CyberDragoon656
CyberDragoon656
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741291#Comment_2741291
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/C96GJY9D4DQ0/image.png
It's old but only by about a year. There's been a ton of really strong killer stuff added so I would think it's around the same now.
No it would be lower to some like Kruger, deathslinger,Nemesis,twins for nerfs to basekit and add-ons and COH exist while some may star the same some took a noticeable hit.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741270#Comment_2741270
Because when you take a step back and look at the kill rate of players who are somewhat experienced (red ranks), it becomes a lot more devastating.
And that would be? ( % wise)
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741264#Comment_2741264
The devs mentioned that they're taking extra time on the Boons in general since it's such a major new system. They haven't said they think Boons are "fine", they're still reviewing them.
Given how the devs have been recently do you actually think they will do anything or just tell people to just deal with it like any other time?
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741248#Comment_2741248
Bruh this has been sent so many times, these are for ALL ranks, even new baby players that just started (which is the majority of players in this game).
It's the most recent one either way until we get a new one from BHVR this is all we got officially also not every has all perks or plays this as their job why should all skill brackets not be factored in that's why we have a perk pile with 2-3 perks that tank hits.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741170#Comment_2741170
They didn't nerf Artist since she went live. Nerfing on the PTB doesn't count as "nerfing right away", that's the whole point of the PTB.
As far as Pinhead goes he was released Sept 7 and they did a balance pass on some of his stuff November 30. That's a three month gap, not "right away".
My mistake thought it was sooner for pinhead but for Mikaela’s balance why would that have not been here since she released right after pinhead.
Also keep in mind the devs said boons are fine so they want these to be this way.
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@AngyKiller said:
While I see the point from the 'It's supposed to be an anti-tunnel perk' standpoint, I also think that may nerf it a little too much as, as gendoss said; the Survivor can't really DO anything while keeping D.Strike.
Honestly and it's hard to adjust for I would just say make it stop when you hide in lockers too have had a couple run and hide and still could use it along with that the harder one to adjust for is hook swarming if it's an anti tunneling perk don't swarm the hook with your allies cause chances are you will get downed.
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@CyberDragoon656 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741185#Comment_2741185
There are more examples but I figured maybe videos that go into it rather than showing more recent stuff of people who are killer mains quitting this game and going to something else like VHS.
As for the arguments for both survivors having reasonable arguments and the killer average first off its not way over 50% the most recent killer average that we got has the highest at 59% (cenobite) which by now thanks to COH is probably lowered and for the survivor arguments yes, some have reasonable complaints but how is it that those aren't really shown but ones that complain about camping and tunneling, noed and for a while lightborne are the ones consistently seen and the only worthwhile thing they use as an arguing point is that it's not fun to play against that. Meanwhile, you look at both tool kits and see that survivors have more broken perks than killer ATM.
You mention otz saying it's more around bad game design I agree on that however, who gets more out of it? Unless you are a killer with map pressure or have certain perks you're kinda screwed which like I said before not many do now the only killers still on top are nurse and blight and most other killers took a hit ot two or more with cases such as twins to the point where they are data that could be removed and no one would care.
Also wanted to add, for as much as you want to say killers are oppressing survivors take a little look around and you will see the exact opposite around the forums here.
The game is fubared at the moment but no matter who tries to say otherwise until something gets done it is survivor biased and even the way the devs go about their QnAs and hearing about multiple issues with this game, they usually are shown to be biased to one side especially with this new update.
Also here's the image of the killer %
Also seeing this again reminds me including COH look at who got nerfed in the mid patch then come back here and try to explain why on earth would they do this.
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@onekingbee said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741101#Comment_2741101
Yes, yes, and yes I agree completely!
Another thing I would like to add is that right now thanks to the meta not changing much and the top perks not getting tweaked most people have this mindset that everyone uses said perks so for things like BT,DH,DS ,UB and COH people think to get rid of them asap cause it will lead to problems later.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741009#Comment_2741009
This is kind of what my point was. Your first video is purely theoretical and from the perspective of a killer who's definitely making mistakes.
The second video is timestamped at a discussion about hex totems and how survivors can clear totems without any risk. First off: That's incorrect. You're moving around a ton as survivor to find and get rid of the totem, and you're exposing your location once you're done, AND you're spending time that you should be putting into gens. Secondly: it doesn't prove that the current balance is survivor-sided at all, in fact, it barely has anything to do with it. If it's meant to be some indication of survivor-sided bias on the devs, it does a pretty poor job for the aforementioned reasons, and additionally: Why should survivors be put into a complete lose/lose scenario for the simple fact that someone picked a hex?
The third video is pretty funny, to be honest. 'Survivor's so easy', but all he's showing is loops. If you keep an eye out for the things that actually matter for this discussion, you'll notice that in game one, there's one survivor dead at three gens left. In game two, where he's massively outplaying a pig that's really not doing a good job, it shows one gen left to be done, two dead, the other two injured (One even down at one point) and both remaining survivors having RBTs on them, meaning there's a zero percent chance that that match is any less than a 3K. The last match is him running down a hallway while the killer is in chase with someone else.
Not to mention it's almost widely agreed upon that high MMR is survivor-sided
But that's not evidence. And least of all, it's evidence when going by these forums, because anyone that says anything to the contrary is likely to get lambasted by about half the community here.
I am a stubborn jackass, so I'll dig my heels in and stick to what I believe, but I wouldn't be surprised if a LOT of survivor players show up on these forums, voice reasonable complaints, and then get so much crap from the forums that they quit.
How did this conclusion come to be? Because in all this time, I haven't seen evidence. I even began to accept it as truth because it got repeated so many times, but since Otz tossed out his experiment that showed he could get over a 2K while playing -perkless- and with a 30 second AFK timer, I'm getting doubtful.
Not to mention the fact that many flat out said that in order to even stand a chance at high rankings you have to camp and tunnel which leads to this game's best past time of dealing with toxic salty bullshit even more so if you one of the two viable options for high MMR the fact that you have to do a certain playstyle just to even keep up should be evidence enough to say it's survivor sided.
No, it isn't. That's three tactics you can use to push things in the killer's favour, and apparently quite overwhelmingly so. The fact that those tactics are bad for gameplay health has no bearing on balance; They are there, and they are part of the game. They are encouraged by a lot of members of this community, they are vigorously defended by a lot of the members of this community too, so that is the balance as intended by the community and it's what has to be considered.
And the truth is that a competent killer can have a blank loadout and AFK for 30 seconds and still have an option to win consistently. How is that survivor-sided?
It's as Otz says: The game balances by pitching really unfun tactics against one another. That's not survivor-sided, that's just ######### design.
And it's not gonna budge as long as people keep saying 'the game's survivor sided', in spite of the kill rates being well over 50% and in spite of Otz and several others showing that killers can consistently win matches even while stripped of perks and add-ons.
'But Otz plays this game a ton!'
And if a survivor complains on the forums, they'll be told they need to 'git gud'. When anyone does well, they're just 'low MMR' and should shut up because their balance input doesn't matter. But as soon as Otz shows that killers can play better, the clamouring for balancing to only consider high MMR suddenly stops.
This community is an absolute nightmare, and honestly I can imagine it's a primary reason the game feels bad to play for many people. It's impossible to go any direction with this meta because the forums want to preserve it.
There are more examples but I figured maybe videos that go into it rather than showing more recent stuff of people who are killer mains quitting this game and going to something else like VHS.
As for the arguments for both survivors having reasonable arguments and the killer average first off its not way over 50% the most recent killer average that we got has the highest at 59% (cenobite) which by now thanks to COH is probably lowered and for the survivor arguments yes, some have reasonable complaints but how is it that those aren't really shown but ones that complain about camping and tunneling, noed and for a while lightborne are the ones consistently seen and the only worthwhile thing they use as an arguing point is that it's not fun to play against that. Meanwhile, you look at both tool kits and see that survivors have more broken perks than killer ATM.
You mention otz saying it's more around bad game design I agree on that however, who gets more out of it? Unless you are a killer with map pressure or have certain perks you're kinda screwed which like I said before not many do now the only killers still on top are nurse and blight and most other killers took a hit ot two or more with cases such as twins to the point where they are data that could be removed and no one would care.
Also wanted to add, for as much as you want to say killers are oppressing survivors take a little look around and you will see the exact opposite around the forums here.
The game is fubared at the moment but no matter who tries to say otherwise until something gets done it is survivor biased and even the way the devs go about their QnAs and hearing about multiple issues with this game, they usually are shown to be biased to one side especially with this new update.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2738295#Comment_2738295
Note that they have done Mikaela’s balance pass yet, they normally do balance passes on brand new characters a few months after release. I was thinking it might have been this patch but maybe March for her? Either way when they do her pass it would include her perks including Circle of Healing and her add-ons, it’s only a matter of time.
Didn't stop them from nerfing pinhead and artist right away.
And do you really believe they will do something about it? It took them years to nerf ds, DH,UB and bt are still an issue and yet as soon as a killer get some power or strength "better nerf them"
Right now only 2 killers are viable to learn and the rest are not up to par in one way or another.
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@onekingbee said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740591#Comment_2740591
Read the comment again.
My comment was at 3am ,half awake and ended reading more stuff about the games balance issues but Yeah I did and pretty much said what was on my mind at the time while I can agree being the first one camped sucks I can't really blame killers at this point cause of the ######### MMR system,
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@StarLost said:
Woof, tough night. Really just trying to have fun with Scratched and Vanity Mirror Myers, actually getting pretty decent on them - but wow, do people not seem to like this playstyle (especially Scratched).
DCs the second I start getting hooks, endless teabags if someone gets away and of course, several variations on 'just play the game normally'.
Survivors...I'm not sure what you want from me here? More Nurse, Blight and Huntress? Tombstone and Lock Myers?
What exactly does 'normally' mean?
why is the mirror grounds for being an #########? from what I remember its infinite tier 2 and 1 respectivly but allows you to get more blood points right?
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@chargernick85 said:
I really dont know what your on about. PH is not better than Nemesis. PH is clunky as asf ever since they over nerfed his zoning ability....now his Potd shot is so telegraphed new survivors can dodge it. Yes but he can bypass DS and BT.....tell me you camp and tunnel without telling me you camp and tunnel.
Yes i have had zombies stuck doing nothing but they also block vaults, give info, and chase off gens. TO ME you just need to git gud with Nemesis because he is hands down the better option out of these 2 anyhow. He is actually oppressive in chase....ph is not.
no not really maybe it's just me but I have to agree that his power needs reworking it seems to be a bit too specific at times when it comes to where it needs to hit.
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@Canas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740939#Comment_2740939
He absolutely needs a sprint ability, he does it all the time in his own games after all. He's especially relentless in the remake where he can literally jump in front of the survivor to cut off their escape. The version of Nemesis we received got heavily neutered, he's just a husk of his former self now. Truly a disservice to this legendary pursuer, he needs drastic changes to regain his glory.
same can be said for almost all licensed killers PH and Pinhead are the only ones that people seem to say are good, a lot.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2739291#Comment_2739291
Has there been evidence showing the game is survivor sided?
this is only a little bit but https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4oiwK5-TW0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1eMK1LvFI8&t=1126s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2PyBtGHjLY
Not to mention it's almost widely agreed upon that high MMR is survivor-sided because most of the time its SWF groups however Since there's not really anymore high MMR killers (for one reason or another) the matchmaking is borked and causes long time players to get paired up with people who can't even compete as well deterring any newcomers from continuing to play this game.
Also, take a look and I mean really take a look at the tool kits for each side and tell me why is it that while survivors will complain about NOED they have 2-3 meta perks that can tank hits/save them from error/reward them for ######### up.
Not to mention the fact that many flat out said that in order to even stand a chance at high rankings you have to camp and tunnel which leads to this game's best past time of dealing with toxic salty bullshit even more so if you one of the two viable options for high MMR the fact that you have to do a certain playstyle just to even keep up should be evidence enough to say it's survivor sided.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740974#Comment_2740974
The Leon and nemmy model were directly taken from the remakes. And yes I think remake nemmy looks very solid
Compare this
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/B3N9PCSSBH40/25e7cfed-4cb4-49ed-acfd-e357ceb43d78.jpeg
To this
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GGR5CNVVFURC/004bd3e3-8c13-4775-bcd7-e8ab58e82b55.jpeg
Ok for me yes when the leon and nemesis looked better than F13 counselors that haven't rendered yet. However, I am going to be real and say I hate the RE Chapters characters designs because its the remake
Like I said Leon might as well be a skin for trickster with how he looks, Chris does have some hair issues that I have seen myself and for nemesis.. you're telling me that instead of this
to this
I will admit I was wrong about the games graphics quality at times but then theres stuff like this as well
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@grayon444 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740841#Comment_2740841
I mean DBD is alive and Friday the 13th is dead.
So that alone gives you a better idea of which game was better.
Just because you think it was better doesnt mean that everyone agrees with you. Infact i dont even know why you are here if you think Friday is better. This game has 554 players which is enough for a lobby. So go play this game if you dont enjoy DBD.
No, it doesn't mean it's better it's the only game of its kind now if you wanna spout out "this game is better cause it's still around " then that means EA sports games are better than DBD cause it has higher sales numbers and can even sell the same game twice to people even though we both know that's not true.
Like I said it was more about how they got the mechanics better than dbd I do not care for sales numbers and unlike what you keep posting about I am also not trying to defend a game by just spouting out nonsense. Am I to expect the same when VHS goes into early beta or Evil dead releases next month?
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740846#Comment_2740846
The RE ones (barring Claire) all look great especially nemmy and Leon. While all the Jason’s in F13th look pretty good the counsellors all look awful especially Shelly and Chad
oh really so you like Leon looking like an anime protagonist, nemesis using that god-awful re3 remake version of him and Chris having parted hair down the middle.
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@CyberDragoon656 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740851#Comment_2740851
And this one:
This game is best when you start playing it and you're noob. The best is when you're survivor and play against a noob killer because the game is actually fun, tense and fair. When you get to know the meta it starts to become frustrating. Here's what happens then:
Survivors complain killers are OP because they have insta-down power, can teleport/charge across the map, can camp, can know exactly where you are, have ruin/undying/tinkerer/pop (some of the bests perks of the game).
Killer complains survivors are OP because they loop perfectly, makes you loop the same big building like 3 times in a row before you can even hit them once, makes you eat pallet in the face every 10 steps, and finally hook a survivor after 3-4 gens are done already. All 4 of the survivors have decisive strike which allow them to get off the killer's grasp, or borrowed time which allows them to be hit without being injured X seconds after being saved from a hook, so essentially just stalling for even more times just so you have to chase those survivors even more, wasting you so much time in one single chase while all 5 gens pops.
I'm amazingly noob at this game, but I learned the meta by watching A LOT of killer/survivor streamers. I think the huge problem of this games are the perks. There is just too much now. A perk is essentially a passive, a power, you can equip. The thing is, this game allows the perk of one survivor/killer to be learned by other survivor/killers. Imagine how dumb it would be if in a moba, every single hero/champion/whatever could learn and use every single skill in the game? What would happen?
Of course, EVERYBODY would uses the same 4-8 most powerful skill regardless of character (best stun, damage, healing, CC skills and who cares about the rest. It's really what's happening with DBD. Survivor and killer running almost always the same powerful perks because 3/4 of all the perks are completely useless or obsolete. It's really hilarious. A new killer/survivor appears with their own new perks, and then the same old perks are used on them anyway. It's really dumb. I also think it causes hell for behaviour to balance the game.
The game has become unfun and repetitive. Get looped the same way every game, loop the killer the same way every game, use the same perks every game, cleanse the ruin/undying totem every game. I think behaviour needs to add new STUFF to do in the map beside throwing pallet on the killer and balance the game around it. It's never gonna happen. The game is 4 years old and too much people playing it still. Too much of a risk. Anyway, game's a real bore for me. I even got bored to hell watching the streamers.
And while yes some things for this one are obsolete the main body of it is true however.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740655#Comment_2740655
User points in something like DBD is meaningless, how many disgruntled Survivor and Killer mains have given 0 points because "that will teach BHVR for nerfing DS/Ruin!".
And this one:
This game is best when you start playing it and you're noob. The best is when you're survivor and play against a noob killer because the game is actually fun, tense and fair. When you get to know the meta it starts to become frustrating. Here's what happens then:
Survivors complain killers are OP because they have insta-down power, can teleport/charge across the map, can camp, can know exactly where you are, have ruin/undying/tinkerer/pop (some of the bests perks of the game).
Killer complains survivors are OP because they loop perfectly, makes you loop the same big building like 3 times in a row before you can even hit them once, makes you eat pallet in the face every 10 steps, and finally hook a survivor after 3-4 gens are done already. All 4 of the survivors have decisive strike which allow them to get off the killer's grasp, or borrowed time which allows them to be hit without being injured X seconds after being saved from a hook, so essentially just stalling for even more times just so you have to chase those survivors even more, wasting you so much time in one single chase while all 5 gens pops.
I'm amazingly noob at this game, but I learned the meta by watching A LOT of killer/survivor streamers. I think the huge problem of this games are the perks. There is just too much now. A perk is essentially a passive, a power, you can equip. The thing is, this game allows the perk of one survivor/killer to be learned by other survivor/killers. Imagine how dumb it would be if in a moba, every single hero/champion/whatever could learn and use every single skill in the game? What would happen?
Of course, EVERYBODY would uses the same 4-8 most powerful skill regardless of character (best stun, damage, healing, CC skills and who cares about the rest. It's really what's happening with DBD. Survivor and killer running almost always the same powerful perks because 3/4 of all the perks are completely useless or obsolete. It's really hilarious. A new killer/survivor appears with their own new perks, and then the same old perks are used on them anyway. It's really dumb. I also think it causes hell for behaviour to balance the game.
The game has become unfun and repetitive. Get looped the same way every game, loop the killer the same way every game, use the same perks every game, cleanse the ruin/undying totem every game. I think behaviour needs to add new STUFF to do in the map beside throwing pallet on the killer and balance the game around it. It's never gonna happen. The game is 4 years old and too much people playing it still. Too much of a risk. Anyway, game's a real bore for me. I even got bored to hell watching the streamers.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740655#Comment_2740655
User points in something like DBD is meaningless, how many disgruntled Survivor and Killer mains have given 0 points because "that will teach BHVR for nerfing DS/Ruin!".
and most critics can't be trusted because of obvious reasons also there are a lot who say the game is fun but everything outside of the basic game sucks (I.E perks, grind, community, etc) and that last one is the biggest there are many, many people who have put a review up are being positive of gameplay but hate the community it spawned.
However I will also say while yes some may do what you said but I checked some of those reviews and to be honest most are quite true such as this one here:
Basically an example in how to structure an on-going game in such a way as to alienate new players and drive them away. The theme is fun for a while but the whole horror aspect quickly wears thin. The progression grinds are completely out of control. The microtransactions are predatory. The community wears toxicity as a badge of honour. The developers do nothing but release endless MTX content that you simply can't avoid buying if you actually want to enjoy yourself. Public queues are a flaming pile of rotten horse manure. Frustration is the only thing you're guaranteed to experience if you play this with randoms.
Custom Matches, on the other hand, are a breath of fresh air. The pressure to progress is lifted. Every perk and item is unlocked for everyone. The toxic community who taunt your every move and spam racial slurs in post-game chat on an hourly basis is locked out. The MTX suddenly seems a lot more reasonable now it's not associated with hundreds of hours of grinding per purchase. The action suddenly becomes fun! You and your friends will probably have a pretty good time if you spend a few hours together in voice chat, laughing and joking and just enjoying yourselves without the pressure to progress dogging your every move.
Which just goes to underline how completely the developers have mismanaged the public queues and progression systems. Never pay full price for this, and make sure you know people who have it because you don't ever EVER want to hit that "Ready" button with strangers.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2739032#Comment_2739032
I’m sorry but if you think that Spirit’s nerfs hurt her strength that much, then you’re just not good with her. Hate to say it, but it’s true.
Well hard to say since this game has too much reliance on perks, add-ons and rng there is a dip in spirit's strengths especially since ATM survivors have way too many safety nets and can make playing killer borderline intolerable.
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better than most survivor models especially the RE ones.
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@grayon444 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740639#Comment_2740639
Yes DBD was beating Friday the 13th in numbers.
And if the dev team behind Friday the 13th was passionate they would still be fixing bugs to this day.
But no they just left this game in the mud with its fans. The lawsuit prevented the devs from adding content but i did not prevent them from fixing the game.
So they won in numbers of sales (Even though now the average score for both is close to the same in reviews) big deal it still doesn't exclude the fact that F13 had better mechanics and was actually more balanced when things were said and done.
The game was also P2P connected which DBD suffered from until they got servers and as for passionate really the fact that F13 got actual people from the movies to help them sure as ######### seems better than DBD making all their licensed characters a complete joke nowadays.
I never said the game was flawless but Ignoring the fact that they did better mechanics and ideas than DBD shows if they had more time and money and not had to deal with the other stuff maybe it could have been better, yes maybe they got complacent and just wanted to leave the game but I don't know that and neither do you.
And as for the bugs and the last thing you said let me answer you with this if you are willing to blister the devs of F13 for bugs, saying they left it's fans high and dry basically and that they should have been able to fix the bugs either way what's BHVR's excuse then? (Reworking nurse after years of knowing she needed code fixed, broken maps that rely too much on rng, slow patches to survivor perks that are exploited meanwhile leaving killers nerfed as soon as something goes wrong, the entirety of the twins debut, almost every new chapter and update being showered by a new wave of more bug than fixes and much much more.)
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740781#Comment_2740781
just to clarify- who is "the guy" complaining about lightborne? Scott, myself or another? I saw a lot of posts complaining about people complaining about it but never saw one actually complaining about the perk (that wasn't low tier bait anyway).
And which one of us are you saying doesn't play a lot of killer? I think Scott and I are probably both killer mains but I haven't kept up to date with Scott tbh...
I'm not sure if you replied to my comment in error or not because you seem to be responding to things I didn't say or mention...
As for the specific comment you replied to (and link invokved) it details how camping isn't effective and details why. What other CCs have gone into such detail regarding this and proven otherwise?
I don't know why but the forums messed my message up again cause none of that post was to you but to the one who posted Scott's video claiming that the camping and tunneling are bad moves.
At this moment and time, I have to admit I can't take Scott seriously cause much like some forums on here it seems to cherry-pick certain ideas and reasons as to why certain people say things without understanding it along with the poster of the video seemingly ignoring evidence from other CC that disagrees with the claims and while yes, certain things can be missed naturally something such as lightborne's use and camping and tunneling are shown to work for the situations that warrant it however just saying they are bad much like the tournament video saying it's balanced without the reasons why they that way (Such as what did the killer use, what map, what tactics were used by both sides, etc ) shows that certain points were not viewed or flat out ignored in favor of a delusional idea that what they say is right.
And for your last point, Otz on numerous occasions has stated that at high MMR tunneling and camping are needed to an extent.
Also Just wanted to say if the game truly is balanced why then are so many killer mains who have played this for a long time suddenly leaving in favor of other games (I.E VHS or eventually games like Elden ring ) or flat out just switched to survivor in a time where survivor times are getting longer and longer especially for solos.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740791#Comment_2740791
I do think in an asymmetrical game the side with people that requires teamwork needs to be easier than the solo side. Mainly because you are punished for your teammates mistakes and as the solo role you either win or lose on your own merit.
DbD is an odd fish to balance given the sheer enormity of RNG involved. Maps are a huge part (size and loop spawns) and even map offerings don't guarantee specific tiles. The killer chosen. As killer are your perks going to help you against these specific survivors. Are the survivors swf? Are they any good? Do they have perks to counter you/your perks/ability.
So much RNG makes things almost impossible to balance. However, removing the RNG would just make the game repetitive and boring (ie MMR).
They also need to be less afraid of minor tweaks to perks. This mid chapter changes nothing really except for 2 perks.
Maps are the main thing that needs to be balanced. Map reworks are great but map reworks at the loss of new maps and realms will just bore the current playerbase.
TLDR: The best way to balance the game is to firstly balance the maps. Once that's done they can more easily balance from there.
To a point, you are right however what makes a map balanced is subjective to some people along with some factual issues such as pallet placement and such.
Right now the biggest problem to me at least is 2 things along with the maps
The over-reliance on perks and the constant nerfs to killers
while true that some needed tweaking the devs have gone too overboard and made it a scenario where due to both the map's rng and what perks they use survivor can be easy to the point where you can be the worst survivor ever and still win most matches and killers having no way to counter it other than specific plays, tactics and perks.
As for the game being boring yes, MMR and SBMM is borked to all hell but part of that is due to the stale meta that only slightly budged due to COH with for some reason the devs refuse to touch these perks but will nerf and rework killers to a supposed "Balance" while leaving everything else unattended to.
Whether its for money, fear of newcomers leaving,a lack of balance understanding or something else, right now, it's easy to say that along with the glaring issues outside of matches, there's a good case to be made about it being onesided as well.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719346#Comment_2719346
Who is asking the killer to play "easier"? Nobody is asking for free escapes or to not play the game. Leaving a hook and going for somebody else, stopping them from doing gens, etc. isnt going "easier". Its playing the game.
I'm just grateful BHVR have said they'd address this as its one of the most boring things in this game.
Maybe not make the killer play easier however there is definitely evidence of people wanting survivor to be basically braindead easy mode to the point where the game should be PvE and played with a crappy AI bot.
And let's take into account all the stuff that this game offers now what exactly do you think BHVR will do to alleviate this without making survivor, even more, piss easy than it already is.
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@Unicorn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2721103#Comment_2721103
Right.
& sadly, this is majority of Killers lately that I face. Idk if they’ve had previous bad games & want to take it out on others but its such a toxic cycle to be in. Having a few previous bad games is not an excuse to be *BLEEP* and take it out on others. If you ask me, its quite a childish way to deal with your frustrations. Unfortunately, this will never change though. Just gonna have to learn to tolerate it.
edit: the forums didn’t censor my curse word so I did it myself because I really would prefer NOT to be jailed atm.
I can tell at least in my experience it's hard to distinguish between a survivor just playing the game and a "survivor" who bms and bullies people. Unfortunately, due to how this game manages ######### behavior most are geared to believing everyone acts like this and it becomes a generalization of both sides as a whole.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2720183#Comment_2720183
Even Scott has a video detailing how camping and tunneling is rarely the best idea. Yes there are circumstances where the situation calls for it but its never a good idea to go into the match with the mentality "I need to camp at 5 gens to win"
So this is the guy who will say the game is balanced but any tactic that the killer uses is bad (I.E using lightborne to ward off, flashlights tunneling and camping is a bad idea even though some killers have to due to nerfed basekit and etc ) and also doesn't play much killer but sure let's just take his word for it and not any other CC who has shown and said that the game is unbalanced and some killers need to play a certain way just to stand a chance on certain match brackets.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740655#Comment_2740655
I’ll certainly take your word for it, never played it personally. 🤷♂️
It is buggy and has issues but the fact that counselors in that game have both strengths and weaknesses makes them much more desirable than dbd's palette swap dress up dolls cause 1 you actually have to make a team that isn't all the same people basically and 2 they are not overly reliant on perks to survive
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740669#Comment_2740669
Ok so when I say that the game isn't as survivor sided as people say it is I'm including camping and tunneling. Why does it matter if killers have to camp and tunnel it's part of the game and it's what helps them catch up. Honestly I don't believe you only need top tier killers to win, there are a lot of killers that are great that nobody talks about like Hillbilly and Twins.
Hillbilly and twins suck because of different reasons hillbilly got an overheating mechanic involved that makes him a worse version of Leatherface now and as for twins they have multiple bugs and now no real add-ons to speak of making them as undesirable as deathslinger now.
Also like I said while most killers can be fun only 2 are viable in every skill bracket meaning that unless you play a certain way or have to basically turtle the game it doesn't matter if it helps them catch up or not cause it's not the killer's gameplay that is helping that side win it's tactics that are basically forced on them thanks to ######### balancing by the devs and you also said it yourself.
"It's what help them catch up " why would they need that to catch up if survivors or more specifically their perks and items are not overpowered to an extent
the only time survivors can say the killer is op is if it was all solos with ######### perks but thanks to the fact that swfs and comms exist that possibility is minuscule now cause everybody expects it now.
Also I just wanted to add that this new update almost guaranteed that even more killers are going to be trashed in favor for someone else.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
Pretty important to concider that it's only a second off when they hit the progressively harder skillchecks. Most survivors won't do this concistantly.
And how often does it happen you are hooking a survivor in that last second? I think it would already be an exaggeration if it happened once every 100 matches
I would have prefered that hitting great skillchecks had a bigger push effect on the killer instead of wiggling faster but while technically a buff it's so insignificant that it's really not worth worrying about.
Oh it can still happen especially with the nonsense of people crouching in front of the hook to stop you.
also no I have to disagree about the idea great skill checks moving the killer cause with some maps like the game, rpd and some versions of the larger maps it can royally screw over killers putting people on hooks due to pallet and debris placement.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740649#Comment_2740649
What evidence do you have that the game is truly survivor sided? Even tournaments that have no restrictions on them come out to being balanced (slightly killer sided but negligible). Personally I have hardly seen any stats or evidence to show that the game really is survivor sided outside of people just saying that it is based on their own experience which is never a good thing to go off of.
How about the fact that no one can say that killer can be played without camping and tunneling along with sweaty perks and techniques now?
Maybe the fact that certain killers don't see much play or any at all now such as deathslinger, twins, and trapper might be evident enough for you along with the fact that most people say that the only top-tier killers are nurse and blight which have similar kits factors into that.
What about the fact that if you read and look at how people use survivor perks including using an anti tunneling perk in a way that encourages it and tanking hits, a distancing perk used to tank iframes, and a healing perk that stacks with medkits to allow 2 sec healing times.
The fact that people using tournaments is also wrong cause it's much like saying TF2 tournaments are all skill-based even though the game has so much RNG and some weapons (Much like DBD perks) are busted or have broken tactics and need to be looked at.
The evidence is there and taking one area of the game as evidence shows how laughable the idea that anyone can say the game is killer based when it's not true at all.
Along with the fact that as much as people want to say that the tournaments shows the game is balanced none ever really go into who did they use and what tactics and builds did they use unless you watch the whole thing.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740641#Comment_2740641
Dead by Daylight PC is 71 on Metacritic, Friday the 13th is 61. A 10 point difference isn’t insignificant.
for critic reviews yes its 71 and 61 user is 5.8 dbd and 6.1 for F13 im not saying that dbd sucks and is worse than F13 but I am saying there are some better features in F13 than dbd
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740595#Comment_2740595
Well if that's the case then people still need to admit the game is not as survivor sided as it's made out to be, be it for actual balance or SBMM #########.
It is an actual balance or SBMM bullshit mainly however it is still survivor sided because if you look at the toolkits and the fact that one side lives and dies by the perks and items while the other has perks,base kit, and addons to factor in its easy to tell that as of right now it is survivor sided.
When you only have 2 killers that are Viable in every skill bracket along with how easy survivor second chance perks can be for lack of a better work exploited it's no wonder people think this way as well.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740606#Comment_2740606
If the game had been doing well and had been better received then the current IP owners might have allowed the developers to maintain their license after they won their lawsuit. That wasn’t the case though, the game got fairly weak reviews and sold far fewer copies than DbD did (something like half the sales in its first six months compared to DbDin its first six months).
I was more meaning the game would have been a much better experience than it was cause to be honest it did things better than dbd and could be more balanced too.
and honestly, right now both games are relatively similar now in terms of review scores.
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@grayon444 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740606#Comment_2740606
You do know Friday 13th died a month after release?
Game was a flop with game breaking bugs. Check the steam charts.
DBD was beating this game in every way.
yes the same could be said with dbd when if first came out but it was fixed however you can't just say that "oh the game is dead" without factoring in why that happened in the first place.
also tell me this if the game was fixed or at least where this game is now and didn't have the legal bullshit attached which would be seen as more of an enjoyable experience
and no dbd was not beating the game in every way cause I can tell you I would much rather have F13 counselors than DBD perk based pallette swap dress-up dolls and while not all jasons were made equal at least most can still be worth playing something that dbd cannot say for its killers atm.
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As of right now none cause I don't want to think less about the characters added but in a perfect world where this game was balanced
1 Ludwig from Bloodborne
2 Xenomorph
3 The amalgam from evil within
4 Sweet tooth or calypso from twisted metal
5 Monokuma from danganronpa
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@[Deleted User] said:
guess which game is dead
You do realize development for F13 was canned due to legal reasons right? If it got all squared beforehand I could see it being better than DBD cause it's not truly one-sided and had some better mechanics than DBD.
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@some_guy1 said:
does dbd have a bug that's exploited by cheaters to make lobbies have 20+ people? i dont think so
No just people who can hold the game hostage and stuffed with people who act like babies if they get caught doing it.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
Don't you know some killers don't care about BP?
If they tunnel you they would have tunneled you regardless, because you got get many points if you are tunneling anyway.
Maybe cause no matter what BP is minuscule nowadays.
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@Junylar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740576#Comment_2740576
So either SBMM doesn't work and must be scrapped immediately, or killers are indeed OP and should be nerfed immediately. One of the two conclusions can be drawn.
Im leaning more in the SBMM is bullshit camp cause seeing how some people play and still win kinda defeats the whole purpose of it being skill and more it being that they got good RNG
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"If a survivor tbags let them do it" really? Well then in that logic " If a Killer camps you for bming let him do it" should be viable as well.
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@CowabungaDude said:
My takes on all "second chance" perks:
deliverance - has a pretty good chance of not even activating in the first place. and this isnt really a second chance perk, it just saves your teammates time
dead hard - okay you got me here
borrowed time - discourages the arguably most unfun way to play the game. no problem
decisive strike - same deal as bt
adrenaline - needs to be earned by completing all 5 generators. its not like you just get it served to you
unbreakable - dont greed for 2 downs and this shouldnt be a problem
Ok sure but lets add this to a few prospects
Dead Hard- Rewards getting hit and comes with i frames thanks to hit validation (just wanted to add this)
Borrowed time- encourages hook swarming and body blocking right of the hook
Decisive strike - Same as borrowed time only include rewards bad locker hiding too.
The biggest problem with second chance perks in my opinion is that they reward survivors for making bad plays and while yes NOED can be seen the same way however since most hex perks suck now thanks to totem placement and most perks are garbage or way too situational nowadays anyway what other choice is there other than just going afk and not even bothering at times.
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@The_Krapper said:
The game is actually pretty balanced even though that's unpopular to say on here, there are top tier killers meant to be used for facing the death squads who give you a chance at killing even the best survivors, meanwhile there are lower tier killers who stand no chance at high level but people enjoy playing them and that's where alot of complaints come from due to the fact they felt helpless trying to win against optimal survivors using wraith, legion or clown for example, but the way they matchmake is what makes the game feel unbalanced when you're a new survivor facing a killer with thousands of hours or vice versa, there are alot of people who are terrible at the game on both sides which there's nothing wrong with that but if you're one of those that aren't very good then this game can seem impossible for either side when matched with the right opponent, right now it's the best it's ever been for killers even though alot of people won't admit that, survivor has been nerfed quite a bit over the years but as long as gen speeds remain the way they are then survivors will always feel strong to those who play killers who can't physically get to gens fast enough or end chases fast enough.
if Survivors has been nerfed quite a bit why are they using the same perks they have always used, also remember now that both boons and the new wiggle mechanic are a thing we might as well throw the nerf idea out the window.
Along with that why shouldn't more killers be Viable right now the only ones that are are nurse and blight, meanwhile all the others (who people have paid for mind you ) have taken hit after hit when it comes to nerfs and most now are passed or on the border of not being worth the money that people spent while survivor are basically pallette swaps with a perk build.
Also, this most recent update shows that killers are or will soon be a side no one wants to play since now there are fewer viability options thanks to the add-on nerfs add the mmr and sbmm issues that are rampant now and you have a recipe for alienating one side of your game that is already lacking in players.
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So any other evidence that shows that the game is survivor sided should be ignored but just cause one video from otz which the stats he put out needs to be put into question and scott who barely plays killer now.
Not to mention both do not have the most recent patch and both are being paid to play this game so they have more time than most.
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@CowabungaDude said:
Because most of the feedback is more like "FIRE EVERYONE OFF THE STUDIO YOU CANT CODE YOU CANT LISTEN NOBODY LOVES YOU I HOPE YOU ALL DIE" instead of "Hey bhvr i think X is really op because X and would like to see you change it"
Part of that is people being pissed off and part of that is "oh great another update that adds nothing of value for balancing your game why bother supporting this anymore"
Let's face it the game is slowly dying and while some say the ring dlc might help it won't in the long run.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/303875/this-game-becomes-more-and-more-survivor-sided
The fact that this post got 7 up votes is so baffling. No elaboration, just pure “game is survivor sided” drama. Do you just ignore DS nerfs, OOO nerfs, Wretched Shop being made dead zone city, and adding in two recent meta perks: Deadlock and Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance?
That's cause people agree that it's survivor sided.
The ds nerf is a joke and OoO might as well been replaced with boon perks.
Almost no maps are killer sided due to placement of totems, hooks and so on.
Totems themselves thanks to garbage placement and spawn areas might as well be a survivor mechanic cause unless you have a dedicated build to utilize the totems hexes get snuffed out or cleansed in the matter of 30 -40 seconds in the beginning.
And for the perks do remember you still have to grind for them to get them unlike survivors who have the advantage of everyone just being a pallet swap and even then the killers that those perks belong to got nerfed so why bother investing in it. It's much like most nerfs to killers nowadays you invest time and points into them and you make them garbage the only viable ones that are constantly showed on the forums are blight and nurse now cause whether it's perks,add ons or base kits most others have taken a hit.
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@Labrac said:
Buy only licensed content. Everything else you can grind shards.
From the licensed content, the only one I say every player should 100% get is Leatherface for BBQ because it can potentially cut your BP grind in half. Everything else is a matter of taste.
Halloween: Myers is weak but generally fun to play, STBFL is good, DS is good.
Nightmare on Elm Street: Freddy is ok but generally boring to play, perks are trash although Blood Warden is fun.
Saw: Pig is weak and I don't find her fun to play as, Make Your Choice is good on some killers, Detective's Hunch is decent.
Ghostface: killers is weak but generally fun to play, Thrilling Tremors is very good, I'm All Ears is decent.
Ash: perks are trash. Only buy if you're really into Evil Dead and want to play the survivor.
Silent Hill: PH is strong and very fun to play as, perks are trash.
Resident Evil: Nemesis is ok but generally fun to play, Lethal Pursuer is very good, Flashbang and Blast Mine are fun to use.
Hellraiser: Pinhead is ok but frustrating to play, Deadlock is a meta perk, Plaything is very good.
So only a select few are worth it cause remember I said it needs to factor all of the chapter and for the most part it's the perks are fine but the killer isn't up to par as they should
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@CheesyGuy said:
It is not the patches or nerfs that are hurting the killer but it is the dependency that is killing the killer gameplay. First of all, I play both sides and mostly survivor-sided but I also play killer quite a time. I can say easily that killers are really dependent on their add-ons, perks, powers, and maps. Without decent perks and maps, the killer can go from 4k to no-kill. That is the main issue DBD should have issued and try to fix it. The game is not survivor or killer sided it is just easier for survivors especially if they are SWF and choose their maps and etc... The problem is there should be more balanced maps and some base systems such as gen regression should be changed.
That's because the devs ######### up and made most basekits garbage so in order to circumvent that they need certain perks just to be playable.