Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@ays12151 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796304#Comment_3796304
The first part what you wrote doesn't make sense. If they would add new acceleration code - the skill ceiling on this part doesn't change. Bubba will need to know what distance he can make with new acceleration. The same was with new collisions. Many people were saying that Bubba will be easy to use and may be out of control on some loops. But guess what happened? Nothing special. He just doesn't bump on weird collisions and strong Bubbas need to correct their current knowledge and start learning to use new collisions on their advantage.
If for example his Chainsaw Tokens would click themself automatically - that would be bad for example. But not the things we mentioned.
About a second part of you message - I don't like the idea… All I want to make Bubba strong in chase and remove bringing The Beast's Marks everytime and give him some nice new Add-Ons. I don't want to make him A or S tier Killer, becaue it's impossible, but make him stronger in chase and make him more fun to play as.
i feel like most leatherface player will take lazy route and just do short chainsaws like old leatherface before he got reworked. that is why i said that reducing acceleration will make him less skillful to use.
About a second part of you message - I don't like the idea… All I want to make Bubba strong in chase and remove bringing The Beast's Marks everytime and give him some nice new Add-Ons.
What i am saying is that leatherface chainsaw chase is already very strong. Despite that, no one publicly thinks that Leatherface is a strong killer because average perception believes that only strong killers are killer with extreme map mobility which leatherface does not have.
The same was with new collisions. Many people were saying that Bubba will be easy to use and may be out of control on some loops. But guess what happened? Nothing special.
they did this change to attempt to fix infinities vs leatherface chainsaw on maps like Eyrie crow with those branches/twigs but i think issue is the map geometry itself and not the chainsaw hitbox.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796804#Comment_3796804
Disproportionate changes are good because ranged killers extra deserve to not be able to even fathom tunneling especially since its even stronger on maps that have poor los so they can double not play the game twice as fast.
99% of killer are going have trouble chasing a survivor with 10% haste. like i said, the bonus is not there for you to ignore it and tunnel anyway. your meant to respect it and go for other players. this is large reason why normal mode anti-tunnel/anti-proxy camp don't work as well. you can actively ignore it and just do action anyway which is why these strategy are so effective. Now you'll see when said mechanics actively work properly.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796763#Comment_3796763
Its silly because its short sighted changes, of course they would be easy to implement you could probably do it by changing 3 numbers. But on their own its a massive buff
Otz agrees to it because otz is near the top of his game of course he doesn't need camping and tunneling to win 98% of his matches against regular players, he even argued that it would be DISABLED in comp matches to let those play out like normal meaning that you also give it to survivors who really don't need it and can and will take advantage of it to win more often. Changes like these should only apply to a casual mode of the game with lessened stakes or with massive changes to the game as a whole not by itself to the regular gamemode and certainly not without hefty counterbalance
A haste of 10% affects a lot of killers differently, 10s of it is fine because it doesn't really last long enough to matter way too much in how disportunately it affects killers but if it lasts 60s it would need to be something dynamic to make up for the fact you can loop a ranged killer faster than they can loop due to hitbox size
Or you could just not tunnel with said ranged killer. the anti-tunnel changes are not there for you to ignore them and just tunnel anyway like they are in base mode. they're meant for you to respect them and actively go for other players…………
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796465#Comment_3796465
It will increase slugging. It is not, in fact, the answer.
My question is what on earth has led you to say this is 100% coming to the main game? We have no evidence of that.
nothing is guaranteed. I am just saying that something that is successful is more likely to re-appear.
@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796315#Comment_3796315
1 minute of 10% speed and endurance and 32m anticamp range would be extremely silly in the main mode. Its suposed to be a gritty survivor game with party game aspects not a party game with survivor aspects. At that point why even keep trying to remove tunneling or camping without removing tunneling or camping and giving compensatory buffs. Just remove hook timers and give survivors a shared hook pool for 4 and personal hook pool of 2. No one dies before 6 hooks and everyone gets at least 2 hooks minimum unless everyone gets hooked.
Being able to be "safe" in a game where someone is trying to kill you would just be comedic and the metas following changes like this would not be fun. Trying to remove "tunneling" and "camping" without technically removing them just so you don't have to make up for it by buffing killers is just never gonna work without killing the game or making dbd not a tom and jerry simulator (you can catch the mouse but you can't ever win) Can't wait for the unhook and hide meta because you can no longer put the person you just unhooked in a bad spot anymore and have to be across the entire map or not on a small map with massive self unhook ranges.
If you want to enjoy a 6 month lifespan before all but top killers quit be my guest but changes like this would put the game on indefinite dlc life support.
what about it is silly? Otz for example made a video a few days ago talking about hard-tunneling off hook is too effective. 60 second of 10% haste and endurence isn't too far fetched in a world where experienced player like otz agree that something needs to change. Proxy camping is something that is less talked about as problematic however most of the time, tunneling and proxy camping are often lumped into one so it makes sense for them to address the problem together.
Being able to be "safe" in a game where someone is trying to kill you would just be comedic and the metas following changes like this would not be fun.
Your safe till you touch a gen. if you touch a gen, the bonuses go away. in practice, you can still be downed but at the same time, people complained about chasing 3% MFT, so if you complain about a small % like MFT, then you definitely are going complain a lot more about chasing 10% haste. Your not really untouchable but in practice, if you play well, it is unlikely the killer will think favourable about chasing you. The killer can still apply pressure to other survivors.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796615#Comment_3796615
Look at doctor for example. He got now a shorter static blast cooldown and now his addons, that reduce the cooldown even further, do like almost nothing even tho it is combined more than before. For Sadako they nerfed reikos watch (sorry took the wrong addon at first
ring drawing)while making it party basekit, which was more of a fun addon than strong, but there was no reason not to give players a chance to go over the 1.5s invisibility and I haven‘t seen anyone run it ever since they nerfed it from 50%. Your so called variety actually decreases, when they make them partly basekit a lot of times (not always), afterwards those addons are not worth running at all (a lot of times). If they nerf the addons in away that they are not basically doing nothing, then it‘s fine, but that‘s often not the case.i think it depends add-on. order add-on for doctor was trash-tier before. so them nerfing under-performing add-on is kinda pointless. a good example strong set of add-on was demogorgon's barbed glasses and black heart. these add-on were among his best add-on and them buffing base-kit still makes these add-on's worth using.
So judging from these two scenario's, add-on need already be good for them to be wanted. In Sadako's case, her invisibility was always bad and add-on didn't move needle for making it better. the entire invisibility mechanic flicker at loops needs overhaul for her. I already gave my idea for how they could make it relevant. simply take flicker invisibility on current m2 and put that as passive and take current invisible values and put that as M2. I don't think they're going change Sadako any time soon so it is pointless to talk about it unless she shows up on road map, than we'll start talking.
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@HolyDarky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796538#Comment_3796538
I think i find hellfire a lot better in T-L's which is my problem with wolf. wolf should have some gameplay applications.
No I don't mean T-L walls I mean the hole and the pallet above the TL tile on The Game. You can dash above the hole, then reposition, and then get a hit on the survivor with the second Pounce.
I think double pounce is unique aspect of the ability. One thing they could do is make missing less punishing, for example increase movement speed in wolf form when you miss and reduce cooldown time so you have like unrelenting. Unrelenting wolf, sounds very fitting.
No, the killer should not be rewarded or get handholding for missing that would be not fair. The pounce is still unique but the player should have more control about the second Pounce.
oh that loop. i typically bat form that loop, i mean i guess you can use it but i think you shoot his hellfire at certain angles. Where i was mostly using his wolf was where hellfire was poor option which was at long-wall window loops like jungle gym, certain instances in shack if survivor was looping that super long wall opposite to shack window. high-wall rock loops. a lot of these loops is where slide tech was really useful so the fact that they deleted the main use case for this form without doing anything to improve the form as whole is a bit sad.
No, the killer should not be rewarded or get handholding for missing that would be not fair. The pounce is still unique but the player should have more control about the second Pounce.
i am just saying there are many avenues in which they could make wolf form better. that is just one of them. removing the forced double pounce would take away its uniqueness. Like i said with most drawbacks, if a killer has drawback, there should be some greater positive for said drawback. the reason why i thought it would be cool idea is it would make dracula have to calculate the distance that he pounces on 2nd jump such that he just misses to be close enough to m1 but doesn't over-pounce too far away.
it was something like this. with right image, you pounce just enough to get close for follow m1 but in the left image, the survivor dodges to the side and makes you over-pounce allowing survivor to go near the loop.
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hide & seek is for distortion gamer which bvhr is deeming stealth too powerful so they're nerfing it, apparently. i don't see stealth as prominent play-style but whatever. i think stealth is good if your on death hook and you want other people to take aggro which distortion does great job vs specific popular aura perks but that is about it.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Nope, Dracula is very popular and chapter skins as well.
i suspect he will be 2% -1.5% killer. maybe i am wrong but that is my guess.
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@AhoyWolf said:
8.2.2 gave Dracula some deserved buffs, but due to them it made the Wolf form obsolete, I'm not talking about the hug tech being gone, I'm talking about how you can just play him like The Spirit now.
Only use dracula to damage and bat to catch up / roam around the map, the wolf form currently is only maybe decent at tall wall loops, otherwise you will never use it.
It is kinda sad, but the mediocre punces just cannot compete with going at 6.5m/s (even tho blind) and switching into Dracula and firing his Hellfire right after damaging someone.
wolf form was obsolete before and wasn't in good spot even with slide tech. so in some sense, nothing changed. wolf form needed buffs but it got none in this update.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796507#Comment_3796507
Pop's pretty decent on any killer with mobile abilities. Sadako, Dredge, Unknown, Dracula, even got good value from Spirit when I tried it on her.
I am personally glad that spreading hooks is something stronger perks incentivize, but I do agree something in the base game needs to be added to further incentivize it away from tunneling.i only use it on xeno and blight. you could use it on dredge, wraith, Sadako, Freddy, billy. It is just that i find more value from using Agitation+Gift of pain for mangled on wraith and Dredge then kicking gens. Sadako and Freddy, I don't play anymore. uninteresting killers at the moment for me. Billy, I like playing chase-heavy builds on him.
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@HolyDarky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796467#Comment_3796467
The Wolf Form is now only useable on very specific spots like on the hold to the TL tile on The Game where you can dash against the shelves and then reposition to hit the survivor. Also helpful to track survivors and other very small things. But it is really underwhelming. I agree with your suggestion but one thing:
→Increase haste duration by 2 seconds.
The basetime is already 2.5 seconds according to the dbd wiki. Or do I missunderstand your suggestion?
I am also thinking if it's better when the speed boosts from Scent Orbs stacks instead of resetting the bonus but I am bad at math :x
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796479#Comment_3796479
The Wolf Form is really underwhelming and really special like I said before. Having no control about the second Pounce Attack is really annoying and I hope the developers will give us the option to have more control over it or even to cancel the second one - Players don't like not having control over something. I really like the design, sounds, and idea of this form but there are little reasons to use it which is sad. There is no real balance between there three forms Vampire good antiloop and zoning, Bat good mobility and catch-up tool but Wolf maybe useful on this one tile on this specific map when you play on Sunday at 7 p.m. It would maybe be cool when walking survivors also leave Scent Orbs but every 12seconds to buff his tracking power.
Year, it feels awkward that releasing Hellfire is different than releasing other ranged attacks like Huntress or PH because you cannot do a flick but on the other hand, this is also confusing for survivors. The good part about it, however, is that it has a lingering unlike Pyramid Head's Punishment of the Damned which is also confusing for survivors. The free camera is also an advantage. It has its ups and downs but this also makes it more unique, you know? I'm still unsure how I feel about this which is why I didn't mentioned it.
in short, haste lasts 4.5 seconds instead of 2 seconds. that is my suggestion. its goal is to make him better at loops such as jungle gyms such that he force pallets or be in better position to pounce. there might be better alternative ways to improve him at high-wall loops like those rock loops but i am not sure.
The Wolf Form is now only useable on very specific spots like on the hold to the TL tile on The Game where you can dash against the shelves and then reposition to hit the survivor.
I think i find hellfire a lot better in T-L's which is my problem with wolf. wolf should have some gameplay applications.
Having no control about the second Pounce Attack is really annoying and I hope the developers will give us the option to have more control over it or even to cancel the second one
I think double pounce is unique aspect of the ability. One thing they could do is make missing less punishing, for example increase movement speed in wolf form when you miss and reduce cooldown time so you have like unrelenting. Unrelenting wolf, sounds very fitting.
my only good current application for wolf is using it at the end of the match for survivor to pet me.
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@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796496#Comment_3796496
I would not say "adapt" that lighly, as that can be said to literally anything and no one should be able to complain.
Hellfire is already unique by not going through high objects. You are saying that you like "unique" abilities but that "uniqueness" thing about Hellfire is actually nerfing the ability. You do not follow with the camera after the cast so its harder to hit. Also, if the survivor is just running in a straight line from you, there is a possiblity that Hellfire will miss even if the survivor is at range because it will outrun Hellfire.
That uniqueness about Hellfire is actually nerfing an already nerfed ability that does not go through high objects. Not saying Hellfire is bad, i think its pretty decent, but i dont get why the ability itself needs to be "double nerfed".
That uniqueness about Hellfire is actually nerfing an already nerfed ability that does not go through high objects. Not saying Hellfire is bad, i think its pretty decent, but i dont get why the ability itself needs to be "double nerfed".
that is why wolf form exists. it is suppose to help anti-loop high wall with its impressive movement speed and pounce attack. the only problem is that wolf form kinda sucks.
You do not follow with the camera after the cast so its harder to hit. Also, if the survivor is just running in a straight line from you, there is a possiblity that Hellfire will miss even if the survivor is at range because it will outrun Hellfire.
You could buff hellfire by increasing its pillar count but i get decent mileage out of hellfire. I am fairely use to how it function now.
if I am being honest, i did not expect dracula to receive any positive buffs. the changes make bat form feel a lot smoother but he is still needs a bit more upgrades to the wolf. those are some of my suggestion to make him better but i am sure there is other possible ideas such as increasing pounce distance or reducing charge time or increasing haste %. anything that makes wolf better at high-wall loops would be great.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796363#Comment_3796363
Pain res doesn't require you to kick the gen post hook. You can make that argument with Pop, but not pain res.
And this is a pretty good example of why hooks should have been the metric for how a match goes over kills. The idea that getting a bunch of hooks, regardless of not killing, meaning you lose makes no sense. So I do agree with that, somewhat.i don't use pop on any killer that isn't just super sonic speed like Blight or Xenomorph. time sink to kick gens is too high for most killers.
And this is a pretty good example of why hooks should have been the metric for how a match goes over kills. The idea that getting a bunch of hooks, regardless of not killing, meaning you lose makes no sense. So I do agree with that, somewhat.
It does make sense. as strange as it sounds, the current version of dbd uses tunnel as skill-metric to how well you play killer. There should be more rewards for spreading hooks but there isn't which is why we have so much tunneling and not enough chase-me survivor fun. BVHR is working on anti-tunnel and anti-proxy camp mechanics and hopefully working on some spread-hook incentives for killer which they have some… in the form of perks like pain res, grim embrace, gift of pain, hex:plaything etc. The unfortunate part is that i wish didn't to equip killer perks to gain said benefit.
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@albertoplus said:
I also think Wolf form need buffs, right now seems to be better at chasing by just getting into the orbs (they do not appear when survivors are not moving so the tracking part is "meh"), but his pounce attack feels that is still hard as hell to hit. Sometimes you dont even want to do the second pounce but still does.
About Dracula form…still bugs me that Hellfire casting position is completely different than the rest of ranged killers. It is casted instantly at the moment you release the button, while on the other killers its casted some frames after that, so you can still follow survivors with your camera on those frames and hit them. With Dracula that does not happen, and if you try to follow the survivor when you release your attack, you will miss.
I think it is like that because you have completely free camera movement while on other ranged killers it locks on you, thats why their attacks can follow them. I would argue that Dracula's Hellfire would feel much much better if the camera is locked like the other killers but you can still follow with your camera after the attack is released.
adapt. hellfire is not suppose to feel like other killers. it is own unique ability which i love unique abilities. My only problem now with dracula is wolf form feeling not good to use. if they fix that, he will be complete awesome.
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I agree. i think his dracula form and bat form is a good spot. his wolf form on other hand needs some love because weaken the tech makes wolf form unattractive. here are my ideas from my other post.
@Devil_hit11 said:
Please buff Wolf form to be a more useful asset to dracula's kit.
→Increase aura tracking distance for orbs(Base-kit Cerberus Talon, reduce radius to 25% for add-on)
→Increase orb spawn distance for tracking
→Increase haste duration by 2 seconds.
Side-note, please remove the negative movement speed penalty when transforming from bat →wolf or bat→vampire form, it makes killer feel clunky.
the dev buffed dracula in exact way that i play him which is staying bat form and switching vampire form at correct moment for hellfire. while this is good play-style, i think that switching to wolf form should still have some merits/uses cases. current wolf is form is too weak to have any good uses cases.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796046#Comment_3796046
They will never put a 16 m anticamp and 60 second basekit Borrowed Time into normal mode, stop. These changes are for Lights Out only, because Survivors need the buffs to make it fair. These would be overpowered in normal mode. They're perfectly fine for Lights Out, IMHO, and lowkey still easily can be gotten around and encourage more slugging… which is why I'm kinda skeptical they'll do much to help here. And they sure would not help in main game because again, MORE slugging. Yes you can bring perks to halt that, but do you really think Killers will care? They'll all run slug builds plus Shattered Hope and there goes the entire "force-slug me" plan a SWF might have, period.
They need to do SOMETHING about tunneling, yes. This isn't the answer. It would in fact be abuseable, we saw what happened in the past.
This isn't the answer. It would in fact be abuseable, we saw what happened in the past.
Yes it is the answer if it stops tunneling which it will. there is nothing abusable since from perceptive of survivor, they're just fixing abusable mechanic for killer. the answer to avoid said mechanic is also simple, don't tunnel and don't proxy camp hooks.
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no it does not. you can see with licker togue that when you infect them, they're like slow-walking after speed boost for little bit but normal hit is regular. i like nemesis now, the aspect that i didn't like playing with him is a lot better. 3 hits and zooming around one end of suffocating pit and back was annoying with exhaustion perks like Lithe.
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yeah but it is only blue hits. it should work on normal hits to justify nerf. that is just my opinion.
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not sure why add-on needed a nerf. it only works vs infections. but ok.
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@abyssplayz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796046#Comment_3796046
lmao ur wrong. pyramid head, now dracula, huntress, nemisis, plague in situations, the unknown and the night destroys otr. u can't see the big picture. if they increase the anti camp range on hook then how exactly do i patrol gens when the survivors jus hide in bushes and lockers. and this game is quite literally the definition of insanity.
the strong aspect of anti-tunnel is NOT the endurance aspect of unhooking. The endurance aspect only removes disadvantage between chasing an injured survivor and healthy survivor. People tunnel through off the record no problem. The part that is strong in anti-tunnel is 10% haste granted by borrow time. that is anti-tunnel of system. Currently, it is only at 10 seconds. Laughable base-kit anti-tunnel mechanic as this expires so quickly so every killer that hard-tunnels through the haste. When the mechanic get buffed to 60 seconds of 10% haste, then mechanic for anti-tunnel is no longer laughable. It is now highly detrimental to tunnel survivors off hook hence anti-tunnel.
many survivor still complain about tunneling in dbd saying that BVHR doesn't do anything to stop tunneling and proxy-camping. that is why your seeing these experimental changes. If these changes are successful discouraging killer from tunneling off hook and proxy camping near hooks than you'll see BVHR implement into the base game from its outstanding success.
I know it will be successful because there is no chance that i am tunneling off-hook vs 10% faster survivors and there is no chance that i am standing within 24 meters of the hook for survivors to jump off the hook. that is how i know that the mechanic is already successful without even playing it.
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@ays12151 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796172#Comment_3796172
At least they should create a new code or just change the value from 60% to 30%. At least. But it would be nice to just set constant value and Add-Ons wouldn't have impact on acceleration.
i doubt they're going change acceleration because a big part of leatherface's skill is predicting acceleration ahead of time and knowing where you'll be in the chainsaw 5 second later. removing will make leatherface too easy to use.
Leatherface will never perceived as good enough killer because of perception that you need *cross map mobility to be a good killer. So outside of reworking him to work more like Oni's demon fury in 3rd person, nothing else would give a perceptive elevation in power. Texas Massacre game model for his power works is what BVHR's power for leatherface would have to look like for player to consider Leatherface as good as Billy. Anything else and it is not enough. A change like this was entirely change how leatherface works. He would move slower then Oni, like 135% speed but he'd always have his power up making Oni feel like a inferior version to him. As a result, i don't know if a change like that is in BVHR card deck right now.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796118#Comment_3796118
The value would be the eventual bleedout, as opposed to facing constant bodyblocks against teams willing to abuse it.
Even if they have all of that, if hooking gets bad enough most killers will still risk a survivor or two not running those perks as opposed to every anti-tunnel perk on top of basekit additions. And if anti-slug becomes meta, it still becomes better to slug a few THEN hook in this scenario.
I already get matches where killers will mass-slug if a hook is sabotaged or someone bodyblocks as is.
what happen if you see entire team use these perks? you could try testing the waters like you do with decisive strike where you purpose risk decisive strikes. In the end, you'll just get punished. Maybe some killer will like try force it by running like knock out and shattered hope but i am not sure at the effectiveness.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796112#Comment_3796112
We already have survivors getting value from UB. The problem is killers will have to choose slugging more often than hooking if it gets to the point where hooking is a detriment.
And down the line, I guarantee it will spawn complaints about slugging to the point where UB becomes basekit in some form, and then once we have all that, SWF can abuse the mechanics far more efficiently than the regular folk.
Maybe it's me overthinking it, but I've also been playing this long enough to have experienced it first hand, back-to-back matches of survivors and killers abusing any introduced mechanic. I do hope I'm wrong, more ways for SoloQ to be viable is great, but not with the problems I think will happen.
if every survivor team is running Boon:Exponential, Unbreakable, Soulguard and Tenacity. you won't really get any value out of slugging. you just get survivor speed-crawling to boons and picking themselves up with self-endurance. So survivor can forced you to hook in which you face these other…. negatives of no proxy camping and no tunneling.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796105#Comment_3796105
Just because they already did it, does not mean it's a good idea to do it again.
You have to take into account both the upsides and downsides and weigh them against each other. If you make it where killers are punished for spreading hooks by allowing survivors to all ignore their objectives to prevent the killer from taking chase with others, we'll see more slugging to counter it. Then we see slugging nerfed with basekit UB and then things will get even worse.Maybe it will be fine for low MMR/casual matches, but once you hit a certain MMR all your killer games will be filled with survivors trying that. Even now with OTR/DS I get survivors willing to throw entire matches to try and get value.
you have to consider that if this was implemented in the base-kit mode and killer start slugging, than survivor will just start equiping every anti-slug perk possible because suddenly, those slugging perk now become consistent value perks instead of rare value perks.
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@Bookern said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796077#Comment_3796077
im sure it'll show up in some way maybe a nerfed version of it im also sure they will come up with a way to combat slugging like basekit unbreakable or after 30 seconds slugged you can pick yourself up force killers to confirm hooks within a certain time. Unbreakable speed is to fast but i think 30-45 seconds would be fair for both sides
You already have nerfed version of it. the complaint is that BVHR isn't doing enough to nerf tunneling and proxy-camping. Killer are still winning games from tunneling and proxy-camping. there is also sentiment that survivor shouldn't need equip decisive strike, off the record, reassurence and so on to combat tunnelling and proxy camping. that is why they're experimenting to give these bonuses base-kit. they're tightening the anti-camping mechanic up and they're buffing anti-tunnel.
they don't need to do anything for slugging because slugging loses to leaving survivor on the floor and doing gens. That is why decisive strike has no counter-play because if you leave survivors on the floor and try time out decisive strike, your applying no pressure to other 3 survivors. they're more likely to buff hooking so that you still want hook as killer such as having pain res base-kit and maybe base-kit surge where every gen begins regressing. something along those lines. that way, your discouraged from slugging and have to play into these anti-tunnel and anti-camp changes.
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He is A-tier killer with all right tools to win. he is not overpowered, just strong. I wish dracula received similar levels of buffs coming from PTB so he could be as fun as Vecna but i guess he wasn't as fortunate.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796064#Comment_3796064
Again, that's why I think it works for lights out. I don't disagree on that.
I'm talking about OP saying it should come to base game.
i think it will show up in base game. BVHR is testing different type of methods of anti-tunneling and anti-camping to find out which method is best form of nerfing proxy camping and tunneling. the 2vs8 was more artificial type change. make cage more hidden, make it harder to tunnel, and so on. this one is bvhr using more brute force measures. Your going to be punished for proxy camping and tunneling people off the hook.
In my opinion, your likely just going to see a lot of slugging because the killer is like actively being punished hooking and is getting like 0 benefits from hooking. As a result, you might just killer bleed out slug people because…. well killer has to find a way to win right? The killer ain't dumb. I suppose we'll just have to see how it plays out.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796054#Comment_3796054
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796056#Comment_3796056
I think the bigger issue is all it accomplishes is making lower tier killers worse.
Remember, endurance off hook doesn't really help against killers with mobility as is.And to reiterate, I'm talking about if this comes to base game. I do think it can work with Lights Out.
yes it does. it puts their power on cooldown and 10% haste is severe penalty for all killers nearly. maybe nurse gets a little less effected by change but you have to remember light out also dim vision which is very important for nurse's blinks, so juking is much easier. so even tunneling as nurse might be a poor idea.
If you think it about closely, it is possible the most survivor sided event possible. you will never have harder time playing killer than this event. 0 game-delay perks, top-tier killer don't work, anti-proxy camping and anti-tunneling mechanics forcing you to go for chases and requiring you to win with skill. The only thing they're missing in this event is base-kit unbreakable so they can also delete slugging as strategy. Your better be putting on your A-game as killer. You'll need it.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796046#Comment_3796046
That's not the problem though. As I said in my other posts, it's weaponizing them that's the issue, IF it comes to main game.
For Lights Out, it makes sense due to how Lights Out functions.
i don't really mind if they're weaponized. just give me 8 stack of stbfl and rapid brutality. I'll hit borrow time and just gain speed.
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@ChaosWam said:
In normal, it would be too much.
In lights out, it can work a bit better since killer is undetectable. The reason it should NEVER come to normal DBD is due to surviviors weaponizing the free 60 seconds to bodyblock killers trying to spread hooks.you realize these changes will be put into normal mode eventually? remember 60 second of endurance also comes with 10% haste for 60 seconds, so if you try tunnel people, you're going be in a world pain. BVHR is really putting the gas on peddle. Anti-camp and Anti-tunnel features.
There is certainly going to be A LOT less tunneling and camping in this mode. that is for sure.
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@ShadyC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796026#Comment_3796026
Other than god pallets, that's still largely a trap. You still have to VAULT that pallet, and he gets 3 or 4 daggers on you now, just from one vault.
It aint good.
if he has enough time to throw 3-4 knifes, why is this any different from huntress releasing a hatchet and injuring in 1? Why is she is not being complained about in this post? secondly, you don't need vault the pallet. you can run forward and continue side-stepping a few knives. there is no real definite play. it depends on the loop.
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@ShadyC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795615#Comment_3795615
Pallets? Why?
He gets 6 daggers during pallet animation. He has no reason to respect. Best you can do is fake it and hope he stops, and gain like 3 inches on him. In that situation, he still gets 6 daggers on you, lol.
drop pallets when he is not in your field of vision. trickster's been the same for awhile now.
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@Bookern said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796006#Comment_3796006
Thats my concern on small maps survivors will always be able to jump of hook wont they?
depends, they only allowed certain maps in light out. borgo was one of them. forgot what rest of them were. they're obviously using extra modes to experiment on balance changes like anti-proxy camping. in 2vs8, they tested balance changes on removing hooks and cage teleporting to reduce tunneling.
since their 2vs8 was successful at reducing tunneling and this will likely be successful for weakening proxy camping, you can imagine these two changes showing up in the base mode.
I have no clue what they'll give killer to off-set anti-tunnel and anti-proxy camping changes but i imagine it is something good. Otz recently made a video regarding tunneling where he suggest burden mechanic but i think BVHR kick cage solution is far superior.
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oh boy, there is going to be a lot of survivor jumping off hook.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
I think it might be intentional to prevent just always getting a guaranteed best toolbox, which is probably smart. Commodious is hands down the strongest toolbox in the game and in fact, maybe a bit overpowered sometimes. BHVR is probably trying to subtly limit free genrush.
These are similar to other subtle limitations that have been imposed on Killers and Killer perks before. BHVR will then deny these limitations exist. It happens when they feel one side is too strong. It was Killers before, now it's Survivors… who they have been trying to limit since 6.1 to balance the game. It just feels weird because for so long, Survivors have been stronger than this. They're fixing that, so people see it as unlucky or wrong. But nah, this is just how BHVR balances. Making things mediocre and putting limits on them.
the problem is that this perk by nature is not one of the perks that killer will complain about. What they should be doing is looking at placing limits on perks like Exhaustion such as Lithe, Sprint burst, Background player, Decisive strike, Adrenaline, Deja vu, Build to last & Streetwise.
Placing limits on under-used/not popular just makes that perk appear less and the problematic perks stand out more.
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@jesterkind said:
Pretty okay perks, overall, though I'd like to see at least two of them buffed.
Eyes of Belmont is the least in need of changes. I do personally wish it had just a few extra seconds on either number, but it's perfectly useful as it is- good effect on its own, and some strong synergies with other aura reading perks, quite nice.
Exultation is a neat gimmick perk that rewards more aggressive play, on top of being an item perk that's quite smartly designed to avoid buffing toolboxes specifically, which is nice. It has two problems, though. The first is that pallet stuns can be kind of hard to get on some killers, so I wish it worked on all stuns instead- that way you could pair it with, say, Head On, and have a better chance at activating it across the whole killer roster. The second is that it suffers from the "why wouldn't you just bring the item" problem that most chest-searching perks have too, and I honestly think the solution to that involves addressing chests before it involves Exultation.
Moment of Glory isn't quite as bad as people are making it out to be, its total time investment is honestly on par with most other healing tools. Medkits are 24 seconds, Inner Strength is 20 seconds, Strength in Shadows is 22-ish seconds, and Moment of Glory has a total of 20 seconds. The bigger problem with it is that your progress towards charging it resets on a down, that's something I'd really want to see changed- but once it is, the perk's a relatively versatile heal. You can use it in chase if you're confident, or you can just finish charging it and pump generators in peace while getting healed, on top of getting two items out of it. Perfectly good perk with one big glaring flaw.
i found a way to use moment of glory that is most people probably didn't think about it. it is really good for bodyblock hooks for Mettle of Man stacks. You put Appraisal+Moment of glory and then search chests to bodyblock at hooks. The 3 stacks of Appraisal are perfect in line with 3 stacks of Mettle of man.
Eye of belmont needs more duration. like +2 second of linger. can be good with skeleton keys and blood amber but otherwise not that great.
Exultation is a perk that i think your suppose to use med-kits and heal in chase. so if you pallet stun mid-chase, you restore charges and hopefully heal inside chase. the problem is that this only works on baby killers that mind-game themselves. Most of the time, you don't have enough time to heal mid-chase and getting stuns on a lot of killer is too difficult. I used Botany knowledge+Desperate measures+Resilience with this perk to heal in chase. that was best idea i could come up when using this perk.
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@UndeddJester said:
In regards to this suggestion, it is interesting, but there are a lot of big number buffs there I need to crunch to fully understand the picture… but the initial gut feeling is his acceleration looks pretty cracked in this configuration… I'd be a little worried about him becoming rather oppressive at most loops
yeah no kidding. If they want buff bubba, i suggest buffing forced hensitation perk. the current radius is only 16 meters. Perhaps increasing it to 24 meters would be good. I have been using it on bubba and finding a lot of success with it but the perk is often out of range. Works pretty well with Beast marks and Iri flesh.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795806#Comment_3795806
A 2 second stun would make zero distance. I'm pretty sure you'd actually still be in lunge distance by the time the killer recovers LMAO.
It would become completely useless for any means. Genuinely.
you could die under a pallet and then pallet stun the killer. still a second chance.
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also I never expected BHVR to change something for me, please don't play that petty card. It completely down plays and ignores how others are not enjoying Nightfall either (without ADHD).
Their reason for not enjoying nightfall is not same reason why you don't enjoy nightfall. their reason might be that they don't like losing to dredge.
It's just not fun. Is it manageable and can survivors hide or avoid getting hooked/hit, yeah like you guys say you can manage just 'fine'.
Most player that have talked about nightfall have often praised BVHR for a killer like dredge because dredge is great example of bringing horror back to dbd. The boogey man, the low visibility, the unpredictable are all iconic horror tropes. So in contrast, Nightfall is greatly liked more so then hated.
that doesn't mean it's fun to play against or an engaging mechanic that adds depth to the game.
Disagree. it adds depth to the game in the form of ignoring visibility cues and working off map memory where you sort of need to know what the map looks like internally to navigate in nightfall. For new players, it is very newbie stompy mechanic because they already don't understand the map layout with full visibility so no visibility might as well just be playing the game in ultra-hard mode but for veterans, it is interesting twist to the game. The very popular perk Window of Opportunity sort of takes away immersion factor of nightfall and cheats it but oh well.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795744#Comment_3795744
True, but I call it high latency at 40ms atm like I dont understand some of the hits maybe if I record it to show it, I'm not really being the most clear.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795758#Comment_3795758
With how quick he does chases on the smaller maps, it's a big issue, I'm mainly on about haste clown, haste perks on him are incredibly annoying.
I feel killers should be getting QoL 4v1 changes like portals etc to help them get about when they dont have mobility that other killers have. Buffing the 1v1 makes someone who plays solo queue miserable: Legions addon reworks is one of those, where it debuffs those who mend alone, instead of the 2nd hit onwards… it ended up nerfing legion vs SWFshaste clown is fun to play but he is not really good. admittedly, he is one of the best tunnelers in the game and with correct gen defence perks, He can tunnel fairely well. Haste clown loses to gen-rushing and poor map presence.
Nemesis hindered is currently bugged. he can still be shift-w with his 3 health-states but he is not necessary stronger. He feels better to play because his kit feels more snappy/fast paced.
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i think few reasons to why they changed it.
- Nurse. Nurse has add-on called fragile wheeze that made you get mangled for entire game. Spirit also used sloppy as being injured vs spirit was huge boon to her. Weakening mangled → Nerfed high-tier killers
- Slugging. Killer like Singularity would use sloppy butcher to slug. Putting fixed timer make sloppy butcher useless for slugging as timer will deplete before mangled has any relevancy. → They also nerfed singularity after by reducing overclock duration and his speed.
- Many survivor complaint that med-kit were not as good for healing because mangled would increase self-healing time to 30 seconds. As a result, they nerfed sloppy butcher so that mangled could be bypass by med-kits by waiting out the timer.
@VomitMommy said:
Interesting, I lost interest in sloppy butcher completely. It's not really better than some add-ons we can use for exactly same effect.
Sloppy is 90 seconds, where survivor can wait on hook up to 70 seconds. So if survivors want they don't really need to wait that long...
It can have meaning in two scenarios:
- You regularly drop the chase, which is viable to few killers (Wraith)
- You always return to hook and hope survivors heal there and won't manage in time
Issue is Wraith has addon (and several other killers) to get basically Sloppy butcher for 70 seconds (on surprise attacks). I don't see value of perk, which I can get from addon.
I am going to choose almost any other slowdown over sloppy.
I literally don't use sloppy anymore. I use Scourge hook: Gift of pain+Agitation now. It sucks that you have spend 2 PERK slots for mangled but the fact that mangled times out on the hook makes all mangled useless except for gift of pain because gift of pain works when you unhook someone and if they do complete heal, you still get mangled effect indirectly because of action speed debuff.
@SoGo said:
I don't think it was Mangled that needed a change, but Haemorhage.
My suggestion: Make Mangled last until healed and put Haemorhage on a timer instead.
the only point of hemorrhage is to mess up med-kit charges. it is not very good because in many cases, if survivor completes the heal, they void the entire effect anyway. The initial patch notes was to changed mangled. specifically mangled. Hemorrhage got put on a timer because it was in the cross-fire of mangled.
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@[Deleted User] said:
It's boring for everyone. I guarantee the survivors don't want to be in that game anymore either. But there's zero reason for them to try and progress the objectives in a 2v1 or even a 3v1 in many cases. The only path survivors have to a personal victory or draw is to wait until someone else dies. Like...I get that not participating is against the rules. So is intentionally losing, which is what a survivor is doing if they try to work a gen in a 2v1. This is not a player issue. It's a design issue.
for once, I agree with the design issue. i imagine the reason why they have not changed anything about this is due to the free 4k argument that @ReverseVelocity talks about but they also don't want to reward survivor for losing where killer get punished for playing well aka old hatch mechanic. So they just left the end game where neither side has fun. the survivor is supposedly going get reported which makes no sense since they're not breaking any rules and Killer is somehow suppose to search survivors for up to 60 minutes until server closes down if the survivor are persist enough to hide for that long. poor design that has been ignored for too long.
Telling killer to bring "Whispers" as a perk just for this end game is like telling survivors to bring anti-3 gen perks vs old skull merchant just in case you get into stalemate for 60 minutes of gen-kicking. not a good solution.
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@ShadyC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795599#Comment_3795599
Holy #########, dude. What even is the point now?
have you tried playing around pallets? You can't just focus on dodging.
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@SipSipSip said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795587#Comment_3795587
That'll absolutely kill shack if basement spawns there.
no it wouldn't. the pallet is still god pallet. you can still go around long side where your able to see through killer wall. It would just disincentive using window which you can still use but risk is greater. it is about time that a terrible killer becomes something usable.
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rework to what human greed does. grants unlimited wall-hack in 16 meter radius around the basement.
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@Emeal said:
And then some survivor unloads 5 Flashbangs on me in the last chase when Exit Gates are powered all due to 1 Perk.
I'd rather not mate.
imagine 4 man swf, spams 10 flashbang end game.
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@ArthurVeloso said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794636#Comment_3794636
The self-healing mechanic in Dead by Daylight has been a topic of debate, but it's time to seriously consider buffing it, especially for solo players who rely on it far more than in coordinated teams. Here's why:
First, the idea that buffing self-healing would make being injured "no big deal" overlooks the core dynamics of the game. Even with self-care, healing takes time—precious time that could be spent on objectives like working on generators or saving teammates. Survivors still need to find a safe place to heal, and they risk getting caught and downed if they misjudge the situation. Buffing self-healing wouldn’t suddenly make injuries irrelevant; it would just give survivors a more reasonable chance to recover without being overly dependent on their team. In solo queue, you often have to rely on yourself.
Additionally, relying on perks like Botany Knowledge, medkits, or Resurgence can be a gamble. Medkits can be lost to Franklin’s Demise, and you don’t always have the luxury of running multiple healing perks that take up crucial perk slots. Buffing self-healing slightly would give survivors more flexibility without overshadowing existing healing options. It’s about balance and player choice—giving survivors, especially those in solo queue, the tools they need to stay in the game longer without breaking the game’s core tension.
It’s also important to remember that the misuse of self-care (players hiding in corners or taking too long to heal) isn’t a flaw in the perk itself but rather in the playstyle. Any perk can be misused, and we don't generally punish perks for that. What we should focus on is how buffing self-healing can encourage survivors to stay engaged and make smarter decisions. A more reliable self-care option won’t lead to survivors hiding away—if anything, it’ll empower them to get back in the action faster.
Let’s be clear: Dead by Daylight is often balanced around high-level, coordinated play, but the majority of players aren’t in a well-oiled SWF team. For solo queue players, self-healing is a lifeline. Buffing it even a little would give them more agency in matches where they can’t always count on random teammates to heal them. It's about leveling the playing field and making the game more enjoyable for everyone—not just those who have a full squad of friends on comms.
In short, a buff to self-healing would provide a much-needed improvement to the solo survivor experience without tipping the scales too much in favor of survivors. It’s a reasonable, measured adjustment that would keep the game challenging while giving players more strategic options and reducing unnecessary frustration.
This change would address the potential abuse of self-care by maintaining the advantage of team healing but also making self-care a more practical choice for solo players. Ultimately, a slight buff in self-care and an enhancement to Circle of Healing would improve the game's balance and make the experience more enjoyable for players who find themselves frequently playing solo or facing unreliable teams.
on contrary, every time they have buffed healing, it has tipped balance favored towards survivor. Instead of survivor being careful and valuing each hit, they become super aggressive because injures means nothing and even often offensive use health-states for body-blocking and bully purposes. it is also way too strong for SWF.
average killer don't down healthy survivor quickly enough and these extra health-states definitely consume ton of chase time from the killer creating situations where survivor is both healthy and is doing gen's extremely fast. The nerf to sloppy butcher and STBFL really don't help either so it is hard no on buffing self-healing.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795323#Comment_3795323
Can someone explain the last stats to me. The seem useless to me.
On average, 0.83 hex totems are cleansed. This is supposed to tell me what now? What if the killer brings 4 hexes. What if they bring one? This includes matches where no hexes are played at all, if im not mistaken. What does this tell us???
i think hex cleansed stat is not relevant but bless totem stat is somewhat relevant because it showcases that boon are AS COMMON as no one cleansing totems. it means that survivor almost never interact with totems. I wonder what % of this was when Circle of healing was more common.
I suspect that chest interaction rate is also very low. i highly doubt anyone is running moment of glory, specialist or pharmacy.
as for killer stats, i suppose they're trying to say that Vecna is strong as his kill-rate is high? but he is not common because he is m1-focused? I am not sure. His spells stats are little weird, you'd expect dispelling sphere and Fly to be at the top because these spells are spammable and almost universally very useful while you'd expect mage hand and flight of the damn to be a little lower like 6-6 or 5-6 considering that you typically use mage hand for first hit or second hit and flight of the damn on first hit or second hit based off what situation is presented.
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@Rick1998 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795091#Comment_3795091
tey doing weskers hig tech anywhere near as conssitently as blights jugtech. Literally plays around fps and only can be used will in certain places . Comparing them both is ridiculous.
it is not. Both dracula wolf form and Blight's hug tech will be patched out. it is only fair that Wesker's also gets his fixed. All 3 of them were "cool" but BVHR has to be consistent with their changes.
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no it never lasted until you healed. first iteration of BT was 15 second, then this perk was nerfed to lower duration like 8 second then buffed to 10 seconds. If you don't like current borrow time duration, then try off the record, it lasts for 80 seconds.