Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3239506#Comment_3239506
You never get good hits with your power if you don't use it. It's like calling a Huntress bad for missing shots, when the alternative is not using her power but a few times per match.
I still have yet to see someone properly defend overheat. They just dodge the question, like you did.
the overheat mechanic is useless for strong killer player because the killer player already knows if they can make the curve in advance in making the curve. you have to actively use your power very recklessly to overheat with billy. his power is not about trial & error like it is with hatchets.
The only purpose of overheat is to use these silly useless add-ons like pighouse gloves for 20% brutal strength and that -8 terror radius add-on.
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@AetherBytes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237411#Comment_3237411
I still think trapper should basekit spawn with all his traps, but can only pick up a max of 2 once he has 1 or less.
why the max of 2? is there something crazy about holding 8 traps? Perhaps he should not be able to pick them up as after he places them. smiley face.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3240099#Comment_3240099
Bond has no conditions and so is infinitely more useful when running. The perks do totally different things even if they both show aura in 32m
read his post, he is asking for a perk that shows him when another survivor is on generator, bond does that. They are different perks. I am not sure what your talking about.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Yes, please, PGTW, Call of Brine, Eruption sounds like a great combo, 11/10 would love to lose against bad Killers with that because they manage to drag the game out until no ressources are left.
would you like Iron will back to 100% with no exhaust condition? trade offer!
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@CookieBaws said:
As off now, it reveals a gen you do(solo?) to nearby survivors. To me, it would make sense to reveal gens to YOU when they are being done by single survivor as well.
that perk is called bond.
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@Nos37 said:
The killer will still get 3 or 4 kills, but at least it'll be less frustrating for survivors.
Right now, we have to choose between information, teamwork, or survivability. SWF already get the first two for free... ZERO perk slots
it depends how much information you need. kindred+window is sufficient information for most players. Circle of healing is sufficient healing. Dead hard/Lithe/Sprint burst are good perks to help you in the chase.
Kindred+Window of opportunity+Circle of healing+Lithe/Dead hard/SB is good soloq build. you do not need 8 perks. its just that soloq has bottleneck with perks because not equipping info perks or that one healing perk that killer hate makes soloq have some serious gameplay efficiency problems. low perk freedom for survivor.
8 perk is overkill. just everyone getting global bond or kindred would reduce perk dependency for soloq.
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@Seraphor said:
OTR isn't "too" strong. But my issue is that DS was over nerfed while OTR was over buffed, essentially trading one meta for another.
Given the way they work, I honestly think DS should have a longer duration than OTR.
I'd say OTR could be nerfed to about 45s and still be a strong perk. While DS needs to go back to a 5s or a 4s stun duration.
I think people are forgetting another perk that nerfed in update which is Iron will. Iron will used to be top percentage used perk. I think the number was 30% usage or something like that, just below self-care. Iron will is no longer used and the perk that replaced iron will is Off the record. i think in more cases, the immunity to aura reading is strong vs BBQ as it can prevent you from getting tunneled(getting chased after being unhooked) and this perk is only perk to grant Iron will for prologue amount of time. The endurance effect is most of the time wasted because if the killer is going tunnel you, the nerf to endurance(second chances) means that killer will hit you which proc base-kit borrow time, so this endurance effect is wasted. The reason why killer hit you is because your making no noise from Iron will from OTR and they are intending to tunnel you out of the game.
The bodyblocking effect off the record means that the killer will just tunnel you because if he is chasing a person that is on 0 hooks and you have been hooked at 1 hooks. If you tank the hit when injured, the killer will just logically switch target you. It just makes sense since your closer to death hook then other person. Bodyblocking OTR is good way to get tunneled out of the game.
I think the perk largely replaces Iron will more so then decisive strike. this is why some survivor want to buff decisive strike because OTR is not good enough of replacement for them. Base-kit BT is not good enough. they need -more- second chances. BT always ensures the survivor gets to a loop, so at that point, its your fault for going down. the killer did outplay you. anti-tunneling now is more skill-based. you need be good at the chase for anti-tunnel mechanic to work. Its not a given like it was before with decisive strike.
@Biscuits said:
All they need to do is make it so that during base kit bt, regular bt, and OTR. You have no collision as survivor and the killer can run right through you. You would see tunneling go down a pretty significant amount.
I have one rule when I play as killer, don't tunnel unless they force me to eat base kit bt or otr. I am sure many many other killers do this as well. Lets be clear I don't do this to be a dick. I do it to show them that the worst thing you can do with these endurance buffs, is to try and body block. Run away and heal up, please.
no need change it. you bodyblock me, your inducing tunneling. this is also why unbreakable is really good if your at 0 hooks because killer wastes time hooking you or you just keep bodyblocking. This does require some-swf level synergy though. Not really present in soloq games.
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an item that allow you to teleport to furthest closed(non-powered) exit gate switch after being unhooked. The item is automatic and is consumed from holding it in your hand. Entity mysterious radio.
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@dugman said:
Continuing a series of threads on the least picked perks according to Nightlight, next up is Elodie's perk Appraisal (0.43% usage)
Appraisal - Start the trial with 3 tokens. When a chest has already been opened, consume a token to rummage through it for an item. Rummaging can only be performed once per chest. You rummage through chests 40/60/80% faster.
Truth be told, I don't play survivor that often, but when I do my survivor of choice is always Plunderer Ace because it's kind of fun just going around grabbing random crap from chests. 🙂 (He uses Plunderer's Instinct, Appraisal, Ace in the Hole, and Open Handed). I'll go in with some cheap tools, head to a gen near a chest, use the tools up, loot the chest and hope I get something useful, and then use that and so on. It's a total gimmick, definitely not even close to being a meta build or anything, but I have fun with it.
That disclaimer out of the way, I can understand why Appraisal isn't used that much.
- Are the tokens even necessary? Honestly, would this perk even be close to overpowered if it simply let you loot every chest twice? Why does it even have these tokens at all, it's just an unnecessary complication.
- Just for reference, it normally takes 10 seconds to open a chest and loot what's inside. Appraisal reduces that to 5.6 seconds. Hypothetically if you rummage around in chests four or five or six times that can add up to a bit of savings, but I suspect since a lot of people don't really notice it when they rummage an individual chest they don't really think about that benefit.
- Another ding in its popularity is probably simply that I suspect looting chests is seen as a distraction from the main goal of repairing the gens and escaping and even from secondary goals like healing and rescuing each other. It takes some time traveling to a chest in the first place, after all, and then it takes time to loot it, and even when you loot it you might just get an item like a key or flashlight that you might not bother using anyway. If you do happen to get a toolbox it can save time on the gens but when you factor in the amount of time you spent looting that toolbox it's not as big a benefit as you might think. A medkit can be useful to heal yourself, but again you could have spent that time maybe just finding another survivor who can heal you if you can't do that. So while the items are kind of fun to play around the time it takes to get them out of chests kind of eats away at their benefit. Of course if you also run, say, Plunderer's Instinct and/or Pharmacy with this it speeds up the process of finding the chests and you're more likely to get an item you want, but now you're looking at multiple perks to loot chests which isn't something a lot of people are probably interested in. (I do it for fun but I'm weird! 🙂)
So I do think this perk could probably use a bit of a change or buff to make it a little more popular and maybe help it stand on its own.
- The main buff that jumps out is remove those token, they're not needed at all.
- Also you could maybe simply reduce the Rummage time on an already opened chest to 1 second, basically making it as close to instant as animation allows. That extra time shaved off would make rummaged items worth that much more benefit in total.
- Another possible buff would be to give Appraisal an aura effect similar to Plunderer's Instinct where you can see the auras of already opened chests. (So you'd have Plunderer's Instinct shows you auras of closed chests while Appraisal shows you auras of opened chests.) This would maybe help Appraisal stand a little more on its own a bit.
One last note, in the long run I think part of the reason appraisal and Plunderer's are less popular is simply that, while toolboxes and medkits are obviously useful, the other types of items are definitely perceived as being not quite as good. Flashlights are fun but honestly not that great overall since time spent trying to flashlight saves is usually better spent on gens. Maps can be somewhat handy but I think aren't used as much simply because once you know where something is you don't really need the map for it. And Keys, while they might on rare occasion let you escape at the end of a match, are really only useful for their secondary aura abilities from various add-ons. So in the long run I do think the game might be well served to reexamine Maps, Keys, and Flashlights and maybe buff or merge some of their abilities to put them more on par with tools and medkits. (For example, you could merge Maps and Keys into a single Compass like item that has both the aura effects and the hatch opening effect. That would both reduce the item clutter in bloodwebs and from chests and also give a new stronger type of item that might be a little more in line with tools and medkits.) If or when a broader item adjustment happens then I think it would also in the process help perks like Appraisal or Plunderer's Instinct.
Are the tokens even necessary? Honestly, would this perk even be close to overpowered if it simply let you loot every chest twice? Why does it even have these tokens at all, it's just an unnecessary complication.
it has tokens because in the ptb, the original intention of the perk was for a single chest to allow you to rummage a chest 3 times. you would get 4 items from 1 chest. This got nerfed because of old keys. Plunder increases rarity chance and appraisal allow you to loot single chest 4 times which gave you a good odds to get a skeleton key/purple key every match. Hatch used to spawn if 1 survivor died and 1 generator was remaining meaning that survivor could potentially 3 man escape from keys. The killer could lose for a random trap door mechanic. this also applied when 2 people were alive and 2 generator were left standing. the survivor with the key could open the hatch and 2 survivors could escape through hatch.
They nerfed the perk because of hatch mechanics. The perk never got re-adjusted. The perk is bad because every item except med-kit is a waste of time. A chest takes 10 seconds to open but best toolbox base-kit toolbox is 10.67 seconds. Every other toolbox is negative in terms of time. Maps are only used for tracking totems but their radius to use them only tracks maps within 8 meters. You need add-on that increase distance to track items(when holding the button) to use the map. Flashlight used to be ok before their update. They had a lot of base item durability to do basic functions, but after their nerfs, the item has no durability without add-on's. Keys were only used to open the hatch. After the hatch was changed negatively, the main use of key is to use blood amber which base keys do not have from finding them in a chest. The hatch itself is for drawing, but a survivor will bring a key in the match from the normal bloodweb if they wish to escape through the hatch.
Med-kit are only items that are efficient to loot from a chest. It takes 10 seconds to loot from a chest and 16 second to heal. so in total, you will heal yourself in 26 second. a green-med kit will heal you in 10.6(21) seconds. you have 1/5 chance to get rewards from opening a chest. Looting chests is unrewarding in dbd which is why looting chests in dbd is throwing. Before the items became worse, Key,Flashlight and old toolbox with 80-180 charges, you had 4/5 chance to maybe get an item that is beneficial in the match so looting chest might not be a bad idea but throughout complaints of dbd in regards to items, all items have received negative changes. I do expect med-kit to eventually be weakened as well. My predictions will be that med-kit will receive large charge reduction either by raw numbers, such as 4/8/8/12 charges for each med-kit or a nerf to self-care mechanic of med-kits such as removing the mechanic entirely or increasing the charge consumption of med-kits by 100% when used for self-caring(This effectively double the cost of self-healing), so a purple med-kit would spent 32 charges to self-care heal 1 health-state from the survivor. I am more incline to believe that med-kit self-care function will be removed purely because of red styptic needle & purple stypic needle. Just my guess from trending pattern with the other items.
in general, they will not really improve these perks because what make or breaks this perk is how effective the base-version of the item is. current item list is 80% useless and 20% useful(killer say that med-kit are overpowered apparently).
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@Xernoton said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3238569#Comment_3238569
It's true. I confirmed it here: https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Max_Thompson_Jr.#Power_Trivia
The initial cooldown for the chainsaw is always the same (except with addons). Bumping addons are the same in that regard. But the difference is you still use an addon so it should do something. Looking through the addons you have availabe on Billy, the bumping addons aren't even too bad compared to what else you could bring. Also I never understood why Billy needs to have a second cooldown after failing his chainsaw. You can move normally but anything else is not working for a short time.
opps, my error. I read your post as reducing cooldown of bump reduces all billy cooldowns. i misread your post. rewarding the killer for failing to use their power makes little sense to me. Otz suggestion for billy is weird.
The dev will just look at billy kill-rate, see that it is 60% which is right on target. See that no changes need to be made. perfectly balanced killer.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3238348#Comment_3238348
Minor point but there are a few other perks that can do literally nothing. Lightborn for example does absolutely nothing if nobody brings a way to blind you.
But yeah, some people don't like the risk it won't do much which I'm sure hurts it.
killer can quick switch to lightborn because they can see survivor in lobby with items. its same thing with franklins, but survivor that use flashlight often quick switch to them because of said perk in the lobby. the med-kit and toolbox are not quick switched because you can drop item in the lobby which counters franklin demise.
With anti-totem perks for each side, the circle of healing perk is not shown just as old hex:ruin was not shown. you need to equip it knowing that the perk could be a risk.
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i would say 60 killers which will occur around dbd 2028. The main aspect that is approaching near over-saturation is survivor and killer perks. there are currently 213 total perks in dbd. If dbd continues to release perks for next 5 years. this number will double to 400+ perks. that is a lot of perks. I am not sure how dbd will manage for 400+ perks.
@HectorBrando said:
We already have more than enough Killers, it has been like that for several patches, the game is so bloated they have to rehash powers to make "new and exciting" Killers, lets post some examples of this.
- Wesker: Discount Nurse but cant teleport through solid objects, Clown slow and moves 115%
- Sadako: Jigsaw RTBs (stalling objective), Freddy teleports and Wraith invisibility (and all worse than their original counterparts).
- Artist: Traps+Hatchets.
- Pinhead: RTBs (stalling objective) and a Deathslinger chain+Clown slow.
- Nemesis: Discount Pyramid Head with 2 NPCs.
- Trickster: Discount Huntress, more lenient if you miss and 1000% tackier clothes.
- Pyramid Head: Discount Huntress with 115%.
- Deathslinger: Discount Huntress with a hat.
- Oni: Hillbilly but has to gain his power and is easier to land.
Whats next? Leatherface but with stealth? Plague with a bycicle? You can only add so much with the game mechanics the game has.
This is an extreme over-generalization of killers. I think your looking at these abilities as functional powers from bird eye view. I do not think developer look at killers in this sense. They look at killers as micro play-styles that eventually turn into macro survivor challenge.
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@Xernoton said:
Most suggestions aren't bad in my oppinion. However he forgot to account for something on Hillbilly. All his cooldowns are the same. So reducing the bumping cooldown, while not a bad idea in general, would mean players would be encouraged to bump.
not true. the cooldown for bumping is different compare to the cooldown for missing. An old billy add-on distinguished between both cooldowns. bumping cooldown add-on encourage bad billy play where you can bump into objects on purpose to follow up m1 on survivors.
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@dugman said:
Continuing a series of threads on the least picked perks according to Nightlight, next up is the generic killer perk Shattered Hope (0.63% usage)
Shattered Hope - Whenever you snuff a Boon Totem, the totem is destroyed instead. When you destroy a Boon Totem this way, the auras of all Survivors inside the Boon Totem range are revealed to you for 6/7/8 seconds.
Ironically I've actually been using this perk myself the last couple of weeks since Circle of Healing starting poking its head in occasionally to the top 3 most used perks list. And I've gotten to actually destroy a Boon with it most matches so it's not been totally terrible in that respect. 🙂
That said, I certainly wouldn't be against it getting a slight buff to increase its popularity a bit. I think the main reasons the perk isn't popular despite being a generic perk are probably:
- If the survivors don't bring Boons then the perk is useless so its strength depends partly on the state of the perk meta. Fortunately at the moment Circle of Healing is still very popular (around a 20% usage rate on Nightlight for instance) so odds are you'll probably see at least one Circle of Healing or other Boon close to every match or so.
- Another issue is, even if the survivors bring a Boon, in order to make use of this perk you actually have to travel to and find the Boon to snuff it out and sometimes Boons can be in awkward spots on the map. For instance, if a Boon is up on the second floor of Ironworks it can take you a good 10-15 seconds just to go there and run up the spiral stairways to reach it which is a bit of time to not actively trying to chase survivors. The plus side is if you do invest that time that spot is gone forever with this perk, but it's still a small risk doing it.
- Also the secondary effect of seeing auras within the Boon's range is kind of mild. Yeah, if there happens to be a survivor near you then great! But odds are pretty good that if you are next to a Boon the survivors probably already ran for the hills and aren't that close a lot of the time. (Maybe if there's a key gen nearby and they were hoping to hide it out you can catch them out on it, but I would bet more often than not the aura never triggers from this perk.)
So this perk does have potential, and does have some synergy with a couple of other perks like Pentimento (since you can destroy a Boon and immediately place a Pentimento instead) and Undying (since Undying lets you see auras of survivors next to dull totems which can give you a really good idea of where a Boon is being placed). But it does feel just a bit weak probably on the whole on its own.
Off hand I can think of a couple of possible ways to maybe boost the perk a bit
- Significantly increase or even remove the aura's range limitation. If you could, for instance, see auras of all survivors across the entire map for 8 seconds when you destroy a Boon that would be a fairly nice effect, kind of similar to getting Retribution or Lethal Pursuer for instance.
- Add in an effect to Shattered Hope that helps the killer find Boons in the first place. For instance, maybe have it let them see the auras of Boon totems within 15-20 meters. (For reference I think killers can hear Boons up to about 12 meters, so this would be an aura you can see a little beyond that.)
Kicking boon is secondary objective for killer and killer do not like secondary objectives because it impedes on their objective to hook survivors. As a result, you face an opportunity cost between kicking boons or chasing survivors. This is the same opportunity cost of kicking a gen vs chasing a survivor but at least with kicking generators, generator kicking is something that you can consistently do every match as opposed boon kicking. What this perk does is make boon kicking more rewarding. I think if your going to make a perk that counter boons similar to small game/counter-force/detective hutch, then I would suggest the perk to work automatically.
Examples of automatic perks that would counter boons better
Version 1:
Every time a survivor is put into the dying state by basic or special attack, All boon totems on the map are snuffed. Decreases boon speed by 15%/25%/35%.
Version 2:
After hooking a survivor, Shatter hopes activates:
The next time a survivor boon is placed on the map within 64/96/128 meters, The survivor boon totem is destroyed. Shatter Hope deactivates after the totem is destroyed.
I think these two versions of the perk would be far superior version to counter boons. At the same time, Just like the small game/detective hutch/counter-force for survivor, I do not think many killer would run it because they would still see these perks as risk perks where a more consistent perk like Scourge hook: Pain resonance is more prefer in the average perk slot out.
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@SkeletalElite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235245#Comment_3235245
It does not, a hook trade is an interaction that favors the killer.
opposite, it favors the survivor because they have collective amount of 8 hook-states before they die. this is why killer camp because the regression rewards them for camping & preventing unhooks.
they had a perk called reassurance that pauses hook timer so that your not forced to save the survivor from going 2nd or 3rd stage but the perk got a negative change before it came out.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237074#Comment_3237074
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237139#Comment_3237139
How is hook trading and doing gens not the correct response to a 'down one then camp' Killer if you want a 3E or 4E? What kills survivors in that scenario is the hiding in bushes by the hook or the unhooking too soon.
Go do gens, when a full hook stage is almost expended hook trade, repeat, have 3 to 4 survivors make it through the exit gate. If a Killer is staying by the hook, you punish them by doing gens.
a lot of survivor disconnect/rage quit if you leave them off hook. Sometimes survivor disconnect just for going down. its really crazy. the perk that was suppose fix hook trading and camping was reassurance but they weakened the perk before it went live.
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Trapper problems can be summed up in these 3 points
-The ability for survivor to disable traps far outweigh the time needed for trapper pick up traps and set them. He is bad vs SWF and loses to teamwork. He is ok vs solo because most solo actively pretend his power does not exist which allow you to use his traps in stealth-like manner.
-The survivor ability to save teammates that have been trapped means the trapper needs to be closer to the target that got trapped than another teammate. this makes traps that are long distance very irrelevant. This creates dynamic that makes trapper lockdown-heavy because he physically needs to be next to his traps when they trigger to get a reward. This has secondary problem of making trappers difficult to relocate his traps once they have been placed because the further the traps are spread out, the longer it takes for trapper to walk to them and relocate them.
-His traps in the chase is an ineffective chase tool because of how long it takes to setup traps in chase. Survivor can leave loops as he set them up at base-kit. If a trap is not pre-set in a loop, he is m1 machete man.
Going detail for how to fix these issues would be too long of a post.
I suggest watching his video in 2x speed. I do not think fully express the problems of each killer in large detail. I would say most of killer fall under yellow or purple. I agree with his red color choices for killer. The only killer I think are green are Nurse and Blight. I thought about making a post in feedback section for killer but in the end, I decided to not write one.
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@dugman said:
Continuing a series of threads of the least picked perks according to Nightlight, next up is the generic survivor perk This is Not Happening (0.62%)
This is Not Happening - Great Skill Check success zones when repairing and healing get 10/20/30% bigger when you are injured.
Just for reference, hitting a Great Skill Check shaves off more or less 1 second worth of time on both gen repairs and healing checks (it's +1% out of 90 seconds on gens and +5% out of 16 seconds on heals). You'll get about 7-8 skill checks over 90 seconds while repairing a generator without tools, for example, so if you happen to hit every single Great check you've saved about 7-8 seconds (or more if you also are using something like Hyperfocus).
Also, for context, here's a side by side of the skill checks with and without the perk. The first pic is without the perk, the second is 30% larger.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0X0OK2ZQ8EBW/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/P4SY7JLV4IN8/image.png
There's a couple of issues here.
- As you can see in that picture above, "30% bigger" means the zone is just a couple of pixels larger. It's barely noticeable. Honestly if you can consistently hit the check in the bottom picture you can probably hit the check in the top picture just about as often.
- The perk only works when you're injured. So there's a decent chance it's doing nothing at all half the match assuming you try to stay healthy.
So I'm not at all surprised this perk is seeing very little use. Even with Hyperfocus seeing some modest use right now it doesn't even show up as a popular perk in combination with Hyperfocus on Nightlight either. Its effect is just way too marginal.
There are a few ways I can think of off-hand to possibly buff this one up to help it gain a little more traction
- Remove the condition that you have to be injured for it to work. At least then you're getting to try and squeeze value out of it the whole match.
- Increase that 30% size improvement to something more substantial. Heck, you could probably go as high as maybe even 100% here without breaking it (hard to say what the actual number should be without actually seeing it in action but 30% is almost certainly too low.)
you certainly choose a taboo perk to create discussion on. gen speed perks are as taboo as exposed add-on for killer.
keeping short and sweet. the perk is not used because it is not slot efficient. It is not worth perk slot. It is meant to be gen-rush perk which is why it has injured condition but the benefits of hitting 5-6 great skill-checks on a generator is around 5-6%. By default, it is not worth using. Its seen as training wheel perk because basic skill-check are possible without the perk. It has synergy with hyperfocus but according to your stats website, Stake out is used more because stake out has raw benefit where as this perk lacks perceived raw benefit.
i think the stake out 1% bonus should be moved to TIH from stake out.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236388#Comment_3236388
Not really. The directional audio means the survivor gets more information on the spirit than they did before and the power might not be as effective at safer loops. Overall, survivors still need to make reads and you can’t always perfectly react to the directional audio because of how fast she is. She’s not as strong as she was before, but it isn’t autoplay for the survivor by any means.
Basekit spirit is pretty much perfect as she is. Had they gone through with the change they initially proposed where she kicks up dust (thank god they didn’t), then that would’ve been overkill.
The directional audio means the survivor gets more information on the spirit than they did before and the power might not be as effective at safer loops
they get so much information that it defeats purpose of being invisible. there is no need for dust when you can hear her across walls. Swinging outside of phase can get you hit by dead hard.
Survivor see spirit, Spirit see's survivor. Its only fair deal? If you cannot tell, I am joking.
you could make dbd meme image where the image looks black & white. On one side, you have Ada's wong wiretap image, In the middle you have spirit with these two add-ons and on black side, you have an image of red bumble on killer instinct.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
I agree. Dried Cherry Blossom just completely ruins Spirit, imo. It quite literally does play the game for you. As a survivor you can't tell if she has it or not initially so you just have to play as if she does because if you don't and she has it, she'll just catch you. It's not a fair addon at all and nerfing it won't make it healthier; it just needs to be reworked completely (and not back into what it was before 5.3.0 because the old version of the addon was terrible). And she will still be strong enough without it.
And then yeah MDR could use a nerf.
directional audio cue for spirit quite literally plays the chase game itself for survivor. what is the point of playing against an invisible killer if I know the exact location for where the invisible killer is? It defeats purpose of being invisible.
both of these add-on is killer equalizing the negative changes.
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i love your drawings. some of them are cute. i did not mean to offend you.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236242#Comment_3236242
Add on making Trapper can not pick up traps. If survivor able to complete a Gen within his 3 Gens setup, at least 2 traps are wasted since the whole area around that Gen is useless now.
Giving him 8 traps at the starts without drawing back, he can simply move those 2 traps after the huge risk of survivor doing Gen in a land mine.
Trapper needs buff that increase the interaction between bothside, not cheap change and boring gameplay.
I feel like i am writing to a wall. Every killer can do boring gameplay without needing to be trapper. The way they balanced trapper makes him have no alternative besides 3 generator's.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236223#Comment_3236223
He would lose 3-4 Gens to make it happens. Start with all trap is 3 Gens at the beginning.
um... a 3 gen is when you lose all 4 gens. Killer can 3 gen at the start. In the time you spent doing first 4 generators, he spends time setting up 3 generator. I do not see how add-on changes anything but ok.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235643#Comment_3235643
Start with all traps should never be a thing. Every match against Trapper will always 3 Gens match. Thats why Purple bag come with biggest draw back.
trapper can 3 gen without trapper bag though.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
I would not say 90%. That is simply not true.
For the rework, here you go. Some things are a bit outdated though (this is from 2 years ago).
i do not really face much myers. when I do, they usually get looped for very long time and it is pretty easy to loop him for many generators. I think dev like that their killer have unique play-styles.
when they make a killer, they usually make a killer with a particular idea in mind. With myer's, his particular idea is a killer that has unlimited firepower, unlimited punishment for being downed once. I think that is pretty cool but I think his base-kit being weak is property of being balanced around the premise that he always instant kills you. that is why his base-kit cannot really be buffed because anything you buff in base-kit changes his balance for tombstone.
I think that is why players feel like bloodweb system for both killer and survivor is somewhat superficial. once player acquires enough bloodpoints, all strongest add-on for killer become base-kit so its as if the killer strongest add-on are their base-kit. that is sort of what BBQ did for killer.
Survivor items were not base-kit. they only recently started to become base-kit because of reduce in bp in bloodweb. you needed to run wglf & prove thyself to emulate bloodpoint gains that killer had with BBQ. Now the survivor items are becoming base-kit since survivors can earn enough blood-points to equalize their death vs spending. The survivor items are so weird because they started off as win-more mechanic since you used to keep your add-on and your item for escaping. now you only keep your item but add-on are discarded. survivor items are always kinda weird.
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@Crowman said:
I don't see a point to making this change. The point of a perk like sloppy butcher is to make healing take longer and force survivors to have to commit.
the point of his change is that he hates hemorrhage and wants it to be useless. He should suggested a change like hemorrhage does not activate instantly, but instead take 80 seconds to activate.
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@Predated said:
And no, this isnt a post about balancing or Nurse being too powerful(at least, not directly), there are plenty of those. What I am talking about is decisions made in the past that were logically sound for being either too powerful or being too unfair on killers, yet never applied that logic to Nurse:
- The easiest one: making her blink attacks M2 because its an M2 ability. Spirit and Wraith are technically also guilty for this one, but we have Legion and Pig who had their power turned into an M2, when it was basically an amplified M1.
- Fatigue. We dont have many killers with fatigue, Legion, Blight, Wesker(its not exactly a fatigue, but it might aswell be). Legion was the second killer since Nurse to have addons that reduced fatigue significantly, these addons were nerfed because there wasnt enough time for survivors to react in certain cases. Blight's fatigue addons were kept to take away at most 25% to be safe. Nurse is capable of reducing her fatigue with 50%. Thats not even including that stunning her takes away her fatigue entirely. Leading me to point 3.
- Legion fatigue addons were nerfed partially because they lost it on pallet stun. Nurse was assumed to have had this feature removed because she kept her fatigue addons and stunning a Nurse was difficult, but they slapped it on back.
- Charge addons. Seriously, look at any other killer that deals with charges. What killer is capable of reducing their charges? You have Blight, but that took quite a bit and other parts of his basekit have been altered or nerfed to accomodate to that. The rest? Wesker has to wait 6 seconds, while he closes a similar distance to Nurse(as they have the basic concept for gap closer, except Nurse can go through obstacles where Wesker can vault) AND has a bigger terror radius, at most a . Bubba takes 14 seconds to fully recharge. Spirit? Legion? 15 and 20 seconds respectively. And yeah, I get that blinking is Nurse's main method of transportation, so letting her wait on her charges too long is going to make her extremely boring, but from a chasing perspective, basically being able to spam a gap closer by reducing charge time with addons even further means hat literally the only thing holding her back is vision blockers.
- Having basically no punishment for messing up your ability. With every single other killer, missing your attack after using an ability increases the distance survivors can gain. With Nurse? Go ahead, swing, while she technically does get punished for missing it, being able to trigger fatigue faster practically cancels it out. So why not swing? Now only do you not have to deal with a spamming gap close ability, but one that constantly puts you in danger of getting hit, without ever giving you the chance to actually gain distance. There is not a single killer other than Nurse that benefits from missing an attack. Even a strong gap closer like Blight allows survivors to gain a relatively significant amount of distance before he can try hitting them again.
Seriously, why not apply the same logic to Nurse? Is there a bigger plan that requires Nurse to stay the way she is? is there an unannounced change coming? We didnt forget that Twins and Blight were both considered higher priority in terms of making changes back in January, yet I would argue that having double standards for any killer should put them on the highest priority. Why are mechanics considered unfair on certain killers and need alteration, but when talking about Nurse, those same unfair mechanics are considered fine to the point of being untouched for years? The only answer I can think of right now, is that Nurse only really flourishes in the higher skills where other killers flourish in lower skills. But that answer would have existed for a very long time by now, with the root of the problem being arguably known since 2018(massive potential performance gaps between solo survivors and swf, and a massive potential performance gap between Myers and Nurse).
And yeah, I might have been a bit misleading by making my question rhetorical, its time to stop favoritism. Apply the logic to killers equally.
nurse does basic attack out of her power. her power is going from point A to point B. Nurse using basic attack perks is same logic as Deathslinger using instant downs perks when getting hit by his redeemer. Even though deathslinger inflicts deep wound with basic attacks, the action of lunging is consider a basic attack because his power is pulling you towards you, not the the act of basic attacking. it is not a double standard.
Fatique does not matter for nurse. what matters is her token recharge. she moves slower then survivor. you shouldn't be getting hit by 96% m/s killer.
Nurse does get punishment for missing but the problem is that most of common loops in dbd have windows and lack of consistent line of sight blockers. Just because nurse cannot see you does not mean that nurse does not know approximately where you are. she is only need 1-2 seconds of vision to predict approximately where you are across the wall. the distance between you and nurse in regards to the wall is not very big. nurse can sort of outskill her weakness of line of sight blockers by blinking strategically. In some sense, nurse abuses outdoor maps instead of being countered by outdoor maps like other killers.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235591#Comment_3235591
CoH changes things on a conceptual level far beyond the perk itself, including killing entire playstyles. People stopped talking about it because they just started camping and tunneling more instead of trying to spread pressure. Its still a pretty big issue, but people adapted instead of continuing to complain. Dead hard, by comparison, changed the entire way the perk works to address the problem it had, which was forcing lose/lose situations and being able to correct mistakes without even requiring interaction with the killer in the process.
If CoH was changed to only boost healing speed and not allow self heals, it would have been fixed similarly. Giving other survivors a 5th perk slot on a conceptual level is a major part of why it is as strong as it is, and why numbers adjustments aren't a good way to fix it.
killer play-styles should be re-directed into perks that facilitate that playstyle. there are also killer power that can help strengthen a play style in synergy with perks. Just like certain killer perks might facilitate a play-style, there are certain survivor perks that punish/counter a particular play-style. If hit & run is weak, then perhaps invent new perks that reduce healing speed and buff existing perks that reduce healing speed. Those perks will help the killer facilitate a spread pressure playstyle.
One of my main issues with playing soloq survivor(and I'm certain many other survivor share this problem) is that healing coercion in soloq is really bad. Without presence of aura perks for survivor to precisely know the location of survivors, healing in soloq is not time efficient. It takes too long to heal because finding teammate on outdoor maps is painful. For example if a survivor get hooked in badham, a survivor team can unhook you, but the killer is proxy camping and is coming back to the hook but does not find you/chase you. You have no time to heal so you are split up from the teammate that saved you. you need find the other two teammate which could be on any generator and walking around mindlessly to every generator is not time efficient. Its much better to be able to directly walk to your teammate, but lack of information prevents time efficiency.
There is also the fact that a lot of games as survivor, you end up not being the survivor who is being chased but all your teammate are dropping the flies. Being the janitor survivor is not very fun for when I play survivor. I do not like spending time healing teammates that go down to a billy because I know that there is likelihood chance that a survivor going down to x weak killer at x point in the match is likely to get hit and go down again. Healing is only thing that you can do for your teammate to try to make them not go down as fast. Sure, they might pull a miracle and suddenly they become godly and loop the killer properly but more often then not, healing is just means to delay their inevitable death.
There is also the problem where the agreement to heal and consent to reset everyone health-state from injured to healthy is mushy. there is often no concise plan in soloq. its just ebb & flow. COH fixes a lot of these soloq issues in regards to finding survivors, being a janitor towards your teammate health-states and whole reset your team health-states. This is whole reason why everyone used to run self-care at one point because self-care also fixes these issues. With self-care, you not need to find teammates, you just heal on your own. The agreement to heal is no longer needed because once again, your healing on your own and the 4 survivors(if all of them equip self-care) can janitor their own health-state. You can assess your own risk vs reward to being injured. This is also same reason why a lot of survivor use med-kits because med-kits are like old stronger self care.
I think if soloq had same efficiency at healing as SWF does in 3 man re-grouping to heal, then perhaps these med-kits & coh could use toning down. As of right now though, the med-kits & circle of healing reduce need for teamwork from the survivor which soloq has poor teamwork overall in the average match. If survivor had aura's, there would be less of a need to use these healing boosters since healing is already pretty fast when done in a group. Weakening COH is little bit like weakened old self-care. it makes solo-q feel worse to play but does not change anything for SWF because they do not healing perks to efficiently heal. The bottom line is that survivor that med-kit & coh use it because they do not like the killer snowballing heal pressure and the whole team-dynamic in soloq for healing.
If CoH was changed to only boost healing speed and not allow self heals, it would have been fixed similarly. Giving other survivors a 5th perk slot on a conceptual level is a major part of why it is as strong as it is, and why numbers adjustments aren't a good way to fix it.
the perk would still grant 5 perk slots to other survivors. All hex perks grant 5 perks to the survivor. Its just that other boon perks have range restricting making those perks situational 5th perks that are not worth equipping. removing self-care benefit would still grant everyone 50% botany knowledge, but now the perk is as situational as other boons. In other words, it is not worth using.
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@mischiefmanaged said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234703#Comment_3234703
I like Otz but the community manager in this thread confirmed that they don't balance solely on kill rates and they've had previous posts that have indicated they are aware that once someone dies the chance of more dying is higher. And they've also said they aren't balancing for 2k/2e every match as they don't even really consider that possible.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234073#Comment_3234073
Literally here and in a previous post. Kill rates are likely only shared because they're one of the easiest things to digest and give to the community who is asking for statistics.
Just as an example, they're likely aware that Sadako is on the weaker end when it comes to killers. I don't really think you're going to be able to do a 50 win streak with no addons like Otz always likes to do. But the players who do use her get success at the level they play at and she gets a decent enough kill rate that she's got a place in the game. She's also a very easy killer to use. Probably the best starter killer in the game at this moment because she both has strong perks, a simple power, and map mobility.
i think its opposite. i think dev only balance off statistics and ignore killer gameplay. for example if you ask otz how sadako feels to play. He suggests that sadako is D-tier. among worst killers in the game but stats do not correlate to her being worst in the game. its just how she feels to play. its the same with freddy. otz has freddy at D-tier as well but freddy does better then like 50% of the killers.
deathslinger got some negative changes and yet his kill-rate is the same as huntress but his pick-rate went down significantly to 2.16% as opposed to what it was in the past which was something like 5-6%. kill-rates means so little in comparison to how the killer feels to play.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235019#Comment_3235019
That's why I posted it here. Also the fact that stealth is stronger in lower and mid rankings makes perfectly sense.
Yesterday I had a Pinhead match where the killer used the Iri Box addon which makes it invisible outside of the chain hunt. That was a nightmare even with my swf buddy because the other 2 were solo. And many people don't understand the box spawn logic either, making it very difficult to deal with efficiently.
i think that is something i said long time ago about stealth that it is noob-stomper. Dredge prove my point and otz highlight that in the video. I was just blind to the pattern even though I knew it was true from just playing the game. I do not need stats to tell me that.
I assume its because you were trying find the cube. the cube is pretty easy to find with 24 meter aura reading but my advice is to just ignore cube because cube does nothing for 90 seconds which is enough time to do 3 gens. When the cube timer does go all the way, then you just need one person to pick cube and other 3 survivors lose chain-hunt. The add-on does not work when chain hunt begins. as a result, the aura of the box is shown globally on the map. this makes entire add-on irrelevant and pointless. if pinhead has hoarder, he will chase after you because he wants to trigger the chain hunt for gen slowdown, so at that point, its just about looping pinhead with the box by side-step his active chain ability.
If he is not chasing after you, you get hold the box hostage and solve the box at the appropriate time. He is so simple to go against. He is another noobs-stomper. I play him sometimes because most survivor do not know how to play against his chain-hunt and just spam pick-box which is just free game-delay if I down them with the box though his chase is not that good if the survivor is skilled at dodging/mind gaming his chains. The killer is playing hard mode nurse that has rewards of clown pink bottles for landing his chains and half the time, the chains do not even do anything for me landing the ability. In certain instances, missing the ability is large distance gain for the survivor. what an amazing risk vs reward diagram for killer. the stats do not really tell story for that killer at all. all that say is that survivors are really bad at playing vs chain-hunt.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
I just found this vid from Otz and he explains the stats quite well.
if i was content creator and not someone that just writes post on forums, that video is pretty good breakdown of the stats. The part that I really loved about his breakdown was 19:00-20:30 where he is talking about how most of killer are smack in the middle and balanced, but most of killer that are in the middle have glaring gameplay issues. that was my favourite part about that video. he talks about a lot of valid points and very observable patterns in statistics.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232660#Comment_3232660
The build is pretty addon dependent. You need the condemn spreads via healing and some way to get tvs back faster which the best bet is the iri videotape which imo is an insane addon that should probably get toned down.
I think Sadako's basekit is a bit too weak as if you tried doing condemn slugging without any addons you just have no threat since your ways to spread condemnation are very slow without addons. I personally would like to see Iri Videotape get toned down and some basekit improvements to her tvs, but somehow I feel like that won't happened.
What would be nice to see with these stats would be addon usage rates per killer.
iri tape is not her main source of condemn, its supplementary source of condemn when used with ring drawing. if survivor heal themselves off the floor, the person who healed the survivor on the floor get 1 stack and other person gets 1 stack. assuming a survivor is next to a tv, you teleport and each of survivor gain 1 stack of condemn. both survivor gain 2 stacks of condemn.
Condemn survivors is possible with just ring drawing, but the issue with only ring drawing is that because TV have 100 second cooldown, sometimes the survivor will be next a TV that has been used, so you will miss out on condemn stack because your TV is on cooldown. With iri-tape, you never miss the chance to TP because your TV are always available assuming you get 1 hit. the slugging is there so that people cannot hardcounter the add-on using med-kits & circle of healing.
in order to make tv's a primary source of condemn, you need to use a purple add-on called VCR. VCR plays projection on every TV that is on when sadako teleports. In other words, if you are next to a tv and that tv is on, everyone that is near a tv gains 1 progress bar. I do not want to explain how to utilize this add-on but if you understand some perk synergy, you can create some nasty strategies around VCR. that add-on is like old ebony mori's. a strong team can beat that iri tape+VCR but it is not fun to play against it. If i played against sadako that add-on with correct perk synergy, it would not be very fun to go against in my opinion. for that reason, I do not use that add-on because it is not interactive to play. This is my guess to why her TV's are 100 second cd. It is to balance that add-on. its just that add-on should really be iri-level because it is super strong for its low amount of counter-play. with unbreakable base-kit, more sadako's that main her will be forced to use that add-on because ring drawing will have too much counter-play against certain teams.
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@HellDescent said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234688#Comment_3234688
Don't go into dradzones? Are you aware where they are when you spawn? You need to move through the map as you play in order to do gens, totems help teammates etc .and that includes deadzones.
Soldier's puttee is iri.
The whole reason behind having 3 health states is for survivor to reposition if they are found. So you most likely would be reloading after every chase without iri and no belt/loop addons. That's not the case with ranged attack that one-shots. You don't get to brake los or go in a building after an initial hit. The chase ends with you on the ground.
being in deadzones is relative to the killer's position. If your injured and half way across the map on mother dwelling and a killer is chasing someone, there is no risk in being injured because your unlikely to take a hit. It is safe to work on generator in many cases when being injured. health-states are only relative towards when you need them.
This is why styptic needles is powerful add-on for med-kits because you can play injured the entire game and any time the killer would down you, the styptic needle grants 8 seconds of endurance. If the killer hits you, you get speed boost, if the killer does not hit you, you get to the pallet which is lose/lose scenario for the killer. Your injured but your add-on prevents you from being punished for being in dead-zone. You get the health-state exactly when you would need to get the health-state to prevent going down.
this is why experienced survivor disregard instant downs as being powerful because you can outplay an instant down by just sticking to the loops. The loops make you safe as survivor as long as you are able to get to them. There is no need to reposition if you already are in position in the first place. Being in position is a given for survivor. Huntress in particular has 40 meter lullaby. there is zero possibility that huntress can ever stealth without the survivor being unaware of her position. The survivor can always be in the position to loop huntress so being out of position is mistake by the survivor. The -4 ammo is too significant of a drawback to outweight the positives of the capacity to instant down. The huntress wastes more time reloading with the add-on than she saves from getting downs with this add-on especially if survivor stays injured and use dead hard as second-chance towards the power.
Soldier's puttee is iri.
I know it is iri, its trash-tier iri. it does not belong an iri, even if the add-on has no drawbacks and just boosted huntress movement speed by 5% flat. it would still be terrible add-on. Huntress relies on her ability. not the base m/s. The add-on is suppose to improve the ability and this add-on improves base-stats of a killer instead of improving the hatchets(power) which is most important aspect of the killer.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233985#Comment_3233985
But from what i read, pre 6.1.0 killers would still have an average rate of 52-53% killrate which means they would still kill more on average than survivors would escape. I dont truly believe they were having such a "rough time".
that is one aspect that i hate about dev's statistics is that they use kill-rates as only statistic to balance and they create perception that kill-rate = win-rate of the killer. 52% kill-rate means that the killer can get 2 kills(draw) in 9/10 of their games and they only need a single 3k to be at 52.5% kill-rate (21/40 survivors died in 10 games). 60% kill-rate means that the killer only needs to kill 24 out of 40 survivors to get 60% kill-rate. a combination of 6 games that are 2k and 4 games that are 3k is one combination which is 24 kills out of 40 survivors(60% kill-rate). Another combination is that close to 60% is 6 games that are 2k's, 1 game that is 1k and only 3 games that were 4k's and only 3 games that are 4k's. it leads to 25/40 kill-rate which is 62.5% in 10 games. Obviously these statistics can be upscale to 100's, 1000's of games.
As long dev balance exclusively only kill-rate only kill-rate itself, the killer will never feel like they're winning more then they are losing because they can secure a bunch of draws and only win a few games decisively to maintain average kill-rate.
I think otz said it best in his video. According to dev's eyes, Pig, Wraith, Twins, Myer's, Hag, Billy, Freddy, Legion and Artist are considered the most balanced killer at top 5% MMR because all of these killer hit 60% kill-rate on the dot. it means these killers need zero changes because they are perfect balance. it takes no consideration on killer gameplay.
@ImNotBobDylan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234075#Comment_3234075
The stats that BHVR shared DO imply that Nurse is broken at top MMR. She has the highest pickrate and Blight follows not too far behind. Both have 60% winrate wich is high considering their pickrate, notice the other top pickrates (Huntress and Legion) have lower winrates. They also do not count games with DC which I think impact Nurse games way more than other killers. I actually don't think Nurse is broken but you are insane to think the stats align with this. What the stats seem to tell is a story along the lines of "Nurse is broken but hard to play".
the pick-rate shows how confident the killers are in picking up the killer and winning with that killer. the higher mmr for survivor are flooded with nurses and blights. a high kill-rate could be that the killer wins a lot, but it could be that the killer draws a lot(rarely get 0-1k). killer that get close to getting a lot of 2k's have opportunity to get 3k & 4k's since difference between a 2k and 3k can often be a single hook. Once a killer gets a 2k in a match, he is ever more likely to almost near guaranteed get 3k. depends on door rng and the map, a 2k can very quickly turn into 3-4k. killers rarely lose completely. they are often able to draw in worst case scenerios in many games but if they win, they're likely to win big which in dev kill-rate balance is overperforming.
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@HellDescent said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233681#Comment_3233681
Let's say you have dead hard. Let's say she misses. What are you going to do if she has soldier's puttee or if you're in deadzone? And the only thing different about having a mori is - no ds. That's it
115% m1 killer(no power) are easy to loop. Every killer is S-tier in deadzones. Don't go in deadzones as survivor, especially in when your injured. soldier's puttee is junk-tier f-tier brown add-on. nobody uses that. if you want to use iri head add-on, you use deerskin gloves+iri head with iron maiden.
1 ammo is too little currently for add-on. with 5 hatchets, you can potentially hit 5 health-states. with 1 ammo, you can only hit two health-states at most. 3 ammo is little strong considering that 3 hatchet is 6 health-states, but 2 hatchet 4 health-states. if huntress uses iri head, you can just stay injured and use dead hard. She loses more time in chases from missing/tanking hits then she does for using the add-on. it got weakened too severed from old ebony mori+iri head+infantry belt build that people used to run. now it needs a little bit of a buff.
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instead of looking how many generator are getting regressed, look at how many survivors on your team are progressing generators. you can beat the perk by having a single survivor on generators the entire game. As long as single survivor is on a generator entire game, you outclass the perk.
survivor progress gens at 400% speed and killer only regress it at 200%. the perk is a little bit like trading progression on 1 generator for progressing another generator. killer perk only lasts for 60 seconds. 2 and 3 survivors on generator far outclass the regression that this perk can do in isolation.
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@[Deleted User] said:
My vote is Pinhead. The secondary objective will always give some value, though its mileage may vary. Finding the box is massive. And his anti-loop is solid if you are good with it.
Dredge has always felt a bit gimmicky to me. I've never really felt too threatened by Nightfall. I can still usually hear him coming on my headphones. And the lack of red stain is countered by pre-dropping and playing safe. Dredge's anti-loop really suffers in areas where tiles are close together and survivors can chain them. And mid-chase locker teleports don't really catch you off guard if you look behind you and position safely when he spawns his remnant
i was going make a post, but this post would be 1:1 with yours. pinhead takes my vote for sure.
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@HellDescent said:
It's not that I care that much if it might be op, I just find it boring. Both using it and going against it
iri head is now worse then base-kit huntress. they need buff it to 2 hatchets. If survivor stay injured, the huntress has 1 hatchet while everyone is injured instead of 5 hatchets. There is also dead hard that tanks hatchets. so you have constantly reload while hitting your single hatchet. this was true before dead hard change but they over-nerfed the add-on since people used to pair this add-on with old ebony mori that killed you in 2 hooks.
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I think No mither is suppose to be anti-slug perk that has drawback that you can die through slugging if you over-use it. the current problem with no mither is that drawback of being broken means that killer knows you have no mither so they will never leave you on the floor and will only pick you up.
this leaves you a perk that only showcases its drawback(losing 1 health-state) but offers no positives because the positives never come into play. The default play-style for killer is hooking but if the killer gameplay was more dynamic and you had options to slug(to get kills) or to hook then no mither would be a much stronger perk option. current problem with slugging is that slugging is too much of risk for killer by default because nobody really dies to bleed out timers from slugging itself. you can be picked nearly indefinitely through basic teamwork and almost never die to slugging. I would argue that 99% of the deaths from survivor are 3-hook condition deaths. this includes slugging when a 3 man slug happens because killer will usually hook the survivor after downing all 3 survivors unless they are unable to do so. currently, slugging just is not normal play-style for killer. When the killer slugs, its often because survivor forces them to slug. Not that killer wants to slug. The other times killer slug, it is often more of panic button to salvage losing positions and to attempt to create winning positions.
personally, I think that no mither needs to lose its broken status effect because nobody will ever run this perk as long a negative like that exists and the new negative of no mither should be that you lose a portion of your bleed out timer when you pick yourself up with no mither.
The perk has side benefit of granting unlimited duration of lucky break but this hardly matters because survivor in the chase usually run and have scratch mark behind them. The perk grants a bad version of iron will but because the survivor can still be heard, these effects have little meaning. No blood-marks hold little meaning with scratch marks and non 100% version of iron will is still audible. If the broken status effect was removed, these effects might be seen more as drawback because the killer could notice these two properties and still pick survivor up because of unlimited unbreakable effect. I do not think these two effects fit in the spirit of the perk.
Iron will, Lightweight and Lucky break are suppose to be perks that remove sound, scratch marks and pools of blood. Iron will is currently only consistent perk out of 3 where as lucky break and Lightweight are mix-mash perks that in my opinion are not too effective in my experience. I still end up tracking survivors with lightweight on virtually every map. Lucky break is a bit more effective but as long I have some line of sight and can track the survivor movements. it generally does not produce much value.
No mither is just very complicated perk.because it deals with how people approach slugging in the game. Its same thing with unbreakable. these perks are better or worse depending how killer approaches slugging. currently, the killer does not split pressure very much and generally picks people up to hook them because hooking is best way for the killer to win currently. The killer cannot kill survivors in a timely manner with slugging & bleed out timers. The killer slugging and you getting picked up as survivor is more of second-chance for survivor. If there was more of middle-road towards getting rewarded to slugging or hooking then this would open up a whole new world of survivor perks.
The killer would need to see slugging as less of a loss of a hook and more of generating pressure tool that they potentially have a chance to get a kill from. Right now, that is just currently not the case in your average dbd match. Slugging is not really explored as gameplay concept in current dbd. its just vaguely there in bits and pieces on some killers.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233335#Comment_3233335
I agree with that, I think always going for the condemned Mori is a bad tactic but also survivors can counter it easily, her map mobility and somewhat of stealth even though it's not the best is good still and there's always a chance you play your cards right and everything falls into place for a Mori but it's unreliable, I still stand firm that she's a B tier killer though
i think the ability to counter the tactic is based off survivor looping skill and TV interaction. community base their tier-listing off gameplay and how the killer feels to play. gameplay is more important then stats. according to BVHR stats, sadako and dredge are at the level of Nurse, Blight and Oni but no one that understand dbd gameplay believes Sadako & Dredge are on the power-level of Nurse & Blight. the kill-rate stats just have little meaning beyond small patterns that occur with them.
Sadako feels bad to play irregardless of her strengths/weakness, so she is still C-tier or D-tier, Gameplay matters more then stats, As I said in at the end of my post, kill-rate =/ win-rate because I can 2k 50 games in a row(draw according to dev) but 4k 25 games in a row. my perceived win-rate for playing said killer is low but my average kill-rate is high. I just wish dev balanced killer more on their gameplay over their kill-statistic. Killer care more about the killer being fun to play then the killer being strong. The killer being strong is part of being fun to play, but it is not everything.
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@LastTourniquet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233369#Comment_3233369
How does co-oping generators that have been kicked help? Isn't that a bit risky? If your gamble doesn't pay off now you have 2 players that can't do anything instead of just 1.
If my teammates consistently were strong at looping I wouldn't want to bash my head into a wall every time I played solo queue.
So you want to make the perk stronger??
How does co-oping generators that have been kicked help? Isn't that a bit risky? If your gamble doesn't pay off now you have 2 players that can't do anything instead of just 1.
killer will kick generator that have been started. If a generator is 52.5% completed. the killer kicking a generator will set it to 50% which means you need progress 45 seconds of generator to finish it. Your teammate need to survive 45 seconds in a chase. It is possible but less likely. With two people, you need survive chase for 26 seconds. Surviving a chase for 26 seconds is not that long assuming killer has left generator. The risk varies for how far generator has been progressed when the killer kicked it.
If my teammates consistently were strong at looping I wouldn't want to bash my head into a wall every time I played solo queue.
Its not killer problem that your teammate are bad at the chase. He is getting rewarded for downs and kicking generators through the perk.
So you want to make the perk stronger??
Only vs SWF. The perk remains unchanged for soloq.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232279#Comment_3232279
I think you're misunderstanding my suggestion. I am suggesting adding base kit changes not perks that help when not tunnelling. You're right when you say that there's no reason to run these perks when killers could just tunnel. That's why base kit changes are necessary.
your missing my point. Killer can make dying light and SC: gift of pain base-kit in their loadout but why should they? Those perks suck because of their drawbacks and there is no reason for killer to run them over tunnel. not tunneling and just going for hooks randomly is actively detrimental. I could make less detrimental by running these perks, but what the point. they will not make a difference in my chances of winning. what does make a difference is tunneling and killing survivors out of the game. survivors each have 100% repair efficiency and there are 4 survivors. this means that survivors have collection amount of 400% repair efficiency, but 100% of repair efficiency is lost by the killer chasing a single survivor.
when a survivor dies, the survivor team loses -100% repair efficiency and -100% healing efficiency. so for me to not tunnel, I would need a perk that grants -100% repair efficiency and -100% heal efficiency. closest perk to that was thantophobia. At 22% when all 4 survivors were injured, each survivor injured 22% repair, so collectively, among 3 survivors, you incured 66% repair efficiency(88% in total). Not exactly -1 player but 3/4 of a player lost in term of repairing generators. Obviously, keeping 4 survivors injured is near impossible task so the number are way lower in practice due to up time. To reduce counter-play so that killer still get rewards, at one point the perk affected healing speed so the killer could use it to sloppy butcher to have 24-36% healing efficiency loss which is collectively ranged from 24%-144% -healing penalty out of the 400%(300%) healing speed. anyhow people bitched about forever builds and hit & run play-styles(spread pressure gameplay), so clearly people want killer to tunnel. Not the killer's problem.
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@LastTourniquet said:
I honestly don't really know how to counter this perk in Solo Queue. When playing SWF it makes sense that you can just say "I am about to be downed" and your teammates will let go of gens. However in Solo Queue you rarely, if ever, have any information about when the person being chased is about to go down. The only exception to this is if the person being chased is looping the killer rite in front you while you are working on a gen, which isn't something that should be happening in the first place.
The only semi-reliable counters I can think of are to either run Empathy (it has more range than bond and its easier to tell who is being chased) or to not work on generators that have been kicked if someone is injured in chase.
Obviously there are flaws with both of these:
- Running Empathy relies heavily on your ability to make educated guesses on when someone is about to be hit based on their pathing, it also (more importantly) relies on the killer you are going against not having a 1 hit down mechanic. If they can just instantly down someone then they might just down someone before they show up with Empathy. The only other solution here would be to run Bond + Open Handed, and running 2 perks to counter 1 perk also doesn't seem like a great idea.
- Often times there simply isn't any generators that haven't been kicked, or completing the ones that remain untouched by the killer would result in you setting up a 3-gen for the killer which is obviously not a good idea.
Normally I am pretty decent about figuring out counters for different perks and perk combinations but Eruption just seems like there isn't a good solution for the survivors (again, specifically Solo Queue). It almost makes me wonder if maybe Eruption shouldn't have an infinite duration or shouldn't be allowed to be applies to every generator at once (I am aware of the 30 second cooldown between uses).
Thoughts?
co-op generators that been kicked. Don't go down in 30 seconds when your teammate are working on generators.
co-op+strong looping neutralizes the effectiveness of the perk.
they really should make the perk have global AoE of 6-8 meters so SWF are not getting an advantage over the perk.
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@tippy2k2 said:
Someone on The Twitter made this point about Sadako and I'm curious if it's true.
Basically she's Opposite Nurse. Instead of a ton of people trying to play her and the noobs getting stomped brining her numbers down, only a handful of VERY good killers actually use Sadako so her numbers are far more inflated than you'd expect just because she doesn't have a bunch of noobs pulling her numbers down.
I never considered that in statistics. that could be true. I personally love playing sadako because its super cool to have a killer that earns a mori as she plays the game. She plays so different from other killers that it is really cool. Downing people with m1 killer is not so appealing but the whole play-style is fun. it feels like your playing totally different game from normal dbd.
@The_Krapper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232606#Comment_3232606
Yes very much so I tried to say this when she was released and was told hit and run is dead and her teleport was weak, this is why I put her at B tier and these people thought I was crazy, but her kit offers a few different ways to get the upper hand if used correctly, I think the people who brainlessly chase survivors for five gens without realizing it are the ones saying she's weak
Well some people put sadako as like worst killer in the game and having base-kit mori and huge map mobility does not feel like worst killer in the game. Its just that at base-kit, the mori mechanic feels not very strong with no add-on's as in. it does not work properly. 100 second cooldown tv's and 7 stacks of condemn. you need to 7 tv teleports that take 700 seconds. With TV's being only form of condemn build up in base-kit. its not practical to mori survivors at base-kit with 0 add-ons.
@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233030#Comment_3233030
Myers has an addon that allows him to instant kill survivors without needing to hook or down them.
As long as tombstone piece exist it's going to be hard for him to be the absolute worse killer.
i think sadako is similar to Myers. Myers does not have tombstone base-kit, but if he did, surely he would have way higher kill-rate because people perceive tombstone piece as unfair add-on. Sadako has tombstone piece base-kit but her tombstone piece is too time consuming to activate in a normal game with no add-ons, so her add-on are similar to J.Myer's memorial. They make condemn build-up faster. Given how different gameplay is, perhaps survivors are just not used to a killer that plays off condemn build-up over hook-states. Myer's play a lot different with tombstone compare to normal so he is unique in his own way when he uses those add-on's.
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I can't believe that my intuition about Sadako was indeed correct. For casual players, Sadako is top 3 killer. that is hilarious. I honestly cannot stop laughing at that first chart when I first saw this chart. Sadako according to these stats in top 5% MMR has as high kill-rate as nurse and blight. Almost sounds like comedy. I do not think anyone would say that playing Sadako == to playing nurse and blight.
the one killer that i was expecting to be highest was twins because they said they weakened twins because over-performing but I do not see it in the chart. I was expecting 80% kill-rate like dev said about twins given very low pick-rate %. Twins over-performing. ????????? Does weakening toy sword by 0.05(5%) decrease kill-rate that much??
I think wesker kill-rate is a bit misleading right now because with new killers, survivor need to learn to play against them. generally killer reach the killer's max potential a lot faster then survivor learn to play against the killer.
Another interesting pattern in first chart is that all killer that have secondary objective have way higher kill-rate then killer that do not. So the lower survivor's skill-level(MMR), the more a secondary objective affects the survivor's escape-rate.
->Wesker -> Has infection sprays
->Sadako -> Has televisions(Assuming condemn strategy)
-> Pinhead -> the box
->Plague -> Fountains
->Pig -> Jigsaw boxes
->Freddy -> Clocks
-> Dredge -> Locking lockers
I think this is because survivor that are less efficient at generators tend to struggle more with secondary objectives. For example, if you have trouble escaping normal killers to complete 5 gens, a secondary objective would reduce your odds to have even less chance finishing 5 generators. A lot of these killer power have some teamwork/team oriented associated element to their ability.
Trapper kill-rate is funny. His kill-rate is same in both charts. I think this is because trapper mastery is his skill-cieling. What the chart suggests is that skill-floor = skill-ceiling for trapper. While trapper may be better placing more clever traps, survivors are better at avoiding his traps. Perhaps this is perception why player think he is bad a killer. It is little bit like you never get better at playing trapper.
Nemesis has more backwards stats ever. He has higher kill-rate at all MMR but lower kill-rate at top 5% MMR. This almost feels expected. The extra health-state against nemesis's ability has little impact on his overall performance when the survivor does a poor job at looping his ability. The extra health-state for strong survivor is exponentially more valuable as they are able to extend chases and use the extra hits to their advantage. Longer chases leads to faster gens and faster matches means the zombies do a lot less. Still. the difference is only 1% but considering that all other killers generally have higher kill-rate. the difference looks a lot bigger.
Leatherface also has backwards stats. Killer with base-kit instant down tend to be difficult for less inexperienced survivors to loop because the survivor is not comfortable playing injured. This is also why Blight has lower kill-rate then Oni(Oni has base-kit instant down) but the two killer collide and have similar kill-rates in the end. Leatherface chainsaw becomes harder to use when the survivor is better at using windows and camping is a lot less effective when the survivor team is more efficient at the generator objective. The number is only 2%.
Blight has average kill-rate at all MMR and his kill-rate only goes up suggesting that he is not hard to pick-up but you gain a lot of reward for mastering him. Nurse has highest skill-floor meaning that she is hardest to pick up, but her kill-rate has highest leap increase when approaching mastery with her. Billy has high skill-floor but the rewards for mastering him are not really there which suggests underpowered but anyways. Same thing for trickster. All killer with low kill-rate that get significant boost from higher MMR suggest high mechanical skill-floor for the killer player to pick up but large boost in reward when the killer learns the killer.
The killer with backwards kill-rates means that killer power is less effective the more experienced the survivor team is. I still cannot believe this sadako 63% kill-rate and 61% kill-rate at top 5% MMR. Strong survivors losing to M1 Sadako. In the end, I do not think kill-rate express how the killer feels to play. Pinhead for example has high kill-rate but using his chains at loops does not feel very good. Sadako has high kill-rate but her overall stealth, limited mobility and condemn feels underwhelming to use for most players. Sometimes, the stats line up with a killer being underwhelming to play (Trapper) but other times they do not line up. I think it is more important that the killer power feels good to play over what stats say about the supposed effectiveness of the killer.
@hailxsatanxeveryxday said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232573#Comment_3232573
A percentage is a fraction of 100, so, for example, Sadako's 61% kill rate means that she kills 61 out of 100 survivors (I TOLD YOU! I ######### TOLD YOU ALL!).
So if you take that number and subtract it from 100, you get the survival rate for that killer, which is 39/100, or 39%. Look here for more information: https://study.com/academy/lesson/percentages-lesson-for-kids.html
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232572#Comment_3232572
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DKU76MJLNXKY/sadako.jpg
the killer can have 50 games of 2 kills and 25 games of where he 4k's. Out of 50 games that he got 2k. 100 out of 200 survivors escaped and the killer feels like he did not win the match. the 25 games where he 4ked were all commanding wins. The killer feels like he won 33% of his matches but his overall kill-rate is 66% since he killed 200/300 survivor. that is why kill-rate is a bit misleading compare to win-rate. it is what dev use to balance so I will not question it. Sadako has high kill-rate but may not have that high of win-rate. She is probably very good at getting draw-type games (2 kill, 2 escapes) though I am not sure.
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3231927#Comment_3231927
They can't adjust the maps spawns just because you picked a different Killer... that's just too much coding for BHVR to do (and it would be something that will break)
Yes I do agree that certain Maps and Killers are really messed up but that's apart of playing the game... How do you overcome that means that you are better then you thought (Well I would be) or you are worse then you thought (Happens to me a lot)
But general Map balancing would be better then making the Maps "Killer specific"
But general Map balancing would be better then making the Maps "Killer specific"
one map that is balanced for an m1 killer may not be balanced for another killer. for example these new autohaven loops help make weak chasing killers like wraith more relevant in the chase but blight does not need these loops to be stronger. his power is already balanced for the stronger maps. that is why i wish that the other killer had more oppressive powers but still remained to have minor outplay potencial from survivor side. wraith for example was really close to being a killer that could be good on all maps with his extra lunge, a little more on that and he might be a closer to blight, unfortunately whenever a killer becomes a little bit strong, casuals complain that he is over-tuned.
now the maps will be over-tuned or under-tuned based off rng and killer.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
BHVR has only attempted to reduce tunnelling through deterrents such as Borrowed Time and DS but it's clear that deterrents aren't fully effective as people were still tunnelling in the old BT and DS meta, which was a massive deterrent to tunnelling. People tunnel because it's objectively the best play. Compared to hooking everyone once to killing a person, killing a person will be significantly better as it reduces gen speeds by ~25% and prevents other actions such as healing and unhooking. Asking a killer to not tunnel is like asking them to intentionally play worse. BHVR should add an incentive for not tunnelling that helps killers win so that killers actually consider not tunnelling as a comparable option for winning so that they don't need to tunnel to win. An example would be if the killer hooks all 4 survivors (like Grim Embrace), gen speeds are reduced by 10% for the rest of the game. This would give a similar effect to killing a survivor, which would reduce gen speeds by ~25%.
the perk your suggesting already exist, except they're weaker with drawbacks. Gift of pain gives 16% repair penalty when hooking a survivor on scourge hook. It has two drawbacks, the first is that the perk only works on one of the 4 unique hooks (adding rng to slowdown) and second is that survivor must heal. The other is dying light. dying light has 4 drawbacks. First the obsession is immune to the effects. The second is that perk turns off when obsession dies. The obsession gains 33% increase in altruistic actions. The bonus is 3% per hook. you need 4 hooks to get to 12% bonus, slightly more then your recommend 10%. The drawbacks of these perks are too high for anyone to use them. Remove all drawbacks of these perks and perhaps killer will reconsider these perks in their perk load out.
It also doesn't address the fundamental reason killers tunnel in the first place, which is that it's necessary to beat strong teams and it's stronger than splitting your hooks.
as long as killer win more by tunneling over using these perks, there is no reason for killer to change their gameplay. if you make killer lose while tunneling and these perk make you win more by not tunneling, then something might change.
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@Veinslay said:
Maybe balance the maps and gen speeds. Playing against sentient survivors, especially ones on comms and coordinating, is basically throwing the game if you just run around the map fresh hooking everyone. Most people don't like losing like that. It makes the game much easier for survivors to win hence why they make such a big deal out of it. 3 or 4 escape easy against killers that play like that lol
the funny part is that survivor want you to play like that with every killer but if playing like that always make you lose as killer, then why would the killer play like that? Unless I am somehow rewarded on every hook where hooking different survivors makes me win somehow, there is not much incentive to not use those tactics to win.
@AssortedSorting said:
The thing is, that splitting pressure across all 4 survivors is technically viable. The only downside is that the Killer needs to be able to consistently down survivors in a timely manner in order to apply any pressure at all. And this varies based on skill level, and items/perks/killers used.
Also IMO instead of creating methods that empower Killers for not tunneling, I'd rather see methods of empowering Survivors for when Killers tunnel. Things like being able to absorb hook states that others have to give them more time via some kind of ritual.
I don't think the players that play killer are confident in winning every chase across all 4 survivors with good portion of the killer cast. Its technically possible but the effort required to win games as killer playing this way is like 3x effort and even then, a large majority of the cast is just too weak for any of killer gameplay to matter against strong survivors.
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@dugman said:
Continuing a series of threads on the least picked perks according to Nightlight, next up is The Artist's Grim Embrace (0.52% usage)
Grim Embrace - Each time a Survivor is hooked for the first time, you gain a token. Upon reaching 4 tokens Grim Embrace activates. The Entity blocks all generators for 30/35/40 seconds. The Obsession's aura is revealed to you for 5 seconds. You can only be obsessed with one Survivor at a time.
In principle blocking all the generators for a while is a solid effect since it's effectively extending the clock by however long all the gens are blocked. Time is, after all, on the killer's side.
There are two issues with Grim Embrace though that I think are keeping it from catching on.
- It takes a long time to trigger, and unless you're already doing well as the killer you might not even ever trigger it at all! For instance, if you're in a close match or losing, it's possible you just never get a chance to hook a particular survivor the entire match, and if that happens this perk is completely wasted. So this perk is on the verge of being a "win more" perk because it probably gives you a boost when you're in the lead but it might do nothing if you're behind.
- Even when the perk triggers, its effect isn't as significant as it probably should be given how hard it is to trigger it. For example, No Way Out effectively gives you 48 extra seconds to kill people in the match if you hook everybody once, and even if you only hook fewer survivors you still get a partial delay. In other words No Way Out lasts longer at full strength AND gives you partial benefits at partial strength. It's just clearly the better option if you're choosing between the two for delaying the game.
So I think Grim Embrace definitely needs a buff to at least bring it up to par with No Way Out in effectiveness. One possible way to do that would be, instead of making it all or nothing on four hooks, have it block the gens for 15 seconds every time you hook a survivor for the first time. Over the course of the match that would translate to at least 60 seconds extra time for the killer if all four survivors get hooked, but even if they're not at least you'll get 15 to 45 seconds to help a bit. (Also if the aura part of the perk triggered every time that could be a nice little buff to that as well.)
the main problem i have with these gen blocking perks is that they incentive camping the hook. Just look at current deadlock or old DMS Artist. I dislike playing against blocking gen perks as survivor. using them is fine, playing against them is not fun.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3231836#Comment_3231836
The poll clarified it and I assumed people would read that post.
Free perks= dwight , jake, meg, claudette, bill, nea, trapper , wraith, billy, nurse huntress, and all other "free characters" which require no purchase.
i think its better to modify shrine to give 2 premium perks(1 survivor, 1 killer) so you get 6 perks. premium perk is always perk that cannot be bought with iri shards. so myer's perks, freddy perks, pyramid head, ghostface, Wesker, Nemesis, leatherface and pinhead. for survivor, they're ash perks, jill's perks, leon's perks, laurie's perks, quieten perks, ada wong's perks and rebecca's perks.
Less people can complain about "pay 2 win" now regarding perks.