Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@Emeal said:
I am not able to answer for bHVR why the map was changed, but lets critique the original.
- You could see 2/8 of all movements paths around the map unobstructed from one corner.
- From the same corner, you would be able to look down unobstructed half of all ways the Killer could come to you.
- Seeing the Killer down any hallway gives survivors a LONG headstart on a chase.
The new changes fixes that.
yep. i think general issue is that survivor in this map just hold-w 24/7 as head-start in front of the killer so killer realize their chases are too long because of pre-running, so they just camp hooks between hallways because chasing is impractical. as a result, the map has high kill-rate because of how strong hook camping is on this map.
@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795402#Comment_3795402
It was one of the highest kill rate maps for killers already. It wasn‘t a map where killers struggled.
Main issue was how boring it could be. You literally got to run marathon there with easy LoS, so impossible to mind game.
Like everything has to be only perfect for killers (Rant against behavior). There wasn’t much more survivors can do besides running, which is more and more behaviors balancing idea, but even that is too much now. They just put a small object next to a pallet and call it a day. The old pallets were so much more useful than the new ones and now the killer has an even easier time getting to survivors who can‘t know where the killer is. The map already suffered from a lack of windows, which makes you run out of pallets relatively fast.
I find it extremely boring and unfun what behavior does to newer and old maps. They just put there no or almost useless loops, make it extremely small and give the killer 20 short cuts, so that they can‘t loop nor run away. Then as killer I have the easiest matches and only feel bad for survivors.
the old maps are changing because they were too strong for current killer cast. it is easier for BVHR to weaken maps than it is for them to improve low-tier weak killers. so they're choosing former over latter.
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@MrMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794515#Comment_3794515
If they change him I'm sure they'll make him stronger. He's not particularly strong right now, just annoying and even more hated by survivors than before the rework. There's no guarantee he'll get changed any time soon, but I'm hoping for something in 2025 at least.
he is more hated by survivors because he is more effective. BVHR often makes changes oriented around survivor's fun so they're more likely to nerf him then buff him. he is alright as a killer if you have good aim but he is not exactly time efficient killer at aggressively chasing survivor around the map. he would been closer to being more time efficient if his ptb form went fully through with less add-on dependency. it is hard for them to make big sweeping changes on weaker killers because backlash on the gameplay not being fun or whatever other excuse survivors come up with.
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@ArthurVeloso said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795073#Comment_3795073
The argument presented suggests that Spine Chill was too easily countered by killers who could walk backward to avoid triggering the perk, and that Premonition should not be buffed as it offers less counter-play for killers. However, this view oversimplifies both the issue with Spine Chill and the potential utility of Premonition in its current or improved form.
While it’s true that killers could walk backward to avoid triggering Spine Chill, this required them to sacrifice speed and, in many cases, time. Walking backward is not an efficient or reliable strategy for every killer, especially during moments where they need to pressure survivors or secure key objectives. In practice, many killers would still trigger Spine Chillunintentionally, making the perk valuable for skilled survivors who capitalized on those moments.
Premonition, on the other hand, is an active perk that provides a directional warning when a survivor is facing the killer within a 45-degree cone. Importantly, Premonition does not require line of sight, meaning it can trigger even through walls or obstacles, but it still offers limited information. Survivors don’t know the exact distance or location of the killer, and since the perk only triggers when the survivor is looking in the killer's general direction, there is still a degree of unpredictability involved. The killer could be farther away, approaching from an angle that doesn't immediately threaten the survivor, or simply moving in a way that doesn’t immediately result in a chase.
The argument that Premonition offers less counter-play ignores these inherent limitations. Survivors relying on Premonition must continuously adjust their view and position to receive its warnings, and it provides no information about how close the killer is or whether the killer is even aware of the survivor's presence. Killers can still approach survivors from behind, flank them, or use their game sense and stealth to catch survivors off guard despite Premonition's warnings.
The suggestion that the only counter-play to "pre-running" is to use high-mobility killers like Nurse, Blight, or Billy is too narrow. Killers have various tools to create pressure, including perks, map control, and mind games. Pre-running is not a foolproof strategy, and many killers excel at predicting survivor movement and using map design to their advantage, even if survivors are trying to get a head start on loops. The idea that only high-mobility killers can counter this strategy overlooks the diversity of playstyles and killer abilities available.
Finally, removing the cooldown for Premonition would not create an overwhelming advantage for survivors. The perk would simply provide more frequent directional information without significantly affecting the core dynamics of the game. Killers still have ample opportunities to outplay survivors, even if the survivors use Premonition more frequently. It would give survivors a chance to react more actively to killer pressure, but it wouldn’t provide them with an insurmountable advantage.
In conclusion, buffing Premonition by removing the cooldown would give survivors a slightly more reliable detection tool without compromising killer counter-play. It would strike a fair balance between skill-based survivor information and the need for killers to adapt their strategies without resorting to niche tactics like walking backward to avoid detection.
there is still a degree of unpredictability involved. The killer could be farther away, approaching from an angle that doesn't immediately threaten the survivor, or simply moving in a way that doesn’t immediately result in a chase.
I disagree, there is no unpredictability in the ping as player hovering over in general direction will get ping on the most outer ring of the perk. It is like whisper for killer, you know exactly where survivor is alongside a line and this allows survivor to pre-run directly or to walk preemptively, see which direction goes and then run in opposite directly.
pre-running is one of the most imbalanced mechanics on killer side in the game in my opinion. the vast majority of killer have little to no counter-play when it is done correctly. it is one major skill-differentiates between low-level SWF and top-level SWF. Every chase becomes a bad chase for killer when pre-running from time efficient stand-point.
i wanted suggest something that heavily hinders this mechanic however i couldn't come up with something that doesn't turbo buff 3 gen defending. one idea i had was to make it so that survivor have animation between letting go off gen which lasts 2.5 seconds. This prevents gen-tapping however dev beat and created an idea when a killer kick a gen, you need repair 5% to stop regression. The other mechanic was that if a killer is outside of chase and they're following scratch marks, they gain bloodlust 3 as long they touch the scratch marks that they follow. this allows killer to catch-up if a survivor is like 20 meters ahead of survivor where they're just out of chase and your just following them. Think of RPD long hallways or Midwich where this is more common due to map layout even in soloq.
personally i think survivor should be rewarded more on stealth and understanding the terror radius heartbeat and less on running forward to waste killer's time. Buffing a perk that enables pre-running to be more consistent is hard-negative with current landscape of dbd. SWF still have this universal advantage that is wildly not balanced outside of extreme mobility killers but SWF has never balanced.
part of reason why killer camp is because vs high-level teams, a swf that pre-run makes every chase take 20 second+ to catch-up so when every chase is terrible for killer, only play that killer has is to camp hooks because it is only time where killer gets head start instead of survivor. that is also a large reason why a lot of swf wins for killer happen on 3 gens because the killer universally can't pressure the entire map due to pre-running. so the only time they get fair chases is at very end of the game where 3 gen are close together where killer has opportunity to not be super far behind or in camping scenario. Unfortunately, since this problem only exists at very pinnacle of survivor-skill, it is not a problem that BVHR is likely to not address any time soon.
what BVHR is currently doing with most killer is that they're spamming haste almost every killer that is immobile to make killer less ineffective vs gameplay OR they're adding artificial mobility skills in killer kit such as Vecna fly, Dracula's bat teleport, Unknown clone teleport or you get some sort of haste effect or large speed boost. examples are like Trickster's Iri photo card, Skull merchant's haste, Knight's haste, Trapper's haste, buffing clown, adding haste add-on to huntress, short dashes such as Chucky or Wesker. they're all attempts on new killers to weaken pre-running. Some of these end up being somewhat successful while other barely do anything to solve the problem. As most things related to BVHR, very hit or miss.
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@ArthurVeloso said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795064#Comment_3795064
Thank you very much!
A killer could walk backwards to avoid spine chill, premonition is based off survivor looking in killer direction. so replace spine chill with a perk that has less counter-play. I am not entirely sure what a killer play is suppose to do vs pre-running other than play high mobility gap-closing killers like Nurse, Blight and billy.
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@Sow said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794970#Comment_3794970
I do appreciate him glowing and I do my best in those trials but after the 3rd nightfall my eyes just say screw it. My ADHD brain legitimately has a limit when dealing with Nightfall. After a few times my brain just shuts off and I zone out while running into things lol.
I like the theme I really do but the narrow vision and how dark every thing is, makes focusing a chore. I don't find it fun feeling like I gotta shove my face to my monitor to see anything. Seriously if Nightfall was reduced 30% of it's screen coverage. I wouldn't even care about the timer. It's genuinely just how dark the screen gets. Even when I look to see if others are having issues with this. It's the same as me. The theme itself is not bad but the screen part is just annoying after awhile.
sounds like health issue. BVHR does to some degree attempt accommodate health issues such as hearing impaired but they can't exclusively make changes around killers involving health issues. they cannot make a box option box for dredge where it lower nightfall darkness for ADHD because player without ADHD would use it for competitive advantage.
Side Note- This is not directed at high MMR 2k+ hours or SWF. This is revolving around solo queuing. Majority of the players are not as skilled/knowledgeable as "high MMR survivors" nor are they as coordinated.
BVHR strictly has no reason to balance around you. if anything, BVHR should be balanced around +2k hour/SWF because those are player that play the game optimally. if your unable to play the game optimally, you should be accepting losses due insufficient skill/inability to play the game. BVHR balancing around you makes killer unable to play vs proper players just so YOU can have fun. It is design idea that i have never really agree with. punishing higher skilled player for sake of worse players that can become better.
Why does Skull Merchant do what she does… cause that's her theme.
why I see many survivors killing themselves on hook or straight up DC. Majority of complaints I read are not hating on the theme but hating on how much of the screen is covered.
The logic above applies to her as well. I also don't agree with practice that BVHR uses D/C as ways to change killers because it rewards survivor to d/c over and over because the end result is them getting their way.
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BVHR will just nerf killer aura perks that over-perform. no issues. Looking at play-rates, i think it is obvious which ones are the most common.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794778#Comment_3794778
You'd end up with a pre-nerf Tinkerer situation. Especially considering that missing the skill check would ALWAYS regress it before the activation point.
exactly. it would be an amazing perk. i'd use it for sure. right now i don't use it because of 1 trigger activation use per gen requirement.
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@Sow said:
Generally speaking I don't think most people hate Nightfall. Although there are plenty of complaints regarding it. Not because the concept is bad but the reduce vision is tiresome or annoying after awhile.
Your concept of how companies deal with complaints is wishful thinking. The top 10% in most games dictate nerfs/buffs. Usually only when a "content-creator(s)" complains and has a influential following with said company. Then and only then do things sometimes happen. Rarely do they actually listen to the majority of their playerbase.
Why did I post this despite the majority of players generally speaking will never have their ideas heard? Same concept as you thinking a company would actually listen to the complaint, wishful thinking. Also maybe it felt a bit therapeutic lol.
At the end of the trial you have the option to express how much fun you had. Most players who verse Dredge and experience Nightfall… I wouldn't be surprised if the statistics show*(edited grammar) the "fun-ratio" is 2 on average. Although how do the Devs determine what wasn't fun? Was it the locker teleporting??? Was it Nightfall or the anti-looping ability??? Is it the terror radius or the sound of it? Maybe the server was just laggy and wasn't fun? It's a neat feature but generally speaking it's pretty useless to solving the actual problem.
Glad you don't see an issue with Nightfall, but I do and I see others clearly are not having a good time with Nightfall. Nearly all the complaints I've seen have to do with the visual reduction. Majority of players don't have issues with Nightfall itself. Although it makes it hard to see and for some either it hurts the eyes or becomes annoying after 3+ times. I'm not saying you are a Nea main but crouching and hiding for 60 seconds is the kind of gameplay loop Nea-crouching around the map players would find "a-o-kay".
I'd rather just die in chase even if it lasts 10 seconds. Those 10 seconds are 1000x more enjoyable than sitting behind a wall waiting for 60 seconds mate.
the main theme of the killer is to reduce visibility. that is core concept of the killer. they will not remove core concept of the killer although they strangely did remove clown's pink gas visibility mechanic but that is likely because clown core concept is speed and not reduced visibility.
I'm not saying you are a Nea main but crouching and hiding for 60 seconds is the kind of gameplay loop Nea-crouching around the map players would find "a-o-kay".
There is no hiding in nightfall. the dredge gains 16 meter of killer instinct whenever he teleport to a locker and cooldown is significantly reduced for teleporting. your suppose to work on generators while in nightfall. the only form of defence that you get in nightfall is that you can lock lockers a single time to delay dredge when coming out of a locker.
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Dredge just got buffed. there is no chance any of these ideas would ever happen. they are not going redesign nightfall. at worst case scenario, they will tune down the numbers of Dredge to their previous iteration if enough survivor complain about said power. That is how BVHR generally handles complaints.
i don't see anything wrong with dredge's nightfall.
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i would rather they remove condition where it only triggers on a generator once. Make it work unlimited amount of times. it might be too powerful so i am not sure.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
Commodious and event toolboxes just need their charges reduced to 16 or 18, so they aren't the best repairing toolboxes.
The Engineer's Toolbox should be the best repairing toolbox, since it has a higher rarity, but the Commodious and event toolboxes are just so much better at repairing because of the 32 charges.
historically, engineer toolbox has never been best toolbox for repairing. the engineer toolbox has always been the "Use all your charges" instantly toolbox. this was true when toolbox had 80 charges and it is still true when toolboxes have half the charges.
realistically, i don't face sabo very much post-changes anymore than i faced it post-buffs.
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I can say same thing for how stbfl being nerfed has had similar effects on killer. either way, i don't think self-healing is nerfed enough to be meaningful because med-kits are still effective self-heals.
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i do that all the time, especially when i have hooked survivor near hook. i don't see much point in hooking 2nd survivor. i rather slug survivor, ignore BT and use hook stage as threat to get 2nd hook. the gameplay in practice allows you to keep pressure and farm hook stages faster if done right.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794534#Comment_3794534
It's definitely overpowered without a shadow of a doubt. I just gave 4 reasons on why it's overpowered and those points still stand. Killers are told to stop relying on aura reading perks and use "game sense" to locate survivors. I say stop relying on WoO and use "game sense" to recognize tiles before you get to them, predict where pallets will be in said tiles and pay attention to where your teammates are looping and what pallets have been used.
It is factually an overpowered perk. It literally makes me at the very least 2x better at looping. And when I hit a survivor who uses WoO with the Amanita Toxin add on for Huntress, its blatantly obvious that some of them rely on this perk way to heavily.
The problem with Pain Rez is that it's not overpowered at all on weak killers but dramatically overpowered on Nurse and Blight. Certain killers being significantly better than others heavily skews the view on killer perks. But all survivors are the same so there perks don't have to take into account for that.
Not only would I say it's overpowered but I say without a doubt in my mind; it is hands, down bar none the strongest perk in the entire game for survivors. The only thing that was ever stronger was original Object Of Obsession.
The problem with Pain Rez is that it's not overpowered at all on weak killers but dramatically overpowered on Nurse and Blight.
Right, but they would not nerf the perk, they would nerf the killer until killer is not overpowered with said perk. for reference, i don't think blight is overpowered but i think most people likely find his gameplay unfun. It is likely same thing that i say for nurse. I find nurse's gameplay unfun for survivor. I don't think nurse is overpowered from statistic winning stand-point but i think her gameplay loop in 1vs1 is not balanced very well for survivor. I think a large reason to why it is not balanced is up/down mechanic giving nurse too much control+her base teleport speed of blinks being too fast allowing for killer favoured situations to occur very easily where the hit is inevitable/very difficult to outplay.
"game sense" to recognize tiles before you get to them, predict where pallets will be in said tiles and pay attention to where your teammates are looping and what pallets have been used.
these type of tips are often not very good because they are saying stuff like "Read your teammate mind". it is impractical advice for a lot players to follow. I don't use windows and i have very good game-sense but admittedly, i'll likely make a mistake like 8 minutes into the match where i went to a pallet that is broken. Not that it matters in a lot of cases because by that time, the game is won or loss in a lot of cases but making mistake like that early on like 2-5 minutes into the match can be game-losing.
Not only would I say it's overpowered but I say without a doubt in my mind; it is hands, down bar none the strongest perk in the entire game for survivors. The only thing that was ever stronger was original Object Of Obsession.
interesting take. I think WoO on average increases survivor's win-rate a lot from low-high mid MMR. in my opinion, the perk loses win-rate value directly proportional to SWF and skill-level of the survivor. If you take balance as absolute where most games are balanced at 0.1%, i don't think it increases win-rate more so than other perks.
in my opinion, the strongest perk in the game is 4 Streetwise with 4 toolboxes. that is just my opinion though.
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@Valimure said:
What you're proposing would be a max possible 200% regression. That's an extra 2 gens survivors would need to complete and way too much of a buff simply to counter tunneling.
Honestly if you wanted to play it like this it would need to be 10% regression per hook to bring it in line with what it currently is. Still does what you want, but wouldn't be quite nearly as busted.
so why is 200% regression broken?
@Akumakaji said:
It is used a lot, but only because there is no real competition. And it really can be extremely frustrating when one of your only 4 hooks gets completely wasted.
I honestly think that with my ideas implemented, the perk would be much healthier all around. This is the kind of carrot that we always talk about, but no one wants to give any thought about. Instead its always the stick, the stick, the stick.
my thoughts on pain res, don't make killer equip the perk, just put it base-kit.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794525#Comment_3794525
A perk that plays the game for you and removes any need to memorize anything or track where your teammates have been is in fact overpowered.
It literally does everything for you. You’ll never make a mistake and run to a loop where a pallet has been used. You’ll never fail to chain loops together. You’ll almost never fail to set up the fast vault because of it. It entirely removes any weak links from the team.
It belongs in the game but denying it being overpowered is delusional. It has a THIRTY PERCENT PICK RATE. People with 10,000 hours use it. That should tell you something.
it has 30% pick-rate because like 60% of player are like soloq. turns out, knowing what pallet are used by your teammate is an important piece of information to not making mistakes in the game.
pick-rate indicates the strength of a perk, it doesn't indicate that perk is overpowered but it indicates the perk being optimal. what you need figure out is WHY the perk is optimal. For new players, it is optimal perk because they have insufficient knowledge to loop and keep in mind that this is like 90% of player-base. for experienced players, it is optimal perk because it provides SWF-level type piece information that is required to optimize the game competitively speaking.
different perks have different reasons for why they're optimal. sometimes the reason why they're optimal is because they're overpowered, but sometimes, it is because something is lacking in the base game that the perk fulfills. an example is borrow time. borrow time used to have like 30% pick-rate but now it has a much lower pick-rate. today, borrow time is 2% pick-rate according to nightlight. Does that mean borrow time went from overpowered to balanced? Of course not. Borrow time solved a problematic issue of survivors being put into dying state as they got unhooked and its pick-rate was a result of the game lacking something for survivor. that is how the perk went from 30% to base-kit.
You can talk about same concept for killer perks. Like before Pain res got nerfed from 15% unlimited, it was also like 35% pick-rate perk. overpowered perk or solving problematic gameplay issue?
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
The problem is that if you want to conserve tokens then you have to breathe down their neck and M1 them. It’s a much better fit on killers that barely M1 to begin with like Huntress.
A great perk for sure but I would say underused but definitely overrated. Losing a Gen for 2 big lunges? Yeah I’ll pass. Bamboozle is the best chase perk bar none, completely nullifies shack, double single loops and most other high wall loops.
is it? coup the grace allows you to hit windows that are not possible.
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794115#Comment_3794115
Sorry can't run any chase related perks, need to stack all my slowdowns so I don't lose any of my games.
i often run 3 gen defence perks and coup the grace. i think coup is under-used because people don't know how to use it because skill-cap is high and if survivor skill-level for looping is low, then you don't need to use it which most survivor teams. Like if nobody running a single loop well, other perks are better.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
It is insane how much value it gives but new survivors desperately need that perk honestly.
It’s definitely overpowered whether survivors like to admit it or not, if it wasn’t; it wouldn’t have an over 30% pick rate. I got my first ever four gen chase the first time I ever used it.
playing the game well = overpowered
i sometimes get 3-4 chases if killer stubborn s chases me on strong maps but this is rare in higher mmr because good killer understand to drop chases that are poor.
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he is always had 44 knives for about 3 years now or something like that. he throws faster then before but takes 8 hits to injure instead of 6.
@MrMori said:
Always bring Memento Blades when you play Trickster for throwrate, he feels terrible without it. I figure he's going to get changes in 2025 judging by the way BHVR have been tweaking and improving killers recently.
His bonus main event duration addons are also really strong, so a cheap and effective combo is Memento Blades + Inferno Wires, the brown addon for duration. Or Tequila, the yellow addon for duration.
If you wanna shred people now, make sure you have decent line of sight. Then immediately after injuring with your first 8 blades, activate main event and shred the next health state. It only takes 8 blades to get main event now, so you can instantly follow up a blade injury with a main event.
if they do change him, please don't nerf him.
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@jesterkind said:
The problem with that is that some killers - like Trapper and Hag - are forced into one specific playstyle at best, and are actively harmed at worst, with a basekit Corrupt Intervention.
I understand what the goal is, or at least I think I do: give killers a hand with early game pressure because sometimes that can be really difficult. I just think there are better ways of addressing that than forcing everyone into the playstyle that Corrupt supports.
For instance, if the game changed so that survivors were forced to all spawn together, or at least in groups of two, the average early game experience for the killer would skyrocket due to the worst outcome no longer being possible.
i am pretty sure goal is just to add gen defence to the killer base-kit but i don't think early game is as problematic for killer. at least when i play killer, i get like 2 downs before i am losing gens. my problem is being able to hold gens after i am "doing" well. Like i am still just bleeding gens while ending chases very quickly. for low tier killer, their chases are still too long but that problem with those killer's balance over gen defence issue.
adding corrupt intervention will only strength camping heavy play-styles where more games will have less gen done in early stages promoting early second staging. ideally, it should be that the more active you play, the more rewarded you get instead of opposite for what corrupt enforces playing inactively to capitalize off its early game advantage.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794299#Comment_3794299
Basement unhook. "I went down near basement so now I get a free unhook and remove all of the killers pressure yippee!!!!".
Remove its free unhook and buff the aura reading to 30s and boom its much healthier.
explain why background player is top of list and sprint burst is little lower?
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i think turning is more issue.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793786#Comment_3793786
Wouldn't straight up removing the 3x penalty and nerfing the hunt duration bonus to 1.25x be easier? Makes assassin and carnifex easier to balance in chase, since assassins chase time will forever be too short if the penalty stays above 1.5x, which at that point it may as well not exist.
no, they invented that for jailer to premier pincer guard. it is just that penalty are too harsh even for jailer that you need to run dried horse meat to stay in proximity of jailer. it is too discourage using the assassin for pincers but assassin doesn't even work at getting hits because of distraction mechanic. so it is just hard useless vs good teams and has absurd cooldown. all the negatives for knight need to be dial down.
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@danielmaster87 said:
I see it exactly as much as it takes to make the perk annoying. In a team with near unbeatable survivors, they have it. In a team who's just "strong" enough to probably run it, I respect it, and that's what ends up costing me the game, making the objectively correct play in any other match. Sometimes I'll say screw it and tunnel 1 or 2 people, and if course they have DS, and were the only ones with DS. None of the ones I didn't tunnel had it. But it's so strong, and with tunneling allegedly being seen so often, you expect everyone to run it. There's no good reason not to.
Most people calling DS weak don't even realize why it's so strong. You're literally forcing the killer to go on a 4th chase to kill a survivor, and if you drop chase instead after they've used it, you basically gave them a free chase with nothing to show for it on your end. "Don't tunnel and you don't get DS'd." 1) That's wrong, because you can hook people so fast that you have multiple DSs active, you're not tunneling, and yet you get stunned, not just by 1 but sometimes by 2. 2) You have to tunnel to compete with good survivors. You just have to. You're never gonna get enough value from your gen perks, or kill survivors fast enough to beat them if you're splitting up hooks. I've tried it, you've tried it, comp killers have tried it.
So I've got 2 possible conclusions for why people don't run DS more. They either think it's weak because of groupthink, or they figure they can win without it. I wish it was the latter, but I'm pretty sure people just call it weak and that's the end of their thought. Their loss.
Agree. I see this perk all the time. the most stereotypical setup is Adrenaline/Hope, Deja vu, Lithe and Decisive strike for the suspect swf's that i have seen. basically deja vu to rush gens to use adrenaline, Lithe to waste time, DS to waste time if you tunnel.
@ReverseVelocity said:
It is decently common, but I guess it's mainly a combination of the fact that people prefer running other perks over DS, and that DS isn't as good at stopping tunnelling as it once was. It's only one second from the old 5s DS, but that makes a pretty big difference.
Nightlight ranks it in #10, so it's for sure one of the more common perks. I see it a bunch still as well, just not in like every other loadout.
I feel like all swf teams run it because they can afford to greed perks. like they don't use WoO or bond or kindred. so they just fill in second chance perks to waste your time.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793747#Comment_3793747
Totem builds are simply bad, Thrill is trash compare to previous version.
NOED is not meta, you need whole build around it.
Sloppy is not really better than addons at this point, it's just bad.
Whispers can be good on few killers. Issue is it also works on hooked survivor, so it won't help you find next chase easily.
Unrelenting is trash.thrill is a lot worse then before but because killer perk are so bad currently, i'd consider thrill to be better then 80% of killer perks and totem perk in general are among the better perks for killer again, just because all killer perk just don't do anything.
They have virtually no impact on whether you win or lose. that's how bad for most of killer perk are. survivor perks in comparison are not game-changing however they do work to some degree at fulfilling the perk role. A lot of killer perk don't even fulfill their role. that is how bad they are.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
I mean Judith's Tombstone itself is fine since it has a pretty astronomical penalty. Tombstone Piece is the busted one.
no they're both equally powerful because both them allow you to 99% EV2→eliminate survivor out of the game. Judith only 50% higher build-up because it can chain-instant moris but in practice, after you mori first time, survivor can jump into lockers prevent the chain. it is like risk vs reward.
for some reason, everyone always try mention his tuft of hair with it which mostly bad add-on only used for achievement. in practice, all of his mori builds involve his J.Myer's add-on with purple or iri mori add-on.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793998#Comment_3793998
Engineer’s Fang inflicts damage/takes a health state if you hit a survivor with the possessed chain. Do you play Pinhead..?
yes and because it does that, it gives speed boosts making BT extend chases. if you original pain on other hand, after 3 second of unhook immunity, you can chain survivor and immediately hit them off hook. also original pain has no downside for tunneling, engineer fang has downside.
I am fairely certain that it is add-on that OP is talking about.
@humanbeing1704 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793907#Comment_3793907
yeah I’ve had pinhead players do this and it’s essentially uncounterable
it is nearly uncounterable. it was more uncounterable before because there was a bug where you could chain someone as they got unhooked. this was a bug. the bug was fixed and now there is 3 second timer where chains will not spawn after being unhooked. nevertheless, unless you are able to dodge his chains shortly after being unhooked, pinhead is incredibly at tunneling off hook.
it is arguably his only real strength as his chase power is very bad and other strength he has is that if you know box spawn logic, you can spam the box by walking to it over and over and keep re-activating chain-hunt. This is very good for camping hooks and it is also really good for tunneling because box causes survivors to gain a scream notification(Like Rancor) which allows him to tunnel survivors that are on death hook.
So he is just, tunnel, tunnel. tunnel with game delay.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793907#Comment_3793907
While they do similar things, kinda, I’m pretty sure he’s describing Engineer’s Fang. Original Pain only inflicts deep wound when/if a survivor breaks a chain. Engineer’s Fang injures if a survivor is hit by Pinhead’s possessed chain.
engineer fang gives speed boost. original pain gives deep wound which does not give speed boost and because pinhead can break his own chains, Original pain is premier tunnel off-hook add-on in the game.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793566#Comment_3793566
That one is Engineer’s Fang and no you can still tunnel immediately off hook with it.
no, the add-on is called original pain. it makes so that whenever you chain someone, they are deep wounded allow you to m1 and go through borrow time.
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@caipt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793884#Comment_3793884
The killer has to down you for the suggested perk to trigger, since plot twist is self-triggered it would not activate the perk.
edited the post so i do not get these type of post. read chocolate post as he already points this out.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793884#Comment_3793884
No, read the perk again. It only works if the killer downs you with basic attack or specil attack (like blink, rush from blight, etc.)
ok, than it is just that boil over/sabotage stuff. you get punished if the map doesn't allow you to hook survivor or if survivor abuses pallet saves. i just don't agree with principal of this perk. maybe this perk would make more sense if it boosted your healing speed up to 100% allowing you to heal to healthy when killer does mass slug but again, it is just punishing killer for "playing well".
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793852#Comment_3793852
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793856#Comment_3793856
It would deactive everytime you are not bleeding on the ground (dying state). So if the killer picks you up or you go to injured state (with help or not) you will start loosing tokens, even if you are about to be on hoook / sitting on the hook.
a perk that rewards gen-rushing for being slugged.
it sounds abusable with boil over/sabotage. if a player finds a spot to be impossible to hook with boil over… like badham preschool with no basement, they can hop on a generator with a massive 100% repair boost and finish gens extremely quickly.
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new knight doesn't feel stronger because for every buff he received, he received an equally bad nerf.
→ Switching guards[Buff]
→Increased cooldown of guards from 3 second to 30 second, 25 second and 20 seconds.
→ Increased duration of guard chases based off distance for max of 2 and banner duration.
→ Added 3x depletion mechanic when near a guard within 8 meters.
→ Increased radius of guard patrols by 2 meters.
→ Added a 10 meter restriction to placing patrol guard paths.
than we have this global change:
-Added a distraction mechanic for AI.
==
The way to fix knight is to make negatives they give him less severe and in some cases….. fix exploits and bugs. Don't make them features.
"→Increased cooldown of guards from 3 second to 30 second, 25 second and 20 seconds for Carnifex, Assassin, Jailer."
→ Reduced Carnifex cooldown to 5 seconds.
→ When a guard successfully enters chase, reduces the cooldown of the guard by 60%.
Now knight is rewarded for landing guard chases but is equally punished when he misses guard chases.
==========
→ 3x depletion rate decreased to 2.5x meters when within 8 meters of a guard.
Now the jailer has 12.8 second chase and 16.8 which is similar to old guard duration's removing some dependency of Dried horse meat.
=======
→ Reduced 10 meter restriction to placing patrol guard paths from 10 meter to 8 meters.
======
→ Removed distraction mechanic that caused the guards to have irregular pathing when dropping a pallet or touching the side of a window.
New knight just feels same as old knight with a bunch of negatives that are too severe for the killer to be stronger. the cooldown is probably worst out of these negatives but other ones are not that much better. it is typical BVHR pondering towards survivor main players to attempt to neuter the killer power.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793573#Comment_3793573
Honestly I don't feel nurse needs any skill experession when her gameplay is just teleport ontop of survivor m1, repeat lol
i am just saying that taking control away from killer power weakens the killer. I am not saying that dracula cannot be balanced around not having tech, like for example you can reduce charge time of his pounce by -0.35 second so he is less likely to be LOS therefore doesn't need slide tech to gain angles at loops but that is a lot more brute force where the kit is being forced to be stronger than the player using their knowledge to outsmart loop. I was just using a nurse tech as an example of what removing the tech is like.
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@Brutha said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790740#Comment_3790740
I mean he was a high tier killer when he was first reworked then just nerfed down (Far too much) with the Twins they were just a slug machine with Freddy the worst I can imagine is him being high tier again and nerfed again. But lets hope BHVR knows what they're doing this time.
i am just hoping they bring back his aura reading. that was somewhat creative and interesting as gameplay loop that they invented for that killer.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793552#Comment_3793552
I don't think we should be coming for literally every single tech in the game, especially when a tech is literally just a technique/strategy used in a specific situation.
You'll end up with absolutely zero potential for skill expression if you remove every unique interaction in the game.
imagine they nerf nurse's up and down mechanic for blinking, like i consider that up and down blinking mechanic to be == hug tech for kiler's. she'd have so much less skill expression because less control on blinks.
that's what patching hug tech is. it is having less control over your ability → reduced skill-cieling on killer.
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@Reinami said:
His chains need to be buffed, Many times hitting the chain you barely gain any distance, if any at all over any decent distance, and if they dodge the chain, forget it, they are completely gone.
Looking at the math for it, when you chain a survivor, each chain takes 1 second to break, and the survivor moves at:
- 1.13 m/s with 3 chains
- 1.695 m/s with 2 chains
- 2.26 m/s with 1 chain.
So in total, during those 3 seconds, you reduce the distance a survivor can move from 12 meters to 5.09 meters. But, the time it takes to switch to the gateway camera is 0.5 seconds, then there is the slight travel time, but lets say you land the gateway literally on top of the survivor and its effectively 0. Then you have 0.25 seconds for the camera to switch back.
That amounts to 0.75 seconds where you are not moving AT ALL. So you give up 3.45 meters of distance doing that. Meaning that now you actually are only slowing a survivor distance down to 8.54 meters. where you are moving at full speed.
In summation,
- holding w and not using your chain, means that you gain 2.25 meters of distance on a survivor during the time you would be using your power.
- Using your chain and landing it PERFECTLY, you gain 5.26 meters of distance on the survivor.
And if you miss, or the survivor dodges, they gain massive distance. That makes the power not worth using most of the time.
The other problem with him on the survivor side is the RNG around the box can be miserable in regards to spawning, and you never know if your teammates are actually going for the box or not.
To combat this, these would be my suggested changes:
- Increase the time it takes for a survivor to break a single chain to 1.25 seconds from 1 second
- This turns it from gaining 5.26 meters of distance on perfectly landed chains, to instead gaining about 7.5 meters of distance. Making it a bit stronger
- Impaling wire becomes basekit. Every single cenobite is running this addon, it needs to just be basekit.
- Make it so the cenobite no longer breaks chains himself when running into them, it doesn't make sense to chain someone, and then have to walk around the chain to not break it, given the little distance gained when landing a PERFECT chain over just holding w. Having to walk around the chain makes you lose any distance you might have gained and is silly.
- Rework the original pin addon to do something else so it can't be used to hard tunnel
- Rework the box spawn logic so that it is more randomized and can't be figured out by the killer or the survivors based on where everyone is.
- Also fix it for maps like lery's where it literally has like 2 spawn points.
- Rework the box to work like:
- If a chain hunt is happening and you are holding the box, the person holding the box does not get chains spawning.
- It sucks for new players because they probably don't understand the timing for solving the box at that point and leads to just infinite chain hunts
- If a chain hunt is NOT happening, the box spawns chains on the survivor holding the box and disappear if they start solving the box, so that they are encouraged to actually solve the box quickly rather than hold onto it and hold it hostage.
- If a chain hunt is happening and you are holding the box, the person holding the box does not get chains spawning.
- Rework the Iridescent Lament Configuration to have a downside and be stronger so it isn't just straight up an upgrade. After making impaling wire basekit, this would become the new "always run this" addon.
- 10 seconds before a chain hunt starts, the survivors all see the aura of all other survivors for that duration
- This lets solo queue survivors see if their teammates are running for the box or not and they can figure out who needs to go for it.
there is also fact that when pinhead is using his gateway, his m/s for whatever reason is slowed to 90% similar how when nurse has fully charged blink, her m/s is slowed down. it is like old clown pink bottle problem where holding your m2 would make you lose distance. it is bad because say a survivor pre-drop a pallet, you can't use your chains around a circular loop because as you channel gateway, the survivor gaining distance for just running forward in the loop compared to you.
the Iridescent Lament Configuration, After making impaling wire basekit, this would become the new "always run this" addon.
It is already must use add-on. his chain hunt is terrible without it.
I already wrote a post in feedback section for what I think would be good changes for pinhead. the summary of changes was to weaken chain-hunt and improve consistency of his regular chain power.
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@ExcelSword said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793073#Comment_3793073
I mostly agree with you on the sentiment that he has overall weaker powers than killers with one focused power. But lets make sure we are being fair.
Hellfire does have a couple advantages over POTG, even though I do agreee that POTG is a better power overall. Mainly that you are able to strafe A and D with it rather than being limited to Tank Controls. There is also no limit to how long you can hold the power, unlike POTG where you can run out of trails. These might seem minor but being able to make quick turns with Hellfire has some good uses that some survivors won't expect.
Wolf form is more comparable to Demo's Shred than Wesker's Bound, and I would maybe argue it is better than Demo Shred. The fact you can charge and pounce very quickly is not to be underestimated. If you start charging it as you round a corner there is very little time for a survivor to react to it. The fact that it has two charges means it is reasonable to use it to close the distance on survivors holding W from you, even if they dodge you are much closer than you were previously. The haste bonus and third person perspective allows you to make some interesting mindgames that Chucky can't because he is 4.4ms. being able to see around corners AND being able to ready a pounce allows for some hits that no M1 killers can ever get.
Bat Form, I do agree it is just a worse power than Spirit Phasing. So much so that I don't even think survivors should be invisible to you in this Form. You only travel at 6m a second, that is fast but not amazingly fast. The best use of this Form is the map traversal by teleporting, but trying to use it in a chase is probably best avoided outside of niche perk/addon builds. With how unreliable footsteps and sounds are you might end up wasting more time chasing survivors in this Form.if you compare wolf to demo shred, demo shred is still better because you only need charge shred for demo for 0.45 seconds while wolf has to do full 1 second. Demo shred also recovers from pallet breaks much faster. at loops, it is worse to charge longer because it makes easier line of sight the attack which is why sliding tech was used to get angles to use said ability.
between loops as catch-up tool, it is also worse then wesker's 2 bounds because wesker can bound, then wait, see what movement for survivor is and then bound again. wolf has static pounce→pounce making attack more predictable. both attack have less distance, 5+5 meters vs 5 meter dash 1 and 8-9 meter for dash 2 on wesker. the hitbox of wesker is also like 2x bigger so it is way easier land his ability where as wolf is very hard land..
regardless if you treat it as shred at loops or as catch-up wesker bound between loops, it performs worse at both those functionality. the catch-up for wolf is so lackluster that i found it to be very ineffective so much so that i just stay in bat form and follow survivor with increase m/s but this has other several negatives of being worse spirit minus the bat instant hit exploit that should be patched out.
So much so that I don't even think survivors should be invisible to you in this Form.
The invisible for survivors is good drawback because in theory, you should be able combine his wolf form and his bat form. it is that there so many other negatives that make this so challenging like….. super loud bat noises and cooldown's that make the form very cumbersome to use. Just imagine spirit having extremely loud whoosy sound in her ears… like she doesn't have that, why does he have that? you know? the dev really don't want bat form or wolf form to be useful assets to the killer with how they balanced these two forms.
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it makes your cooldown for transferring one form to next form shorter by 10%. not to be confused with other cooldown add-on which makes m/s reduction last 10% less long.
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So when killer uses tech that improve killer power → It needs to patched out/deleted.
When survivor uses a tech to make killer power ineffective → we turn into a feature.
No bias at all.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793335#Comment_3793335
What kind of a take is that? That's like saying everyone can use a killer's power, so there's no skill to playing any killer.
exactly.
@Triplehoo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793069#Comment_3793069
It's not skill… It's a bug. If everyone is able to do it, is it really a skillful play? No
the mechanic is a tool for killer to use to get hits. it means that wolf now needs even more buffs.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793184#Comment_3793184
Oh yea thats another thing that plagues Knight since day 1. You want to break this pallet/gen/wall? Let me step back like 2 meters before you can do that sir.
i just want all my guard cooldowns to be halved. why can't i just use what guard i want at any point in time? I should only receive cooldown for using my ability when I miss the ability.
i suggested they make it so that whenever a guard successfully begins a chase or finishes an order action, you refresh 60% of the cooldown of that guard. I don't know why i need 20 second cooldown for breaking pallets. Billy and Cannibal have 0 cooldowns for breaking pallets….. and than i also don't know why assassin has 30 second cooldown.
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you would be able to use scamper in slice & dice if that true. I don't believe it.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Why Fire pits have such a long window to damage you?? Like this happend like 20 times allready VS him, I dodge his flames yet since his attack is delayed quite a lot and it takes a while before it's fully cast, I get hit anyway 1 second later after he missed because I run into it but I can't just dodge it and run that direction offten because I would be running closer to Dracula so I need to turn back but I can't I either have to sit like a duck 1 second or just die I quess anyway.
It's worse than when Pyramid Head casts his attack, this one is slower and it's so annoying and it ######### with my muscle memory of killer powers and I hate the feeling when you dodge attack but then you get hit second later anyway because it takes forever before the flames finaly are gone.
it is a fire fissure. lava coming up from the ground. It is meant to simulate the castlevania metriods games which often have lingering attack area of effect abilities that stay on the screen.
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@BrightestMage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792487#Comment_3792487
Thanks! I'm glad you like it! I hope Behavior sees this and does too!
that is too hard to code. it is easier for bvhr to set a value for exhaust while you heal that persists like Mindbreaker. For example, the mechanic could be 15 second of exhaust that persists during healing.
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bigger hatcher hitbox + injures in 1 hit. those two upsides are much superior than other two killer's throwing modes.
deathslinger has injure in 1 hit and faster wind-up but has downside of smaller hitbox.
trickster has downside of 8 hits.
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@Akumakaji said:
The most obnoxious aspect about Dracula is how depressingly weak he is…
they successfully designed a killer where killer player complains about killer being too weak and survivor complains about playing vs him. 10/10. Bvhr.
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got patch that skill out of the killer. Can't have killer having skill expression the ability.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792950#Comment_3792950
you're explaining it wrong because that's not how it works. it doesnt matter how much time elapses for the teleport position to be determinated, all that matters is survivor movement
I don't really play much vs hux as survivor but every time i do, i escape. when a killer is mediocre, you barely need understand the intricacy of the killer.
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@ppmd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793013#Comment_3793013
And when they buff killers they often overdo it or make them uninteresting to vs. Overtuning in the case of billy or twins, unfun in the case of nemesis.
I agree that many of the maps changed were too strong for survivor. However, they have gone too far in the other direction now. You cannot tell me modern Rancid or Haddonfield for example are in a healthy state for the game.
Some of these examples are pretty funny though. Saying borgo which has fairly weak pallets and often JGs with no window as a map with "lots of safe loops" is an interesting take.
Fixing shelter woods while nerfing lots of other maps is hardly a balanced take in this discussion. It is undeniable they are making maps far better for killers, and in this way compared to og maps this is of course very good. Many of the og maps had infinites. Today there are no infinites or pallet lodge or whatever else. Let's talk about today. Today there aren't that many maps which are busted for survivor, and maps often needlessly being buffed for killer, or reworks which go too far in favor of killer. That is what I am referring to.
I would be okay with them taking away all of the extra busted survivor maps if there were no S or A+ tier killers, but if those maps go there will be far less protection against S tiers with no restrictions. So of course I wish for the maps to not be unbalanced towards survivor, but I also wish for there to not be BS on the killers' end either.the maps are worse than what they were before but what they were before were so poorly balanced for all A- & lower killers. I am not sure how to describe it because a good 70% of the killer just did not work on these old maps iteration. their ability was far too weak for the map they were playing on.
when they buff killers they often overdo it or make them uninteresting to vs. Overtuning in the case of billy or twins, unfun in the case of nemesis.
I do not agree. most killer that they buff don't really move needle. The ones that they buff that move needle end up being good because their original kit is good but had poor numbers. Billy is great example of that. He is good killer but his number were poor tuned. They buffed up his numbers and that made him a better killer. Dredge is same. good killer, bad numbers. they buffed his number and now he is much stronger. Huntress also falls in the same boat as billy and dredge. Clown, Trickster, chucky were some of the killer that received positive changes in my opinion but they also received some associated negative changes which can be argue to make them overall worse.
The rest killer just don't make difference. doctor, ghostface, nemesis, knight, singularity, twins, pig, demogorgon and legion. these killer were mediocre before and they're mediocre after. they didn't suddenly jump up to S-tier or A-tier, they're still just ineffective as before.