Deadman7600
Deadman7600
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@Willish said:
I don't quit, but if I get a Ghoul, I'll try my hardest to get hooked and tunneled. That killer drains every ounce of enjoyment from this game imo "Oh no, how did I not make that vault on the other side of the map?" 😱
that's still quitting. Unless you mean you just run heavy interference and go goblin mode?
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@Wezqu said:
There is 58 bug fixes in the PTB patch and most likely there is several more in the release patch.
Naming few that are quite important ones or some that have been in the game for a while.
Deathslinger reeling problem that could make the chain break faster if near corner or small object.
Hag's traps blocking the Hag herself if using the Scarred Hand add-on
Bardic Inspiration showing dice roll half way through the song
THWACK! working now with Knight guards
Also if you have paid any attention to the bug report forum mods have been way more active there than they have been for a while. I would say they are actively trying to get bugs fixed but in the end there is a lot of them and getting them all will take time.
Every ptb shows up with new bugs, cosmetics constantly get bugged (even after they're 'fixed') and they straight up lie about stuff being fixed. Stop letting them off on this, balance is a matter of perspective, bugs are unacceptible and this game is practically decaying before our eyes. Call them out.
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Honestly, Scout has never caused me much of a problem unlike on command sprint burst. Now you can always just normally run to a pallet that is always there and then just press E to escape when you lose. Original SB was manageable because it was automatic meaning it was only good for a pre-run then you're on your own, this is practically old dead hard again. I can only see blight, nurse and potentially a really skilled huntress or deathslinger (with insane predictions) who could counter this.
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@UndeddJester said:
To be fair, the primary point of killer is their power, that's why they get their power jacked up the nines. The classes add a little extra, but the star of the show is the killer themselves...
Comparatively the Survivors are entirely defined by their class, thusbtheir class has to do more of tne heavy lifting for the Survivor gameplay... so Survivor classes being more engaging/game defining than killer ones just makes sense.
Not all the killers get that treatment though sadly. Ask ghostface who got introduced with 3 negatable buffs and a nerf.
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I think it should, It really has everything this game needs in it. A better balanced alternative to the perk system, a new hooking mechanic, a reason for killer not to slug (because you can nearly guarantee a hook) and just more fun.
All I'd say it should have is 1 perk slot with a small number of nerfed perks just to help players differentiate their playstyle and slightly make it more in depth.
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I think Blight needs a heavier nerf than nurse because, despite her power, just blocking aura when she's about to blink would weaken her significantly. Blight needs much more thought going into his nerfs.
Also, where the pig option at.
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@cogsturning said:
Look at this depressing image:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/F0BQH0DDRG3M/19a6f94ed6f6-screenshoturl.jpg
They're all either one or no hooks. All are uninjured. No one on a gen. No one in chase. And I watched them stand, creep, and tbag while I died.
Will aura fix it? Maybe not, but it sure won't hurt.
god that annoys me even when I see it as killer. I think the issue is from the lack of MMR in 2v8. The mode is kinda balanced around half the team having no thumbs so you may have been cosmically unlucky and got a really bad team. I'm not sure perks can fix this.
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Literally, 2v8 was what solidified me as a fan, and this version has been awful. Neither me or my friend want to play killer because of the sb. It's genuinely such a free escape, especially if you're playing a weaker killer like trapper, ghostface or nemesis (the killers I actually want to play).
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I never thought of a dress to impress mode for dbd but now I kinda would love it. The killers judge 5 survivors each (the number reduces every round), they kill the fits they don't like and then for the finals the dead survivors and killers vote for their favourite of the two remainers, the loser gets mori'd. The only considerations would be that bhvr would need to add new cosmetic/dress up items that aren't from the store to keep it fair, and the queue would have to work differently since we can't afford to let either queue get bloated in what is essentially a minigame. The killers would also need something to do while survivors are dressing up, maybe chasing around the dead survivors?
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I like the fact that I can play survivor in between. I think that should be something I have access to in normal mode. One match killer one or two as survivor is actually very fun.
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@The_Count said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027334#Comment_4027334
Simply NO!
Survs would always use this perk slot for some crap like DH or DS.I agree, which is why in other places I've said this I also specified it needs to be 20 or something perks at first. Probably focusing on free perks and some of the less problematic or less used ones. I can see chemtrap, still sight, cut loose, red herring, diversion, mirrored illusion and most of the free ones being fairly unproblematic for survivor. For killer the old/soon to be new version of furtive sounds like it'd be okay in 2v8 given the shadow class is just the current version without haste. Then they slowly bring in other perks that needed nerfs or reworks like dh, ds, pain res, pop etc. We have to remember, the goal of the class system was to equalise the playing field. The perks need to be weak or diminished enough to keep the integrity of that class system, so the mode can be easy to access as it is now. The goal isn't to give massive buffs like dh provides (just look at the on command sb that makes the mode awful), its to make the mode more complex, while not shifting balance massively.
The best way to illustrate would be to give an example. Say oppression, one of my new favourite perks were added to killer in 2v8. This perk inflicts 4 additional gens with regression after a kick on 1v4. In my hypothetical system, it would have smaller coverage, maybe even 1 or 2 gens. Then if you use brute you get a small 5% pop on those gens that get inflicted. This way it becomes a thing I can use, but wouldn't necessarily give me a massive advantage, it just feeds into my playstyle.
Trust me, we agree, DS as it is now should not be anywhere near 2v8.
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@GoingToGetDwight said:
Hello! has anyone encounter 2v8s hackers in 2v8? i encounter a sable wall hacker while playing huntress she seem to knew every move i was going to make and looking though me the rocks and walls the hole time without the kit is that a possibility?
I haven't in this iteration. i did once get one of the hackers who glitches through the floor and stuff.
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I tend to play for fun chases lately so I typically just go for fun shots with xeno's tail or springtraps axe and sometimes I let survivors go. Most of the time tho, if I stomp or anything I'll let them get resets and stuff so I can 1v1 them.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027330#Comment_4027330
Not to the degree it is, it's really hard to get him out of it, like you can even get him out while he peaks. You have to literally crouch inside of him and look to get it to work in some hedges
I thought it was weird I wasn't being instantly spotted on dead dawg but I thought it was just luck. I might check other maps then.
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@3AMandLost said:
No it should not, 1v4 queues for killers are borderline 10 minutes and the average match lenght is around 7-10 minutes. this means as killer ur match can be shorter then ur queues
2v8 also are too limitied, no perks, 90% of the killers are not playable (and some of them will never be playable on it)
1v4 matchmaking is also tanked cause tell me why I am getting survivors with 300 hours in my lobbies when the killer has 5k
Also the class system is boring, its the same exact skills, no perks or build variety.
Also overall the gameplay flow is awful, survivors can sprint burst on command, drop 30 pallets next to eachother and have someone rebuild them, 0 macro or brain power requiered
The only players who want 2v8 to be permanent are those who want the game to play for them. Also if 2v8 was permanent what would happend with the other modes? would default 1v4 be removed anytime something like chaos shuffle or holiday event gets added into the rotation?
Personally I've always thought a single perk slot for every person would be good.
Maybe there could also be a system like (This'll be a weird pull) in sonic racing crossworlds where certain perks grant additional benefits to certain classes. In that game gadgets like the handling vehicle kit works best on handling cars, perks like chemtrap could charge faster on guide for instance (since that class already uses traps). Perks like SB or DS should be reworked I think but other than that I think it'd flesh out the 2v8 experience a bit more, without requiring copious hours gathering perks.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027149#Comment_4027149
Or give it bigger cooldown than 30 seconds, medic can heal 50% of health state in the area range with 90 seconds cooldown, scout has 60 seconds cooldown I think for pallet rebuild which is strong but escapist class still beats it for survivability, lastly guide has 60 seconds cooldown or 90 still Idk and his power is just mainly two perks in basekit but isnt much usefull just annoying or if you want do 95% and higher progressed gen into killers face but thats for YT or ttv people to get vievs. Escapist has 30 seconds cooldown for sprintburst but with quick and quiet which is strong for escape but worst for killer is that this ability is on comand with such small cooldown if it was 60 seconds than it wouldnt be so busted and on top of that you give every survivor around you like in 12 meters range or what 50% haste which is sprintburst too and many killers without catch up or insane speed are done there even wraith is just someone who wants to scare you more than injure you because he cant if survivor doesnt make mistake and runs from him.
So they should either make it to work as normal sprintburst which activates on pressing shift or give it minimaly 60 seconds cooldown because 30 seconds are joke and keep it as it is now.
Still I think original escapist class the first version was more busted you got sprintburst normal one without quick and quiet as now but cooldown was I think 20 seconds or 30 seconds and 20 exhastion something like that but you got WOO as now, when you were injured you had made for this speed 3% haste and now you give survivors around you sprintburst too but Im not sure if its 50% haste for just 2 seconds instead of 3 or if there is cap like for 2 survivors, just the old one didnt have cap or anything so he could gave sprintburst whole team if they were near him plus he had selfcare ofter being caged once like now which made this class just so easy to survive as and escape with more than now you had just strong info for chase, strong exhastion perk,made for this speed when injured and could heal your self alone to save time or when there was no one to heal you.
In a fast paced mode like 2v8, I feel like having a 'push E to escape' button is bad. Killer is on a real time crunch in 2v8, which would be fun if the enjoyable killers had ways to catch up. Sadly, almost no killers except spirit, billy, oni or blight can handle this in a timely manner. I played against 4 people with this ability as ghostface yesterday and couldn't get a hit for like 5 minutes because they were all ratting around one generator and would just pre-run, to a strong tile and then press E to escape when I beat them. I had to get my duo teammate who was playing spirit to help because I was entirely defanged (that's a funny joke because I was using viper ghostface).
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is that not intentional?
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@mecca said:
You do know there is a lack of survivors right?
you do know that doesn't make old dead hard fun to go against right?
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@Rickprado said:
The biggest issue seems to be on the "catch up / Anti-snowball" mechanics: if you spread too many hooks survivors get a nice boost in gen repair speed without too much hidrance. They really should just give a minimal increase for hooks and a big boost in case someone dies early.
There were scenarios where almost everyone were on death hook but no one were dead yet. We lost 3 gens within minutes. Considering how fast heals and saves happes in this mode, i believe the anti-snowball boost should focus more in scenarios where someone is taken out of the game early than where most of the survs is close to death but not dead yet.
I agree. This mechanic is kinda necessary in an arcade style mode because you need them to be over faster and paced faster, but it feels a bit overtuned or misfocused. Like If you do well it feels like you get punished, maybe there's room for a less intrusive on core mechanics way to get a catch up. Maybe a secondary objective to revive one teammate.
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That's an idea thats been floating around for a while, I feel like its only a matter of time until it happens.
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thats most important for me, but all of the above really, depends on perspective or what u wanted from the build.
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@Abbzy said:
It wont be for one whole reason and thats because more people would play it instead of 1v4 which could have dome negative effects for the game, I believe more people like 2v8 its more chaotic and fun compare to 1v4.
I mean, if that were the case couldn't bhvr just pivot harder into 2v8. If something works better despite its downsides, shouldn't that be the focus.
I don't think 1v4 should be destroyed or deleted or anything but its foundations are so shaky it might be good to let it take a backseat for a bit. Its meant to be a party game, but it's grown so complex that it has become an entirely competitive game that is really difficult to get into. Think of all those fnaf creators that have not come back since springtrap. 2v8 is BHVR's best balanced game mode. The only imbalance I can think of is the on command sb which exclusively kills m1 killers.
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026810#Comment_4026810
Just put more killers into the mode with good mobility and anti-loop. Simply opening up the roster would do wonders for a lot of the gen problems.
literally, give me a springtrap or a xenomorph and all my issues with the mode go away. Besides on command sb because bhvr just loves bad ideas.
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I don't see why this got one downvote. Literally would just be a textbox that says 'Are you ready?'.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026467#Comment_4026467
But then you create a condition where an 8k is much more possible to achieve than an 8e. Keeping it a wildcard, where 4k/4e is most likely, is the best for the mode.
I agree a 4k is the best outcome for a balanced fun match and should be the target range, but that doesn't change the fact that a ton of killers cannot compete. Slinger, trapper, ghosty all get directly countered by the on command sprint burst, cannot patrol gens with any level of convenience and ultimately are just outmatched by the abundance of resources and speeds of gens.
They need to be made better. I personally only want the mechanic where hooks make gens faster to be toned down (although it is the arcade mode they can't let the matches go on forever) other than that, buffs for ghostface seems like a good start (since he barely got any to begin with).
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heres mine:
This is as a killer main in duos for all of my matches, The S tier killer is still decent but boring, the fun killer is still awful.
This is still dead on average, but I really shouldn't be winning this much. I haven't played survivor in literal months until this 2v8.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026397#Comment_4026397
While I agree with this, it's obvious survivor has not gained classes at the expense of killers being added. We've still not had a single new class since the start.
I don't think they are neglecting adding classes for killers. I think they're just not adding classes (or at least not making them yet). Given that we managed to get 2 class reworks already, I feel like if BHVR was cooking classes they'd already be ready.
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@Philscooper said:
i would love for them to stop adding killers and add classes instead for both sides.
neither has to come at the expense of the other. Especially if they take more time between iterations (which people have been asking for).
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Actor class, nah that's the Nicholas class. (also that sounds fun gimme)
I think for survivor we need more of the interactive perks that draw people off gens and such so I'd like some kind of prankster class. Deception and Diversion would add to the arcade feeling and maybe after a hook you can expend your diversion 'charge' to use chem trap, giving a new way of surviving chase.
For killer I really want old shadow back but besides that, maybe a class that kinda grows in power throughout the match. Like fire up and forever entwined. Not sure what the exact effects should be but I think it'd be cool. Other than that maybe a gen compromise class to kinda be a reverse guide class, maybe even let them kick exit gates to complete that mirror.
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I feel you. Luckily I usually play 2v8 in duos so I can always rely on someone but it gets tough to not get angry sometimes. If some survivor bags we usually double team then double bm back. Not noticed much slugging from the survivor angle tho, besides one oni but he has no choice really. I been tunnelled a couple times tho.
But this community loves just eating itself alive. I played a game of springtrap a few weeks ago (last time I played before 2v8) and I got eyrie and had a pretty fun, fair match. I had fun chases, got fun axe hits, good undetectable plays and I used the fast break meme build with oppression. I ended up catching two and two got out, which I was kinda happy about, they played their hearts out. I said gg. They called me a pos. I never tunnelled, insta picked up, didn't camp but somehow I'm a pos after actively being weak. Next game I got called the r slur for letting an obvious baby survivor escape.
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literally, everyone I see just preruns. I had a game of trapper on lerys and I found it practically impossible since you can't turn a corner without finding a window.
Also can we get rid of Lery's too its like the worst map in the game. (h/j)
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Just play another game man, you don't have to play an online game if you don't enjoy it.
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I think a lot of it is an issue with the perk system imo. Think about it, 4 perks with no limits means an affect can be applied over and over and over again stacking each time. The only perk genre that doesn't have that issue is exhaustion perks. This is why perks like haywire were nerfed, because perk stacking meant singularity could just destroy endgame. This is also why gen speed builds and heal builds can be so broken.
And BHVR has already created a system for fixing this. The 2v8 class system is that solution because they don't stack, you can have one class that gives you a series of buffs. Personally I think they could add a singular perk slot and add about 20 perks to start with and slowly add all the perks back in a reduced state more balanced for the Class system.
Proper balance of the 4 perk system would require testing every new perk and comparing how it works to all the other ones. (reminder, there are 161 survivor perks and 139 killer perks)
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The teal goes better with her hair imo
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xeno then knight.
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@TragicSolitude said:
On the one hand, I'd love picking survivors up to be a different button from searching lockers. On the other hand, I'm in the habit of spamming the pickup button while walking over the survivor (a bad habit, probably, but the game's lack of responsiveness and the way survivors crawl to mess up my actions has beaten it into me), so making the pickup and drop action the same button increases the risk of dropping a survivor when I don't want to. BHVR just needs to split the button binding options so players can choose.
I use a controller back paddle, the sensitivity is so good they cant even move.
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@QueenGob said:
and not even to mention every game I DC from has at least one other person who disconnects when I check match history. This is not a me problem.
steam has been a bit weird lately I've noticed, is that the platform you play on? I think Steam has been targeted by some cyber attacks lately but I haven't been keeping up with them.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021653#Comment_4021653
Two minutes for the first recovery is a long time and bleedout still exists. There's zero reasons to intentionally leave someone down that long. Survivor perks related to being in the dying state might see changes but you should be able to bring perks that interact with mechanics if you that's the build you want.
And the three people who like to 4man slug as Twins will just have to adjust. You shouldn't be able to slug a whole team without them having a chance at bouncing back.
I tend to agree but I would just like to say that its pretty easy to loose survivors who are slugged if you go for someone else and commit too hard. I have kinda dropped that habit, but sometimes I get lost in orbital attempts and forget to keep track of the slug.
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I empathise with the teabagging bit. In a game where I literally played for a 2k then I let people go I got called the R slur and called bad at the game (by a person with blue perks btw). All I wanted from that match was to get fun axe throws as springtrap and I succeeded. I then proceeded to spend 25 minutes conspiring with a carlos to get an obviously new player out the gate so they could have an escape. Yet I'm still insulted.
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surprised to see springtrap up so high tbh, I love playing him but when I play survivor he feels like I only see him once or twice in a long session. Although I don't use nightlight so maybe I just don't understand what the statistic means.
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I like this idea as a killer main, so long as there are also better hooking incentives than just bloodlust. Mainly, It needs to work so if a mikaela with no hooks unhooks a nancy on first hook, the killer would get more value for going after mikaela than waiting out and searching for nancy. This kind of insurance policy works towards that, but the killer should also want to not tunnel anyway, not have their hand forced.
Also teammates should be able to see a glowing outline of the unhooked survivors footsteps, and then have the unhooked survivor be invisible because that sounds fun.
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The feral predator is my personal favourite but I'd also love the king predator from killer of killers. That xeno tail cape would go so hard.
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@dbd900bach said:
One of the changes coming to the ptb is all killers getting tier 1 bloodlust after getting a unique hook on a survivor. A common thought about this reward is that its way too little to actually benefit the killers that need the most help, plus the restrictions that remove bloodlust before its duration runs out.
I think we can definitely afford to give more bloodlust, especially if its lost at the beginning of chase. The simplest answer is giving tier 2 or even tier 3 instead of tier 1 bloodlust. Faster traversal for killers with low mobility, but still inferior to killers with mobility based powers.
A second suggestion would be to give better bloodlust for each unique hook from tier 1 to tier 3 at max if you keep spreading hooks. Of course if they hook the same survivor back to back they don't get the bonus, and it resets to tier 1 on the next unique hook. I think this could be an interesting way to not only better enable weaker killers, but it also encourages spreading hooks. Yet, it would never be top oppressive due to the 15 second duration and how easy it is to lose the effect, which of course is lost during chase.
I feel like it could be tier 3 that degrades into tier 2 after like 5 seconds and stays there until the full timer is done.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021175#Comment_4021175
That was just an example but even if that data can be obtained somewhere else, redundancy in data is still very goodSure, but you also face the issue that people (probably) aren't going to stick around for too long for a game they are uninstalling and trying to get too much just might cause them to close the survey, making it a bad time to ensure redundancy.
I'd be better asking 'How many people uninstalled because of experiences from either role' because a survivor main could theoretically uninstall because of a bad killer experience and vice versa.I think the one issue here is that you create the possibility of 'pushing' answers onto the survey. If you have a survivor section, a killer section, and a general, potentially people are now answering there biggest problem with each. Which is definitely data, but its not 'why did you uninstall this game' and more of a general opinion survey.
I'm going to kick back to something you said to jesterkind
About the other data BHVR might have, I cannot respond to this because I have no idea what they have.That's the thing, none of us do. It's certainly possible BHVR's surveys are missing valuable answers for them in any number of directions. It's also possible that they already have the answers on the specific roles and/or they've found that these are the general issues that people have and they're focusing in on them.
That's why I have an issue with some people's insistence that the surveys have to include certain topics. None of us know where in the point of BHVR's data collection this survey falls or if those things would actually be meaningful data for BHVR.
You're not wrong on most of this, I also don't think you're right either since we are just disagreeing on collection strategies which are subjective. I suppose that I would prefer some indication that they are collecting information about the game as a whole that isn't just based around 2 issues (being camping or tunnelling (not even slugging for some reason)), and given that we don't know what they have I personally wouldn't give them that credit.
Although for the second point I wasn't talking about adding a killer section, just a couple options to the multiple choice question. Then you take those specific answers and compare them to each other, not necessarily give them their own section just 3 or so answers (survivor specific issues should have a similar amount but in the screenshot I showed they had only one). Then the rest of the question could be dedicated to more unaffiliated issues like bugs, cheaters, matchmaking times etc.
Also, can I just say its nice to argue with smart people making smart points. You don't get that much on the internet these days so this has been enjoyable.
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@Pulsar said:
All of the changes are underwhelming.
The whole update isn't going to fix anything, it just feels like they put something out there to say, "Here, we did something about it! Stop complaining!"
yeah. I can see an argument that this might just be a first step in preparation for more changes but these incentives are so miniscule that literally nothing will change.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021165#Comment_4021165
Gotcha. I didn't know this survey existed when I wrote that comment, that's pretty much the only important thing to say here.
I recall the previous survey did have questions about leaving, so that and the recent livestream are what I was talking about.
I still think this survey existing because BHVR already know who is leaving and want to know why is perfectly reasonable, but that's not what my previous comments were referencing.
yeah I didn't watch the livestream (hence why im avoiding talking about it like a viral illness) cos I was knocked out with a chest infection for a week and dbd discourse doesn't exactly sound like a fun bedbound activity. The best I can really catch up on is the survey from that screenshot because its not an hour long watch.
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My response to jesterkind with the screenshot might clear up my thoughts a bit better but i'll also try to respond to your points.
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021122#Comment_4021122
to answer the question 'which side has been leaving the most'Couldn't you just get that by having when a person uninstall it records on the survey the playtime for the sides? They don't need to ask, they have the data and asking just seems like an inferior way to gather it.
Even if they didn't do that, they can just look at the overall trend of player counts. If survivor numbers are going down and killer numbers are static, you're losing survivors.
This means the survey (intentionally or not) was biased, the information provides no room for comparison, which means there's no way to measure the severity of any of these issues.By what are you comparing?
Let's say a lot of people selected tunneling (to give a random number for discussion, let's say 30%). That means 30% of uninstalling players had that issue. Even if there is another issue that BHVR is missing, that's still 30% of people who had a problem. If you consider that a significant number, then you need to address it. It's not like people who quit because of a killer issue selected tunneling as their reason.
This isn't a public survey (we ranked the top ten complaints about DbD and they are…). It's a form for gathering data about why players quit that was likely designed off and goes along with their other data about the game.
As for the text boxes, those are impossible to accurately analyse because they cannot be graphed,Not really, if other is a big part of your graph its a clear indication the survey was missing needed options (and then someone needs to go and read and update the survey). But if not that many people are checking that option and are checking the options presented, you're getting a read of their feelings.
Again, even if such a survey is missing something, you're still getting data on what their problems are. It's far from their only data source and lots of other things go into what gets addressed (mainly how difficult is it and what are the other impacts it could have on the game).
- That was just an example but even if that data can be obtained somewhere else, redundancy in data is still very good. Math errors happen and in a game with as many coding errors as dbd I'd want to collect as much data from every source possible including (or maybe especially anonymous surveys). Also looking over my question, I'd be better asking 'How many people uninstalled because of experiences from either role' because a survivor main could theoretically uninstall because of a bad killer experience and vice versa.
- When I said comparison I didn't necessarily mean against every other option possible. Say there were 2 killer specific options, BHVR could then look over those 2 options and see which one was 'more' problematic (in terms of making more people quit). This could then give them a heading for their next round of major changes.
- as I said redundancy in data is very good to confirm and make your arguments rock solid. another issue is that the survey would have already been answered by people who were missing that option stunting the information you can possibly get from the updated one, a good survey should be built with more consideration.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021122#Comment_4021122
Isn't it an assumption that the question was "which side is leaving more"?
It's not impossible to imagine BHVR have some way of already knowing it's survivors, and so what they wanted was to answer the question "why are so many survivors leaving" instead.
Though for the record, that one specific question probably should have killer options, in my opinion. When I say that it's not really a problem for language and surveys to be geared towards survivors, I'm talking about the context of addressing tunnelling, which is a survivor problem- if BHVR are talking about it or asking questions about it, it's pretty reasonable that those comments and questions are geared more towards the side that experiences the problem.
Remember, the context here was also about a stream and comments therein that were supposedly survivor biased, not just any one survey.Basically, TL;DR, there's no reason to assume BHVR need information about both sides here when it's a survivor problem being discussed. If they already know which side has the answers they want, it's fairly reasonable to just ask that side the questions.
Could've been handled better, definitely, but I don't think it's inherently evidence of a bias.
I specifically am talking about the uninstall survey, this is where my big data collection issue is displayed. It's meant to provide information about why people are uninstalling and as I said the survey (not necessarily bhvr) is biased because of a lack of killer specific questions.
It's also so infuriating because an uninstall survey could have yielded so much good information about both sides and how the game is for both, but in that survey tunnelling and camping are both lumped together and slugging is entirely absent (which is wild to me) and killers don't have a real identifiable specific answer to the question based on the things they frequently complain about. This is a really bad way to do that because we cannot measure the severity of each issue seperately for both sides. If the experience that made me uninstall was a continuous chain of 4 man slug matches I'd have no way of communicating that in the actual graphable question. The more I look at this the more I'm realising that maybe its not that biased just a really bad survey.
specifically I'm going off this screenshot (ignore the red stuff I took this from a different thread)
About the other data BHVR might have, I cannot respond to this because I have no idea what they have. Unless they disclose all their working and their data on what goes on around tunnelling I only have their public surveys to go on and as I've mentioned I find them to be very poor.
Just to reiterate, I don't think bhvr is 'survivor sided' like a player may be, but I think they absolutely are data sided and this is the data they're collecting. It's not great, and given that the survivor playerbase is larger (therefore more will be leaving), collecting no data on killer players is a very bad decision because you cannot compare the issues killers are facing to each other and you cannot see which are the most severe essentially stunting the information they can collect.
Hopefully I better explained what my actual issue was here because my last message was a bit nebulous.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021103#Comment_4021103
I'm not sure I agree. Surely if you want information about a specific topic, a survey is one of the ways you could go about collecting that information?
I mean, any survey BHVR conduct is going to be geared towards the video game Dead By Daylight, for example, no survey is truly general. Why is it a problem for it to be geared towards a specific part of Dead By Daylight?
the issue was that the survey lacked questions specifically relating to the issues killers complain about. If I were looking at an ideal survey graph (with answers that were specific to either side) to answer the question 'which side has been leaving the most' I could then compare the killer specific answers to the survivor specific answers and see which category has been selected the most. I could also see what was the biggest issue selected by survivors and killers separately, I could make judgements of what should be high priority changes for both sides and generally I'd have a lot more information than 'people don't like tunnelling, slugging and camping'.
From what I've seen of this survey there was one survivor specific answer and a whole load of very general ones that killers could select but were too umbrella to really get any information from because survivor mains could also have these problems. This means the survey (intentionally or not) was biased, the information provides no room for comparison, which means there's no way to measure the severity of any of these issues.
As for the text boxes, those are impossible to accurately analyse because they cannot be graphed, and really act as filler which some poor employee is gonna have to mindlessly scan through and take a few notes on interesting quotes or what they see a lot of.
This isn't me being tribal btw, I don't mind the changes they've mentioned are coming to ptb. This is just bad data collection that provides no value other than throwaway statements. And given they take a data first approach, that is very troubling.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020018#Comment_4020018
I mean, this is a survivor problem we're all currently discussing here. Why wouldn't the surveys and language be primarily geared towards survivors?
It's not as though they never do anything for killers, or neglect to keep killers in mind for proposed changes. That's literally why the previous PTB had all those things delayed, it wasn't because it was causing problems for the survivors in those games.
I've seen this on the forums before, and it baffles me. Surveys are not meant to be geared towards anything, they are meant to be the whole picture which then can be converted into a graph for comparison. Having a survey geared towards anything is already a failure because it entirely nullifies comparison (one of the most important parts of data collection).