Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@RaSavage42 said:
It does sound good on paper but general balancing for Maps are what's needed
Why would the Map care about what Killer is playing on it
because stronger killer can handle strong loop rng while weaker killer get auto-lose for having strong map rng.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/350855/beast-of-prey-discussion
BoP would be worth a perk slot if you just turned off the killer's red stain forever and always as long as you have that perk. Now the survivor has to have LoS on you to decide how to play.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3231381#Comment_3231381
The top 10% of players can loop for minutes and it breaks the game when they loop well. Good players listen through barriers and really dont even need the light a lot of time in loops as they can tell killer movement by sound.
your talking about another advance looping trick in regards to TR that I think is better worth skipping. to be honest, I dislike the direction of old dbd took towards weakening looping which was to weaken window looping(bloodlust) but keep pallet looping strong. I kinda wish it went in the other direction where it kept window looping very rewarding but weakened pallet looping & doing generators quickly. I understand why it went in that direction, I just wish it went in the other direction because I think that too many killer power degrade window looping to being ineffective but get destroyed by pre-drop pallet gameplay and shift-w.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3231633#Comment_3231633
Actually 5% is above average. Don't forget there are 113 survivor perks and each survivor only carries 4 of them, so on average a given perk only gets used 3.5% of the time. Only the very, very most popular perks get used 15-20% of the time or more.
sure but i think the perk is currently too weak at discouraging camping. i have had people use this perk against me. the perk is suppose to punish me for camping but instead, it encourages me to camp more because two people are around the hook. Its like more detrimental for the survivor to use this perk then it is for survivor to ignore hook and do gens(which is far superior tactic to countering camping).
I think the perk effect was fine in ptb, but i think it needed a max-limit on how many times it could extend the hook timer. an endless amount can create stalemates. reducing it to 1 use is way too severe of a nerf.
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@dugman said:
Reassurance is seeing play, it's at about 5% usage on Nightlight which puts it at about #20 on the most used perks list (top 18 percentile).
5% is too low. they should buff duration to 60 seconds and give it 10 meter activation range. I would what pick-rate of that perk would go? I recon 15-20%.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3231404#Comment_3231404
Are there ways to buff solo to SWF levels without affecting the average escape rate? Because BHVR is looking to maintain a specific range of escape rates, so if solo q is buffed, other changes would need to be made to bring the escape rate back down. And you might have noticed these forums are filled to the brim with suggestions on how to buff survivors, but very little explanations on how killers should be buffed, and survivors as a whole should be nerfed, to compensate for these solo q buffs.
And BHVR could just implement anti lobby dodging tactics, like random matchmaking delays. Or the game can try to purposely avoid matching players that have already played together in the past 30 days, so lobby dodging won't be as effective repeatedly.
its going to buff survivor by survivor playing a lot better. the changes that would bring escape rate down would be buffing specific killer power that under perform. for example billy could have his old add-on back that made him a lot stronger at loops with curving though how a killer improves will vary from killer to killer.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230845#Comment_3230845
We'll just have to agree to disagree on how much losing the red stain helps in chases.
i think red stain is the type of mechanic where 90% of survivor do not use it so it does nothing, but the better you are at looping for survivor, the more relevant this mechanic becomes. I would say looping a killer that does not hide their red stain is exponential easier to loop compare to one that hides their red stain in key points on a loop. it makes you guess a lot more as survivor over just know ahead of time the expected outcome.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230584#Comment_3230584
I actually only rarely lose the mindgame you're talking about at shack, it's pretty reliable. Also if someone does seem to be up on it you can double-fake it by showing the red glow, backing up slightly and doing a 180, then backing up into the doorway. A survivor who was watching for the mindgame fake will possibly think you went back to the window and still be standing in the middle of the shack when you back in, giving you a hit or pallet drop in that case.
its reliable because most of the survivor player-base is not top % looping. Red glow is something that high-level survivor use to remove mindgames from loops. Red glow never helps you as killer. it just helps the survivor loop you longer. Its just that most of the survivor do not know how to use red glow to their advantage. You can't mindgame good survivors that understand the depth in perception of red glow. that whole diagram i am showing at shack window has no mindgames vs strong loopers. You can never physically hit them. The best your getting is early dropped pallet. It has no mindgames. Anything that your trying in term of showing you red glow is not going to work against me or any strong looper.
beast of prey is suppose to be a perk that removes red glow. removing red glow really changes the mindgame potential for the killer. Its way harder to loop a killer that minimizes the information at loops and all of this gameplay is really subtle. this why its hard to know the difference between a strong looper and weak looper.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230652#Comment_3230652
I don't like saying this, because this is a discussion and discussions need different points of view, but if you say 2.3.0 did nothing but harm Solos and did nothing to SWFs, you are wrong. You are factually incorrect.
First off, yes, solos will always get hurt hardest by any survivor nerf. That's just a fact. But to say it did nothing but harm solos? Increasing a heal from 12 to 16 seconds is huge, especially when Self-Care was meta back then despite being 50% as it was for years until the recent nerf. With it going from 24 to 32, the perk was widely considered awful. Why am I restating what you said? Because now survivors will have to group up to heal unless they brought a medkit. That fact alone is a big deal since it makes healing harder, even for swfs. The only time those happen is during unhook scenarios where a team prepares to go for a hook dive or something.
Did upping a heal from 6 to 8 mean much? Well, the pool of collective time spent went from 18 to 24, which is a 6-second difference, which is pretty nice. So yes, those seconds do add up and are meaningful.
Second, medkits... weren't rare. Or hard to get. A medkit is literally one of the cheapest items in the blood web. And I'm seriously questioning just what you're spending your BP on if you don't have plenty of medkits. I have almost 100 Brown Medkits alone on a single character, and I don't even play surv that much (because I play almost exclusively solo). CoH is just a perk that enables a survivor to have a fast, reliable source of healing at all times with minimal counterplay. And no, totems are not hard to find. If they were, you could run Small Game/Detective's Hunch until you learn the spawns.
Third, let's say you're right. The gap is bridged.... it's still problematic and is disproportionately affecting the lower-tier killers while just being an annoyance to higher tiers such as Nurse/Blight. That is a problem because the gap between the weakest and strongest killer is the size of the grand canyon. It's okay for some killers to be stronger than others; it's not okay for some to border on unplayable in the current state of the game if both sides are playing well.
that is because high-tier killer have a way degrade health-states so that hold-w is not as powerful against them. there are multiple ways to degrade health-states. In the case of nurse and blight, it's in-chase mobility. there is also instant down, range attacks and lower coodown(reducing self-stun) & less sprint burst per health-state.
from total time wasted, the biggest part of healing is not actual time of healing. its the time spent finding survivors to heal you. this is in part why med-kit and COH are strong because you can heal on demand. you do not need find another person to heal you so you save a ton of time from this element. See sloppy butcher for example only increases healing time from 16->20 which is 4 second difference but what makes sloppy butcher strong is not extra time spent healing, its additional time that the survivor could get interrupted from being healed.
for example, if you injure a survivor, and they spent 25 seconds to find a teammate that now begins healing them, that is 45 second time waste for individual survivor that is being healed. survivor are very vulnerable when it comes to being interrupted by actions. 20 seconds spent to heal another survivor is long time for the killer to have a chance to potentially remove your progress towards healing. being healed at 95% is same as being healed at 0%. you only get a reward for healing once you reach 100% healing.
this is why healing disproportionately affects soloq over swf because swf can easily find each other and group heal which minimizes the chances that killer interrupts the survivors from healing. SWF will not spent 25 seconds finding a teammate, they will directly go that teammate in less then 10 seconds in the most efficient routing possible. interrupting 8 second heals is really difficult compare to interrupting 16 second heals. If you ever equipped sloppy against a swf, you will almost feel like the perk does absolutely nothing. you will be really shocked for how fast healing is when it is done in a group.
vs soloq on other hand, sloppy is really strong as a perk due to how much more time consuming it is to find a teammate to heal you. a killer could go on a chase, down you, hook you, you get unhooked, hook another person and you still might not be healed by the time 2nd person is hooked. Killed will often refer to this as snowballing injured pressure. this type of play-style allows you to chain-hooks back to back where the survivor is never getting a chance to heal which reduces the killer chase time by a lot because they do not need hit a survivor 2 times in a row.
stealth killer pray on the above gameplay more then other killers because their objective is to use healing and generator like distraction. it is sort of like death spiral trap where you keep trying to heal, but the more you try to heal, the more the killer keeps injuring you. It makes healing become more like endless secondary objective where you eventually accept being injured, but by accepting to be injured, your opening up the window of a stealth killer like wraith to just get the first hit that instant downs you. that is whole principal behind hit & run. its using undetectable as form of anti-loop because.... well you cannot loop if you can't get to a window/pallet to begin looping.
Strong anti-loop killer have no need for this gameplay. they just brute force every loop and they brute force health-states. stealth killer on the other hand really suck at brute forcing loops because their power is not within chase, its before chase occurs. their anti-loop happens before chase begins. not during the chase itself.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3229822#Comment_3229822
I reject this line of thinking. Something being fine in low mmr but game breaking in high mmr is a problem. Inexperienced/low MMR players will eventually become more seasoned and improve.
The only reason Legion can get by with hit and run is because they can not only injure easily, but they also inflict Deep Wound, which will slow down your healing. Of course, if you can still power through gens while keeping the heals up, even Legion will struggle.
But here's my problem with this. Patch 2.3.0, heal times were increased from 12 seconds to 16 seconds. The stated reason for this change was to give the killer a form of slowdown through gameplay without touching gen times. This change enabled the ability to spread injuries to build pressure; either they risk staying injured trying to do gens, or get off and spend a long time healing.
patch 2.3.0 was one of those changes that affected soloq a lot and did not affect swf at all. Why? A swf can easily regroup and heal everyone in 8 seconds. 2 people healing same person is 8 second heal, so in just 24 seconds, you can heal 3 health-states. Did adding 4 seconds do anything to affect swf's ability to heal? I mean difference between the patch was 6->8 seconds.
For soloq on other hand, soloq already has huge problems in term of coordination when it comes to healing. this especially true at low mmr-middle mmr where there is just no team coercion like at all. Its not uncommon for the killer to tunnel you and for you to remain injured near enough entire game. that is why self-care was used a lot when healing 24 seconds. It removes the teamplay required to find two people to heal you. it had 95% pick-rate or something stupid. When self-care got nerfed, less people started using self-care because they realized that healing for 32 seconds was not practical because you would not be doing any generators while your teammate is in chase and if you self-care outside of a teammate being in chase, you would likely get chased as injured which would make you unable to complete the heal.
In essence, your team is wasting pallets while your doing no generator progression from self-caring. No heal meta was more or less forced because survivor did not get many bloodpoints to refund their items if they died and for long time, there was no good healing perk for its replacement. So what survivors did is run Iron will and Spine chill. Iron will removed the survivor noises reducing risk of being injured while spine chill countered stealth killers and allowed to position yourself better to avoid taking opening hits. Survivor did keep their items and add-on if they escaped, but eventually, they removed the ability for survivors to keep their add-on when escaping and keeping of add-on was moved to Ace In The Hole perk. In order for survivors to keep even earnings on their bloodpoint to use med-kits, they had to run a perk called we're gonna live forever and prove thyself. With these two perks, you could earn enough BP to continuously use a med-kit.
After that, circle of healing was eventually released. this perk essentially bridges soloq healing problems and makes soloq as efficient as SWF in term of healing. COH is like old self-care. Strangely,enough, its not used as much as self-care because old self-care had such high play-rate because it was super easy to use. with COH, you need to know where dull totems spawn and the healing is not global like old self-care.
fast-forward into modern age dbd, due to 33% reduction in bloodpoints, survivors received default version of BBQ because the bloodpoints are worth more comparatively to before. So now survivor can just spam med-kits almost every game similar to how killer used to spam add-on every game by equipping BP perk to maintain their add-on.
Wraith is described on the official DBD website as a hit-and-run specialist, and his playstyle is broken. It doesn't work. Sadako is another hit-and-run killer, and there's a literal #buffSadako movement.
Wraith hit & run never worked at base-kit. Healing was always too fast for SWF and too slow in soloq because of information problems. A popular stream popularized this build on wraith called hit & run, It consistent of these 3 perks - Sloppy butcher, Thanotophobia and Nurse calling. The idea was simple, Sloppy butcher slowdown healing, Thanotophobia stacked healing debuffs allowing to acquire tier 5 mangled effect and Nurse calling gave you information to interrupt survivors ability to heal. In essence, you could hit people, leave them, hit another person, leave them and then locate the injured survivor using nurse calling. Stealth killer need lethality to captialize on their stealth and these anti-heal perks gave them pseudo instant down. These perk are low impact-bad now because BVHR nerfed strategy to the ground and stealth killer with it.
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3-4k win for killer, 0,1, 2 lose for killer.
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@WeakestNurseMain said:
So the entire point behind docking killers points if they camp and adding reassurance is to make killers camp less, but why is camping optimal for almost every single killer?
You downed a survivor and hooked them in your 3 gen? Camp.
You're playing Hag/Trapper and you hook someone in a building? Camp.
You're playing Trickster/Bubba? Well, here's some fun trivia: you're power is the best power for camping, and that's pretty much all you can against good survivors.
You're playing any killer that isn't Nurse/Blight with the strongest addons and perks? Well if you want to win at high mmr, better pitch that tent early. With 3k hours into this game, I still can't win without camping, there's pretty much no "gitting gud" from here, I know every map and tile in and out, I know how to loop it and how to chase it as every killer, but put simply there is just no time for me to finish 12 chases with most killers. At this point I really just want BHVR to give survivors a tool so broken that they're forced to fix killer gameplay.
you just figured out the problem with killer gameplay.
the solution? Shrug.
Make killer stronger. Easier said then done.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230489#Comment_3230489
Actually I'm not all that convinced that removing the red glow does much in a chase. In fact there are times when having the red glow makes mindgames easier, not harder, such as intentionally showing a bit of your glow around a corner then backtracking the other way at a loop. At best it's a very slight benefit. I don't even think a perk that made you literally Undetectable in all chases would be very good honestly.
in fact there are times when having the red glow makes mindgames easier, not harder, such as intentionally showing a bit of your glow around a corner then backtracking the other way at a loop.
I completely disagree. red glow is another really.. really hide-level aspect for survivor looping. its like less 1% of the player-base knows how to utilize it properly so much so that I am really hesitated to explain it simply because I am afraid that survivor will start using this against the killer because once you understand how to use red glow. a lot of loops have very little mindgame for m1 killers. in fact I would go as far to say that red glow removes all mindgames from the chase.
I am really bad drawing so I am going to use a google image of shack and then try explain how you can use red glow to remove mindgames in loops. Perhaps one of the most famous loops in dbd is none other than shack. what red glow allows you to do as survivor is visualize the depth and perception of the killer position in a loop without physically requiring direct line of the killer. here's image to showcase what I mean by this.
there are specific positions(vantage points) where survivor can stand at and if you look at the floor, you can see red glow shadow going deeper and deeper which tells you where the killer is standing across the wall. so if you ever wondered, how does this survivor always know when to vault the shack window across that doorway. Why is he is not falling for any of your mindgames? If you try to show your red glow to me and just back track along this wall, I am just looking at red glow on floor and see that the red glow is moving -> away from doorway so I am not going to vault window. Likewise, if you walk forward into doorway, I will already be in the position where i am vaulting the window as you walk through doorway. I am turning your mindgame into reaction in which i can perfectly do the correct play every single time.
There is plenty of these little places where you can deduce the killer's positioning the loop and through process of elimination, you can know where the killer is in a loop precisely which removes a lot of mindgames at loops. I think red glow is really high-level mechanic, so I do not expect many survivors or killer for that matter to understand it. more experienced killer manipulate and hide red glow in key positions to give the opportunity for the survivor to make a mistake at the loop. With this perk, if it was activate all the time, it would be continuous red glow mindgame through out entire loop. complicated mechanic to explain.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230172#Comment_3230172
Especially at bleeding edge ELO in DbD. Bad comms vs good comms make or break survivors at the competitive level against that level of killer player (to use an extreme example). Players often frame the discussion around the assumption of absolute average killer play vs good survivors with added comms. Rarely does the discussion take into account high level killer play vs average/good survivors, or elite vs elite on both sides. You have to be able to manage hook states, spacing, and chase location against a great killer player with a stacked loadout. And it's just not good game design in my opinion to say "Well, since you're solo, you're going to be short 3 or 4 perks just to have any sort of information. Sucks to suck."
how you use information as survivor is huge for survivor when your playing against a strong killer player. I do not think the game needs voice coms because of language barrier. but I think global aura reading on teammate is sufficient to bridge the gap between soloq and swf. its so easy to implement. the longer part is reworking perks there were once based off information to do something less. a lot of aura-type perk have secondary effect. For example blood pact has haste effect. Better together has aura reading on the killer. Emphatic connection has healing speed. kindred has wallhacks on the killer. Maybe bond/empathy and aftercare could be rework into giving a small amount of wall-hack when the killer begins a chase for like 3-4 seconds. for example empathy would grant aura reading on the killer when the killer chases an injured survivor, bond would grant aura reading when two people are in the chase at the same time and aftercare grants aura reading when a survivor affected by aftercare starts a chase with the killer for first 3-4 seconds.
All those aura perk could just be reworked to be minor killer wall-hack perks. that trigger in specific situations. Hopefully one day, dbd does bridge soloq and swf gap at higher-level(15% difference problem).
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@dugman said:
Continuing a series of threads on the least picked perks according to Nightlight, next up is Huntress’ perk Beast of Prey (0.81% usage)
Beast of Prey - Grants the Undetectable status effect after gaining Bloodlust Tier I. The status effect is removed once you lose Bloodlust. Gain 30/40/50% more Bloodpoints for actions in the Hunter Category. Undetectable hides the Killer's aura, Terror Radius, and Red Stain.
So there are two distinct parts to this perk, the Undetectability and the bloodpoint bonus. Looking at them one at a time:
- Undetectability and stealth in general is a great effect, but mostly only between chases. If you’re already chasing a survivor then stealth is much, much less useful because they already know you’re there and can see you chasing them. Most of the value from Undetectability effects typically come from reducing the distance between you and your target before they start running away which can translate to a lot of saved time landing hits. So Beast of Prey’s Undetectability is unfortunately of pretty minimal use at best, not only does it only trigger during a chase when you get the least benefit from it but it doesn’t even work for most of the chase, only triggering 10 seconds in once Bloodlust turns on. That makes it extremely difficult to get value out of it. (And I love stealth abilities and have tried to get value out of this and it just feels like it never does much of anything for you.)
- The other aspect is the bloodpoint bonus. Ironically I’ve seen more posts from people saying they use this perk for that bloodpoint bonus than for the Undetectability. Personally I’m not a fan of perks having bloodpoint bonuses, I think it’s better design to have their effects actually impact the match itself than to give extra currency for between matches, and that thinking is also in line with why for instance BBQ and Chili lost its bloodpoint bonus in the rework. It feels like this bloodpoint bonus on Beast of Prey, then, is just a leftover relic mechanic that maybe should be replaced by something more substantial to the match. Regardless, though, it’s really supposed to be secondary anyway, but it probably is worth up to a few thousand bloodpoints per match on average (just a guess, assuming you get like 6-7k in the Hunter category baseline.)
All in all this perk really seems like it could use a buff and revamp. Stealth during chases is just not a good effect. Some possibilities that kind of keep the theme might be
- Have the perk speed up how fast Bloodlust triggers, maybe for instance speeding up Bloodlust triggers by 2-4 seconds per level. We currently have no perks that actually change Bloodlust itself, so this is an as yet unused design space for perks.
- Along similar lines it could increase the movement speed bonus of Bloodlust by, say, 3-5% per level. Even at those levels it would make getting to Bloodlust 2 or 3 quite scary!
- If you want to keep Undetectability on this perk, then allow it to linger for, say, 10-20 seconds after the chase ends. That would at least allow an easier opportunity to switch targets to someone else.
the perk is not designed to be stealth perk. its designed to be a perk to remove your red light as killer. supposedly this makes it harder for survivors to track you in the loop. before the perk gave you undetectable, it used to only hide your red light.
Red light is another mechanic where experienced survivors can use to great degree with loop the killer while less experienced survivors do not understand how to use it to their advantage. Killer really should not have red glow mechanic because it grants the survivor wall-hacks against the killer and reduces mindgame potential at high-wall loops. Looping a killer with no red light would be a lot harder then what it currently is. red light is another topic altogether for another thread.
This is designed to be chase perk that enhances the killer chase but bloodlust 1 condition makes the perk not worth using. I think just removing bloodlust 1 condition would make the perk have more usage. it would be strong perk for detaching chases and the mindgame potential would be a lot greater especially if it is paired with the perk called I'm all ears.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230238#Comment_3230238
Yes locker standoffs are favorable for killer, but you created a high risk high reward scenario for the two of you to have a standoff. literally any time wasted in this is a net positive for you, and the best part is it doesn't even actually require the perk if you're convinced you'll go down anyway. Many plays are done specifically to waste as much time as possible, not to escape for free. You CAN win the standoff, and your chances aren't terribly low, but you also win more every second the killer is dancing in front of the locker and up to 3 gens are churning.
Your comments about how locker saves are inefficient is completely ignorant to how the perk actually gets used at high level. If one is in chase and one is making the save, and the hook gets denied, then it is FAR more efficient than just 3 people on gens. Its balancing your own efficiency with efficiency denial of your opponent, its why time is so relative in this game. You don't need 4x meme stacks if you just have two lockers side by side, or any other applications that the perk gets used. You're also then using the argument that usage of one excludes another, which is something you need to witness firsthand to experience: meaning they need to either not have dead hard to extend a chase (or not use it/use it too late/etc) or you have to get hit by a successful head on before you actually know they don't have dead hard (and even the first scenario, again, leaves room for doubt unless you see the animation.)
How does huntress throw over a jungle gym? you just tried to find some kind of flaw in my scenario without even considering the details, Jungle gyms have all high walls except for the vault window for obvious reasons. I was using a common experienced scenario to illustrate a specific frequent usage of the perk, and you'd rather look for ways to try to disprove it than even attempt to understand what it was trying to convey.
Cool im glad you don't get hit by it because you understand how far your collision goes past your view in a first person perspective of a game with a forced low FoV. That doesn't mean it would remotely be a good idea to allow one perk to completely throw off that entire spatial perception for yourself or anyone else just because you can't find value in the current perk. just don't run it then.
NO perk should be a reliable stun unless it has very specific circumstances (like DS, and even that has a token skill check for a reason.) Your argument is built around not understanding how absolutely devastating a single stun can be when done at the right time, and why they're generally limited to very telegraphed scenarios for the killer. Stuns should never force a lose/lose scenario, and I'm sorry that you refuse to understand how to use them as they are and instead demand more.
I do not agree with premise of high risk/high reward in regards the perk. Personally, If I see a survivor using head on, I would think they're trolling. that is how laughably bad head on is as a perk. I would say dead hard is closer to high risk/high reward perk. Between the 2.7 second self-stun for wiping a weapon and sprint burst, I would say dead hard is like 7-8 second stun in term of distance. that is closer to high reward.
Your comments about how locker saves are inefficient is completely ignorant to how the perk actually gets used at high level.
Nobody uses head on at high-level. Its total joke meme perk. Your idealizing the perk without playing with the perk in the real game to see how most games play out when the survivor has the perk. A perk that is closer for saving teammates is flashbang. This is far more reliable then head on locker saves that are likely to get you killed/slugged.
Jungle gym are already very safe loops. You generally want killer to break the pallet on these loops before moving to another pallet/tile. Smash hit is one of the most pointless perks because speed boost granted from stun is counter-productive to how an experienced survivor would use this tile. A survivor that is running away from strong tiles is borderline inexperienced. This is terrible example of usage of the perk and your using one of killer that punishes greeding pallet stuns.
What smash hit is designed to do is greed unsafe pallets. I am going to use badham car pallet to the right of the school past the window vault as an example. You want greed pallet stuns at these pallets because not getting the stun means that the killer can bloodlust you and keep you at the loop indefinitely until he inevitably get the hit. The problem is that killers at these pallets massively respect these pallets because getting a stun means that the survivor can potentially move to another loop that is stronger pallet then the unsafe pallet. Respecting pallets is too easy for killer such that they can entirely avoid this perk without understanding that the perk is even in play. What my change is doing is creating a mindgame where the killer needs stand further away from the pallet to avoid the stun, but the killer over-respecting the pallet means that the survivor can run an extra loop. It would create extra layer of mindgames at pallets. Currently you can respect pallets and overall not get punished for it in like 99% of cases. This is mindgame that people used to do with old dead hard for distance where they would greed pallets on purpose because they were trying to get extra loops out of the pallets by trying punish the killer for respecting pallets, but the risk associated towards the survivor not dropping the pallet was not there because of press E for safety.
I do not think any survivor player who is trying seriously win would use these exhaustion perks. I would almost go as far to say that activating these perks against the killer is the killer playing bad/new player.
@D2night said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230238#Comment_3230238
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3229694#Comment_3229694
I love how he’s trying to say that you’re “bad” and the perk itself isn’t that good at all lmfao (“you’d problem benefit more with learning how to use them before demanding more”) like we can’t just test it out for 1 game and see that it’s not a good exhaustion perk at all?? There is no situation where you can’t tell me that head on isn’t the worst exhaustion and could definitely use a slight buff. If you’re looping around a jungle gym with a locker you literally need quick and quiet and you gotta hope the killer doesnt see you jump in the locker and plenty of times the killer can easily tell because your scratch marks literally stop at the locker so you also gotta hope the killer doesn’t notice that.
Without quick and quiet you basically have to be versing a bad killer for him to not realize you jumped into the locker so it’s almost not possible. If you’re “far enough to where you can jump into the locker and wait for the killer to come” then it’s almost like you could’ve kept running and been just as fine?? Lmfao head on stun isn’t long at all so instead of wasting time sitting in a locker for 3+ seconds and letting the killer catch up to you, only for you to have about 2 seconds of distance now because of how short head on stun is, was pointless. You could’ve used the distance you first had to run to a pallet or a window.
“use deception” sure, but what if I need to actually JUMP into the locker? I can’t because deception takes priority. So it’s not always good. To pair deception with perks that’s require you to jump into lockers/are time gated.
if you need to pair a pair with another perk or even 2 perks for it to be good then it’s obviously not as good as you think it is.
we aren’t talking about being in a swf and hiding in a locker while a friend runs by.. anything is good in a swf. Plus that requires another person to be off of a gen and hiding in a locker. AND now that person is now exhausted so they’re out of another exhaustion for just in case the killer ends up trying to kill them instead. You can give reasons all you want but none of them will end up being good enough
The conversation boil down to. I am bad. Just use other perks. Not productive conversation.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3229688#Comment_3229688
1) you don't need Q&Q to use it in a chase, as long as you have enough distance you can fast vault into the locker and force a standoff. You can even pair it with deception and get even more crazy with it.
2) it was never intended to just be an on demand stun, which is why it has a setup time.
3) your buff suggestions would make it absurdly strong in swf.
4) learn to use the perk properly if you want to. Use it for distraction scenarios, or even saves as the killer walks by. It's not a club you just beat the killer over the head with, it has nuance for a reason.
As for smash hit, I don't think its a fantastic perk, but i absolutely understand why it works the way it does. Its actually extremely effective if you use it to mindgame killers into respecting pallets: If the killer needs to use their power to deny the pallet, you get an option for when they don't do so:
an example would be huntress. when looping her with her 110 speed, she slows down even more to throw a hachet, which is where the mindgame comes with her at pallets when going around corners, like say a jungle gym: she cant even remotely see where you are to throw if she has to charge too early, so they usually go for it late or try to force an M1 if they think you're not going to use the pallet, and charge early if they think you are. If they see you're respecting the hatchet option, they'll be more likely to go in for a m1 since you're not using the pallet early. Pallet stun in this case gets you distance, but she's huntress, so how much that distance matters is a different story. Smash hit, on the other hand, gives you massive distance, and it doesnt even need to be in a straight line. This applies to any killers who need to slow down to use their antiloop in a non-trap fashion, or even just prepare it early like wesker/demo/etc. Again, it absolutely has its case uses, they're just not as universal as some others.
Also the expanded stun range is an absolutely horrible idea, the pallet collision is already outside of the killer's perspective as it is. I've always jokingly referred to pallet stuns as dropping the pallet on the killer's toes because of how far in front of them it actually is from their view.
You're welcome to think they need buffs, but you'd probably benefit more from leaning how to use them in their current iteration before demanding more. Or just use other perks you prefer instead.
locker stand-off are favorable towards the killer. its way easier for killer to bait rushing out of a locker then it is for the survivor get the stun. I think most killer player will say that locker stand-off is just free hit/free down in like 99% of cases. I think when people talk about exhaustion perks, they do not mention head on because of how bad of exhaustion perk it is.
killer can just open lockers before picking up. in practical gameplay, a survivor standing in a locker is not time efficient on generators. you want to be on generators when your teammate are in chase. Going for saves with head on is niche and relatively easy to counter. stunning the killer mid-chase is a waste of survivor time. If anything this just put you as the tunnel target for the killer because you have one of worst exhaustion perks in the chase. Chasing head on survivor is way more simple then chasing dead hard player or sprint burst/Lithe hold-w survivor.
Abusable for Swf's? 4x vigil+4x head on is a meme build where nobody does generators and tries to stun the killer for the entire game. This is just throwing games and is a free win for the killer. SWF that is trying to win would not use these perks.
In regards smash hit, Huntress that can throw over loops making smash hit a suicidal perk. rock loops are time-waste loops for huntress and the survivor player does not need smash-hit to successfully killer's time at these loops. Kicking pallets is generally a slow action for killer and huntress generally kicks pallets that she cannot throw over. Smash hit is encouraging you to leave loops early when waiting for the killer to break the pallet would roughly get you to the next loop. I am far intimated by facing dead hard as huntress then facing smash-hit. This is a bad example.
Also the expanded stun range is an absolutely horrible idea, the pallet collision is already outside of the killer's perspective as it is. I've always jokingly referred to pallet stuns as dropping the pallet on the killer's toes because of how far in front of them it actually is from their view.
I rarely ever get hit by a pallet stun because I precisely know the hitbox of the pallet stun to avoid getting stunned. This is not my experience with pallet stuns. A lot of the time, respecting pallet as killer leads to two outcomes, the survivor not dropping the pallet and get hit around next loop or dropping the pallet and not getting the stun. its why those stun challenges in archives are often lead survivors to camp pallets to purposely tank hits then droping the pallet(waste pallets) to get stun-challenges done. Smash hit as result makes you play worse as survivor because of how unreliable pallet stunning a killer is when a killer respects pallets and understand his/her distances for lunging. When you play against legion feral frenzy you will understand these situations more clearly.
both of these perk should be reliable stuns because the sprint burst type perks are generally reliable distance gain perks when survivor player plays around them. these two perks on other hand are just not worth using. they require the killer to play poorly/make a mistake for the perk to activate.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3229585#Comment_3229585
Head on is an exhaustion perk specifically so it can't synergize with other exhaustion perks. being able to stun the killer on demand like that is a pretty big deal, especially if you could then sprint burst and get to the next map over while they recover.
head on needs big buff to be honest. it has 3 second channel time, to use it in a chase, you need to use quiet&quiet so you can do rushed action in chase and the reward is 3 second stun which is mediocre reward in term of distance for exhausts. pretty much all of its aspects needed to be buffed. there should be no activation time for using it, you should have some build-in surpression when going in lockers without needing a another perk and the stun should be 4 seconds long. a killer can easily check a locker before picking up near a locker.
Smash hit is another really bad perk whose only purpose is to counter enduring spirit fury. Its too easy for killer to respect pallets for you to get stuns. I think the perk should increase pallet stun hitbox a little bit, so its harder for killer to respect pallets when its activate as secondary effect similar to balance landing's stagger reduction effect. currently, you will naturally counter this perk as killer without really doing anything special.
both of those exhaustion perks need buffs lmo.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3229540#Comment_3229540
Stealth killers can still camp, because they avoid aura reading with undetectable.
But what you are outlining is a different issue imo.
not really. the stealth killers are some of the worst hook defending killers in the game. they're super easy to bodyblock and their major weakness is health-states. med-kits are hard counter to stealth killers. that is why stealth killer used to run anti-heal builds so that they could keep survivors injured, unfortunately one of the perks got some negative changes and sloppy butcher is not enough to keep survivors injured. there are no perks that stealth killers can reliable use to instant down to make plays with stealth. as otz states in the video, a lot of dbd gameplay trends on requiring brute-force anti-loop and stealth killer is like polar opposite of brute force anti-loop.
@Reshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3229007#Comment_3229007
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kkB7IcmMaI
A lot of killers lack the ability to keep up with good survivors, so camping them out and forcing 2nd stage or a trade is more preferable when injuries don't matter.
personally for dredge, I use stbfl on him because he has weak lethality options. Given his gameplay where he was slugging with dredge, he would had permanent 8 stacks with all the slugging he had to do. Surge in that game was doing nothing for him because all gens were completed. I am not even sure if third seal was doing anything either because it was likely a swf and blindness has zero impact for swf's. they were getting up very efficiently.
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@Xernoton said:
Overcome isn't really meant as an anti-tunnel perk, is it? I think they should just change OTR so the survivor loses collision with the killer and cannot get hit in the first place.
I think Overcome shouldn't be quite as strong as other exhaustion perks. There is no special condition in activating it other than getting hit, after all. You can fail DH, you need a window or pallet for Lithe and you need some kind of alevation for Balanced Landing, not to mention how hard it is to manage Sprint Burst perfectly. With Overcome all these things don't apply.
all exhaustion perks are meant to be anti-tunnel perks. Not really sure why overcome got a nerf where it does not work with endurance effects but I think it was because it boosted nemesis tentacle strike speed boost for his 3 hit mechanic which to this day, I still do not understand why the killer needs 3 hits to down someone with the ability but ok.
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@Seraphor said:
I like the idea of reigniting broken totems. But I don't like what Pentimento does. It's just badly designed. It disproportionately hurts solo survivors than it does SWF. This makes it yet another factor hurting solo queue, and is what contributes to the inconsistent value as a killer, those games where you get 4 stacks of Penti versus those games where you just can't seem to keep the totem up long enough to get any value out of it.
I'd much rather if it was something like a 5% speed penalty to all actions including; repairs, healing vaults, cleansing, etc. for each reignited totem.
you can just not cleanse totems and endure the effects. the killer cannot use the totem until a survivor cleanses a totem. it has similar effectiveness for solo just as it does for swf.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
I would honestly want to see this to see how it would go down
Survivor would no mither+self-care. Triple s-tier synergy perks while every other exhaustion perk besides sprint burst does not work properly.
Killers would have an overloaded hex system that i have no clue how it would work and killer would in general be too strong with too many debuffs, aura reading, yellow generators and chase perks all at once.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3229155#Comment_3229155
Your opinion is just as valid as mine so I understand your point. Some people enjoy facing Nurse and some don't; both are valid viewpoints.
I might have misunderstood but one point on which we might disagree is the timed down. In my opinion, every Killer, if MMR is matched appropriately and given sufficient time, has to be able to down every Survivor. If not, there is either an issue with MMR matching or a problem with game balance (either general or specific to the Killer or map). If not, then the game is too weighted to the Survivor side. As such, I view every chase as a timed down but my goal is simply to delay the chase long enough that the Killer either chooses another target or my teammates get enough time to work on gens that we can escape.
As such, I view every chase as a timed down where I try to waste as much of the Killer's time as possible. I don't think I should be able to consistently evade the Killer unless there's a huge skill mismatch (which happens), the map is skewed, or the Killer is one BHVR needs to buff.
I don't know if that viewpoint could affect our difference in enjoying going against Nurse but I thought I'd throw that out there.
Oh i completely agree with that idea. every chase is timed down, but other killers that commit to long chases end up losing because your chaining loops in smart manner. a bad chase for like other killers is like 1:30-2 minutes which is game-losing. for nurse, 60 seconds is like a bad chase for veteran nurse. there is low chase variance in chases which is why she is strong killer when the player is good at her. I like when gameplay is more explosive where the killer is consistently strong chase but the survivor has opportunity at every turn to make a good play. nurse is too monotone for my tastes.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3229166#Comment_3229166
Which gets to what I said in my PS about why I don’t like visible lobbies in the first place. So a question is would the benefit solo survivors get outweigh maybe some more people lobby dodging?
personally i think the game should move more in the direction of needing teamwork to defeat killers and knowing your teammate perks is good direction for encouraging smart perk synergy. killer's should be challenging to escape from and matches should be intense and close. Its just that historically, dbd has been marketed more as a game where you can 1vs1 the killer with whatever survivor perks. Survivor generally just escape through their own individual gameplay merit so many matches in my experience with survivor are usually just... I don't know, ######### shows where your usually just stomping the killer really hard.
I assume its reverse for players at middle and lower MMR's where they end up getting stomped by killers repetitively instead leading to high-kill rate.
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@dugman said:
I was just thinking about how one of the benefits of being in a swf is knowing what perks your friends are running. So maybe one way to help solo survivors out would be to show the icons of the perks all the survivors are using in the lobby to the survivor side (not the killer side obviously). That a solo survivor has more of an opportunity to switch up their loadout a bit if they want based on the other perks they see.
(P.S. I’m not really a fan of the visible lobby to be honest, I’d just as soon the game simply pair people up silently in the background who hit Read and then just send them all to a match right away once the group is formed. It would cut out a lot of pointless delays and lobby dodging which can much up matchmaking a bit. But since we’re kind of stuck with a visible lobby before the match we may as well maybe take advantage of it to give solo survivors a small boost.)
here's a problem. what if you see your teammate running a troll perk. people would lobby dodge because they see their teammate running joke-level perks.
for example, if you see your teammate is running wake up+sole survivor+self-care+smash hit. would you play with that player who is not running the perceived perks that you believe they should run?
What happens if you see your teammate is running no mither? people would just lobby dodge you. If you give the option for the player hide a specific perk, then it is peaking interests that your running a perk that has perceived bad reputation.
For example, suppose the perk loadout is kindred, windows of opportunity, dead hard and 4th perk is blanked out. the 4th perk is self-care but your not showing self-care. people might stereotype the blank perk into a bad perk.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3228883#Comment_3228883
Yes but that's true for every Killer. For example, I find Ghostface, who is a weak Killer, to be annoying since my escaping now depends on whether my teammates rotate their camera for observational awareness. That's not a reason to nerf Ghostface. If anything, Ghostface still needs buffs.
Nurse, who is a strong Killer, does have counterplay and the counterplay is far more intricate than Ghostface. That intricacy is part of why I like facing Nurse. My games are exciting. Neither of our feelings are reason to nerf or not nerf Nurse.
What is reason is stuff like the old recharge add-ons speeding up blink speed. That was unintended and created an issue. I'm not sure what I think about the whole blink attacks should be special attacks but there is definitely an argument there.
Nurse changes the game though which is what I like and probably what many people who complain about Nurse don't like. But there is counterplay and if the stats behind Nurse do show an issue I'm sure she will get changed eventually.
most of her counter-play revolves around mindgaming her long-range blinks. I think I just dislike playing against a killer then can m1 lunge attack out of the an ability and blink through walls emulating the vault through pallets that legion has in feral frenzy. I also dislike how strong nurses can zone by just existing. All the maps virtually have a dead-end so eventually you get into positions that even if your successful at dodging the 2-3 blinks. you will inevitably get hit by being the corner of the map. Its hard to enjoy going against a killer where each chase is like a timed down.
The only difference is going down 30 seconds vs going down in 60 seconds. I do not like playing against strong nurses because they're not interactive in the chase. I rather play against old deathslinger or old Spirit where there is a lot of mindgames that you can predict correctly over a killer where mindgames exist in some places but leads to inevitable downs in others. I like facing strong chasing killers, just not nurse-type strong.
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@dugman said:
Continuing a series of threads on the least used perks according to Nightlight, next up is Jill’s perk Counterforce (0.54% usage)
Counterforce - You cleanse Totems 20% faster. After cleansing a Totem, you see the aura of the furthest Totem from you for 2/3/4 seconds and you gain an additional 20% stackable speed bonus to cleansing Totems for the remainder of the trial.
Do you love cleansing totems? Have I got a perk for you! 😄
So if you want to mess with totems there are basically two survivor perks that help, Counterforce and Small Game. Small Game is a bit more popular but that could simply be because it’s a generic perk whereas Counterforce is an unlockable on Jill so not as many people might have bothered getting it.
On the plus side Counterforce definitely sounds effective at its mission - destroying all totems. I think the reason this isn’t more popular though is destroying totems in and of itself is kind of a secondary goal compared to everything else survivors do like gen repair and hiding and running from the killer. So perks that help with those core areas are used a lot more than a perk which very specifically is used for a side objective. And if the killer happens to not be using any Hexes then Counterforce is even less useful on its own, you’d really have to pair it with a perk that gives you a bonus for cleansing like Inner Focus or Clairvoyance, etc, to get value out of destroying a bunch of dull totems.
Also the popularity of cleansing totems is meta dependent because it conflicts with survivors who like to bless them for Boons, notably Circle of Healing. I’m sure there have been a few salty aftergame chats between survivors after a loss where one had Circle of Healing but didn’t get to use it because another survivor or two went around cleansing all the totem spots. And Circle of Healing in particular is super popular, it’s hovering around the number 3 or 4 spot currently on Nightlight (about 20% usage, right below Prove Thyself).
In total, I don’t necessarily think this perk needs a buff, it’s actually probably really good in its niche use. It just so happens that its niche isn’t as popular right now as it might be if, say, Hexes were super popular and blessings were less used. Hypothetically, though, if the devs wanted to make it used a bit more, they could buff it by giving its bonuses and triggers to both cleansing and blessing totems. That would allow it to synergize with Boons a bit more.
Detective hutch+ green map is superior choice for killing totems. Counter-force and Small game are inferior choices towards killing totems.
Counter-force is too time inefficient for breaking totems because it shows aura of further totem. they need change it to the aura of closest totem. Instead, counter-force is supplementary perk that you use with detective hutch and map for extra cleansing speed efficiency.
one of the issues is that these type of perks suffer from feeling the need to be base-kit because they feel like wasted perk slot cost to use that does not feel powerful. This is most obviously seen on killer perk: Shattered hope where many killer feel like the perk should be base-kit. What I find strange is how survivor never complained about asking small game or detective hutch to be base-kit when old ruin and new ruin were meta. Nether survivor or Killer wants to give up a perk slot to counter each other's perks. They rather risk punishment of the perk being used than give up a perk slot.
At the same time, for survivors, there is no outstanding powerful hexes on killer side that make these perks worth equipping. the survivor can essentially outskill all the hexes. When hex:ruin and noed were stronger, these perks had low counter-play and near guaranteed reward for the killer equipping them so there was more reason to use these perks, but due to above problem of the perks feeling like perk tax. survivor did not use it. the perk tax problem is why you sometimes get suggestions like -What if DBD had 5 perks slots?-. It is usually referring to a player wanting to use a particular perk but feels like the other perks are to mandatory for them to use a perk they want to use.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3225058#Comment_3225058
And you seem not to realize that people would exploit the hell out of endurance stacking.
You would have no chance as killer.
BTW the post was about TUNNELING, not CAMPING.
he wants endurance stacking because it would give survivors 2 health-states instead of 1 health-state after getting tunneled off hook. currently, if the killer hits you, you only gain 1 health-state from the base-kit BT because off the record does not work when your in deep wound. Dead hard is impossible to use currently as anti-tunnel perk because of their endurance stacking change. OTR does work as anti-tunnel perk but it got nerfed from ptb to live. DS still works though. it does still allow you to escape killer grasp and continue the chase. Its just that you need to be next to a loop to use it. Not really sure what OP post is complaining about.
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head on gives distance through stun effect. just increase stun to 4 seconds.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3226614#Comment_3226614
It does, but if the myers is smart he will see the person setting up the boon and will immediately know where to go to snuff it, so it gets only about 10 seconds worth of value until set up again
logic applies to all killer. they can hear the boon and snuff it out. the point is the action of kicking the boon, you get pseudo aura reading on his location for totem being snuffed and you are very much forced to kick it as it counters the add-on.
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@Crowman said:
As someone who used to play a lot of Deathslinger and dislikes what they did with him, he's not the worse killer in the game.
You are just forced to play him as a zoner, because going for actual shots is risker.
the problem is that his zoning is not viable because he loses m/s when holding his gun and canceling his gun. The fact that going for shots is too much risk means that his gun has too much counter-play.
this is why his ADS changes needs reverts and arguably his terror radius also needs revert because 32 meter with 110% m/s is silly. by lore, he is hunter. he is suppose to be stealthy. lower TR reduces the whole hold-w before chases. 24 meters was just fine and the perk reducing it to 16 tr is smart perk synergy by the killer.
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@dugman said:
Continuing a series of threads on the least picked perks according to Nightlight, next up is The Twin’s perk Coup de Grâce (0.7% usage)
Coup de Grâce - Each time a generator is completed, Coup de Grâce grows in power. Gain a token. Consume one token to increase the distance of your next lunge attack by 70/75/80%.
Interestingly I do occasionally see a streamer or two who really like this perk. When it actually works the extra lunge distance is kind of handy to get a hit on someone you otherwise wouldn’t before they reach a pallet or vault.
The main reason I think it’s not popular is probably the reason I don’t personally use it, it’s inconsistency. It has a limited number of uses at best, and there are a lot of times when a normal lunge would work just fine but if you did one then it would use up one of these tokens and waste it. So you can end up actually choosing between losing a token for no reason or not lunging at all and maybe not getting a hit. It’s this weird trigger and token condition combination that’s kind of a turn off.
If it were up to me, I’d probably make it simply be a permanent passive +X% lunge distance boost with no restrictions for some appropriate value of X (50% maybe? Hard to say.) That would be way more reliably available and easier to work with. Even with it giving less distance than the current 80% I’d definitely rather use that, just my opinion.
this perk has potential to make every killer's chase as strong as nurse if it had no token system. barring the very exceptional super strong pallets that completely block your way, almost every pallet becomes unsafe if you have this perk where the killer can get a hit if the killer reads the survivor movements and correctly predicts the slide/the slide bait. A permanent version of the perk with no tokens really should be base-kit in my opinion.
due the fact that I think survivor would not like playing against this perk for entire match, I think the perk should be turned into a hex and be made stronger to compensate it is a hex by decreasing lunge distance by -30% and increasing the lunge velocity by 50%. The killer would be stronger in the chase in early game but the survivor could remove the perk making the killer weaker in later game. Supposedly the killer would have enough pressure on the map to not require a better chase in the end game.
Another idea I had for the perk is that the perk works like reverse save the best for last. You start with 8 tokens with 80%. Every time you basic attack, you lose 1 token. When all 8 tokens are used up, the perk greys out and is disabled for the rest of the match.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3227024#Comment_3227024
I never liked the knife count nerf. It feels like the devs just saw a baby survivor complaining, "60 knives?! That's OP!" and then nerfed that part of him. My own friends were saying stuff like that. It's kind of embarrassing considering the leap in logic. It's not 60 Huntress hatchets. It's 60 knives which, at the time, you needed to land 8 of to get an injure, and they could 'decay' over time for some reason, and the killer would obviously miss loads of shots, especially considering the slowdown when you start to throw knives and the recoil.
completely agree with your post. he's a killer that lesser skilled survivors complain about because they're out in the open walking in straight line getting pebble by knives and then they see that they lost 2 health-states in 10 seconds. The average player do wiggle but their wiggle movement is so obvious that it might as well be like shooting fish in a barrel. The survivors that are really good at playing against ranged killers with their movement are very difficult to down. personally, I think his movement speed when throwing knives should be increased to 105% m/s so that survivor gameplay is more about dodging knives instead of being completely untouchable with line of sight at high-wall loops. Overall, I think if this change happened, he would be pretty balanced killer. This change would also improve his main event because main event is near joke ability right now. For his current state, he's on the weaker end of killers. He requires a lot of aim and precision to hit survivor with good wiggle movement but the pay-off for playing him is not worth it. its difficult killer to play with low rewards. If my team is strong, its usually free win against him. He is better though in comparison to his released state.
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@OniWantsUrLocation said:
Right... I don't think it would be a good idea to kill him completely @Jangles, nor is it really possible to spray yourself after dropping a pallet @Devil_hit11. At least not if the killer knows about his vaulting ability (useful with strong pallets) or if he doesn't kick the pallet at all. In addition, the survivor would have to have a spray can in the first place.
We had a pretty good suggestion from a user here on the forums. I don't remember their names unfortunately, so I'll just reproduce their suggestions here.
After being unhooked, the infection timer pauses. The timer starts running forward the moment the survivor decides to perform a conspicuous action.
Imo that's pretty fair for both parties. And that's all that matters to me.
the pallet vaulting does not do anything, it just kicks him out of his ability and put hims on long cooldown with huge m/s slowdown. pointless mechanic. the killer is forced to kick the pallet because the pallet is too strong and has no mindgames. carrying the spray is the most efficient way to remove infection since as soon as you get unhooked, you can spray yourself and the spray has 2 charges for 2 hook-states. its almost like dev planned tunneling with his power.
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@Jangles said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3227207#Comment_3227207
What a fried take. You realise you need the time when a pallet drops to get away right?
Secondly, its not about adapting to something. Its about a mechanic being unnecessarily strong and giving the player incentive/option to tunnel.
it doesn't make sense thematically nor gameplay wise. It would be the same as pigs boxes making loud noise notifications whenever someone used a box to remove a trap.
depends situation. the spray is pretty fast. I think it takes 5 seconds by default to spray yourself. depending on what map your on, you will find different places where you can spray yourself when in the chase. most of the time, it just wastes a strong pallet that could been looped for way longer for cost of removing infection.
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@RatbasterdJr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3227176#Comment_3227176
Yea it’s pretty wild. I wasn’t even given the chance to spray. They should atleast halt the infection if you get chased within a certain time of being unhooked. It was literally impossible to escape, and I’m pretty strong in chase. I was just fully infected wayyy too fast and the hindered effect is no joke.
you can carry a vaccine spray unless the wesker also has franklin demise. you can often drop a strong pallet then spray yourself as the killer breaks the pallet. for example, coldwind farm has the cow loop. drop cow loop pallet then spray yourself.
@Jangles said:
Yeah they really need to either remove the hinderance off the infection and/or remove killer instinct when you use a spray can (why is this even a thing?)
nothing really needs to change, just survivors need to adapt to the ability.
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@MrJack20252 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3226008#Comment_3226008
a non intended glitch that always happens when you move to the left is skilled? damn There are clips of streamer doing that without even knowing of this tech and being genuinely surprised, do they have some ultra instinct of some ######### in this game? are they so skilled then? TrueTalent must be Goku or something ahahahahah
tru3 knows about the nemesis tech. virtually every player that plays nemesis to a good-level uses this tech.
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@danielmaster87 said:
Ghost Face is better when he gets lucky for being greedy, as in never ever hitting a survivor unless they're fully stalked, and literally following them around til he gets his power back so he can 1-shot them. And also using the purple speed add-on.
funny that is one of my builds on ghostface, drop-leg+olsen wallet with nemesis+pwyf. I can't really take playing stealth killers seriously in terms of winning but they're funny to play if your ok with losing.
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@EntitySpawn said:
Title.
I dont get it, doesnt matter if the change was done for epilepsy reasons or BM reasons, the change is a good change to help stop both.
Clicking mega fast or macro clicking a flashlight has no actual use in game other than to annoy. It hurt my eyes and was an annoying sound even if it was my team doing it so I can only imagine how bad it would be for people with certain conditions.
You can still click at a teammate, you dont need to spam it.
And you dont need to click to correct flashlight save timings, either get it right or quickly swing the beam out and back in without ever needing to click.
You can still do everything as normal, the change did nothing to how stuff actually works for flashlight saves. Stop trying to defend something that CAN cause harm to others or just be used as a BM tool.
the problem is flashlight are unfun to use now. they're clunky and might as well be worst item in the game with current changes. the survivor are complaining about flashlight changes because they're genuinely bad changes.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3226485#Comment_3226485
I don't think we know the tile budget that tile uses. The only way to get that value would be through datamining anyway.
the killer can mindgame the tile. the pallet seems fine, but an issue with the tile is bloodlust. this the issue with unsafe pallets are not useful since the killer will eventually hit you regardless of how well you play the tile. this is why a lot of the pallets are safe because they force the killer to kick the pallet to break the bloodlust. Supposedly bloodlust is there to counter safe pallets but fails to counter safe tiles because you know... they're safe pallets.
the window could use a buff. its too short on both sides. they should double distance on one-side and increase other side by 1/3 more. it would also help if the window faces the pallet in any direction. I still think buffing weak killer powers is a lot better but I guess adding unsafe tile also bridges the gap between strong and weak. killer power will turn into being cosmetic.
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@TheArbiter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3226487#Comment_3226487
I've never heard of this before, do you have a video link or developer explaining this? I always thought that once you press spacebar on the pallet that's that
nope. that would be insanely broken with dead hard. the pallet has cast time, the pallet must be dropped 50% before the stun is applied. more experienced killer will try to bait you to drop the pallet so they can waste the pallet and still hit you. Its common tactic when used with Enduring.
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Try build to last and camp lockers when healing.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3225911#Comment_3225911
I love the bm argument against flashlights because no one ever wants to acknowledge how much more opportunity there is for killers to BM survivors and to BM them to a much harsher extent.
Survivors at most can tea bag and clicky clicky, or at least they used to be able to clicky clicky. Now they can only tea bag.
Lets talk about how killers can BM
-downing one survivor and standing over them till they bleed out.
-hitting the same survivor on hook while face-camping with a side of nodders.
-tunneling one survivor you dont like and BMing them the entire game until you have killed them off out of the game.
-taking the last survivor to hatch then closing it on them just because
-body blocking a single survivor who was hiding in a corner till the EGC kills them.
Personally its hilarious to me when killers do this to me just for simply playing the game, and if i chose to bm as survivor its only after I've been BM'd myself and even then, if the killer wants me out of the game the game has mechanics built for them to do that like bloodlust which essentially punishes survivors for doing well in chase.
And don't give me this BS about the sounds being there for realism, have you played DBD its a video game its not supposed to be realistic, when is there a freddy IRL is that realistic?
Why would a killer hook me instead of just killing me as soon as they catch me is that realistic?
The realism argument is very weak when it comes to anything related to DBD as it should.
For sure, Killer can be toxic as well. I think both sides have the opportunity to be toxic to each other. Decisive strike at exit gate, flashlight clicking and tea bagging are common associated toxic behaviours. the dev are trying to remove these behaviour's in the game for survivor by brute force. generally I just tend to ignore these behaviours from survivor side because I generally have thick skin to not let these gameplay behaviours affect my gameplay. The only aspect that irritates me is flashlight noise as it hurts your ears. I would not mind if there was an option to mute it or something. I do not think flashlight need to be killed from gameplay standpoint.
I am not entirely sure what could be done on killer-side to reduce toxicity. Survivors have often requested the ability to kill themselves on the floor similar to kobing a hook. The request is to avoid toxicity for when the killer mindlessly slug in the end game on purpose to annoy the survivor. Holding the survivor hostage by bodyblocking, nodding+hitting the survivor on hook when facecamping are difficult problems to solve. its because they are organic gameplay elements that create sense of hostility between survivor and killer.
if the killer wants me out of the game the game has mechanics built for them to do that like bloodlust which essentially punishes survivors for doing well in chase.
Bloodlust, not very well thought out mechanic. in 2016 and 2017 dbd, looping was considered a toxic because of no entity blocking windows with infinities everywhere that could make games last forever. The survivor could keep the killer in the game for like 1 hour+ due to their terrible gameplay balance. it was put as bandaid fix to the maps. really fixing the maps would be better. the mechanic has not aged too well.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3226519#Comment_3226519
On a tangent as a killer I think I’ve lost survivors periodically from Shadow step I might have spotted otherwise (hard to say since when that Boon works well the killer doesn’t know it did anything.) I can definitely picture scenarios with Shadowstep where , for instance, a generator is in its range, a survivor is working on it and spots or hears the killer coming over, and Shadowstep lets them run full speed to a hiding spot without any scratches. Depending on how far the Boon is from the generator the killer might not even realize it’s there at all or that a survivor ran away in that case.
So I do think Shadow step probably has value on its own, and does have synergy with Circle of Healing by hiding auras from Nurse’s Calling. It does also see a bit more use than Dark Theory, but that’s also probably partly because Shadow step is a Mikaela perk so anybody who unlocks Mikaela for Circle of Healing get Shadow Step as a bonus.
i personally think shadowstep is worst boon. I personally just follow blood marks and I do not really lose anyone in the chase. Chase-wise, it is pretty bad perk. Stealth-wise? Its probably better but spine chill superior choice, you can use both of them in stealth build but i think stealth play-styles are not that common unless your Claudette main.
i think shadowstep is good for one particular killer. for this one killer it completely obliterates him and that killer is scratch mirror myers. The boon on indoor maps just destroys him. the perk makes you immune to aura reading and the perk just completely nukes the add-on. I think this is part of the reason why Vanity Mirror got buffed in 2021 late last year for Myer's.
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@almofan1001 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3226468#Comment_3226468
Agreed, but the community constantly underrates Wraith and overrates Ghostface for some reason. For me, GF is one of the worst killers in the game constantly since June 2019 (his release), only competing with Trapper.
The funny aspect is ghostface got reworked.I mean if he is worst killer, he might need another rework.
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@dugman said:
Continuing a series of threads on the least popular perks according to Nightlight, next up is Yoichi’s perk Boon: Dark Theory (0.38%)
Boon: Dark Theory - Press and hold the Ability button near a Dull or Hex Totem to bless it and create a Boon Totem. Soft chimes ring out in a 24 meter range. Any Survivors within the Boon Totem's range gain a 2% Haste status effect. This effect lingers for 2/3/4 seconds after leaving the Boon Totem's range.
You can only bless one Totem at a time. All equipped boon perks are active on your Boon Totem.
Haste is a potentially great effect. Even a relatively small movement speed boost can translate into a harder time for a killer catching them, especially if it’s a 110% speed or slower killer. That said this perk doesn’t seem that great for a couple of reasons.
- 2% is somewhat modest, it could make a difference but it might not.
- As a Boon the perk requires set up time and is limited to a modest area. And if you are being chased in that area and taking advantage of the Boon it’s likely the killer will hear it during the chase and snuff it out meaning you get maybe one use per chase it effects. But as above it’s not even necessarily going to help much in a lot of chases.
To put it another way, I could almost see a 2% Haste buff that’s relatively permanent and not a Boon actually being a perk. I can’t say for sure if such a perk would be overpowered or broken in some scenarios but it definitely doesn’t come off on its face as being busted. But this is that effect with all the limitations of a Boon as well. It just doesn’t look worth it.
This is a tricky one to balance though because even small increases in the speed boost could maybe make survivors potentially literally uncatchable at strong tiles. And because of how certain multi-level buildings and maps work with Boon totems, the last thing you’d want is too large a movement speed bonus on a chunk of the map where the only option for the killer is a long hike to snuff it out to have a chance of hitting people. So while they could hypothetically increase the 2% a bit to buff it there’s probably a fine line here where it will be either too weak or too strong with little window in between.
I’m almost tempted to say maybe just make this not be a Boon at all, simply let it be a passive movement speed boost. That way it could stay at a very small number like 1-2% and still be something survivors might consider using. I could maybe see an issue then with it stacking with Hope in the endgame, but if that is a problem you could simply have Dark Theory deactivate once the gens are powered.
the issue with other boons not named circle of healing is that the time spent for setting up the boon does not meet the rewards of setting up set perk. 2% movement speed allow you to run 1 extra loop on classic tileset pallet/window. I would say the perk is still better then shadowstep but the idea of risk vs reward perks just do not work for dbd. 24 meters for boon perks is not worth using. boon perks for survivor would need to be around 40-48 meter range to gain consistent value but like killer hex perks, they will not improve boon perks radius because people would complain about these perks due to their game-changing effects.
dark thoory at loops can prevent you from not getting hit but its effect on loop itself is very minor. where dark theory really shines as a perk is in hold-w strategies particularly in main buildings. if your ahead of the killer, in buildings and this set boon is setup, you can run a lot of extra laps, so building like... badham school, father's chapel, garden of joy and haddonfield were maps that I got value out of the perk from limited testing. you can place the boon in obscure places then use the speed boost to run in circles ahead of the killer making it a lot harder for the killer to catch-up in conjunction with various windows in these buildings.
this perk is really for survivor player that enjoy stacking chase-enhancement perks such as old spine chill for vaulting speed, Old Iron will, Resilience, Lucky break and Lightweight. I am not really fan of using these perks as survivor. I personally find these type of perks as low reward but some survivors enjoy using these types of perks.
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@MrJack20252 said:
i hate his stupid Linger tech (the one that you can drag is tentacle after a miss and it still counts like a hit) it shouldn't exists. this tech just makes the character more braindead and he is already easy enough.
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxu4MhR0qv0WizPt1PAEGPsl-e3jpmZLSl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3McTUIJJCQ&ab_channel=DOWSEYClips
yes remove the only skill-cap that nemesis has in his kit. total genius.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3225608#Comment_3225608
It literally always took timing and skill, imagine learning something and getting used to the muscle memory and then having all of it changed for no reason.
Now you have to relearn the timing and aiming all over again. The timing never changed, and its still possible to readjust your timing even without reclicking, just aim off target then on target.
But don't act like this patch suddenly made flashlights take skill lol, this patch randomly nerfed flashlights for no reason, the strobing change is fine, but everything else they did is unnecessary, they could have removed strobing without nerfing flashlights.
they killed item because certain survivors could not use the item without annoying the killer with clicking sound. this is one of those things that might been better to remove flashlight clicking sound. I do not think it would make much of difference considering that flashlight is generally used when the killer is locked in place such as pick up, pallet break, window vault, locker grab etc. the killer that are affected by lightburn could have unique effect alerting them that flashlight is being used to compensate sound removal.
the flashlight sound is there for realism but its just that survivor use it to be annoying. it does more harm then good. rip flashlight 2022.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3223788#Comment_3223788
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_testing_(software)
The thing about those types of situations is that once they are identified and their conditions streamlined, they do become important to understand at higher level play. I'm certainly not going to pretend that nobody has ever hidden context to try to sell people on their point, but those situations that "aren't seen that much" still exist and are feasible, which is the point of said videos: education and hopeful prevention first, countermeasure second.
They also almost always involve a perk or mechanic having outliers far different from their intended/advertised outcome, which is another reason why they may be identifying issues before they happen. The entire reason the basekit UB was needed alongside the mori change ptb was because of how absolutely awful slugging would have been without it. If they hadn't done the two tests side by side, there would have been millions of "NO DBD MATCH WILL EVER LAST MORE THAN 2 MINUTES AGAIN!" videos left and right to gobble it up.
if the entire team goes down, there is no base-kit unbreakable currently in the game. The killer wins if the remaining 2, 3 or 4 survivor are downed simultaneously as the killer can wait the survivor's abiltiy to kobe off hooks then proceed to hook them or wait for bleed out(if survivor are hiding) whichever comes first. implying the survivor need base-kit unbreakable is saying that current slugging is "awful" for last 6 years of dbd. the update for instant-killing the survivor changes nothing for killer for whether the killer wins or loses. only thing that does change is survivor having base-kit unbreakable throughout the entire match making it much harder to slug multiple survivors simultaneously.
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@AhoyWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3225210#Comment_3225210
I mean, he can either instadown you, or you move 10% slower but can take two hits.
the 10% hindered is much better then instant down. I am just saying that I would run this meme add-on over playing normal ghostface. that add-on feels like more ultra-rare add-on. maybe it could be rework to ghostface caught on tape since power reset is pretty low impact.
from my understanding, meme add-on are suppose to be add-on that weaken the killer's power for bp gain. Wraith has add-on called The beast soot, it gives blood-points but you lose undetectable. a meme bloodpoint add-on for ghostface would be losing undetectable in nightshroud but gaining 100% blood points in deviousness.
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@AhoyWolf said:
This question will probably never be answered, but I'm here to remedy this issue by creating a brand new meme add-on for Ghosty, introducing the Broken Lens!
Broken Lens
A manual focus lens, broken during a struggle with one of the unfortunate victims.
- Marked Survivors suffer from the Hindered Status Effect instead of the Exposed Status Effect.
- Grants 50% bonus Bloodpoints when fully Marking a Survivor.
A few additional information about the new Broken Lens add-on.
Broken Lens is a Common add-on that replaces the Rare Knife Belt Clip add-on, due to this rarity change, a few add-on rarities need to be moved around. Uncommon Olsen's Address Book is now Rare and the Common Cheap Cologne is now Uncommon.
The Hindered Status Effect granted by the add-on has a power of 10% on the movement speed of Survivors.
The reason for only 50% increase in Bloodpoints for Marking a Survivor (which results in 750 Bloodpoints total) is due to the fact that hitting a Marked Survivors gives you 500 Bloodpoints, and since you're now able to hit them twice while they're healthy and Marked, you can get up to 1000 Bloodpoints.
Hope you like this new idea! Have a nice day.
that is stronger then base ghostface lol. what the point of playing clown that get 2 seconds of hindered when ghostface get permanent pink bottles that last 60 seconds.
He has an add-on that grants haste for 10%, but it only lasts 5 seconds. I would gladly take 60 seconds of this add-on.