Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@gatsby said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635367#Comment_3635367
I like that. Boon: Wake Up
good thing they nerfed it. it was going to destroy the game. gamebreaking perk.
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@Sunbreaker7 said:
In my years of playing Dead by Daylight since 2016, I haven't encountered any other killer in the game more inclined to camping and face camping than the Huntress. Despite the game introducing anti-camping measures, Huntress players seem unaffected and continue to camp after securing their first hook. It's puzzling to me. Is it her axes, her speed, or some other factor that motivates so many Huntresses to consistently resort to camping, more than any other killer?
she's too weak. that is why in march, she's getting some updates to improve her viability and reduce need to camp. I believe comment was something like making her more fun to play.
@Xxjwaynexx said:
I think it also plays into her character, She stalks her prey, catches it and then secures the kill. It's what any intelligent hunter would do, why would you give up your damn near dying deer to chase a completely healthy smaller deer into the fog.
All jokes aside it's due to her hatchets, I mean a good huntress can camp you from almost anywhere when they've mastered hatchet throwing and orbitals. I can hook someone on the street in front of the house on goj and go and stand on the roof and snipe everyone coming for the save. She just excels at camping honestly and people are gonna want to play in a way that fits her style.
I agree she excels at camping.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635838#Comment_3635838
That logic is only worse if Sadakos know that they have more than 2 stacks off hook with the new system. It would become more of a problem since with the addition of the condemned cooldown, targeting the highest stack survivor becomes a major focus to condemn and get out of the match ASAP if they're ignoring the tapes.
And tunneling them off hook with the locked in 2 stacks + whatever else they may have makes it more of a bonus instead of spreading more condemned to the other survivors for late game pressure due to time. Really I'm starting to question lock-in stacks entirely if either case is as oppressive as the devs claim, because I see condemned cooldown a far worse problem in the long run since it cuts down Sadako's slowdown. If anything, both of them together really discourage spreading pressure to more than 2 survivors. Especially with how easy it is to shut down the condemned spam without the cooldown in the first place.
I am not sure who this rework is for because even @radiantHero23 does not like rework. I don't think dev understand what he was asking for his request and I can only interrupt his posts from discussions i have had with him.
He had 3 major complaints about Current Sadako which boils down to singular global complaint. His global complaint is that Sadako is too focused on macro play[Condemn] and does not reward killer for micro play. What are these micro plays that I am referencing?
1) He does not like that Sadako has no good chase power. Part of his request was that he wanted Sadako to have a better chasing ability(He was upset that Rekiro watch got nerfed). He wanted her micro chase play to be buffed. So he is complained that her chase micro play is not good.
2) His second complaint was that all of Sadako's good add-on revolved around Condemn build-up. He wanted add-on rework on some of her worse add-on. In particular, he wanted Sadako to be a better stealth killer. He doesn't like lullaby. He is complaining about her micro stealth gameplay.
3) His 3rd final complaint is a bit complicated. It was difficult for me to understand it but his essential complaint is that survivor at live take tapes out of televisions which turn TV off. He doesn't like that survivors are taking takes out of televisions which limit her mobility. As secondary, he dislike teleportation cooldown. This complaint is regarding Micro TV gameplay.
Did the dev deliver his requests?
The answer is they delivered two minor requests. They increased base invis from 1.0 to 1.2 and they removed TV cooldown. for delivering these two buffs, they nerfed everything else. So now killer is extremely weak like freddy tier-weak where killer is complete m1 with TV teleport instead of gen teleport.
Now you just need wait for mid-chapter changes. I made post here: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/403099/sadako-suggested-changes-my-version-of-onryo#latest talking about what I would change to merge New Sadako with Old Sadako. The post got buried. the number in the post was experimental with possible subject to change.
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@ChaosWam said:
Weird thing is, uncapped hook condemned lock did inspire more hooking as opposed to tunneling. If anything, now you have to tunnel to keep those stacks up and not risk survivors lowering it back down to 2, especially with how easy it is to do tapes since they have no downside now.
And I agree, tunneling is a symptom of the game itself, be it killers who feel too weak to attempt to spread hook pressure, killers with powers blatantly too powerful for tunneling, and reworks like this one making most feel as if it's the best approach to being nerfed.
Edit: I forgot to mention those who will absolutely tunnel no matter if it's smart or not to do just because they can/want to, in which case no change is going to stop them.
i think their logic was not explained correctly. what the post is trying to say is that lock on stack system encourage player to tunnel because every time you get new lock on stacks, your encouraged to lock in the new lock on stacks. for example, if someone has 4 condemn stacks and you tp back to the hook, now the player has 5 condemn stacks +1 stack to lock in. Suppose they go into another TV spot, you TP, now they have 6 stacks. Now you 2 more stacks to lock-in. 4+2. Once they get unhooked, same process occurs, you tp again, your incline to lock-in new stacks and so on.
the condemn system is suppose encourage to spread pressure then after enough condemn has been spread, then the killer can decided spot 1 player that is weak link and choose to focus/tunnel that player. The new Sadako doesn't encourage spreading pressure in her gameplay at all. there is no ring drawing to do so.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635808#Comment_3635808
I wouldnt say that, main reason why id because her way of spreading condemn is still way faster thanks to the lower cooldowns for the TVs themselves
between original ring drawing and old iri-tape that reset TV's alongside old tapes, her total power-level is significantly worse.
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635305#Comment_3635305
i said it would be free if u increase the range. With let say a 48 meter range u could boost multiple gens people working on! "to save 7.66 seconds on a gen, you have to loop the killer for 90 seconds. that is really long time in dbd terms. Most chases don't even last that long"
I mean you going to get in a few chases at least and it would boost multiple gens at the same time if you increase the range enough. Put quick Gambit at 48M and i guarantee u the usage would skyrocket.
who would guessed that getting use out of your perk makes it worth selecting in a load out.
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@Shroompy said:
Her condemned no longer spreads map wide, but instead within 16m of any powered TV.
Her TP cooldown is gone, but she has a timer of 10 seconds where if she teleports inside of that timer she doesnt spread condemned.
On PTB, Condemned would lock in place after a hook, and now it only locks in 2 stacks per hook
She'll be better than her original version when she released, but shes still going to be quite weak
she is worse then her original release form.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635734#Comment_3635734
I have played killer competitively. You shouldn't be consistently losing 2-3 gens on the first chase. Not saying it can't happen from time to time, but it's absolutely not the norm.
vs good looper and efficient pre-running team, it is the norm. Sometimes the play is stealth instead of pre-run. that build will allow killer to comeback vs good teams but the issue with that build is how unfun it is to play against gen-blocking perks as survivor.
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@Quizzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635022#Comment_3635022
And it's funny in swf. It's the only perk that can stack with itself when it comes to gen boost. So me and my duo can add bloodpact together and get chased together while others do gens.
that is not worth it. 3 people on gen is superior to 2 people on gens using the perk.
@solarjin1 said:
The perk way better than before but still not worth running. You can't really increase the range anymore or it just be free gen boost. This is probably the best it can be while retaining the orginal idea.
how is it free? your looping the killer. to save 7.66 seconds on a gen, you have to loop the killer for 90 seconds. that is really long time in dbd terms. Most chases don't even last that long.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
BHVR is trying to nerf Blight challange: Imposible.
We all focused how Sadako butchered by them but it's not only terrible change with upcoming patch.
Adrenaline Vial is busted and new problematic addon.
Alan Wake perks are terrible bad.
I was hoping to play Billy and Sadako but now, i will just stay away from this game for more. Because balance changes is really amazes me.
They are giving busted add-on to S tier killer while nerfing weak killer to ground. I don't unserstand any reason of this.
they nerfed c33 and iri tag which were major problematic add-on's. adrenaline vial is fairely balanced imo. blight is still strong but he's no longer overpowered strong in add-on department. they did a decent job on blight. His add-on are nerfed but they're not useless. Just decent/good.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634429#Comment_3634429
Weren't you the self-proclaimed "#1 MFT hater"?
Somehow, 3% Survivor Haste is OP and uncounterable but Killer Haste doesn't make unsafe loops worse.
a safe pallet/god pallet remains a god pallet regardless for how fast killer moves. Killer haste makes unsafe loops worse. that is why bloodlust is not a good mechanic. Killer need large burst m/s increases like Chucky's Slice & Dice to mindgame loops. not small bonuses.
you have option as survivor to ignore unsafe loops and only use safe loops/god loops. Survivor gaining haste is different from killer. it in fact makes loops safer, that is why they changed the perk. I don't neccassary agree with the change but you have to accept the changes.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635195#Comment_3635195
I honestly can't take this seriously anymore when "Condemn cooldown just prevents mechanic from stomping weaker survivors." and "The entire rework primary goal is to allow survivors that play poorly to win." is in the same argument. I can't explain again how taking a tape isn't something strong survivors do, it's the basic counterplay.
Skill expression arguments are fine, Sadako is an M1 killer and suffers the same skill ceiling as other M1 killers with a twist on her manifest intermittent invisibility, timing anti-stun demanifests and mentally checking condemned and TVs. Her core is still an M1 killer. But I cannot justify nerfs to something that has a built in counterplay to them that's extremely simple to do. Walk to a TV and take a tape. Can be done between teleports. Tape exchanges are quick and easy and you just have to mindgame an M1 killer.
taking a tape is basic counter-play but rework dumb down the tapes the gameplay so much so that the gameplay for survivor is too easy for experienced survivors. The weaker survivor player won't use tapes effectively thus still dying to condemn mechanic. Having a noob-stomp mechanic that does nothing for high-level but obliterates the casual beginner survivor team is unhealthy. that is why i support their change even if it is not good change.
Sadako is an M1 killer
it is not about being an m1 killer. it is about how applying condemn is skill-less mechanic now that is automated. Being good as Condemn Sadako is same as being Day 1 Sadako. The gameplay depth of the character is gone.
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@Alen_Starkly said:
I can't believe you kept it the same as it was on the PTB. This is a new "jack of all trades" perk. I didn't even know about its vile combo with Dead Man's Switch. Why have you kept it like this? Survivors are gonna have at least 1 week of hell when this goes live. 6 months if you take as long you did with Made For This, to change it.
Grim Embrace blocks all gens 4 times per trial. That's very similar to old Eruption. If everyone's healthy, and 1 person goes for the unhook, at least 1 other person can't do anything for quite a while. Even if injured, unless they have a medkit or a self-healing perk, they will basically be rendered incapacitated . Remember this word? And how much the incapacitated status effect made the solo Q survivor matches miserable?
Why, why would you bring that back? Different form, but basically the same thing. The only change is that even SWFs can't counter this, unlike with the old Eruption, where they could call out going down in voice comms.
We already have Dead Man's Switch and Thrilling Tremors. These perks block gens, but survivors have a chance to play around them, depending on the skill, planning and luck. Against the new Grim Embrace, survivors can't do anything.
The current live servers Grim Embrace blocks the gens only once per trial, and only after you've hooked every survivor once. It's a good payoff, in my opinion. The new one is ridiculous though. Please don't make the solo q experience more miserable than it currently is.
look on bright side, at least they can't use excuse soloq excuse. Now they have an actual overpowered perk to nerf unlike weakening something silly like ultimate weapon.
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yes, in prospect that Deadline perk gets buffed.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635179#Comment_3635179
Then I ask again, why did you say the changes were necessary when it seems your gripe is how strong tapes and taking them are when they also didn't get changed at all with this upcoming update?
My experience in PTB was very different. Thanks to uncapped hook condemned, I was able to use it as a pressure tool when teleporting mid chases and mentally checking when TVs would turn back on to apply more condemned. Especially as survivors wandered the map and get struck by it every teleport until I find their target TV and get 3-4 stacks locked onto someone for choosing correctly. It was a very great mid to late game tool.
And honestly, I take Scott's input with a grain of salt considering he more than likely didn't play a lot of Sadako before. Even his recent video he admits to as much and 'started to get into it' during the PTB. I also highly disagree with his take on condemned having a timer being good, it just incentivizes ignoring condemned even more.
Edit: And again, we shouldn't base massive changes on survivors who refuse to interact with the counter mechanics. They are not a good representation of balancing a power.
why did you say the changes were necessary when it seems your gripe is how strong tapes and taking them are when they also didn't get changed at all with this upcoming update?
I already answered my problem with rework. This was my answer:
I dislike entire Onryo rework because there is no substance gameplay left on either side. The killer has no skill expression in applying condemn/manipulating condemn to be more effective and survivor has no skill expression in deleting the ability. The killer is spoon fed condemn stacks for existing and survivor is spoon fed the counter-play.
Condemn cooldown just prevents mechanic from stomping weaker survivors.
And again, we shouldn't base massive changes on survivors who refuse to interact with the counter mechanics. They are not a good representation of balancing a power.
The entire rework primary goal is to allow survivors that play poorly to win.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635159#Comment_3635159
My entire argument on this topic comes from PTB Sadako to upcoming release Sadako. Tapes were not changed between PTB and this upcoming release notes.
Your entire argument is based on you saying the changes coming are good for Sadako:
No cooldown teleportation promoted spamming teleport mindlessly with no decision making or thought process. The lock condemn stack promoted tunneling survivor off-hook and slugging people next to TV's to finish the 7 stacks of condemn on the "Locked Condemn" survivor.
These were grossly problematic designs in PTB Sadako. All the change are justified.
How can you defend the hook lock and condemned cooldown when with this update, tapes have no downsides to taking, you can see TV auras within 16m, and tapes can be inserted in 1 second in front of her? Condemned was easily countered by taking a tape and denying that TV and it's 16m range, that was entirely my point with this. In the PTB you could get decent stacks and buy yourself time since survivors had to respect it and exchange tapes, or prevent it by taking tapes early to protect their gens. I mean even the tunneling condemned thing has been debunked by a lot of players at this point.
Honestly you're starting to confuse me on what your stance is here.
In the PTB you could get decent stacks and buy yourself time since survivors had to respect it and exchange tapes, or prevent it by taking tapes early to protect their gens.
not my experience. i wasn't able to get any condemn kills vs good survivors. I had scottjund experience which was that when you face a good team, you get no condemn kills. the tape counter is too strong. That is why the changes are confusing because they nerfed a killer that already sucked.
If you play public ptb which typical features weaker survivor players, then you will stomp lobby by spamming TV teleport's. that is why they added condemn cooldown. What was newbie stomp mechanic in the ptb is now a mechanic that does absolutely nothing now.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635065#Comment_3635065
Singularity EMPs and Turrets are a completely different debate. Singularity and Xenomorph cannot mori you regardless of hook state.
What makes Sadako different is her threat is tied to the condemned. And why are we suddenly shifting to tape effectiveness when the topic was the controversial changes made in the update? The tapes weren't touched at all and Sadako was effectively nerfed, heck I'd even argue with the hook condemned cap and condemned having a cooldown, tapes were massively buffed since you don't need to grab them as often.
The tapes weren't touched at all and Sadako was effectively nerfed
The tapes did change. previously in old iteration, you had a passive that gave you 1 condemn stack every 30 seconds when holding a tape. In current iteration, this passive was removed and traded for different passive where you gain 2 stacks of condemn when sadako successfully basic attacks a survivor when carrying a tape.
What does this version of Sadako have in relationship to carrying a tape?
Nothing. They straight up removed the passive with no positive. The tapes did change, they changed positive for survivor with no upside for killer.
heck I'd even argue with the hook condemned cap and condemned having a cooldown, tapes were massively buffed since you don't need to grab them as often.
they restrict her mobility. the loss of condemn is more insult to injury. Icing on the cake. the passive already lost all threat value. nobody at good-level survivor was going get mori'd before death hook in ptb version.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635001#Comment_3635001
That's completely on the survivors at that point though. That's like saying 'This boss has a mechanic that kills me if I don't stand on this pillar. But I don't want to stand on this pillar, even if it takes 2 seconds to do it. Therefore, I shouldn't stand on this pillar' then dying and wondering why you died.
If 4 survivors are split, Sadako is likely to see one of them and give chase. It still gives everyone time to grab tapes regardless if she chooses to take that chase or not anyway. If all 4 survivors are on the same gen, it only takes one of them to grab that tape to save the rest from gaining condemned. I think a strong counterplay balances a strong power this way.
I started playing this game when Sadako came out. It took me less than half an hour to realize what tapes and teleportation does.
I think a strong counterplay balances a strong power this way.
So you support an item that deletes most your ability entirely? That is like saying Singularity Emps and Turrets are good design. Survivors making right play every single time should not render your ability completely ineffective. The tapes are suppose to be a tool to mitigate effectiveness of curse. The current version upcoming version of sadako deletes curse entirely. There is nothing the killer can do to gain advantages from tapes. The tapes only hurt sadako and contribute nothing towards her success in the base-kit. Only ring drawing does anything towards the tapes, it gives messily 1 stack for hooking someone. Even coming from lore perspective, this version of Onryo makes no sense. your holding a cursed object and cursed object is like help you?
The current tapes are no better then singlurarity EMP's. free counter with no downside.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634980#Comment_3634980
You completely overlook the fact that you can grab a tape by the time Sadako teleports a second time, in most cases. The TV is even highlighted for you.
i am not disagreeing with tape argument. I am saying that if you entirely ignore televisions, you get condemn stacks for almost doing nothing other then pressing TV teleport button. When survivor counters you, you have no ability. Condemn mechanic is nothing more then noob-stomping ability now. Average survivor to master-level survivor will never get Condemned. The mechanic only function vs new players that are like 0-500 hours that entirely disregard tapes and televisions as a concept.
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Some good news:
sign of relief. At the same time, I do not see them being able to improve this killer in few changes. Onryo is garbage now.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634723#Comment_3634723
Absolute nonsense.
You couldn't even reliably spam teleport, every teleport would remove a 16m area of condemned spread for a chunk of time. Not to mention, survivors could grab a tape in the time it takes for Sadako to teleport, demanifest, and teleport again with no real downside.
She has a strong counterplay to a strong power. What these changes are, they're a kneejerk reaction to players who don't know or want to know how to counter her at a basic level. Even the power cooldown makes 0 sense because, again, TVs have a limited range and can be seen by survivors if they need to turn them off. It would make WAY more sense with current Sadako, not the PTB one. And I really tested against her in PTB and found there wasn't a tunneling or spam issue if you just managed the tapes and dodged the M1 killer with a loud stealth ability.
it is not non-sense. with 7 televisions, you incentives to teleport every single chance you get regardless of whether you hit the survivor with condemn or not. there is simply no drawback to not doing that. By teleportation to all 7 TV's, you emulate old condemn effect of applying 0.75 condemn stack to the entire map. Now it is just 1 condemn stack on the entire map. if you hit, you build condemn. If you don't hit, just teleport to another location. There is no bad teleport. The 10 second cooldown is there to discourage mindless teleportation.
In order for survivor to counter massive teleportation spam, survivor are incentives to always grab a tape or deposit tape to turn off every single television on the map near a gen that is being worked on. TV's spawn next to generators so you can grab a tape, work on a gen then go to another gen and turn off television. you can do gen objective and tv objective in such a way that there is no game-delay. only positive benefits in deleting her entire passive and her teleportation capacities. there is no decision making or skill input from survivor end with new tapes. you see a turned on TV near a generator, you turn it off. You have a tape? Go to your television and turn it off. It is just free counter to her ability with no downsides. it might be worse Singularity EMP'S.
I dislike entire Onryo rework because there is no substance gameplay left on either side. The killer has no skill expression in applying condemn/manipulating condemn to be more effective and survivor has no skill expression in deleting the ability. The killer is spoon fed condemn stacks for existing and survivor is spoon fed the counter-play. I was heartbroken by her rework and decided to not give any further feedback beyond what I am writing here. All I can hope now for her rework to be a downright failure where she get reverted.
@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634723#Comment_3634723
Giving condemned a cooldown would be fine if she had global condemned still and the other change makes no sense like the explanation to nerf it.
The lock in: supports tunneling!?
How is it supposed to do that? It doesn‘t help you to tunnel someone for the condemned lock in-> she has no chase power and she didn’t ‘t get the condemned increased just by tunneling.
Developer post explains their reasoning for lock-on stack change.
With your current Condemned progress becoming permanent when you were hooked, Survivors who were hooked with several stacks became a clear target for The Onryō; it would only take a few more stacks of Condemned to secure a quick and early kill. This indirectly encouraged the Killer to seek out and chase the same Survivor after they were unhooked (or “tunnelling” for short).
To tone this down, hooking a Survivor will now lock in a maximum of 2 stacks of Condemned. Any additional Condemned will remain but can be removed by the Survivor as normal. This can happen again when the Survivor is hooked for a second time for a maximum of 4 locked-in stacks.
This will give Survivors an opportunity to remove some of their Condemned after they are unhooked while keeping Condemned kills as a far more prominent threat later in the match.
The short answer is that they want condemn to be a late-game threat when it doesn't matter. It is like they forget that Pyramid Head exists... who also has a name called Executioner who gets mori's for just applying torment debuff on death hook. Sadako now has identity crisis where a Pyramid head does what she does but better.
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@radiantHero23 said:
I understand where the nerfs are coming from, but some of them are absolutely unjustified.
The lock on should have stayed as it was. It was the only thing making chases and hooks an incentive. Getting an early kill via hooking is not that common because Sadakos chase is not good.
The cooldown on condemned is bad. Thats it. Just bad.
WE NEEDED ADDON CHANGES! WHERE ARE THEY???
No cooldown teleportation promoted spamming teleport mindlessly with no decision making or thought process. The lock condemn stack promoted tunneling survivor off-hook and slugging people next to TV's to finish the 7 stacks of condemn on the "Locked Condemn" survivor.
These were grossly problematic designs in PTB Sadako. All the change are justified.
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no. range limit is main issue with the perk. it has be near global to be worth it and with sizable gen increase. something like 52 meters with 8% would be worth it. 36 is still too small. Quick Gambit is better then previous version but not good enough to use it.
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turrets limit his creative usage of stealth and mobility. He also suffers from pre-running syndrome because of turrets. Wesker and Chucky have in-chase mobility and they counter #1 problem that killer have in the game which is pre-running and free pallet break transitioning. From my personal opinion, Xeno add-on are really boring. dull and uninteresting. Xeno is not as forgiving to play. The skill-floor to use Nemesis whip is lower then Xeno. that would my list of reasons to why xeno is not popular.
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@[Deleted User] said:
One change I'd love to see for Doctor is an increasing amount of madness skill checks for Tier 1. Respectfully now it's 33% increased for T1 & 66% increased for T2.
Tier 3 doesn't even count because all you do is Snap out of it.
T1 make it 44% increased chance
T2 make it 77% increased chance
Basekit all madness skill check success zones should be reduced by 20% (does not stack with Unnerving Presence).
the madness skill-check are too easy that increase % will do very little. every match that i have played with doctor, survivor calibur is so high that nobody misses any skill-checks. the only good aspect of madness skill-checks is that it makes hyperfocus less effective.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633664#Comment_3633664
I second that. Slog Merchant was a mistake and it is apparent that the devs are not willing to make the necessary changes. She is the only killer in DBD history to receive 2 reworks (in the span of 1/2 year no less) and she is still terrible. She cannot be redeemed.
Sadako.
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his problem is map dependency on lockers. the power is designed to cut survivor off by teleporting to lockers but you rely on locker placements to cut survivor off and these locker placement are predictable teleport.
My thought on how to fix this problem would be to add dark remnant in nightfall that work similar to trapper's traps where you can target these remnant as teleport locations. So if the map has poor locker spots, Nightfall gives opportunity for dredge to have good locker spots. This would significantly buff Dredge in nightfall making him play like Mint Rag Hag that can teleport on command.
The other QOL change that would really help is reducing his ambient noise radius in nightfall. Currently the radius feels like 16 meters. I would reduce this to 8 meters. those are two main improvement he needs. Less map dependency and better nightfall stealth.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632601#Comment_3632601
Others are forced to play like that. Encouraging them to play in a way that better suits them is only going to help less killers tunnel. These are baby steps that could lead to something bigger in the future.
People calling tunneling something it isn't is not relevant to this discussion - I don't want this discussion to be sidetracked into a what's tunneling discussion.
All suggestions made here can, in no way, punish people that don't tunnel or even be expolitable. if so, I'd like an example.
Tunneling is a big issue and it should not be understated. No playstyle will ever shadow it due to its effectiveness and little skill requirement.
grim embrace is a perk that rewards killer spreading hooks. that will make killer spread hooks but survivor won't enjoying playing vs that perk because constant gen-blocking is anti-survivor gameplay.
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garden of joy infinity still exists. haddonfield infinity windows still exist. mother dwelling still has main building window. growning storehouse an infinity-type window. Bloodlust still exists because all these windows still exist.
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@OrangeBear said:
It's not about "locking playstyles out" it's about reducing their effectiveness and fixing the frustrations people have with it.
Nerfs are and should be higher priority. Buffs are lower priority because you can avoid the frustration of weak items by simply not using them, you can't choose to not go against things that frustrate you.
the nerfs effectively lock play-styles out because the perk is so trash that there is no reason to run it. for example, i liked playing sloppy butcher+thanatophobia that revolved around anti-healing as game-delay with decrease repair speed. With current thana, 2% is garbage reward to the point that reducing effectiveness is mild term to say deleted. thana got deleted and soon sloppy will get deleted.
that what the player means by the term "locking playstyles out".
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632047#Comment_3632047
And then survivors equip Off the Record and Made for This to bodyblock while off-hook and then become borderline uncatchable when the killer attempts to punish them for using their defensive perks offensively. Killer loses even when trying to chase other survivors.
When you give anything to survivors, you have to ask yourself, "Will people use this for reasons other than its intended purpose?" Because if they can, they will.
I don't get why this matters. If your chasing survivor A and survivor B bodyblock's you. you hit them and chase survivor A. The combo effects killer that hit BT and specifically tunnel/chase survivors post hit.
they'd need to change something about skull merchant, deathslinger and legion as those killer would be unplayable. Maybe it would be something like those killer apply mangled+hemorrhage on their ability to simulate their lore of applying stronger wounds instead of deep wound. Overall, you'll see less killer tunnel survivors off hook. if they do tunnel, have fun chasing those speedy survivors.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632047#Comment_3632047
So blight would still be moving at 115 at least and nurse would flat out ignore it.
In your scenario I still ignore it if I ever tunneled as blight. I stand by the idea that tunneling is unhealthy but not op until A tier killers are involved. They need to make the consequence so absurd even a current alch ring blight on a top 1% level couldn't viably tunnel you out, then buff m1 aspects/killers to compensate.
I only commented on what I would do to ds because of the nature of this thread, I'd prefer it base kit. Although I've always hated the idea of limiting what killers do to a linear path, I already do so myself so it makes no difference to me at this point.
Every killer is the same. Get to tile < kick gen first even if a free hit is available< then chase but probably drop to go back to hook. Eruption rotted killers brains.
i think nurse's blink is based off m/s. i wonder if it would affect her blink speed like the reverse old bad man's last breath. I don't kick any pallets as nurse so I never tried to blink with chemical trap debuff. The result would be very slow blink if it works. 50% hindered for 10 second for DS is no joke.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631836#Comment_3631836
But then mobility killers moving at 200%+ will just ignore it. Just make is 5 seconds or even 6 seconds, plus disable power for 3-4 seconds too.
i think he's talking about chemical trap hindered penalty like 50% for 10 seconds. So even if you high mobility killer, your m/s will be slower than survivor. DS is wrong perk to buff if the goal was to deter tunneling.
The perk i would recommend buffing is Made For This. Instead of 3% haste for when your in deep wound, make it like 10% haste. Watch as killer become terrified to hit borrow time and off the record to trigger this deadly buff. that is great deterrent to stop chasing the same survivor.
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increase the duration from 60 second to 80 seconds to be on par with Off the record.
Remove end-game penalty.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631833#Comment_3631833
I felt like the original version had a too small radius for it to be worthwhile even with the 8% bonus. Unless you were on a two-story indoor map there was very little wiggle room to work with there because if you went much closer than 24 meters the killer would just see the other survivor (or hear the gen being worked on) and switch targets. Even if your teammate led the killer away and you then took over repairs on the generator, you weren't getting the benefit of the perk anymore.
The new one has a lower bonus but I feel like it's slightly better because the bigger range means it will work more often and it will be less common for the killer to end up switching targets since you can be a little further away now.
i think both versions are worthless because uptime. 5% repair speed implies that you have bonus permanently active for all 90 second of the gen. It saves you 5.3 seconds. You have get chased for full 90 seconds to get that reward but when you factor in the radius limit, your not saving 5.3 seconds. your saving like 1 second. After that, you have consider that a survivor looping a killer for 90 seconds often means that survivor is very likely to win the match regardless of the perk being equipped.
The only saving grace is that the perk does affect all survivor on your team so if 3 people are on 3 separate gens, everyone saves 1 second for 20 seconds of looping but that is still not worth it. Until they make this perk global, it won't be worth the perk slot.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631592#Comment_3631592
I just want the character to be balanced, but yes it was fun when the windup was non existent and you could go for funny shots, also no slinger was never a 0.2s windup it was just no wind up you could instantly shoot, but id like to see them try 0.3s for a while to see if that makes him more fun to play
i do not think the shot was ever instant. The ADS time is same time as current xeno tail of 0.2. When his ADS was 0.2, you could still react to the shot because of the travel distance of the gun. It is just that survivors reacting to his gun took survivor skill and a bit of prediction. slinger needs easy access stealth and quick ADS time to have an identity. His current iteration has little reason to exist as a killer.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631551#Comment_3631551
His TR was 24m an oversight when his range is 18m and monitor reduced it to 16m, but still being able to shoot immediately was also rightfully changed, you can't react to it and you could abuse the threat of zoning with no speed lost instead because there was no time between starting and stopping ads near instant to start and end.
https://youtu.be/ML4kp4Tv1Ww?si=vTkVvLrxPUCoGoGx&t=183
just the first few seconds of this video is enough, look at that complete lack of delay of winding up the weapon and shooting, imagine in 0.2s you go from being fine to instantly being attached to a 40m/s projectile you couldn't react to or even try to dodge with no windup
I think the windup up is 100% justified but he should just be buffed a bit in other ways more than just remove the delay (I think the delay could be reduced from 0.4s to 0.3s but no lower and not removed at most)
xeno has tail attack has 0.2 wind-up. I miss 0.2 wind-up slinger. Stealth ranged and lower wind-up is what made deathslinger a fun killer to play. if there was an add-on to reduce deathslinger base m/s to 105% but decrease wind-up to 0.2, I would use the add-on. I would care more about killer being fun to play then the killer being good at winning matches.
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@OneGoodBoyDemo said:
It is well known that the Déjà vu buff is a bandaid fix for the 3-gen solution and now that a plausible solution is coming, I have this feeling that perhaps the speed buff should be reversed.
I know that a good part of the community thinks this perk is not as good as it seems but I have seen the use of this perk increasing more and more and my experience as a veteran player at a high rank has been quite negative.
I'm realizing that the resilience and déjà vu combo is getting very frustrating in high ranks because if we're being honest, experienced players don't care about being injured and generators are being repaired very quickly.
I just had a match with 4 survivors using this combo and well... you can already imagine the result.
Maybe I'm wrong but I'd like to know your opinion on this perk!
Your talking about current survivor meta. 4 deja vu is already common. the teams that give me most trouble as killer are deja vu teams. deja vu has been terrifying ever since its buff for gen-rushing.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
If you mean bringing instascope back, then nah, that deserved to be removed and has no place in this game. Imagine if Huntress could just hold a hatchet up and throw it at any time while still moving at 4.4m/s. That's basically what old Slinger was, only difference being he needed to reel you in afterwards.
huntress has bigger hitboxes on hatchets and has more ammo. deathslinger is too weak and needs Insta-scope back to be an attractive ranged killer selection. Saying that it has no place in the game is agreeing that deathslinger should be deleted from the game.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630675#Comment_3630675
That’s why I said it’s probably a controversial topic. I’m sure plenty of people are attached to their chosen perks and the idea of 3 perks per character, but in the end, I do think my suggestion would make for a better game. People will just need to adjust. I admit that I could be totally wrong with this and it could kill the game, but I strongly believe the devs should at least make a team to at least try it out and have some players beta test it.
I do agree with your suggestion of cutting down with the frequency of new characters. Rather than the standard 4 chapters/killer releases a year, they could cut it down to three or even two chapters a year. It would give them more time to work on new perks and killer powers while ironing out bugs. It could potentially give them more time to even take risks with new gameplay mechanics in beta mode and see what response they get from the playerbase.
my guess to why they're not doing that is because of their business model. You see, if they re-vamp perks or modify killers, they get no income. you don't need pay for modifications. When they release Chucky... or Wesker, you need pay for the chapter to access content. So if they suddenly start decreasing chapter count, they will lose income. The obvious problem is that.... the game does not need more chapters or more content. It has enough content as is. It only needs refine its current content. The question is how long will BVHR be able to keep releasing content for revenue.
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@Atom7k said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630897#Comment_3630897
While lightborn might become more regulary the pickrate of plague and skull merchant is pretty low. Yet I do face this almost every match. Especially on evenings when I want to play bit after work it seems there are lots of swf teams around who all bring a build like this + red addon medkits.
So if I just throw the game once I realise it's this kind of match again, that would make up 80 % of the matches. I take the longer queue wait time in this case tbh
I think we should either come up with a game system that does not allow swf's to have the same characters and builds 4 times (2 max) or divide the player base by adding 'casual, tournament and hardcore (no perks no add-ons no items)' game modes to the game.
believe it or not, the game is balanced around you being able to run 4 of the same build. "competitive scene" tries to nerf survivor by limiting the perks. The obvious problem is that killer that are unplayable are unplayable because they're too weak and no amount of perk restriction is going change the killer's lack of viability. In short, BVHR is bad at balancing killers into optimal power-level. With that being said, your image is 4k meaning your not having trouble with the killer your playing.
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@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629960#Comment_3629960
If you think the red stain is the reason survivors can mindlessly play tiles, I'm sorry to inform you you are very wrong.
Chase with demanifested Sadako on Garden of Joy or The Game and let me know how your chases go.
The red stain in itself allows skill expression from the killer side and removing it would make the game more stale.
I already know, they're 5 gen chase like. some of the most imbalanced m1 loops exist on those maps.
The red stain in itself allows skill expression from the killer side and removing it would make the game more stale.
Adds free wall-hacks for survivor in my opinion.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630012#Comment_3630012
It's been a while since I've last seen Dramaturgy and Scene Partner. Plot Twist was mostly used in niche builds purely to annoy the killer. But its usage has gone down considerably.
Chemical Trap is a very underrated perk in my opinion. It's no meta changer but it's definitely quite decent. Using it on a good pallet (one that you can actually play around) puts the killer in a difficult position where they either need to bite the bullet and break the pallet or try to play around it, which can take forever. It's no SB, Adrenaline, Resilience, We'll Make It, WoO, Lithe or Deja Vu though. So it's already bad in the minds of many players. We both know that many people only care about meta perks.
That was my point. I did not try to defend BHVR's perk design in this case. But a lower pick rate doesn't automatically mean that a perk is weak. According to Nightlight, DMS has only a 4.8% pick rate. That's pretty low considering its strength. But as long as there are better perks, that is enough for many players not to use it.
I definitely agree that many perks that have come out recently aren't good (the overwhelming majority tbh) and they could be buffed / reworked (sometimes number changes cannot balance a flawed design). However, I object the idea that meta perks are more popular than anything else simply because the alternatives are all bad. Sometimes they just require thought.
I am still in awe at how few people actually run Bond in solo queue. Yes, it's a perk that a full SWF on comms will not need but in solo queue it's extremely helpful. It tells you what your team mates are doing, gives you useful information about who is chased in what area (indicating which areas to avoid later on), shows you where to go for heals, gives you an idea of the killer's position, shows you where other people work on gens (so you also know where the gens are) and you can even use it to prevent a 3 gen. Yet, how many people actually use it? Not that many because other perks are easier to use. Like WoO for example.
It's the same for killers. Whenever a new killer comes out, the first thing you'll see most people (especially popular content creators) do to find out their strength is to slap the same generic build on them, that they use on every single killer in the game. And then they find out that what they're doing doesn't work and immediately blame it on the killer being too weak. It can't be that maybe a different build would work better after all.
Chemical trap has too much gen progression required. You need to be chased to use the perk to good degree but if your being chased as first chase then you will not be able to use the perk because your being chased/tunneled to death.
When you equip Chemical trap, you get two types of games
Game A) You get chased entire match unable to do any gen progression.
Game B) You are not chased entire match and have chemical trap entire game. You can try to do some weird bodyblock pallet play with it but it is awkward when your not using the perk for yourself. Your often just wasting your time and throwing because your doing not doing gens.
The perk would be way better if it was active from the start of the match. Maybe it works like deliverance where if you safe unhook, the perk reactivates. It is not really underrated and BVHR is releasing a better version of the perk called Champion of light where all you need to do is shine flashlight.
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@CrypticGirl said:
I'm not sure why this is necessary. You could just move on to the next match before the current one finishes. Or you can spectate your remaining teammates.
It is SWF problem. basically your partner dies so you have spectate the match. Sometimes if your the killer player, you'll notice that one player is a swf so when you kill them, the other player just suicides... and kills themselves on hook instead of playing out the match.
In solo, the player will just preemptive leave and find another match.
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you do not need much LOS to counter main event. main event duration is more for slugging/snowballing for trickster so that his 4vs1 pressure doesn't suck. He is one of few killer where he can use slugging as form of game-delay because of how quickly he can machine health-states. ME duration add-on's do not need any changes.
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then you would need skill to loop as survivor. cannot have that.
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@okaayletsgoo said:
Why are they even in the game? They aren't loopable (anymore after the change to haybail side which I understood) and they are always in the middle of a huge dead zone with a gen or two next to them. It's an absolute joke on these already baren maps. They need to be removed or changed completely
they're for balance landing players. It is like hills. I just don't understand why the hills have to be massive in size rather then small spots like Toba landing hills.
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the map needs nerfs but looking at garden of joy rework, i am not seeing much of difference. Mother dwelling still has infinity windows, only thing changed was size.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
Right now the most frustrating aspect of playing chucky is his long cooldown, making power drill feel like a necessity to run and encourages overly safe playstyles with scamper.
Though just a reduction in cooldown would make scamper extremely powerful, so I think both should be adjusted at the same time.
- His cooldown should be reduced to 12s (from 18s)
- His scamper outside of slice n dice should be increased to 1.8s (from 1.4s)
- His scamper inside slice n dice should be decreased to 1.2s (from 1.4s)
- And then reworks to his cooldown add ons, drill and screwdriver
After that he would become one of the best designed killers in the game in my opinion.
Chucky has potencial to be S-tier killer above all killers, even nurse and blight. It is just his power restrictions make him a lot worse then he's suppose to be. I do agree that power-drill feels necessary to run. Maybe just adding 30% power-drill into his base-kit would be good. So you get punished if you miss but you get rewarded with hits if your good at his ability. the add-on itself would be reduced to 10%.
The other changes don't seem necessary. he operates fine with current values. The other aspect that would be nice is his old flick back.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629537#Comment_3629537
Thats a much bigger buff then you think it is, since then you can pair it up with plenty of other items and effects to have long streaks of multiple perk triggers and effects, for the most egregious example you could us DH, DS, Off the record, and a styptic, you theoretically could, use OTR endurance buy time and not let them wait out endurance, go down after your 2 hits, use DS, get up and get more chase time, use DH the next time they would land a hit, no deep wound effect, and then use the medkit for icing on the cake and another hit to extend the chase even more.
And even at worst its still a huge buff since the little bit of extra time a killer might gain if DH forces them to give up a chase no longer gives the killer 12s of mending time on that survivor.
It doesn't need that buff not in the slightest especially since effectively can use it like that just running an anti-tunneling perk which already has perfect synergy with it. And it would just make the combos egregious, theres a reason deep wound applies to endurance perks we had a whole ptb of taking 5 hits to go down this effectively does the same thing.
yeah i guess it is too much of a buff.
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@bjorksnas said:
The fact that 1-2 on demand endurance hits a game doesn't sound like a strong enough perk just sounds wrong. It was and still is one of the strongest effects in the game to take a hit and not go down and the fact that perks like mettle of man have massive drawbacks just to have easy usage of this effect is telling that a perk that lets you take a risk ~2 times per match to get them with no investment other than just having the perk is crazy strong in the right hands. Saying it should have a dash like it used time (assumedly on top of endurance) or have even more uses after its active is way to much.
If you consider the 1v1 sure it might not feel massive to get an extra hit for another 15s of chase an average survivor might get but in the 4v1 that is a massive time gain from 1 use of 1 perk and thats on an average survivor now imagine a competent survivor or a team all using it 1 chase 3 hits and 3 gens gone hit and run doesn't matter since they all get 2 hits anyway while injured so no point in healing only mending, that or just use it safely to a pallet or window and extend the chase instead with no risk, nope its barely fine as is doesn't need any buffs.
the perk is pretty good but the problem is that killer can hit you and put you on deep wound if they tunnel. only small buff i would give to the perk is to make ignore a hit instead of tank a hit like Mettle of man. This means that even if you are in deep wound, you can still use DH.