Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2698864#Comment_2698864
Okay then.
When I say anti loop no mobility, I mean a killer who has the majority of their power be anti loop without mobility. I included Demo in the list due to the fact that about 2 people use his portals. If you wanted a different option, Pyramid Head clones.
Does this help? When I say anti loop no mobility, please keep all four of those words together. Don't split them into two seperate categories, because that is how you manage to completely misunderstand everything I'm saying.
I don't give a ######### if the killer has anti loop provided it isn't all their kit has. As I've said many times so far already. I've used Blight as an example of a killer I enioy facing the majority of the time. Spirit I honestly don't mind anymore. Nurse is amazing when I see her. I don't care if they have anti loop, so long as they have mobility too.
Though if it's exclusively hypermobile I wouldn't complain, but they wouldn't be top tier like that because BHVR have decided to bring back incredibly strong tiles and masusveky encourage hold w pre drop don't stop and suffer.
I think the major two aspects that i want in a killer power is ability to counter shift-W gameplay styles and the ability to hit survivors in at god pallets/safe loops in timely manner. The downfall of many killers is that most of the time, their anti-loop only covers one aspect of the chase and it takes too long.
Artist and Demo are great examples of this. They can shutdown tilesets, but they're so hopeless at shutting hold-w strategies that Demo games might as well be Demopallet eater games who is so slow at breaking pallets that survivors always get next tile thus losing until you break every pallet on the map.
That's why everyone loves blight. you can use hug techs to utilize his power at loops and get hits between tilesets given full interaction of the chase start to finish. If only other killers were as interactive to play as blight.
My aspirations is that if a killer has no mobility, they should at least acquire base-kit Instant down capacity. there hasn't been any base-kit instant down releases for very long time. maybe this killer could be one.
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undo barb glasses add-on change.
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@BaconyToast said:
The Artist literally invalidates EVERY OTHER AREA DENIAL KILLER while also being piss easy to play.
- Trapper: Methodically and purposefully put a trap down to counter a loop, requires finding traps
- Hag. Methodically and purposefully put a trap down to get a hit, too slow to get a hit without them
- Doctor: requires precise timing to deny pallet drops or vaults
- Freddy: His main power isn't the traps but still he requires time to put them down and they only slow you
- Clown: Area of effect slow but that's all his power is, a better Freddy trap with a reload
What does her power do?
- It denies loops with an EXTREMELY low cooldown, basically up every 1.5 seconds if you only use 1 Crow.
- It INJURES and DOWNS survivors THROUGH WALLS- you thought Nurse was bad but you can actually outplay a Nurse
- It is GLOBAL INFORMATION- You can check 3-4 gens at once with a ######### 12 second cooldown
The Artist: 4.6m/s
The Hag: 4.4m/s
The Trapper: 4.6m/s
Repel: Takes 8 seconds
Recharge from firing 1 Crow: 5 seconds.
This killer is LITERALLY a better Deathslinger while having virtually no downsides.
- Deathslinger has a below average 4.4m/s movement speed
- Artist has a standard 4.6m/s movement speed
- Deathslinger can't directly injure with his power and is invalidated by pallets
- Artist can ignore virtually everything, injuring through walls, pallets and pallets
- Deathslinger, due to his below average movement speed, can't pressure the map easily
- Artist can spam crows that have UNLIMITED RANGE, finding generators that are being worked on
- Deathslinger is countered by efficient looping and tall walls, due to his Line of Sight requirement and 4.4m/s movement speed
- Artist has no Line of Sight requirement, her power ignores walls while being 4.6m/s
I'd argue that Artist is even better than Nurse.
- Nurse suffers from the lack of mobility, it takes her a while to cross the map
- Artist doesn't even need to physically be there to pressure the map
- Nurse suffers if you miss a single hit
- Artist can just run at you like any other M1 killer because of her 4.6m/s movement speed
- Nurse is countered by indoor maps or lots of LOS breaks
- Artist is 4.6m/s, she can catch up like a Trapper would
"but.. but.. but.. but a god Nurse has no counterplay!!!"
You will never meet a god Nurse because they all left. Nurse is not fun to play anymore:
- Dual cooldowns on the same ability ( Fatigue + Recharge )
- Extremely high amount of game breaking bugs, all of which are old and have been reported numerous times
- Any bug that benefits her even slightly, no matter how hard to pull off, gets nerfed within a week: Check "fatigue tech"
- Being stunned on repeat for simply crossing the map
- A single miss causes an extra 20 seconds to any chase timer, essentially ending the chase there and then
The only reason you lose to your average Nurse is because you haven't learned how to counter her. THEORETICALLY she has no counterplay, but you aren't playing at the theoretical limits of the game.
You're Gold III playing against a Nurse with maybe 500-1000 hours in the game who has never had to play against hard players due to everyone giving up or just suiciding on hook.
I can say this from experience, your average Survivor has no ######### idea how to play against Nurse and if they have the slightest idea how to counter you, you will not catch them.
The Artist on the other hand? She's extremely easy to pick up and not punishing at all.
You countered the loop by placing the birds but they just ran away? Don't worry, just run at them because unlike Nurse you're ######### 4.6m/s movement speed.
Personally I believe they should
- Make her crows break upon contact with a wall
- Make her 4.4m/s
This nerfs her ungodly amount of map pressure and uncounterable area denial.
"But it's not uncounterable, you can just keep running!"
Exactly, you're forced to leave the loop. You will get hit because of this.
Your choices are:
- Get hit at the tile through her power hitting you no matter what you do
- Get hit while running from tile to tile due to 4.6m/s movement speed
God forbid you have one of those small tiles like the ones on Ormond. Place 2 crows on either side, guarantee a health state and a down.
Trapper, Deathslinger, Freddy & Clown are in unacceptable F-tier garbage states currently in the game, Comparing them is a complete joke to Aritst against strong survivor teams.
My second comment is that Artist's time to down is far slower than Nurse because it takes 2 hit per health state to use her ability and both hits must be consecutive. Not only that, The time for survivor repel crows is way too short currently compare her cooldown for using crows. The math is that repelling takes 8 seconds but cooldown using 1 crow = 5 seconds, 2 crow = 9 second, 3 crow = 12 seconds.
Basically as long as you repel right away, Artist can only use 1 crow. I don't even know why she has 3 crows because 3 crows are completely pointless in current balance chase-wise. Her ranged capacity and balance is quite lackluster in balance. She has 1 second cast time to activate ability, Survivors see Aura of her crows when placed and crows for some reason do not move at peak velocity when fired, they instead move half velocity and than accelerate to max velocity
All these hand-holding variables combine make her ranged gameplay lackluster and make her ranged attack very easy to dodge.
My final comment regarding thread is that her ability shutdown loops easily is strength with low skill-cap, however it is important to note that most that a vast majority of pallet oriented loops on most maps are not balanced whatsoever and verge of level of being able just spam press spacebar on pallets to the win. Her low skill-cap to counter conventional pallet loop is about as low as survivor skill-cap for using vast majority of safe loop design in the game. I don't see it as a problem until they fix safe loop design in the game(if this is ever changed).
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@Onyx_Blue said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2693317#Comment_2693317
Yeah, no doubt Legion needs a lot of tweaks to remedy some pretty daft power mechanics. But this seems more like an oversight than a design decision, since Oblivious was introduced long after Legion was already in the game. Weird that a non-lethal killer has so much going against them on top of that XD
I doubt it. I think its intentional so that Legion cannot use killer perk "Hysteria". I remember the days when Legion could use sloppy butcher and stbfl when his ability was a basic attack.
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@DorkianBae said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2692965#Comment_2692965
I like the idea of the perk, I like that I don't have to kick a gen and can just keep going but in it's current state it's just not very good and deserves love. Again mainly want a range buff so it can hit more than 1 gen more often and maybe 10% gen regression
It's literally just something to pick if you don't have something better.
Best killer build hands down is Deadlock, Corrupt and No Way Out with your 4th perk being whatever helps you the most. Honestly most other killer builds don't cut it in comparison, even ruin/undying looking like poop next to the current meta build.
I just also want weaker perks to get love, that goes for both sides. Sick of games just perma letting characters/perks be trash tier and never revisting them.
surge on release was 12%. the perk was nerfed to 8%. at this time, one of developer comments was that they do not like killers stacking 4 gen slowdown perks. As a result, perks like ruin, pop goes weasel, surge, undying(Perk to protect ruin), thanatophobia were nerfed/reworked to be more balanced. Sloppy butcher was recently indirectly nerfed by COH boon perk.
from lack of options and constant negative killer changes, killers are now forced to use corrupt+deadlock as all other options were erased into oblivion. Given past results, I fully expect that corrupt intervention+deadlock will likely receive negative changes such as "Corrupt now blocks 2 gens instead of 3" and "Deadlock now block a random/least progressed generator instead of most progressed generator". I expect something like this to occur within next 1-2 years from previous developer comment. enjoy your killer perks while they last. they don't last long.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2687450#Comment_2687450
How are you going to know how good she is if you don’t even try? That just makes no sense to me.
They don't need to try the killer to figure out that she is worse. The whole point of their negative changes is to delete killers that survivor did not enjoy playing against. Nothing about her gameplay changed, nor did her skill-cap change. if anything her skill-cap was lowered. She is now a killer that literally relies on Iri speed add-on and cherry blosom to emulate what Stridor used to do for her. All spirits that I've faced since her change have been using mother daughter ring and cherry blosom, I haven't faced a normal spirit since her changes.
I imagine like wraith, pinhead, demo and so on, those add-ons will probably be in their words overperforming, so I could imagine them getting changed with halve values and than some statement saying that these changes are to encourage add-on variety.
lower playrate is just result of negative changes as it is with every killer.
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@Altarf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2684371#Comment_2684371
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UW8OS88EUB8Z/image-283-29.png
Official stats released a few months ago. I know because I was the one who asked for them on the stream :)
He is hard to play. He demands highest skill-cap in first person shooter skills to be played Like all low kill-rate killers. He has one of highest skill-floors in the entire game.
The irony is that he gets no rewards for being difficult to play and ironically, His throwing knives ability has low skill-ceiling because you can counter his ability by just looping any high-wall, Just look at main event where your movement speed is locked to 96% and you cannot down a survivor looping a rock.
Basically he is hard to pick-up and play with no reward for mastery.
At least deathslinger and trickster can now be good friends at the bar as they now share same problem.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2681349#Comment_2681349
I would make coup de grace so that you get tokens when you hook people and when gens are complete and you press the Action button to consume a token to super lunge
Mine would just be like unrelenting:
"As you go in for the kill."
Increases basic lunge attack distance by 60%.
simple one sentence.
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@Kebek said:
It's a pity that such a fun perk has such a terrible trigger condition. It's like if dead hard could only activate each time after one of your teammates die.
Waste of potencially amazing perk.
I really wish they buff this perk for killer to be passive perk with no token count. it would be dream come true.
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it should work like the perk unrelenting. just flat increase.
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@zarr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676299#Comment_2676299
Hmm, at that point the discussion would shift from what are the most overtuned add-ons, to what are the most overtuned add-on combinations. I don't actually think Blighted Crow is the problematic part of the mix in any of those combinations; Rush speed is great, but if it were the case that speed is the problem we would probably see stacked speed add-ons more commonly here. I simply think that base Rush speed is too slow for comp DbD for anyone to go without at least one speed add-on. I think Blight with Crow and nothing else is fine, problematic combinations like Crow + 33, Ring or Rat would stop being problematic if 33 and Ring were adjusted (and Crow were to not stack with Rat). On the other hand I don't think 33 and Ring in their current form would be much less problematic in combination with a lowered speed boost on Crow. But perhaps adjusting Crow from +6 to +4 and Rat from +4 to +2 is sensible either way.
Likewise for Nurse, I think the recharge add-on only exacerbates the true issue that is range. In most other tournaments range is banned and people use double recharge and it's mostly fine. Well, of course, Nurse is not simply "fine", in most other tournaments she actually averages closer to 3k, with the best Nurse players consistently getting 3/4ks, so recharge add-ons could also need adjustments. But I think range is the blatantly overtuned one.
Oni was honestly a poor pick given that the map for the round was Abattoir. You don't wanna be having to get an early M1 on a coldwind map, and corn also doesn't help with getting lots of Fury downs. But 1k 6 stages is not nearly as awful as one would expect, given this and the level of play/loadouts. We could also go into talking about the actual game, and I think it'd be obvious that the Oni player was not as on top of things as the survivor players in that match, I remember a fair few questionable plays or downright mistakes. Double duration add-ons was also kind of not the play, I think you need at least one speed add-on (or Top Knot, which is still good IMO), or an add-on to increase the frequency of orb drops so as to get your first Fury as soon as possible. Either way, I'm not sure that I overestimate some of those killers. Corrupt, Deadlock, No Way Out give even the middle of the pack killers enough opportunities to secure stages and kills, add some of the strong add-ons into the mix and games should be able to end in 2 kills with non-negligible frequency even in this heavy format, with more kills not being impossible (but less than 2 kills most likely indeed more frequent than more than 2 kills).
Anyway, the most stacked survivor loadouts are absolutely ridiculous and not something that should be in the game, vanishingly rare as it is to be seen in pubs. I'm for perk and item/add-on limitations for SWF groups, not least because the many other tournaments I've watched and taken stats on go to show that there's actually a neat variety of viable killers once the surv teams can only use 1 copy of most things between them.
"Anyway, the most stacked survivor loadouts are absolutely ridiculous and not something that should be in the game, vanishingly rare as it is to be seen in pubs."
I agree. The main issue is that if you weaken BNP parts, stacked toolbox and med-kits which are last really impactful items for survivor, why would a survivor spend BP if all their items are not very good? Keys are not longer instant escape buttons, flashlights are easily countered by looking away at walls and maps primary only use for totem hunting which killers have given up on using totems because their totems are weak because the totem defense perk(Undying) is too weak and their totems have no game lifespan(easy to disable from sound cue)+ map knowledge.
In regards to killers, add-on often work in pairs, though I'd say that add-on often need to be individual good effect to be used in first place. I was not saying that these killer add-on need to be worse. I was just stating that these are the best add-on for said killer.
Oni is overrated killer, He is not viable at highest level of play. I have nothing more to say about him.
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@zarr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2675951#Comment_2675951
Yeah, I knew Compound 33 was overtuned, survivors make almost no distance after pallet breaks with that add-on, it's pretty nuts. It does seem like it's even more problematic than Ring, which I did not think prior to the tournament, but I still hold that the latter is also overtuned. I don't think Blighted Crow is overtuned, but I do think Blighted Crow + Blighted Rat is.
I also agree that 4 Commodious + BNP and brute-forcing your way through the game, injured if needed, is probably more effective than going for healing-focused builds. That said, it's kind of a "glass cannon" approach that is more vulnerable to snowball/3-gen scenarios and can be notably harder to recover with, and if you look at the per-round distributions you can see that a fair few teams actually went with a mix of BNPs and med-kits. But those are just casual observations - while I think that 30 matches are a good-enough sample size for some balance evaluations given that most of these are players that have been playing in tournaments for years and are very seasoned, I don't think it's enough to draw all too definite conclusions on the meta of the format. If more tournaments like this were to happen, I would expect it to still evolve in some ways.
I'm not saying "killer is balanced" period, such a statement can never really be made in this game anyway because there are too many variables, in and around the game. But it does show that the best killer characters in the game piloted by some of the best killer players can compete against some of the best survivor players using the best loadouts.
That a few killers like Legion and Ghostface, Demo and Wraith would stand almost no chance to win in this format is true, they would likely average somewhere around 1.5 kills, with 4-6 stages, i. e. actually having to tunnel one and camp another survivor endgame to try and consistently get to a 2k result. Various other killers like Pinhead, Pyramid Head, Doc would probably peak at 2ks indeed, with 3/4ks not being strictly impossible but rare exceptions. They would likely average around 2 kills, but with most of the matches actually being 1 or 2ks. Then there are a bunch of killers that I do expect could still perform well (meaning 3/4ks are not as much of a rarity), mostly due to some of their strong add-ons, such as Plague (Seal), Hag (Shackles), Clown (Pinky), Myers (Tombstone Piece), Huntress (Iri Head). Killers like Oni and Twins are also always dangerous even at this level.
But yeah, again, I'm not saying the game is perfectly balanced. Just significantly more balanced than many people take or make it out to be, and this is at the highest of levels, the average group of survivors you get in your killer matches even at high MMR is a world away from this, for pub play you can throw most of this balance talk out of the window anyway. I consistently 4k as perkless Legion, all of the killer players I watch win 80-90% of their pub matches, are rarely even truly challenged.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2675969#Comment_2675969
Well, stats of the past have shown that kill rates actually increased as ranks did every time, not the other way around, and while ranks didn't correlate very closely with skills and experience, they still correlated with those things somewhat, so at the very least we should have seen a slight decrease in kill rates, not a notable increase, if we are to assume survivors reach their skill ceiling earlier and are also favoured once a certain "skill threshold" is exceeded. We unfortunately don't have stats for different MMR brackets, but again, all the killers I watch are definitely high MMR, and they win much more often than not. I expect high MMR kill rates to be at least in the 60% realm that the global rates are too. Hope we will get more official stats on that at some point.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2675997#Comment_2675997
I don't think it's damningly big even just for raw kills. 1.29 means the deviation is still much closer to +/-1 kill/escape than to 2. I think if deviation were greater than 1.5 it would be fairly damning, but even then I would still account for stages, which are again completely reasonably distributed.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676003#Comment_2676003
Absolutely. "Balance" in public matchmaking is pretty much pure chaos. And this goes for both sides. There are way too many variables and RNG aspects at play, starting of course even with the casino of matchmaking itself, i. e. who you get matched up with and against, which even with MMR is still a fair bit of a mess. When people say DbD is "not balanced", they are mostly right, only they are wrong in usually assuming it just means the game is "X or Y sided" and this would affect every single game in a deterministic manner. But the reality is that in public matchmaking matches (99% of matches people are actually having in this game), much of everything can happen at much of every point. "Not balanced" simply means that whenever you go into a pub match, as whatever role, you should not have any exception of how the game will or can go. Which can be frustrating, but we can also hold that due to this fact, the game actually rewards players for skills a lot, since they are a consistent aspect in otherwise fluctuating match circumstances. That this is true is easy to see when we look at the fact that good players win most of the time in pubs, and in fact even more so on the killer side (for survivors you obviously need 4 skilled players coming together to set the same premise).
The conclusion from tournaments like this for more casual and pub play is not that the next time you get blown out by an SWF with 4 BNP you should think "if I didn't suck and were playing Nurse I could have still won so this is okay", but indeed that in your 99 other matches in which you did not get a 4-SWF stacking BNPs but still didn't win every single time don't think "this game is completely imbalanced and nothing I could ever do could have helped me do even just a little bit better in this match".
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676030#Comment_2676030
I mean, what made this tournament particularly noteworthy and led to me creating this wordy thread evaluating it (as opposed to creating threads for the 20+ other tournaments I've taken stats on) in the first place is that there were no rules and limitations.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676112#Comment_2676112
Wrecker's Yard, Rancid Abattoir and Gas Heaven are completely in line with the balance levels of a ton of other maps in this game. Are there completely ridiculous maps like Cowshed and Haddonfield that long should have been addressed? Of course, that is obvious. We cannot account for every last thing, but learning that even at the highest of levels with the most stacked of loadouts, a selection of the killer characters are perfectly able to compete doesn't get any less valuable just because we tack on "on a wide variety of maps but not necessarily all maps".
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676134#Comment_2676134
For one thing, Agony, one of the top most successful teams in DbD's tournament scene with dozens of tournament titles under their belt. Various Russian teams including many comp veterans (Russia has the biggest and most historied comp scene). Demise, composed of some of the better NA comp players. It isn't the absolutely most stacked tournament in the game's history, but these are still all players with thousands upon thousands of hours of playtime and tons of experience practicing and competing in tournament-level DbD all the time. These are absolutely some of the best there are.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676137#Comment_2676137
Guess I'll reply to this too. My post count is not even a third of yours. Feel free to say that most of your posts are low-effort spam like this though, that will help your case!
I will say that talking this much about DbD is not something I think is worth the time, but I do like talking about it if there's actual and reasonable conversation to be had and some things to be learned.
"which I did not think prior to the tournament, but I still hold that the latter is also overtuned. I don't think Blighted Crow is overtuned, but I do think Blighted Crow + Blighted Rat is."
I do not agree with this statement. If add-on was indeed so valuable and overtuned, than blight would be using Alchemist ring+C33. It is very obvious from pick rates that Blighted crow is indeed blight's most powerful add-on. I am not surprised as this is quite common for solo-queue. All good blights use Blighted crow.
In regards to nurse, Nurse's most popular add-on is Fragile wheeze. Nurses biggest weakness is holding W and cooldown on blink makes this more effective as she moves slower than survivors. Once again 100% of nurses used Fragile wheeze, again I am not surprised as every Nursed that I've ever played against in solo-queue uses this add-on. I think your overrating range add-ons.
Range and triple blink are ok secondary add-ons for gap-closing distances, otherwise as seen by one of nurses used double recovery(Dark cincture).
"they would likely average somewhere around 1.5 kills, with 4-6 stages"
I think you overestimate many of the weaker killers. I will concede with Myers, Tombstone piece is very powerful add-on. Straight moris are very powerful. See one player that was brave enough to play Oni. He got 1 kill. Most of other killers are likely to get 1 kill as well mostly from EGC facecamping and survivors being over altruistic. Otherwise 0 is most likely possible if the killer is bad at defending hooks. All other killers would suffer same fate as Oni. Just an expected result.
Poor Oni, his one good add-on topknot to give him anti-loop erased into oblivion. I wish he was a bit more competitive with less trash balancing :(
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@zarr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2669155#Comment_2669155
I already did provide a summary, if you simply read the things in bold.
TL;DR: a tournament in which every character, perk, item, add-on and offering was allowed; average kills settled slightly above 2; the game is actually reasonably well-balanced at the top end; In the tournament I'm talking about now, all restrictions were removed; 4 Styptics/Syringes, multiple Brand New Parts, 4 Dead Hards and Decisive Strikes; the killers were absolutely able to compete; average of 2.16 kills; outright victories are basically an exact split between both roles; 73% of matches were killer victories in terms of hook stages; etc.
To note: The conclusions I draw from it (and many other tournaments) are not that the game is in a perfect spot. Various killer characters are not viable enough at the highest level and do deserve buffs (in public matchmaking most killers are perfectly viable enough, we don't need all killers to be S tier, but I do think all killers should be at least B tier at base, and A tier with add-ons, which is currently not the case for a little under half of the killers), various maps are not fit for higher-level competition and should be further adjusted. Some killer and survivor add-ons are overtuned and should be toned down, or in the case of survivors, I think it would be more sensible to make it so SWF groups (i. e. where players can actually coordinate their builds) cannot use any add-on (or perk) more than once between them.
To tack something useful onto this post, here's the items, add-ons and offerings people used in this tourney:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2CFSN4HPSCSN/addonsitems.png
What I find interesting is that Brand New Parts by far dominated the field. I would have expected for Styptics and Syringes to be at least equally as common picks, but it's not even close, with BNP having 71 instances, and Styptics/Syringes only 38.
Reminder: The finals for the tournament take place tomorrow or Sunday!
I knew it that compound 33+blighted crow is best add-on combination for blight. I use it this as well.
in your post, you said alchemist ring is overtuned than you show a chart where 1 person out of 9 games uses alchemist ring. Blighted crow is 9 out 9 add-on.
Its not surprising that brand new part is most used add-on. Stypic needles aren't that strong, their main use is for egc where you can save against instant down killers by popping it before hook save with BT. They can extend looping in some cases and give killer bad early game. Sometimes they provide more value than BNP,
When your using 4 toolbox with BNP, Healing isn't too important because most of the games are so fast that you are unlikely to heal, so you do not need COH. COH is old self-care. Long match = good. short match=bad.
Saying killer is balanced when only 3 killers are being played with ebony mori, best perks, best add-ons is a bit misleading. Try playing killers like ghostface, legion, wraith, demo, pig with like no anti-loop than look at results. even if killer tried to play camping killers like trickster, clown with pinky, myers, billy, hag and so on, they'd probably struggle to secure 2 kills on average. just my 2 cents on it.
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I thought of gaming change add-on for Oni. Oni starts with his ability fully charged as Iri add-on.
If you want to make it super game changing, Make it charge his power fully charge up every time he hooks someone, though this part might be too powerful.
I think ability fully charged at the start of the match might be more fair.
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@Blueberry said:
Speaking of which, almost half the ultra rares in the game could have their negative effects removed entirely and they'd be perfectly fine. Most the negative effects on them are just so unnecessary which is why most killers best addons aren't their ultra rares (but they should be).
If our argument is going to be that the ultra rares are supposed to just be game changing and not strong then they shouldn't in fact be ultra rares anymore. The ultra rarity was originally put in place because they were supposed to be strong effects.
Ultra-rare add-on aren't the best because they don't know what is valuable for a killer power. Take latest killer which is Artist. What would be a valuable ultra-rare add-on for her ability? 4 second instant down and undetectable when getting swarmed certainly is not it.
A good add-on for her would be that she can injure survivors with her ranged ability without survivor needing to be swarmed. Her other complementary add-on could be that her charge time when placing crows is tremendously(50%) reduced so you can place crow and fire rapidly, maybe add-on also removed that 0.5 second cooldown between placing crows.
Most of artist add-ons seem heavily rushed.
Amanda letter can be used with her Video tape where you can both her traps and aura reading, but issue is that Pig's m/s crouch is heavily under-powered and same can be said about ambush dash. I would also say that even her traps right now are too underwhelming for slowdown. 4 base box is too much rng. she could use 5th box to mitigate the remove headtrap in 1 box problem.
But as we all know, they only look at stats and since pig was like 2nd best killer by killrates, she won't change.
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@Blueberry said:
I definitely would not say S.
A seems more reasonable and I could even see an argument for high B.
I definitely don't think she's bad, but people are way over exaggerating.
dunno. With tar bottle and her fastening carrion add-on that increase repel swarm time and reduce cooldown. you can fire 1 crow, swarm them than just shoot 2-3 crow that snipe through walls. you can also put a crow near pallet facing a window and it mostly shutdown the tile loop.
I've been running Oppression+Survellance+Ruin+Scourge hook: Pain Resonance where Oppression+Survellance just hightlight every gen in yellow and there is gimmick with her ability where you can line up 2 crows back to back and get injures.
so she has anti-loop to counter tileset play, a ranged attack to counter hold-W strategies and global map pressure & information.
I think my only major complaint playing her is dead hard. Its really hard counter to her ranged attack and without yellow/grey add-on, you can't use her ranged attack properly. I wish her repel was 1 second longer so that I could run green exhaustion add-on to remove dead hard.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2667365#Comment_2667365
I'd agree with the commenter above who suggested something like rattlesnake sounds; subtle but audible, so aware survivors can react but unaware survivors can still be caught off guard.
Quick scope was obviously a problem, that argument's been had to death.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2667313#Comment_2667313
Not all ranged killers are 110%, and not all 110% killers are ranged. That's the general trend but it doesn't always work one to one- the 110% is usually to compensate for either range or lethality, like Hag traps letting her have a lethal presence further than her melee range without actually being a ranged killer.
I think Slinger should be 115 because his range is already pretty low, and the lethal range is even lower. He needs an edge in loops that isn't quickscoping, which was always unfair, and I think making him move at regular killer speed (on top of a slightly faster ADS) would be the way to go.
18 meter is not low range. 18 meter diameter is massive. His lethality was among the highest the game. He could shoot, recover with 8 stacks of stbfl and than imminently shoot to knock 2 health states in span of 10 seconds. that's among fastest non-instant downs in the entire game. Pair with this with the fact that he had 16 meter TR with M&A, survivors who did not react in time to his terror radius tune would quickly go down.
His edge at loops IS quickscoping. In fact this is ONLY redeeming quality along with lower TR. It wasn't unfair either, it took skill to land his shots consistently and survivors could have very tricky movement that made it difficult to land his shot. Also his window zoning was not even confirmed hits because of chain durability. Pallet hits were not confirmed either because other killers e.g huntress could throw hatchets in places where survivor is bottleneck such as space between the pallet. He had make reads as his gun has narrow hitbox and in many cases, he had to shoot before survivor got to the pallet such that he prevents survivor from dropping, else he wouldn't get downs.
115% m/s is lazy balancing. he doesn't need it. he just needs revert. its that simple really. you even agree upon it because your literally admit that his ADS is a problem.
Unfair is god pallets in the game, pallets where when pallet dropped, a vast majority of killer have to break it with zero gameplay value. Unfair is holding W where a vast majority of the killers lack the tools to injure a survivor chaining safe tile after tile. that is far more unfair than what quickscope ever was.
@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2667313#Comment_2667313
Really?
Plague, Nemesis, PH and Artist are what?
The other killers are not reliable. they're more situational. ranged =/ 110%.
reliability and dependency on power affects whether killer needs 115% or 110%. None of killer named have reliable powers. Ironically all of them could be 110% but they'd need remove all their drawbacks. Plague could be ranged 110% if her ability was corrupt puke was only ability and it was permanent etc.
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@jesterkind said:
Don't revert it, improve it. Most of what they did was necessary (excluding the TR increase, that one feels suspect to me), but it wasn't handled particularly well.
Make him ADS slightly quicker (without it being the same speed as the old quickscope, I think there's a middle ground that can be found there), make him 115%, and possibly replace the TR increase with a lullaby radius? If not, maybe some more reliable TR addons. After that, Slinger would be in a much better spot.
ranged killers are balanced on 110%. Making him 115% won't solve his actual problem which is having ######### gun.
90% of their negative killer changes apart from nurse have been disaster so much so that just about every single one of their changes will eventually need to be reverted.
he needs revert, pretty much all of them do. killers would be in way better place.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2666001#Comment_2666001
"Don't know how you come to the conclusion that he's a worse demo. Demo suffers worse penalties for whiffing his power, and that power does not go through pallets and windows, making it far weaker in loops. Nemesis also has passive intel and pressure. In theory."
Worst penalties for whiffing isn't quite accurate as many times the distance moved can actually be more beneficial. Also, Demos power is significantly more easy to land. Nemesis tentacle can be juked quite easily. Demo doesn't need to go through windows because if you know how to play Demo you time it at animation lock and you get the hit every time anyway. The only thing Nemesis has going for him is over pallets and even that's a stretch as he requires T2 to break pallets whereas Demo has it from the very beginning. You're also generally always running the increase pallet break addon meaning you're shredding them extremely fast whereas Nemesis is auto locked on Marvins Blood just to even get to pallet breaking within a reasonable amount of time. Nemesis passive intel and pressure "in theory" is the key words because realistically you aren't getting almost any pressure from them and very limited information. You're probably getting more info from even Demo portal pings than zombies not to mention way, way more reliable match pressure from teleporting around than what pitiful pressure you're getting from the zombies.
Do we even also need to add that Demo doesn't need 3 hits to down? Or that most Nemesis addons are bad with one even being force auto locked?
Like I said, nearly everything Demo does just better.
"Because, IMO, that is Nemesis' actual problem: the zombie AI is busted. If they do what they're supposed to, Nemesis is fine. If they faceplant into a tree, he's underwhelming."
The zombie AI getting stuck is an issue, but even if they never got stuck they would still be barely useful in most matches. Even calling them map pressure is being generous.
"Fix the zombies. Then re-evaluate."
That's so little of an improvement and he's so far below par I think he would need a lot more before we even give the first re-evaluate.
I disagree. Nemesis anti-loop is far superior because he can drag his tentacle hitbox. I would also say that his tentacle strike has quick wind-up compare to demo shred. Demo has to charge his shred to get full distance. Demo shred often forces demo to commit to blind reads.
The main counter-point to demo is that demo's shred has bigger hitbox therefore he can bottleneck survivors from a range but his best case reward for these situations are pallet drops unlike nemesis that can hit over pallets.
A counter-point to nemesis anti-loop is that you can crouch as his tentacle hits you thus avoiding hit.
I would say its unclear for which anti-loop is easier to avoid.
both of them have time inefficiency. Demo loses time efficiency because he has to place portals around the map as he goes around the map chasing survivors. Nemesis loses time efficiency because survivors has 3 health states against his power and they can get 4th one from the crates
Add-on wise, they're a bit strange. Nemesis best add-on are marvin blood and serotonin injector. Demo best add-ons are barbed glasses and Leprose lichen. Its hard to compare these add-on because of what their base-kit is. Nemesis base-kit pallet break is better than demo. its just that he takes time to get it. Marvin blood makes him get t2 in 2 hits and he needs hit survivors to actually use his anti-loop. Demo has to use yellow add-on to get as good pallet break as nemesis.
Demo when walking out of a portal already has undetectable status effect, Its just that his footsteps are loud enough that undetectable status effect is ineffective. Demo in general is very loud killer. Nemesis is less loud but he is very tall and in general, he does not make that great use of undetectable, but given how pointless every other add-on is, it does allow him to start chases closer to the survivor. Undetectable status effect ends up being strong for nemesis because his zombies are strong indoor maps, so undetectable for nemesis makes him that much more nasty in indoor maps.
Nemesis already has build in tracking because zombies show where survivors are and the needles show killer instinct. Demo has to use Iri add-on that gives him like 3 second of aura reading after coming out of a portal. Its basically global BBQ on 10 second cooldown without range limit. It is better tracking but it is iri add-on after all. More comparable, Demo has lesser add-on called lifeguard whistle which gives him killer instinct whenever a survivor is near a portal which are often placed near generators. Lifeguard whistle is about as good as nemesis zombie tracking.
Leprose lichen is probably strongest anti-stealth add-on in the game, but its limited on the fact that the points that you can get on aura reading are limited by portal placements to take advantage of information.
conclusively, I'd say that nemesis is better on indoor maps because indoor maps are smaller and have narrow hallways where zombies can do a lot. Demogorgon is better on outdoor maps because outdoor maps such as... Mother dwelling are bigger, so the ability to move from one location to another can be great advantage when the portals are setup. I'd say both of the killer have no chance vs strong teams.
They're too time inefficient. Most of their gameplay ends up being pallet-break simulator from safe loop design and shift-W simulator from health state design. The only way I could see these two being good is if their pallet break was faster and their powers had instant down capacity(such add having an add-on like clown pinky finger where shred/tentacle strike put survivor in a dying state).
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2664704#Comment_2664704
This is an accurate representation of tier list levels. Totally agree.
I hate when people call killers in B tier balanced. Extremely weak is not balanced.
Unfortunately the level of balance that DBD seems to aim their killers for is around B tier, which explains a lot of the problems we have.
I don't really get it either.. I think about 80% of the killers are basically b-tier where they need such major changes to remotely be playable at high MMR level. none of the killers really feel like they're S-tier in the sense that no killer in DBD feels like they can win semi-consistently vs strong teams.
The killers that are almost balanced are becoming less balanced and rapidly joining 80% of unfun section where their negative changes require a revert.
I feel Spirit was only S-tier because of mother daughter ring+strong base-kit. Now her base-kit is so bad that she relies on Mother daughter ring to just be remotely playable. I also really dislike playing against her now because she is super brain dead against with the sound and playing as her is also braindead as cherry blosom is like old stridor without the actual skill of sound tracking.
its sad that her skill-floor is so low now on both sides.
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@coldestwinter123 said:
This is not a problem with Blood echo. This is just a straight up balancing philosophy.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2661671#Comment_2661671
why would a survivor suffer from exposed status effect if they are injured?
So what is the counterplay not healing?
if two survivors heal at the same time would they both get exposed or neither?
The flavor text is dope tho.
i think his idea is to punish survivors for healing, it would be strong perk for Wraith. any killer that has undetectable would make great use of it. It has funny synergy with the perk deathbound where you can get exposed and oblivious for survivor healing.
I'd say dbd has mostly given up on making fun killer perks. I mean look at new killer, Artist. the new killer literally has 3 gen defense perks. Talk about following the meta much.
in general dbd is way too safe on killer perks. they can't even release a perk like hex:pentimento without nerfing it 2 days in ptb. so that should give you an idea for how "safe" dbd goes with killer perks.
Blood echo as a perk has one job. preventing survivor from using exhaust perks and it can't even do that one job well. Blood echo will never be good perk because its killer perk that is designed to trump survivor exhaustion perks and they don't like when killer perks trump exhaustion perks. (See Stridor vs Iron will,COH+Shadowstep on Nurse calling, Exhaustion add-on for killers etc.).
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Did OP watch the video? Otz openly says that he does not dislike MMR system. he says in the video that he is mostly used to it and his matches are fine.
In comment section, most of posts do not necessary talk about disliking MMR system. instead complaints are that BVHR does more poor job of balancing killers, therefore killer have lack of fun in their games when playing weaker killers. as a result, the game is very survivor-sided. Hopefully they stop making negative changes towards killer as it discouraging killer players to play killer which otz describes as longer queue times.
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Just remove token system and make it just base-change improvement like brutal strength and bamboozle.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2653002#Comment_2653002
"Maybe at your level" MMR is deadass a joke, since its based on mainly on escapes and kills its basically made like the old system, potato survivors eventually climb the higher ranks and so do killers who have no business being up there, because its no challenge climbing up.
At first it seemed to be working, how ever thats how the old ranks worked as well. Majority of the time if you saw some one who was Rank 1 just a few hours after reset there's a good chance they're an actual good player. Give it a week and Red ranks was filled with potatoes, not their fault they can only move up and its not like they need to try that hard to do it.
At first MMR was hard, I some times face really good teams (Hell I ran into Oracle and Agony at one point), but most of the time you still face very average players. I can still 4k pretty consistently without gen regression and have been doing so way before MMR was introduced
"MMR is deadass a joke, since its based on mainly on escapes and kills its basically made like the old system, potato survivors eventually climb the higher ranks and so do killers who have no business being up there, because its no challenge climbing up."
bad survivors stay bad and consistently lose. Unless I play bad with my killer and lose thus decreasing my MMR, I rarely go against weak survivors now.
"I can still 4k pretty consistently without gen regression and have been doing so way before MMR was introduced"
definitely not my experience. if anything, I just keep seeing threads of "Killer is unplayable" and so on. Its not true. killer is playable. its just difficult to play because all killers keep getting nerfed. your statement is in minority.
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@Kebek said:
It's typical that they just push out bad changes that community specifically said are bad no matter the feedback.
A lot of players asked to make slinger more "interactive" to play against so BHVR went and made something up that was later reviewed by players as too much but they released them anyway not caring about feedback as they tend to. They should have either went with baby steps on such changes or give him some meaningful buff to his 4v1 in return.
It happened with Billy rework, with Twins nerf and now with Deathslinger changes.
It's sad they just release these low effort bandaid changes and then ignore these killers for years before even attempting to make it right.
Making a killer more "interactive" is asking them to be reduced to rumble.
They did make him more "interactive" by making him easy to bully in a chase. The survivor community ask for these change and they received. I'm surprised that otz doesn't main deathslinger now as he suggested these changes in his video so surely these changes would make him his favorite character to play.
@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2652305#Comment_2652305
Billy is far from bottom tier. But yea. People will complain enough eventually those other characters could be nerfed. But I doubt it.
Maybe add on passes. But blight still is great even without them
they'd nerf his blight base-kit. Just imagine a change like "Increased blight stun when colliding object from 0.5 to 2 second" and suddenly blight's trash because one of strongest aspect of him is ability to instantly bounce off an object than run at the survivor unlike all other killers that have like 2.5 second cast times to use ability cough billy saw, Oni dash, wraith uncloak, so on. It would largely make his 4 tokens worthless as well.
any killer can go from hero to zero and vice versa, zero to hero.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2650630#Comment_2650630
A good Survivor would be able to dodge Deathslinger at range before anyway, his viability at range has barely changed.
Also "Low tier play" is Im sure all you and 99% of this forum is playing in, including myself.
Yall aint going against tourney squads, youre going against people who simply play with their friends at best, and in that setting any killer is viable.
Maybe at your level. I can tell If i am playing against weak survivors, average survivors or strong survivors. with your logic, every killer barely changes.
your statement is reference to what used to be the case before MMR where you were just facing random mixes of skill-level where there were 2 weak links and maybe 1-2 strong players where it was easy to snowball off weak links and than just win 2vs1 as killer. any killer is viable vs weak survivors but when you get to high enough level as killer, you stop facing weak survivors and you need get to used facing stronger players where your killer has to actually able to perform and outplay better players. changes such as those spirit changes and slingers impair that and negatively affect higher players without doing too much on low-levels because killers don't really need good abilities vs survivors that can't loop and take 10+ minutes to do 5 gens.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2650480#Comment_2650480
Making a correct read is literally guessing right, a read is simply guessing with a fancy name.
Also you say we need killers that counter the shift W meta... you do that with mobility...
Hillbilly is still very solid he's just very unforgiving to play, imo he's the hardest killer to play as making a mistake can be very punishing
Deathslinger has no mobility, he just countered shift-w by the fact that he could shoot survivors between loops. now he has trouble going for long range shots from survivors being able react to his shot now. your post is complaining that blueberry's viewpoint of making guesses towards spirit power is invalid counter-play and that deathslinger was unfun to play against because of needing to make reads against his gun.
He's solid for low-tier play like every killer just like current spirit is.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2650232#Comment_2650232
That "counterplay" is assuming the Spirit is blindly phasing every time she gets the chance
All she needed to do to nullify that is stand still for a second, see what the survivor is doing and then start phasing
If she see's no scratchmarks being made she could of easily stopped phasing, a walking survivor isnt going to be too far from the last set of scratchmarks they left behind
Also feedback in a game like this is essential, the chase is what makes this game and is pretty much the only time the killer and survivor have an interaction with each other, its why killers like Spirit or Deathslinger were complained about so much. To the survivor perspective it wasnt them playing the game, but them basically watching a cutscene. They knew they didnt have much chance in chase, so good survivors would just slam gens or kill themselves on hook because no matter the outcome, that game wasnt fun. It aint fun to watch a Spirit stand still and all of a sudden your dead and it aint fun to sit on a gen half the game and escape.
Same goes for killers, it isnt fun being a killer with no mobility and watching a survivor just hold W 30m away, you might as well be watching a cutscene
I don't know about that. when i went against old spirit, i escaped like 60% of my games and many of the chases for spirit were long when I was making the correct reads like Blueberry was mentioning. The people that complained about Spirit and Deathslinger are just bad survivor, so for them, playing vs every killer was just watching a cut-scene.
I am not sure how much looking around you can do vs a drop jungle gym pallet. As blueberry said, you force spirit to make guess on you, not the other way around. Playing killer is not about the mobility, Billy has best mobility in the game, but his mobility isn't good for the chase. killers don't need mobility, what they need is counters to shift-W towards looping aspect of the game and spirit has that. Its just that that her tileset gameplay is really crap now because of her nerfs.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2650062#Comment_2650062
That's kinda the only saving grace with less people running Iron Will now. I had the same speculation as you. As you mentioned though, if they are running Iron Will good luck lol.
I usually just play spirit with mother daughter ring and cherry blosom, I have downed survivors with Iron will. I could never really play spirit in her current form for more than day to be honest. They took all the skill out of playing her and and made her most brain dead auto-pilot killer imaginable. She is more of a play her once a week for memes killer.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2649975#Comment_2649975
She was complained about because she took a lot of skill to understand how to play against her and the average survivor doesn't have very much skill.
"Lack of feedback isn’t really fun to go against"
This statement right here is the core of why people have no understanding of Spirit. If you are looking for feedback from Spirit in the first place you fundamentally don't understand how to play against Spirit. If you are looking for feedback you are doing it wrong. You are trying to play against Spirit in the same way you play against other killers.
You played against old Spirit by reversing that thought process and making her look for feedback from you. You had to play against Spirit pro-actively, not re-actively. It's the total opposite of other killers.
You manipulate what she is hearing and seeing to force her to make guesses, not you.
"she wasn’t balanced like she is now"
She isn't balanced now. "Balanced" by dev standards is trash against even remotely decent survivors.
"It wasn’t about her strength at all and the things that make her strong are still there."
No. The things that made her strong are completely removed. All of the counter play that survivors used to have to use that I just went over are completely unnecessary now. You can totally loop her like other killers now. The skill required to play against Spirit is very low now and instead of the survivors having to be skilled enough to force Spirit to make guesses the Spirit is by default forced to make guesses now.
"a skill required to play against Spirit is very low now and instead of the survivors having to be skilled enough to force Spirit to make guesses the Spirit is by default forced to make guesses now."
You know funny part is that spirit cannot even guess because I do not have enough information for spirit to use to make guesses. Iron will users are completely invisible now. The good news is that from what I've noticed, Iron will is becoming a lot less used right now and my speculation for this that most survivor players seem to have replaced Iron will with Circle of healing.
The survivor that still use Iron will though, they're nearly invincible now with spirit's power. I faced one spirit that tried to chase me one game and I literally had 5 gen chase vs Spirit. I don't think I have ever done that with old spirit. Poor girl. She got bully simulator treatment.
I stopped playing her after Stridor nerf. I knew she was going to get destroyed after that change.
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@Kebek said:
Tbh I wouldn't mind this design philosophy IF it was consistent for both sides.
For one, they want to make each killer's power reactable when predicting the power's use is already fair counterplay in some cases if not outright more effective then plain reaction dodging as long as you can get into your opponents head.
But on the second hand, devs design and on purpose leave in game really strong loops with 0 mindgame which are just huge time sink in a game that's about time management for killers.
If you want each power to be made "fair" for survivors to react to and outplay, then you should be really upset and vocal about current map and loops balance as well. Most loops are either long enough to be extremely safe or are open so that there is not mindgame and killer just has to take the loop and break the pallet hoping next loop is more fair.
I just love when someone says that killer power is unfair and has no counterplay while comepletely ignoring the fact that most loops in DBD are exactly the same for killers. Both should be getting attention, not just killer powers but also "fairness" of loops should be rebalanced.
i think killer powers should not be reactable. they should also have very limited drawbacks. drawbacks for killer powers should help facilitate mindgames kinda like old spirit and old billy, like the inability to see survivor forces the killer to make predictions based off sound and limited steering for billy at high speed forces him to commit to curves without being able to adjust mid-curve.
Ideally, all pallets that are unsafe happen to be unsafe because slide animation+length of pallet is smaller than killer's reach(lunge distance). If all the pallets were just made unsafe, than killer wouldn't need any anti-loop tools in first place.
In recent Q&A, one of the questions was about why boons were added to the game and the response was that boons were intended to provide safe havens for survivors. this is very problematic answer because current loop design follows this answer to a dime. so until their safe haven design philosophy for loop design is altered, the game for killer will never be balanced.
I find it funny that the most balanced killer now in DBD is the one killer that removes all elements of loop design and has least reactable power in the game. I bet its because survivors have not been able to filter Nurse's power like they're able to filter out spirit and deathslinger. Maybe survivors one day will figure out to complain about nurse's blink movement speed(m/s During blink animation) and they'll add a blink marker for survivor so they can see where nurse will reappear before she blinks. After that, she'll be just as much of a toy as every other killer is for survivor.
good news is that most killer players can't play her properly, so maybe she is safe statistically compare to all other killers.
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@FrostySeal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2648790#Comment_2648790
Yeah, I guess that's the issue, finding out exactly how to buff Oni. I used to play and main Oni until Blight came along and ever since then most of the time I play Oni it just feels really frustrating having pallets just pre-dropped and me not being able to do anything about it. I do understand where your coming from though, his power is one of the most powerful in the game, and making it easier to get is going to have a massive effect on him but at the same time it just feels so unfair when you're helpless for a good chunk of the match if the survivors don't give you an easy first hit. Maybe it's not something that can be solved by just simply changing Oni but I do feel like he deserves changes with Blight being a thing.
I stopped playing him after top knot nerf. He is overrated killer now. They also stealth nerfed his 180 degree turning cap to 140 degree turning cap without saying anything. He has max normal turning cap of 90 and hard cap of 140 now. To make most use out of his power,
you need to use 140 degree cap exploit, otherwise his dash is unusable at loops vs smart looping survivors. The start up of the dash is just too slow. I wish the change was reverted.
beyond his m1 weaknesses, even when he gets his power, the power only lasts 45 seconds and your punished every time you down someone.
Blight's just a straight up stronger version of Oni now with lower cooldowns and less punishment. if his iri tag gave instant down on every lethal rush, he'd be an oni with 10 second cooldown demon dash. Oni's only advantage is being able to instant down now but the time it takes to get his ability is not worth instant down.
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@Pulsar said:
Me and my friend (@Shdw_Void) were discussing what maps are traditionally Killer-sided versus which are traditionally Survivor-sided and we wanted to know your opinions. We spent about 5 hours on this, so I hope it's good lmao. I've included a stream of us discussing each map, so if you want our reasoning/justifications, you can watch it. We both have about 3K-4K hours.
We couldn't quite agree on Haddonfield vs Cowshed, he said he'll sleep on it, so we'll see. What do you all think of the maps in DBD?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/17S6ZBO02J45/dbd-png.png
Here's a brief breakdown in case the image is fuzzy or otherwise funky:
Very Killer-Sided ~ Shelter Woods and Aazarov's Resting Place.
Slightly Killer-Sided ~ Suffocation Pit, Coal Tower, Hawkins National Laboratory, Wrecker's Yard, The Pale Rose and Wretched Shop.
Neutral ~ Torment Creek, Father Campbell's Chapel and Family Residence.
Slightly Survivor-Sided ~ Mount Ormond Resort, Blood Lodge, Grim Pantry, Rancid Abattoir, Treatment Theatre, Temple of Purgation, Ironworks of Misery, The Thompson House, Sanctum of Wrath, Rotten Fields, Midwich Elementary, Badham Preschool I, Badham Preschool IV and Dead Dawg Saloon.
Very Survivor-Sided ~ Fractured Cowshed, Lampkin Lane, Disturbed Ward, Badham III, Racoon City Police Department, Groaning Storehouse, Badham V, Gas Heaven, Badham II, The Game and Mother's Dwelling.
here's the link to the stream:
tier-list on maps always make me smile because I personally think they're wrong. I think almost every map in the game is survivor-sided. The main maps that are hard to discern are Dead dog saloon, Shelter woods, wrecker yard,wretched shop,father chapel, and azeroth resting place. they're probably least survivor sided maps.
Indoor maps can summarized in four words. Unsafe generators, unfair pallet design. they're lopsided maps. What makes them lopsided would take too many sentences to write.
They tend to have low kill-rate because they're hard maps for survivor to play because you need high degree of map knowledge, generator coordination and planned routing to win. I'd argue they're highest skill-cap ceiling maps for survivor.
The rest of the maps pretty auto-win for survivor. Badham, Haddonfield and Cowshed being worst offenders. They're mainly badly balanced for killer because of gen speed, holding-W and safe pallet design with safe tile design.
The map I always find funny in the listings that everyone seems to think is balanced is Coal tower. I think its because the map was one of the first maps in DBD to be invented and compare to original maps, it was weaker than rest. Its very survivor sided map, among top 10 survivor sided maps. The map itself before breakable walls had an infinity window and it can spawn 5 tile sets, some of which are horrendous for m1 killers such as T-L wall into T-L as well as Long-wall pallets facing into Long-wall Jungle gym windows and just many jungle gyms overall. It is also a map littered with pallets everywhere while being very big vertical for shift-w.
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@Cancan71 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647118#Comment_2647118
I would argue that his power is more like the Artist, as she can shut down loops with her crows and prevent survivors from vaulting as they have to dodge or take damage. In addition she has ranged attacks and map pressure, while having 15% more speed while summoning crows.
The Doctor should at least be 3.68 m/s while charging his power like the Artist.
he would likely be too strong. the current doctor power does help doctor in a chase, but it doesn't allow him to outright cancel every single survivor action. only most important actions. If his shock therapy movement was increased, he could virtually cancel every single survivor action with very little negatives and constantly spam his power with no drawbacks.
current power forces doctor player to selective choose his shocks and you need some timing and precision to get it right. you need to do combination of shocks and make reads as m1 killer to get most out of his ability. Basically if you just recklessly just spam your ability with no thought process behind it, His shock therapy will make chases longer rather than shorter.
fun fact: If you think he is slow now, you should seen him before he got reworked, He used to have this mode called treatment that made him move at 110%. He was even slower than he is now.
If it were to get changed. it would be need very minimal increase. maybe 3.4 at most.
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@Blueberry said:
She needs something. She got dumpstered.
We literally pallet loop her in solo queue now, it's sad.
i suspect that spirit will receive another nerf to her mother daughter ring and cherry blosom add-on combinaton. Usually when they weaken killers, they're usually destroy them completely, 100- 0.
Spirit's not dead yet, 2 add-ons allow her to somewhat be threatful, in solo-queue but she's has no chance now vs good swf anymore, just lower-average killer now with those two add-ons, and unplayable without them. On bright side, at least its better than billy, freddy and slinger for now.
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@glitchboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2642661#Comment_2642661
It seems like you're implying the problem is CoH, and not Legion.
Not sure what you mean with that second and third question, so you should probably elaborate on those two because I'm confused on them. I would assume you mean the effectiveness of a survivor getting to a loop, it would simply make Legion more forgiving and enjoyable to play as, as well as being able to down a survivor faster.
Mending simulator is Legion's slowdown ability, and being able to injure everyone at once as well.
I'm implying that injuring survivors is not a rewarding ability. It becomes even less rewarding when the time efficiency is trumped by a survivor healing perk. Mending is not an effective slowdown ability and has little relevance right now.
How would the ability become less forgiving? If reaches the a loop, Lower fatique will have little impact on the outcome of the chase. If it is too short that the Legion can cancel and hit the survivor before the survivor reaches a loop than why even have two hits? Legion is perfectly enjoyable to play as M1 killer however the ability is lackluster.
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@R2k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2642661#Comment_2642661
COH has nothing to do with Legion. Legion sucked before boons came out, and now sucks more.
It's a killer that has nothing to 1v1 and that's real problem. Like why would I want to chain hit survivors if i can't down them.
I rly want to see his Fatigue set to 2.5 so with addons it was around 2.0 so there won't be gameplay around push survivors to hit u with pallet*. And his addons rework. I don't see anyone uses Brown addons and his Iri addons are meh compared to how Rng games are.
I agree with your first statement.
The lack of 1vs1 is the problem I am trying solve in this post, however I'm looking survivors to gain interaction with legion's ability. This is what I came up with. For reference, This version of dead hard does not exhaust the survivor and can be re-used in a chase.
Unfortunately I did not come up with a solution to remove mending from Legion as this mechanic is necessary for survivors to take off mark, Otherwise, There would be greater benefit staying marked by Legion than taking it off as it greatly enhances survivors ability in chase.
This is just brainstorm Idea toward mid-chapter patch for Legion.
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@glitchboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2642620#Comment_2642620
Yeah I agree with this, increase the speed of FF for more consistent frenzy chains on larger maps, and shorten the fatigue duration. Maybe some other buffs or QoL changes as well idk, but more importantly, new add-ons. I like current Legion's gameplay and what it aims for.
Current legion gameplay doesn't make sense anymore with Circle of healing. The opportunity cost of healing is irrelevant. The power has no lethality(It cannot down survivors in a timely matter). Its only used its information ability, but in order to use this information ability, you must find another survivor to acquire it, but do you really need information if you have already found another survivor?
Another question ask, Whats the difference between Legion hitting the survivor, Running up to them and than M1 them outside of the loop from lesser fatique compare to Legion instant down them out of position?
If fatique for example is supposedly changed from 4->3. What difference does this actually make between the survivor getting to a loop or not? Would it even have any impact on gameplay? If the fatique is removed entirely, than why is not it an instant down at that point?
Current Legion gameplay aims to be an M1 killer with ineffective ability.
The duration add-ons already successfully achieve consistent frenzy chain hits. They are not global but I doubt Legions effectiveness would change even if Legion could successfully land 4 individual feral frenzy chain hits. If anything, This would just add more mending similulator to the survivor without any true potency.
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i think expanding hook range to 25 meters would be ok, wiggle speed would be way overkill with breakout.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2640503#Comment_2640503
Pretty much agree with everything you've said. Them balancing around low skill survivor is inevitably the root of the problem.
"I thought we might get a discussion going of potential ways to improve him not only in terms of strength but also in terms of enjoyment to play as and against him."
I'm sure survivors enjoy him as he is now. so expect no changes.
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- For every survivor currently infected zombies gain an addition 25% move speed.
- Every time a survivor is hit with Tentacle Strike zombies move 25% faster for 10 seconds. During this boost period zombies are significantly louder.
- Zombie detection range increased by 8m and field of view increased by 18 degrees. (Admin Wristband basically)
These changes are more directed for Nemesis to use his zombies like moving trapper traps where you can funnel the survivor into zombies and it would give zombies a lot more threat in general in bigger maps where distances for them to patrol are big for them to make any difference.
We had a bit of this going on in PTB for Nemesis, than they weakened zombies detection range and made zombies louder post PTB. The survivors comments regarding zombies if I remember correctly was something like "Zombies are low skill map pressure that auto win the game for killer". I can't remember what precisely the feedback was regarding them, but it was something like that. It increases skill-cap of using zombies, but to the survivor's perceptive, it just looks like PVE mechanic that is defeating them and they don't like that so I doubt they'd ever do that. He could also use an extra zombie so there killer+3 zombies, 1 zombie for each survivor.
"Reduce the speed boost gained from tentacle strike on causing infection. (basically only when it's used to cause infection, not cause damage)"
"Mutation rate when hitting survivors increased by 33% (Marvins Blood)"
This I doubt they'll ever change, apparently they think nemesis's 1vs1 is oppressive because you need make reads at pallets and survivors don't like 50/50's as seen by spirit and deathslinger changes etc. This ironically his biggest problem right now a chase killer is that he almost has negative corrupt intervention because his early game is so bad that he spend first 1-2 minute of the game getting his ability which doesn't do damage therefore survivors are likely to always complete 3 gens before he even hits tier 3 and gets his first hook.
"Using a vaccine takes 10 seconds longer."
Another aspect they'll never change about him. His ability to give free stypic needles as item in a chase just double down on giving him a bad early game. Very few survivors even utilize this mechanic against him. I'm pretty sure the reason why its like 4 seconds to heal is because they want survivors to have extra health states vs his "oppressive" power 1vs1. Allows them to shift+W longer, makes his early game worse so its easier to genrush him before his anti-loop becomes remotely relevant.
They'd never change any of these mechanics for nemesis because they do not want killer's skill to be expressed in any killer. Nemesis has probably most potencial out of new killers they've released. He's just bold down by a bunch of negative mechanics that make him purposely underwhelming so that survivors won't complain about him.
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@Kebek said:
Probably because EVERY SINGLE KILLER since Ghostaface had good or strong anti-loop power.
Blight - godly antiloop when played properly, guaranteed hits which when well aimed are unavoidable.
PH - antiloop power that goes throw walls requiring a lot of pippoint predictions or getting really close with good LOS.
Deahstliner - speaks for itself.
Oni - delayed snowball antiloop power that is among best in the game capable of 4 man slugging everyone under 1 min if survivors reveal themselfs.
Demogorgon - Shred is amazing at cutting loops short and zoning, another good antiloop power.
Ghostface - 100% complete stealth strategical power with exposed options so it's understandable he doesn't have any actul antiloop since he's supposed to end chases before they even start
And many more killers before GF are the same.
Ofc all of these have more gimmicks thrown into the mix but about 90% of DBD killers do have antiloop powers, some stronger, some weaker but in the end every power exists to help killers beat survivors in chase since that's what matters the most and creates most interesting gameplay.
Nobody wants to play vs killer who doesn't bring anything interesting or new to the chase and is just plain M1 killer who's power slows down gen repair speed by 50%, that's an excuse for a power.
Would it be nice if devs could come up with something really unique and new so that new killer doesn't need antiloop power ? Yes but that's work and a lot of thinking which is hard so probably not worht the effort for them to leave the working 110% and 115% killer formula.
"Ghostface - 100% complete stealth strategical power with exposed options so it's understandable he doesn't have any actul antiloop since he's supposed to end chases before they even start"
Too bad he is bad at his own play-style. Stalking often gives away his position and he has no gap-close to confirm the downs after he has marked someone. If I was designing a killer to have easy games as survivor, he checks all the boxes.
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@Kebek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2637520#Comment_2637520
That's going to be her average playstyle should she stays the same as on PTB. Her max potencil is what the theoretical limit is which with her is landing every single crow on anyone no matter the circumstances all the time, as I said not possible but is the theoretical top potencial.
That's why I would like some changes to make shooting crows as often as possible and getting rewared for beiing good with them. The trapping is cheesy and should be rebalanced, the damage should be removed from trapping, the swarm should stay and so that it's not only nerfs (we want another S tier killer afterall), I'd add 10% hindered for 5s when you walk through a crow or something like that. That and more changes would do her good.
If devs make some changes to reward skillful gameplay with her and nerf some of the easy to use cheese, she's going to be absolute blast to play for both, killers and survivors.
that doesn't change anything. Hindered ability would just make her have freddy snares. if you want 115% m/s killer with hindered traps, than you should pick freddy. She is designed to be trapping killer first before being ranged killer. her range is more secondary to her ability and further enforces her zoning. Its not about trapping. Its about lining up arrows alongside trajectories and than firing when a survivor cross the said trajectory.
how good her range is has yet to be realized. We would need see her on live servers vs survivors that have good movement to see how viable that is though I imagine that hitting twice in small time frame is recipe for long chase. The skillful ranged killers reside in deathslinger, huntress, trickster. Too bad one of them got the dev hammer and k-pop guy struggles to win.
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@Kebek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2636596#Comment_2636596
Yeah for one time shot of 1 crow each time at best, none of these perks last long enough to come even close to fulfilling her max potencial. You'd need to shoot and land crow cross map blind every 5 seconds to reach her max potencial, not a single aura reading perk comes even close, they help but good game sence of survivor movement would do far more for you.
her max potential will be reached in less than a month assuming she can get off PTB without BVHR doing a large amount of negative changes. Her highest potential is a trapping hag who will also be a ranged killer with some tracking. I do not think this is better than Nurse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9xuMaN6w1kScott viewpoint on the killer is most accurate viewpoint in my opinion. map-ranged gen sniping will be a easy gimmick that survivors will easily adapt to very quickly. People are definitely overestimating her complexity and how simple she will be to pick up for almost any player.
Maybe if she had the ability to send a crow and than teleport to the flying crow mid-flight, she'd be S-tier but that would just be another Nurse.
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clown with all add-ons. 8(?) seconds of antitode, 7 bottles, 16 meter of aura reading in yellow gas and aura reading on purple gas. very fast reload, instant downs, longer hindered ability, stronger hindered ability, bigger area for hindered ability.
Oni with all add-ons would be strong. 3x as much blood drop, less penalty for doing people in his power, longer duration, fast activation time on everything. Aura reading all over the map.
nurse, billy and myers would be hurt the most. Pyramid head would notice the least difference in the gameplay.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2631747#Comment_2631747
^ This sums it up pretty well.
Very high risk and skill requirement for a mediocre payoff even if you do pull it off perfectly with his possessed chains.
I also think survivors have too much control over his chain hunt. You're basically required to run the Franklins/Hoarders build if you even want to get a chain hunt off. Without running both those perks you're realistically lucky if you even see one hunt happen all game if that. We shouldn't need perks like that to make his power function as intended.
I really like the high skill requirement killers, the payoff just isn't there. For how high his skill requirement is they could realistically buff him a lot without hurting lower tier players as those players aren't able to play him properly anyway to take advantage of it.
Pinhead not breaking his own chains and having the chains slowly break from object collision rather than instantly would help a lot. In regards to chain hunt, not seeing the box aura until the hunt starts would be what I'd recommend. However seeing as they even nerfed his Irididescent Lament Configuration I don't see that happening. The box typically having a set spawn near the survivors probably isn't a good idea either, maybe more rng on that.
tell that to the dude that balances off kill rates.
I don't think they intended Pinhead to getting 10 chainhunts per match and franklin demise+Hoarder makes that easily possible.
At the same time, Its far too easy for survivor to disable chain hunt. you activate it, the box respawns in like 10 seconds and the aura of the box gets survivors to run to it like flies. Survivors really need to use their brain and hold the box until pinhead picks up a survivor before solving it.
I think a good change to chain hunt would be that iri should be base-kit and box should not have aura reading by default for survivor. In exchange for killer side, Franklin and Hoarder should not affect the box. The iri add-on could be reworked to give killer a 24 meter aura for searching the box.
The anti-loop? Its everything i said since day 1 about his power
-Breaking chains takes too little time
-Pinhead breaking chains hurts his own power
-Objecting breaking his chains hurt his power
They're more interesting in just slashing all the killer good add-ons so pinhead mostly doomed after his changes go live which we know they will.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2631681#Comment_2631681
"Don't you see your contradiction? your saying that 4 good solos is vastly advantageous, yet your also tallying up your games and saying that like 90% of your games are you facing swf assuming your high MMR killer. doesn't that say something about solo survivor for how getting high MMR with solo survivor is not exactly easy?"
No, they are not mutually exclusive. In other words, 4 good solos can be vastly advantageous as we both said, as while as simultaneously not being able to reach the same mmr as swf. You can have both those things be true without being contradictory. Even when solo's reach "high mmr" they still are not higher than the swf, hence primarily getting them at top mmr. So solo's aren't necessarily unable to get to high mmr which is what you're referencing but more the results I'm mentioning are a representation of simply not being as high as swf. It's also easier to raise mmr on killer than it is survivor with their new system even if you didn't necessarily "win". We could also make the argument that the type of player pushing to high mmr is also generally speaking much more likely to want to swf as well hence less solo's in general from mindset.
"Few solo players can play as well as swf teams. My reason for solo being still advantageous over solo is poor killer balance and favorable map design, so much so that you can 1vs1 the killer if your a skilled at looping if the killer power is weak and the map heavily favors you. Too many safe loops that behave like god pallets for most killers."
I agree with this.
"I would change that to games are way more challenging for killer to win since SBMM for high MMR. they ain't getting any easier with negative killer changes every patch, not helping. "
I don't know if I'd use the word challenging per say as much as "unwinnable" probably. I'm obviously being a tad hyperbolic here but I think we, as well as most anyone with a large amount of hours on both sides would agree that there are matches in DBD with its current balance that are literally unwinnable for the killer. Pretty sure I've even seen most the popular streamers with heavy hours all agree to this at some point as well.
I don't mind challenging matches. What I do mind is losing matches that there was literally no way to win even if played perfectly. Now we can say these matches are rare, and they were, in the old matchmaking. However, SBMM has exacerbated this. You have these games much more often now once you're trying to push into top mmr with "nonviable" killers. This is the conundrum of SBMM as it is treating the game as competitive when it's not. The game is not balanced around this.
I also agree about weird nerfs to killers/perks/addons that are already unviable in the first place. Doesn't make much since. This isn't anything new though.
" In other words, 4 good solos can be vastly advantageous as we both said, as while as simultaneously not being able to reach the same mmr as swf. You can have both those things be true without being contradictory."
ahh but that is issue. You see, it is not reflective in stats and results. The average survivor is still dying too much. Even if we look at our survivor games, I am looking at killer players and they're like getting 3 hooks in 5 gens. Many of killer players are actually really good too from my interaction with them in a chase. Obviously, we know that the game for our survivor games is massively one sided as we play it, but dev do not. Most of the kills that killers are getting are in EGC when gates are 99% and its from survivors trying to unhook teammates when a killer is literally standing still at a hook. Sometimes they're successful, other times they mess it up. I hate to use term but you know the killer getting kills by facecamping hooks in end game.
I don't mind challenging matches either, Its lack of input in outcome of the match that can be unfun for killer. The lack of input is produced from manufacture unviable killer powers that dev keep purposely balancing against the killer towards survivor's fun.
Unwinnable games are product of poorly balanced killer powers. Losing should still be fun, but its not. Its just aggravating. Losing with old deathslinger was at least fun. now it is just painful and it makes you not want to play diverse set of killers. Negative killer changes like reduce killer diversity and incentive playing like same killer over and over. I am like only confident now a days in winning with Nurse/Blight and Bubba. I don't think that is how it is suppose to be but its like that for now.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2630249#Comment_2630249
Simply shrinking the gyms would still allow all the same potential as before at the high level, just stops the ability to wait at certain spots and be safe by reacting. For example you wait at the corner of the gym and you can make to the window/pallet on reaction making no chance of a mindgame.
Shrinking them gives the killer more opportunities to be tricky or mindgame and stopping that wait here and be safe etc. Obviously at the low level it wont matter, if seen them camp pallets like this even with enough distance to make the window lol
long-wall-short-wall pallet is another loop they need look into. its pretty dumb that you can avoid any mindgames by just dropping pallet, than camp is the pallet and slide on reaction even if the killer has like bloodlust 3. Pretty much all long-wall safe pallets that turn into god pallets at high-level needs looking into.
I don't have problem with shack window, you can mindgame if you go counter-clock wise. the big issue is the pallet. they should put breakable wall to left side of the pallet or something. Jungle gyms definitely need reduction in wall length similar to Jungle gym of Gideon meat plant.
These loops wouldn't be as bad if every killer had anti-loop, but they keep nerfing 110% m/s and 115% m/s killer anti-loop which is problematic and many of killer's anti-loop are poorly balanced. aside from holding W which is #1 problem for killer, This is #2 biggest problem in the game.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2631484#Comment_2631484
I think the 2 modes would be the better route for solving the issue given the options available. That said, I generally agree with most everything else you said. People act like swf is the only issue, but even 4 good solos is vastly in the advantage to win matches against an equally good killer, I don't even think it's close. What makes solo queue weaker is the rng of if you get those good teammates, something that used to be an issue but not so much after SBMM. I've been tallying swf groups from my games and at high mmr it's 3 or 4 man groups greater than 50% of the games with 40% being at least a 2 man and solos or 2, 2 man groups. Less than 10% of the games are actually solo's...
For a game that is not even remotely balanced around swf that is a ridiculous number and one of the many reasons people detest SBMM at high mmr. We may see lower swf rates when we average all ranks, but they pile up at the high ranks from being boosted by swf. Games are way less fun since SBMM.
Don't you see your contradiction? your saying that 4 good solos is vastly advantageous, yet your also tallying up your games and saying that like 90% of your games are you facing swf assuming your high MMR killer. doesn't that say something about solo survivor for how getting high MMR with solo survivor is not exactly easy? Few solo players can play as well as swf teams. My reason for solo being still advantageous over solo is poor killer balance and favorable map design, so much so that you can 1vs1 the killer if your a skilled at looping if the killer power is weak and the map heavily favors you. Too many safe loops that behave like god pallets for most killers.
"Games are way less fun since SBMM."
I would change that to games are way more challenging for killer to win since SBMM for high MMR. they ain't getting any easier with negative killer changes every patch, not helping.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2631252#Comment_2631252
"Before swf people used to lobby hop to play with their friends. That would simply happen again."
I really don't think that happened that often to where it was actually much of an issue. Even if they do, I don't think that really matters much.
"And nobody would willingly play solo ranked where they would go against sweatlords who think they're at the DbD Olympics."
They absolutely would. This is literally how any competitive mode in any game works. People actively go in with sweat to increase their rank for ranked rewards. I think you also underestimate what people would play if it gave extra blood points. "Sweat" also probably isn't even the best word we should use here either seeing as you wouldn't have swf in ranked anyway. Without having SWF the sweatiest you could get in ranked isn't really that sweaty honestly. Especially seeing as then we could actually properly balance high mmr because of this.
"All survivors, solos and swf, would go unranked. All killers would go ranked. Nobody gets lobbies. The change gets reverted faster than the blinding the killer during pick up patch."
As mentioned before I think this is underestimating the competitive nature of players as well as the level of incentive in ranked rewards/queue time bonus blood point rewards.
I mean the game does not need two games modes though. I personally playing killer do not really mind playing against swf or facing strong survivor players. what is upsetting is not being able to win or show any skill expression with said killer when playing vs strong survivor's from negative killer changes/killer changes related to poor survivor gameplay.
Solo survivor is not that weak either. Assuming equal skill among killer and survivor player, survivors are still largely favored to win even as solo. The only real pitfall in solo is lack of information and coordination. SWF are better able to optimize saves, better optimized to bodyblock and utilze team-oriented items/perks such as Flashlights. Their general efficiency on generator is also a lot better. If solo just had global bond, I think solo would be as strong as SWF. I do not see why it would not be. they would be able to know what survivor is getting chased, what pallets are being broken, which survivor is working on what generator, and whose going for hook saves.
I'd say there would still be some gaps for example, a large reason why some killer users think Trapper is worst killer in DBD is because SWF can call out his trap placements rendering his ability ineffective. This problematic issue for many killers where having coordination about their ability suddenly make them a lot worse. It is difficult problem to solve because for example, if you allowed survivors to point at the killer during special interactions such placing a trap where killer aura is revealed for 1 second, you would need find a way to rebalance trapper as his ability would lose a lot of power. This isn't even talking about all killers that either had or still have secondary objectives such as Pinhead box, Pig's reverse traps, Wraith, pre-weakened freddy, so on who have high killrates because these killers require coordination to defeat where solo lacks coordination and SWF has plenty of it.
on side note, If solo is like a little favored to win vs killers if playing well|, swf is very favored to win. I mean just look otz's experiment. He had 86% escape rate when playing 4 man swf with no perks with strong items. Some people said that otz wasn't at the top of his game but like average escape rate is like 47%, so he is almost 40% above average. If only he did experiment using perks with no items, we would be able to figure out how often does average 4 man SWF team win. I bet its around 65%.
I am not so sure that killers would enjoy playing auto-lose matches vs otz level swfs where their chances to win are like less than 15%. Not with current killer balance. This is why improving solo to the level of SWF is ultimate very scary. A lot of killers changes would really need to be reverted and many of them would need major improvements for such gamemode.