Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@[Deleted User] said:
Eruption is just ridiculous as currently constructed. In a solo queue environment, you either eat the regression and 25 seconds of Incapacitated (which is insane on its own), or you straight up can't work on a gen just because a killer has kicked it and it's not worth the time sink if Eruption procs. Either scenario is ridiculous. It needs a timer that starts on the kick, Incapacitated needs to go away, *something* needs to happen with this perk.
I do not agree for one particular reason. when a killer kicks a generator, for example a 50% gen that turns into say 45% gen, the killer has to down a survivor in very small time frame for the perk to get activated before being completed. Co-op counters the perk+strong looping.
for example a 45% gen has 45 seconds left. 2 people that co-op eruption generator can finish generator in 26 second with no perks. the killer deserves to get gen regression if he kicked the generator and got a down before 26 seconds. with prove thyself, the number is like 23 seconds. The further progression the generator is at, the more chance the perk fails to work.
I think only change that should happen is the perk should activate in an 8 meter area of effect for incapacitated to prevent swf from avoiding the debuff. the perk is named eruption, an explosion. It would fit the theme of the perk more.
Edit:
What I do find problematic is this type of gameplay.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82AooP7HA54I have no clue how they approved overcharge and call of brine as perks to make 30 minute long games. this is like dbd hatch stand-off with stalemates. the irony behind these games is that if killer wasn't doing this, the killer loses in 5 minutes. I wish there was better balance between 30 minute games and 5 minute game. Killer should be less reliant on 30 minute games to win and have way more power in the chase so they can win the game without relying on this gameplay vs strong teams.
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just a terrible stealth perk for killer. one issue with the perk is that killer does not know who is oblivious. the perk just has way too many conditions and it has inherit counter-play on top of said conditions.
a more simple version of the perk would be that when a survivor completes a healing action, all survivors go oblivious for x seconds. Nemesis has a perk called hysteria and it lasts for 30 seconds. Perhaps this could last 30 seconds.
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@Gandor said:
I think there is no saving grace for both dejavu and visionary. Both are useful only for beginners. Dejavu outclassing visionary in all aspects (speed boost, time when active/useful, which generators are highlighted, free vs behind paywall). The perk could only see some usage only if there would be a lot of new players AND the perk would be free.
Or if it got separate new effect (making current effect side effect, not the main idea behind the perk)
i don't agree. I would make the perk grant the ability to see skill-check dial in the future. for example, if a skill-check is 9 o clock, the visionary would have the number 9 on it when you work on a generator.
I also thought about the perk showing chest item when hovering over a chest before opening it and showing the totem's true identity. for example if it perk is haunted grounds, you will see haunted ground icon when going to cleanse it. the teammate will also see the icon if she attempts to cleanse it if you interacted with the totem.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3223813#Comment_3223813
That is all outside of my point, which is that overcharge was nerfed specifically because of the synergy, while making it that much more necessary. And the second half of that synergy being on a licensed garbage tier recent killer who is still waiting for her post release revisit.
i think you can use overcharge by itself. its just that for how fast dbd moves as a game, over-time regression is too slow to make a difference by itself. My personal opinion is that its win-more perk that only works if you stall the game down to crawl. I prefer generator defense perks that make lose-less generator less fast(automatic activation). I like being aggressive in the game and that perk is complete defence. not my cup of tea.
Licensed garbage tier was released in march and we're in October. from my experience, most killer stay the same for very long time in dbd. Don't hold your breath when it come to dbd changes to killer powers.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3224027#Comment_3224027
Killer perk being stronger is a given. No argument there. I was just trying to illustrate the point. 5 very strong effects can make the game. There are perks with strong effect that trigger exactly once - like haunted ground. And even if it's not meta perk, there is clear usage. Removing all pallets in 16m radius (depending on map) can be just as strong, but you would get 5 usages. As I said. On mothers dwelling - nobody would notice. On midwitch, this perk will solo make the game.
Also on midwitch - somebody finishes generator close to a chase. Suddenly there are 0 resources left for you. So you go down (you can't travel 32m without killer catching you - radius 16m is 32m diameter and on midwitch it's very likely you will have to travel full distance). Finish 4 gens and it's possible map contains 2 pallets even if you used 0. Without any pallets and with killer slowdowns (oc, cob, eruption and pr) it's very possible you can't finish the last one. The exception is if you have some strong window (but it's possible you will not have any).
What I am getting at is - the perk would be at the same time "meh" and broken. Not a good design for a perk. Blocking all pallets for limited time gives potential for waiting it out at some window. Hiding. Or taking a single free hit to move to a part of map with better windows. That's why I like no distance restriction more as a buff.
The perk has less chance to hit a relevant pallet on elementary school map. Its like using spirit fury enduring on elementary school loops. its just sort of pointless. On open maps like mother dwelling, you have more chances to hit relevant pallets. The perk is potentially a lot stronger on these maps in comparison. At the same time, the killer has less reason to take chases in places where no generator resides so the pallets broken might not matter in the long run if no chases take place in the area where the perk had an influence.
I wouldn't say the perk is guaranteed value but the current version of Claustrophobia would never bring more value for windows compare to perks like bamboozle, hex:crowd control or superior anatomy. With broken pallets, there is more of a chance to get value out of the perk from deadzone that the perk creates and it might change the way a survivor team would approach doing generators in a match. Not sure if killer would use it, but it would have more appeal than current version of the perk.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3223834#Comment_3223834
what else do you have on the map? Those ~3 strong windows between rooms? Ok. And then? The map is already very resource hungry and if you can't juice each and every pallet on the map, then you are screwed. And no - midwitch contains also some good (but still mindgame-able pallets) + 2 god pallets. Get a perk that destroys those strong pallets on both floors and you just took away at least 30s from looping. By single trigger of a perk. That can trigget 5 times. No thank you. I don't want your version of a perk.
About 5-time usage. Hell no. Say I had old DS that could activate 5 times. Or medkit that could heal me 5 times. You see the problem right?
But I agree with you that current claustrophobia IS weak and it needs buff. Just not your buff. It's like you took buckle-up and made old dead-hard out of it. Actually this analogy would be even good - because old DH did not really work well against laggy killers (huge map) vs normal killers (midwitch, the game, ...).
About 5-time usage. Hell no. Say I had old DS that could activate 5 times. Or medkit that could heal me 5 times. You see the problem right?
comparing survivor perks to killer perks is little weird considering that survivor have total of 16 perks vs killer 4 perks. the killer perks are supposedly meant to be around 1.5x-2x strength because the killer has less total perks. across all 4 teammates, if all 4 teammate run decisive strike, you have 4 chances to take old decisive strike. In retrospect, your more likely to hit 1 or 2 of them but there is 4 chances. a yellow med-kit with grey bandage add-on is 2 heals, so across 4 survivor using same yellow med-kit with 1 grey add-on, you have 8 heals. As far your argument is concerned, that is/was already in the game. Do not completely agree with comparison but this is what your comparing.
old DH did not really work well against laggy killers (huge map) vs normal killers (midwitch, the game, ...).
Dead hard had 70-75% usage rate at highest MMR, roughly 40-50% usage at lower-middle level MMR. It was used because it was universally strong against every single killer on every map.
what else do you have on the map? Those ~3 strong windows between rooms? Ok. And then? The map is already very resource hungry and if you can't juice each and every pallet on the map
when approaching this statement, I am puzzle for where to begin. I think this is misconception regarding pallets. A big reason why early game for virtually every killer is really bad is because safe pallets are proxy to fast gen-speed especially in early game. I think it comes from newbie perceptive where there is this idea where you can -waste- pallets but the entire objective for survivor is to use every single pallet and trade it for 5 generators. You see, it does not matter if the entire map 0 pallets when exit gates are powered(99%). you can use all the strong pallets at the start and because your leading in generator as compare to killer hooks, you use your 4vs1 advantage to close out the game. If you use all strong resources on the map and your team is efficient at completing 3 or 4 generators in 1 hook, it becomes a lot less likely that the killer can go for 11 more chases in the span of 1 generator remaining. that is why there is conceptual idea that early game is most important for killer. A common reason to early game being bad for killer is that generator are spread out and while that is true, its not defining factor to why early game is bad. Another reason that you get is that survivor all start as healthy so killer has no injure pressure. This is also true but not defining reason either. Pallets are defining reason why killer's early game is bad.
Supposedly, perks that give you an advantage for losing generators as killer is meant to be comeback mechanic for the killer. Its just that 30 seconds of blocking windows is pathetic reward for losing generators as killer. Breaking pallet on the other hand for losing generators, that reward sounds way more enticing.
The perk is unlikely to change, but it is interesting to brainstorm a version of the perk that rewards the killer for losing generators that a hypothetical killer might use in everyday killer build.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3222929#Comment_3222929
I don't like such perk. It would be so damn map dependent. On midwitch it would be meta hard winning perk. On Game it would be really strong. On red forest it would barely do anything.
elementary school pallets are generally weak so no reason to use the perk. on normal maps, 16 meter would be killing 1 tileset pallet, for example completing the shack generator would destroy shack pallet on most maps. The perk would be the strongest on The Game(Gideon) but The Game has so many pallets that the perk removing few of them might not be a bad idea. The perk only activates 5 times. Shouldn't a perk that only activates 5 times have a powerful effect attached to it? Blocking windows for 30 seconds is not really powerful considering that other perks perform a similar functionality for easier trigger conditions.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3223574#Comment_3223574
The reduced the start slowdown speed significantly due to complaints of synergizing the two. Which one you like better isnt the point, they approached it as a position to secure DLC sales rather than break up what was considered an annoying synergy.
overcharge is meant to be an infinite hex:ruin for kicking a generator that is applied by kick. its design to punish generator tapping from skill-check, but an added lose/lose element was added to the perk where by not tapping generator, you lose over-time progression which I find hilarious because one of the perk that specifically changed was because it had lose-lose element to the perk.
remove lose-lose element from 1 perk only to add lose-lose element to another perk. Overcharge sucks at punishing gen-tapping from super easy skill-check but the infinite over-time regression is super valuable for killer.
call of brine negates the negatives of overcharge since regression starts at 175% and reaches 300% for last 30 seconds of regression.
both perks fulfill over-time regression. Its just that two of them have strong synergy with each other. Eruption is the perk that replaced pop. The effective nerf of pop is that eruption does 12.5% regression so half regression of pop, but you gain 25 seconds of incapacitated which some survivor have complained about 2nd part of the perk being more powerful vs solo and very useless vs 4 man swf. Its just nobody talked about eruption before change because the perk was garbage.
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@AcelynnBen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3223681#Comment_3223681
i said the whole damn map was like this, i only took a screenshot of this because i had time
the first pallet in screenshot is unsafe pallet. you can mindgame the slide from the survivor. it needs no changing. the jungle gym pallet behind it is safe pallet. It is god pallet, you need break it when its dropped. pig has no counterplay to it. that pallet does need nerfs but who knows when bvhr will balance maps for killers.
One aspect that I have always pondered is the idea of map generation by killer. for example, if the killer is weak chasing killer like wraith-pig level, the safe version of jungle gym(that version) can never spawn for these killers. only unsafe tiles can spawn for them like T-L wall.
If the killer is a high-tier anti-loop killer, then all loops spawn as safe jungle gym-type tiles with very long pallets.
So most of the time, survivors would be playing the unsafe version of the map because like 80% of killer are incompetent to play on classic dbd loops while 20% of the time, they would get safe version of the map, e.g if you play vs nurse & blight, you would always get strongest possible version of the map.
its just an idea. point system on maps based off killer power.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3223134#Comment_3223134
It's gonna be weaker, that's why I want it nerfed cos its overpowered. I just want a rework that still makes it appealing for soloq players.
the current version is most appealing version for soloq players. your version of the perk is worse then old botany knowledge.
perhaps survivors should get broken status applied to them for the entire trial since healing is overpowered. /s
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bamboozle and superior anatomy already cover perks related to chasing survivors around windows. they do not have a generator requirement. The killer does not have a reason to chase around areas of the map where a generator is completed.
an idea for the perk that I had a long time ago for this perk was that it destroys drop and standing pallets around the generator that is completed in a small area(16 meters). I just do not see the reward in the perk in chasing a survivor in the area where no generator are present. Bamboozle and Superior anatomy are better perks for improving the killer chase against windows compare to the situational activation of this perk.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3222298#Comment_3222298
I said 300% is the conversion were 100% and if it were used with CoH/Botany.
Currently, if you were to do the same now and assuming both survs had CoH/Botany applied, I'd be two heals in 16 seconds, so healing at 200% speed (like We'll Make It), basically.
So it requires two perks, both survs to be injured, for them to know each other's perks... yeah, using a medkit/CoH is just much simpler.
200% is still huge number with your description. Surely such a crazy number would make the perk get used. I cannot be bother to go in detail for why the description is misleading but I think health-state type perks need grant full-health states to be worth using. even if the perk was only worked once per trial at 100%, it would still be better then the current 50% version.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
I used to believe Solidarity could be 100% no problem.
However, that was the old non-healing meta. The current meta is more focused towards fast and efficient self heals through medkits or CoH. With healing being so easy and effectively of no consequence, it has broken the backs of several killers such as Wraith whose entire kit is tailored towards hit and run.
Were Solidarity to become 100% now, it would be stupid. It wouldn't help solos too much, but against SWFs? You could get a CoH and heal two people in 10.7 seconds. In terms of raw efficiency, that's the same as if you were healing someone at 300% speeds. It's absurd. Nerf CoH? Just use Botany that doesn't even require a boon and has literally no counter, rendering the medkit efficiency debuff a non factor.
With heals that fast, even Legion won't be able to keep a team injured long. It's difficult to do it NOW, despite it notoriously being Legion's specialty.
what exactly is preventing that from occurring in this version of the perk? 300% speed. that looks amazing, why does the perk have 0.36% play-rate if the number look so amazing? with reduction of 33% bloodpoints on bloodwebs, med-kit are a lot more spammable now then they have ever been. its almost pointless to run healing perks when every lobby is 4 med-kits.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221938#Comment_3221938
It doesn't take "30-45 seconds" to secure a pallet drop or hit. If it's consistently taking you that long to do it I think you're doing something wrong.
And it doesn't matter that it's 1v1 vs 4v1 in what I'm saying because I'm talking about the total time lost by the survivor team as a whole. In the current system the survivor TEAM is losing 30 seconds plus 10-15 seconds on gens. In the new system, without Unbreakable, they're losing 45 seconds on gen. The systems are a wash between each other in that respect. So no, it's not relevant in what I'm saying that the game is 4v1 versus 1v1, the total time survivors lose on gens is the same regardless.
if you slug another survivor then chase another survivor. it takes approximately 45 seconds for the killer to down other survivor from healthy to injured. you will not have enough time to go back to first survivor to hook them. the extra 15 seconds does not help you in this situation. it would be better hook then chase the other survivor. the unbreakable change makes survivor self-sufficient. your getting less wasted time from the survivor team as a whole. slugging in 3vs1 will be near impossible in their new system which hurts a lot of killer that have trouble getting hooks.
If your slugging a survivor then chasing another survivor to get a hit or pallet drop which should take around 10-20 seconds. your allowing survivors to sit on generator longer because your delaying your hook. Its unlikely that 15 seconds makes much of a difference between old and new system. there is just more added potential risk if your pick up is delayed for too long compare to old and new.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221769#Comment_3221769
There’s a certain minimum total time lost on gens when someone is slugged regardless of how many survivors are alive. In the current game, it’s 30 seconds from one survivor plus 10-15 seconds travel from the other survivor. In the new system it’s 45 seconds for one survivor. That’s why it’s basically a wash in terms of time lost to the survivors on gens in a 4v1 setting.
And saying that the killer “gets nothing” for slugging someone for 30 seconds is false. That’s 30 seconds less total potential time spent on the gens. It also doesn’t necessarily follow that the killer “loses a hook state” because if the killer comes back to pick them up after 30 seconds they still get the hook. In fact, in the new system they’re more likely to get the hook if they come back in about 30-40 seconds if the survivor doesn’t have Unbreakable because it will now take them 45 seconds to stand up instead of 30.
It’s fairly common for me, for instance, to down someone, see another survivor nearby, and leave that dying person slugged for 20-30 seconds while I force a hit or pallet drop from the other survivor since I know I can do it and still have that dying person not working on gens. Slugging isn’t only for literally trying to bleed survivors out, it’s also a way to make more efficient use of your time while a survivor is currently temporarily out of action.
the killer spends 30-45 seconds on the chase itself. 45 seconds of pick-up time is 1:1 time investment between the killer and one survivor. As I said, the game is not 1vs1, its 4vs1. that whole unbreakable change is 1vs1 killer mentality change. If the survivor is successfully picked up, the killer invested time to get the down but did not progress his kill objective because you rarely die to bleed out as survivor when 4 survivors are alive. the loss of times on generator was going to occur regardless for what action the killer would take (slug or hook).
it’s also a way to make more efficient use of your time while a survivor is currently temporarily out of action.
not necessarily. distracting the killer to stall their hook is survivor tactic to extend hook timers when survivor thinks the killer will camp the hook. for example, if you distract the killer for 20 seconds and then the killer picks the survivor up to hook them, that survivor effectively has 80 second hook timer. a survivor distracting you is only 25% of the team off generators, the other 50% are still doing generators. it is tactic to leave survivors on hooks for longer so you can m1 generators then attempt to go for a last second save. this is why people that hover over with flashlights and pallet-saves are annoying for killer. even if they're unsuccessful in saving the survivor from being hooked, they waste killer's time while rest of the team m1's generators. the game is 4vs1, not 1vs1.
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@Seraphor said:
You want to launch it right on top of them, so that you spend as little time in the 'aiming' state as possible. Doing it this way not only slows you down the least, but makes it harder to dodge too. You can gain a significant lead on them this way.
the survivor can play mindgames with that though because you can visualize the white circle for how long it takes to travel for pinhead then walk backwards or spin around the spawn point of the gateway. chains have low reward for high risk in term of losing distance for missing then even when you do hit the ability, @Buily09 points out that the ability has high-failure rate from objects breaking chains and pinhead breaking his own chains. I like high skill-cap of the ability, but I wish the reward was perfectly consistent.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/349870/solidarity-discussion
I think I agree with you. 100% would at least do something. But it will still not be worth running in majority cases. Because it's rare that you are able to heal somebody while being injured yourself (everyone brings their own way to heal - especially in soloQ).
I suggested that empathic connection give you 100% healing conversation for survivors healing you and you were like, that is too strong. Dug makes a post on solidarity and suddenly you agree on a similar perk that I suggest as rework.
The expectation for when a survivor equips a healing perk is to get healed for 1 health-state. If the perk fails to do that, then there is no practical point in equipping the perk. the survivor does not get anything for half-health state. it is not worth equipping multiple perks just to get healed. It is easier to find teammate at that point and use a perk slot for something that properly impacts the game.
Resurgence and Solidarity would need to be 100% for them to get used. Reactive healing should be something like 25% max progression, not 50% current progression. survivors still use self-care over any of these healing perks because at least self-care fully heals you regardless of how long it takes.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221291#Comment_3221291
Keep in mind that in the current game it takes survivors 30 seconds to get to be one-tap from being revived by someone else and a rescuer about 10-15 seconds off gens to revive them. If you compare that to the new system where it takes 45 seconds for a dying survivor to stand up without help it’s mostly a wash in terms of time lost on gens. (Again, this is without Unbreakable which is what might need to be slowed down.)
that would only be true if the game was 1vs1. it is not 1vs1. survivor have 4 to 1 efficient for killer. for every second that the killer takes, the survivor have 4 actions that they could be doing. the killer loses time regardless of how long the recovery action takes. for example, if the survivor goes down in 45 seconds and is slugged. the killer spent 45 seconds to down survivor which 3 people were doing generators during the time. The killer goes after another survivor. 1 survivor is still on generators entire time while other survivor is on generator for 20 seconds. he spends 5-10 seconds walk to the survivor and pick survivor up in <2 seconds.
The killer gets nothing from this interaction because -30 seconds of bleed out is unlikely to kill the survivor and survivor saves 1 hook-state. In new change, the survivor does not need to go to pick up survivor and stays on generators entire time. the killer gets nothing in this interaction. this is why perks that cause slugging always end up being problematic because there is no incremental reward/punishment for being downed towards slugging. Jake's old sabotage perk that permanent destroyed hooks, flip+power struggle, buffed boil over, successful sabotage, hook breaking in the corner of the map and the survivor running into the corner of the map causing the killer to be unable to hook them all cause infinity loops because of lack of punishment for being slugged.
the main strength of slugging for killer occur when killer imbalances the survivors generator efficiency when slugging. for example, you have probably at one point heard of survivor complaining of slugging at 5 generators. This occurs when 2 survivor are downed, 1 person is hooked and another person is slugged at the hook. The remaining two survivors are unable to complete 5 generators when killer is camping hook. this is one area where slugging is strong because 2 minute hook timer is lower then 5 generator completion. A lot of killer that lack game-slowdown will try to force this situation because it gives them re-occurring map pressure.
this other place where slugging gains strength is 3vs1's. If a killer downs 2 survivors, the survivor lose 200% efficiency and only 100% of efficiency remains. the killer can be on par with survivor in term of gen efficiency to kill efficiency. as a result, you can comeback as killer and kill all 3 survivor even if none of survivor have been hooked.
I had this discussion with you. I think it was 3 or 4 months ago where you had position that you can slug for pressure and I had counter-position that slugging for map pressure is ineffective vs efficient teams. My position was that you cannot use slugging only to win like you can with camping and tunneling and that slugging is proxy to stronger camping. you can close out games with slugging but in both situations, slugging relies on survivor to play poorly. with new change, you will have less opportunity to punish poor survivor play. as a result, I dislike the change.
@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221291#Comment_3221291
What I don't like by making Unbreakable base there isn't any negatives about it. Unbreakable now you can only use it once but the new Base can be used as many times as you have bleed out time.
I have always hated that as well. going down as survivor should never be rewarding. the killer should always get something for downing the survivor and survivor should always get punished. your suppose to actively be discouraged from going down as survivor.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221134#Comment_3221134
Just to clarify, it looks to me like Unbreakable might need to be toned down but the baseline 45 seconds is probably ok.
i don't like the idea of survivors getting second chances for going down with no perks. the current slugging itself is highly abusable when 4 survivors are alive. there is too many second chances in current slugging so unbreakable goes from bad to worse.
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another pointless perk for killer. tracking for killer is a given. the perk makes little difference because default blood is easy enough to follow. the perk would need tactical benefit for the killer to run the perk.
a possible change would be to make the killer see blood marks over walls as an aura when outside of a chase in a 14 meter radius. I think main issue is that a perk like this kills the ability for an injured survivor to stealth. A Claudette player with spine chill would hate this perk with living passion. perhaps its best that the perk remains ineffective at punishing survivors for being injured.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3220996#Comment_3220996
Actually making the yellow mori offering which lets you kill the last survivor in the game be base kit was a common request. This new system is just taking that further.
I'm actually looking forward to the new system, it'll speed up the cleanup portion of the game when nobody is standing, the survivors have for all practical purposes lost the match, and all that's left to do is hook the last dying survivors and maybe get a lone straggler if they stand back up. I have yet to see a game from the PTB where the killer hadn't obviously won the match when the Last Standing mori triggered.
i thought finisher mori was just going to be cypress mori base-kit and offering being retired. I am not looking forward to new patch. dealing with base-kit unbreakable for killer is just super unfun deal with. Playing against efficient swf with dead hard/unbreakable/adrenawin x4 is already one of most annoying setups to go against as killer. that chapter is just going to make bodyblocking swf unbearable to play against with a lot of killers.
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@AcelynnBen said:
you know it has a been a problem for years, just you getting stuck in a 2 seconds animations while a survivor pats the gen and there regression gone
it might not seem like big idea when the gen is barely working but when its 98% , trust me it gets really frustrating
why not make it so when the survivors touch the gen for 2 seconds they get a skill check THEN it stops the regression
also even ignoring the gen is not an option anymore since wiretrap exists which can make the shack chases impossible because if u hit the gen they are most likely reached another jungle gym
and yes before you use your big brain and tell me use perks, you know...running the same perks over and over tends to get a little boring and since this game barely has the flexibility to run ANY BUILD on either side, trying to play with different builds tends to get a little annoying, mainly because i can't get any damn value
why not make it so when the survivors touch the gen for 2 seconds they get a skill check THEN it stops the regression
your describing a perk called overcharge. You can run it on every killer build to make it base-kit. gen tapping is not a problem.
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@Hannacia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3220566#Comment_3220566
You can't hear that gun sound as a survivor when theres chase music blasting into your ears. Its so quiet. ALL of the other ranged killers have sounds when they hit you with something. Huntress grunts, tricksters blades makes a loud sounds, nemesis tentacle makes loud sound. What makes deathslinger so special he cant have a proper sound when hes lifting his gun?
Also i said im running into trees while watching behind me. I'm sorry i cant watch 2 ways at once, and i dont know exactly all of the rocks and trees on the map.
I am just saying he does have sound cue. it sounds like sharp ringing bell. I do not rely on it but I am saying it is there. these killer shouldn't have sound cue. It takes away mindgame and prediction aspect of the power. The ADS is extremely slow. Struggling against under-powered killer is laughable.
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@Hannacia said:
Yeaah... no... I hate this killer with passion. 99% of them are using save the best for last which works well for him and it just makes him pain in the backside. He makes no sound when he shoots so you have to be running and watching behind you ALL the time. I usually end up dying due to getting stuck to something or running into a tree while making sure im not being shot to the butt.
Like others have said he doesnt need to visit lockers and lose his M2 power. His reload doesnt take all that long and he can shoot from small cracks and he is a very strong antilooper.
If he gets buff i want him to make a grunt or laugh or fart or anything when hes about to shoot so i can sometimes watch infront of me as well!
he has sound cue when he lift his gun. Its not deathslinger problem that your running into tree's and walls. Why should deathslinger care whether you understand the map layout or not?
@Tony_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3219991#Comment_3219991
He has a GUN a super underpowered GUN. Also cracks are not real advantage. He shoots you over the crack and at best has to break chain to get super long stun and a survivor injured and in a need of mend. At that point you could just get Legion and go on a frenzy stabing others. ,,Buff begging" cmon really? This guy doesnt need a whole REWORK, just a tiny buff that would compensate his ADS time and Bigger terror radius. I can see right thru your eyes that you have this typical survivor main mindset who wants every killer to be trash tier. If you want it so bad, whatever, but remember my words when you face a sweaty nurse and die in the first 3 minutes.
no rework required. just revert. nothing more. Once they change a killer, the killer stays the same for about 2-3 years. perhaps he will get wind-up add-on's and terror radius reductions add-on's. he already has add-on called Gold Greek Whiskey that reduces his terror radius by 8, just remove condition of requiring aim down sight. Wanted poster could be wind-up add-on. they weaken add-on m/s increase in his change.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3220024#Comment_3220024
Bond basekit is more then what SWF has. SWF has approximate position (like killer instinct). Bond is knowing precise position.
Also reverse 100% heal might be little bit too much. I think both of these perks should maybe give 75% but not 100%. But I might be wrong :)
well you said perk was useless so i provide suggestion that makes empathic connection a strong healing option.
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revert nerf essentially. I only use this perk when i am doing chest challenges in archives for faster chest opening speed. I don't really use it for med-kit. plundere's instinct+pharmacy is good for those archives challenges.
The perk would be much better if it gave purple med-kit out of the chest then I might use it over circle of healing.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3219830#Comment_3219830
I wonder what's wrong with this forum. When @dugman mentions useless killer perk, most suggestion are buffs that would turn it to niche-useful perk (like read furtive chase thread). But once it's survivor perk, then it's basically already fine and people just underrate it.
The perk is dogshit. Barely better then buckle up. Survivors bring a way to heal themselves or are able to play injured like almost always. There's no way that emphatetic connection will provide any real benefit if there are better ways to do the same thing - in this case CoH being 100% solution even if they slowed the speed to 25% (making it horrific 64s heal = killer perk).
So to fix it make it purely altruistic version of botany on top of aura stuff and maybe someone will use it from time to time in very specific healing build. Or delete it. Or make it much more likely to give skillchecks and someone might pair it with autodidact (another mostly bad perk)
its more that a perk that is based around seeing aura reading for survivor should be made base-kit for survivor. spending perk slots on aura reading is perk tax for soloq. If everyone had base-kit global bond, then this perk related to seeing people's aura has little reason to exist. 10% healing sounds like laughable bonus for healing.
I think the perk should be reworked to be a reverse solidarity where when survivors heal you, 100% of healing done on you is passed on to the user. that sounds more in line with idea of emphatic connection. Survivors healing you will heal themselves as full health-state.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3219661#Comment_3219661
You're probably thinking of a different thread about Crowd Control? I might have replied in one of those. 🤷♂️
And I don't know the likelihood or not of whether various perks will be changed. The devs tweak things pretty frequently. More importantly, though, I think it's fun to look at specific perks and such in detail and talk about them. Whether anything comes of it the discussion itself is still entertaining, at least to me.
The devs tweak things pretty frequently.
for perks? I would say given this year and last year. we get 1 major update of perk changes per year. roughly, 1 major of update on killers and rest is new chapters. Last year major killer update was the clown. this year major update was legion and... ghostface. Next year according to patrick will be Twins although given their slugging patch, this might be their update? Not really sure. the perk updates are pretty rare for dbd.
you definately already made a thread on crowd control. I remember responding to it. there was some interesting suggestions on that thread though i have no memory of what they were. hex:penti/cc/bf/dv is not that bad of killer build. you do force out 3 cleanses for hex:penti. Its just that you land up having no perks for using these hex perks.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3219629#Comment_3219629
I did Predator, Beast of Prey and Overwhelming Presence already. I actually don’t see that I did Crowd Control before though.
I did not see any of those perks. I am fairly certain you did crowd control. I think my comment on that thread was something along lines of the hex blocking all windows until it is cleansed. Either way, these posts regarding perks are meaningless. they're unlikely to get changed. DBD is way too saturated in perks. survivor and killer likely run maybe 20 perks in total. The other 80 perks are very much forgotten on both sides.
their perk system made more sense when there was only 8 killers and 8 survivors. now a days, there is so many survivors and so many killers that dbd suffers from perk over-bloat.
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@hatchetChugger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/349554/the-ongoing-problem-with-the-onryo
Instead of passive condemn, I think it would be more fitting for survivors to gain a stack everytime they are hit by her.
A second idea I had is that while demanifested, she may see the killer instinct of any survivors within a 16 m radius of any turned on TV.
Finally, I think there should be a finite number of times that survivors may interact with TVs/Tapes, thus making them similar to Wesker and Nemesis vaccines.
I think it would be more fitting for survivors to gain a stack everytime they are hit by her.
that was exactly my idea. its purpose was added consist form of condemn build-up for survivor when sadako is successful at the chase.
there is tons of stuff they could do to improve her such as removing her lullaby when undetectable in ability, removing directional audio cue from tv's, longer invisibility when manifiesting(de-cloaking), shorter cooldown on TV after using projection. I don't think they will change anything about her though.
mori-based killer are heavy taboo in dbd.
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@dugman said:
Continuing a series of threads on the least picked perks according to Nightlight, next up is Tricker's perk Hex: Crowd Control (0.74% usage)
Hex: Crowd Control - The Entity blocks a window for 14/17/20 seconds after a Survivor performs a rushed vault through it. The Hex effects persist as long as the related Hex Totem is standing.
The obvious comparison is going to be with the much more popular Bamboozle. On the plus side, Crowd Control does have two advantages on paper
- Crowd Control potentially can block multiple vaults simultaneously. Bamboozle is limited to one at a time
- Crowd Control requires no action on the part of the killer to use it. It just blocks windows automatically as survivors use them. Bamboozle actually requires the killer to proactively vault through the window to block it. Since generally speaking vaulting through windows slows killers down this means Crowd Control can hypothetically block a window a survivor uses that the killer then just walks around or ignores normally in a chase.
That's all perfectly fine, but then we come to the downsides
- Crowd Control is a Hex, so it can be lost mid-match. Bamboozle is permanent. But since Crowd Control is at best only slightly better than Bamboozle, it being a Hex is a significant downside relatively speaking. Why use a slightly improved version of Bamboozle that could be lost after a minute or two when you can use the normal version forever?
- You can't preemptively block a window with Crowd Control like you can with Bamboozle. For example, say you're approaching the shack and expect a chase to start pretty much right away. You can vault the shack window with Bamboozle and the survivor could be in trouble depending on if the pallet is still available. With Crowd Control that's not an option, you'd have to actually chase the survivor to the point that they use the shack window themselves and only then is the loop weakened. This is not an insignificant downside either, especially if the survivor is just vaulting and then running straight to a different tile and doesn't care if the window they jumped through is blocked.
In all the idea of an automatic vault blocking Hex is interesting, but in practice this particular perk just isn't quite strong enough, at least not as a Hex. For this to actually be effective, it needs to potentially stop survivors from using vaults before they reach them, not after they've gone through. For example, compare this to the more effective Hex Blood Favour. Blood Favour can get you extra hits by preemptively preventing pallets from being dropped before the survivor actually reaches them.
Overall, as with a lot of these low rung popularity perks, Crowd Control could probably stand a buff. Some possible ways to do it might include:
- Make it not be a Hex. Just have it be a perk that simply automatically blocks windows survivors use, no Hex totem needed. As mentioned above, that's not necessarily more powerful than Bamboozle because of the lack of preemptive placement so it not being a Hex could be a good perk without being too powerful.
- If instead you want an effect that is Hex worthy, one possibility would be to block both vaults AND dropped pallets once the survivor jumps over them. (No effect currently prevents pallet vaults, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be in the game with a similar graphic of the Entity putting up a spikey barrier prevent the pallet from being vaulted.) In particular this additional effect would be handy at smaller pallet loops since it would force the survivor to leave the pallet or get hit, which can result in a hit anyway in the transition.
- Another possibility for a Hex worthy effect might be to have Crowd Control preemptively block vaults that a survivor who is currently in a chase comes within, say, 2 meters of. The more frequent and more often this happens the more powerful that effect would be. With no cooldown or limit it would mean no vaults are usable in chase, which I could see being too strong, but if there were some sort of cooldown on it or other limiting factor to keep it a bit in check then this could give the killer some extra hits by virtue of a survivor heading toward a window and it being blocked on the way before they can use it. Of course it's still a Hex effect in this scenario, though, so ultimately it would probably get destroyed before causing too much damage.
you already made a thread on this perk. you should start naming some other useless perks like predator, beast of prey, overwhelming presence on killer side. Killer has long list of terrible perks of do nothing perks.
survivor has a lot of perks activate, but are not worth bringing because the reward for them is often low/insignificant to make a difference. you already named few of them. my prediction of next perks your going to name are perks like overzealous, fast track, visionary, deception, dance with me, buckle up, aftercare.autodidact.
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@dugman said:
Continuing a series of threads on the least popular perks according to the aggregate site Nightlight, next up is Rebecca's perk Better Than New (0.18% usage)
Better Than New - Upon completing a healing action on another Survivor, the targeted Survivor gets a 12/14/16% speed boost to healing, opening chests, cleansing and blessing Totems. Survivors keep the bonus until they lose a health state.
The idea of a perk that gives someone a buff after you heal them is kind of cool. And on paper a 16% action speed bonus sounds pretty solid! I think the reason this isn't popular, though, is that it doesn't increase the actions survivors are most interested in speeding up, namely gen repair and vault speeds. Yeah, a healing speed increase is ok, but 16% is saving you, what, a couple of seconds at most on a really slow heal? Normal heals with one survivor healing another survivor take 16 seconds so this is saving about 2.5 seconds off that. Maybe if the survivor you heal is doing a bunch of healing and blessing and cleansing themselves then it would pay off? 🤷♂️
The obvious way to buff this to make it more popular is to include either a bonus for gen repair speed and/or a bonus for vault speeds. (Not necessarily a 16% bonus for either of them but something.) This is why Resilience is a lot more popular even though its numerical bonus is only 9%, it gives that bonus to everything including gen repair and vaults. So if they made Better Than New more or less a Resilience for survivors who have been healed and that lasts until they are reinjured it would probably be kind of popular (and also wouldn't stack directly with Resilience since BTN only works on healthy survivors and Resilience only on injured ones.)
they just need revert the change. why not just make it 9% bonus increase to all actions indefinitely. The perk should not be able to stack so only 1 instance of buff should be allowed to work, similar to open-handed.
this is prevent survivor from getting hit, then healing, getting hit, then healing and stacking bonus from 9, 18, 27% etc.
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@shapeofmyheart said:
The problem is that people can't bring themselves to slug heavily with him, so they think his power sucks.
I see a lot of Myers players waste time and give up pressure by stalking, popping the power, and hooking the survivor they downed immediately. They usually run out of time before getting more than one other down max; doing this is the equivalent of not using the power at all and just M1ing all the time in terms of macro play.
He's genuinely fine the way he is. Here are some changes that could help him, though:
- Memorial Flower base kit because it does take too long to tier up base
- It's annoying the game won't let you stalk if the survivor is behind certain tiny obstacles like bushes and desks
- Stalk through corn
If the infinite picking yourself up update goes live, he'll need real fundamental changes.
his default base-kit is instant down is charge up then slug two survivors then hook as tier 3 expires. he is m1 killer, so figuring what improving m1 killers is like trying figure out what would make all m1 killer effective at the chase. Its more that you can 1vs1 his evil within 3 by using pallet correctly on strong survivor maps and avoid his tier 3 instant vault gimmick entirely by avoiding window loops.
one can argue that his problems are that survivor-side maps are too strong or that killer's base-kit for chasing is too weak. perhaps if they gave him coup the grace base-kit in tier 3. His tier 3 give him the boost in chase to any dropped pallet as m1 killer.
Soon, slugging will be a thing in the past once the survivor receives base-kit unlimited breakable with no downsides.
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3219072#Comment_3219072
Nah because hatch race can fail even if you can see it. Sometimes it spawns right near killer. Happened to me many times.
Sole Survivor + Wake up = 75% exit gate speed. With this build, you let the killer go find hatch, and you go for exit gate.
don't worry, your hockey build get fixed when team mmr for survivor occurs. sole survivor+wake up is pretty good for winning in their current mmr system(for survivor).
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3219416#Comment_3219416
Its not just most m1 killers, most killers have braindead designs and dont have much skill cap.
Sad thing is the ones that usually have high skill ceiling usually arent worth putting all that hours to master.
Why bother mastering artist or billy when you can put a few hours into nurse and perform better?
refer to @Aven_Fallen comment with that. X player finds the killer boring/unskillful/insert buzzword. Perhaps someone at bvhr hates x character, who knows really? killer get released as weak. killer maybe play the killer for 1 week, they do not have fun with said killer, they drop the killer and that is all there is to it. They get released as weak so you have no survivor complaints. Sometimes BVHR releases something that is a bit stronger then usual but casual player get destroyed by it. enough complaints build-up and the killer gets a change after 1 year or so. billy, freddy, spirit and slinger were examples of that. killer gameplay by default is braindead(low skill-floor) but their killer power can make them more skill expressive. its just that survivor dislike when killer power has large skill-ceiling.
its kinda like blight with hug tech. the survivor will just say, its just exploit. need fixes, etc. etc.
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@Seraphor said:
I absolutely love Dredge and they would be my main.
Unfortunately I'm stuck on their bloodweb at level 1 where I'm forced to claim Tier 3 Make Your Choice if I want to progress, and Make Your Choice is an outlier perk that is better at lower tiers.
I absolutely decimate survivors with my 40s MYC build.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3219479#Comment_3219479
Since when are killers rated based on using their power badly? If a killer played well is A tier, then the killer is A tier.
Is Nurse F tier because I suck at her?
nurse is not S-tier for everyone. if your bad at nurse, she's F-tier in your tier-list. it does not mean she is a bad character, but for you specifically, you. it is bad character. that is why whenever tier list are shown, its hard to say if the tier they have for the killer is based off their gameplay or popular opinion.
a general tier list is collection of many people's opinions on a character. often the general opinion tends to follow something called appeal to authority. it means that there is a certain player that does super well with the character, so even if the player voting does not do well with that character, people vote for that character's strength being strong because another player express the full strength of that character. nobody has showcase anything impressive with Dredge so he just falls under another mediocre stealth killer that downs you eventually but loses to strong teams(2-3-4 escape are common). limit skill-cap with limit reward.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3219346#Comment_3219346
Demo level is balanced? Since when?
Both Demo and Dredge are around C-B tier or so. Balanced for a killer is around A+ tier or above, since that's about where good survivors sit.
Unless you mean balanced as in in-between all the killers power levels. In which case yes, but that average is pretty weak compared to survivors.
Both killers are pretty weak. People get tired of losing just because of who they picked, cool or not.
I think killer should be around C-B tier if the killer is bad at using their power but should be A-tier if the killer is good at using their power. Dredge falls in category of being cookiecutter dbd killer where survivor skill matters more then killer gameplay. In other words, underwhelming killer. @FrostySeal post details dredge perfectly.
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@dspaceman20 said:
I can't believe we actually managed to have This Is Not Happening a perk that is so weak and outdated to be used in a build and be solid
the reason why this is not happening were not good was because skill-checks were unrewarding to land. Hyperfocus makes great skill-checks rewarding to land which makes hyperfocus more consistent. its injured condition is same condition used for resilience. landing great skill-check is generator progression, they added drawback to rushing generator with perks with injured condition.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3219416#Comment_3219416
Yes, we ignore the Survivor-Gameplay for this thread because this would be whataboutism.
Every M1-Killer has more depth than Freddy. Even the more simple ones.
i think a lot of killer in dbd fall into their skill-floor = skill-ceiling. not just freddy. I would consider like 80% of the killer to be "easy" and the rest of the killer to be intermediate difficult. I think dbd has like maybe 5 or 6 killer that you could consider to be mechanically complex which I would list them as Nurse, Blight, Oni(same as blight), Trickster, Deathslinger and Pinhead. that is just my opinion though. I do not think freddy is that much different then most of other killers, the skills for freddy overlap with like 80% of the cast. Its just that he got rewarded for basic m1 gameplay compare the other killers.
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@Jivetalkin13 said:
Let's say BHVR adds a new tier of add-ons above Iridescent. There is only one. What would it be called for your favorite killer and what would it do?
You can make it as stupidly overpowered as you want, but it has to related to the killer's power.
the iri add-on are suppose to be ultimate add-on's. killer have 2 add-on slots, so each iri add-on is equal to those slots. its just add-on in dbd are highly spammable so the term very-rare translates into everything being common.
when they weakened BBQ/we're gonna live forever, player cried about it. as a result, they reduce bloodpoint of blood web by 33% making everything spammable in both survivor and killer bloodweb in conjunction with black ward and pudding/blood party streamers. for that reason, iri add-on do not feel too special in dbd.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3219221#Comment_3219221
No, Freddy is basically Skill Floor = Skill Ceiling. There is no depth in his gameplay at all. SInce the rework he is the most dull and most boring Killer in the game.
The only reason he was popular after the Rework was because he is so easy to play and his Slowdown was really strong + he ignored BT.
so is every m1 killer would be considered braindead easy to play with that logic. I guess that means the killer should be weak because of how easy they are to play. let us ignore entire survivor gameplay of m1 generator's and escaping.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Correct, they do not work together because it would be too strong to have wallhacks on the killer within 30 meters of the gen especially when the killer doesn't even have a clue that it's happening. Imagine playing on midwich with 4 wiretaps and open-handed; you'd basically see the killer everywhere on the map and they have no idea that they need to kick gens to remove it.
Unlike Kindred, there is no real downside to having that aura reading. The price of Kindred is the loss of a hook state. That's a big deal, and is why Kindred + Open-Handed is balanced but Wiretap + Open-Handed wouldn't be, along with the fact that the killer knows exactly when Kindred could be active (not whether it necessarily is or not, but they know it's not doing anything to them if they're not near a hook, or if no one is on the hook), but has no such information for Wiretap.
it is inconsistent with the perk's details though. one perk affects the perk's aura reading while another perk does not. Personally I have been experimenting with repressed alliance+wiretap. its like my new favourite combo. you activate wiretap on generator then you block generator preventing killer from kicking it. so you get wallhack's on a loop while killer is unable to kick the generator to disable the perk. this is amazing for extending chases.... its almost doing more for chases then exhaustion perks. Wiretap+repressed alliance is such a blast to play. I hope there is no negative changes on that.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3218515#Comment_3218515
It's not that simple. She can't be in 2 places at once. When she's chasing someone, and a trap goes off, she has to tp to that trap to hit the person, thus dropping the chase she was in. That's detaching, which any killer can do. And y'all say she's so good at camping, but she doesn't have time to just do that. She also has to set up traps, and when the survivors go to hoo save, you're in another detach scenario, because if you leave where you're setting up traps, and tp back to hook, who's to say a survivor doesn't destroy all your traps the second you leave? You had to pressure the unhook, but you can't afford to instantly lose your traps you just set down, so what do you do?
STBFL can help, I know, but even assuming you don't have an aggressive obsession, it's still hard for Hag to down. She either has to chase as a 110%, or she has to hope that a survivor gets successfully hit by a trap 2 times consecutively. And even when you down them, there goes your web of traps against survivors who know what they're doing. This isn't even going into flashlights or maps, which can totally beat out your power. Survivor movement exploits can even beat out your power. They spin, and are already running even when you instantly tp, making your power pointless. There's no counter to that either, nothing you can physically do, except placing a trap in anticipation of them tripping another trap, which they're just as likely to see you plant.
I know how to play her, and she's not as simple as people say. In theory, sure. In reality, not at all. She was not designed to have an even playing field against people who know how to play against her, which is the same for most killers.
she can be in two places at once in the sense that she can be -hard camping hook- while not being directly near a hook. I think that is logic for why she is 110% m/s because they figured that the killer is applying double pressure from unhooking and chasing at the same time when hag is setup. there is just one problem with that idea. there is no incentive to unhook against hag. your better off leaving teammates on hooks on purpose and leaving them on death door. Its because being on second hook vs hag is not dangerous position for survivor. Hag's 1vs1 raw chase is really bad. She cannot close out kills quickly even when your on death hook because it makes her lose the game. to go in brief detail, in order for hag to 1vs1 you in the chase, you need place traps in such a way that they zone the survivor into the corner of the map where once they are in the corner of the map. you can create lose/lose scenario such that they are forced to walk through your trap where you can trap teleport into m1 or they avoid trap and you hit them with 110% m/s. The whole process of her raw 1vs1 chase is painfully slow. This is largely how you get your first hook as hag. In essence, you can strategically hold-w against her traps which is similar to playing against artist's birds. A chase like this for hag is nearly game-losing against strong team. this chase is easily 80+ seconds long just for hag to get 1 hook. This is why hag is terrible chase killer. Being on death-hook against hag is not dangerous because in order for her to fully kill you, she has to do +80 second chase of trap zoning just to finish you despite the survivor being on death hook.
When survivor know your weaknesses, Hag crumbles as killer. Some people do consider her S-tier though. I believe otz used to believe she is S-tier. the fact that you can leave people on death hook and rush generator against her while taking advantage of her weak chase is what makes her weak. The textbook against hag is to bully hag's early game, force her to chase you, do not let hag setup some 3 gen strategy, When hag commit to a chase, stall her chase out, when she is committing to chase, you use her slow-chase to break 3 gen which shatter her late-game potential. Hag has no global teleportation at base-kit so if all gens are spread out, She cannot make a web. When hag inevitably downs you, ignore person on hook, use the survivor's hook timer(2 minutes) to finish all remaining generators. you can very easy 3-4 man escape against hag if your team knows what to do. This is best case scenario vs hag.
there is worst case scenario for hag. This is the type of hag that persistently forces 3 generator scenario and never commits to any chases. This going to be long explanation for defeating this type of hag and it is main reason why i dislike playing against hag. you need to know how to trigger her traps in such a way where your just outside of trap range that when hag instantly tp, she will miss m1 swing. Dead hard is super strong against this gameplay because you can dead hard tp a trap allowing you to tank a hit. Both old and new dead hard are strong for this tactic. hag can tp and wait out dead hard so you do need be careful of trap position in relationship to loops. When you trigger a trap and hag m1's, you need your team to step on traps at exact same time as you getting hit as it prevents hag from tping to multiple traps and getting hits. this is how you destroy her web, then you can slowly proceed to heal and do generators while keeping her web at bay. Circle of healing is really good against these type of hag's. The other perk that is really good is prove thyself, you can stack on gens and ignore action speed penalty. hag committing to anyone in a chase is auto lose. At this point in the game you can hold-w as you get hit and hag will be unable to commit to the chase. you just need make sure that you know what is ahead of you in term of traps so you avoid the whole trap into m1, run forward second trap into m1 gameplay for hag. inexperienced survivors are usually blind to her traps and do not look at the floor markings. I think this is large reason why trapper has bad stigma with his traps being super visible while hag has this stigma of being strong killer. that is only my speculation though. These type of hag take a lot of teamwork and coordination to beat, so if your team is not on same page, its hard to beat a hag like this in soloq. I think your complains in regards to hag come from this gameplay not being effective against a swf. Strong teamwork defeat hag which is why she is not viable at super high-level(swf-level).
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3218587#Comment_3218587
I’m a little confused about the Onryo comment, she already is usually Undetectable out of chase. Reducing her terror radius doesn’t do much for her.
she has lullaby so technically she always has tr in demanifiest(Cloaked) form. Undetectable is just cosmetic feature for her power currently. he is saying if you do not use power, you gain undetectable without using the ability which actually entire point of the perk when you get 4 stacks.
I do not understand his logic because if you run m&a right now on her, she is 16 meter terror radius without using her power and this one is normal terror radius heartbeat, not the underworld lullaby(in the ability). it would be ironic that perk is legit better than ability. M&A itself is already better than current ability so that says a lot about sadako's power balance.
@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3218564#Comment_3218564
You can't "just be good at chase" same way as you can't "just break all pallets". The game is designed so, that it's only matter of time. There are very very few survivor games where you don't get at least 3 hooks (and most of those are curtesy of certain addons on Meyers). It's actually MUCH more possible to get 4 hooks before 1st generator is fixed. And having basically no TR (you can count on it for death slinger) will give you free 1st hit (like legion) with the difference of not being just basic M1 killer afterwards. I still say this would be busted OP perk in proposed state - even if used on it's own without M&A (16m TR on deathslinger is still almost free hit - even more so considering you don't really hear TR if it's on the very edge of TR - it's so silent that it's basically not audible at all).
Also this would be probably a must-use perk on onryo. The value it would provide to her having absolutely no TR when stacked, 115% speed and intermittent invisibility. Wow. Single buff to make her so damn strong. No additional buff would be ever required on her
Are you saying you cannot good at the chase in that opening post? I do not agree. I think the game is designed in such a way where the survivor can almost flawless the game and 1vs1 the killer if they're good enough at the chase. Most maps are strong enough for the survivor to be very skill expressive in the chase. in fact, this is largely reason why a lot of killer are not that strong. The survivor controls the chase against most m1 killers. The powers are largely placebo's that look like they help the killer in the chase, but in reality the survivor can counter them with skill neutralizing the effectiveness of the power. The killer power with lower-counter play have more viability though. In my experience from playing survivor, I still get a decent chunk of games where the killer has 3-4 hooks in 5 generator completion. the survivor mains greatly exaggerate survivor being -unplayable-. Every now and again, you get weak teams as survivor that are impossible to carry but generally, my teammate feel strong at the game.
Getting 4 hooks in 1 generator completion is a joke. that is just weak survivor team. survivor can still do 3 gens in 90 seconds. generally, when you lose as survivor, its mostly because of poor gen efficient+bad series of chases. I think strong teams can generally do all 5 gens in 3 hooks. in practice, a killer should never really win. the killer relies on survivor mistakes in the chase to win. The difference between stronger killer's and weaker killer's is that stronger killer put you in positions where your more likely to make a mistake. Sometimes its not mistake, but more of lose/lose situation that killer was able to manufacture and take advantage of. Stronger killer are really good at that and part of skill-level for survivor is developing strategies to prevent/reduce chance for those situations to occur. Asking the killer to get 4 very specific obsession hooks is asking the killer to do a lot especially against strong team. for that reason I do not think the perk be broken. it gives strong reward for when killer is successful at the chase.
Deathslinger used to have default 16 meter tr with monitor&abuse. he was not busted. at 16 meter tr is not that crazy. I remember at some point in time where I used to work on old haddonfield top gens. In myer's house, I could still vault the window on the roof tops as deathslinger was walking up the stairs. These generator have no line of sight. With good reactions, you can still avoid the hit at 16 meter TR.
a perk that counters lower terror radius is Spine Chill. Spine chill is hard-counter to stealth. it allows you to optimize your position at the start of a chase. It is strong general perk. I just do not use it because I do not feel threaten enough by stealth killer to need to use it. If stealth killer were really strong, then I would definitely be using spine chill. When spirit was released. there was a period where i used spine chill because Spirit at this point was really strong. Old prayer bread+Mother daughter ring was complete terror with gen grabbing build. that was a point in the game where I felt the need to use spine chill to counter spirit. I used Iron will+spine chill+dead hard every game at that point in time.
If your afraid of monitor&abuse+furtive chase, you can use spine chill to counter it. its arguably stronger at countering stealth killers than it was previously with its new change.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3218551#Comment_3218551
It does not "just sound fun". It would actually be busted. You can basically get permanent oblivious effect without the icon and no counterplay (so you can't destroy your hex like with plaything) for 4 hooks, because TR on 12m for 32m TR killer does not help you dodge the hit - more so if it's "range" killer (for sure deathslinger, but also demogorgon, nurse, clown to some degree and even wesker with his starting 40m TR to name a few that comes to mind right away). 4 tokens x 4m for each token is waaaay better then monitor&abuse. You would need to make the condition harder (e.g. remove stack if hooking "wrong" survivor - but this sounds really unhealthy tunneling thing so I don't want this one) or make the effect weaker (3m for each token is still very strong, but much more manageable).
counter-play is being good at the chase and not getting hooked. its also obsession perk and it only rewards killer if they hook obsession, so the perk is also inconsistent on top of that. even if it actually gave terror radius rewards, you would need run oni's nemesis to make it fully consistent, but its so many perks slots investment that killer has no perk variety at that point because the killer player has to fully commit his entire build to have a chance at getting lower terror radius.
The killer has no chase perks, no information perks, no generator defence perks. it would be so easy to dominate the killer in chase and genrush killers for running the build. wraith and ghostface has zero terror radius and they are not busted. Having low terror radius is not unfair. It would be decent reward for split pressure. I might actually have reason to hook entire team and you know.. not tunnel. Your probably going to lose against strong team for running the build but at least you'll have fun using the build while your losing for not running meta perks.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3217757#Comment_3217757
Just to clarify I didn’t limit it to 4 tokens or tie it to hooking the Obsession in my suggestion.
the perk is designed to be used with monitor&abuse to reduce your TR outside chase to 0. Its suppose to reward you for going after different survivors with end reward that you become a stealth killer in the mid-game after 4 hooks. the terror radius reducation is generalist so it works on every killer excluding killer's with lullaby effect.
Its just that dev play super safe with killer perks so they put condition that it only works in a chase to make the perk useless.
Its like peanuts with scourge:hook pain resonance. they don't want you to just -hook- the survivor and see your terror radius drop. too strong! /s. I would probably use this perk on some killers if it actually worked properly. The perk sounds fun.
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@ReviloDBD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3216553#Comment_3216553
What build do you guys normally run on Pinhead? Especially if you are looking for box and trying to take them from Survivor?
lethal pursuer I know.. also Hoarder or not?
read OP post. dead man switch and hoarder. the other perks are up to you. He has global version of pain res+DMS in his kit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAR7SAi7SmU otz has guide where he explains how the box spawn logic works. you can watch video between 2:00 and 4:50 to understand how the box works. its not imbalanced. survivors are just stupid vs his ability as usual.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3218393#Comment_3218393
I've never understood why most people hate going against Hag. You trip traps. They don't even injure you guaranteed like Trapper's.
its her camping. her camping not fun to play against. she is like best proxy camper in the game because her traps allow her to be in two places at once which is at the hook and in the chase. Very similar to twins victor hook gameplay. She is not really good at prevent unhooks but she is really good at hook trading. she is not unplayable but i dislike playing against her and I find her too simple to play. her gameplay way too 1 dimensional.
her mechanical skill is among lowest in the game. you place traps, survivor run into them, you press tp and hit them. in term of using ability, not much complexity. her complexity comes from how you place traps.
They'll get hit by a trap they weren't expecting, then hold forward to the other side of the map where you obviously haven't had time to trap. Then heal up, come back, and start screwing up your traps again.
I think your misunderstanding how hag's gameplay loop works. Hag places traps in circular web-like fashion because entire idea behind her trapping system is that you hit someone, they run forward and as they run outwards, you place traps ahead of the survivor such that when they run forward, they hit a trap as you recover from basic attack swing. it gives you a pseudo 2 hit combo. Its just that better player understand her tactic so there are tactics to counter her gameplay and because of how 1 dimensional she is, she is too predictable of a killer such that when you know how to counter her strategy, she is not very effective. she just destroys weak teams that have lack of coordination. Another soloq stomper if your teammate are bad.
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@hiken said:
people really dont like the idea to close the gap between SWF who will have this forever and solo huh? impressive. how do u want a fairer game if u dont want to make it fairer and more equal? how do u want strogner killers if survivors keep getting weaker and weaker and they need the almight perk called Discord to compensate?.
dev will figure out that making soloq survivor have -2 perks slots on windows and kindred is silly. I would prefer global bond because its more consistent aura reading but their big issue is that they have a lot stuff in the game that has aura-reading for teammates. they would have a lot of perks to rework along with key item that has several aura-reading add-on for teammates. The change would be way better then unbreakable base-kit.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3216624#Comment_3216624
No, I don't think so. Midwich, Shelter Woods, and RPD aren't killer sided.
Midwich's "killer-sidedness" comes from the fact that the RNG is limited. The breakable walls and a few other things are randomized, but the map is mostly uniform in its generation. That doesn't mean that there aren't strong pallets there. Y'all call a lot of the pallets weak, but you can barely get someone there with Bloodlust. Just be patient, like the killer has to be, and only drop the pallet once the killer commits to going through it.
Shelter Woods has always been overhated. It's still a big map, it just doesn't have a broken main building or broken loops all next to each other like literally everywhere else has. The rock loops are there when you've used up the jungle gyms, if ever, and you can play them just as I've said above, since they aren't really weak pallets if you play them right. Most killers can't even use their ability at rock loops.
Maybe it's Sadako's power that should be changed then. Make her condemned not go through walls or at least not from a different floor. Again, y'all find that one niche build of hers and call her super strong. She needs a pink add-on for it to work. And Legion, are we really complaining about them? So what if they can use their power to break dropped pallets? They still go through fatigue to get out of it. Stop trying to stun Legion out of their power and just take the hit, because they can't down you with their power, and you get a sprint burst. Other killers can get through pallets quick, if you drop the pallets. You can bait that you're gonna drop it to get another go-around. They get through pallets really quick because you let them. Even if they do break all the pallets, why aren't all the gens done by that point?
New RPD is just as big and survivor-sided as it was before. You lost 1 dumb god window. Everything else is pretty safe pallets, god pallets, strong windows, and awkward gen placement (for the killer). You get the middle gens and the killer can't win, because the map is split.
Midwich, shelter woods and RPD are all killer-sided. RPD pallets and Midwich pallets are all mostly unsafe. The killer can mindgame at least 75-80% of the pallets. Shelter wood is mainly killer sided because there is just not enough pallet resources on that map. its one of the maps where killer can just brute force every pallet and the survivor is almost guaranteed to run out of pallets. Its like only map in dbd where there is not enough pallets. The other map that has this same problem is Wretched shop. I kinda hope that they added a lot more filler pallets to shelter wood and Wretched shop. both of those maps are really not enjoyable for survivor because it just sucks low amount of pallets to loop as survivor.
On surivvor sided maps, the killer is hard to play. These maps on the other hand are like christmas in comparison to playing farm maps, garden of joy, badham, eyrie crows, red forest maps and so on. Unfortunately for killer, survivor tends burn these map offering a lot, so you better just get used to playing on these maps and forget about any of those maps.