Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/354364/proposed-changes-to-slowdown-perks
My thoughts are that gen regression meta is overdue to be nerfed. It's unhealthy that killers can realistically prolong the game to 30 minutes. That getting out of 3gen is now absurdly hard and basically impossible in soloQ that does not immediately know what to do.
what do you suggest killers run to have a chance at winning through hooks?
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261051#Comment_3261051
it is still a very very narrow window. yes that's playable but you really shouldn't have to pull it off since dhing under pallet is super common and is currently pretty free.
edit: shouldn't have to pull it of because you already read the dh
at max distances, its free because if you swing and the survivor dead hard's, if you hit them, they get sprint burst and do not need to use the pallet. Suppose you swing and end up missing them on purpose, they are only stuck in dead for 0.5 seconds. As a result, the survivor get free pallet drop and free pallet stun from recovering on miss swing. it is suppose that if you miss on purpose, the survivor is stuck in dead hard dash and cannot put down the pallet. if it was 1 second, then survivor would be stuck in dead hard motion for full 1 second for missing their dead hard. it would act like recovery frames on missing parry in other games. there is no recovery frames in dbd because you cannot re-dead hard from exhaust effect which is main purpose of recovery frames in those other games.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260994#Comment_3260994
it's not even missed basic attack cooldown, i'm chasing a survivor "sniffing their neck", they get to a pallet and i know they are likely to dh under the pallet which is what they always do and is ideal; they do, but they drop the pallet right after so i don't get anything even after reading it and not swinging at all.
sure, that just you not understand when dead hard ends. your not reading motion for when survivor drops the pallet. bad reactions. technically a way to resolve this problem is to highlight the survivor in white aura. I believe clown has an iri add-on called Tatoo middle finger, It makes you glow in white. You could make it that dead hard glows in white so killer knows when dead hard ends, but that takes away skill in knowing when dead hard ends which is a little bit of hand-holding killer mechanic. I believe dredge also has this mechanic for his nightfall where survivor glow then return to normal colors when nightfall ends.
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@NerfDHalready said:
i think dh is fine as is now. they only need to add a buffer for dropping pallets after using it. i didn't really understand why they buffed the animation time, it was perfect for this reason
yeah I don't really understand it either. the intended idea was that if a killer does a max distance swing and survivor press dead hard, the killer could purposely miss their swing but survivor would be stuck in dead hard animation, thus unable to drop the pallet. right now if killer misses a swing and survivor dead hard, their dead hard expires too quickly compare miss cooldown, so survivor can still drop pallet in specific situations even if killer correctly read the dead hard. If the pallet is safe pallet/god pallet, then the killer is forced to break it which creates the old dead hard for distance into pallet problem. The lower duration of dead hard means that survivor does not get punished for "missing" dead hard.
obviously, the problem stems from god pallets and safe pallet existing(force pallet breaks) but that's another topic altogether separate from dead hard itself.
Personally I don't mind dead hard right now so its not a concern but it is questionable for the killer to make a good read but not be able to capitalize off the bad survivor read. I considered drawing picture of this problem but I hope words speak for themselves.
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I agree on survivor generator efficiency math and killer kill-efficiency math but I'm not sure if I agree with killer perks & survivor perk aspect.
The killer perks that induce slowdown to the game are entirely based around the idea that if the survivor fails the chase, the survivor is unable to complete the objective. It creates sense of dynamic objective where the difficult of completing generators is based around killer's skill in the chase.
Without killer slowdown perks, there's basic problem where your running a race and the killer is turtle at the race and the survivor are the fox. The fox simply completes the race faster then turtle does. As a result, the turtle can never win. In your shortest killer math calculation, your shortest match as killer is 9 minutes but shortest survivor generator completion time is roughly 4:30 seconds. I would say on average survivor win-rate time ranges between 5-6 minutes in the most efficient generator objective time possible. 9 minutes vs 5-6 minutes is severe disparity. if you take into account the survivor playing the -end-game hook-trading game-, you can push their total match time to 9 minutes as well. The survivor does not need to engage in this end-game part, so they can simply take 3-escape 1 death.
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The survivor progression perks are interesting because they create dynamic objective time for the killer. current issue with survivor is that survivor can consistently finish all 5 generators assuming normal-chase killer gameplay(game 2) which is 11-18 minutes according to your math. Doing generators currently does not take much skill, any survivor that can complete normal skill-checks will be as much of threat to the killer as any other survivor. With consistency that survivor can progress generators, they can on average account to 5-6 minutes generator every single game. Keyword is consistency. Your consistently making it impossible for the killer to win. For next part, I am just going throw some random numbers as estimated guess. Suppose generator were 120 seconds but each great skill-check was 3-4%. Now you create variation where fastest generator time can be 6-12 minutes. this gives survivor control in their ability to speed-run the game but their ability to speed-run the game is inconsistent meaning that killer has more average-time to chase because not every survivor is as threatening at generators as they are now.
that is kinda of what old hex:ruin and hyperfocus is aiming at. its approaching the problem from a different angle. Its giving survivor the ability to produce fast games, but not producing fast games consistency that the killer can never win unless the survivor is perfect at the objective.
My thoughts on this are that its question of whether survivor should gain artificially difficulty such that their ability to produce unwinnable games is near impossible. The other option is killer producing unwinnable games for the survivor by activating some variant of generator type perks as a result of strong chasing(failure for survivor to succeed in the chase). Its survivor control game vs killer-control game type problem.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260389#Comment_3260389
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260391#Comment_3260391
This unfortunately ignores the scenario in which the killer is good at the game, has game sense, and doesn't let survivors attack a 3 gen early. It takes very little effort for a high level killer player to induce a 3 gen with the right build. Run Corrupt/Agi, hook the first down inside or near the Corrupted gens that just now unblock. It's almost always a 3 gen in some form.
It's way too easy to hold a 3 gen right now with Eruption/CoB. The killer has to play really poorly to lose
i mean currently, only two perks that give slowdown that are worth bringing on killer are deadlock and pain res. other than that, there's no other perks worth bringing that are going to make much of a difference for killer in term of slowing gens down for the killer to go for many chases. All gen kicking perks encourage 3 gens and these are only perks right now that do anything because every other killer perk has been released as dogwater/nerfed. Your either playing deadlock/Pain and going for hooks accepting that your going to lose vs a strong team or your playing OC/COB/Eruption and running 3 gen strategy every single game which is unbelievably boring but effective.
some killers i noticed run mix of this, they run eruption+jolt+pain res because eruption only gives 10% regression and jolt add 8% regression, so two perks make up old pop goes weasel while pain res is only perk that rewards killer for hooking. After that, you see BBQ for info(to go for hooks), stbfl(because many killer have trash-level lethality towards health-states(COH problem) and base-kit BT/OTR problem) or corrupt/No way out for late/early game free hook. Its a bit funny because no way out only grants 1 hook at the end of the game while corrupt only grants 1 free hook early game, though in my opinion, you'd be better off running lethal pursuer then current corrupt intervention.
3 gen balance has always been problem in dbd, but it was not exploitable because killer did not have over-time regression perks to undo damage. the survivor could -gen-tap- and win the war of attrition. In the ptb, they're adding a new perk called Potential Energy which has potential to be broken but because its numbers and mechanics are extremely safe, it won't see much use due to the perk needing to be stacked 4 times to gain effectiveness and its associated drawbacks. Long-story short is that its not killer fault that bvhr does not invent perks to incentive chasing/hooking instead of gen-camping.
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All effects of Aftercare are reset upon being hooked by the killer. Erase drawback of the perk would be my suggestion for the perk buff. its main reason why I do not use this perk.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3259649#Comment_3259649
I'm literally saying to buff base regression up to what Ruin used to be like, which is an overall killer buff like babes I am begging you to use a calculator and some critical thinking
you can use overcharge. it applies hex:ruin after 30 seconds to a gen. it buffs base-kit regression to 200%. I am not sure what your complaining about? Personally for me, I do not like gen kicking perks because they're not time efficient for me. I wish there was a perk that kicked generators for me automatically and applied my perks without me having to kick generators.
The closest perk to that is oppression but it does not apply the gen kicking perks. If there was a perk that automatically kicked the nearest generator for basic/special attacking a survivor with short/medium cooldown, I would use these perks a lot more.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3259378#Comment_3259378
Wanna know something? I did the math.
Thana at 22%, assuming no one touched a gen until everyone was injured and never healed, gave the killer about 127 seconds of slowdown. Not bad.
What does Deadlock do by existing? It procs 4 times, each being 30, so 120 seconds... by existing.
The more I learn, the more it irks me.
Look like you still have not gotten past the loss of the perk. Deadlock is pretty good. Its major issue is that survivor can counter the perk by co-op generators. If the survivor is not near generator that is blocked, then the perk has no value. an empty generator that is blocked is the same as a generator that is not being worked on. thana was pretty decent perk at 5.5%. it's gone now though. I hope you get over it.
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3259389#Comment_3259389
For that two weeks or so when Thana was untouched after the patch, it was the most frustrating time playing dbd. Not because of just Thana, but every killer running quad slowdown every single game. Thana was everywhere suddenly, and that was the problem.
Thana+pentimento had gen times at roughly 165 seconds. One Jolt on that gen removed 25 seconds of progress. It was stupid. And anyone advocating to revert this perk absolutely didn't touch a gen playing survivor during that time.
The Thana change is one of the few times the devs have actually reworked something to where killers might possibly have to reconsider tunneling someone out of the game as fast as possible. Because one less survivor basically means your perk stops working. We absolutely need more changes like this, not less.
its called cleansing the pentimento totem.
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3258867#Comment_3258867
what about me strikes you as professional looooooooool im a dumbass. either way, when your argument is "the counterplay to nurse is hope they are not good" it comes off a little silly is all.
its funny that knight's play-style with the guards is exact issue I have with nurse. I dislike mechanics that award the killer player with a free hit with the option to outplay from other side. Its why I dislike all versions bloodlust 1/2/3 for same reason.
I wish dbd was more about mindgames and the ability for either side to make a good skilled outplay. I think lose/lose gameplay is bad for both sides. survivors have safe pallets and god pallets which create lose/lose where if you break the pallet, the survivor get to next pallet but if you do not break it, some pallets have no mindgame opportunity and then you have killer powers to try rectify this problem such as Nurse and Artist/Knight style anti-loop.
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@Phasmamain said:
Boil over is just kinda a stupid perk. It’ll either be obnoxious and too strong or obnoxious and useless
its because slugging not balanced in dbd. the counter-play boil over is suppose to be slugging but leaving survivors on the floor is punishing for the killer because of how improbable you are to die on the floor in normal gameplay.
As a result, boil over is either godlike or completely ineffective because its balance relies on how effective or ineffective slugging(leaving on the floor) is. Decisive strike has same symptoms of same problem.
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@Vampwire said:
I think it's the only way to actually balance the game. As long as theres a disparity between the two it will never be balanced.
For example: Eruption is a nightmare for solo-que players but it's not a problem for swf.
Another one, which is just gameplay itself, would be two survivors committing to a save. They have no way to tell who's going to do what, so they put two people at risk of being caught and lose time on gens that they didn't need to lose. There is legitimately no way for them to tell and they lose time for that sole reason.
and ANOTHER example would be Pinhead. The box isn't hard to handle for swf, but it's hard for solo because they can't coordinate.
SWF balances the survivor gameplay by allowing them to coordinate properly and react to what the killer does as a team. When they would normally die because of this inability to communicate. While a SWF could easily recognize and prevent a 3 gen, a solo que team could not.
Communication is a key part of the survivor experience that just isn't in the game. Despite what many killers say, it makes the game balanced. And until we have it as a base feature of the game all the strategies only SWF can pull of will never be addressed. Perks, mechanics, maps, killers, all of them will not be designed around those strategies as long as survivors cannot communicate.
just leads to massive extremes at higher-level where the killer stomps or has equal game vs swf if their killer is good otherwise the killer get stomped by swf.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3258216#Comment_3258216
I think many people underrated her because she is also a test for killer skill at the same time. If the survivor never cleanse you basicly play a m1 killer. Sure you only need one hit but many killer player dislike m1 looping even if it's only one hit. That's why killer like nurse blight and now weaker are popular
Its not very interesting playing against survivor that shift-w for 30 seconds before the chase and then pre-drop pallets+rush generators. that is why its not fun to play m1 killers. Shift-W strategies for survivor are too powerful for m1 killers to be relevant. this is not true test of skill for plague. its test of survivor skill. Nurse, Blight and Wesker are played because these strategies are less effective vs them. The survivors need to be more skilled at holding-w vs them compare to plague.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I will die on the hill that she's consistently the most underrated killer on the roster. She has *a lot* in her kit. I think where some players struggle with her is in the M1 phases. If you're not a strong M1 killer, survivors can get away with not cleansing against you. A really good Plague will have survivors cleansing out of fear because they aren't looping her either and can't afford to stay Broken.
I think plague is infinity tier 3 myer's on steroids. I think she's best killer in term of being #########-test for survivor skill-level. I would say what marks a good survivor is being able to play the entire game injured vs a m1 killer and optimize generator efficiency. I think Infinity tier 3 myers and plague are good entry points for testing the survivor skill-level. I never understood why m1 killers with unlimited instant down capacity are underrated.
Its like saying legion is underrated because he can injure the entire team.
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@Clockwork_Enigma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3257679#Comment_3257679
I also compared him to Plague, Huntress and Deathslinger with very similar arguments on them.
It just doesn't seem to make sense that Trickster should be slower to begin with when his Power is weak enough to justify a higher movement speed. And a 5% movement speed change would do a whole lot of good for him, but it wouldn't cause him to be oppressive overnight.
And to anyone below or above that think him being 110% is justifiable, please consider the fact that despite his mid-range ability:
- He has slow activation and deactivation time on his power (0.35/1.25 seconds to enter/exit).
- He still moves at 3.86m/s down to 3.68m/s while using his Power.
- He still needs 6 shots to get 1 health state in.
- When using his Power, he is literally extending the amount of time he and the Survivor need to rotate around the loop until an interaction occurs; these interactions include either causing an injury, down or pallet drop from the Survivor's end.
Does this sound like a 110% Killer to you?
He still moves at 3.86m/s down to 3.68m/s while using his Power.
this statistic right here is what makes trickster feel slow. Because he has to hit 6 knifes, he shoots around 10-15 knifes in a volley for every health-state he inflicts although this number can go up or down depending on survivor's skill-level in movement(this can go upwards to 20-25). Shooting 10-15 knifes takes a lot of time and make LOS incredibly easy against trickster.
Trickster's slow movement when holding knifes drains his skill-ceiling and puts ton of power in the survivor's hands. He has to spend like 10-15 seconds in throwing mode for what other ranged killers spent 5-6 seconds.
With Huntress, Deathslinger and Red puke plague have timed windows where they can calculate the survivor's running speed and line up shots to avoid their movement speed reduction. According to wiki, Huntress is 77% during wind-up, Deathslinger is 93.5 % although this stat never matter for deathslinger when he could quick-scope and Plague is 110% m/s. None of these m/s penalty are too severe because how little time these killers spent in their throwing mode.
Trickster's m/s in throwing knife mode should really be 110%-105% but survivor mains would cry that he is too strong now and has no counter-play in 1vs1. they would complain that dodging 44(33) knifes is too difficult for survivors. I am not entirely sure how you would resolve that problem. maybe he has 30 knifes but he reloads lockers 50% faster compare to huntress? Not entirely sure, but his power is 110% worthy if it was balanced correctly.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255358#Comment_3255358
I mean.. third seal is useful for helping to get special attack kills so
Basekit soulguard would ruin so many things tbh, it would make sense sure but it basically discourages mori photo bombing because you won't be able to keep the obsession on the floor cuz they can be completely invulnerable and nothing you can do abt it
base-kit soulguard endurance is a lot less severe then their base-kit unbreakable. All these perks are too situational for survivor currently because slugging with 4 players alive offer low rewards for the killer and slugging is only abused by SWF usually by bodyblocking unbreakables, Flashlights or Alex toolbox sabotage which are all anti-tunnel mechanics that soloq survivors suck at using these tools. these type of anti-tunnel mechanics require team coercion which soloq lacks. SoloQ instead used decisive strike as an anti-tunnel tool.
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@VaporLion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3257091#Comment_3257091
no its not that i think so, its that dead by daylight devs leaked stats about kill rate and there we could see that they are quite high i think like 61% average. and i dont understand why ur telling me that trapper sucks, i literally did a thread to suggest a buff for him and this has nothing to do with the topic.
kill-rates are lower average for killer win-rate. kill-rate becomes their win-rate only at really high numbers like above 75%. A lot of killer's suck, its not just trapper. Just some killer suck less then other killers. Its mostly based off survivor skill-level. The game is not balanced around 12 hooking which is what your post is about. Its only balanced around 12 hooking when the survivor is total potato at chase and has poor gen efficiency at the same time for most of lower-middle killer cast.
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@VaporLion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3256995#Comment_3256995
i think you are completly wrong on this. average kill rates are already quite high and its while the killer is trying to tunnel to reduce overall survivors in trial. if its all about hooks, the killers would just leave the hook instantly and therefore get the total hook count way quicker.
you think so? Go ahead and play BBQ trapper with no add-on. Go play trapper vs top calibur survivors on Badham preschool with self-restriction that you can that you need hook every survivor 2 times before being able to kill them. Go play trapper on Rotten fields without camping basement, Just play all farm maps on killer. Burn some Eyrie crow offerings. Try some other maps like Ormond offering, Gideon's offerings and Red forest offering's. you can try it with no add-on sadako, clown, myers, freddy, ghostface, wraith, pig.
Sure you'll beat some trash teams but all strong teams that are able to m1 generators and loop will get 3 man escape pretty easily. I have played enough of -hard- mode m1 killer that playing for hooks is certain loss. its only good for de-ranking.
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@LastTourniquet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3254374#Comment_3254374
This wasn't really a discussion about dead zones, as that is a completely different topic.
The difference between a 'Dead Zone' and this particular set of stairs is that you can spot a dead zone from a mile away. These stairs give the illusion of safety which no other vault location in the game does. Additionally RPD in particular is one of those maps where having dead zones is infinitely more troublesome than any other map due to the fact that they cut it in half and opened up a lot of the walls and made a lot of the pallets significantly worse than they used to be. On most maps 'Dead Zones' usually at least have something that you can run around for a little while to buy some time, but on RPD when a you find yourself in a Dead Zone you are literally in a hallway with no where to run other than a strait line.
No one is asking for 'cheap easy lazy loops' to be 'handed to them cause they don't want to work for anything anymore' I am simply asking for the Devs to not put trap resources. I would legitimately rather that vault just completely removed rather than continue to watch new players (or players unfamiliar with the map) take that vault and die as a direct result of doing so. Again there is no other location like that in the entire game.
i dislike new RPD because of trap resources. for example Chef Office which is office to -> right staircase just across main hall has pallet, but pallet is so unsafe that its practically not worth using.
In the Waiting Room which is room to right just as you exit main hall, they weakened god window and removed the god pallet/safe pallet into 2 unsafe pallets. The pallet next to window is a pallet that induces bloodlust 2-3 to get a hit if the survivor runs in clock-wise rotation to the window If survivor pre-drop the pallet ahead of the killer.. Its not safe pallet but the killer is still forced to break it due to orientation in the loop while other pallet next the window is free hit for all killers. The vault next to the pallet is a trap, so both pallet and window are irrelevant.
If playing RPD East-wing version of the map, you can go outside of waiting room by staircase and exit to right outside which leads to one of exit gates, there are two pallets. The first pallet is playable pallet, but 2nd pallet by exit gate is glued to the wall. Killers that respect pallets can get free hits by forcing a pallet drop. Even if you get stunned. there is no pallet besides first pallet to link into. This pallet would be good in principal if it was not glued to the wall and was more outward. Another trap-resource.
In the Roof section of East wing of the map, the window staircase is somewhat pointless. it barely grants any distance for vaulting it from stagger duration. it would be better if the window was more <----- instead of the middle. Its not trap window but it barely does anything.
I also wish Waiting Room third window and Piano room window had 2 exits on each side and the window was pushed more in the center so that going in these rooms was less of free-hit for a killer. RPD has a lot of trap resources.
Its good that they removed all those god pallets on West side hallways and closed off the library but some of resources of the map could be little better for survivor.
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@Bardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3253888#Comment_3253888
This would also of course massively shift the game in favour of survivors
absolutely. Killers that advocate the game to be balanced around "hooks" would love the change. 7 hooks would be like every game where survivors are all 2 hooked but nobody dies early since killer did not tunnel. survivors would win like 80% of the time with that rule change at high mmr. I think a lot of killer would struggle to win. most of the killers are balanced around 4 hooks in my opinion.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3256100#Comment_3256100
Also, how about this:
Slippery Meat - get two extra chances to unhooked you during he first hook stage and two unhooking attempts during und struggle (2nd) stage.
You would probably devote two perks to this, ie Slippery Meat and UP The Ante, plus salty lips, but you would still bank on a chance stacked against you, while giving you and your team massive upper hand against the killer if it works.
the problem is that its pretty unfair for a self-unhook to happen. In the end game, self-unhooking yourself with base-kit self bt can create situations where the killer loses a game just from pure rng. I always saw the kobe mechanic as more of self-suicide/give up mechanic. I am not sure how I feel about the mechanic. in many games, your teammate creates reckless situations where you lose a game as survivor just because your teammate preemptively gives up. Games that could been won possibly become instant losses. At the same time, you cannot force a player to stay in a game that he/she does not wish to continue to participate.
speaking of which, I think there should be self-suicide mechanic for when survivor a survivor is slugged. Given that they have give-up mechanic on hooks, why not have give-up mechanic on slug's?
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reactive healing would be such good perk if it was based off being away from the killer and it granted like 25% total healing progression. i would run that perk all the time as survivor.
its shame that its based off being 32 near the killer and gives current healing progression. when i am injured, i do not want to be next to the killer and current healing progression means that I still need find a teammate to fully heal me.
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@almofan1001 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255647#Comment_3255647
Since when is being in the top 2 most used survivor perks is "closer typical perk usage rate" lol?
Why do you guys go so soft on Dead Hard? I don't get it. Sh*t like BT, DS, and Iron Will literally fell from the Top 5 to probably the Top 20 and it's fine, but DH can stay in the Top 2? Especially when it literally wasn't nerfed for 5 years.
At a minimum, it needs to be in line with other exhaustion perks, which is still a long way to go.
The other exhaustion perks are too weak in my opinion to be used. The only perk comparable to dead hard in strength is 99% sprint burst but what holds SB from being overpowered is its trigger condition. Its trigger condition is running. If its trigger condition was press E, it would be strongest perk for survivor.
The problem with other exhaustion perks is that other exhaustion perks are suppose to be second-chance perks in specific situations, but many of situations are largely avoidable, so its like.. why use other exhaustion perks when you can avoid situations altogether? you do not need an exhaustion perk to bail you out in fabricated situations if the situations are avoidable in the first place.
Dead hard second-chance is most applicable second-chance for survivor because what perk counters is lunge attacking and since every killer lunge attacks, its has universal application as a result of every killer lunge attacking.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255989#Comment_3255989
I think if Blindness didn't negate basically all auras it would be too weak. At the very least I don't think anybody including me thinks Blindness is overpowered! So I can't imagine nerfing it.
its not overpowered, but its not well thought out status effect in my opinion. a status effect that is totally pointless vs 4 man swf comm's but can sometimes auto-win games vs soloq due to disorganization.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255939#Comment_3255939
Right, good survivors and bad survivors make different use of Windows, but the point is both types frequently use it and Blindness negates it.
I do not like that it negates this type of information. I think it should only negate perks that give wall-hack on the killer as such as Alert, kindred Wallhack, Wiretap and Fogwise. OoO and blood amber keys should also be negated.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255855#Comment_3255855
Information denial doesn't "exclusively hurt solo queue" because swf players do frequently run aura perks, including Windows of Opportunity which is the second most common survivor perk in the game. Blindness does hurt solo survivors MORE, but removing aura perks from swfs hurts them too, it's not exclusive to solos.
And if you think "only bad loopers run Windows" you're mistaken. Like I said, it's almost as common as Dead Hard, lots of solid survivor players run it.
I think if you rely on window of opportunity to loop, then your not really good at looping with survivor. Its like relying on technician and corrective action to do skill-checks on generators. that's kinda why i dislike window of opportunity for its training wheel aspect. it lower skill-floor for looping. a good looper runs Window of opportunity for different reason compare to a low-middle MMR player. If I run this perk, I use this perk to not go in deadzones from previous chases(teammate chases) and to keep track of my teammates that drop pallets(useful for vs low tr/stealth killers).
a build that I used to run for memes is Order doctor(Fake pallet doctor) and I would pick maps like RPD. You would be surprised for how many people that run windows of opportunity just run into fake pallets and turn their brain off when looping. i find that hilarious. I think that is why they nerfed fake pallet freddy because low-middle mmr survivors rely on window of opportunity and just run into freddy fake pallets like dummies.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255358#Comment_3255358
On a tangent, I use Third Seal not because it helps with slugging but because Windows of Opportunity is the second most used survivor perk just under Dead Hard at the moment and Third Seal hard counters it as well as every other aura perk. The fact that Blindness helps with slugging is a side bonus honestly, to me the main benefit is it typically totally cancels multiple survivor perks per game.
for hex perk, that is not really worth it. its risky hex perk that can go down at any time and the information denial exclusively hurts soloq without comms. I have used third seal as an experimentation perk on tier 3 myer's. the results are pretty funny, you can 4 man slug teams with blindness if they're soloq with myer's but as soon as you go against swf with third seal, survivor pick themselves up as if the status effect does nothing which creates this infinity loop of me downing survivors like +10 times but survivor picking themselves up perfectly at 30 second recovery period. that is why slugging does not really work in 4vs1. your better off hooking survivors in this instance. Blindness only works vs soloq and survivor need to be poor at looping for it to be successful. Strong 4 man comm SWF just make this perk very irrelevant which is why nobody bothers with knock out or third seal. They improve slugging in an irrelevant way compare to how killer use slugging to gain an advantage in the game(based off survivor misplay).
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@dugman said:
Continuing a series of threads on the least picked perks according to Nightlight, next up is Leatherface's perk Knock Out (0.48% usage)
Knock Out -
Survivors put into the dying state by your basic attacks are not revealed to other Survivors when they are standing outside of a 32/24/16-meter range.
Survivors put into the dying state by your basic attacks crawl 50% slower for 15 seconds, and their recovery speed is reduced by 25%.
During this time, Survivors are affected by the Blindness status effect.
Blindness prevents Survivors from seeing auras.
The benefit of the perk is obviously that if you happen to slug a survivor this perk might slow down the process of them being revived. (Maybe, a little bit. 🤷♂️)
Looking at downsides, it's worth noting some players hate getting slugged for whatever reason and this probably translates in them not using Knock Out when they happen to play killer. Honestly, though, I suspect that's not the primary reason this perk sees such low use.
I think the biggest downsides that hamper this perk's effectiveness are:
- Unlike Third Seal, other survivors can still see a Knocked Out dying survivor's aura if they're within 16 meters. For context Deathslinger's rifle is 18 meter range, so that should give you an idea of how far away you can be from someone who is Knocked Out and start to see their aura. It's not HUGE but it's still a pretty decently sized range so it's not clear just how much this perk actually slows down other solo survivors looking for a Knocked Out ally.
- And the perk is even less useful against swf players since they can simply relay their location to speed up save attempts. There's maybe a marginal benefit still when all the swf is far away and there are no good landmarks nearby or something like that but mostly it won't do much.
- The perk does technically add up to about 7-8 seconds to recovery time because of the 25% speed penalty, but that's probably not too important a benefit and certainly not enough on its own to make it worth a perk slot.
- Also Knock Out for some reason only works on Basic Attacks which limits the killers who might benefit from it consistently.
- And finally making the dying survivor Blind isn't all that useful really since, honestly, they're not going to be able to do too much with aura information while they're stuck on the ground. Best case for them without Knock Out if they see an aura is to maybe relay that info to a standing survivor on comms, but either way the usefulness of auras while you can't really do anything is more limited.
So as it stands Knock Out is a pretty bad perk. Even in the context of when you plan to do a lot of slugging in matches, you're still probably better off using a more generally useful perk than Knock Out because the benefit you get is fairly marginal most of the time. And if you never slug the perk obviously does nothing at all.
All that said, while I do think Knock Out needs a buff, there's the complicating factor that we do have the Last Survivor and new base game slugging game mechanics coming on the horizon, and when that happens it's possible Knock Out will be changed in the process. But even then, one way to buff the perk that would maybe work in both the current system and the future possible system where survivors can revive themselves after a while is to increase that 25% recovery speed penalty. If that number is boosted to, say, 50% then now a dying survivor is looking at a baseline 15 extra seconds in the current game and possibly an extra 23 seconds in the future rework before they can be revived. That would hopefully open up more opportunities for on and off slugging for pressure where you can leave someone on the ground a bit longer and then come back and hook them after you do something else like a second chase where you get another hit or down or pallet drop, etc.
It's also ironic the perk only works on basic attacks now. It used to work on all attacks but that was changed in patch 4.1.0 for ... some reason, I never really understand the logic there. (It had maybe something to do with wanting to simplify the number of instances the perk could trigger I think? I'm not sure.) At any rate, if they ever reconsider and let it work with special attacks again that would at least help it a bit too.
I think i recall peanut making a remark for on basic/special attack for knockout. i think I remember him saying something lines of changing it to not work on huntress hatchets. this is very distant memory.
Knock out encourages leaving survivors on the floor and tries to incentive the killer to bleed out the survivor by denying the survivor the ability to see teammates on the floor. there is just few problems that make it ineffective at the job
1) SWF can still see survivors that are on the floor by doing call out, so premise of the perk does not work. It only works for soloq but it does not work too well because 16 meters is still decent detection range to still find the survivor. It is bad at keeping survivors on the floor.
2) The recovery time and slower crawling speed for 30 seconds are irrelevant bonuses.
3) Hooking survivors is faster death then slugging them. There is no chance the survivor ever dies to 4 minute bleed out with or without this perk in normal dbd gameplay. Slugging is relevant without the perk, so why waste a perk slot for unrewarding action?
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slugging is weird in current dbd because survivor do not expect to get slugged, so they do not bring perks to counter slugging because slugging is uncommon. The reason why its uncommon is because its unrewarding for "most" killers to slug survivors when 4 survivors are alive. they don't get rewards for downing the survivor because survivor is almost never at risk to dying to bleed out timer. Its also difficult for weak killers to slug because their time to down is not very good. as a result of no risk of dying to the bleed out timer, SWF can abuse slugging as anti-tunnel mechanic through body blocking where as soloq rarely body-blocks and often plays a more 1vs1 killer lone-wolf gen rush style. Survivors are more at risk to dying to 3 hook condition more so then slugging. this is why survivors used to bring anti-tunnel perks and anti-camp perks to slowdown the killer's chances in winning through 3 hook win-condition.
I would say that say that tunneling, camping and slugging each facilitate each other in helping the killer win if the uses the strategies correctly at the right time. Its big circular relationship that is somewhat complicated to explain. Tunneling is strongest strategy in dbd because if you kill one survivor early into the game, you reduce survivor's repair and healing efficiency by 100%(25% out of 100%) which is very significant. The earlier this happens, the more significant it is. Camping is strong because if a hook is regressed for 60 seconds, you need 1 less chase to kill the survivor making them easier to tunnel out of the game. Now we go onto the most complicate part of dbd which is slugging. Slugging is more of double-edge sword. Slugging facilitates camping because one of risks of camping hooks is that survivors can ignore the hook and rush generators, however this is only true if survivor is ahead of the killer in the generator objective. if you hook one person and then intercept the unhooker and down them, its often better to leave the unhooker on the floor and to push the person on hook to second stage because it becomes easier to tunnel the 2nd hook person out of the game. Certain killers excel at this type of camp-slug type gameplay. Tunneling survivors out of the game and successful creating 3vs1 makes slugging a lot easier to achieve because if you are successful in downing two survivors at once in 3vs1. you can often find the 3rd survivor and chase them which leaves no survivors available to pick up remaining survivors. If last remaining survivor tries to pick up a 95% recovery survivor, the killer can re-slug the survivor by hitting the downing survivor unless one of survivors has the perk Soulguard. Soulguard is like borrow time for slugging although I would say Soulguard is a bit weak in term of duration in comparison to borrow time(8 second vs 20 second BT). In any case, if you are successful in knock out the 3 remaining survivors, you can 1 hook them. Some killers excel/rely on this finisher-type slugging play-style(Twins, Oni etc.). In a 4vs1, slugging for bleed out is too risky. If the survivor team is strong, it will almost always backfire because the killer will lose hook-states for not hooking the survivor. Its a lot safer to hook in 4vs1. The survivor team needs to play very poorly for slugging to be successful in 4vs1. This is why slugging is double-edge sword.
I would say circular relationship between these killer actions go something along this. Slugging -> Camping -> Tunneling -> Slugging. Slugging facilitates camping where camping facilitates tunnelling where tunneling facilitates slugging. The explanation for why this works this way can be seen in paragraph 2.
Knock out is a perk that encourages bleeding survivors out, but the way it does this is ineffective and winning through bleed out for killer is ineffective strategy. Its same reason why nobody uses Third seal. Gimmick perks that do not work vs strong teams and at best work vs weak soloq survivors that have poor teamwork and really bad at looping. personally I think blindness should be debuff that prevents the killer aura from being read and it should not block aura reading from teammates. The whole slugging dynamic could use some tweaking to make the slugging gameplay more streamlined so that twin's gameplay loop is more streamlined. Currently not many players enjoy playing twins because slugging is too advanced for most killer players because how sharp the risk vs reward slugging is. This is why I think slugging needs more gradual rewards so that it is a bit less sharp.
there is also that problem where survivors have sentiment that slugging is boring, unfun and toxic. perhaps it would be interesting to look at why these sentiments toward the killer slugging are there and what could be improved to make slugging less boring, more fun and less toxic towards the survivor. For me personally, the only part i dislike about slugging gameplay on killer side is chain-slugging. this is where you are slugged by the killer and a teammate picks you up and the killer immediately downs you and re-slug you. this is unfun for surivivor because the survivor has little counter-play if they are being camped when slugged. I could see survivors getting base-kit soulguard similar to base-kit borrow time to make this a bit less effective and soulguard being buffed to say 20 seconds. Slugging needs to be seen less as negative towards survivor and be more widely accepted killer gameplay like hooking & camping is.
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@almofan1001 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3254873#Comment_3254873
When survivors are near a pallet (any pallet), they can time their dead hard in a way that guarantees them either a pallet drop or a dead hard proc because:
1 Either killer swings during dead hard animation and procs dead hard
2 Killer waits it out but then the survivor drops a pallet and stuns killer
If a survivor does it properly, there is NO counterplay, with exception of a few killers. The killer cannot "just wait it out" because if they wait it out, survivor can drop a pallet. So they're forced into a lose-lose situation. This is the biggest problem with Dead Hard and how it feels so unfair.
And while it requires more skill than old dead hard to perform this move, it doesn't require nearly enough to justify a "lose-lose" scenario for a killer. There is no counterplay from the killer side, they have to rely on survivors messing up. The timing window is way too generous for survivors that they don't really need much skill to do this.
They can implement a nerf to this by preventing survivors from dropping a pallet after dead-hard animation for X seconds. There are other ways to fix this too, and honestly, I don't care as long as this mechanic is gone.
When survivors are near a pallet (any pallet), they can time their dead hard in a way that guarantees them either a pallet drop or a dead hard proc.
That is only true for very specific distances. that is kinda why I wanted dead hard to be 1 second duration instead of 0.5 second duration, since missed attack cooldown is 1.5 seconds. Unfortunately they buffed dead hard before it went to live server to 0.5 seconds creating a very specific lose/lose scenario for dead hard.
I was not opposed to buff but I did not necessarily agree with dead hard buff from 1 -> 0.5 second.
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@tippy2k2 said:
See, I feel like that would do the exact opposite
If I'm a killer and I know the entire team has 7 lives, do you think I'm going to run around and chase various survivors or am I just going to hammer the hell out of the week link until it snaps and takes everyone out?
if there weak-link currently on the team, your going hammer that weak-link out of the game to create 3vs1 as fast as possible in current system.
In his proposed system, you need 7 hooks. The team will stay alive longer as 4 survivors then it would in current system. The survivor team in new system would gain the maximum amount of generator efficiency for tunneling survivors. there would be no reward for tunneling survivors out of the game. Pair that with no hook regression on hooks and camping/tunneling would be least rewarding strategies.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3252579#Comment_3252579
Yeah the unbreakable change encourages you to tunnel someone out of the game quickly, because then you can end the game very easily by Hooking 1 person, and slugging the last two. I hope they take another look at the base kit unbreakable change, because it's just another killer buff.
if nobody has unbreakable, what exactly is changing when 1 survivor is hooked and other 2 survivors are on the floor? the killer will often actively look for remaining two survivors to hook them. base-kit unbreakable is survivor buff, it changes nothing for killer because the killer is that situation will win regardless, but unbreakable prevents him from slugging meaning the situation will be unable to occur in first place which is free second chances for the survivor.
They did say they were looking into adding icons for survivor. I still think its much better to give all survivors global bond over icons, but that is just my opinion.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3250019#Comment_3250019
He already is. What you propose would make him more broken then best nurses. 0 counterplay. Not healthy
I am pretty sure that a strong team will still be able to defeat him, but the killer gameplay would have more gameplay options.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3249984#Comment_3249984
If Wesker were much better than he is right now he'd be too strong. I think you're underestimating the value of his infections and also underestimating his mobility and the value of his being able to get hits from across normally very safe pallets.
i do not think he would be too strong. I do think he would be top 3 killer contender if he was a bit stronger.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3249162#Comment_3249162
Wesker is strong at zoning between tiles, has good map mobility, and can simply vault over safe pallets at medium to long length loops to get a hit. Plus his infection acts as decent indirect gen slowdown since it forces survivors to run around using sprays over and over or risk being 8% slower movement and instant downable. On top of which he’s the most picked killer and has above average kill rates at all brackets in both the dev stats and on Nightlight.
He definitely does not need a buff.
can simply vault over safe pallets at medium to long length loops to get a hit
Every time I have tried pallet vaulting a strong looper that understood good position, I never got close enough to get an m1 hit out of it. He has 12 second cooldown for both virulent bound charges and distanced travel is not that huge. I would not call his ability good map mobility.
I would say what carries wesker is his ability to dash hit survivors between loops and his 4vs1 infection. he could use some improvements on his cooldown and improvements to his pallet play. dropping strong safe pallet should not be impossible to mindgame with his ability. I still wish that he could vault pallets and use his 2nd bound after vaulting for more gameplay at dropped pallet. lower cooldown would also help. he is by no means bad, but could be better.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3249705#Comment_3249705
For Bloodlust to kick in, chase needs to start and be maintained.
Be a 110% killer on Garden or Haddonfield. Chase will break, you cannot build Bloodlust and Blockers won't kick in. It's a true infinite, and this is without any hate whatsoever.
These issues would be exacerbated if Dark Theory were ever buffed.
dark theory is only 2%. it only reduces m/s to 108%, your still faster than the survivor. its just that loop takes long time. it should not be true infinity until m/s increase is 9-10%. taking chases in bad positions as killer is killer's fault.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3248981#Comment_3248981
Here's the proof that you are absolutely dead wrong:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stfxjkjO4eY
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3248982#Comment_3248982
If I play hard as killer I will get to a point where every game is people who play like robots and basically make closer to zero than one mistake per game. You cannot balance a game without looking at the top to limit some of the things the best players do that give tremendous advantage over the "middle of the pack".
his comment is kill-rates. its because of dev brain wash survivors and killer into thinking these kill-rates are accurate representations of the killer's power-level.
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@BrianOfJudea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3249027#Comment_3249027
what if instead it was after a survivor completes a healing action from being injured by a basic attack you get one token, the perk would incentive hit and run and would almost be like an alternative to devour for killers like wraith, Sadako and dredge.
i suspect that the perk would have delayed rewards where your waiting for a survivor to heal to reap the activation of the perk instead of just playing normally and letting the perk trigger through natural decision making in the game. I think upfront token is more direct for the killer.
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@BrianOfJudea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3248988#Comment_3248988
Well the perk would just be counter intuitive then, the time it would take to hit everyone once, let them go and then find someone who healed would just be too much of a time sink compared to just committing to the second or third survivor you chase. Once you do hook someone you’d have to almost throw the game to get 4 stacks as well, because if you hit the unhooker you can’t commit to them because you would lose all stacks, can’t hit the person off hook because even if they don’t have endurance you lose stacks, then if you decided to just find the other two there is no guarantee they would give a free hit and after that you would still need to get another hit from someone whose healed in that time and by that point the survivors would notice the perk and just pre drop everything to make the down less valuable. In unhook scenarios like that the killer could try to plan the hits around the survivor who was unhooked and use the Insta down on them, but then they might as well tunnel off hook I guess so idk.
I have considered making it 3 hits, though I'm not entirely sure if the perk would trigger too often at 3 hits. I have also considered the idea that the perk resets on-hooking the survivor instead of putting them in the dying state. This enables the killer to slug although the goal of the perk is not to make the killer slug though. its suppose encourage the killer to spread injure pressure even when in the presence of med-kit and healing perks which largely reduce incentive to spreading pressure.
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@BrianOfJudea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3248552#Comment_3248552
Insane might be an exaggeration, but it would be fairly strong on hit and run killers and imagine the camping potential with this perk, if you hit everyone once or even just their off the records/dead heads and then proxy a guy on the hook. It’s basically bubba camping but in a perk. Putting it in a hex would counter the camping though and make it more of an early game pressure perk like blood favour.
It is not on hit. it is on injury. It uses same trigger condition as killer perk hysteria with an extra condition that it only works on basic attacks. It does not gain stacks when hitting endurance.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3248861#Comment_3248861
The first line of the perk is "You work best alone."
I think that fits the spirit of the perk perfectly.
The second line is "When it is just you and your pursuer, you know how to disappear." The perk is all about stealth but end game perk for stealth is pointless. I do wish Ada perks were more relevant.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3248849#Comment_3248849
No, it'd be the same perk but it has a heal speed bonus on top of it.
I do not think it fits spirit of the perk. I think that would be another perk. I think this perk is designed for you to be more stealthy in the end game, but the irony is that when two survivors are remaining, survivor can already stealth really well and drag out the game without requiring this perk.
I think your describing new perk that might come out in the future. Maybe the perk would work like slugging-based we'll make it. If you pick up a survivor from dying state to injured state, Increase your Altruistic Healing speed by 100% for the next 30/60/90 seconds. It might be strong perk where you can 3vs1 some killers with it if they slug.
Edit: Never ever mind, I see the problem here. the healing speed stacking would be crazy if 4 survivor used the perk due to how we're gonna live forever and current slugging works where survivor could heal slugs faster then the killer could m1(without stbfl).
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@ReverseVelocity said:
I was gonna make a post about this, but since you've made one I guess I'll just put it here.
What if it increased heal speeds by 100% when active? It'd give you the ability to quickly reset your team from a SHTF situation. Plus, if self-healing was avaliable through Circle or a Medkit, then you'd be able to quickly patch yourself up to make going for a save much less risky.
sounds like entirely different perk. I cannot really comment on this perk because I never equipped this survivor perk. my comment on these survivor perks that revolve around being last is that they do not make much of difference in changing the outcome of the game.
If your going to run a perk that help's you when your at brink of defeat in 3 man slugging situations, your better off running unbreakable. At the same time, if these perk were effective and changed the outcome of games that the killer was likely to win, they would be close to Keys. Conclusively, I do not think that perks like left behind, sole survivor or low profile will ever be good perks.
the closest one that has potential to be relevant is sole survivor. Currently sole survivor grants 75% repair speed bonus only when you are last survivor. if sole survivor scaled with the number of survivor dead, for example it gave 25% repair speed per survivor dead similar to aura immunity scaler's up to max of 3, then the 25%/50% repair bonus when 2 survivors are dead might be able to change the game outcome in niche instances where 1 generator remains. At the same time, a NOED-type perk that is punishing the killer for killing survivors is just super strange.
These perks for survivor are largely joke-perks.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3248473#Comment_3248473
I don't want to get too far into the weeds here, but Tru3 starts off with an ironclad view of what he considers to be skilled DbD play and bases his viewpoints off of that. There's never consideration on his part that he may be wrong about what constitutes skilled play at the highest level. For instance: looping and not playing tiles on the survivor end. You see this at the competitive level i.e. the highest level. Most teams will tell you a 10 second chase in the correct part of the map is better than a 1 minute chase in the wrong side of the map. You will get benched as a survivor if you're trying to extend chases in bad areas and not creating space. It looks like terrible survivor play if your only definition of good play is looping.
DbD at a high level is much less about tile optimization and more about space creation and positioning. And I think a lot of people get hung up on that, mostly content creators. It's not accidental efficiency on the survivor end in many cases. It's creating space. And the killer needs to recognize a valid opportunity for a valuable down vs giving too much space.
And regarding Eruption strategy, killers will absolutely kick gens at all costs with the Eruption/CoB build in my experience. It's almost always a 20 minute slog of gen kicking and trying to get the killer to commit to something.
Tru3 had a game today on demo. He was using barbed glasses+lepros lichen on midwich elementary school. Remember that Demo has base-kit pallet break and he is using an add-on that makes you break pallet faster, so in theory, its suppose punish survivor for pre-dropping pallets. The summary of the game was that the survivor team(SWF) just pre-drop every single pallet, the survivor did not loop a single pallet. Tru3 lost with 1 kill, 3 escape. In his opinion, He thinks that skillful play on survivor side is pre-drop pallets and m1 generators. He does not think that killer is skillful role because of the gen speed vs chase hook ratio and pallet design in the game in which Tru3 attributes to SWF being imbalanced.
I am not interested in going into the details. your opinion is closer to mine but my explanation would be different.
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Gut instinct: Use spine chill.
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@RonMan32 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3248558#Comment_3248558
Oh well you wanna turn every killer into Legion. This will also be really good on Legion. Idk about that either chief.
only works on basic attacks. Yes it turns every killer into legion but not every killer wants to drop chase. The perk counters healing such as med-kits.
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@RonMan32 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3247969#Comment_3247969
I dunno if I'd call that INSANE since Devour Hope only needs 3 stacks. Granted those stacks are harder to get.
I'd say yeah either make it a Hex or make the tokens based off putting survivors into the DYING state not injured.
the perk resets all tokens if any survivor is put into dying state. for example, if you hit 2 survivors, you will gain 2 tokens, but as soon you down a survivor. the 2 tokens are reduced reset to 0.
You have to injure 4 survivors. The 5th injury would instead result in an instant down encouraging hit & run play style.
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@VaporLion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3248315#Comment_3248315
what they do is watch you from a distance and when you are about done with a box they force you off it. if you go for a new one they follow from distance. this makes it so there is 0 counterplay and a guaranteed death. this just feels undeserved and stupid that the killer doesnt even have to submit a chase to get you killed and feels like a wayst of time. id rather just die on the spot then be caught in this unescapable exploit loop.
search the box. if she downs you. she is forced to slug you for 4 minutes. your team can ignore you as long as pig camps the slug and finish all generators and escape. you'll just be martyr for that pig game. It is unfun game for you to get tunnelled, but pig will not win the game by doing that if your team plays correctly.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3248411#Comment_3248411
You logic makes about as much sense as saying pallets are useless, because they buy you only 2-3s to break it. It does not matter that it increase looping time. That needs to be ignored....
Same thing with carburator. If that 0.5s makes difference between hitting survivor at window or running to the wall, then it's stupid to count centemeter difference in absolute numbers. Not to mention that it gives you burst speed instead of slow catching up - which works especially well on unsafe loops.
Going back to the beginning - it's not the addons fault you have no clue how to use it well.
@Archol123 post is correct. The reason why billy used charge-time add-on is due to his movement speed when holding his chainsaw. Its similar problem with Trickster's holding knives. he slowdown to 92%(?). The extra cm are difference between the survivor looping tightly and billy inability to curve.
Otz tried make a video on killer-changes. He just did not bother to fully elaborate on billy's problems.
Not to mention that it gives you burst speed instead of slow catching up - which works especially well on unsafe loops.
Killer don't care about downing survivors with their ability on unsafe loops. They only care about downing the survivor at safest looping structures.
If you ask me, the tuning guide should be base-kit at 30% without negatives and mother helper should be reworked to reduce successful & missed cooldown by 25%. Ideally these add-on should be base-kit for billy but survivor would complain about billy being unfun.
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@Gandor said:
On hit exposed. That would make hit & run killers way stronger. IDK what to think about this one
I was expecting you to say that the perk is overpowered like Stridor. It is hit & run perk designed for stealth killer like Dredge and Wraith.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3247970#Comment_3247970
A couple thing:
If a killer is downing players in 45 seconds or less repeatedly through the match and they still lose, then they didn't do everything right. They played with zero game sense and took terrible chases.
The reward for Eruption doesn't remotely scale with the absent counterplay and conditions to activate it. It can activate on multiple gens and stall them for an absurd amount of time. You talk about killers doing things right and not being rewarded, but this perk does exactly the opposite. A survivor can take a chase and bait the killer into an awful commit across the map, and the killer will still not lose a gen because of an Eruption proc+Incapacitated. If you have a problem with not rewarding the skill of one side, you should have a problem with not rewarding the skill of the other side.
I think I need explain first part your post in more detail. What tru3 was describing is that the survivor could loop 0 pallets correctly, get hit and go down on every single chase and the survivor could still complete all generators. this is closer to word for word for what he was describing. I just shorten it to 45 second chases because I did not want to go into raw detail. In other words, the killer could have 30 second chases, spend 10-15 second walking to a hook to hook the survivor(45 second total chase time spent) and immediately find the next survivor to chase in next 15 seconds. Repeat this process the entire match. Tru3 would still lose all 5 generators even though in his view, he played every chase as efficiently as he could. Randomly hooking survivors and hoping they die is sure way for the killer to lose. He further elaborates a theory that killer that play for hooks often win strong teams because they accidentally played efficiently by pure chance.
The second paragraph is more complicated to break down.
It can activate on multiple gens and stall them for an absurd amount of time.
The killer needs to kick multiple generators to acquire multiple eruption procs. Kicking generator is secondary objective for killer. Any time spent kicking generator is time not spent chasing. Every map is nearly 10,000 sqrt meters. For your average m1 killer, The killer spent 20 seconds walking to every generator to kick a single generator. A few select killer like Wraith or Blight have out-chase mobility to slightly shorten the time to walk to generators, so in some cases, mobility can translate into generator defence through perks. I am not going to go in detail on every killer to further elaborate on this point. The 25 second incapacitated is not absurd reward because the killer wastes time kicking generators to apply the perk. Complaining about 10% regression is laughable compared to how fast survivor progress generators.
You talk about killers doing things right and not being rewarded, but this perk does exactly the opposite. A survivor can take a chase and bait the killer into an awful commit across the map, and the killer will still not lose a gen because of an Eruption proc+Incapacitated.
This is precisely tru3's position. The survivor is playing as poorly as possible while still escaping. The killer is downing the survivor as fast as possible but still losing. Tru3 summarizes the complaints on eruption as survivors wanting to be terrible at the chase but still escaping. Going down in 30 seconds every chase is playing as bad as possible as survivor.
@Sava18 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3248001#Comment_3248001
Pain res is a perfect example of a perk that rewards you for getting downs, but it does have counterplay and doesn't give you infinite value for your teammates "mistakes". I agree with everyone else here, you will go down vs a good killer eventually. Unless they are pre throwing the entire map while also playing well.
Sure, Pain res is a lot stronger because it works automatically, does not require kicking generators and gives higher regression reward. My only complaint about this perk is for why I only get the reward 33% of the time. Why does it only work on 4 hooks and not on every hook? Instead of giving 2.5% laughable kicking regression rewards, Why not give Scourge hook: pain resonance as base-kit on every hook? The perk could be repurposed to increase the rewards by 2.5% regression. There would be more incentive for the killer to hook different survivors and be rewarded for successfully chasing a survivor. In tru3 words, he would describe the killer playing for hook as 12 hooking/using no strategy.