Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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@Lost_Boy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728805#Comment_3728805
That's not how I counter 360s. I literally watch the survivor trying to spin me and track them and hit a short attack afterwards to score a hit on them. I've been doing it for years and it works fine for me. Wether some of those short attacks are forced due to a bug doesn't really effect me because I'll mostly use short attack anyway in that scenario.
Its also a bug that may or may not happen all the time due to server latency so if you're used to trying to score a hit on a player with a lunge in those scenarios and you happen to only get a short attack then it's something out with your control & you could miss fairly easily.
Just because you don't use the same method it doesn't mean it doesn't work 😂
So your solution is to just never ever lunge at a survivor? Because I’ve had many times where the survivor starts their 360 immediately when I’ve started holding the M1 button.
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@Lost_Boy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728752#Comment_3728752
Yeah it probably does mess with the attack sometimes but short attacks are also a way to counter someone trying to spin you in a lot of cases.
I have seen that short attack bug make me miss though on other occasions when not being spun it's pretty annoying.
Short attacks are never a way to counter someone trying to spin you, because you are literally forced into short M1 attacks if you are that close to a survivor. This means you don't have the option to lunge when you are close to a survivor… so there's no choice here.
In fact, the reason why the forced short M1 attack bug steals hits, is because it forces a short M1 attack, and then hit validation says the survivor is too far away for a short M1 attack to hit.
The actual way to counter 360s WOULD be to always lunge, and quickly follow the survivor's movement with your camera, and people with a half decent DPI should be able to do that. And that's my prediction on why the bug hasn't been fixed yet. Many survivors honestly think they've "outplayed" a killer when they 360, because they have zero clue that a game bug exists that steals hits from the killer, and that 360s help trigger this bug.
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@Lost_Boy said:
Spinning barely ever works and when it does you gain about 1-2 seconds in chase lol. You might as well just keep going forward.
It is significantly easier to get spun when playing on console though due to a mixture of FPS & FPV. The difference between PC and console is quite significant and it's so much easier to lose track of a survivor during a spin and after a hit if they spin into your FPV on console.
Spinning sometimes works because of the forced short M1 attack bug, that can steal hits from the killer. This isn't a "skill issue" for the killer. It's a bug in the game that literally steals hits from the killer.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
Killers are forbidden to lunge if they are too close to a survivor. It doesn't matter if a killer is holding a direction and the M1 button at the same time, because the game will force a short M1 tap attack if the killer tries to attack while right next to a survivor.
I'd even claim that many of the aim dressing complaints involve this short M1 tap bug, because if a killer is expecting to be able to do a full lunge attack, and they purposely turn their camera toward an object because lunges have zero object collision (and therefore they are expecting to be able to curve around objects with their lunge), that when the killer is forced into a short M1 tap attack, they can easily hit an object next to them and think the problem was aim dressing.
BHVR should also look into the possibility that the game might be forcing short M1 tap attacks, even though the survivor might be out of range by the time the hit validation snapshots are taken, which means that the forced short M1 tap attack might be stealing a hit, because the killer could have reached the survivor if they were allowed to lunge attack.
The game sometimes forbids the killer to lunge, and forces a short M1 attack instead, which can steal hits from the killer. And if you're trying to lunge, and expecting to be able to curve around an object with zero collision, then the unexpected short M1 attack can cause the killer to quickly spin and hit a nearby object. Also, the same mechanic can forcibly yank the camera away from the killer.
The summary is aim dressing has proximity checks, that are COMPLETELY SEPARATE from hit validation checks. And the game sometimes forcibly does things to killers because of the proximity checks, and then steals hits from the killer during the hit validation checks.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728484#Comment_3728484
To be very clear, consultants can and do share thoughts on whether or not future changes would be healthy for the game or encourage unfun gameplay. This program in no way is designed to make the game more sweaty or competitive. We receive a wide variety of feedback from it, from balance to fun to how something feels and beyond.
I'm worried about what the consultants define as "encourage unfun gameplay". There are so many people on these forums, that label and demonize pretty much every killer strategy (i.e. camping, tunneling, slugging) as "unfun gameplay" for survivors.
…..but when these same people are asked about what things survivors do, that counts as "unfun gameplay" for the killer, we get told that pretty much everything survivors can do is fine and acceptable. We even have people defending bully squads, because "at least they aren't doing generators". You can even see this in the way certain game terms are defined, where killer strategies like camping and tunneling are super easy for killers to achieve in any game….. but gen rushing is a hyper specific scenario that requires certain perks and certain addons.
I don't understand how BHVR finds enough people, that are truly arguing on behalf of the killer role, that also aren't over exaggerating the game problems. I've been on these forums for a while, and it seems like the majority of the people truly arguing for the killer role, go completely overboard and get permanently banned.
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3727932#Comment_3727932
I don’t think this program is for us mortals. Only big content creators.
At least that’s what I am assuming, would be cool to get actual information about this program when it does influence the balance and development
Some of the streamers make $$$$$$ off of clickbait videos, and are therefore some of the most biased people in the community, because they literally get $$$$$ from this game.
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@SunaIIanu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726425#Comment_3726425
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/42WT63DJ10FX/image.png
They did a few months ago, and the difference ist not that big (excluding high mmr 4man SWFs)
The stats show that solo q and SWF are extremely close, because the vast vast majority of SWFs are 2-SWF and 3-SWF at average MMR. This means that most of the people in SWFs are actually extremely close to solo q for survival rates.
Many people forget that 2-SWFs without voice comms are still considered playing in a SWF……
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@Pat00tSack said:
Yikes, I thought the aim snapping around corners was supposed to be mainly for visual purposes.
Aim dressing is supposed to be for visual purposes, but it steals hits from the killer, because it does stuff to the killer, BEFORE it checks for hit validation.
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@ASurvkillivorer said:
The craziest thing is. THIS isn't the short lunge bug. We now have TWO different problems. 3 if you count aim dressing as a whole. SInce playing DBD from the very start I never understood what the point of it was. The only time I ever noticed aim dressing is when I would swing at a survivor near me and I would feel the camera PULL in a different direction and make me miss. Thats it.
So now we have the original aim dressing problem which has been in the game since launch
Short lunge.
Weird pallet auto aim thing.
Now that I have been paying very close attention. The short lunge bug seems worse too. I am seeing killers who seem very good make swings that are just ike…what are you thinking? Although HAD they lunged it would've been a perfect hit. So this makes perfect sense to me. That engine update screwed up the game.
The weird pallet auto aim thing can happen because the proximity checks for forced short lunges or camera yanks, doesn't care if there is an object between the killer and survivor.
Sometimes the autoaim into pallet is because the killer was expecting to be able to lunge around a pallet (because lunges have zero collision with objects), and then when the forced short M1 attack happens, the killer immediately hits the object they were trying to lunge around.
….But sometimes it's just a camera yank because the game made a proximity check and decided the killer was "close enough" to the survivor to yank the camera.
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@musicallyblind said:
Is that true? Why am i even playing this game they genuinely dont care about us or their game only money. i will never buy a dlc from them ever again
@Coffeecrashing said:
Killers are forbidden to lunge if they are too close to a survivor. It doesn't matter if a killer is holding a direction and the M1 button at the same time, because the game will force a short M1 tap attack if the killer tries to attack while right next to a survivor.
I'd even claim that many of the aim dressing complaints involve this short M1 tap bug, because if a killer is expecting to be able to do a full lunge attack, and they purposely turn their camera toward an object because lunges have zero object collision (and therefore they are expecting to be able to curve around objects with their lunge), that when the killer is forced into a short M1 tap attack, they can easily hit an object next to them and think the problem was aim dressing.
BHVR should also look into the possibility that the game might be forcing short M1 tap attacks, even though the survivor might be out of range by the time the hit validation snapshots are taken, which means that the forced short M1 tap attack might be stealing a hit, because the killer could have reached the survivor if they were allowed to lunge attack.
It's completely true. Look at the above page. May 8th 2023!!! That's literally over one full year, literally over 12 full months…. and BHVR STILL refuses to comment!!!!!!!!
It's like DBD's biggest secret, that isn't allowed to be confirmed, so that survivors can continue believing they "outplayed" the killer, when in reality the killer had a hit stolen by a bug.
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It's literally been 12 months since I made a bug report about the forced short M1 attack bug, that can steal hits from the killer, and the bug report is STILL "under review"…… How many months does it take for BHVR to make a comment on this???? Is anyone from BHVR going to confirm this bug is real, or are they purposely ignoring the bug report because they want this to be a secret?
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3724508#Comment_3724508
I guarantee I deal with just as much swf as you do I just enjoy sweating for a W and not everyone enjoys that which is why I dabble in the ladder also aside from regular games , but that's besides the point we're talking about the flashbang background player combo , it's not in every single game you play you're lying if you act like it is, flashbang has always blinded even when facing walls the firecrackers work the same in fact that's why even as a survivor if you're anywhere near a teammate dropping one it doesn't matter if you're not looking at it you'll get Blinded in that radius I'm not defending it either like I said earlier it needs some sort of solution to that combo,
I'm fairly sure the amount of complaining about background player, has skyrocketed through the roof, ever since the clipping bug started happening. BHVR should be fixing this bug.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3724484#Comment_3724484
Looking at the wall never worked for a flashbang anyway because it's radius not visual like the flashlight, I personally believe you should be exhausted while holding the flashbang due to being able to have it repeatedly and background player almost forcing you to have lightborn in those situations but then you have to ask yourself is it really worth it to bring lightborn for the small chance of them having that? I personally find enjoyment from beating them without it and out witting them at their own game of trying to always be around for the save, I'm not gonna sit here and pretend like they never get the save but I like the challenge and the adrenaline rush from both sides making big plays in crucial moments
Flashbang shouldn't have the double radius feature it currently has. There shouldn't be an inner radius, where it doesn't matter which direction the killer is facing. If a killer is directly next to and is facing a wall, that should 100% be good enough to protect them from flashlights and flashbangs.
I also don't understand this "small chance" statement. There are SO MANY people in my games that do this. I really don't know what other people's games look like, but my games are very often dealing with coordinated SWFs that are very obviously using voice comms to coordinate stuff.
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@ChaosWam said:
I know most will say otherwise but this is why I've started running lightborn once background player became popular with flashbangs.
The 'just pick up at walls' crowd doesn't know the struggle of doing so and still getting denied because the flashbang radius is either bugged or intentionally messed up enough to get blinds at walls. I'd rather play a match risking it with just 3 perks getting value than deal with it at this point.
"Just pick up at walls" is currently bugged, because survivors can clip through the killer, and drop the flashbang while overlapping with the killer, which works even if the killer is facing a wall.
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@Malkhrim said:
I believe the purple sabo toolbox is not getting buffed and will still be the fastest for sabotaging, am I right? If that's the case, this won't increase the potential strenght for sabotaging, but will make good sabotaging more common, since you won't need a very rare toolbox to sabotage fast anymore. I don't think this is bad on its own, but the current state of hook spawns may make it awful from time to time. Just today I had a match in Ormond were there were only TWO hooks on one side of the map, and they were obviously pretty far away from one another. This is getting extremely common now: the distance between hooks is bigger than ever and sometimes there is only one hook in a huge area and, when it's gone, it gets impossible to hook people who get downed there. Survivor hook offerings still exist, and SWFs can bring multiple of them, which is kinda concerning, but it will certainly still be rare after the update.
Either way, if the base hook spread gets fixed, the new sabo speeds should probably be fine, or maybe they can be toned down a little bit in a near future. The sabo speeds themselves aren't a problem, the current hook spawns can be.
Alex toolbox with sabotage speed addons, will allow survivors to take a hit under a hook, then sabotage a hook AND move out of the way, before the killer can hit them a 2nd time.
That is totally a massive buff for sabotaging. And if a survivor sabotages a hook directly in front of a killer, there is usually a 0% chance the killer can carry the survivor to a different hook, because the killer already wasted time carrying a survivor all the way to a hook.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3723225#Comment_3723225
there is no timing. you get hit, sabo and mash E. even current dead hard can do this but it is limited two times per use. alex toolbox has limited charges. I don't think you'll see sabo. only 0 hook challenge swf use this.
I don't care if dead hard can do this. That is an extra perk, that is only situationally active. Alex toolbox + speed addons is active 100% of the game, and doesn't require any perks. And it doesn't matter if the toolbox has limited charges, because it can still sabo multiple hooks without any sort of recharging.
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Distortion should be nerfed, because some survivors use it to excessively hide from the killer, which causes many games where the other survivors have a reduced chance of winning.
Remember that some killer perks get nerfed because of the way that SOME killers use them. For example, some killers aren't stacking regression perks, but the regression perks are getting nerfed because SOME killers are stacking 3 or 4 of them together. Likewise, Distortion should be nerfed because of the ways that SOME survivors use it.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3722984#Comment_3722984
this is already possible with dead hard. it used to be default sabo back when dead hard was an iframe attack. Now dead hard got nerfed, so they just added it back in a similar form. Back when dead hard was omnipresent in every single match, sabo still wasn't use and alex toolbox hasn't changed since then.
Dead hard is only situationally active, and it requires a fair amount of timing. Alex toolbox +sabo speed addons, has zero timing, and zero perk requirements.
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The forced short M1 attack bug, that can steal hits from the killer, is very real, and BHVR still refuses to comment on it.
My current theory is the game makes proximity checks on the killer's client, and uses that to determine if a lunge should be forcibly changed to a short M1 attack, after that, the game makes a hit validation check on the server side to see if there is a hit. There means that when we have any sort of lag or latency issues, it's more likely that the game steals hits from the killer.
And this game seems to have be having issues since the upgrade to the new system.
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I would much rather chaos shuffle be permanent, than 2v8, so if we can only have one new permanent game mode, please let it be this.
Chaos shuffle still feels like DBD, except people aren’t cramming slowdown perks and second chance perks into their builds. My only suggestion is to remove No mither from the rotation (or rework the perk completely).
2v8 just seems like a novelty. Pretty much none of the existing loops in this game, would properly work with 2 killers that are trying to flank a survivor from opposite sides. So it just requires way more coordination than live DBD (needs agressive body blocks and group healing), which is great for SWFs, but really bad for Solo q.
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@Sarrif said:
I get it, you just downed a survivor and want to hook them. But also, you can't complain about this if you want gens to slow down. Survivors currently have one objective and that's to do generators and not much else. If you want survivors to do something other than gens then it has to be worthwhile for survivors to do since they aren't doing the one thing they HAVE to do then it has to be rewarding.
In short, I'm genuinely curious. What would you rather have? Fast gens or sabotaging hooks being actually useful?
I'd rather survivors repair generators, than use the overpowered sabotage speeds in the PTB.
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@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3721936#Comment_3721936
May you explain how he feels weak? I’m curious because I think he is still strong and still has some good add-ons to use.
A killer's anti-loop power can be measured by how many loops their power can get a hit, and how many loops their power can't get a hit.
Blight's speed addons (before the nerfs), and his ability to object slide (before the nerfs), and his newer iri addons (before the new nerfs), greatly increased the number of loops he can get a hit at. Without these things, there are just so many more loops he's stuck being an M1 killer.
To oversimply things. Blight's M2 power at a loop is a math puzzle, where Blight tries to traverse the loop faster than the survivor. But with all these nerfs, there are many more loops where Blight can't M2 traverse faster than the survivor (and this is true even if Blight plays 100% perfectly).
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Slugging for the 4k is the best way to use the new base kit mori. BHVR is literally giving killers a new reason to slug for the 4k.
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Does this mean all killers should always try to slug for the 4k, so they can use the new Mori mechanic? Because if that last survivor escapes through the hatch or gates, then the killer doesn’t get their free mori?????
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717871#Comment_3717871
But still gameplay against twins is miserable.
Twins are so unenjoyable to play, that the Twins main streamers don’t want to play them anymore. I remember a time, where a giant chunk of their streaming content involved back to back Twins games.
…but now it looks like playing as Twins is so very unenjoyable, that they are trying really hard to do everything except play as Twins.
And who can blame them? They were promised a Twins rework to make the killer feels less frustrating on both sides, and the rework was an absolute disaster that got scrapped….. but at least Victor hostages were still gone…… And then BHVR brought back Victor hostages and made them worse. BHVR has completely and utterly failed the Twins players.
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This is Q&A Accepted????
Can we please get an answer that’s better than “we think the DC penalties are a good enough solution”?
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718091#Comment_3718091
I understand what you’re saying, but in terms of numbers regardless of what’s going on in game, when people are queuing up(it does not matter if they just logged on or just got out of a match, or how many times a killer/survivor got in lobby to go again or what order they exit match) roughly 80 out 100 people need to be queuing up as survivor and 20 out of 100 people as killer. It’s really that simple.
You absolutely 100% need to consider the ratio of players in active games.
In other words, if we take all the players logged into DBD right now, more than 20% of them need to play the killer role.
Anyways, I’m done here. I officially stopped caring.
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718018#Comment_3718018
There is only 1 killer spot to fill, so the algorithm is going to prioritize a survivor queuing up to fill spots probably based off wait time and how many slots in a lobby need to be filled and if there are a lot of people on mmr. If not less mmr based. Region. It’s going to run a programming language to meet 4v1 requirements to quickly fill slots based off conditional triggers to action . Programming language for that does not care if a killer is currently in match with 4 or 2 survivors left bc outside of that it’s looking for not in lobby which is 4/1 or 80/20. Idk if I’m making sense.
Your logic is incorrect. It doesn’t matter if a game requires 1 killer and 4 survivors to start, because the 4 survivors aren’t locked into that game for its entire duration.
Someone else might be better at explaining this to you. I just ran out of different ways to explain this. -
@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717951#Comment_3717951
If you have 60% of the player base playing survivor, and 40% playing killer. Whose queuing time is going up? Again, I’m not trying to be funny but there’s only 5 spots per match making and the “match” won’t start unless the conditions of 4 survivors and 1 killer is met. It doesn’t matter who got out of what match when as long as there is 80/20 condition or 4/1. If the player base is shifting too heavily to one side or the other, what do you think a developer reaction will be? Look at it as if you were analyzing data. I’m sure if the percent is off little from 80/20 give or take either side not much of a concern, but if it’s off by a lot, big concern bc that is very telling.
It absolutely matters if survivors leave a game early.
If a current game only has 2 alive survivors in it, and the other 2 survivors have already queued up for a new game, then the ratio for the current game is 1 killer and 2 survivors.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717951#Comment_3717951
we are talking about people playing. Not people giving up
Many games involve at least one survivor dying before the game is over, even if that survivor never gave up.
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717906#Comment_3717906
Yes, absolutely there are people who enjoy playing both sides. It will never be cut and dry, to that I agree. It's still ideal to have at any given time 80% playing survivor, and 20% playing killer.
There needs to be a lot more than 20% playing killer, because many survivors leave the game when they die, and queue up for a new game, even though the current game is still happening.
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@Mentally_Mechanical said:
So, this was mainly due to finally getting to play the game, and getting my first match against a Twins post-buff. I love playing Twins, but against them was miserable, and I think there's one reason why: Victor can just run up next to you and charge a point blank pounce that's all but guaranteed to hit, and that's why I believe they're not fun to verse.
What I think could help alleviate that on the survivor side is if Victor could be kicked while charging a pounce, so can't just simply run up and point blank one. That means he could be more of a skill shot, and have more counterplay than just hoping he misses.
That would make Victor unable to hit a survivor if they decide to run around a small loop over and over, because Victor would literally not be able to place themselves far away from the survivor, but still have line of sight of the survivor when the pounce is fully charged.
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@TheLastTreedad said:
Why would they nerf gen rushing. When it's the survivors doing gens is the only goal. Just like tunneling there's only so much you could do
Repair stacking needs to be nerfed, especially when done with a commodious toolbox. There is such a huge difference between the value survivors can get with a regular toolbox, and the value they can get by stacking a bunch of repair addons/perks with a toolbox. That is what needs to be nerfed.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
i think they could honestly keep 50% infection if hindered is 4%. to me, wesker looks nerfed to the ground for the top 0.1% of survivors.
Wesker got nerfed to the ground because of complaints, and most of those complaints did not come from the top 0.1% of survivors. Part of BHVR's current balancing strategy, is to just buff or nerf things based off of popular complaints.
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@ArkInk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715953#Comment_3715953
Was this before MMR? Most survivor matches that weren't SWF had a couple inexperienced players in them.
Still, that was a wild time for the game.
It was before MMR, and back then, I could get decent win streaks on every killer in the game, because the matchmaking was just that bad back then. It didn't matter how much broken stuff the survivor side had back then, because matchmaking would constantly throw me into matches with survivors that were really bad at the game.
Back then, we could also see our matchmaking "MMR". The biggest problem with our current MMR system is the fact that no one is allowed to see their MMR, even though the game literally had that for years, and there were never any real issues about people seeing their "MMR" back then.
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@Venusa said:
I don't think most people realize that BHVR's intention is to buff Killers basekit and make them more viable without depending on certain perks.
The maps are smaller than ever, loops are weaker than ever, Killers are stronger than ever, Survivor perks are weaker than ever… but somehow people still don't grasp the bigger picture and the only thing they see is "regression perks are slightly nerfed, it's over!"…
Playing Survivor has become a nightmare with most Killers just over-winning most of their games. The sense of progression is lost and trying to progress the game against perks like Pain Res + Pop + DMS + Grim Embrace is futile.
At this point it feels like you're going against Killer's gen perks and not the individual Killer. The Killer doesn't matter. Killer's skill or power doesn't matter. It's just about which perks they have.
I welcome these changes and think that they're healthy for the game and majority of the player base. I know there's the whole "but in high-MMR… but D tier Killers…" arguments but honestly I'm so tired of all these tiers and over-competitiveness sucking the fun out of this game.
Some people forget that both sides need to feel a sense of progression and fun for this game to function.
So it's interesting that people are surprised about the slight regression nerfs. It was obviously on its way.
Whenever someone tells me "killers are stronger than ever", I remember back when the average red rank kill rate was 68.19%.
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3714796#Comment_3714796
That puts the decision on the player whether they want to use the toolbox for sabo'ing or repairing since they can't do both unless they devote time into Built to Last. Currently only Alex's Toolbox was the choice for sabo and Commodius was for repair. Now it looks like the reliance for Alex's won't be so strong since it's a purple toolbox. Also since add-ons are getting buffed they also have to decide which addons to gear for.
Toolboxes have needed a complete pass for a while. Addon/perk stacking, especially on commodious, is way too much.
It’s completely reasonable to ask for BHVR to look at toolbox repair value, if they were already in the process of evaluating them all for sabo value.
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Is it nighttime in that picture? Did they change the map from daytime to nighttime?
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Are the toolboxes themselves getting looked into, like medkits were looked into?
For example, the value difference of a regular toolbox, and a commodious toolbox is way too high, especially when survivors are stacking additional things on top of it like Built To Last. There is also an issue where toolboxes giving increased skill check chances, gives too much value to perks like Hyperfocus, especially when it’s used on a toolbox with lots of charges, like the commodious toolbox.
In order words, if toolboxes are going to be buffed to be more sabo oriented, then it’s ok for them to get nerfs at repair speed stacking, right?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3714364#Comment_3714364
That does seem likely, however, this issue has been in the game for many many years.
At least since 2018, when I started playing. I think it's much more likely that it's something to do with aim dressing's interaction with the Dedicated Servers.
If the aim dressing was made for P2P, and then got ported over to DS, it would make sense why it's been significantly worse
I’ve seen laggy PTBs, where a hit was stolen from me at least once per game, and when I watched streamers it was happening to them too. And I don’t think it was an input loss issue, because everything still looked smoothly animated.
And sometimes the stolen hit is super obvious. I’m talking about the killer and survivor not being near any objects, and both are just moving forward in a straight line, and the killer tries to lunge, and ends up whiffing a forced short M1 attack that doesn’t reach the survivor.
In any event, I’m 100% certain the issue is procuring because the proximity checks used to force a short M1 attack, are completely separate from the hit validation checks.
The big question is whether or not BHVR purposely refuses to comment on this, is because they don’t want more people to complain about it, even though they know it’s 100% unfair for killers to have hits stolen by a mechanic that like 99% of the player base doesn’t even know exists??? It’s literally been a full year, a full 12 months, and still no comments from BHVR.
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@Reinami said:
Its definitely gotten more pronounced. I think it is due to the rubberbanding issue going on right now. Sometimes i'll lunge at someone, and then i rubberband right back to where i was, but then my lunge doesn't happen. Similar thing is happening on survivor side where i'll just randomly see the killer "pop" back a bit. Had a situation where i got hit after vaulting because i rubberbanded back before i vaulted.
Things are a bit weird right now, so i'd say probably wait until those issues are fixed and see if it clears it up a bit more.
My current theory is that the proximity checks, that the game uses to determine if the killer should be forbidden to lunge, is done on the killer side instead of the server side.
This means that when the game has issues like latency or rubberbanding, it’s more likely that the game will forbid the killer from lunging, even though the killer is too far away to hit the survivor with a short M1 attack.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3714175#Comment_3714175
Which is the correct counterplay... So what exactly is your point?
You said “Maybe this incentives you to not hit healthy survivors with Pounce but m1 them and that's the correct way to play from that perspective?”
How does that incentive work, when it often doesn’t matter if Victor is trying to chase a healthy or injured survivor?
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3714099#Comment_3714099
Maybe this incentives you to not hit healthy survivors with Pounce but m1 them and that's the correct way to play from that perspective?
As for the first part you mean compared to the former 6 seconds? I think those 4 extra seconds get fully out weight by the other buffs and qol changes twins got...
Many survivors will purposely bodyblock for injured teammates, because they want every Victor hit to land on a healthy survivor, so they can hold Victor's power hostage. So it often doesn't matter if Victor is chasing a healthy or injured survivor.
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@Skillfulstone said:
As annoying as it can be to be forced to play M1 for long stretches of time (at mid-high level, newcomers/inexperienced Survivors get rid of Victor asap) if a Survivor decides to keep Victor for 30 seconds then even if you are in no position to down that Survivor (due to distance and/or tile strength) then that's a Survivor that can't do anything to progress the game and gives info if he goes by other Survivors.
The PTB Twins was beyond busted and couldn't go live but at least we got a couple QOL updates, and who knows, maybe someday the Twins will get a true overhaul.
I literally don’t care if survivors can’t repair generators while they are holding Victor hostage. I never said this was about win rates, or about effective strategies for winning games.
I literally said this entire thing is about how awful it feels to play Twins, when survivors are holding Victor’s power hostage for large portions of the game.
In fact, what we should be arguing is that when survivors are purposely holding Victor hostage far away from Twins, specifically when they aren’t being chased, they are literally doing it to bully the killer, because the “more efficient” gameplay would be to crush Victor so they can repair generators instead. -
@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3713776#Comment_3713776
What else are they supposed to do? If they get rid of him immediately he will be back like 15 seconds later and down them pretty quickly... The issue is not only the hostage taking of Victor but that the counterplay against twins is rather team based and not necessarily 1v1 chase interaction...
On the PTB, it took a bit over 20 seconds for Twins to be able to control Victor again, AND we are supposed to add whatever seconds it takes for Victor to travel back to that survivor, on top of that 20 seconds.
And Victor does have solo based counter play. It’s just not as easy as “hold Victor hostage”. There are still many tiles where Victor literally can’t get a hit if the survivors play the tile correctly. And there is still the counter play that if Victor is too far away from Charlotte, then the survivor can just jump into a locker, because Victor can only hold a locker for 10 seconds.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3713749#Comment_3713749
But where is the issue with that? You can always recall him after x amount of time? So everything beyond that is your choice as the killer to keep Victor with that survivor for even longer?
And bodyblocking is good counterplay to avoid a down.. I really don't see how that is something to do only to make you feel miserable... And even if that was the intention that would be completely fine as long as it is also a reasonable play...
The issue is that for a large portion of the game, EVERY SINGLE TIME I want to use Victor, someone ends up taking Victor hostage. I can't believe that some people are ok with Victor's power being held hostage for 40+ seconds, 5 times in a row. How on earth is that acceptable game design?
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@alpha5 said:
Declaring ill intentions on survivors the one time they cooperate outside busted stuff like FTP+BU, BGP+Flashies, SWF Sabo, DS+OTR/BT bodyblocks when the alternative is getting slugged and snowballed on against probably the best killer for this playstyle borders on misanthropy. Even more so when it might be the strongest strategy. I enjoy negativity as much as the next guy playing this game but in Twins' case with bodyblocking against Victor and holding on to him Coffeecrashing's conclusion are unreasonable.
I very often got matched with survivors that would purposely try to hold Victor hostage as long as possible.
This isn’t a scenario of “I’m chasing a survivor, and they are holding Victor hostage while I’m chasing them”. This is SWFs that are literally coordinating with each other to hold Victor hostage as long as possible. This is survivors purposely holding onto Victor even when they are far away from the killer, and aren’t being chased. This is survivors purposely bodyblocking for injured survivors, because they want every Victor hit to land on a healthy survivor so they can hold Victor hostage.
And just so we’re all on the same page, I never said every survivor does this, and I never said every survivor wants to do this. What I am saying is this happened often enough that I stopped playing Twins. Yes, there are A LOT of survivors that do want to make the killer miserable, and will prioritize that over trying to win the game.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3713388#Comment_3713388
For the hit on endurance, there are basically two ways this can go, either you get stuck on the survivor or you bounce off of them... Which is worse? Being not kick able after the endurance hit would make the status effect worthless so it is one of the two...
I would not call the current changes a rework... It is not more than quality of life changes.
As for the changes... We have faster transition, faster unbinding of Victor, reduced charge time, being able to recall Victor whenever you want... So he is not in the middle of nowhere and you don't need to walk all that distance back. And as far as the nerf goes we have increased return time for Victor from 6 to 10 seconds... Where did the hostage taking time got changed from before? Because as far as I can see that from the 7.7.0 patchnotes the recall time did not get changed? Other than the short period of time where it was ridiculously low...
None of the quality of life improvements are worth the extra hostage time.
The full power hostage time ends when Twins can control Victor again. That includes the time it takes to regrow Victor, which was increased during the PTB (to balance the faster recall time), and is still happening now (even though the faster recall time was completely reverted). And honestly, I'd rather Victor just instantly die on a successful endurance hit, so we can get back to Charlotte quicker. Decent survivors will always successfully kick Victor on a successful endurance hit, so it would actually be a quality of life improvement for Victor to instantly die on a successful endurance hit.
I don't think people understand how many games I've been in, where survivors just hold Victor hostage, and teammates will bodyblock for that survivor, to maximize the amount of time Victor is held hostage. And the survivor with Victor will absolutely just run across the map, far away from any unrepaired generators, and hold onto Victor even if they aren't being chased, because their goal is to make the killer miserable. And if Victor tries to chase an injured survivor, then an uninjured survivor will try to bodyblock Victor, because they want to hold Victor hostage. The primary goal of these survivors is to try to make the killer as miserable as possible, by seeing how much time they can hold Victor hostage.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3713293#Comment_3713293
Thats very questionable xD
The number 1 reason why Twins were unfun to play, was the Victor hostages, which are objectively longer now.
And if Victor is vulnerable after a successful endurance hit, then the DS buff made things much worse for Twins, because it encourages survivors to combo it with endurance perks like OTR. Endurance hurts Twins more than most other killers, because when Victor bounces off of endurance, Twins is stuck watching Victor try to recover, then get kicked, then die, then switch back to Charlotte, then wait for Charlotte is be able to move again. It’s a clunky process that makes Twins unfun to play.
The quality of life for Twins is now so horribly low, that I won’t be playing them anymore. This entire rework was a massive failure, and the entire thing should be reverted.
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Twins are officially worse off now, than they were before the rework, because survivors can hold their power hostage for even longer now.
Twins would literally be better off if the entire rework was fully reverted.