version is crap version of autodidact.
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@Peanits said:
Once upon a time, generators could not be kicked. There weren't perks to regress generators either, any progress on them was permanent. Some Survivors would indeed 99 generators to trick the Killer into checking ones that were essentially 'completed'. The counterplay ended up being pretty simple: If they're 99'd, the Killer would stop checking them. They couldn't prevent it from being powered at that point, so patrolling it was wasted time.
I imagine that same thing would apply here. If you know the generator is basically done and you can't do anything to prevent it, you simply treat it as if it's completed.
However, this scenario is incredibly specific and I'm not sure if I understand why anyone would ever do this. This would be no different to simply hiding and not repairing generators in the first place. The only difference is the Survivors would have to last long enough to have all the generators blocked and repair all the way to 99%. They aren't safe while they're doing this, there's still a Killer running around and chasing them.
This would be extraordinarily unlikely, and ultimately no different from the Survivors hiding in the first place.
is there any plans to do something about end game stealth where 2 survivors hide entire match and continuously prologue the match? The killer is unable to kick hatch to begin EGC leading into prologue hide and seek match.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3627289#Comment_3627289
Learn something new off you every time man. I love DBD history, so cheers for that little gem dude 😅
Still the point remains, even if these perks were buffed/meta, we essentially have Buckle Up that does the same job as these 2 perks combined. Even if FTP wasn't an option (where most people agree Buckle Up isn't OP on its own), it's still not good to have 1 perk doing the job of 2 perks, without appropriate trade offs.
We have crossovers like this for other perks, like Botany Knowledge vs. Desperate Measures, but the 2 play differently and you can argue either way which one is better. The Exhaustion perks are similar, SB is probably the best, but you can also put reasonable arguements for Lithe, BL, Dead Hard.
Now WGLF probably doesn't need it's condition, and that would probably be a fine perk. Not OP, as it does nothing if the Killer doesn't slug, and when used with FTP it only affects the target, so we don't get this nasty combo.
MFT is probably in an OK place too, because the 3% as we know can be devastating in the fight hands, and can be supplemented by other perks to attain. The pick up is hard to pull off but it can be pretty clutch when you manage it
However if these effects are/bevone well balanced, they are still pointless, because FTP + Buckle Up exists and just beats them hands down...
you keep insisting that they're same perks. it is like saying undying is same perk as thrill of the hunt for defending totems but hex:undying is better in every way.
We're gonna live forever is appeal is suppose to be 100% healing speed. the endurence aspect was added to the perk because it used to be equivalent effect of BBQ where it increased your bloodpoint gains by 25/50/75/100%. The BP bonus was removed so they added tag in effect to try make perk more appealing but it was worthless since killer could hit the person with we're gonna live forever. Fun fact, original version of the perk was 200% BP.
MFT has endurance condition to activate the perk. The main appeal of MFT is suppose to be that you gain 3% haste when your deep wound. once upon time, it was indirect exhaustion type perk that gave consistent haste bonus. Now, it is some situational effect that nobody runs.
these two perk are not specialized in anti-slug. their anti-slug nature is side ability. Buckle up on other hand is entirely specialized in anti-slug.
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@UndeddJester said:
Ah, so you're saying the target shouldn't get endurance. It's not a bad point at all... however this makes Buckle Up a non-conditional MFT. The main issue for me with new Buckle Up is it now steps on the toes of 2 other perks, and the real issue is, with FTP it is better than both of them:
- Made For This gives endurance to healer (but only when wounded and takes as long as a regular pick up)
- We're Gonna Live Forever gives endurance to target (but only when satisfying the activation requirements, and at +100% heal speed, which equals 8 secs from 0% recovery or 0.4s from 95% recovery)
The counter to both of these is hitting the other target, and in the case of Made For This, doesn't work against instadowns if you're full HP, like Myers, Bubba, Ghost Face, Hex: Devour hope, etc, etc.... neither case of which is an issue for FTP + Buckle Up.
To my mind it isn't healthy to have multiple perks do exactly the same thing, with one being safer/better in almost all scenarios, and having one additional scenario where it is outright obnoxious (i.e. healing in the killers face during the attack cooldown animation). This kinda thing cuts off build ideas, and makes the game less interesting overall.
I personally want Buckle Up to go back to how it was, and then buff the numbers. Give it something like 25% haste that degrades down to 10% over 6/8/10 seconds to the person you pick up, and 10% flat for the person who picks up. This way they're actually able to make some distance from the killer for the duration, while you become the easier target, which fits Ash's badass hero persona.
This would mean you can use MFT and We're Gonna Live forever with Buckle Up for some fun, and if you used FTP, you can use something like Dead Hard to try and get away with it. Things like this actually opens up pathways for being clever with builds, rahter than just having one unga bunga combo that is way better than everything else by default.
Made for this has effect to gain endurance because the condition to use the perk is to be in deep wound. Without effect, you wouldn't be able to trigger the perk. We're gonna live forever gives 100% healing bonus for healing survivors on the down. This perk has token system because the perk used to originally give you blood points. They had to replace the token system with something else to not make it flat out useless. these two perk have different design goals. They're different perks. They're not being used because they're not good enough.
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@Unam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624848#Comment_3624848
Genuine Question so I can understand YOUR POV better:
In the current state of the game, with all the mechanics survs received to iron out their critical mistakes (e.g. saving while killer is near, 3 genning themselves, not having map awareness, not understanding killer powers, not playing as a team, ...) how many handholding mechanics do you think survs need to play the game and still deserve to win?
the mechanic is not hand-holding mechanic. it is prevent abuse. In normal gameplay, you will not hit 8 regression events. They also buffed killer kick to 5% regression and weakened gen-tapping.
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@Green_Sliche said:
You are addon dependent and have to prioritize tunneling someone out asap.
Here is the basic gameplay of her :
Spam TV teleports in hope someone gets affected by them and gets like 2 or 3 stacks. Get that guy hooked asap so the condemnation stacks lock up. Repeat until someone gets condemned because he / she got 5 or 6 stacks of condemn locked and can't get rid of them anymore.
Against randoms who just play chill you will dominate most of your games. When it comes to a more organized team - no condemnation chance and you will be a typical M1 killer with bad chase potential, but with a potential to tunnel someone one out if you decide to do so.
To summarize : good and fun on paper but nothing like that in action.
I agree. It is silly that killer is based around mindlessly spamming TV's. i wish there was.... a little bit... i don't know... skill involved? more depth. The original version of sadako required skill because her TV cooldown were long but iri add-on requires her to hit people to reset TV's. it is just shame that add-on promoted gen-camping as optimal play over hit & run and chased focused gameplay.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3626549#Comment_3626549
Open-handed and Detective's Hunch aren't really perks focused on these items, and they don't really expand their functionality as much. I think there's more interesting ways in which these items could be put to use.
left behind, open handed and detective hutch indirectly improve functionality of the map and key items.
- Left behind shows you the location of the hatch when you are last player in the game. If killer closes hatch before you get to it, you can use key to open it.
- Open handed increases radius of key aura items such as Gold token and Blood amber add-on.
- Detective hutch marks everything on the map even if corresponding map does not track said items e.g green maps not tracking totems.
Nobody going to run these perks though because they'd rather for these perk effects to be base-kit for those items. The same reason why nobody runs resident manifest. The only perk that people used to run sometimes that was related to items was old botany knowledge for med-kits but even then, med-kit were so strong that there was no reason to run it.
Champion of Light is first perk that survivors might run that is related to flashlights because it gives you a 2nd exhaustion perk that you stack on top of Lithe, SB, DH, BL. It might not be meta because it does require flashlight but i do expect to see the perk.
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dev might buff killer regression one day to 200% assuming 3 gens no longer stall the game in a game breaking way.
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@Seraphor said:
Hatch isn't really a core mechanic anymore, it's a stalemate failsafe, so in their current iteration I don't see any perks interacting with Keys, unless it grants a broken key with useful add ons.
hatch doesn't work as stalemate fail safe in 3 gens because it doesn't spawn. it is there to try accelerate 1vs1 survivor. Speaking of which, Left behind is Key item perk. Plunderer instinct used to be a key item perk because it increases rarity of items and key is iri item so your more likely to get a key from plunders instinct. Many survivor used to run plundered back when keys were free escapes until they were eventually nerfed.
In term of aura reading, The key already have supporting perk to buff their aura reading capacities, this perk is called Open handed. It is just nobody uses it.
In terms of maps, Maps also have a supporting perk to buff maps. This perk is called detective hutch. it puts everything on the map. Again nobody uses it because pointless.
So the perk to improve unpopular items exists. they just suck.
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Billy changes are BVHR admitting that overheat was poor design choice but salvaging a poor design choice. The killer should be all unique, not all be the same.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3625465#Comment_3625465
I just don't like noob/soloQ stomping perks. Old Eruption did exactly this.
It's pick rate dropped hard and it will drop even more with this update.
Simple % change would mostly fix it and it works same against everyone same. Just make it worth it.
I really enjoy build with Eruption and Nowhere to hide on Wraith, but I am not going to keep it with this update. You will want to keep as many regression stacks as possible for late game, that's why ruin and blocking perks are going to work way better with this update.
the SWF exploit on letting go of a gen could easily be fixed by adding a clause where the perk has lingering effect of 10 seconds.
Causes all Survivors repairing within last 10 seconds of the repairing a generator to be incapacitated for 8/10/12 second
Instead, they over-nerfed the perk by a lot then buffed a little bit from PTB.
After watching Hens use Grim Embrace, I will also be dropping eruption but not for reason of eruption being weak. Every killer now will be running Pain res+Grim Embrace because it is too strong in current iteration.
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Alan wake has decent perks but his Boon:Illumination is too weak for a boon.
@Cellardoor said:
They have to take the injured condition OUT!
Injured condition is good for Solidarity/Autodidact/Deadline build.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624645#Comment_3624645
You definetly don't want to bring Incapacitation back. That's not healthy effect in my opinion.
Just buff % for all those small kicking perks, that's easiest and best.
eruption is designed for incap. the incap was there because perk requires killer to do a secondary objective to kick gens to use the perk. it is missing the proper effect resulting in lower usage and efficacy rate on the perk. I still use the eruption with pop but recognize that the perk could be improved.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624529#Comment_3624529
But holding tape is not giving you stacks, that's not how her power will work tho?
She will teleport and all survivors who are next to active TV will get a stack. So if survivors ignore TVs they will get stacks. And holding tape is coming with risk because you can hold only one. If you hold one, you can't close another gen which means Sadako can use this TV and build stack on you and your teammates.
And you also need to travel map for using tape, this is like old Sadako which is fine slowdown for her. But old Sadako did not force survivors to do this so much but new one will. Because that's how her power will work. Holding tape is pointless and you need to cleanse stacks as fast as you can.
I don't know if you read dev notes tho. She is not 100% old Sadako is coming back. Some of parts from her old kit and some of things from her curremt kit. And even she is getting new feature too, locking stacks when hook a survivor. So if survivor ignored stacks and did not cleanse them, whenever you hook them those stacks will never removed now. So it will be even easiler to get max stacks on this survivor.
How this kit is bad? I just don't see it.
I looked patch notes today and your right. it is not old sadako. I thought it was going to be old sadako as in 1:1 but it is not the same.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624301#Comment_3624301
regression perks are going to be like exhaustion perks for survivor. If you decide to run a build like Pain res, Pop, Eruption and Surge.
Problem with this is how actual effects suddenly have high impact. Pop was already limited effect, so it's not changed in any way. Same for Pain res. So two best slowdown perks are not changed in any way and they will be used even more.
But suddenly those little effects like Surge, Eruption are way weaker when it becomes limited resource. They used to be quite decent together, but with this you are just going to drain those change stacks too fast for them to be any decent.
Jolt will probably stay viable for non-competitive players, who just want to chase.
Otherwise upcoming slowdown builds I would guess:
- Grim Embrace, Pop, Pain res
- Corrupt, Deadlock, Grim Embrace
- Ruin, Surge, Sloppy (ignore gens)
Eruption, CoB, Overcharge are just bad.
Unless you want to use CoB as information perk for some reason...
I wonder how Overcharge is going to work, when gen was damaged 8 times (skill check).
also how DMS is going to work with Grim Embrace. Grim Embrace with Thrilling tremors...
Grim Embrace unless nerfed is going to be meta and survivors are not going to like it.
i don't think it is going affect normal gameplay even with using surge/eruption/pop/pain res. It really only nerfs excessive 3 gen kicking which this particular build is extremely potent at. Surge and Eruption are not useless. they're solid perks. eruption is a little on lower pick-rate performing side so maybe it could use 10 second of incap to bring a bit closer to its original form but it is still usable.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624562#Comment_3624562
C33 seems strong for sure. I think the classic alch ring/green-speed will be strong as well.
Shredded + crow isn't very good honestly, double speed will still be a lot stronger
Iri-tag/ring is really just a gimmick for fun though.
blighted crow currently is 6% and blighted rat is 4%. this is strong because your passing a really high movement speed threshold. new version, 3%+2% is 5%. These two add-on don't even add to current green crow. I am pretty sure that yellow speed is kinda dead add-on.
Green speed is still useful because it increases his map traversal and it is alternative to Alchemist ring which is the better map traversal add-on but ring no longer gives you recovery and Adrenaline vial does not give you that insane recovery. Shred notes+Crow is only combination that is close to current Alchemist ring/Blighted crow. The speed and recovery is obviously worse because the changes are intentional nerfs but it is as close as you get to current blight.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624399#Comment_3624399
J flicks won't come back because turn rate doesn't affect look angle on flicks.
c33+Adrenaline vial is going to be decently strong. Iri-tag+Alchemist ring likely will not be popular because of 20 second cooldown but it will have interesting gameplay.
I think your likely to see people run Shredded notes+Blighted crow as new "old Alchemist ring+ Blighted crow".
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@NomiNomad said:
I play a lot of Wesker, and I had no idea the egg did this, nor have I really noted a difference. Then again, I haven't been keeping an eye on this. When I play him again I'll try to pay attention, but as of now I haven't felt a difference.
it is been bug for awhile. The add-on description says nothing about it but wesker has a lot of weird buggy interactions.
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I think they scheduled some changes for Pig In March-April alongside doctor, clown, demo, hag, huntress, so wait until her time comes.
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@LeFennecFox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624450#Comment_3624450
Way stronger than legion who has some counterplay. I wouldn't want to play against a legion with blight movement speed and that never ran out of power until they hit you.
If i am understanding this add-on correctly, you get infinity rushes but you get 20 second cooldown for using his power. Alchemist ring+Iri tag is going to be really strong. you can get 60% rush duration after 3 bounces(add-on says it caps rush bonuses to 3). It is going to be like Oni demon fury/Drift king billy on steroids. you can just bounce around all 7 gens, patrolling entire map until you get a hit.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624503#Comment_3624503
You will still not need to commit to chases. Stacks supposed to put pressure on survivors and give you some slowdown. And if survivors ignore them, you can punish. Sadako will still be played with same way.
Hit, teleport, hit next survivor, teleport again. While keep teleporting, stacks will be build on survivors. And you will get value from them: Slowdown or mori.
And while doing this, some pallets will out your way, so you will get easier chases. That's how i am playing Sadako right now and that's how i will play her after rework. Nothing changed for me.
what slowdown? Did you ever play vs old sadako? I am terribly confused. old sadako is about never grabbing tapes because once you grab a tape, you turn off television which tells sadako which TV you need to go. When holding a tape, a condemn stack is applied every 30 seconds+1 stack for grabbing the tape.
A skilled sadako will intercept the survivor holding the tape. You camp television that survivor needs go to. If survivor tries insert tape, you teleport onto the television interrupting the TV tape insert animation. You play it like Reverse Bear trap Pig that crouches. You proxy-camp and proxy-follow the survivor within 16 meters for passive to tick the survivor until survivor is fully condemned making sure that they are unable deposit the tape. Once fully condemn, you mori them.
There is no game-delay in this version of sadako because Sadako has atrociously bad condemn build-up. Survivor never need to hold tapes and are advised to never hold a tape because once they pick-up a tape, the 30 second build-up curse is easily exploitable by the killer. Instead the biggest challenging is building enough condemn for survivor to bait picking up tape. The easiest way to do this is to down a survivor, next to a television and slug them. This forces other team members to pick-up slugged survivor. If survivor ignore picking downed teammates, their teammate will be bleed out. When a survivor is rescued from the floor, you can teleport to the television to apply 2 stacks of condemn(1 for each survivor). When survivor is pressured enough to pick-up the tape, you abuse the 30 second passive condemn passive to mori the survivor strategy mentioned in paragraph 2.
Hit, teleport, hit next survivor, teleport again. While keep teleporting, stacks will be build on survivors. And you will get value from them: Slowdown or mori.
And while doing this, some pallets will out your way, so you will get easier chases. That's how i am playing Sadako right now and that's how i will play her after rework. Nothing changed for me.
This is how current sadako works. the gameplay is radically for old Sadako.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624445#Comment_3624445
How she is trash? She will still stack on survivors with any teleport if survivors ignore TVs. Her most used add-on is base-kit now. She can chase in stealth mod again. She can lock stacks now if she hook survivors.
You are free to dislike Sadako but calling this nerf is ridiculous lol. She is fine.
the current sadako only need hit people once to break tapes. you do not need to commit to bad chases and she has no bad maps. new sadako requires you to fully commit to bad chases. she is going to be really weak which is somewhat sad. flicker buff is not going to do anything. that anti-loop has been dysfunctional vs good players for awhile. Hooking buff is pointless.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Perk did not even nerfed that badly lol.
It still same value pre 6.1.0 which perk was fine.
And now m2 killer won't abuse it. If m1 killer is losing stacks for hitting obsession, i don't see reason why m2 killers should not?
Too bad; Wesker, Xeno, Chucky, Demo, Nemmy players who was using this perk will need to learn to use power now.
i hope they revert the 5%->4% change.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
They just did not see the real issue with this perk.
Like why i would make killer run around progressing gens? My goal will be take him away from gens. 5% speed is not worth it, even 10% speed is not worth it. Because killer just can leave me and pressure on gens.
This perk is just bad and have no use. I wish they would just rework it. But instead of reworking, they nerfed it.
I think just increasing radius to 48 meters and revert gen-speed decrease to old % would make perk see use. Like I would definitely use it because i enjoy looping but this version is too useless.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
The regression event counting method doesn't impact regression perks equally. Perks with low regression amounts are nerfed, e.g. Surge. A 2.5% regression shouldn't be treated equally as a 25% regression because it limits design space. There could be a point in the future where the devs make a 2.5% regression perk, and it will be terrible due to the regression event cap.
Perks that require kicking gens, e.g. Eruption, No Where to Hide, and Trial of Torment are nerfed. Perks that cause passive regression, e.g. Hex Ruin and Oppression, are largely unaffected when they should be accounted for since they still regress gens.
The total gen regression cap makes far more sense since it treats all regression perks equally and accurately factors for how much a perk impacted gen regression. It would account for all regression, including any form of passive regression, except missed skill checks. By cap, I mean relative to gen progression, e.g. a 100% cap means a gen can only regress 100% in total at most.
As for the cap %, I haven't decided but 150% is probably good.
that was my idea that you have 150% regression cap. the dev prefer the 8 regression instance system which is fine. it does same thing. they just need adjust balance on perks if one perk is not outputting enough regression.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623889#Comment_3623889
Surge is designed to happen rapidly with no cooldown. I've have this trigger 3 times in a matter of a minute before. Eruption takes TWO tokens up. There's also nowhere to hide uses. All sorts of reasons that charges will get eaten up fast. Every charged used up is one less charge you could use trail of torment. You can literally have a situation where you could never even use ToT on a generator.
3 times is a fine. you only lose value if it is over 8 times.
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corrupt/deadlock/grim embrace is pretty good proxy camp/face camp type build on leatherface. A possible solution to fixing that is making so that gen-blocking have lingering effect 10 second effect to not work within 16 meters.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624262#Comment_3624262
Sure, but how is going to work Opression, if survivors miss that skill check? Same for Overcharge?
Is that event from perk, or from survivor? It's forced trigger by perk, so there is chance it might count..
Opression still has really high CD, so I doubt we are going to see it.
I like the idea, issue is many current regression perks are simply too weak, if you consider it as limited resource.
What I find problematic is survivors don't have to worry about 3-gen at all. No need to spread gens.
From actual gen regression perks, I think only pop and pain res are worth using. There will be more blocking perks tho.
Maybe Ruin, but I would prefer % over this change...
according to Peanits, he said that event skill-check are not counted. Oppression only begins regress and does not count towards kicks but it does count initial gen-kick on gen you kick counts. Overcharge begins regression if you fail a skill-check and does not count but manually kicking gen counts.
The only thing that is not explained is what happens if killer kick a gen 8 times and survivor fails skill-check? Does gen still regress for 10% and begin regression? I am going guess that it does regress for 10% and begins regular regression. It leaves vulnerability for killer to still regress gens but this only happens if survivor is bad at skill-checks.
regression perks are going to be like exhaustion perks for survivor. If you decide to run a build like Pain res, Pop, Eruption and Surge.
A single down would proc Pain res(1), Pop(2),Eruption(3) and Default kick(4). If you proc surge(5) instances of regression will occur. You will quickly exhaust all your gen-kicks by stacking perks. You can still stack these perks but like exhaustion perks, Stacking Dead hard+Balance landing+Lithe+Dramaturgy is not a smart idea because you can only use 1 from exhaustion.
@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624262#Comment_3624262
We don't know own if it will still allow kicks, but even if it does, what about ToT?
I assume gen regress at rate of 0.00 c/s otherwise trail of torment would not function correctly. Their change is mostly target towards 3 gens specifically.
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no way, the whole point is of skull merchant is to be hit & run trap killer. I hit people with stealth, put 2 lock-on stacks on them and then chase other people. if people that have 2 lock-on stacks go in drones, then i get speed while i chase another survivor.
skull merchant is like ghostface marking but instead of marking people to down them, it is marking people to gain haste effects.
@Leidenschaft90 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624189#Comment_3624189
It is hard to dodge them when you're in a chase (some Skull Merchants set a minefield of drones) or the drone is inactive and becomes active in that moment you get into it's radius so you can't dodge the scanner.
When a Trickster isn't able to down you with knives you get rewarded as well for dogding them.
it should be hard to dodge them if I place them correctly. that is biggest skill-ceiling for trapping killers. it is how you place traps.
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@VomitMommy said:
Eruption is so trash with this. Basically every kick is going to take 2 stacks for it. (1 kick, 1 down)
Ruin is going to be good, because it shouldn't count towards it, so you get kinda early game regression for free.
Blocking perks are going to be way better now.
CoB, Overchange should get buff with this. Those are beyond useless when it is so limited...
I wonder how Opression is going to work, but that CD is just way too high...
oppression makes you begin regressing generators. it does not apply generator event action. The change is really good. one of the best changes they have made in long time however i think the regression is a bit low per gen-kick. I think they should increase this to 8% to be same as Surge perk. one of the smarter changes they have done in long awhile.
I like billy changes and 3 gen changes.
@HandsomeJack_049 said:
I'm really concerned that this directly nerfs Trail and Nowhere to Hide. Have we gotten confirmation as to whether this will prevent you from kicking a generator at all after 8 or just that it will no longer regress the gen?
i don't think it prevent you from kicking gens. it just doesn't reward you with gen regression after 8 instances so all the perk still work. kicking gen would still proc nowhere to hide but no regression etc.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623338#Comment_3623338
Nostromo is far from big, its right in the middle of size. But to break it down even further: I already mentioned the shuttle, which is a complete waste of space and not of interest for either side. Survivor have no gen there and no defense, so they dont go there. Neither does the killer, no gen.
Next up is the main building which is mostly dead space you cant even enter. And main is like 25% of the entire map.
Last but not least we have the 9 o'clock side at the gate, which is big space of absolutly nothing. Same can we said about the 3 o'clock gate in a less extreme matter.
All in all, reducing the map to effective size, its one of the smaller maps.
3gen: 3 generators can spawn at the same time in main building. 3 gens can spawn on either dead end side of the map next to main. I mean, how much better do we need a 3 gen to be?
Nostromo has big SqT. it takes long time to go from bottom corner to top corner and vice versa. The main building blocks big portion of the map. the only saving grace this map has for killers is somewhat weak filler pallets. adding strong pallets and window infinities would make this map survivor sided. the map is fairely balanced. I don't think it favours one side or other. The player who utilizes the map better wins. I can't say that for most of other maps in dbd.
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@pigslittlepet said:
Skull merchant dcs aren't a problem with her playstyle. It's the fact the community hates her too much. They hated her 3 gen playstyle (and rightly so) but the dcs stay no matter the playstyle. I have become a sm main since the rework and I play her with full chase and drones for stealth for first hit. I don't camp gens or hooks unless the game state calls for it but I still get dcs all the time. Every other game isn't that uncommon. The other day I had 4 games in a row with dcs. The problem isn't her playstyle it's her perception.
no. survivor finally can stop whining about skull merchant 3 gen's. survivor don't have excuse now to d/c. it is pure entitlement if they d/c after 3 gen changes go through.
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@Alen_Starkly said:
I feel like the 5% -> 4% is fair. The other part is what is worrying me. STBFL has been a really good reason on Pig to use her ambush attack (on the obsession). It also worked well with Trapper's traps, and some other killers. This will lessen the need to use M2 special attacks.
An ever worse thing is that killers will likely completely avoid the obsession, and probably tunnel even more, since they will have less survivors to choose from (3 instead of 4).
i want them to revert 5% -> 4%. unfair change that specific hurts m1 killers.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
Quick gambit changes are bad honestly no one is gonna use that for 5%
otz said same thing. the perk looks nerfed.
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@I_Wanna_Muffin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623466#Comment_3623466
She will still need old iri tape to really be able to perform, that addon was just way too good to pass up on really wish they would give like 2 or 3 tvs base kit.
As a Sadako main and basically 1 trick im very very glad they are reverting most of her and basically giving her some qol changes, but i think she will need more.
We will see what happens to her on ptr though.
i am pretty sure they're reverting her add-on's. ring drawing will now apply condemn to all healing actions and iri-tape will now reset TV's as it did before. It just looked full revert.
the two buffs which are invisibility increase and the condemn change look meaningless. I don't care to hook people. there is no point in hooking people if i am playing for condemn in old version. She's back to being slug killer that slug people under TV's and teleport to them. In other words, very under-powered because I have to commit to chases with pathetic chase potencial to down survivors.
STBFL is a nerf to m2 killers that play like m1 killers such as Demogorgon, so m1 killer. They make it sound like m1 killer are over performing.
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@Xendritch said:
So I have no idea what Alan Wake is and in light of research of it and not seeing anything saying whether the survivor is original or licensed, it could very much be Alan Wake which sure I guess, not that interested in the character but maybe the perks will be good at least.
it is a game that plays like a movie. You play as a character Alan Wake. I believe there are two games. Alan Wake 1 is first game and Alan Wake The American Nightmare is game 2. The distinct aspect of Alan Wake is that you are trying survive a zombies apocalypse but zombies in that game are protected by darkness, The only way for you to kill them is to Shine a flashlight at them to shoot them. So think of it like old Wraith Lightburn mechanic.
I suspect that Alan Wake will have some perk related to flashlights or be able to trigger flashlight blind effect.
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it sounds like a buff to 3 gens.